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Convert Movies From R to PG13 to PG On The Fly 499

uchi writes "Trilogy Studios announced the launch of its "Movie Mask" web site - www.moviemask.com , which will eventually lead up to the release of its "Movie Mask DVD Player" and "Movie Mask Director" software. The Director software will allow users to selectively add/edit a video adding graphics and special effects, which is nothing special in my opinion. The Movie Mask DVD Player, on the other hand, will allow its users to download a movie config file(for lack of a better term) which will have various portions of the movies to bleep/cut out depending on the rating which the person set. It can be changed on the fly while watching the video. This seems like a good idea - it would allow many people who don't wish to be subjected to violence/nudity/language a chance to watch any movie they want without waiting months for it to be released on network television, already PG-13ized."
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Convert Movies From R to PG13 to PG On The Fly

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  • by Mr. Eradicator ( 470089 ) on Wednesday November 14, 2001 @09:59AM (#2563223) Homepage
    Does it have a "reverse" option so I can add more meaningless nudity and cussing?
  • by weez75 ( 34298 )
    This is a fantastic idea but just like other things it means that parents and people sensitive to things have to use it. Most likely, instead of using these tools they will just complain about the content in the programs instead...
  • Fight (Score:2, Funny)

    by VA Software ( 533136 )

    This is good - the copyright control freaks and the "think of the children" advocates can fight it out in the corner while we get on with our lives with "real" DVD players and films.
  • by Masem ( 1171 ) on Wednesday November 14, 2001 @10:02AM (#2563241)
    That is, Jar-Jar vs No Jar-Jar versions of certain movies? :-)

    • by plover ( 150551 ) on Wednesday November 14, 2001 @10:28AM (#2563432) Homepage Journal
      Insightful observation!

      A new generation of homegrown-editors will spring up on the net. You'll get the web sites devoted to erasing annoying characters from otherwise watchable movies. But you'll get so much more.

      You'll get "family-friendly" web sites devoted to removing only the sexual references, but leave in John Wayne killing natives with a dagger. Other editors will run web sites that remove the violence but leave the sex.

      You'll also end up with violence-prone editors. They'll give you the "Good parts" edition of Dirty Harry, featuring just the gun battles and punk shakedowns. Playboy will probably run versions of popular movies just skipping to the sex scenes.

      You'll get the Short Attention Span Theatre's version of Waterworld. It'll be three minutes long, and people will still complain that it's too long! The site'll probably be run by the Cliff's Notes people, and will probably give the Cliff's Notes edition of all sorts of old classics.

      Certain editors will probably become wildly popular because they trim all sorts of bad and long popular movies down to their viewable components. Before long, the RIAA will get involved because someone will come up with a "Commercial Product Placement Skipping" version.

      This could be the Next Big Thing!

      John

    • This is brilliant. Finally, a watchable version of "Titanic". A quick bit of nudity, and then 20 minutes of the ship sinking. I like it.
  • by boaworm ( 180781 ) <boaworm@gmail.com> on Wednesday November 14, 2001 @10:02AM (#2563245) Homepage Journal
    I just wonder how you'll convince the 13 year old kid to enable censorship on the cool movie he just rented. Are they going to tag this up with all DVD-players requiring social security number to verify your age ?


    Well well, i guess it may be useful in some cases atleast, and it sounds like its quite simple to implement, just tag each "scene" in the movie with a "recommendated age tag" and skip those which are improper.

    • Most likely his parents will do it for him of course! However, if it just cuts scenes out of the movies, won't it really mess up the plot line sometimes? In addition, if someone, like his parents, are trying to use this technology, isn't it possible that he will find a way to bypass it, or perhaps that his parents won't be able to use it very well, and end up making things even worse?

      If you really want to keep your kids from watching those kinds of movies, then try to give them values. Even if they watch those movies then, they at least won't share them with you, and you'll feel better... Who knows, they actually might even listen! Don't play censorship cop, be a parent...
      • by virg_mattes ( 230616 ) on Wednesday November 14, 2001 @11:51AM (#2564069)
        > Don't play censorship cop, be a parent...

        Unfortunately, sometimes being a parent is playing censorship cop. Giving them values is a matter of course, but that takes time, and in the interim it's sometimes necessary to censor. I take the view that it's better to preview a movie myself to decide if it's appropriate for my kids, but sometimes there's a movie of much value that has inappropriate parts, and (like the original story said) I don't necessarily want to wait for the sanitized version to appear on network TV. In this case, my goal isn't to prevent them from watching the movie, but to let them watch the movie but cut out the few parts that are not appropriate for them. The best example is "The Name of the Rose", which is a really good murder mystery, but has one rather graphic sex scene. I'd let a thirteen year-old watch the movie, as it's a good film, but that one scene throws the whole thing, and IMHO removing it is a better approach than simply forbidding the whole movie.

        Virg
    • The kid needs no convincing - it's the parents that need it. The video store shouldn't be renting videos to 13-year-old kids that are inapppropriate to begin with, but if this technology catches on, then the players should have some sort of access control wherin the parents define that their children can only watch movies that are PG13 or less (in this case) or movies that the machine can filter down to that level. If a movie doesn't have the standard "rating code" or filter available, then the kid has to get the parent to either add or remove the movie to the mahcine's allow/deny list.

      It's really pretty simple, aside from getting parents to actually 1) keep parental access away from their kids and 2) play an active role in their child's life. After all, if the kid's renting his own movies, it's quite possible that the parents have left the child-raising to the TV anyway, and are not going to want to have to "work" to protect the kids from "bad pictures".
    • I'm 23 and have been waiting for this feature for a long time. I prefer my movies without sex and without language. Most of my family feels the same way, and we are all adults.



      Strangely, I didn't even think of kids when I read this item.

      • by Happy Monkey ( 183927 ) on Wednesday November 14, 2001 @11:11AM (#2563773) Homepage
        I prefer my movies without sex and without language.

        Wow. Even before the 'talkies' appeared on the scene, they'd put the essential dialogue into the movie as a sort of 'slide'. Offhand, I can't think of any movies with no language at all, though I expect there are some animated ones with language only in the titles and credits.
    • Are they going to tag this up with all DVD-players requiring social security number to verify your age ?

      No, the MPAA (oops, sorry, I meant their puppets, the politicians) will just tack some more language on their next DMCA that makes circumvention of an age restriction device punishable by law.
  • by Trinition ( 114758 ) on Wednesday November 14, 2001 @10:03AM (#2563256) Homepage
    So let me get this straight. In the R version, you see the happy couple making love with no sheets covering them. In the PG-13, you see them starting to make out, presumably naked, under cover of sheets. In the PG version you just see them smoking cigarettes in bed for no apparent reason?

    Honestly, any PG-aged kid I know would either STILL know what's going on, or if not, would be curious enough to ask WHY they are smkoking. What is it we're trying to prevent here? The actual knowledge of the subject, or an example of it?

    • by ragnar ( 3268 ) on Wednesday November 14, 2001 @11:23AM (#2563863) Homepage
      It gives plenty. Watch on old movie sometime and you may notice that people can be killed or be passionate without ever seeing blood or frontal nudity. How did they do it? They used imagination and good acting and (correctly in my opinion) concluded that the graphic details were subordinate to the story.
    • by artemis67 ( 93453 ) on Wednesday November 14, 2001 @01:38PM (#2564954)
      I would presume that the softwarewould just remove the questionable scene altogether.

      This is actually a good thing for parents who want to rent videos for the whole family to watch. It's incredibly embarrassing for a parent when there are graphic depictions of sexuality in what would otherwise be a very entertaining film. Take Jerry McGuire... you rent it for the family and the scene pops up where Kelly Preston is bouncing on Tom Cruise's lap and screaming, "Don't you ever stop fucking me!" Even though you never see her full body, the scene is way too intense for kids.

      Yeah, I know where the fast forward button is on my VCR, but the movie isn't entertaining for me if I have to sit on the edge of my seat with remote in hand, waiting for questionable material.

      Compounding the problem is the "Director's Cut" that comes out on the DVD's. There are probably a lot of examples where a movie that had a mild amount of adult content turned it up to 11 on the Director's Cut DVD.

      I applaud any technology that aids me as a parent.

      -----
  • What we really need is a system that will automatically skip to the "good parts..."
  • Can it go the other way, as the dual headed arrows suggest?
  • Well, that seemed an OK idea, but I was thinking "Why can't you already do this within the current DVD framework?" I mean, the editing bit is really simple. If you can stick different camera angles and stuff on DVD's, why not this?

    Anyway, it says on their website FAQ [moviemask.com] that this will be included in "Next Generation" DVD players. What is a NG player? Apparently "A next generation DVD player is a DVD player that has a hard drive and internet capability. They are 25 companies currently that plan to release these type of players within the next 12 months."

    Ah joy. I love the thought of needing a DVD player that can store stuff and dialup companies for me. Maybe I will be able to get streaming advertising or something when I press the pause button.

    Why oh why do we need a new generation of DVD players?
    • The answer is that you Can. However none of the studios are doing so because the expense of multiple shoots of the relevent scenes, multiple editing, multiple certification by the censor boards and so on costs more than they think they will get back in increased revenue. The DVD FAQ [dvddemystified.com] has the explination.
  • by Flounder ( 42112 ) on Wednesday November 14, 2001 @10:06AM (#2563283)
    Now, my 4 year old children can benefit from watching my XXX movies tuned down to a G rating. And a 2 minute movie of random people talking and closing credits is perfect for their attention span.
  • by Ami Ganguli ( 921 ) on Wednesday November 14, 2001 @10:06AM (#2563285) Homepage

    I really like this idea. Personally I have no problem with sex, nudity, etc., but I'm really squeamish about certain types of violence. It would be really cool if I could set my personal viewing preferences to "maximum sex, minimum torture", while still allowing other people to watch "no sex please, but lots of violence". It's a brilliant idea.

    • I think it certainly does have its uses, even for those of us who don't have kids. I remember seeing "The Thomas Crown Affair" with my family, and let me tell you, there's nothing quite so uncomfortable as watching a nude sex scene with your mom... I wish I could have set THAT to a PG-13 level...
      • I know exactly what you mean. The first time I saw Clerks [imdb.com] was with friends and I thought it was brilliant. So when I was spending the week with my girlfriend's family and we wanted to rent a movie I mentioned how much I liked it and us "young folk" rented it. Somehow I forgot just how crude the movie is - or I guess I just didn't notice the first time around.

        It's not nearly as funny if your girlfriend's mother is sitting in the room when one of characters discovers she's just had sex with a corpse.

        I'm not sure this rating system would have saved me though. The movie really wouldn't be the same without the crude jokes.

      • by armb ( 5151 ) on Wednesday November 14, 2001 @11:23AM (#2563864) Homepage
        > there's nothing quite so uncomfortable as watching a nude sex scene with your mom

        A friend of mine is the daughter of an actress who appeared years ago in a TV series that has been repeated. Try watching your mom's sex scene with your mom....
  • More Control (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Relic of the Future ( 118669 ) <{gro.skaerflatigid} {ta} {selad}> on Wednesday November 14, 2001 @10:07AM (#2563287)
    I think this would be a much better product if they allowed you to set levels for each of language, sex, violence, etc. Although, it does seem that you can make your own "masks", so I guess a third party could do that.
  • Then maybe we'd finally get to see Princess Leia out of the gold bikini...
  • Maybe we could use this technology for good instead of evil...

    We could make a more "official" jar jar-less Episode I without scouring (no pun intended) for phantom edit copies/files. Because, jar-jar is truly offensive to me. =P

    E.
  • by Malc ( 1751 ) on Wednesday November 14, 2001 @10:10AM (#2563313)
    I thought that DVD could already do this? Most DVD players have a parental lock feature which can result in by-passing scenes in the movie, e.g. the pie scene in American Pie. What's this offering that we don't already have?
    • Although all DVD-authoring systems (okay, not iDVD), have the ability to read the parental guidence registry very few DVDs have ever used this feature. It seriously would take two lines of script to implement this feature. Somthing like:

      Jump To SexScene if SPRM13 < X
      Jump To NextScene if SPRM13 >=X

      Most studios stand by their "film as an art", so it never gets done. This product is a third party coming in, whether one agrees with it or not, and adding a feature which a good portion of the consumers want.

      How many want it? Enough that SPRM13 was a register set aside in the DVD spec just for parental control.

  • Some movies should have limits. Like "Goodfellas" [imdb.com] should not be able to go to a PG13 rating, it should stay 'R'. Cause, quite honestly, you wouldn't have a clue what the story was if they bleeped all the words out!

    Come'ere you mutha*censored**censored**censored**censored*!! I'll bust your *censored**censored**censored**censored**censored* *censored*!!! *censored*!!

    You'd have to remove Joe Pesci all together!
  • Implementation (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Man of E ( 531031 )
    In order to use it, the system "will allow its users to download a movie config file". Why would kids go through the trouble of downloading a config file to avoid seeing nudity and cursing?!
    The only way to actually implement it is with a password system that allows parents to set the rating, and automatically downloads the correct config file. It would still be a pain, though.
    As an alternative, we might see different ratings become a standard feature on DVDs, with password protection built into the player. That way, you wouldn't need a computer to get the protection.
    Still, within a few weeks after the release of the player, we'll probably see hacks posted everywhere that mess up the config file so 12-year-old script kiddies can see the nudity. Never underestimate kids in search of pr0n.
    • Someone with points, mopd the parent up.

      hilarious, but excellent insight: "In order to use it, the system "will allow its users to download a movie config file". Why would kids go through the trouble of downloading a config file to avoid seeing nudity and cursing?!"
  • Ratings are a really weird moral artifact - I sometimes wonder why they still exist.

    Oh sure, everybody wants content labeling so they know what they're getting, and god forbid some little kid should see guts splashed on the walls, but there are things about the rating system that seem to ooze enforcement of a moral standard nobody voted on.

    For example, most scenes of full-frontal nudity or drug use automatically get you an R, regardless of the context. You probably couldn't film Michaelangelo sculpting "David" without getting an R. If you do a movie about drug use and how it will lead you down the path of destruction, you're going to get an R if you show anybody smoking a cigarette that is *insinuated* as being a joint. Better not show a person taking allergy shots, because that heroine abuse will get you an R!

    And then there's the all-feared NC-17. The rating that knocks things out of theaters, makes studio execs cower in fear, and little babies all over the nation cry. Mostly sexual content lands you an NC-17. And not "pornography". Anything that has sexual content outside of what you see in "morally wholesome" movies will get you an NC-17. Since NC-17 is such a financial death sentence, no movie wants one and consequentially no content that would get you an NC-17 is ever released to the general public.

    Now I'm not saying that I like all of my movies to have porn, violence, and drug use, but we're adults here. (Well, maybe I shouldn't say that on slashdot, but you know what I mean) Ratings seem appropriate *MAYBE* to protect little kids, (we'll ignore the fact that the parents should be doing that instead of the MPAA, but anyway) but I'm an adult and I don't want to be protected from anything.

    Ratings make me uncomfortable because I know for a fact that there's content I don't see due to them, (like some things getting NC-17s) because it's a system built upon a "moral foundation" that I don't share. (Guns & death are better than sex and drugs) and because they're shoved down the throats of all age groups despite the fact that they only really pertain to a small subsection of the population.

    Let's not figure out methods of moving from one rating to another, let's figure out how to fix or eliminate them.
    • What I find very interesting is comparing the ratings that movies get around the world. A movie [imdb.com] that gets an "R" in the US can get a "U" in France - same as a "G". Very rarely do they agree.
    • As an adult, who is competent to choose what things I want to put in my head, I appreciate a ratings system which helps me make an informed decision about what movies are possibles, which ones are likely viewable, and which ones are completely off the radar screen.

      All of the things that we watch and listen to shape us, even if that shaping is in a very very minor way. They affect the way that we perceive the world around us, and the way that we make decisions. This is the origin of the idea of the "important film."

      I choose not to be shaped by violence, drugs and rampant sexual permissiveness. This is part of my freedom. The movie makers are free to make whatever films they want, and we are free to patronize them or not. I respect your right in the US to make and watch films which are focused on ideas and world views that are in conflict with my world view. I'm glad you have that right.

      WRT to the issue of movies being edited so that they meet some criteria in a raings system, I believe that the digitization of movies will allow much greater freedom in the area of "director's releases." This should do a great deal to alleviate your concerns about having someone else's world view shape your choices.

      On the topic of the financial death sentence of the NC-17 rating - it boils down to what the customer wants.

      Interestingly, the American public is apparently less interested in movies with "R" content than those with "G" content. This [dove.org] report shows that "G" rated movies make a 78% better ROI than "R" movies.

      Hollywood is more interested in doing a poor job of telling a story and livening up the movie with explosions, guns, and of course, bare breasts in sexual settings, than it is in making money. These things lead to pats on the back from their "artistic peers" and statistically this must be more important than making $$

      After using the ratings system to assist with the triage process, I then choose to refer to information-based websites like Screenit [screenit.com] which give me a tremendous amount of information about the movie's contents and lets me make an informed decision about whether I want to see what the director wanted to say.

      Thanks for taking the time to read this.

      Regards,
      Anomaly

      PS - God loves you and longs for relationship with you.
      If you would like to know more about this, please contact me at tom_cooper at bigfoot dot com.
  • Yes, directors voluntarily choose to destroy their movies for the sake of the censors, but there still is pressure put on them from the studios. While I don't have a particular problem with this technology (it's technology, therefore it's morally neutral), I do see this as a negative for the film industry. This is especially true for films where the director (or some other single visionary) doesn't have the final say on post-production. I think of "Eyes Wide Shut", a film which was bastardized in large part by Blockbuster and the major movie theatres which refuse to show NC-17 films.

    Again, it's technology, it's voluntary, so there's not much you can do about it, but it's by no means a positive thing.

    • When you're roping in millions of dollars from investors and spending millions more to promote these films to specifically targetted demographic groups, they hardly qualify as hallowed works of art. First and foremost, they are business ventures - artistic vision is allowed only within the scope of that mindset.

      Anybody is free to make NC-17 films, they just shouldn't be surprised that major theatres don't consider them worthwhile. Let them send their films to the art houses and indie theaters instead, if they want them shown that badly. If they prove to be a hit, the major theaters will follow.

      The way I see it, this technology will allow films to be seen that otherwise would not have been, with the only cost being the snipping of some "naughty bits." Who cares?

  • Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday November 14, 2001 @10:12AM (#2563331)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Useful in schools (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Casca ( 4032 ) on Wednesday November 14, 2001 @10:14AM (#2563350) Journal
    Damn, are slashdot readers sarcastic and pessimistic or what? I think the first 25 comments I read thought this was a laughable product.

    I see a real use in this. My wife is a highschool history teacher. There are many movies that she would like to be able to show, but because of some bad language, nudity, or violence, she is not able to use the films. Community standards are a bitch. If she could pop a DVD in, hit the PG rating and let it roll, that would be great.

    Beyond that, there are some movies that I think my nieces and nephews would enjoy that I have seen, that have bits in them that are just not appropriate at their age. This would help with that too.

    I'll probably get flamed all to hell from the slashdot (everything must be free!) zealots now...
    • Good point - I remember seeing Clan of the Cave Bear in high school, and the teacher had to run from the back of the auditorium to stop the VCR and fast-forward past bits that would have gotten him fired...
    • by Hanno ( 11981 ) on Wednesday November 14, 2001 @10:38AM (#2563496) Homepage
      If your community standards do not allow kids to see works of art that a teacher thinks is appropriate, you should change the community standards, not the work of art.

      Btw, I'm not an everything must be free zealot.
      • you should change the community standards
        Yes. And if you think violence is bad, you should convince all the violent people not to hurt each other. And if you think war is bad, you should get all the warmongers in the world to hold hands and sing "Give peace a chance." And if you think Microsoft is bad, you should convince everyone not to buy Microsoft products.

        I think we've solved all the problems now.

        By the way, I'm being sarcastic.
    • My wife is a highschool history teacher

      Warning - this is not a flame from a FREE FREE FREE guy. This is just a thought!

      At school, aged... 13, we were watching movies in English class with Tits and Bums in them. It was most amusing for us young chaps! Generally they were Shakespeare works, one Lady McBeth stands out in my mind.. mmmm... naked literary babes. ANYWAY Didn't harm us a bit. Within 5 minutes we just got used to it and took it as read that mad Miss Smith let us watch ladie films.

      A HISTORY teacher should be teaching the following through examples:

      Censorship is bad.
      Prohibition is bad.
      Democracy is good.
      Don't mess with the kids.

      We are all cleverer than our parents, our kids are cleverer than us - they can handle more than we could.

      And if they can't - just lock em up for life - plenty more where they came from!
      • We are all cleverer than our parents, our kids are cleverer than us - they can handle more than we could.

        Exactly. This is why, we have to worry about nukes in the hands of any semi-technological nation, while our parents only had to worry about nukes from two nations, and their parents only had to worry about aerially dropped conventional explosives, and their parents only had to worry about machine guns, and their parents only had to worry about repeating shotguns...

        You are not significantly smarter than the human beings who preceeded you. It only appears that way because you haven't yet stumbled onto the fact that the world is much more complex than it seems to a child.

        Don't mess with the kids.
        Good point, that one. In any battle between the aged and the young, side with the young. Time is on their side, and Time is an unbeatable ally.
    • A device that lets schools show even more watered down versions of Hollywood films is a good thing? I'm sorry, but few of the films I watched during my high school life were at all valuable to my education and those that were would most likely not be the first targeted for this type of technology. Of the few valid showings I've heard of in my school you had Pi for the Philosophy class, Grave of the Fireflies for the nonwestern history class (which was then never shown again because it disturbed people with its animated view of the horrors our country caused), and really that's about it. Occasionally we'd watch screen versions of literary works, but since these were mostly direct translations I really don't see the point in watering down the visual version - most high school boys have more vivid imaginations sexually than Hollywood could put together to match the novel/play's content, so they've already seen it in their minds anyway (assuming they read the damn work at all). As for history, there are a few other worthwhile movies we watched: Ghandi, The Last Emporer, maybe something I forgot. Still, I think the 3 hours spent watching each of those movies could've been spent more effectively with our teacher teaching us, knowing our educational needs, rather than having Hollywood preach to us.

      As an aside, we also watched The Little Buddha in the same class - please tell your wife never to show this movie as it will undoubtedly lead to her students mocking Keanu Reeves portrayal of Sadartha Buddhartha (sorry for my spelling and or mangling of this name) by saying, in Bill and Ted fashion, "Woah, I'm, like, totally enlightened dude!"
  • So what? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by big_groo ( 237634 ) <groovis.gmail@com> on Wednesday November 14, 2001 @10:15AM (#2563352) Homepage
    That doesn't mean I'm going to have my kids watch an R rated movie with this thing. Sure you can take out cussing, violence and nudity - but what about mature themes? Kids aren't immune to those.

    Besides, why would I want to ruin a director's vision of what s/he would like the audience to see?

    None for me, thanks.
    • Re:So what? (Score:2, Interesting)

      Besides, why would I want to ruin a director's vision of what s/he would like the audience to see?

      Gee, what a great attitude! Let's apply it to software.

      "Why would I want to ruin a developer's vision of what s/he would like the user to see?"

      Possibly because the developer is not omniscient and can't decide what all users will want to see. Possibly because the developer's vision is flawed. (Phantom Menace 1.1, anyone?) Possibly for reasons I can't begin to imagine but which will become obvious once the device is on the market.
  • As with so many other neat things, this is in the DVD spec; you can assign a rating to a section of audio/video, and tell the player to play only a certain level or below. Or, use seamless branching. Or, buy your movies at Wal-Mart or Blockbuster where they're pre-censered for your convenience and safety.
  • This seems like a good idea - it would allow many people who don't wish to be subjected to violence/nudity/language a chance to watch any movie they want without waiting months for it to be released on network television, already PG-13ized.

    Imagina using this option on the south park movie. You'd be watching a black screen for 90 minutes :)
  • Movie making is an art form that very few people can do well. What about the impact of deleting out violent scenes has on the overall impact of the movie? Doesn't this device impact on screenwriter/director's rights?

    Could we also rip out pages of a book to eliminate the offensive materials without the author's permission?
  • ... would be a way for it to insert violence and nudity into films.

    Suddenly Star Trek Generations would be worth watching :)

  • There are movies every now and then that I would like to watch with my under-8-year-old kids, but the few spots with fu*k type words and/or scenes with excessive gore nix that option.

    In my opinion, you can pull these things out many times without affecting the plot in any way. I'll buy this box as soon as it shows up at Walmart.
  • Good idea or not. You can't modify other people's films and then distribute it(and charge for it). I wonder if the MPAA will sue? If they did, it'd be the first time I was on thier side.


    D

    • No it's not (Score:4, Insightful)

      by DarkMan ( 32280 ) on Wednesday November 14, 2001 @11:06AM (#2563740) Journal
      It's no more illegal than a pen to modify a book. Or a paintbrush to modify a painting.

      They are selling technology that _allows_ the user (who already has the mmovies) to make small (?) modifications to the film. It's nothing that I caouldn't do with the mute button and fast forward, just a lot more convient.

      If they were reselling films they've edited, that would be. But that's not what they are doing.
  • I think a bad aspect of this is that it allows viewers to muck with the director's vision at will. (And yes, the MPAA does it all the time.)

    Movies are made from a script with certain events and dialogue, and the director has the unifying vision that drives how it's all shot and put together. When the viewer can select what is in the movie and what is cut, it's no longer the movie the director made, unless the movie was made with this in mind.

    Just like viewing a pan-and-scanned movie (you don't see the movie that was shot), this changes the movie you watch. Should we extend this technology so in an art museum we can wear special glasses that allow us to put clothes on the nudes?
    (I recently saw an exhibit that happened to feature some nude paintings and there was a big warning out front - "Might be offensive!")

    OK, here's a very debatable point: movies are art. Not necessarily good art, but art nonetheless. Even if you don't agree, they are very complex creations requiring the effort of many people over long periods - surely so much effort is worth something.

    I don't know -- certainly people have the right to choose not to see/watch things that offend them, but do they have the right to change works of art? To screw with the artist's vision? Even to change very complex creations that may not be "art" but took a helluva lot of effort...?

    Hmmm.
  • by LS ( 57954 ) on Wednesday November 14, 2001 @10:32AM (#2563458) Homepage
    I thought that cinema was form of art. In the future, will museums provide glasses to selectively block genitals and breasts on certain paintings? Will e-book readers have settings too? Must everything be compromised and converted into interactive fiction?

    I seriously doubt any claims that violence and sex in various mediums are the root causes of any ills of society. But I think that the lack of any concept of artistic integrity points to where humanity's problems DO come from.

    LS
    • No one's telling you that you can't watch the original. And I agree with you; I wouldn't want to watch one of these edited films. But there are people who wouldn't mind toning an R down to PG-13 and watching it with their child, or younger sibling, or what have you. I think this is a MUCH better approach then caveing in to the "save the children" advocates and only producing edited movies.
  • It doesn't look like the same company, but there is a company that makes this kind of device for TV watching. What it does is it monitors the closed caption signal and bleeps out words that could be considered offensive. I think you can set it to display replacement words on screen, like darn instead of damn.

    It's made by a Christian company so in addition to curses, you can filter stuff like using God's name in vain. Personally I think it's a decent idea. If it's a choice between devices like this, and lobbying congress to censor our music, tv, and movies I'll take the devices. Of course you still run into the same problems with internet censorware - some parents will inevitably see this as a replacement for actual supervision, and they won't be aware of what their children are viewing.

    In my opinion, it's a lot worse to not supervise your kids, than to have them hear a curse or two..
  • Predictably... (Score:2, Interesting)

    ... the response to this story is whining about censorship, demands for creative freedom, etc., when what people really mean is, "We want our smut!"

    Quite a few Hollywood movies are otherwise excellent productions that have been ruined by the addition of gratuitous sex, nudity, violence, coarse language, and so on. Why? Hollywood believes that it sells. But the truth is that most people don't appreciate the garbage, and would go see movies without it, and would be just as entertained. That's why edited movies [familysafemedia.com] are so popular.

    There are plenty of adults who prefer not to be exposed to unnecessary filth. Call us old-fashioned, uptight, naive. But the fact is that we're the ones holding the country together by raising good strong families.

    And don't excuse the garbage that Hollywood pushes by saying that movies just mirror reality. If anything, they present a selective view of reality -- there is much more to life than sex and violence!

  • I just hate it to see those 'home-videos' that just last forever because the owner hasn't got the equipment (or time) to make a nice edit.
    Now that we'll be having DVD recorders it is quite easy to jam your home video from the camera onto the DVD
    and use software like this to cut out the boring pieces. Not as good as the professional solution but you would also
    not need 2 VCRs, editing equipment and 4 weeks holiday
  • by tmark ( 230091 ) on Wednesday November 14, 2001 @10:39AM (#2563509)
    I can't imagine how this is going to work well. If the player automatically strips out violence/sex/offensive language, what will this do to movies where certain such scenes are integral ?

    I'm thinking of movies like "Saving Private Ryan", "Apocalypse Now", "The Matrix", "Terminator", "The Wild Bunch", "Rocky", "Scarface", - heck, even "Star Wars", where the movies turn crucially on scenes that would be deleted. In the above movies, for instance, if you delete the violence you end up with something that is incomprehensible.
  • How about players that autoskip/mask:
    1) FBI warning (Film Buisness Investigations?)
    2) Those annoying commercials at the beginning
    of the movie.
    3) The "Feature presentation" crap...let me watch the fricking movie already!

    Pardon me for pointing out the blatantly obvious, but did anyone notice that saving private ryan was on the front of the page?

    Kind of silly as it have to simply eject the disk once it was put in. Good movie, but deeply distrubing.

    cheers
  • by damieng ( 230610 ) on Wednesday November 14, 2001 @10:44AM (#2563546) Homepage Journal
    Most DVD players have a parental control feature that can be set between 1 and 7 and then password locked.

    Current discs are capable of not being played at all if the disc level is higher than the rating allowed HOWEVER using the "branching" function within the DVD spec it is IIRC possible to branch based on the parental control level.

    This way the director can just put alternate chapters both on the disc and setup the branch points and there you go!

    No special DVD player, no special software.

    I gather however that this raises all sorts of complications with ratings classification.
  • Good idea. Really (Score:2, Insightful)

    by JMZero ( 449047 )
    I know I'd like my kids to be able to watch Forrest Gump without the sex scene. While I'm fine with them knowing about sex, and knowing that characters in the film are "doing it" - I don't think they need to watch it (and this is a much better solution than fast-forward).

    Being able to control and choose what you watch seems like "freedom" not "censorship".

    Implementation might not be done perfectly here, but it's got the right idea (ie, we should be able to choose our editor and not be stuck with the one the studio provides).
    • EXACTLY. When other people control what you watch, that is censorship. With the technology to be self-censoring, the T&A police will be irrelevant. It's nice to see morality become a personal issue instead of a cultural one, again. OTOH the MPAA (the body in Hollywood that controls ratings) is probably going to fight this because "Junior can still see the movie uncensored", if mom and dad happen to forget to set up the censoring.

      Roger Ebert [suntimes.com] is going to be thrilled by this, and it's always good to keep him happy, lest he eat the Earth :)
  • This is a very powerful tool for parents wishing to take responsibility for what their children see and hear, rather than making big brother do it for them, this appears to be a completely configurable option for exposing children to wanton, gratuitous sex and violence in otherwise great films, which in my opinion, sometimes spoils the entire experience. I am in no way a prudish censorist, as anyone who knows me will attest, but I rather like movies that don't resort to sex and violence as a shock value, because it becomes more and more difficult as time goes on to top yourself, just let the plot and the story do the talking, then it will be decided whether your movie is worthy of being viewed.
  • Comment removed (Score:3, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday November 14, 2001 @10:48AM (#2563587)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Let's reclassify all racial epithets as compliments, too. And instead of calling children retarded, let's call them special...or disabled...or challenged...

      Note that all these words have taken on the connotation of their referent. Calling a thing by a different name does not change the thing. The associations that people have with the thing will be associated with the new name.
  • My toddler daughter absolutely loved the South Park movie. With the songs and animation, it's a perfect kids movie -- well, except for the violence and profanity.

    I absolutely love this movie too, and for adults, the extreme violence and profanity help make the movie's point very well. It would have been the most socially relevant movie of the year had it not been for American Beauty.

    But since before she started to speak, we cut her off because we didn't want her patterning her speech after the movie or wondering about the toys in Saddam's bedroom, etc. I am now in the process of ripping the DVD, pulling it into an editor, and bleeping, masking and cutting what I don't want her to see to produce a kids movie she loves and I approve of.

    This might just make it easier for those without the editing resources.
  • As a parent of a 7-year-old, I find myself wishing for "expurgated" versions of some of the old standby movies... Example: I'd shared the original "Star Wars" trilogy with my daughter (who absolutely loved it)...then, we watched Mel Brook's "Spaceballs". I found that I wasn't nearly as quick on the "mute" button as I needed to be...same thing with "Blazing Saddles", by the way.

    What I would like to see are multiple datapaths through the DVD of varying "appropriateness" levels that would make more "family-rated" entertainment available. Multiple datapaths are the DVD spec now, and should be supported by every player...all it would take is for the producers of the DVD to include the "mangled for TV" video datapath, dubbed audi and an appropriate menu selection, and we could have family movie night without need for parental preview and fast-forward. Plus, the original theatrical release could be included along with the director's cut, as well as the now-common commentary audio track.

    Aside: I do not know if the DVD rating system supports different ratings for different datapaths...anyone have an idea? That may still limit the use of DVDs that those who lock down the rating ceiling on our DVD players. I don't really have any experience, as the version of (Xine [sourceforge.net]) that I run doesn't do ratings. At any rate, I'm still a believer in participating in my child's activities, so that won't slow me down any--but it would be more convenient as a whole. Your kid want to watch "Top Gun?" at his slumber party? Fine...it's just 5 minutes shorter, and the story is just as compelling.

    The only obstacles to this, AFAIK, are the additional work requirements of adding the extra dubs, and (perhaps) the objections of the directors/producers/artists involved. It might not be of monumental import...but I do believe that it would help sell more DVDs to parents with young children.

  • by wfrp01 ( 82831 ) on Wednesday November 14, 2001 @10:58AM (#2563677) Journal
    So you've got a puritanical bug up your ass, and you cut out the nudity. But wait! There's some essential dialog in that bedroom scene that ties the whole plot together! What do you do?

    I'm sure we can all do without Jar-Jar, no matter what he says, but in general, I can't see this working. Just who are these talented editors, who will cut and snip the patient so well that no one will even know surgery took place?

    I told my mother to watch the movie "Brazil" when it was on television some years back. You know what they did? They chepped the ending, to make it a happy one!

    How many copyright holders are going to agree to publishing their art in this bastardized format? The opportunistic greedy ones, like Sony et al, will be delighted, I'm sure. And an ugly mess it will be.

    From "Brazil":

    Dr Jaffe: "Can you believe it?! Just me and my little knife! Snip - snip - slice - slice - Can you believe it?"

    and elsewhere:

    Mrs Terrain: "My complication had a complication, but Dr. Chapman says I'll soon be up and bouncing about like a young gazelle."

    Yeah, right.
    • How many copyright holders are going to agree to publishing their art in this bastardized format?

      So...when it's software, then the rights of the user of copyrighted material are at least as important as the rights of the copyright holder. But when it's Art, that's different. I don't buy that. Either MY rights, my enshrined FAIR USE rights are as important as those of the creator...or they're not. Don't like what I do to great art? Fine...don't watch it. Do my edits offend you? You don't have to even know they exist.
  • by swillden ( 191260 ) <shawn-ds@willden.org> on Wednesday November 14, 2001 @11:11AM (#2563778) Journal

    Well, actually it was a buddy's idea, but I've been working on it. I have hacked Xine [sourceforge.net] to do on-the-fly edits of DVDs. My code can do various edits now, but I'm just beginning to work on the "edit script" stuff that tells it what to do. My approach is to use a pair of XML files, one that documents the content of a DVD movie, along with links to files with replacement video, audio and subtitles, and one that is a sort of a movie-watching "stylesheet", that specifies how you want the player to handle various kinds of content. Rather than just allowing you to select an MPAA rating level, I'd like to allow you to specify what kinds of things you don't like, what degree you'll accept, and how to deal with it when the movie exceeds those bounds. For example, should the player just fuzz out the boobs, or skip the scene entirely? Or should it go into slow motion so you can watch every jiggle? The content script will also have to have some sort of a "relevance to plot" rating for each section, so that the stylesheet can specify different actions for stuff that matters.

    I'm also making the script engine pluggable because I see value in other kinds of scripts. For example, with a more procedural type of script you could string together snippets of video from one or more DVDs, interspersing other bits of video, splashing words or other images over the top, etc., to make collages, artwork, etc.

    There seem to be a lot of people questioning whether or not any of this is useful, and I've run into a suprising amount of opposition when I talk to people about it. Here are some uses:

    • I buy lots of movies and my kids (ages 8, 6 and 4) watch lots of movies. I let them watch a fair number of PG and PG-13 movies, but I'm often a little uncomfortable with a few scenes. I often think "I wish I could just set my DVD player so that part would be skipped automatically." There are probably even some R-rated movies that I wouldn't mind my kids watching if they could be cleaned up a little. Right now, though, there are too many things that I'm not quite ready for them to learn.
    • There are a fair number of adults who for reasons of either religion or just sensitivity don't like to see certain kinds of content. For those people, the selection of movies is quite limited. In my case, my wife doesn't watch R and a lot of PG-13 movies for religious reasons. Since I really only watch movies with her, that means *my* selection is also limited (note that this is the biggest reason I'm hacking on Xine -- so that I can watch more movies with my wife).
    • If a teacher wants to show a movie to kids in public schools, there is something in nearly any movie that will offend someone, who will tell their parents, which will get the teacher in trouble, etc. This is a solution.
    • Artistic edits, as I mentioned above.
    • Anything else you can think of... For example, another buddy joked that he wanted a stylesheet that showed *only* the offensive parts and skipped all the rest.

    To me, this is about freedom of choice. I like to watch movies, but I may or may not want to watch them in exactly the way Hollywood makes them. This is really going to piss off directors who will feel that the "artistic integrity" of their movies is damaged, but I'm interested in my own entertainment, not in their "artistic integrity", and since I'm paying them, I think it's my choice that matters. Others may be more interested in the message the director is trying to convey, and they're welcome to watch the thing in its entirety. Others may be interested in an easy way to create derivative artworks (until Fair Use is abolished, of course).

    I guess I'll abandon my vague ideas of productizing my work (I was quite enjoying the idea of people buying a DVD player and recieving a CD-ROM full of source to all of the GPL code that rus it, "Martha, what in hell is this crap" ;)), but if anyone is interested in helping me work on this, send me an e-mail.

    • Please do us all a favor and release your code now. I totally don't care what state it's in, what we need is the prior art so that nobody else can patent this stuff later and hit you with a suit when/if this takes off.

      Just tarball it and post it somewhere with a good timestamp on it. Please! Release a good version later, or not at all, but the sooner prior art simply exists, the better!
  • by SeanAhern ( 25764 ) on Wednesday November 14, 2001 @11:13AM (#2563797) Journal
    Is there anyone else who thinks that this has the possibility of killing the intended story? Or at least, killing how it was intended to be told?

    Movie directors and editors spend thousands of hours in the editing room, cutting a scene here, splicing one back in there, all in hopes of achieving the best story.

    Fast foward about a year, with this technology in place in all DVD players and VCRs. People are able to add and delete scenes at will. Yes, you've given choice to the people. Yes, you've made videos that were previously unwatchable in schools available for educational purposes.

    But there's a large chance that you may have destroyed the story as it was intended to be presented.

    I know this sounds like a fine hair to split. But we the Public pay these guys a heckuva lotta money precisely because they know how to tell a good story. Second guessing them is probably a bad idea.

    Just my two cents.
  • I bet they could add an option to *just* view the R portion of the movie. Skip that boring stuff, bring me the violence and gratuitous sex!
  • R -> PG-13 (Score:5, Interesting)

    by infiniti99 ( 219973 ) <justin@affinix.com> on Wednesday November 14, 2001 @11:33AM (#2563933) Homepage
    Converting from R to PG-13 results in the loss of nudity and language, but you'd probably keep all the same levels of violence. Roger Ebert [suntimes.com] rants about this all the time.

    From his Movie Answer-Man column on November 4th [suntimes.com]:
    The fundamental problem with the MPAA is that it avoids making any kind of common-sense evaluation of a film, and simply counts f-words and evaluates nudity. ''Waking Life,'' one of the most affirmative and challenging films I can imagine for smart teenagers, gets the R rating, while the thriller ''Domestic Disturbance,'' which shows a small child exposed to a murder, an incineration, the beating of his mother (leading to a miscarriage) and the beating of his father, after which the kid himself causes an electrocution, gets the PG-13--presumably because there is no nudity and the language stays below the cut-off point. What sane parent would prefer their teenager to see ''Domestic Disturbance'' rather than "Waking Life''?

    To me, this is absurdity. Parents cannot rely on these crap ratings. If you are truly concerned about your children/family, you need to watch the movie yourself beforehand and then make an honest judgement.
  • by Nicolas MONNET ( 4727 ) <nicoaltiva@gmail.c3.14om minus pi> on Wednesday November 14, 2001 @11:38AM (#2563964) Journal
    Source: ACLU Texas [aclutx.org] in file report.doc [aclutx.org] (Word doc)
    =========

    Banned and Challenged Books
    In Texas Public Schools

    Title: Puppies (Baby Animals)

    Author: Petty, Kate

    Synopsis: The book discusses how puppies are born and fed, and how they grow and communicate. Photographs are used to enhance the descriptions.

    School District: Columbia-Brazoria ISD, West Columbia

    Use: Library, Curriculumn, Wild Peach Elem.

    Reason: Profanity/Inappropriate language

    Result: Alternative book allowed

    Notes: Parent said text referred to female dog as "bitch"
    ======

    We need some kind of device to insert before the eyes of those vulnerable children, that would remove all curse words so that they are not exposed to the abomination of referring to a female dog as a "bitch".
  • AOTC (Score:3, Funny)

    by Ogerman ( 136333 ) on Wednesday November 14, 2001 @12:53PM (#2564491)
    Now all the kiddies will be able to watch Episode II without the gratuitous pr0n. In this version, Luke and Leia are delivered in a basket by an annoying talking stork.
  • by dschuetz ( 10924 ) <david@@@dasnet...org> on Wednesday November 14, 2001 @01:54PM (#2565136)
    But nobody does it.

    This was one of the big "cool features" promised way back when DVD was still being introduced. You'd be able to select different "versions" of a film, from a normal DVD player menu, and the player would pick-and-choose specific scenes automatically, and seamlessly (or just about so). The promise was to be able to have a single disc, with a single "super-duper-extra-beyond-director's-cut" version that you'd never, in practice, see. Then you select the "Theatrical Release" and see what you saw in the theater. Select the "Director's Cut" and see what the movie house didn't think would sell but all the rabid fans prefer. Select "TV" and see a cleaned-up version for TV. Select "Morman" and -- oh, nevermind.

    Of course, I've never seen this happen, except on one movie (Crash), which allowed you to pick an R or NC-17 version of the same film.

    I can think of MANY movies where I wish this feature was used. A good example is Blade Runner. There was the US theatrical release, there was a foreign release (with some additional, gorier footage), a later US release (basically the foreign release), a "Director's Cut" (with the unicorn in and the voice-over out), etc. Wouldn't it be great if you could get all those on a single disc? Or could mix-and-match? Gimme the director's cut, but WITH the narration. I won't even go into what you could do with Brazil (what, didn't the Criterion LD include three separate, complete, full-length cuts?)

    Personally, I'd like to see this for many "normal" movies, too. For example, I'd love to recommend "Wild Things" to my mom -- it's a great mindfuck movie. But the sex scenes would probably make her want to stop watching. So she's missing out on a terrific movie.

    And the worst of it is that all this capability already exists. The studios just don't want to do it.

    So, something like this project seems really cool, especially for people using their own DVD player software to drive their home theater screen. Someone else talked about "Fan Edits." This might even make a good argument for an additional "Fair Use" for DeCSS technology -- providing a value-added service for DVD owners that the studios don't feel like doing.

    DVD had such great promise, but very rarely do the studios actually deliver on those promises. How many movies nowadays come with alternate language tracks? With OBSCURE alternate languages? With decent subtitle selection? Now, how many come with "making of" featurettes, stupid storyboard-to-final "worksthops", or animated menus? Which delivers better value to the end user? Which is cheaper to produce?

    gah. I gotta find something useful to do...

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