Please create an account to participate in the Slashdot moderation system


Forgot your password?
Star Wars Prequels Media Movies

Star Wars II: Return of the Name 947

Mutant was among the onslaught of readers who submitted that the final name has been chosen for Star Wars Episode II. It is... Attack of the Clones. Let the sarcasm commence. I'll pass judgement after I see it.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Star Wars II: Return of the Name

Comments Filter:
  • Yes, it's paint by numbers. Yes, the characters are predictable. Yes, there are clear good guys and bad guys (save Vader, who goes from good guy to bad guy and is then redeemed). Yes, there are plush toys in staring roles. And you know what? That's exactly why people like it so much!

    Was The Odyssey deep? Of course not. It was half blood and gore and half hot, sexy sea nymphs. Was Beowulf deep? Of course not, it was a super-human hero killing evil critters left and right.

    There are, in Western culture at least, certain common images and settings that we have come to expect. They're an unwritten cultural and artistic language. "White" is the good guy, "Black" is the bad guy. Good guys have blond hair, bad guys have deep voices. The good guy doesn't kill the bad guy when he's down. Forests are places of mysticism. In American culture, the freedom-loving underdog rebels are always the good guys over the evil imperial military hegemony. (See also: American Revolution. Why do you think all Imperial officers have British accents?)

    Star Wars very deliberately and openly plays into every single one of those. It is the "classic" and "quintessential" epic good vs. evil saga, because it pulls in every one of the things that we have come to expect in good vs. evil sagas over the past 2500 years. All good classics have things that you can anchor yourself on and use as a springboard into the plot. If Luke wasn't a goody two-shoes, no one would have liked him. If Han wasn't a "lovable rogue" but was really a nasty guy through and through, everyone would have hated him and Leah hooking up.

    We're expecting too much from a saga that was intended not to break new plot ground, but to be a damn fun watch. And it was, because we like seeing the underdog good guys win by being good guys and the evil controlling imperial bad guys go down because they're the bad guys. Accept Star Wars for what it is: A hot damn fun adventure story in the style of classic adventure stories throughout the ages.

    Do that, and you can even live with the Ewoks and Jar Jar. (I happen to like the Ewoks, they're cute!)

  • The trouble with what's happening to Star Wars is this: Star Wars is meant to be space opera.

    Space opera isn't necessarily kid fare. It needs to be done as if it is a _masterpiece_. Yes, everything is overblown and exaggerated- that's the point. But it can't be the slightest bit tongue-in-cheek- and the merchandising machine increasingly makes it tough to do that.

    "Defeats the big evil villain who turns out to be his father, and, dying, reforms and looks upon his son with his own eyes" is an opera.

    "Wins the big race" is an Elvis movie (and a video game).

    Lucas has the _chance_ at great space opera, still. To show the corruption of Anakin is potentially great space opera. But there is definitely a risk that he'll completely blow it- too many computerized extras, too many merchandising tie-ins affecting the scanty plot of the movies, which won't stand much of that treatment. Space opera plot is _cheesey_. Hijack a bit of it for use as a video game or something, and you risk losing all of it by losing the thread and not being able to pick it up again.

    At least it ought to wind up an absolutely great issue of 'Cinefex' ;)

  • This proves it: Lucas is a fan of the Jim Rome Show.

    Rejected titles for Episode 2:

    • Star Wars Episode II: Jar Jar Gets Lucky
    • Star Wars Episode II: Attack Of The Stem Cells
    • Star Wars Episode II: We Promise This One Won't Suck
    • Star Wars Episode II: Attack Of The Killer Tomatoes VI
    • Star Wars Episode II: Electric Boogaloo

    Lucas hopes the 2nd film will make people forget the recent study alleging that the creator of Star Wars is a pedophile. []

  • Jar Jar and friends
  • by CAIMLAS ( 41445 ) on Wednesday August 08, 2001 @02:07PM (#2119243) Homepage
    My parents saw Star Wars and it's 2 sequels when they came out in the theatre. They loved them - great story, great characters, great effects, excellent soundtrack. They were well staged, and the people in the theatre - even in "Star Wars" were going crazy over the film. Being that I'm nearly 20 myself, and these are my parents we're talking about, logic would dictate that my parents were at least 18 or so themselves. They were 24 and 25, respectively.

    Now, many people are ranting about how "Attack of the Clones" is a retarded movie title. I'd have to agree. Granted, I'm one of those 'saw it when I was young, fell in love with it, altered reality,' types. My parents, on the other hand, are not.

    My parents recently saw Episode I. They were appauled at the horrid commericialization of the franchise and the apparent lack of effort that went into the actual film, the story, and the plot. Granted, Luca always triedmake money, but Star Wars was art when Lucas started making it. He said so himself - his opt-outs about how it's simply a childrens film and such are just that - opt outs. I mean, for crying out loud, Episode I didn't even have new music composed for it to fit the film - it simply had a compiled version done by someone else, so they could slap John William's name on it. They spent all their budget on special effects. Bastards.

  • Hasn't that one been rumored for years? What's so bad about that title. Attack of the 50 kay clones. Great.
  • Just remember.... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by mattsking ( 472366 )
    Is Georgie boy going a wee bit nuts again? Anyone remember the Battlestar Galactica episode? Probably not. If you view ANH as it was intended, as a love letter to Akira Korosawa, (Watch the Hidden Fortress.) then you will see the many parallels between the two films, (and Willow too for that matter.)This includes characters and scenes. As to the naming thing, just rememeber that if you go by statements in ANH, (e.g., "General Kenobi, hero of the Clone Wars",) you will see the next two movies are the clone wars period. The second movie is the beginning, the third the end of the wars and the fall of the Jedi. Aside from that, who cares about the title when there are supposed to be scenes of up to 30-40 Jedi fighting? Fnord
  • by Gona 1977 ( 512905 ) on Tuesday August 07, 2001 @03:57AM (#2125241)

    I have been reading Slashdot for several years. I created an account just to post this. And here is what I have to say:

    This is getting silly. Half of the comments here seem to be lamenting the fact that the prequel trilogy appears to be geared towards children. Well, I've got news for you: the same applies to the original trilogy as well. You just don't realize it because you were so young when the movies first came out.

    Do you know why almost everybody here hates the Ewoks in ROTJ? Because they make you feel insecure. You're afraid that people will laugh at you for watching a children's movie with talking teddy-bears in it. And they will. You should just shrug it off, but you can't because of your low self-esteem. And, for some reason, you can't realize that the average Joe sees all Star Wars movies as children's movies, regardless of whether they have Ewoks or Jar-Jar in them or not.

    The Jargon File [] has a section called "A Portrait of J. Random Hacker []". I'm sure most of you here have read it. The section has a list of "Things Hackers Detest and Avoid", and here is how it begins:

    "IBM mainframes. All the works of Microsoft. Smurfs, Ewoks, and other forms of offensive cuteness."

    "Offensive cuteness" seems to rank very high on the list, right after Microsoft. Why is this? I believe that the reason is the same as stated above: you fear that being associated with any sort of "cuteness" (such as the Ewoks in ROTJ) will make you look ridiculous and childish in the eyes of others. And a lot of people seem to think that enjoying "dark" movies such as The Empire Strikes Back or The Matrix will somehow help you gain acceptance and credibility.

    Sorry to rain on your parade, but it doesn't work that way. Nobody cares if you prefer The Empire Strikes Back to Return of the Jedi, or The Matrix to The Phantom Menace, or Babylon 5 to Star Trek. Again, to the proverbial average Joe, it's just "stupid sci-fi for geeks and nerds". That's what people think.

    And here's another explanation: many of you are depressed and therefore can't stand the thought of "offensive cuteness" such as talking teddy bears or Jar Jar. You'd rather wear all black, watch splatter movies and listen to German industrial rock while fantasizing about killing your classmates or coworkers. Sorry about being a bit over the top, but this is how "regular people" see you. They don't see you as intelligent persons who appreciate a good sci-fi movie. Instead, they see you as sad computer geeks.

    Somebody here wrote something along the lines of "well, Star Wars sucks, but fortunately we'll still have The Matrix and Lord of the Rings".

    Huh? Are sci-fi and fantasy movies all you have? If you get mad because the title of the new Star Wars movie did not live up to your expectations, I think you should seriously re-examine the priorities in your life.

    • Thank you-- you hit the nail on the head. Serious geeks spend a lot of time trying to be geeks (wearing black, having the best techno-toys, seeing the right movies, glowering over their monitors at happy co-workers). But this just substitutes one social ladder for another.

      It is lame to bash or even look down on other geeks because you think their tastes aren't hardcore enough-- isn't it enough that half the world already looks down on us? Do we need to add to the persecution?


  • by Mtgman ( 195502 ) on Tuesday August 07, 2001 @02:18AM (#2130728)
    Beware all ye who would criticize the genius of Lucas, for is it not written in the revised, updated and George (dubya) Bush approved version of The Constitution of the United States of the Multinational Corporations (now available as an Adobe(R)(TM)(C)All Rights Reserved E-book for $19.99 per view, order today! Operators are standing by!) In article I section 1 that George Lucas is hereby declared the greatest storyteller of all time and all law abiding and Bill Gates fearing citizens are required to pay homage to him by seeing any and all movies with the name Star Wars multiple times and by further paying homage by standing in ridiculously long lines at the local Wal-Mart to purchase dozens of non-biodegradable plastic toys for the betterment of our young(isn't it grand of us to think of the children?).

    Yea and those who dare not to venerate the name of Lucas and pay the required homage shall be stricken from the rolls of the nation. They will be outcasts in their own land of birth. Denied bland conversation with their fellow citizens about the masterworks of Lucas, they will wallow in their anguish. They shall be stricken from the lists of people to be protected in time of war and their names will be added to the lists of those who will not recieve the bounty of this great land in the form of Blue Light specials and the occasional Buy one Get one FREE sales at the local Piggly Wiggly. They shall be stricken from the rolls of every good and beneficient policy this great conglomerate bestows upon it's consumers. Moreover their name shall be dupliated in all databases related to taxation and if they ever contest this clause, they are subject to auditing by the BSA, RIAA, MPAA and Rectal-Probers-R-Us.

    So let it be written(in tiny print behind an encryption scheme which may not be broken under article two of this constitution, formerly known as the DMCA) so let it be done.

    Now if you missed this update to the supreme law of our land, that isn't my fault. I suggest you rush right out to your computer and fully enable all the update packages you can and register any and all software you have. I got this preview of our new constitution as a bonus when I downloaded the latest version of Minsweeper, the official game of the land. Baseball isn't bringing in enough money it seems.

  • by Overt Coward ( 19347 ) on Tuesday August 07, 2001 @11:16AM (#2151272) Homepage
    Attack Of The Clones
    (To the tune of "Send In The Clowns")

    Isn't it rich?

    We're a matched pair.
    Waving our lightsabers
    Around in the air.
    Attack of the clones.

    Lucas gone mad
    We've all been had
    After the first one was so
    Incredibly bad.
    Attack of the clones?
    Does he think that we're drones?

    Just when I'd stopped
    Trashing Jar-Jar
    Lucas is going
    Even further afar.
    Making a loser again
    With his usual flair
    Expecting big lines...
    They'll probably be there.

    Oh, what a farce.
    Our fault, we hear.
    We're supposed to like what he shows
    Year after year.
    And where are the clones?
    ("Attack of the Clones"???)
    It's too late, they're here.

    Isn't it bad?
    Isn't it dull?
    And the worst part of all is that
    The theater'll be full.
    And so it's the clones...
    "Attack of the Clones"
    Will open next year.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 06, 2001 @09:38PM (#2165602)
    I'll pass judgement after I see it.

    This will be a first.

  • by MOMOCROME ( 207697 ) <> on Monday August 06, 2001 @09:39PM (#2165608)
    omfg! 'a new hope' 'empire strikes back' and 'revenge of the jedi' are all dark and epic titles....

    Lucas has lost it.

    I was about to apply for a job at Lucasarts, now I just might be too embarrased!~
  • *sigh* (Score:5, Funny)

    by Ignatius_Gunnarsson ( 262319 ) on Monday August 06, 2001 @09:41PM (#2165616)
    And now, a moment for America to shake its head and sob softly to itself... What the hell is wrong with the "clone wars"? Are the traditional starships we have grown accustomed to now to be replaced with flying saucers? When will George Lucas learn not to make important decisions when drunk?
    • Re:*sigh* (Score:2, Funny)

      by danger42 ( 302987 )
      When I was a kid, I thought they were saying "The Cologne Wars". I really assumed there was some sort of fracas over fragrances. I am just glad it turned out to be "clones".
  • by G-funk ( 22712 ) <> on Monday August 06, 2001 @09:41PM (#2165620) Homepage Journal
    ...Millions of sheep named dolly attack tatooine. All is feared lost, until annakin decides to release his keeler blue heeler to save the day.
  • Bummer... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Dancin_Santa ( 265275 ) <> on Monday August 06, 2001 @09:43PM (#2165634) Journal
    I was hoping for "Jar Jar's fiery death" or something similar. "Attack of the Clones" only makes me fear the creation of an entire army of Jar Jars.

    Dancin Santa
    • by cruelworld ( 21187 ) on Monday August 06, 2001 @10:21PM (#2165826)
      what do you think IS under those stormtrooper helmets?
      • That would tend to explain a lot. I had originally wondered how the Empire managed to recruit and train an army of 100% incompetent stormtroopers.

        Then I was told they were all clones. "Who did they clone, Bozo the clown?", I replied.

        I guess I wasn't that far off. ;-)
    • by Black Parrot ( 19622 ) on Tuesday August 07, 2001 @01:09AM (#2166341)
      > Attack of the Clones" only makes me fear the creation of an entire army of Jar Jars.

      Without a doubt, that's the title's subliminal message: "How can they be clones, if you only buy one of each action figure?"

      Expect the action figures for this one to be sold in sets of twelve.
  • by osgeek ( 239988 ) on Monday August 06, 2001 @09:44PM (#2165649) Homepage Journal
    Not that I'm ragging on the choice of topic here, but I'm genuinely curious: Do adults (>=16 yrs) really care about the Star Wars franchise? I would think that Star Wars as it has become wouldn't be of any more interest than Pokemon here.

    Do people who enjoyed George Lucas' original trilogy (well, minus the last half of RotJ) really care about the George Lucas' current focus on ten-year-olds?
    • Well, actually, yes - I would like to think that the "new and improved" Star Wars would live up to the generationally agnostic originals, that I've come to enjoy and appreciate on levels now that I certainly wouldn't have gotten before 16 years of age.

      I can only speculate why there has been a sacrifice of the genuine quality and depth of the sextet; there is a prolific desire for these to be the universal fantasy of princesses and demons, and yet I personally find the new version of Star Wars providing answers where it is better to leave mystery, showing special effects where there should be simplicity, and employing the enactment of great plot to show power where there should be implication of power through character.

      I personally had hoped for the artistic appreciation I now have of the original trilogy, but was disappointed. True power is restraint, something that lacks in the making of Episode I of the Star Wars series, contrasting its predecessors.

      Of course, it is not my call to make, but I do wish George Lucas had shown the discretion to appeal to many levels of appreciation.

    • by jeko ( 179919 ) on Monday August 06, 2001 @10:05PM (#2165742)
      Imagine if Captain Kangaroo had turned into an alcoholic lunatic, or Mr. Rogers had fallen to AIDS or if Kermit turned up as part of the Cajun dinner special...

      "Star Wars" was MY childhood. My middle-school friends and I argued endlessly about "Empire." Vader, Luke's father? No way. Who was this Boba Fett anyway? Why was he masked the entire film. Somethin's gotta be goin' on there.

      WE WAITED MORE THAN A DECADE FOR EPISODE 1! I grew up, I became an OLD MAN waiting for that bloody movie. When I heard it was coming, it was like the Return of Gandalf. The World would be OK. I dragged my wife to the theater, promising her it would be great, this would be epic, Strap In and Enjoy the Ride.

      Ten minutes in, I wanted to shoot myself. Twenty minutes in, and my wife was openly wondering if this constituted the sort of spousal abuse that would get her more than 50% in the divorce.

      To give you a contemporary example, I want you to go to your child and explain that in the next book, which we're all waiting for like it was Christmas, in the next book, Dumbledore turns out to be a child molester.

      Watch the look on the face of your little Harry-or-Hermione-wannabe.

      THAT's exactly how episode one made me feel.

      • by delong ( 125205 ) on Tuesday August 07, 2001 @04:34AM (#2112114)
        Have you actually *watched* the first three films without the rosy glasses lately? Star Wars was a B-grade space opera flick (no doubt only justified by the then cutting edge FX and Alec Guiness) and the followups weren't much better. Sir Alec turned his nose up at the films ("that Force rubbage"). They're BAD man. I mean, "Star Wars?" How much cheesier of a title can you get? You only think they're wonderful because, like me, you saw them as a kid. There are NO adult themes or elements in ANY of the films, these are aimed at children, Lucas has said they always were and always will.

        Now, I didn't expect much from Phantom Menace, and I actually got more than I expected. I saw kids leaving the theater with wide eyes and full of excitement. No doubt the same way I looked when I saw Star Wars in the theater more than 20 years ago.

        Get over it, man. Star Wars is a children's franchise. It was never good to begin with, so why expect it to be the pinnacle of film now?

        • Have you actually *watched* the first three films without the rosy glasses lately?

          Personally I'd love to, but LUCAS WON'T LET ME! I have to buy the stupid "Special Editions". Damn I wish I had bought them years ago before the painful-to-watch Han and Jabba scene in Episode IV.
      • all the arguments I hear go along the lines of:

        "I saw episode IV-VI when I was a kid, and they were great! and now I went to see episode I, and I was shocked to find that it was made for kids!"

        well... have you ever considered the fact that the first three were, too? and that you like them now because you saw them when you were kids?

        I saw episode one on the premier night here in Sweden. never in my life have I witnessed such excitement. the one boo! I heard was when we saw that they had translated (!) the magical three paragraphs to Swedish!

        then it was all cheers, every time a reference to the old movies were made, or a familiar character was presented.

        most of my male friends thought it was great, with the exception of Jar-Jar. and I see the same consensus here. I have yet to find a single gyu that likes him, or even stands to watch him. and I would like to offer another view of that.

        me and some of my female friends have discussed this phenomena. we all think he's cute. the one bone we have with him is that he's the only one in all the movies that succeeds not by doing his best, but by being chronically clumsy and equally lucky.

        but he is a caricature of a lot of negative male characteristics. and maybe you guys don't like to be reminded of those.

        it's the only way we could explain the extreme, one-sided hate we have witnessed. and maybe there is some truth in it...

        now, flame all you like... I have mail filters, and I know how to use them.
      • THAT's exactly how episode one made me feel.
        This is always going to happen when your childhood favourites are extended, even when it's done by the original author (I won't go into the treacheries committed by the estate of Frank Herbert).

        Remember finding out about child abuse on Gont, and why wizards from Roke avoided girls, in Ursula Le Guin's Tehanu?

        Remember when all the kids got killed, and Aslan turned into Jesus, in C.S. Lewis's The Last Battle?

        Remember when Bilbo Baggins turned into an old, evil monster (if only for a moment) in J.R.R. Tolkien's Lord of the Rings -- and then the "sequel" to that had no hobbits, only elf genealogy and linguistics?

        If it's not what you expected -- that is, what you extrapolated from the first movie(s) or book(s) -- you're not going to like it. We build cosy little worlds from the "original" stories, then hate it when the author intrudes.

        No, I don't think there's a solution. But the problem isn't unique to George Lucas. Sequels to creative works you unconditionally love will tend to suck.

        Especially with speculative / escapist fiction -- part of the appeal of which is (I assume) that the "world" presented is self-contained, and the (usually young) reader can comprehend it in its totality. Unlike the all-too-confusing real world.
    • by dswensen ( 252552 ) on Monday August 06, 2001 @10:49PM (#2165933) Homepage
      I was a big fan of Star Wars as a kid, because it was a science fiction movie with starships, lasers, and weird monsters. I still enjoy it for those reasons today.

      Like many others, I was heavily influenced as a child by Star Wars, and Star Wars played a huge part, I think, in the shaping of my personality. To this day, I still enjoy movies with starships, lasers, and weird monsters. And I still enjoy Star Wars.

      However, I never expected Episode I to magically return me to twelve years of age. I never expected it to erase my capacity for critical thought and open a world of childlike wonder in my head for one simple reason: I'm no longer a child. Neither did I expect the Messiah to come down and fellate me, as so many who were disappointed by Episode I seem to have expected.

      So, while I wasn't all that crazy about Jar Jar, I had relatively few other complaints with the movie. It didn't blow me away, but then, I didn't really expect it to. Especially being an expository prequel such as it is. I feel its biggest weakness as a movie is that it's essentially all backstory. A computer-generated Gungan... not that big a deal.

      To be honest, what's disenchanted me more than anything about Star Wars is all the Lucas-bashing and vitriol that seems to characterize the "fans".

      I get tired of "Kill Jar Jar" humor that's neither clever nor funny. I get tired of seeing Lucas demonized and slandered by people who won't put their money where their mouth is and just refuse to see the movie they supposedly hate -- instead of demanding it be put on DVD immediately. I get tired of people pretending that someone's putting a gun to their head and forcing them to buy merchandise they don't want. I get tired of people attacking Lucas and his movies for not living up to their "mythical hype" when Lucas has said many times that it's just a Flash Gordon serial with a budget.

      That, more than anything, has sapped my enjoyment of the Star Wars universe, far more than any annoying CGI character ever could. But I still enjoy the movies. I just wish others could do the same, or at least move on with their lives if they no longer find the movie enjoyable.
  • Sure it's bad.... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by soulsteal ( 104635 ) <soulsteal@3l337. o r g> on Monday August 06, 2001 @09:49PM (#2165668) Homepage

    but Blue Harvest [] was already used....

  • ENOUGH already! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Rimbo ( 139781 ) <[ten.labolgcbs] [ta] [ytisobmir]> on Monday August 06, 2001 @09:53PM (#2165692) Homepage Journal
    How many freaking "Send in the Clones" jokes do I have to read? IT'S BEEN DONE! READ THE THREAD BEFORE YOU POST! Gaaack!

    Of course, someone else has probably already posted this sentiment by now...

    • So, I first remember seeing the "Send in the Clones" joke in a Mad Magazine, years and years ago. Sure enough, somebody has reposted [] the text from the article, although in my opinion it loses a little without the illustrations. Whatever. Anyhow, having reread it after all these years, I want to call your attention to this passage (the emphasis is mine):

      This ties in neatly with our fifth film (No. 1 in the series), "A Matter of Life and Darth", in which Luke, who has unraveled the secrets of time travel (in "Makin' Wookie", learns that Darth Vader is a half-droid and may be the real father of both Han Solo and See-Threepio.

      Mmm hmm, check. Those Mad Magazine guys were onto something, I tell you. The future of Star Wars is right there for anyone not too blind to see it.

      Ok, I have to go buy some more tinfoil and rewrite my pamphlet debunking the Clone Gunman theory. More later, if Lucas' minions don't catch up to me first.


    • by Tumbleweed ( 3706 ) on Monday August 06, 2001 @10:49PM (#2165935)
      Hey man, watch it. Clones are people, two!
  • When Jedi Attack (Score:5, Insightful)

    by kreyg ( 103130 ) <<kreyg> <at> <>> on Monday August 06, 2001 @10:00PM (#2165718) Homepage
    Well, other than making me think of "When Animals Attack" or "Attack of the &ltcheesy 50's sci-fi topic&gt," it's not too bad.

    The Phantom Menace
    Attack of the Clones
    A New Hope
    The Empire Strikes Back
    Return of the Jedi

    They're all silly unless you've been conditioned as a child to think they're all amazingly cool. Fortunately, I have. :-)

  • Gah (Score:3, Interesting)

    by interiot ( 50685 ) on Monday August 06, 2001 @10:04PM (#2165738) Homepage
    From the official annonucement []:
    • It [using chapter titles] harkens back to the sense of pure fun, imagination and excitement that characterized the classic movie serials and pulp space fantasy adventures that inspired the Star Wars saga.
    Gag me. Worse than merely being cheesy, it's an evil blend of marketing and cheese.
  • by StaticEngine ( 135635 ) on Monday August 06, 2001 @10:04PM (#2165740) Homepage
    And in further news, Episode III will be named, "I Wipe my Ass With Your Money", and will consist entirely of 15 minutes of Hayden Christensen putting on the Darth Vader outfit, saying "This is heavy," and "Okay, I'm ready to be Evil now."
  • Very sad ... (Score:4, Flamebait)

    by taxman_10m ( 41083 ) on Monday August 06, 2001 @10:05PM (#2165744)
    It is very sad that Lucas has chosen to go negative in his campaign against Senator Palpatine. The Senator only wants to use embryos, that will be discarded anyway, to harvest stem cells in an attempt to find a potential cure for such afflictions as Alzheimer's disease and certain neurological disorders.

    By poisiong the debate with such senseless propaganda as "Attack of the Clones" he does injury not only to an honorable public servant with only the public's best interests in mind, but he also places in jeopardy the lives of people needing a cure. To eliminate the hope of these people is a crime against humanity.

    For shame Lucas! For shame!

  • by jutus ( 14595 ) on Monday August 06, 2001 @10:17PM (#2165808) Homepage
    This just in...

    Anakin looks up to see Queen Amidala and Obi-Wan dressed like clones, holding miniature billboards advertising the clone college and dancing to clone music. "Amidala...?" asks Anakin slowly. "Yes, Anakin?" answers the clone Amidala, starting to hum clone music.

    Anakin: That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clone college! [leaves]

    Obi-Wan: I don't think any of us expected him to say that.

  • by number one duck ( 319827 ) on Monday August 06, 2001 @10:18PM (#2165813) Journal
    "The Phantom Menace" "The Attack of the Clones" "My Wookie and Me" "A New Hope" "The Empire Strikes Back" "Return of the Jedi"
  • by Bonker ( 243350 ) on Monday August 06, 2001 @10:39PM (#2165892)
    Collect them all!
  • by Vermifax ( 3687 ) on Monday August 06, 2001 @10:39PM (#2165893) that if the title of the first movie back in '77 had been Star Wars: Attack of the Clones instead of just 'Star Wars' (Retroactively subtitled A new hope) and then the prequel, created in '99 was given a subtitle of 'A new hope' people would be whining and bitching about how lame the title was and how it couldn't compare to any of the titles in the first trilogy. If Jar Jar had been in the first movie, he would have been loved and had figures of him sold on the black market and been incorporated as a real character in fan fiction, while Ewoks would be universally hated and have fanfiction written about 1001 ways to kill them.

    The problem is most of the people bitching, IMO, were children when they saw the movie. They saw with a child's eyes and a child's viewpoint on life. The people complaining have lost the ability to view the series through that childish viewpoint and have attached a sense of reverance towards it that will certainly get me modded down for saying this.

    I think that the people who retain the ability (or a part of it) to view things as a child are probably the ones who loved ST:TPM as I did and yes, they will even like Jar Jar.

  • The real problem... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by chazzf ( 188092 ) <> on Monday August 06, 2001 @10:41PM (#2165904) Homepage Journal that George Lucas isn't fit to direct or be otherwise associated with any Star Wars film. Of the four that have been released, which one would most fans say had the best script, the best directing, the best overall tone, and the best all around story-telling? The Empire Strikes Back. Coincidentally, this is the film that Lucas had the least involvement with.

    Who else was disappointed by the last two films, ROTJ and TPM? Hands up, I know you were. Ewoks? Jar Jar? With the three prequels ROTJ just doesn't hold up as the finisher. It took the novels (i.e., Zahn), to to that. Fire Lucas and put some Sci-Fi folks in charge, someone who hasn't tackled Star Wars. I fear George simply doesn't have it.

  • by Julius X ( 14690 ) on Monday August 06, 2001 @11:04PM (#2165978) Homepage
    This may seem like a flame--and it probably is, but why the reluctance to post this news bit?

    "was among the onslaught of readers who submitted"

    I know I submitted it nine hours ago, and it was almost immediately rejected. I figured someone else had already submitted it and that it would be up on the Frontpage almost immediately. Yet, hours go by, and still no news.

    If anything would qualify as "news for nerds"--I figure this would. Why the delay?
  • by spongman ( 182339 ) on Monday August 06, 2001 @11:30PM (#2166057)
    singalong with lucas...

    oh when the clones!
    oh when the clones!
    oh when the clones come marching in,
    I want to be, in that number!
    oh when the clones come marching in.
  • Probably a fake (Score:4, Redundant)

    by mattlmattlmattl ( 229778 ) on Monday August 06, 2001 @11:33PM (#2166068)
    "Attack of the Clones" is probably meant to mislead merchandise counterfeiters, as "Revenge of the Jedi" (remember that one?) was before they changed it at the last minute to "Return of the Jedi". This way, all the fake merchandise will be easily recognizable because it'll have the wrong name.

    My $.02.
    • They changed it from "Revenge of the Jedi" because as Lucas's wife pointed out, JEDI'S DONT GET REVENGE!
    • So, what you're saying is...

      The title really might be "Send in the Clones"?


    • ...that they changed it from "Revenge of the Jedi" because the upcoming Star Trek movie had the working title "The Vengeance of Khan" (Trek 2 - one of the even #'s, yay!)... The Trek people changed it to the ever cheesy "Wrath of Khan" and the Star Wars folks decided at the last minute that "Revenge" wasn't a suitable business for a Jedi to be getting mixed up in.

      Or at least that's what I read in one of Shatner's "memoir" books... god only knows why I voluntarily READ that trash, one never knows how much is true and how much is 110% "Billshit"...

    • ...but I'm willing to have another run at the football and hope it's not yanked away.

      Say it ain't so, George!

  • by CaptainCarrot ( 84625 ) on Monday August 06, 2001 @11:52PM (#2166126)
    After many years of watching bits and pieces of all the movies but TPM over the years, I've come to the conclusion that Star Wars sucked ass all along but is so constructed that it's difficult to notice.

    Lucas was a devotee of Joseph Campbell [], the late comparative mythologist, and he used Campbell's work as a paint-by-number set for generating the plot of the first movie, by his own admission even if not in so many words. (By "first movie" I mean the first one that was actually made, now called Episode 4 but originally called just "Star Wars".) It's filled with motifs we expect to see in great stories, so our minds naturally associate it with being a great story. Aided by the admittedly competent cinematography, we are presented with the semblence or illusion of a good movie. This blinds us to the plot holes, the shallow characterization, the cliched dialog, and the shoddy acting that it typical of the series.

    Plot Holes: Try, for example, to reconcile the timeline of ANH with what is now known to be required for even the beginning of Jedi training. Luke can't have had time to learn much on Tattooine, and he only has the time during the trip to Aldaraan for serious instruction. How long does this take? There's nothing in the movie to suggest that more than a day or two passes in transit, possibly less. And Luke's starting out as a teenager, when even Anakin at 8 (or is it 10? I forget) is thought by Yoda to be too old to begin.

    Shallow Characterization: All the characters are very close to their archetypes. There are many assumptions we therefore automatically make about them, and Lucas doesn't have to do very much work at all to make them "pass" for deep ones. And he doesn't.

    Cliched Dialog:"I can't believe he's gone." (Luke about Obi-Wan. He'd known him, what, a week or less?) "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." (Han about the Jedi. Substitute the appropriate weaponry and it could have come from a spaghetti western.) "The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers." (Leia to Tarkin. How many times has the plucky revolutionary said something similar to the dictator in numerous other settings?) Et cetera.

    Shoddy acting: Alec Guinness' opinions on this are well known, but even so he and the other few competent actors deliver even the most hideously bad lines in a credible manner. Unfortunately, they don't have enough screen time to make much of a difference. Seen Mark Hamill in anything lately? There's a reason for that. He was bad enough in ANH, but he really showed he didn't have it in RoJ. When he tries to sound mystical he sounds stoned. For serenity we get vacancy. Instead of firm resolve we get a sort of vague assurance. Man he was bad. Carrie Fisher wasn't much better in the first movie, but at least she improved in the craft after a few years. Harrison Ford might have been good enough, but he failed to rise to the level of genius it would have taken to break Han out of the "rogue with a good heart underneath it all" mold.

    If after thinking about it all in these terms I had any doubt about the quality of the story, I simply have to think about TPM. If Lucas ever had it, he's lost it. There just isn't any enthusiasm left any more. He should have been thinking of the people who'd been waiting almost 20 years for that film, not the 10 year olds the promotional tie-ins were designed for.

    Or maybe he was, and this was the best he could do. Oh well. It could have been a lot better.

    • Interesting points, but I have to nit pick over a few of them.

      • And Luke's starting out as a teenager, when even Anakin at 8 (or is it 10? I forget) is thought by Yoda to be too old to begin.

      Maybe Luke's midichlorian count is way over 20,000. (BTW, saying that makes me feel like a two bit whore. Thanks for raping my childhood memories, George).

      • Cliched Dialog:"I can't believe he's gone." (Luke about Obi-Wan. He'd known him, what, a week or less?)

      And yet, strangely, we believe him. We feel it. Same for all the other cheesy dialogue, which fits the archetypes that you berate above so well that we can suspend our disbelief.

      • Shoddy acting

      Uh, OK, wait a second. Have you been to see a Hollywood blockbuster recently? George showed us how to make a great films by just shooting scenes over and over and editing our the really bad bits, a tradition that's still going strong today.

      • There just isn't any enthusiasm left any more

      Which is where we agree completely. All your points about episodes 4 through 6 are valid, but (apart from the latter parts of RotJ) the sheer verve makes up for the technical flaws. Episode 1 is just a cynical flashy quota piece, the cinematic equivelant of those 8 bit computer demos that were great technical showcases but ultimately uninvolving. In contrast, Episode 4 was Pong - only as good as it needed to be, but made with flair and gusto, and enjoyed as such.

    • Plot Holes: Yeah, but Luke is the "last of the Jedi" so he'd be eligible if he was 42 and bald.

      Shallow Characterization: Hence the wide-spread appeal! People know who to love and who to hate, and Lucas backs this up. (People's emotions about the characters make them seem "deep" like you said.)

      Cliched Dialog:"I can't believe he's gone." (Luke about Obi-Wan. He'd known him, what, a week or less?) "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." (Han about the Jedi. Substitute the appropriate weaponry and it could have come from a spaghetti western.) "The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers." (Leia to Tarkin. How many times has the plucky revolutionary said something similar to the dictator in numerous other settings?) Et cetera.

      The lines might be cliches, but they're effective. To me, the movies weren't about romance. First and foremost they were action movies (with a smattering of several religions thrown in for flair and "depth").

      Shoddy acting:By my count, only two actors were "stars" (Guinness and Ford, and Ford not until later). What were you expecting? I agree with the sentiment, but wasn't the first movie made with very low budget (I could be wrong, if I am forgive me) so they had to deal with bad acting, and had to keep the same people through the series.

      Unfortunately the 10-year olds are where the money is. Not many people above 10 are going to get their Moms to buy figurines (of which Lucas gets a big cut). Nothing you can do...
    • I really never noticed any of the points you mentioned, after whatching all 3 movies umpteen times each. Could it be that the original 3 were movies that were more than the sum of their (bad) parts? I mean, the stories were simple to follow. The good/bad polarity of light/dark sides of the force was absolute, easy enough for all us 4 year olds to understand at the time. And IMO, the special effects played a HUGE part as well.

      All these attributes served to make the original series stand out in all our minds, not to mention our young, impressionable minds at the time. (E.g., in my mind, Transformers will always be the greatest cartoon of all time, even though I can barely sit through the non-sensical episodes now.)

      • The good/bad polarity of light/dark sides of the force was absolute, easy enough for all us 4 year olds to understand at the time.

        Or even us 13 year olds. But it wasn't just the kids who were taken in. Sober, serious, adult critics were almost uniform in their praise. Harlan Ellison's was the sole, lonely critical voice to be raised against it, and even in his case his point wasn't so much that it sucked, but just that it wasn't quite as good as everyone else was saying. I suspect that even Lucas was surprised at the critics' reaction, but he knew good luck when he saw it and ran with it. Can't blame him for that, but I can blame him for pretending to have made something profound.

        • > Harlan Ellison's was the sole, lonely critical voice to be raised against it, and even in his case his point wasn't so much that it sucked, but just that it wasn't quite as good as everyone else was saying.

          I saw it at college age. I was disappointed because it was space opera rather than "hard" scifi of the 2001 variety. But at least it was fun. I've rented it several times, and I'll rent it again someday.

          That Pathetic Movie wasn't fun, and I certainly won't be renting it.
  • by Junior J. Junior III ( 192702 ) on Monday August 06, 2001 @11:56PM (#2166142) Homepage
    "Star Wars: Episode II: Worst Episode Ever"
  • by jbuhler ( 489 ) on Tuesday August 07, 2001 @01:08AM (#2166337) Homepage
    10. Plan 9 From a Galaxy Far, Far Away
    9. I Married a Dark Jedi
    8. It Came from Tatooine
    7. Die, Jedi, Die!
    6. Will Success Spoil George Lucas?
    5. Evil Sith 2: Army of Clones
    4. Urotsukijedi
    3. Pod Racer Summer
    2. Midichlorians: the Awakening

    And the number one rejected title for Star Wars Episode 2...

    1. Surf Gungans Must Die

"I think trash is the most important manifestation of culture we have in my lifetime." - Johnny Legend