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Hacker U. 177

Posted by michael from the mortarboards-and-motherboards dept.
Karma 50 writes: "What is claimed to be the world's first school for "hackers" has recently opened in Paris. Run by the magazine hackerz voice, for $60 or so you will be taught the fine art of breaking into systems. Google will do some translation of the course details. The local police are said to be "watching the school with interest"."
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Hacker U. More

Hacker U.

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  • I'm guessing the US as well as other counties will see it as a "threat"

    Fp?
    • yeah, its quite funny and sad that its come to the point where this is legal in frnce but in the US it would be shut down quicker than you can say 'got root' .. when i first read this i laughed out loud, realizing that the police couldnt really do anything until a system was actually compromised or something -- then i realized this was in france (where the notion of civil liberties is, in general, much more deprecated than it is here) and was quite impressed by the fact that the same standard applied there -- and then i realized that in the US, the DMCA makes this illegal now (spreading tools to circumvent security).
      quite a sad state of affairs when the french have more liberties than we do.
    • I'm not sure about US schools, but Canadian universites and colleges have classes on Computer security, including those that moreless teach how to compromise systems, or should I say, how to test your own systems for security holes.

  • hahah! (Score:5, Funny)

    by jooniqzb1tch ( 246498 ) <3etds80yid002@sneakemail.com> on Sunday December 02, 2001 @07:09AM (#2643354) Homepage
    this must be some kind of a joke ..
    I wonder how it made it to a /. story. How can you pretend to be a serious 'hacking school' when your homepage uses l33t sp34k and states that the 'school' itself has a black pirate flag pirate flag on the front and graffiti inside ?
    it all becomes clear when you look at the intended audience : http://www.dmpfrance.com/zh05.JPG 31337 isn't it :)

    • Re:hahah! (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I'm french, and I can tell you this school is nothing but shit.
      I saw a news on french TV about this school, and I was sad to see that some "serious people" thought it was hacking.

      Want to know their level ? They made an "introduction to linux" ... What they do is using nmap or nessus, nothing else.It's just a script kiddie school...

      French people are not stupid, there are stupid people everywhere, please don't take care of these script kiddies.
      • ...just a script kiddie school...

        *shudder* just a script kiddie school? That scares the willies out of me. As if the "naturally occurring" script kiddies weren't enough, now we need schools to pump them out assembly line style!? I've got these visions of a school full of 12-18 year old script kiddy paramilitaries in nazi-esque uniforms. The "Script kiddy youth" as it were...

        Will these students be able to come back for second or third year programs? Year 2: Intro to DDoS? Year 3: Application of DDoS theory? I don't even want to think about it!

        This isn't just a school! It's a central command! The script kiddies are organizing!
        • I get the sarcasm and cynicism all over this thread, but I think perhaps this "joke" has purpose.

          The French, according to my limited understanding, have some pretty restrictive laws against crypto and hacking. I've been told by a friend who is french that the government is beginning to understand that these laws are perhaps a bit draconian, but that they have not yet been changed.

          This sort of thing is perhaps a good test of liberty in France? In spite of the silliness?

    • Fremch l33t sp34k? I'm not so sure it has the same flare.

      Bonjourez. Nous sommez l33t. Essayez de nous entaillerez.
      • In defense of the French and their accents:

        "You don't frighten us, English pig-dogs! ---Go and boil your bottoms, sons of a silly person. I blow my nose at you, so-called Arthur-king, you and all your silly English knnnniggets. Thppppt!"
    • Simple. It's not a hacker school. It's a H@@xorz sk001.
    • They're French! Give 'em a break, they can't help it! ;) -Jack
    • So, this place is essentially the Frogwarts School of Wizardry? [tuxedo.org]

      I know, I know. Mod me down. I had to say it.

  • There is something like that in russia already... (Score:4, Informative)

    by svara ( 467664 ) on Sunday December 02, 2001 @07:10AM (#2643358)
    Here. [landfield.com]

  • Lame (Score:5, Informative)

    by AdamInParadise ( 257888 ) on Sunday December 02, 2001 @07:11AM (#2643360) Homepage
    I heard about that on national TV. It's just lame.

    HackerZvoice is just a crappy "magazine", 20 pages long. It contains usefull tips like "How to bypass the Windows 98 password in 30 seconds" or "How to mount an publicly shared NFS drive remotely and feel 3l33t".

    It makes me ashamed to live in France. Hopefully we don't have the DMCA over here...

    • Re:Lame (Score:2, Informative)

      by elem ( 411711 )
      The magazine is quite funny... they have a pdf [dmpfrance.com] of the second edition on their site. Its full of gems like:

      Spoofing e-mail by telneting to an SMTP server
      Flooding servers by leaving 'ping -t' running

      and the rest of seems to be want ads where they can try and trade their DVD's and warez...

      They so want to be compared to something like 2600 [2600.com]
    • I totally agree. And when you see how they seek teachers, it's even more laughable.

      Subject: [ResEl] hackers wanted
      Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 20:48:44 +0200
      From: Ze Boss
      Salut,

      Voila une petite annonce qui pourrait intéresser certaines personnes parchez vous, par exemple les heureux vainqueurs du concours "tooshuss" de
      l'année dernière.Pourriez vous transmettre aux gens susceptibles d'etre intéressés ?
      Merci ! (c'est assez urgent.)

      Translation:

      Hello,
      Here's a small ad which could interest some people at your place, for example the happy winners of the contest " tooshuss " of last year . Could you transmit it to people likely to be interested? Thank you! (it is rather urgent.)

      And this "tooshuss" was really a lame contest. Just a flash game easy to crack...

      They really have to be losers for asking me to be a teacher. But if you still want to work for them :0 33 1 53 66 95 28 ou wanted@dmpfrance.com

  • haha! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 02, 2001 @07:20AM (#2643372)
    Send your script kiddie to obedience school!
    Bad script kiddy! BAD!

  • That school looks pathetic (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    What a joke. That school is nothing but a bunch of wannabe haXor script kiddies. All their classes are for newbies and I'm certain that's all they'll get - a bunch of 14 year old newbies.

    Yay! I want to take their $60 introduction to Linux class :-P pppft, if you're just learning linux now, maybe you'll be a hacker in 3-4 years. Being an elite haX0r isn't about taking a class, its about pushing yourself to learn crazy computer stuff that normal people wouldn't have the motivation to do.
    • "Being an elite haX0r isn't about taking a class, its about pushing yourself to learn crazy computer stuff that normal people wouldn't have the motivation to do.


      "Learning" linux won't help you become a hacker(well since many servers run linux knowing some basic comands might help) and I suppose you mean being a black hat. What kind of crazy computer stuff do you have to learn? Maybe some C syntax or asm, java, whatever. And jesus christ what does the world have against 14 year olds :P

  • H4x0r what? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by marvin tph ( 462349 )
    Here we also have schools where people learn basic system intrusion techniques and run around acting "l33t". They're called high schools.

  • Cyberarmy Is A Hacker Army Of One (Score:4, Interesting)

    by cybrpnk ( 94636 ) on Sunday December 02, 2001 @07:22AM (#2643381)
    CyberArmy [cyberarmy.com] is a similar outfit for the training and promotion of hacking knowledge. From their homepage:

    Welcome to CyberArmy - an independant army / union of over 50,000 Internet users, fighting for a free and independant internet. We need more recruits, so join the CyberArmy now! With our online promotional system you can gain officer status in the CyberArmy and take more part in mission proposals, missions, and division commands. Over the following months, we will be focussing our efforts against governmental controls over the net. To re-state the philosophy of the CyberArmy:

    CyberArmy is a group of netizens who believe in a deregulated Internet, which is free from external control. We believe in providing tools to assist others who believe in a free Internet - we support Open Source. We campaign against those who abuse the free nature of the Internet. We believe that spammers, child pornographers, web based scammers, and malicious hackers are enemies of the Internet. We believe that the Internet can be self-regulated, and that we, as equipped and knowledgable netizens, can control and suppress abusers of the Internet, with legal methods, by consolidating together as a united CyberArmy.

    • Lame (Score:1)

      by Pope ( 17780 )
      The internet was never "free and independent" (watch that spelling!) from the start, so you're running under false assumptions.
      • I'll pass on the misspelling...good catch. I agree the internet was never free and independent...but at least it should be (speech, not beer).

  • Maybe it's only me, but I don't see this "school" giving real hackers a good name.If anything, it'll validate the notion that hackers are malicious losers.


    On another note, if this school is shut down, I am sure that the readers of Slashdot won't mind, while if it was in America and was shut down, people would be crying: "America is evil! Burn it! Save the Taliban!" Seriously, people [thefreeworld.net] would be taken more seriously if they didn't act as if America was the evil Babylon while condoning the governments of China, Cuba, Saudi Arabia, and of course, the Taliban.

    • Hackers already have a school. Its called University and Computer Science. I would call that Scr1pt k1dd13 school.
  • Do they teach you how to get first post?!
  • "The local police are said to be "watching the school with interest"."
    Right on! That means when you graduate you get two pieces of paper: A diploma and an arrest warrent! Better strip out of those robes before the court date. Don't want the judge to think you are trying to impersonate him or anything.

  • Nooo, please no! (Score:5, Informative)

    by Nicolas MONNET ( 4727 ) <nicoaltiva@gmai l . c om> on Sunday December 02, 2001 @07:29AM (#2643394) Journal
    Why the fuck does this appear on /.? EVERYBODY with half a clue in computer stuff laughed at these guys here in France, and cursed the journalists who gave this losers such exposure.

    They are just a bunch of lame'o script kiddies wannabe.

    Just to give you an idea of their stupidity, their publication (Hacker'Z voice) has been repeatedly caught publishing others' articles (see for example this article [linuxfr.org] at linuxfr.org) calling it their own work.

    The most striking example of their kiddie-ness is probably their spelling (both in French and English); I know, I know, flaming someone on spelling isn't exactly glorious, but when the ratio goes above one spelling error per word (and I'm not making this up), you've seriously got to wonder.

    Oh, but wait! They're even more sorry fucks than you'd think. Look at their über-zekure registration form [dmpfrance.com] for their university: yoohoo, ACTION="mailto:...". Those guys can't even get fucked to install SSL!

    Couple links for completeness:

    Hacker Z Voice site [multimania.com]

    Hacker U site [dmpfrance.com]
    • From their site [dmpfrance.com]:

      "The courses are spread into three different difficulty levels:
      - NEWBIE (sic)) for newbies
      - WILD (sic) for middle level
      - INTRUSION for the élite"
      ...

      Somewhere else:
      INTRUSION: courses to be available alter
      ...

      They're hiring [dmpfrance.com] ... for their INTRUSION and WILD classes, I guess, they've got plenty of teachers for NEWBIE level already I guess.
    • The most striking example of their kiddie-ness is probably their spelling (both in French and English);

      My God! Taco is really a Kiddie!

      I know, I know, flaming someone on spelling isn't exactly glorious, but when the ratio goes above one spelling error per word (and I'm not making this up), you've seriously got to wonder.

      Naw, it's just one of many ways to be a karma whore. :)
    • ACTION="mailto:...". Those guys can't even get fucked to install SSL!

      But that's okay, because ACTION="mailto:..." has an undefined behavior! If the form even can't work on the browser side, no sensitive data will be sent over the network unencrypted anyway! They are truly l33t! =)

  • They're teaching the fine art of "hacking", which is according to them, "breaking into systems". The true term for that is "cracking", and if they don't know the proper name of what they are teaching, how can anyone possibly take them seriously about the content they are teaching?

    Also, I would think that "the fine art of hacking" would cost more to learn than a mere $60.
    • Cost of lame 'haXor' course - $60 Cost of internet connection - Free Look on video feed of security experts face when he sees his systems been hacked - Priceless
    • The true term for that is "cracking"

      Yes, if you happen to buy ESR's ridiculous revisionist history. Words are defined by the way they're used. When people say "hacker" they probably mean someone who breaks into computers. Up until ESR's campaign "cracker" meant someone who broke software copy protection.

      The fact that people would like the word hacker to mean a certain thing doesn't mean it will.
      • "[...] Words are defined by the way they're used. When people say "hacker" they probably mean someone who breaks into computers. Up until ESR's campaign "cracker" meant someone who broke software copy protection."

        I disagree. When I say hacker I mean hacker, if I say cracker I mean cracker. I don't mind people using words incorrectly, everybody does (according the definitions I happen to use, which change over time). Language is just part of communication, and the differences in usage often mean something to me, and tell me something about the source and/or sender (in this case, the 'school' and slashdot editor involved). And since I'm using these words in this way, like you said, I define them.
        And I think even less people are aware of any 'ESR campaign', if there ever was one. OK, there might have been one :)

        "The fact that people would like the word hacker to mean a certain thing doesn't mean it will."

        Yes, to some it will. Words I use mean what I want them to mean. In a different context however, words might be interpreted differently (and if I suspect that, I just act accordingly).
        It's like saying: I drive to work with my old car, or by 1.8 GT 12V (only both correct this time).

        Another suggestion (posted below by another user) doesn't work for me either: Picking up a US dictionary?
        I thought the Internet is worldwide. I don't live in the US, and english isn't my first language (but I treat 1, 3 and 4 the same way). I don't give a dictionary (company?) that much credit to let them decide on the way I'm using words, thank you. You use a dictionary in case you don't know a meaning, not if you do.
    • The true term for that is "cracking"

      Actually.. isn't this why we have dictionaries? Consulting a US dictionary gives us:

      "hacked, hacking, hacks
      v. tr.
      ...
      3. b. To gain access to (a computer file or network) illegally or without authorization: hacked the firm's personnel database. "       (The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition)

      It is about time people give up what they think is right usage and give in to popular usage.

      • "It is about time people give up what they think is right usage and give in to popular usage."

        It looks like use of the term "cracker" is *starting* to come into popular speech. I caught that TV show "Mutant X" (sort of a pseudo-X-Men, but not as smart) actually use the term "cracker" for someone that breaks into computers. Not much, but it's a start.

        Now if Andromeda would've actually used the term "kluge" correctly . . .
    • They're teaching the fine art of "hacking", which is according to them, "breaking into systems". The true term for that is "cracking", and if they don't know the proper name of what they are teaching, how can anyone possibly take them seriously about the content they are teaching?

      Man, these French l33t kiddies sure know how to troll - and you bit the bait.

      How do you enrage a bunch of hackers? Call crackers "hackers" or cracking "hacking". Soon, thousands of hackers will (more or less sensitively) correct you.

      That's the oldest trick in the book!

      Also, I would think that "the fine art of hacking" would cost more to learn than a mere $60.

      Yep, if I'd hire a security consultant, this would not be a place where I'd start looking from...

  • Hacking School is malicious (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Lewisham ( 239493 ) on Sunday December 02, 2001 @07:36AM (#2643400)
    Hacking is a Good Thing. It teaches skills and leads to important security holes being filled. By learning about these holes, everyone benefits with the joys of greater knowledge (wooo! Alturistic :) ) But there are already places where you can learn hacking. They call themselves: Universities.

    A lot of courses (at least the ones I have seen) provide a foundation in how to hack, simply because it is the only way to make sure that any systems you create are secure, and tests new technology as well. For example, I've seen two Universites here in the UK that do this. At the University of Bristol, they are researching into how to hack smart chips, whilst University of Nottingham let you try and hack their network. Of course, this is all built into a well-rounded course teaching students Computer Science.

    Where does that leave the idea of "hacking schools"? It puts them quite definitely in the malicious camp. If these people were hacking to increase their skills, they would be taught other things at the same time (ala University). But this "school" is starting people out with hacking, and giving a few lessons in C and Linux for those that don't know. It's not about being a better computer user, it's about being a better hacker, which can only be used for the more nefarious of purposes.
  • It almost perfectly imitates the way that supposedly "french" people talk in English-speaking movies and series such as Cafe Rene [coldcut.com].

    Not necessarliy a good thing though. I've seen that series.

  • They've assembled C! (Score:3, Funny)

    by Alsee ( 515537 ) on Sunday December 02, 2001 @07:42AM (#2643406) Homepage
    On the bottom of this page [google.com] you'll find the following text:

    Last news, special a Newbie course "Language C" has been just assembled.

    You gotta love automated language translation!
    Hmm, wait a minute - a non-techie english speaker might write the same thing, lol.

    -
  • Bleh - im tired of hearing the word 'Hacker' being used the wrong way - and you all probably know what i mean by that.

    What they do - it seems - at this school is just teaching security issues the other way around. There are tons of private institutions and public universities that teach computer security but they dont call it hacking. Hacking/cracking are buzzwords at the moment and therefore it might make a crappy institution seem cooler.. Though i doubt any "real" hacker/cracker would attend to that school. They already learned whatever they might teach over there from publicly aviable info on the internet. In My Opinion that's the way you should learn security issues aswell.

    I find it doubtful that anyone would turn into a hacker pro just by paying $60 for a few courses in hacking - its like saying an MSCE is a guru ;)

    --H
    • Bleh - im tired of hearing the word 'Hacker' being used the wrong way - and you all probably know what i mean by that.

      Language is defined by the way it is used, not by the personal desires of various factions.

  • Not to point out the obvious... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jurros ( 110198 ) on Sunday December 02, 2001 @08:02AM (#2643426)
    but this would be considered a Cracking school, not a Hacking school. A Hacking school would teach logic, problem solving, and finding unusual solutions to everyday problems. If we expect the public to differentiate the two, we have to lead by example.

    Furthermore, I find this article to be full of horrible and misleading information.

    At the end, they hope to have improved their "white hat" or good pirate - skills.
    Ok... What exactly is a 'good pirate'? For that matter, how does piracy (or hacking for that matter) even enter into this article.

    ...which teaches you, amongst other things, how to invent false credit card details and fiddle your mobile phone bills.
    Nevertheless, "Clad" is adamant that he teaches only ethical hacking skills.
    Umm... Yeah. Right. There are perfectly ethical reasons to do these things.

    "For me", he says, "it is enough to know I can break into a system, without crossing the line into illegality."
    Breaking into a system is illegal. Even if it's not in the country where you live, there is no way that it's ethical. But at least the article presents a consenting view on this.

    Hacking is illegal.
    That's like saying thinking is illegal.

    "I teach them ethical values," Clad Strife told me. "It's not my responsibility if they use my information to do something illegal at home.
    I disagree. If you teach a trade that is very likely to be used for malice, it is your responsibility to make sure that you teach it to people who will not misuse it. For example, in the U.S. military, there are weeks of training in which discipline is taught. We don't just give anyone machine guns and send them off. If you were teaching bomb making to your neighbors, you would be a bit more caring to make sure that they behave responsible!

    "[Cracking] is not fundamentally illegal. After all, when you're driving a car, you can knock someone over and kill them, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be allowed to have driving lessons, does it?"
    Umm... No. Your argument does not hold up. Using the logic in reverse you see the flaws. "Hitting people with cars is not fundamentally illegal. After all, when you surf the internet, you might break into someone's computer. But that doesn't mean that people shouldn't be taught to use the computer, does it?" That's just rediculous.

    ...if you want to pay by credit card, do it over the phone.
    Anyone sending these KIDS their credit card numbers has more to worry about than whether the internet or phone is more secure.

    As the school's website says, paying over the internet isn't secure.
    Yeah. You wouldn't want the wrong people to have your credit card number! ROFLMAO.
    • > but this would be considered a Cracking school,
      > not a Hacking school.

      Sounds more to me like it's going to be a skr1p7-k1dd13 sk001. Do you really think the implications, and exploitation, of buffer overflows and IP spoofing can be tought in a short course? I suppose they could have a list of prerequisites...

      More likely they're teaching things like how to get an IP from a domain name and how to get and use the latest skr1p7z.
    • Actually, you're very wrong. The article uses the term "hacker" to describe someone who breaks into systems correctly. It's changed use to reflect "programmers" (that is, coders, as they used to be called) is a more recent usage, popularized by Slashdot, but NOT the original usage (and don't quote ESR to me, go back to 1971 and look at the word's use on ARPANET).

      A cracker was traditionally someone who cracked passwords, not computers. Crackers were a subset of hackers. There was an excellent essay in 2600 Magazine about this some time back. Nonetheless, people here on Slashdot have obfuscated the meaning of this word beyond recognition.

      I'm sure I'll be modded down and check back in an hour to 30 replies telling me I'm wrong...yay Slashdot.
  • As the school's website says, paying over the internet isn't secure.

    Those hackers dont know about SSL? (-;
    • Paying with a credit card anywhere is not secure. I think the greatest thing that can come to credit cards are the type that you put a certain amount on, spend it, and then throw it away. Credit card numbers are easy to get by a 16 year old. All you have to do, go out get a job at a grocery store as a cashier. Bring a pen and paper with you and prep your short term memory for remembering 20 digits and a name.

      Using a credit card requires a good deal of trust no matter where you use it. If something is encrypted over a network, it still has to be decrypted someplace else where a person, on the inside, could get to it. Most companies, though, when this is demonstrated to them disregard the warnings because they trust their people on the inside.
      • Nothing is secure.. But! you can you can make it as secure as possible, its not like your transmitting clear text, have your database open to the Internet (google btw catalogs database gui html sites, nice way to find open databases...), the employees are thiefs, the company isnt reputable.

        At work we spend millions on security and secure ecommerce e-wallet support, I know of only 2 ways to hack it, and you need root access on the box. If you have root on the box, your broke through many firewalls, software firewalls, tcp wrappers, encrypted file systems, software security alarms, hardend o/s, etc... Its not like we left telnetd open with guest/guest account enabled.

        Washington state senators are even trying to pass identity theft laws that change the time that credit card holders have to report theft charges. Currently its at the time it happens, not the time the card holder notices it.

        BTW, check fraud is much larger than CC fraud.
        • I agree with you completely in what you said. The company I work for spends millions as well to make their systems secure. There is a good analogy though, when a network has many pieces and complex connections, the easier it is to exploit. In the same way, a complex business is a lot easier to exploit.

  • Comparisons (Score:2, Insightful)

    by not-quite-rite ( 232445 )
    This school of H4X0Rs is to legit hacking what icyhotstuntaz are to legit rap.

    See the comparison for yourself:
    http://stuntaz.cjb.net/

    Better yet, don't. Just forget about it....

  • It ain't the first course by a long way (Score:3, Informative)

    by Zeinfeld ( 263942 ) on Sunday December 02, 2001 @08:36AM (#2643454) Homepage
    SecureIT (now owned by VeriSign) had a hacker course out four years ago. Only it was a 2 day course and cost about $1500. It was to train sysops in the techniques they would face.

    The french course appears to be aimed at crackers rather than legitimate white hat hackers. I doubt it will last long at that price, the first true crackers who attend the course will rip off the material.

    Before too long the dweebs will come to the same realisation that the l0pht did, that there is much more money to be made on the enterprise side. They will then get VC, set up a carbon copy of @stake and start wearing suits according to Zeinfeld's law: security consultants who are ex-NSA or MI5 wear jeans and a T shirt, security consultants who are ex-hackers wear suits.

    • I imagine the SecureIT and @stake classes are a lot better too. ;)

      I teach MCSE classes (quit laughing) and I get asked about password crackers and other stuff all the time. It amazes me that many full time admins have little or no clue about security. Forget the tough stuff like encryption, firewalls, or VPNs, they don't even understand password complexity and dictionary attacks.
      • Surprises you, eh? Come do my job for awhile... I work in the IT department, i'll leave the company unnamed, our info sec guys try to tell me crap like user's cannot have their telnet client open for me to reset their password on our unix boxes. Apparently our unix boxes are psychic and know when a user is going to attempt to log in shortly (would that make them psychix?). 2 days after wep encyption was cracked, the boneheads here decided it would be a great idea to install a wlan in my building... now this building constantly has passwords being sent through the network for every single progarm in the company, anyone who gets them can make anyone owe or be owed as much money as they want, get access to unused cc #'s, etc, and our idiots decide this would be a good place to test a recently proven insecure network setup... stupid. I could go on and on about the stupidity of these guys that are keeping our network "secure" and their lack of knowledge of how any of these systems work.
        ---
  • What is claimed to be the world's first school for "hackers" has recently opened in Paris.

    If that was true it would be great, since we already have schools [microsoft.com] against hackers.

    Oh, wait. The article was about a school for crackers
  • This is just great. Anyone who has read Hackerz V0ice once knows they are just a bunch of lamerz who think they are the master of the Internet just because they know how to use Back Orrifice.

    Hackerz V0ice (the magazine) is a piece of crap explaining how to use 3 years old "exploits" (hear : "windows trojans") in s0M Scr1Pt K1dY l4n64g3 50 FuL of M15T4kz I have to re-read sentences twice to understand what they mean.

    The best part is that they think the represent the french "kackerz" (as if these guys were hackers) and advise anyone to rally their "movment". They want to be the french CCC, but they are just another group of computer illeterates who are trying to make money out of the Lin00X/Int3rn3T/conspir4Cy/"Micr0S0ft Sux" trend.

    To bad only french sites talk about this magazine, you'll have to use babelfish, but *please* have a look at :
    - http://www.kitetoa.com/_disc1/showthread.php3?thre adid=22
    - news:fr.comp.securite
  • Well, as others said, you're not going to learn how to hack in a week for $60. But it can be taught.

    My university [iastate.edu] actually does teach classes on hacking, or as they call it 'information warfare [iastate.edu]'. Not 'security' mind you, 'warfare'. Of course, it's a grad program... you'll need a degree before you can even take it...
    • If I remember right, they teach some basic stuff in some of their early unix classes, too, don't they (it might be indian hills college I'm thinking of, just south of ia state)? I believe they write a little login program that records the password somewhere then logs the user in, and some stuff along those lines to show what can be done with some basic knowledge (assuming file persmissions on the server are retarded and let you over-write important files of course).
      --
  • It is in essance a great thing that there is a school for hacking where you can pay to learn. The problem is that this might cause more problems for computer users because in so many circles the word "Hacker" is such a touchy subject already. Isn't it possible that creating a school is going to increase already tightening regulations?
    • I don't think it would be a problem if the school were worth a damn as word would get around as to what it really teaches and they would be careful not to be doing anything that would add to the bad name of hackers... This school in particular, of course, is, as has been said many times allready, a bunch of jerk-offs who don't know a damned thing except how to use back-orifice and various other script kiddy toys.
      --
  • We have been teaching cracking as part of our computer forensics course for 2 years now. At first the FBI used to come along but now they have set up their own courses so I know that there are courses running in the US as well. The only diffence is this one lets anyone and his dog join in whereas we only accept police and customs agencies.
  • Surely, if we can overlook the obvious sillines of the whole thing (and lets remember that people read slashdot and laugh at *us* too), this is something that can only help to improve security in the long run?

    Nobody denies that security through obscurity is a flawed concept.. so surely the more kids out there who know how to stress test a computers security, the more we are going to see systems made more secure.

    Given how much free information is available on the web anyway, and how easy it is to get involved in those "elite" hacking groups, this "school" isn't doing anything more than making it a little bit easier for the lads whilst taking some of the load off their wallets.

  • They'll probably have their site /'ed, and then they'll cite it as an example of a super sophisticated DDOS attack

    watch that server go up in smoke, just by coincidence.

    Given the french law, which does have a tendency to be draconian, and given the recent change in the security environment, it might have been safer to open a school for aspiring criminals, or something.

  • I gaurantee this hacking school will attract a lot of genuine soon-to-be kiddies and nothing but negative exposure for the school itself. As everyone here is saying, they seem to be teaching more of a cracking style than hacking or security. I would seek out a more reputable source of education if I wanted to learn more than "the fine art of breaking into systems". Security education at @stake [atstake.com] just doesn't compare to the quality you get at Xintra [xintrausa.com]. You're not going to go to fast-food for gourmet.
  • While they still won't know how to flip the power switch, they'll know how to jam something metal into it so they can be uber-l33t (didja know your computer was located the upper left corner of that glowing thing you're sitting on?) when they realize that thick cord popping out of their 'puter is supposed to be connected to the wall.
  • The real hackers don't need the school of course, they'll poke and prod and palpitate systems and software to learn far more than any school could ever teach. Most I/S people, even those in charge of security, aren't hackers though. They've taken MCSE, RHCE or other vendor specific training and have a mediocre background in computer science.


    They're also usually the most draconian people when it comes to security, even though the security measures they impose usually are of questionable value. The running joke at the company where I work is that I/S will finally be happy with security when they've taken away our keyboards. Their own systems will be have modems with the telephone number on a piece of tape outside their office and no root or admin password.


    At least with a crash course they'll learn to see what the real problems are and why its a good idea to keep a positive rapport with those in the companies who are hackers.

    • You know.. I used to think that.
      But I have yet to see one, single security-minded 'hacker' tackle a real sysadmin job and do it any differently than those he previously lambasted for being 'dumb'.

  • Follow up (Score:2, Informative)

    by Karma 50 ( 538274 )
    Of course, it isn't really the world's first.
    A quick search after submitting the story turned up these articles

  • Will they have a basic spelling course?

    Why do I get the feeling that all my friends would laugh at me if I pursued an education at Hacker U?

    -Legion

  • the "University of Copulation" otherwise know as...

    FSCK U.

    (insert rimshot)
  • Granted, this may not be the ideal group to be doing this, but I dont think there's anything necessarily wrong with a hack school. I, for example, am not a hacker. I am very good with computers, I've been using them all my life, but I couldnt hack to save my life. Is it because I havent spent enough time working with computers? I doubt it. With most computer things, I can just see what I'm doing, and it's easy, but I simply dont understand hacking. It is still a skill I would find invaluable, as I intend to move into network security as my field of work. I would love to be able to sign up for some classes on hacking, taught by hackers. While these guys may not be the people we want to do it, the idea seems fine with me. As far as concern about script kiddies and the like... they dont need a class to be able to do what they do. That's the whole idea behind their title. They can already just point and click, so why would they bother with a hacking class? Even if they did take it, what are the odds that such people would actually pick up anything? They tend to be the more lazy among us, so I seriously doubt they would go wholeheartedly into the class.
    • well, i believe the reason they need a class is A) most people are complete, worthless, retards with an iq of about 10. and B) they aren't neccesarily tryign to "hack" the lazy way. Most probably don't even realize they are script kiddies, what with how media portrays hackers and how most "hacking" websites are, many of them probably think they really are hacking and doing something that takes a lot of knowledge because from day 1 they've been told they are and haven't managed to be told differently yet.
      --
  • call it cracking.

    Sorry if there's a zero-body post, but I hit
    the return button while still in Subject line.

    It's called cracking, and not hacking, for
    certain reasons which all are outlined in the
    Jargon file at http://www.ccil.org/jargon/
    and for which its author has my full ACK.
  • The local police are said to be "watching the school with interest"." Certainly they will be, but if they do so because they fear that from this school illegal activity will result, they are doing it for exactly the wrong reasons.

    The simple fact is, cutting edge security training is valuable, whether or not it is taken from a hacker's perspective or that of someone who wants to keep hackers out. A System Administrator could glean a lot of good information by attending Hacker's school: "Know thine enemy" applies here in a very big way. If you learn how to find a security breach in order to hack into a system, you can find the same breach and fix it: if you know how to hack, and understand the techniques involved, it becomes a lot easier to defend against those techniques.

  • http://www.uact.edu/ has a Net Defense program.

  • Spot the Snob (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    What`s much funnier than this course are the snobbish comments coming from many Slashdot posters. Almost all attacks on systems come from so called script kiddies i.e. someone who didn`t work out the security flaw themselves. How many Slashdot posters have actually broken into a system without using some prior knowledge gleaned from another programmer - if it`s one percent I`d be more than surprised.

    • How many Slashdot posters have actually broken into a system without using some prior knowledge gleaned from another programmer - if it`s one percent I`d be more than surprised.


      How many Slashdot posters are actually breaking into systems? Not many. It's not "security experts" vs. "script kiddies", it's "everybody" vs. "script kiddiees"

  • I think "Universities" like these are a great idea. Finally, a place to teach people the hard way not to be stupid!

    Its like those Smart Pills you find on the ground in the woods. You know, the ones which turn out to be rabbit poop?
  • Wait a sec. how do they do l33t speak in french... half the characters used it l33t speak for vowels are just accented french letters... So the words aren't gunna look much different
  • So anyone who's read much Slashdot knows that lots of folks get worked up over the distinction between the words "hacker" and "cracker". My question: Is this and English language only thing? Do any other languages have 2 words and constant debate over which means what? If so, do any of the automated translation engines get it right?
  • is the best $60 I ever spend. If you got 60 dollars in your pocket go to Handsome Boy Modeling School. If it wasn't for Prince Paul and Automator I'd be modelling in Albania or some Balkan country, still.
  • Ok, maby its just a language thing. I'm not french, so I don't know. But come on, "Clad Strife"? What's with that?

    • Re:Clad (Score:1)

      by ret ( 540433 )
      As it said in that article about the "school", it is taken from the character of a psx game.
      --

  • There is a new French Language school opening. For $60.00 they will teach you the meaning of phrases like "me casa es su casa", and how to count, such as "Uno, Dos, Tres ...". When you finish it you will have learned the fine art of speaking French.

    In other words ... Hacking is != Cracking any more than French == Spanish. Just as some hackers are also crackers, but most are script kiddies, some people who speak French also speak Spanish, but most do not. Try breaking into a computer system with duct tape if you think hacks automagically apply to cracking. (That was English I just used there by the way, which you can also learn in my new Sanskrit course ;^} )
  • Many companies have offered hacker training classes for ages now. At the moment, Ernst & Young, Foundstone, Global Knowledge and many other companies offer classes that will teach you how to break into systems.
  • these guys are completely lame. they make it seem that they can break into any system. want my IP guys? please no packet bombs.

    weren't these types called kidhacks in the early eighties when BBS's were popular?

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