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Nick Cancelling Invader Zim 240

Posted by CmdrTaco from the why-does-all-the-best-tv-get-cancelled dept.
orn writes "Lots of my slashdotting friends turned me on to Invader Zim not so long ago. Well, aintitcool.com is reporting that the show is being cancelled." Now that really sucks. Zim was absolute genius in terms of art, use of CG, and just flat out hilarious writing. I'll miss this one a lot.
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Nick Cancelling Invader Zim More

Nick Cancelling Invader Zim

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  • Not the sort of thing that belongs on kid TV. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Starship Trooper ( 523907 ) on Sunday January 20, 2002 @04:13PM (#2873364) Homepage Journal
    Don't get me wrong, I absolutely loved the show, but I always felt uncomfortable about its placement on Nickelodeon, a kid's network if there ever was one. The show's content, much like the class "Ren and Stimpy" episodes back from when Jim K. still had control of the show, is just too subversive for little kids. The show is more akin to things like "Family Guy" and "South Park" than it is to "Wild Thornberries" or whatever inane kiddie trash Klasky-Csupo is barfing over Nickelodeon these days. Hopefully the show will find a new, better home on Comedy Central or another such station where it would be a much better fit.
    • Hopefully the show will find a new, better home on Comedy Central or another such station where it would be a much better fit.

      How about FOX? They host great shows.

    • Too subversive for kids? Are you kidding me? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Fantastic Lad ( 198284 ) on Sunday January 20, 2002 @05:38PM (#2873702)
      The whole point of subversiveness is to open eyes. What's wrong with kids considering the flip-side to the Disney lie which fills nearly all other programming? Even you refered to Nickelodeon's normal children's schedule as "inane kiddie trash".

      How is ZIM any worse than, say, MAD Magazine?

      Having ZIM around would have made my school years far more endurable. "My GOD! It's not just me! Somebody else out there also sees that nearly all the people populating this school are dangerous, immature, socially retarded, materialist, petty morons! Whew! I was beginning to think there really WAS something wrong with me like everybody keeps saying!"

      I guess the only thing that bothers me about ZIM is that it utterly condemns humanity; while ZIM does actively attempt to expose the everyday bullshit we must live with in this world, watching would lead one to think that there isn't anything good or worthwhile out there at all, which is completely false.

      Rather than cancel ZIM, I'd prefer to see it stay on while infusing Nick's programming with shows which carry underlying messages which promote honor and noble living. I seem to recall things like, "G-Force" having a positive effect on me as a kid. I'd suggest the promotion of stuff like "Sailor Moon" if it wasn't for the weird sexuality of it, and the whole bit about girls being tough and capable, but only so long as the strong male lead can rescue them on a regular basis. What shit.

      And "Pokemon" is basically just, "Cock-Fighting for Kids."

      Now THAT'S creepy.


      -Fantastic Lad

      • > How is ZIM any worse than, say, MAD Magazine?

        I haven't seen ZIM, but Mad, in its original form, was a Harvey Kurtzman showcase. The content back then was largely too complex for kids.

        The Kurtzman/Elder/Krigstein parody of George McManus' Bringing Up Father in Mad #17 is a good example -- it's a dark take on McManus' use of domesic violence as comedy.

        Kurtzman was pushed out of Mad after a couple of years, and his later magazine Help! was also Not For Kids; R. Crumb's Fritz the Cat pseudo-rape comic was published there, some of the first non-greeting-card stuff Crumb published. (Terry Gilliam also worked for Help.)

        And EC in general was really an adult comics line back then (Tales from the Crypt, etc.); the Comics Code Authority killed off all EC comics but Mad (which was billed as a magazine, and thus not for kids, because only kids read comics, right?), and Mad was steadily dumbed-down over the years to increase sales to kids. But back before the CCA dark times, EC almost a low-brow Fantagraphics, a tiny niche for grown-ups' comics.

        [sigh...]

        > The whole point of subversiveness is to open
        > eyes.

        Yeah, but it still needs to be aimed at kids to be really subversive. Otherwise it will just be disturbing; they won't understand what's being subverted. Crumb's How Snoids are Born (Snoid Comics, Kitchen Sink Press) is a glorious treatise on how dysfunction is passed down through generations, but I sure wouldn't give that comic to a kid (in the comic, the Snoid masturbates to thoughts of dismembered women; the droplets of jizz turn into little Snoids; the Snoid then shoos the offspring out the door with a broom, saying "Scoot! 'An don't let me see yer ugly faces around this neighborhood!"). A kid wouldn't get that comic; hell, I'm expecting some AC flames from folks who don't get it. The target audience matters.
    • I don't know about the rest of the slashdot crowd, but when I was a child,I would not have been shocked / upset by any of the topics shown in Invader Zim.
      It was a strange day that I didn't imagine being a space invader, seeing/conquering strange new worlds, being "LORD OF ALL HUMANS!!!", etc... This sort of creative imagination is what enabled me to get THROUGH childhood.
      Zim's complete inability to circumvent authority coupled with his dogged determination to do just that, all while having to report to the the Tallest (which in my universe as a child would have been Mom and Dad) make this show identifiable to children. This sort of television isn't shocking to them, so why should we worry about it as adults?
      I know when I was that age, I absolutely LOVED Ren and Stimpy, for some of the same reasons (it wasn't syrupy sweet intelligence insulting blatant pacifism intended cartooning like most of the other cartoons on TV at the time; for example one of the other original nicktoons, Doug.)
    • just too subversive for little kids

      Yeah, we wouldn't want our kids thinking, now would we?

      C-X C-S

    • However, in your sentence I'd replace "subversive" with "scary". My four year old got nightmares after watching IZ. He didn't have a problem with any other cartoon on Nick.

      Zim may be a cartoon, but it really isn't for the daytime/early-evening crowd.

  • Hooray! (Score:2, Funny)

    by bonzoesc ( 155812 )
    I'm looking forward the wonderful* Klasky-Csupo show that they'll replace it with! Maybe it will be great** like that awesome*** show, Rugrats!

    * - dismal
    ** - extremely shitty
    *** - drawn-out, redundant, no good, very bad

    Nickelodeon is quickly becoming a channel that shows exactly four different shows: Rugrats, SpongeBob, that one show that had Burger King toys a while back, and another new show that takes everything TO THE EXTREME!! I'd rather they showed stuff like Zim, but then I remembered - that's what Cartoon Network is for! Fuck Nick. Show Zim on the channel that actually has quality TV like Cowboy Bebop!

    • Re:Hooray! (Score:3, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      That was a great post. I appreciate hearing your awesome insights and am certain that you have a wonderful chance of getting laid in the near future.
    • A lot of stuff on there is NOT quality, especially their DBZ crap and stuff like Zoids (they killed Reboot for THAT?!?).
      • Ssh! It's still better than nick. My rundown on CN anime:
        • DBZ - Bottom of the barrel diarhhea of anime
        • Zoids - Gundam knockoff, please shoot me now
        • Gundam * - It's a huge story arc, and if you miss an episode, you'll have the gun in your mouth because the rest won't make sens
        • Sailor Moon - OMG IT'S CRAZY COOL ON HAPPY CRACK FUN MEGA!
        • Cowboy Bebop - Quality.
        I don't know of any more - I get my Zim fix from 1337 filesharing.
  • It also seems that Nick is cancelling other shows [gopetition.com] as well, such as Spongebob Squarepants and Hey Arnold. At that site you can petition for the show not to be canceled. There are 1797 Signatures right now. Help out now!

    The http://slashdot.org/aintitcool.com link in the article is wrong. Use this [aintitcool.com] instead.
    • Excuse me, but why is Nickelodeon going to get rid of its best shows? (OK, so Hey Arnold is mush, but Spongebob is an excellent kids' show, and Invader Zim can be compared to anime.) They'd better have something REALLY BIG coming in for them to deprive kids of their favorite cartoons.

      Think of the CHILDREN, people, of the CHILDREN!

    • Pathetic. (Score:1, Flamebait)

      by Starship Trooper ( 523907 )
      That you all can take the time to petition for stupid TV shows to keep them from being cancelled, yet most of you can't seem to be arsed to write your representatives [house.gov] whenever terrible bills such as the PATRIOT act, DMCA, and SSSCA are in the process of being made into law. I would say our freedom is a bit more important than a stupid television show.
    • If the creators and producers of Spongebob Squarepants quit, Nickelodeon would kill them and bring them back as mind-altered gholas to continue the show. This is an extremely hot property for Nick and they'd do anything under heaven and earth to keep it (so long as it stays this popular).

      Invader Zim, on the other hand, does a lot to miss Nick's target audience and so has declining ratings, and... well, just isn't that impressive (IMHO).
      • Perhaps the ratings are declinging because Nick doesn't give it a fair chance?

        Like hm, Friday nights are a good time for it? Like hm, two scheduled Invader Zim marathons (which can help to BUILD fanbase) were cancelled with no notice? Like hm, moving the show half an hour without any real prior notice (oh say, like announcing it on the previous week's show)? Like hm, merchandice promised to be for sale from Hot Topic by Christmas STILL isn't available (where's my damn Gir Plushie?!?!)? (And BTW, while I don't have great respect for Hot Topic, as it's Goth Lite in most cases, who the HELL thought it would be a good idea to sell SPONGEBOB DORKPANTS there? Tell me how SBSP meets the Hot Topic demographic....).

        Rest assured, Nick has done everything they can to destroy the show.

    • I would sign it if it didn't mention Zim in the same petition as ZIM, seeing how Zim is in no way geared toward Nicks demographic.
      Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Zim, I just don't think a show that is that hostile towards children is appropriet for children under 12.
      I mean come on, he rips some childs eyes out in one episode.

  • Still 16 more episodes (Score:3, Interesting)

    by kenneth_martens ( 320269 ) on Sunday January 20, 2002 @04:17PM (#2873385)
    According to the article, it isn't being axed immediately--next season there will be only six episodes instead of 20, which means there will still be 16 more new episodes to wait for.

    However, it is still disappointing. I've only seen Invader Zim a couple times (my cable company doesn't carry that channel) but it was one of the best shows I've seen in a long time. Unfortunately, I believe Nickelodeon marketed it to the wrong audience: it should have been aimed at teenagers and adults. Most young children don't appreciate it enough.

    Perhaps if Invader Zim had been on another network, one that doesn't focus on children's entertainment, it would have fared better.

    • Ah, the first person in the thread who seems to have bothered to read the damn link. I salute you.

      There is no suggestion at all that the series will be cancelled in this report. To me, this only means that the show will be produced at a slower pace and that we'll probably get 6 good-to-great episodes instead of 16 so-so to good ones.

      I think a smaller handful of high-quaity shows is going to do more for the franchise at this point, when its still seeking an audience, than churning 'em out at the usual TV series pace for its (relatively) tiny pack of current followers.

      Why the panicky headline and report, though? It's not like Nick is a Big Network that must order 26 eps a season or shut a franchise down. Of course, we shouldn't forget the experience of John K... but ther is at yet no reason to see that pattern here.

  • Hopefully somebody else will pick it up. If not it's too bad, because I just started watching the show.
    • Nickelodeon owns the rights to Zim. That means the chances of it getting moved to another network is pretty slim. As it stands, I understand that most people have already been given notice of their last days with the Zim crew.

      I am so bummed =(

  • AintItCool.com? (Score:3, Funny)

    by tunah ( 530328 ) <samNO@SPAMkrayup.com> on Sunday January 20, 2002 @04:20PM (#2873396) Homepage
    AintItCool.com?

    NoItAint.com!

    • For those not aware of the history, AICN [aintitcool.com] is one of the net's oldest movie rumor sites. They have a style that grates on many (from crude reviews to rambling praise for odd cult films to strange animated graphics of the chubby leader of the cool news pack [aintitcool.com]).

      However, there has never been, as far as I know, a better site for finding out what's likely to be going on in the geek-film arena in the next six months to two years. It's where I found out that Lord of the Rings had gone to Peter Jackson. It's where I first heard that Lucas had recanted his early statements about making a third trillogy. They turned me on to such masterworks as The Usual Suspects, The Matrix and Life is Beautiful long before they were on the screen.

      I also recommend the AICN: Coaxial [aintitcool.com] section which focuses on television and home-media releases of films (where I found out about the Buckaroo Banzai DVD release).

  • Damn. That's it, no more NICK for me. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Nonesuch ( 90847 ) on Sunday January 20, 2002 @04:21PM (#2873403) Homepage Journal
    Zim was the only reason I would ever tune in Nickelodeon. The only other show I ever watched on there is CatDog.

    Time to write Nick and your cable company- remember, if you want them to give a damn, send a paper letter, not just a quick email. Companies that totally ignore email will usually at least read a nicely typed non-form-letter via US Mail. If you're lucky, you'll get a form letter in reply...

    I'd go so far as to say that Invader Zim is one of the best new shows in years, and by far the most original animated show on the air (only because Simpsons and Futurama have been pretty sucky lately).

    No Zim, no more reason for me to watch any of the rest Nicks' sanitized freak show of a network.

  • (No GIR, that's a bad thing...)

    Heard about this a while ago...

    If you're pissed off, check out this online petition [gopetition.com] and send lots of e-mails to the execs at Nickelodeon [nick.com].

    The one nice thing about this, though, is that now Jhonen can concentrate on possibly releasing a second series of Johnny the Homicidal Maniac. Ooooooo.... It almost makes me go head-explodey just thinking about it. =)

    *Runs off to his poprocks and Cherry Slushies*

  • Zimmy Zimmy Zim. (Score:5, Informative)

    by napa1m ( 154836 ) on Sunday January 20, 2002 @04:22PM (#2873414) Homepage
    disclaimer: I work at nickelodeon, but not in programming.
    disclaimer2: Zim is my favorite animated show.

    I can't say much for our programming department, I don't even really know who they are being as I don't work with them, but I sure would love to give them a swift kick in the ass.

    Firstly Zim premiered and showe Friday nights at 9:30.. no wonder the ratings weren't that high, they barely gave it a chance in that slot. Reruns during the week were scarse and oddly timeslotted as well.

    Secondly, its too good for Nick. Its quite simple, as Ren and Stimpy was too good. Its offbeat, its different, its interesting.. that means its scary to network executives who would rather contract another cookie-cutter piece of crap show from Klasky Csupo than take a risk on something exciting such as Zim.

    Thirdly, they did very little in the way of promotion. I can't tell you how many people tell me that they've never heard of Zim, despite either watching Nick themselves, or having children that do. What do you do with the bastard child? Ignore it and hope he goes away.. good job.

    Fourthly, Zim appeals to a very odd demographic which makes it hard to target. Its too dark for kids, its too weird for older parents, its almost right for the teenage crowd, but they're usually doing something else friday nights. It REALLY appeals to most 18-27 year old I've talked to, which unfortunately is not Nick's market. We've become the MTV of the pre-teeners, since MTV is now filled with teenagers.

    Fifthly.. wait is that a word? Ok nevermind, I've gone on too long. I'm just quite upset at the news and I hang onto hope that someone here will get their head straight and give Zim another chance, its one of the most original, refreshing, and fun cartoons to come out of any network in a long time. No more rugrats, no more Arnold, Spongebob can stay, but he must OBEY THE FIST.

    -ride the pig, -nA

    • No kidding. I loved Invader Zim, and I could never figure out when it was on. I don't mind cable companies playing games with their schedules, hell Sci Fi does that all the time, but at least they tell you about the new time slot and have a decent online schedule linked from the fricking front page. Nick's web site is---at best---an unusable splash of pastel fun. Thank the Maker that Google indexed it, otherwise I'd never find a thing on it.

      Gah.

      Rant mode off.

      • Here in Australia, the Nick channel has never shown Zim outside of a pack of programs, thus failing to list Zim properly in the guide. For ages it was part of "Slam" (4pm-6pm Sat/Sun), now it's buried in "Twisted Telly" (10pm-11:35pm Weekdays). And they've been looping 'round the same few episodes so much I thought it had been canceled.
    • ...too dark for kids
      ...too weird for older parents

      Hey Nickelodeon! My kids (6, 9, 11) love this show! especially Gir. I, an "older parent" also love this show.

      Hate to see it go :(

    • Invader ZIM is a great show, but I don't think it belngs on NICK, espcially during the day. Perhaps if nick had an "adult" series that only played after 9:30.
      I will watch some nick show with my kids, SpongeBob, is are favorite.
      When I was with my son (4years old), when this show called invader ZIM came on, I thought Its Nick, lets see where this goes. Imagine my surprise when ZIM ripped the eyes out of a child.

  • contacts (Score:1)

    by orn ( 34773 )
    A slight update to the post I made a bit ago. Here's an online petition:

    http://www.gopetition.com/info.php?petid=536

    And here's the nickelodeon "write to nick" website:
    http://www.nick.com/blab/write_nick/

    But the best would be to write a pen and paper letter to them. Here's a snail mail address:

    Nickelodeon / MTV Networks
    1515 Broadway
    New York, NY 10036

    Rudy
  • Zim was the only good show on their entire network! Have they noticed that people are downloading divx versions of the whole series on P2P networks?
    It's because the show never seemed to be on TV!
    I would gladly sit through all those damn commercials if I was able to actually watch Zim at a nice TV resolution..

    I guess now I'll have to get my Vasquez fix via JTHM and Squee.
  • For the love of God, Invader Zim is the best new show since The Simpsons. I agree that it may have been targeted to the wrong audience, but that doesnt seem to have been its only problem. I watched nick all the time to try to find Zim, but they would never tell you when it would be on. How are you supposed to find a show they never advertise? Let's all hope that somehow the show lives on.

  • Nickelodeon ruins everything they touch... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Nonesuch ( 90847 ) on Sunday January 20, 2002 @04:28PM (#2873441) Homepage Journal
    The few good shows Nick gets, they destroy.

    The article suggests that Nick is pulling Zim due to poor ratings- yet how can they expect good ratings when they randomly move the show to a new time slot every week? When they randomly show 'Wild Thornberries' in the slot Invader Zim was scheduled for, causing my Tivo to waste valuable recoding time? When they fail to supply episode descriptions 90% of the time?

    In my opinion, the worst sin of Nicktoons is the 'splitting' of episodes, where they take the individual segments that make up a 30-minute episode of Zim, CatDog, etc and package it with some live action slime game or other filler into a fifteen minute slot.

    Worse than that, they tend to start shows early and end them late, especially with these 15-minute half-episodes, so TiVo misses large portions of the cartoon.

    With the cancellation of Zim, I have one less reason to bother turning on the TV anymore.

    • I have a DTivo and it's never recorded the wrong thing in a "zim" slot. It's also always had episode descriptions. I suggest you yell at TMS and Tivo about the SA having bad/stale guide data. (I highly recommend the DTivo.)

      As for the sliding time slots, I used to be rather pissed at having to record two hours of bull to get a complete Anamaniacs episode. Lately they've not been so fscked up. Pinky and the Brain is a different story... butted up against the overnight Brady Bunch marathon (aka: hell) they show one skit to fill out to the normal daily schedule. The end result is up to 20mintues of crap before the actual P&B skit. (And what's with the asses plastering the damned Nick logo over everything they have? I'm surprised the logo isn't inside Pinky's head during the opening.)
      • No, I had similar issues that seemed to start right after 9/11. Zim was (almost) never on when it was scheduled (9/8 Fridays), even though TV Guide, TiVo *and* nick.com all agreed on when it should be on. I called AT&T to try to find out what they knew, they said they piped a direct feed from the sat and didn't change times of shows or anything.

        I started to notice that Zim would change slots with 'Hey Arnold' at random, so I started to TiVo that show as well. Then it was 'Fairly Odd Parents'... I started to get the feeling Nick didn't want anyone to see Zim if they could help it. I noticed that the ads for Zim disappeared.

        It's a shame. My kids (8 and 5) loved the sow and I really got into watching it with them. I got the feeling that the network wasn't very comfortable with the show in the first place, and what happened in September made them even more leery about putting it on.

        ...or maybe not, just seems wierd that the show wasn't given much of a chance to catch on and grow.
      • I have a DTivo and it's never recorded the wrong thing in a "zim" slot. It's also always had episode descriptions. I suggest you yell at TMS and Tivo about the SA having bad/stale guide data.
        Well, my SA TiVo often doesn't have episode descriptions for Invader Zim (ditto for many shows on Cartoon Network (it would be good to see IZ move to Adult Swim)), but I've never gotten the wrong thing in the slot, aside from when the cabable box didn't get all of the channel.
        (I highly recommend the DTivo.)
        Wish I could, but my apartment balcony is a north facing. ;(
    • Quick lesson in the TV biz...

      > the worst sin of Nicktoons is the 'splitting' of episodes

      This is called "repurposing." Expect to see lots more of it with all these new-fangled technologies emerging. Keep in mind the kiddies usually don't mind seeing this stuff over and over and over again. How many parents have had to "lose" their kids Raffi CDs? :)

      > Worse than that, they tend to start shows early and end them late

      Cable programmers have been doing this for a long time. Ted Turner was the first. It gets you to start watching before any other show is on and when you try and flip to another channel, they are showing commercials so you come back to the show your started with.

      --
      The opinions expressed here are my own and do not necessarily represent those of any one else. Other standard disclaimers apply.
    • In my opinion, the worst sin of Nicktoons is the 'splitting' of episodes, where they take the individual segments that make up a 30-minute episode of Zim, CatDog, etc and package it with some live action slime game or other filler into a fifteen minute slot.

      Actually, this practice is designed to get the show more viewers, by exposing it to kids who tune in for the other content. Since Zim's primary problem is a lack of viewership, you should tolerate, and even welcome, this practice, as long as Zim is also playing in its own slot.

    • You are correct in every respect. But this is an old story [slashdot.org]. The nasty truth is that the people who run TV networks are totally out of touch with their consumers.

      What makes this really frustrating is that there's more real creativity in the TV industry than there's ever been. I still don't care for most of the result, but there's no denying that most of the real writers and actors and other creative people are really trying hard.

      What the heck. TV networks are an obsolete concept anyway. Eventually we'll all have fat pipes into hour homes, and we'll just download what we want to watch. We'll probably have to pay for almost everything, but at least we'll never see that stupid EverReady Bunny again!

  • But the parents pay for them. Don't forget to complain to your local cable franchise. I would suspect more will be done if enough cable companies ask about why the shows are disappearing.
  • Someone was kind enough to start a petition [petitiononline.com] in favor of keeping the show, and losing some of the obvious censorship that has happened since 9/11. Please stop by and sign! Even if this doesn't "convince Nick" to keep the show, it should show the other stations how much of a following Grr (oh yeah, and Zim) have gathered. :-) Please sign it! [petitiononline.com]

  • If you like Zim... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Adam Wiggins ( 349 ) on Sunday January 20, 2002 @04:36PM (#2873475) Homepage
    Most die-hard Zim fans probably know this, but if you're a fan of a show but not familiar with Jhonen Vasque's other work, you owe it to yourself to get ahold of a copy of Squee [mailordercentral.com] and Johnny the Homicidal Maniac [mailordercentral.com]. The first is the more accessable and Zim-like; the second is Jhonen's quintisential work, but it is much darker and more philosophical. All his work [mailordercentral.com] is available from Slave Labor Graphics [slavelabor.com]. (Avoid Fillerbunny and especially the Bad Art Collection; these are for die-hard fans only.)

    More info:

    Link [viciousgrin.com]
    Link [swarthmore.edu]
    Link [lambiek.net]
    Link [cityslide.com]
    • "Darker and more Philosophical"??

      Try darker and a LOT more disturbing. My wife bought the JtHM book one collection sight unseen based on Zim, and now we have a nice sheaf of paper that we want to get rid of.

      This is not to slam anyone who likes JtHM, but hopefully no one who watches Zim will take your post as a "recommendation" without seriously looking at what they're buying first.

      • Hey, if you're trying to find someone to get rid of it to - I'm willing! Contact me and I'll be glad to pay the shipping to take it off your hands...

        webmaster@konqueror.org

        -clee
    • Indeed. I haven't seen much of the Squee ones, but a buddy of mine , who is a "comic book artist" (read "welfare" here) turned my onto JtHM a while back it was dark , evil and reeeally funny.

      zip fwd two years and where all sitting at a mates house watching nick between counterstrike matches and said comic artist almost leaps through the ceiling when he notes that this amusing wierd cartoon we just saw was the great Vasques himself.

      He nearly wet himself!
    • No, no, no . . . Don't avoid Fillerbunny. Fillerbunny is good for you. Fillerbunny is great. The Bad Art Collection's kind of a problem, yeah, but don't knock Fillerbunny. ("You can pretty much stop reading now." - CLASSIC!)

      Uh, yeah. Or avoid it. It's all the same to me. :P

  • I never understood how Jhonen Vasquez sold this show to Nick in the first place. I mean, it was probably my favorite piece of animation on tv, but the humor was definitely above kids' heads. I just hope he keeps doing animation and doesn't go back to comic books.
    • Probably because Comic book artists also "Eat Food".

      Seriously. You got to make a crust somehow, and comic books are not really ultimate bucks world.
      Still if he returns full time to comic books , fine, as his comics are among the best.
    • Above kids heads? Not the kids I know.

      Really think back to when you were nine or ten. You'd have loved Zim.

  • IZ cancelled due to union organizing drive. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 20, 2002 @04:40PM (#2873493)
    The reason Invader Zim, Spongebob, and 2 other shows are being dropped has everything to do with 16 out of 19 writers signing union cards.

    There is no unionization in the animation industry, and Nickelodeon means to keep it that way.

    Nick staffers demand union representation [dailynews.com]

    There was a story on yahoo! news last week that made the link clearer, but I can no longer find it.
    --
    Industrial Workers of the World [iww.org]
  • I'll admit. I have no clue who or what Zim is. I don't get cable (by choice), so Nick's a choice. That said, I did see in this discussion statements to the effect that "it's the best thing since the Simpsons."

    Now I do know who/what the Simpons are, and am wondering ... if Zim is as good, then is there a possibility that it would be picked-up by another network, cable or otherwise ?

  • I spose I'll just rant a little here... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ebbomega ( 410207 ) on Sunday January 20, 2002 @04:41PM (#2873498) Journal
    So. Who buys the ratings bullshit?

    Honestly. There's a lot more shows that pull in worse ratings than Invader Zim and that don't have the same cult following that Zim has behind it.

    I think Nickelodeon didn't think when they gave a man who happened to author a comic called "Johnny The Homicidal Maniac" a Children's TV Show.

    Go watch Dark Harvest. What kind of Kid wouldn't get nightmares from watching that episode? Honestly... just whenever he opens his mouth and you see all the guts inside.

    Not to mention the unaired FBI Warning episode, which is as such simply because it was apparently too controversial (Anybody care to shed some light behind why? I think it had something to do with Sept11...).

    This is a Viacom move, I'm guessing... and thusly political. Nickelodeon is Viacom's Kids Network, and being that Zim, much like Undergrads, The Oblongs, The Simpsons (so far the only one out of that list that was actually promoted _right_) and a pantheon of other cartoons aren't geared towards kids, were promoted as kids' shows, of course it's going to get pulled...

    The problem is the only more recent controversial cartoon that actually managed to survive through all of it got worn out in the first year (*coughSouthParkcough*) and after that it wasn't really funny anymore...

    So it's not a kids show. I honestly think Viacom should look around at its other channels (MTV?) for support of Zim.

    And while they're at it, they should push someone in Canada to pick it up. I hate having to watch all the episodes on my computer.
    • > So. Who buys the ratings bullshit?

      Advertisers. They pay for their commercials to be seen by a certain number of eyeballs that meet certain criteria. If that doesn't happen, then they don't pay. If the advertisers don't pay then the program service isn't gonna pay for the the program. There is (usually) nothing in ad purchase agreement that gives an escape for a good show. It can be the Best Darned Show Ever but no advertiser will care if their commercial isn't being seen by the right people.

      --
      The opinions expressed here are my own and do not necessarily represent those of any one else. Other standard disclaimers apply.
    • The FBI Warning episode wasn't so bad, as was the one that one aired with it...Door to Door.

      For those that haven't seen these 2 episodes:
      In FBI Warning, Zim sees the FBI Warning in front of a rented movie and thinks they're on to him.

      Then, in Door to Door, well, lets just say mass destruction of a city, etc. was the reason this wasn't aired.
  • Apparently, Invader ZIM won an Emmy [emmys.tv] for animation work. (Specifically, Kyle Menke got the Emmy for his storyboarding work.) Too bad it's being cancelled--it really is a quality show.
  • Ahh!! I just watched something like 2 minutes of Invader ZIM, and loved it. I read a few pages of Johnny The Homicidal Maniac (Disturbing) and got hooked on it. My friend has the graphic novel of JTHM, so i guess i will have to borrow it. But when are Invader ZIM DVDs coming out? That'd be great to add to my DVDs.
  • A friend of mine who is a big fan of the show has started a petition on this topic already. He's gotten around 1200 signatures already. If you like the show, and want it back, please sign it. Click [petitiononline.com] For copy and pasters: http://www.petitiononline.com/zq1010/
  • First the tick...then the x-files...then invader zim! What do these shows have in common? Several slashdotters enjoyed them, but they were cancelled. Instead of insulting the networks, perhaps there was a reason why?

    These shows had low ratings! That's right! TV is not an area for art to shine through! It is a commercialized and mechanized zoo that automatically produces animals that the public in general will want to see for entertainment. Without people seeing them, they are not as valued, and who are we to say that our shows are better than anyone else's?

    If you want to see some maverick but potentially good art, go watch independent films, or better yet, make your own! But don't look to TV for an art form, all it is is an area where they can broadcast 30 second advertisements to drones watching them, in hope that they can coerce them into buying something!
    • So now, remind us again how capitalism is supposed to bring us the best of everything?
    • Dude... X-Files was the #1 best show on television through it's long run with Duchovny. But admit it... now it's lost it. It's boring, has no direction, and basically sucks now.

      That's why it's cancelled.
    • Ratings don't come from my cable box reporting my viewing habits back to the cable company. They come from Neilsen families that have little boxes people get paid to have in their house. IIRC there's about 100,000 Neilsen families and their viewing habits get extrapolated to the rest of the country. Ever wonder how practically everyone on slashdot can watch a TV show yet it is cancled for low ratings. If it isn't watched by Neilsen families it gets shitty ratings. Are any slashdotters proud members of Neilsen families? I don't make my own art for my own sake. I wouldn't make a movie myself only to watch it 20 times. I know how it is going to fucking end. Independant films aren't exactly art forms either. For every good film in the entire world made there's a thousand more piece of shit made independant or not.
  • For those of you to lazy to write a real letter try this:http://www.nick.com/blab/write_nick/index.jht ml [nick.com]. It is a web-based comment submission form from nick.com. If possible, however, write with real paper, neatly typed and signed. (Primary tablet and crayon would also be good, but make sure, if you do sign it "love" instead of sincerly hehe)

  • Re: (Score:2, Troll)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • In a perfect world (Score:5, Insightful)

    by NiftyNews ( 537829 ) on Sunday January 20, 2002 @05:02PM (#2873583) Homepage
    In a perfect world, Zim would be picked up and added to Cartoon Network, who would then play an Adult Swim block every night.

    In an even more perfect world they would also pick up and renew The Critic, then steal Family Guy and Futurama from Fox and give them slots where they have a chance at getting eyeballs and ratings.

    In a perfect world...
    • Don't forget Duckman.
    • They don't need to put it in adult swim, it would be fine as a regular show. I mean, it's a whole level above nickelodeon's normal crap, but it doesn't need to be designated 'adult'.
    • The thing about Cartoon Network is that their budget is too low to actually make any sort of complicated animated show (at the moment anyway). The only moderate exception to this is Justice League. For blocks like Adult Swim the budget is even tighter. But their budget is not so small that they can't pick up canceled/finished series from other networks/countries and reshow them. Baby Blues, for instance, is clearly too expensive per episode for them to make the show, but they can still show the existing ones however long they want to. And in the case of anime, virtually all of the shows out there are self-contained series of 26 episodes or less. We don't expect season after season of these, we expect new material - which is the better policy, IMHO. All that matters is that it's new to you.
  • so the Cartoon Network can keep buying them and playing them during the stoner^H^H^Hdaytime hours.

  • To say I'm disappointed would be true. To say I'm surprised, would not be. Anyone who didn't see this coming needs to be hit in the head with a large bat. This show definitely had, as someone earlier noted, some hella subversive material in it.

    I was watching one particular episode and noticed that there were a lot of signs in the background containing all sorts of little messages. "Stop making babies!" "The Goat wants you!" and "Love or DIE!" were all some of them. It's hilarious, but definitely pretty messed up.

    It probably cost a lot to make, judging from the quality of the animation. Damn it was good.

    I wonder how much we're directly responsible for, though. I only watched three or four episodes on TV, then began to download them, only to never tune in again. I wonder how many other people opted to download episodes instead of watch them when they were broadcast. Only in hindsight do I realize that I was cheating the show of the ratings it so desperately needed to stay on the air. So I can't help but feel somewhat responsible for its death. After all, you get what you give.
    • Just to clear up a misconception, Nielsen ratings (the most widely used ones) are derived from so-called "Nielsen families" who get paid by Nielsen to have a box installed in their house which records which shows they watch and relays that information to Nielsen, which publishes it and often relays it to the networks. These Nielsen families only make up a small percentage of all TV viewers, but the statistics of the families are extrapolated to the entire viewing audience.
      What's more, Nielsen only recently started giving out ratings for cable networks (because these ratings are so much lower than CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC ratings). So don't feel too bad... unless you are in fact part of a Nielsen family, in which case shame on you.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Gir (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Nick kept on screwing around with the timeslot which made it kinda hard to watch. It seemed that it changed every week.

    I doubt anyone will pick up this show because
    1) its a very small audience who can understand zim and jhonen vasquez's work
    2) the show is expensive with all the cgi they do. i read an interview with vasquez and nick was the only place that had the capital to support the technology they use to animate

    The only good part about this is that jhonen will be able to work on johnny the homicidal maniac. The only thing that was stopping him was all the time he had to dedicate to zim.

    Unfortunately I doubt that nick will release the series in DVD form because they never do that with any of their shows. Stupid humans

  • Am I missing something? (Score:3, Informative)

    by impto ( 465496 ) on Sunday January 20, 2002 @05:45PM (#2873735) Homepage
    First of all I have seen a small number of Zim episodes and was not impressed. While it does have it's moments (I enjoy GIR), most of the material in it was loud-obnoxious-gross-out stuff, kinda like Ren and Stimpy in their bad episodes. I just don't know how people call this inspired. Again, I could be missing something. Please enlighten me.

    Secondly, all the posts about Zim being the best cartoon in years must not realize that Adult Swim exits and in particular the hour from 11-12p.m EST that they show "Williams Street" productions.

    I highly recommend checkin it out Sunday and Thursday nights on the Cartoon Network [cartoonnetwork.com]. That's not to mention that they play Cowboy Bepop for you anime fans.

    just my opinion, ignore it or mod it down at will

    impto

    -------------
    • They play a heavily edited and dubbed Cowboy Bebop. It just isn't the same.
    • There are some episodes that rely on the "gross-out" kind of stuff you're talking about, but that's really not representative of the show as a whole. Try out some more episodes if you feel like giving it another chance; most of them are just brilliant. (I'd recommend Parent-Teacher Conference, A Room With a Moose, Bad Bad Rubber Piggy, and Game Slave 2.)
  • Nickelodeon went and ran clumps of episodes all at once. It sholdn't be a surprise that 6 months down the line, nobody's watching, when they unloaded the whole season in a couple of weekends.

    If they'd mete out the series at a sane pace, leaving people looking forward to each new episode and hanging about to see what's on afterward, they'd get a lot more bang for their animation dollar.

    A few other networks have taken to doing this same thing. Somebody needs to up and shoot whoever the program managers are that covered Invader Zim, and The Tick, which enjoyed the very same problem.

  • It's too bad so many good shows are being and have been cancelled over the past several years.

  • Not that good (Score:3, Interesting)

    by SilentChris ( 452960 ) on Sunday January 20, 2002 @06:35PM (#2873966) Homepage
    I may be the only one, but I didn't think Invader Zim was that... um... good. True, it's better than some of the Klasky/Csupo tripe that Nick puts on (the later stuff, not the funny [and quite original] Real Monsters), but I think shows like Hey Arnold and SpongeBob Squarepants are consistently more creative and funny. Zim was just... well... sort of dark humor that wasn't really creative at all.

    I personally think since the "MTV-ising" of Nickelodean started they sorta went downhill (then again, I AM an adult -- perhaps I should stop watching cartoons as well?) The only cartoon I truely care about nowadays is Dexter's Laboratory, because even though I've seen some episodes a number of times they continue to surprise me. Plus, a great majority of episodes were funny. If either it or SpongeBob were to leave the airwaves permenantly I would probably be a little upset.

    I throw Invader Zim into the same pool I throw Rocko's Modern Life, Ren & Stimpy, Sheep in the Big City and the Grim and Evil show in -- supposedly "adult" cartoons that just come off like college students' art projects.

    • I personally think since the "MTV-ising" of Nickelodean started they sorta went downhill (then again, I AM an adult -- perhaps I should stop watching cartoons as well?)

      Yes. You should sit down and systematically destory any sense of fun you have. That way your existence of being housed in a small carpeted box will be much more tolerable. Instead you should start paying $300 a month to go and walk around a yard with guys named "Tad" that wear sweater vests, while men carry bags containing sticks that cost more than they make a year. And while you spend your mornings with Tad, always remember to laugh at his racists jokes, agree with whatever he says, and most importantly let Tad always win. If you keep that up long enough, maybe you'll get a larger carpeted box to spend your days in. And if you're really lucky you'll get a meager increase in the number of monetary units you take home every week. Of course during this time, the amount of time you spend in your box, and the number of tricks you perform there, will have increased exponentially.

      The only cartoon I truely care about nowadays is Dexter's Laboratory,

      Samurai Jack. Sublimeness from Genndy Tartakovsky. Not only is it drawn with muted colors, but there will be no dialog for about half the episode. (In episode 1, there was about 5 minutes of dialog total, and this is a 30 minute show.)
      • I noticed that too. There is a Samurai Jack episode with the bug robots where there is a segment probably 9 minutes long with no dialog at all. Pretty frickin cool.

  • You ever notice... (Score:3, Funny)

    by toupsie ( 88295 ) on Sunday January 20, 2002 @07:05PM (#2874056) Homepage
    CmdrTaco, have you ever notice how often shows are taken off the air when *you* like them? Once a month we are treated on Slashdot with "Gee, I liked this show and now they are taking it off the air!!!". I don't think the shows are the problem, its you. Do us all a favor and stop watching television! That way these cool shows will stay on the air. You are a TV Show Jinx.

  • Death and Morons: The Jhonen Vasquez Story (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Heres an interview with Jhonen Vasquez [revolutionsf.com]. Its kinda old but its a great read. It has info on the censorship that nick imposed and plenty of fan boy questions. Its very sad to see the show go. I have been a fan of vasquez since the days of Johnny and SQUEE. For all those who doubt the greatness of ZIM download the episodes. ZIM IMO is the best american cartoon out there, and yes I do watch adult swim. Vasquez has a really unique art style and a unique sense of humor. Hes one of the few comic book artists who doesnt draw every woman with double D's
  • I heard this particular theory over at Ain't It Cool... if you check out this link: http://www.dailynews.com/business/articles/0801/31 /BIZ01.asp [dailynews.com] You'll notice that some of the writers who were protesting Nick's shoddy treatment of themselves worked on...INVADER ZIM! Another show listed is "Constant Payne," which never saw the light of day. And didn't they cancel "Spongebob Squarepants" too? It's also listed. Hmm.

    Maybe it's nothing, and the show was cancelled simply because they didn't know how to handle it, just like the John K. days of Ren & Stimpy. Funny how whenever I would tell someone about Zim, I would always say, "...and for some reason Nicklodeon is airing it." Zim is so subversive and dark-I think all of us knew this day would come, at least those of us who remember what happened to Ren & Stimpy...at least they didn't fire Vasquez and re-edit the show in horrible horrible ways. Well, at least HOPEFULLY they won't...

  • The first time I saw Invader Zim I instantly recognized it as Vasquezian artwork and humor. I loved JTHM way back when and liked every episode of Zim I managed to catch. I think to really like Zim you need to have liked JTHM as well. Both have a crazy protagonist at odds with absolutely everything around them. The fact Nick feels the need to cancel it goes to show how inept their fucking program managers are. They're trying to grab the 12-16 audience between the hours of 8-10pm. The problem is their shows appeal to the 18-24 audience who have other things to do besides sit at home watching TV reverently on a Friday night. Then to make it worse they don't reair it on Sundays with any sort of consistancy so you can only possibly catch a couple episodes if you have ANYTHING in life you life to do besides wait for the damn show to air.

    I watch cartoons more now than I did when I was 10 but I don't have the luxery to sit around with one thumb up my ass and the other on a remote control flipping back and forth between Nickeodeon and the TV Guide channel hoping to maybe catch an episode of Invader Zim. If Nickelodeon wanted an audience for their shows they wouldn't have a website which insulted the intelligence of people over the age of 10 using it trying to find when a fucking cartoon aired. Nick's website is worse than a majority of the tripe they air. If the website says the show is on on Sunday I shouldn't need to drop candle wax into a bucket of water to predict whether or not it actually WILL be on on Sunday or not. I really liked Zim and it blows that I thought it already had been canceled because I couldn't find out when the hell it was airing on a-day-other-then-Friday to catch what I missed. Fuck them, fuck them up their stupid asses. Oh yeah, Scifi.com [scifi.com] had a little piece about Invader Zim and how nobody would miss it when it's gone. I always missed it when it was airing, I'm going to miss it alot more once it isn't aired. Guess I need to download Real Player now.
  • It's too bad Hollywood's trying to prevent these shows from living forever by existing on the internet. Yep... all that talent wasted. I hope that when Eisner dies, the DMCA prevents anybody from visiting his grave.

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