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Television Media

TiVo Watches the Super Bowl 377

Posted by michael from the watching-us-watching-them dept.
Boone^ writes: "While millions of people were seeing a tremendous football game, TiVo was busy collecting statistics about the Super Bowl viewing habits of its subscribers. Based on a random sampling of 10,000 of the 280,000 subscribers, they found out that Pepsi/Britney was the subject of the most replayed Ad(s), and not surprisingly the play that got the most attention was Vinatieri's game-winning FG."
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TiVo Watches the Super Bowl More

TiVo Watches the Super Bowl

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  • In the article I read on this in the morning paper, it said the ads were replayed more than plays from the game.

    Now there's a commentary on why people watch the Super Bowl...

    • Re:Ads more popular than the game (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Foggy Tristan ( 220356 ) on Tuesday February 05, 2002 @09:55AM (#2954929)
      Actually, this is a little misleading. While I have no doubt that a large number of people watch the game for the ads, the survey is skewered towards TiVO owners, not the Super Bowl watching population at large. While nowhere near the same of importance, it's the same factor that lead to the "Dewey Defeats Truman" headline (the headline was predicted based on a phone survey, one of the first of it's kind. Since few had telephones, except for the rich, the survey skewered towards their tastes, which was for Dewey.)
    • Be realistic, we all know that there are enough instant replays in American Football to begin with.. I watched the game, and I have a Tivo... While I am not that much of a football fan, I never felt compelled to use any of the trick play features of my Tivo simply because every play was already replayed for me from 27 different angles...

      My coworkers are big soccer (football) fans, and they use the Tivo to create their own instant replays, because unlike football, the networks don't really replay much for you...
      • My coworkers are big soccer (football) fans, and they use the Tivo to create their own instant replays, because unlike football, the networks don't really replay much for you
        Not really the fault of the networks, soccer just doesn't have many of those stop-the-clock-while-everyone-stands-around-doing- fuck-all breaks that US Football does.
      • While I am not that much of a football fan, I never felt compelled to use any of the trick play features of my Tivo simply because every play was already replayed for me from 27 different angles...

        I'm a Replay customer myself, but six in one and half-dozen in the other... one thing I love about it is during a game if I get a phone call or knock at the door I can pause the live game, handle the interrupt, and pick up right where I left off 20 minutes (or whatever) later - I don't miss a play, and by having those minutes spooled I can quickly bypass commercials.

        Another thing I've found by accident - not everthing that happens during the game gets replayed. There was one instance during a Tribe game (near the playoffs, IIRC) where some ditzy chick-reported asked a few totally fluff-ball questions of a guest (a scout for the Mariners, I think). At the end of the interview she tosses it back to the booth, and while the video switches away the mics are still open and we get to hear the interviewee ask "I waited three innings for THAT!" It would have been difficult to pick up exactly what happened without your own instant-replay.

        And one last little benefit - I don't record football games, but because of the instant replay I was able to archive to tape the infamous Browns/Jaguars debacle this year, in all it's bottle-throwing obscenity screaming glory.

  • Replaying the commercials (Score:3, Funny)

    by jmallett ( 189882 ) <jmallett@newgold.net> on Tuesday February 05, 2002 @09:50AM (#2954898)
    And we're shocked that the same male geeks who would actually fork over the money for TiVo enjoyed looking at Britney the most, too!

  • A survey FOR the advertisers (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sdo1 ( 213835 ) on Tuesday February 05, 2002 @09:52AM (#2954909) Journal
    Clearly the whole point of the survey was for them to say "Hey advertisers! Look! This technology is a GOOD thing for you, not a BAD thing."

    Of course, one of the reasons people watch the Superbowl is FOR the ads. I don't think I've ever watched a single ad when fast-forwarding through Battle-Bots.

    -S

  • Whoa whoa whoa... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by don_carnage ( 145494 )
    Wait a minute? You mean that if I go out and get a Tivo, then they can tell exactly what commercials I watch? I was always a little spooked by the fact that your cable television provider could tell which channel you were watching, but this is far worse than that!

    So everyone is cool with this then? I haven't seen a major /. story of Tivo aka Big Brother. Shouldn't this be under YRO?

    • Re:Whoa whoa whoa... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by jamie ( 78724 ) <jamie@slashdot.org> on Tuesday February 05, 2002 @10:05AM (#2955001) Journal

      "You mean that if I go out and get a Tivo, then they can tell exactly what commercials I watch?"

      Yeah. Take a look at this report, which goes into some technical detail about what your TiVo sends back (they watched the modem line as data transferred):

      http://www.privacyfoundation.org/privacywatch/ report.asp?id=62&action=0 [privacyfoundation.org]

      Your TiVo machine basically just sends its syslog home every night, complete with information like this:

      Jan 13 17:42:10 (none) LogTime[94]: WatchTV: change the channel: 0.015 sec
      Jan 13 17:42:55 (none) LogTime[94]: Lineup: update the OSD: 0.949 sec
      Jan 13 17:42:56 (none) LogTime[94]: Lineup: arrow up/down: 0.011 sec

      Except it's transmitted in a form that looks like this:

      980389520|WatchTV|live|IFC|27666|980384400
      980389546|MWEvent|tyTivo
      980389550|MWEvent|tySurfDown

      and of course it's anonymized, traceable only to your zipcode.

      The PrivacyFoundation.org report linked above broke the news that the way the anonymized data is FTP'd up to TiVo's homebase leaves a way that an insider employee (or an unscrupulous, lying company) could potentially correlate your syslog to your name, instead of just your zipcode. I've no idea whether TiVo has changed its practices after the report came out two years ago, but I'm not aware of them having done so.

    • Re:Whoa whoa whoa... (Score:5, Informative)

      by Ageless Stranger ( 540738 ) <crossbar&monkeybutler,org> on Tuesday February 05, 2002 @10:06AM (#2955006) Homepage
      You can opt out of the information gathering at any time. Any information that tivo gets is anonymous, and can't be linked to you.

      Tivo is actually very aware of privacy issues. Anytime it makes a change to it's privacy policy, however minor, it sends a email to its subscribers explaining what the change is, and why it was made. You can't say that about many companies.
      • Any information that tivo gets is anonymous, and can't be linked to you.

        I'm sorry, but the information can be linked to you. Start with the fact that the uploaded data is in a file whose name depends on the time of the call. All I have to do is go to UUNET[*] (the ISP that TiVo calls) and ask for their call logs. With these call logs, I can put 2+2 together and (with the callerID in the UUNET logs) get your phone number. Once I have your phone number, I can get your name, address, etc. I'll leave the rest to your imagination.

        [*] Note: you never signed up with UUNET, and UUNET never gave you any assurances about the privacy of your calls.
    • There've been a few slashdot stories about Tivo's data collection. This is where I heard about it. Jamie has a couple links in his comment.

    • Re:Whoa whoa whoa... (Score:2, Insightful)

      by lllama ( 228050 )
      So everyone is cool with this then? I haven't seen a major /. story of Tivo aka Big Brother. Shouldn't this be under YRO?
      An important thing to remember is that all that the statistics are telling them is that a TV was tuned into a particular channel at a particular time. Big Brother Behaviour (TM) would involve them watching you watch them. For all they know your pet could have stood on the remote.

      Personally I would prefer to watch ads that are customised for me. If that's what's paying for the show I'm watching then they may as well be interesting.

      Think of it like this: They have a table with your name and account number on. They have another that records what programmes were watched by what account number. The only real problem appears when the two are put together; and even then it depends who is going to receive the information and how easy it is for them to get it.

      • Think of it like this: They have a table with your name and account number on. They have another that records what programmes were watched by what account number. The only real problem appears when the two are put together; and even then it depends who is going to receive the information and how easy it is for them to get it.

        Exactly. What may seem harmless (like tracking which television shows you watch) can become harmful when combined with other data such as criminal records, which MP3's you download, how much alcohol you purchase at the grocery store, your votes on /. polls, etc. What's even worse is that they could do it in the name of "Homeland Defense(TM)" and everyone would be perfectly OK with it. I'm not saying the sky is falling, but the potential for some really bad stuff to come about is there (and has always been there.)

  • hmmm (Score:4, Funny)

    by InsaneCreator ( 209742 ) on Tuesday February 05, 2002 @09:55AM (#2954928)
    TiVo Watches the Super Bowl... ...and horny geeks watch Britney. :)

  • Did anyone *skip* commercials? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Marx_Mrvelous ( 532372 ) on Tuesday February 05, 2002 @09:55AM (#2954930) Homepage
    I'd rather like to know how many people fast-forwarded to skip through commercials. I would have!

  • Tivo owners watch the Super Bowl? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Dimwit ( 36756 ) on Tuesday February 05, 2002 @09:57AM (#2954944)
    Tivo owners watch the Super Bowl? But...but...sunlight, outdoors...sports...

    I don't know, it doesn't seem right. Shouldn't they be downloading Linux or trying to destroy the WTO or something?

    What's this world coming to...
  • Because now they know how many people flip when ads come one, and how many people don't flip, but how accurate are those stats? Maybe the people that don't flip are getting a beer from the fridge, or going to the bathroom, or the remove is out of reach...
    There are countless reasons that I might leave an ad playing or change channels during the ads, other than just "like to watch that ad/don't like to watch that ad".

  • This is not a bad thing (Score:5, Funny)

    by johnburton ( 21870 ) <johnb@jbmail.com> on Tuesday February 05, 2002 @10:00AM (#2954962) Homepage
    I *want* tv companies to know what I like to watch, and advertisers to know that I almost always skip their adverts because they are dull and pointless.

    I don't want them to know that the data comes from *me*, but I certainly have no objection to them knowing what is watched so maybe they'll make more programs I like.

    This is a *good* thing.

    • I AGREE - I Don't understand the naysayers AT ALL. (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      It doesn't make sense to hide what you watch at all. Tivo can report back stuff to companies of what exactly are on peoples subscription lists and TV shows can stay on the air longer, and the sucky shows can just go die. They can also tell advertisers what commercials you really hate. Girls with bouncy breats is OBVIOUSLY going to be more popular than any other ad, but still...
    • "I *want* tv companies to know ..."

      Why on earth is this marked as funny? I think the poster was serious, and I agree with him 100% We tend to here a lot of griping around here when somone is collecting information on us, but I'll tell them almost anything they want to know if it can genuinly improve my life. I DO NOT want them to know and single out me specifically, but if they can figure out that everyone starts channel surfing when a certain over-sized whiny voiced obnoxious celebrity pops onto our screen for a commercial, shouldn't we be gratefull?/p.

  • Since there's quite a few people outside the USA who didn't get to see the offical superbowl adverts, could someone list (or link to) this year's highlights?

    All I've heard about so far is some undefined beer advert, but apparently that wasn't the only popular one.

  • Max Headroom (Score:3, Interesting)

    by LeftHanded ( 160472 ) on Tuesday February 05, 2002 @10:01AM (#2954968) Homepage Journal
    Does anyone remember the premise of the show? TV Reporters only get to be on-air for as long as people are watching. The networks have big control rooms with real-time statistics of watchers. If the bar graph goes too low, you get pulled. With enough TiVo units, the networks could get the instant feedback they really want. Imagine TV lineups changing weekly, daily, hourly in direct response to viewers desires based on their TiVos. Scary, isn't it?
    • Tivo only calls 'home' once per day, unless forced by the user to make a call.

      In order to collect the real-time stats you mention, it would required a constant connection. Most people wouldnt stand for that since, if they have one, they like to use their phone for other reasons.

      There are PVRs that have broadband connectivity, that very well could send real-time data to the mothership. As has been discussed here and other palces many times, there's a sizeable limit to the availabilty of broadband that phone access just doesnt encounter.

      Besides, those broadband capable PVR's are more costly for the startup fee, and I dont think they are hackable either.

    • Imagine TV lineups changing weekly, daily, hourly in direct response to viewers desires based on their TiVos. Scary, isn't it?

      Hardly. Hell, I'm all for it, if it would mean that us TiVo geeks could have Futurama pre-empt the last 30 minutes of a late-running stupid NFL game, instead of the other way around like it is now. :-)

      ~Philly
  • Is how many people use TiVo to skip the commercials (okay, not so many during the SuperBowl) and to skip the time between plays.

    One of the great ways to watch 'ordinary' football games is to let the TiVo record the game but don't start watching until about half-way through.

    You enable the 30 second skip and every time the ball is blown dead, you punch it and they're playing again! Commercial comes on, punch it 2 to 6 times and presto, they're playing again.

    If you start about 90 minutes into the game, you'll finish in close to real time watching the end of the game. I love it!

  • Super Bowl Ads Online (Score:5, Informative)

    by Alien54 ( 180860 ) on Tuesday February 05, 2002 @10:03AM (#2954983) Journal
    The Superbowls ads are all on line at Ifilm:

    http://www.ifilm.com/superbowl [ifilm.com]

    Although alot of the various companies also have their ads up on their corporate sites


  • You know if your *really* worried about this then
    you should cancel all of your credit cards and move
    to the deep woods now. Many companies can already
    find out detailed and personal information about you
    just by looking at the data they already have in
    their databases.

    Ever shop at Walmart? Someone I know made a sales
    call to a top IT manager at Walmart a *few* years
    ago. It was his second trip there. During the
    intial banter the IT manager asked the guy if he
    rembered his toothbrush this time. Apparently
    the guy did a query on all of his recent purchases
    and noticed that among his purchases on his last visit was a toothbrush. It totaly blew my freinds
    mind.

    Many businesses have just this kind of detailed
    info on you already. They're only going to collect more and more, and there's not much you
    can do about it unless you become a hermit.

  • Before everyone starts protesting... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by tgd ( 2822 ) on Tuesday February 05, 2002 @10:06AM (#2955008)
    I don't want to hear it if you a) don't have a Tivo and b) haven't looked into what exact data they collect.

    Privacy people tend to get all spazzy on here, and work everyone else up into a tizzy, and in the case of Tivo, its not even remotely warranted.

    This sort of thing is what keeps Tivo going. This is a new market and it takes a long time to start breaking even. I have zero problem with Tivo doing this, if it allows me to continue using their service which, frankly, I can't imagine having to do without.

    Tivo has been a company that from day one has been extremely concerned about privacy rights, and open communication with their users. If you spend any time browsing the Tivo forums at http://www.tivocommunity.com you'll see that not only do they have a powerful support presense, they are very open about what they collect, how its analyzed, and how its sold. People in the underground community independantly verified what they were saying.

    So, basically, everyone relax. Step away from the keyboard, and go unpause Jerry Springer on the Tivo. That's where the real excitement is, not here.
    • IMJHBT (I May Have Just Been Trolled), but do this:

      Enable backdoors. Then use the keystroke sequence that allows you to view log file (it might be Select, Clear, Select, Instant Replay, Select or something like that--check out tivocommunity.com [tivocommunity.com] and search for "backdoors". Then look at the file containing a log of all your remote control presses. Now don't tell me not to get in a tizzy because it isn't "warranted".

      If they did that to you at work on your computer, I'd bet you'd be in a tizzy. I'll bet if the version of XP you're using at home did that, you'd be in a tizzy. The fact that it's TiVo and that it's an undoubtedly cool product does not in any way make this right. I support TiVo--I subscribe to their monthly service, I use my TiVo faithfully, but it does not make this sinister tactic right, especially when they send me e-mails and messages to the TiVo about how much they value my privacy.

      Maybe you're not so bothered by it, but there's no way you can justify what they're doing simply because it's new technology and they need to get a foothold. They need to get a clue.

      • Okay I'll bite. (Score:3, Redundant)

        by tgd ( 2822 )
        I don't even have to go to my Tivo to do that. You're posting like you assume I haven't done that before. Backdoors were cool when they first were found two years ago, but they pretty much bring yawns now.

        So you want me to go see whats in my log files. Since I'm at work, I can't play with the silly backdoors, but since I know a pretty fair amount about how the Tivo works, I have two options available to me. One, I can log into my Tivo over the web and look at the reports there. Or I can look through the entire MFS database on the Tivo for anything I find suspect. But I've done that before and it got old too. Have you? I'm guessing not, since you seemed so excited about the backdoors.

        So that aside, my other option is to just ssh into my Tivo. Easy enough, and I can go and just ftp off the syslog. But you know what? I was doing that a year and a half ago too, and it just isn't that interesting either. I know perfectly well what data gets sent up to Tivo. I know perfectly well that the serial number is used via HTTP basic authentication before data is uploaded or downloaded from Tivo. I also know perfectly well that they have said they do not correlate data with users, and I believe them because in two years I've never had a reason not to, and I've dealt pretty directly with Tivo. I also know that Tivo doesn't have the right information to really find out anything useful about me anyway, since they don't know what was on a channel at a given time anyway!. Want to know what else I know? Having worked with a number of companies in the past that write software for data mining demographic data sources, I can tell you for absolutely certain that the Tivo information isn't within two or three orders of magnitude as damaging to your privacy as the data collected when you go shopping and pay for anything with any tender other than cash. And walk there because you don't have a drivers license or car. And don't own or rent property.

        Get real. I can't say you're being paranoid, but you're looking at the world with blinders... things are a whole lot worse than you think, and a whole lot more out of your ability to control than you think. Going after Tivo for what they are doing is just plain silly.

      • *Yawn*

        This isn't my computer, this is my TV for christ's sake. Even *if* Tivo do break their word and sell this data on, I don't give a rat's ass. If an advertiser wanted to know what TV I watched, and could ask me in an un-obtrusive way, I'd tell 'em. Maybe it would improve the state of TV these days?

        Everything has a cost. Part of the cost of using Tivo is that aggregated anonymous viewing data is sold on to third parties. This is made clear all over their website, and the docs, and you can opt out if you feel strongly. If you don't agree with the cost, don't buy the product.

  • *GASP* TiVo has a privacy policy! (Score:5, Informative)

    by jspayne ( 98716 ) <jeff@nOSpAm.paynesplace.com> on Tuesday February 05, 2002 @10:09AM (#2955028) Homepage
    The highlights (from tivo.com, support/privacy):

    The TiVo DVR collects certain types of information from its users, including Anonymous Viewing Information, Diagnostic Information, Commerce Information, and Service Information.

    TiVo has no way to access any of your Personally Identifiable Viewing Information from your DVR without your prior consent. Absent your consent, the TiVo service has no way of knowing what shows you-as an individual or household- have watched, recorded, or rated with "Thumbs Up" or "Thumbs Down."

    TiVo does collect Anonymous Viewing Information; that is, information about viewing choices made while using your DVR, but that does not identify you as an individual or household. In other words, there is no personally identifiable information associated with the viewing information that could identify the viewing information as coming from you or your household. TiVo also collects Diagnostic Information from a small number of randomly sampled DVRs for quality control purposes. If you don't want even your Anonymous Viewing Information or Diagnostic Information used in any way, simply tell us by calling our toll free number (1-877-367-8486).

    If you affirmatively elect to engage in a commercial transaction using the TiVo service, such as by responding to an advertisement on the TiVo service, TiVo will collect and disclose your Commerce Information to the commerce partner fulfilling the transaction.

    TiVo intends to make available new services in the future. These services will be governed by the privacy policies of the respective service providers.

    Note that the hackers in the underground have verified what information is sent to TiVo, and that the opt-out really does stop that information transfer.

    Stop the FUD - you know you can. Anonymous, opt-out, what's the problem?

    Jeff

  • For those Canadians/non-Americans... (Score:3, Informative)

    by nettdata ( 88196 ) on Tuesday February 05, 2002 @10:18AM (#2955068) Homepage
    ...who don't get to watch the Superbowl commercials, be sure to check out ifilm.com's Superbowl Page [ifilm.com] where you can check them out.

    I first found out about the since deceased AdCritic by looking for a place to check out the SB commercials, and it looks like these guys have filled that void for me.

    For those of you who aren't aware, Canadian cable companies cut out the American commercials and insert our own, unique brand of crap in their place.

    At least this year, there was a game worth watching!
  • I never miss any of my favorite shows anymore, and there is always something good on TV, no matter what the time and day. Maybe if enough Tivo users watch a particular show then it won't be cancelled. It seems that they always cancel my favorite shows before it even lasts a single season. SPOOOOOON! That's why I participate in the stats gathering.

    I am working for a start up and have long hours, but I still get to see every one of my favorite shows.

    It can only record one channel at a time, but worse case I could always get my VCR to record a second show if I wanted to. There are rarely 2 shows on at the same time that I want to watch. I am lucky if there is one show on that I want to watch, so Tivo has really made tv watching fun again.

    One of the cool things that it can do that a VCR can't is that you can watch a recording, while Tivo is recording another show.

    It can only record about 15 hours of video at medium quality. I am going to put in the extra 80GB hard drive so that I can record another 60 hours of medium quality video. I want to record and store entire seasons of my favorite shows and then store them as DiVX on DVD-R. I should be able to fit about 9 hours of VHS quality video on every DVD-R :)

    One of the cool things that Tivo could allow is that they could put on less popular shows on at 4am in the morning, and anyone that really wants to watch the show can have Tivo pick it up. It would also be cool to put on education classes on at night, or on a particular channel.

  • The data mining level is pretty astonishing (Score:3, Informative)

    by sh0rtie ( 455432 ) on Tuesday February 05, 2002 @10:24AM (#2955096)
    The actual level of data collected is way more than just what channel you are watching, the data is so specific it can tell how many times and what time you pressed any button on the remote at any time, be it volume control ,pause buttons anything!

    This data to advertisers is known as "gold dust"
    advertisers could find out things like:
    did you watch their advert if so how many times
    did you forward or rewind it if so how far
    did you cut the volume if so for how long
    did you flip channel if so did you flip it back
    when you flipped what advert did you see on the other channel

    and just about any viewing habit data they choose , and guess what , your paying a subscription for this service so for Tivo this is a win win win situation and must be laughing in their condos on malibu beach.

    now this report [privacyfoundation.org] is rather biased towards privacy and some say the report is flawed blah blah but the actual captured data logs are not.

    Now whereas the data is "anonomous" it is linked to subscribers via postcode/zipcode and certainly here in the UK if i give my postcode to some companies they can tell exactly which house iam living in , not totally anonomous, and after all, they only need to know what the "house" is watching as everyone sits down and watches the same program together so individual advert profiling would be irrelavent.

    devices like Tivo could work without selling this data to advertisers but the might hand of marketing is pretty good at persuasding poor companies that the financial recompence is worthwhile.

    IMHO the whole point of a Tivo is data collection hence right from the start the units have been designed as profiling devices capturing all available statistical data, i mean what use is recording when i press volume buttons in determining that the simpsons is on and if i would like to watch it ?

    the sooner people complain and see these companies for what they really are the better
    • oh wake up.

      Have you read anything at all about TiVo besides the paranoid ramblings of various slashdotters?

      IMHO the whole point of a Tivo is data collection hence right from the start the units have been designed as profiling devices capturing all available statistical data

      Duh. TiVo said they would use this data for marketing and revenue purposes RIGHT FROM THE START. This isn't a big secret. They also allow you to opt out of the service!

      the sooner people complain and see these companies for what they really are the better

      uh-huh. how insulated is your private information? health records? drivers license info? credit history? and you are worried that someone is going to know you like to watch boobies bounce on tv?

      I think Slashdot has finally reached the critical mass of morons
    • My understanding was they use the 5 digit zip code. Not the 5+4 digit zip code that will identify a unique address.

      Can anyone confirm this?
      • My understanding was they use the 5 digit zip code. Not the 5+4 digit zip code that will identify a unique address.

        You are correct, they tag the data with the ZIP code only. But: they do have your entire address sitting in some database on their servers. All that has to happen is for some "flunky" to SELECT the "wrong" columns, and voila! Your personal viewing habits have now been exposed to the marketers.
        • Assuming that you're the only subscriber they have in that particular 5-digit zip code, yes they could. Otherwise, they couldn't unless they are getting more unique information than the 5-digit zip code.

          It appears we have independent review of the information being sent back, and they are not using anything more unique than the 5-digit zip.
    • Tivo explicitly promises not to use anything more specific than a zip code to identify your viewing details (see point 1.3 of their privacy policy [tivo.com]); and that's nothing like as specific as you seem to think - unless everyone in Beverley Hills 90210 lives in the same house. Even UK postcodes aren't that precise: it's simply not true to say that "if i give my postcode to some companies they can tell exactly which house iam living in," unless your house is the size of a football pitch.

      And if you don't want Tivo to collect your data at all, you can simply tell them not to. This is clearly stated in their terms and conditions [tivo.com] - and indeed in the PrivacyWatch report you quote [privacyfoundation.org]. Okay, you have to phone them, rather than pushing a button, but it's an offer they're under no obligation to make at all. And they even give you a toll-free number to call!

      So I don't see any grounds for complaint. I mean, the users get a service they clearly love (see Slashdot stories passim) for a price they're happy to pay; the advertisers get invaluable data, freely given and broadly anonymous, again for a price they're happy to pay; and Tivo gets the revenue from both sides. Personally, I think that's wonderful. Tivo have managed to broker a stunning win-win business model, and best of luck to them.
  • ...is that I pay them for shitty program information that's a tenth of the quality of that which I already get with my digital cable box. TiVo has been slow in acknowledging the lineup changes in our digital service and has a few triply-multiplexed channels in the lineup where there ought not to be. So $10/month gets me this service, but at the same time they're making money on this goldmine that they're collecting and publishing reports about. Think about it--they are one step from offering up customized information to the networks for a fortune. And I'm supposed to pay for crap lineup information AND have all my personal viewing habit data sent to them so they can sell it to advertisers and networks? No thanks.
  • I wonder if they gathered the stats for everyone who was expecting Malcom in the Middle to record and ended up GETTING the Superbowl instead? Ah HEM... I got the first 2 minutes of the show though!
    • Could someone elaborate on this? If the Tivo
      programming fails to account for live sports
      running over the alloted time, that's a big
      flaw. Come to think of it, if it only gets
      schedule info late at night over a phone line,
      this would have to happen. Another good reason
      they should move to an always-connected broadband
      solution.
      • Yes, this is true that TiVo can't doesn't automatically adjust schedules when sports programs or awards shows run over. But in this case, Fox certainly didn't help matters by purposely drawing the Super Bowl postgame out until the top of the hour. What you can do (and what I did) is to "pad" the recording time of the program that follows a sporting event. When I saw how long the post-game was taking, I added an hour to the Malcolm In the Middle recording and was able to get it in its entirety.
  • I admit I haven't been following the tivo thing too closely, and I knew you had to dial in with the thing to get the service, but this is the first time I've heard that they monitor your every move.

    It will be a cold day in hell before one of those things ever enters my house.
  • Everyone who thinks that this is a bad thing had better stop using Google now.
  • I look forward to these statistical results. It increases knowledge of ourselves.
    I have two reservations:
    (1) No individual data are made available.
    (2) All results are made available to everyone.

    I think the Brits, a couple whom authored "1984" and "Brave New World" are showing the proper direction. They put surveillence cams up everywhere. However they make much of the feed publically available. There is less opposition to more information when *everyone* has *full* access to it.

  • Beats the Neilsons (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Dimitri-san ( 169146 )
    Privacy arguments aside, I would love to see this type of technology replace the Neilson Ratings. I believe that if the television ratings were generated by Tivo users rather than a (so-called) random group of Neilson families, the quality of what survives on television would jump dramatically.

    I mean, seriously, the people filling out those forms are not going to put down that they watched the Playboy Channel for 8 straight hours; they're going to put down "Friends," "ER," and "60 Minutes" because it's what's expected of them.

    Tracking viewing habits with DVR/PVRs can only help push the networks out of churning out the same old garbage year after year.

  • Tivo vs. Testing (Score:2, Interesting)

    by TexTex ( 323298 )
    Information gathering of this sort, assuming they stick to their posted privacy policy, isn't really such a bad thing. Advertisers work in odd and mysterious ways, and basing a campaign or new product on what works in "testing" seems far less correct than judging it on actual viewing habits.

    Testing works by essentially shoving groups of 12 people or so in remote cities in Wisconsin (or wherever represents a demographic mix) into a room and interviewing them, very very precisely. These people get a snack lunch and some money. Advertisers feel they get an accurate view of how the public will view a spot. I've seen plenty of commercials killed in testing (after all they money has been spent to make them) and it really pisses of the company and the ad agency.

    They don't get mad at themselves, the usually get mad at the public. After all, all their previous research said this new potato chip would be huge...so it can't be their fault.

    Tivo's ability to gather data on a individual and group level (like the whole zip code of that town in Wisconsin) is far faster than Nielsen ratings, more specific to an individual TV event like commercials or programming, and most likely useful to advertisers and programmers in general.

  • She's a skank, plain and simple. The worst rolemodel for a young girl, and unfortunately she's got most of them in her evil clutches.

    Besides, regarding her jingle, "...for those who think young," she got practically ever guy thinking young (of her), which is just wrong.

  • get over it. (Score:3)

    by supernova87a ( 532540 ) <kepler1@@@hotmail...com> on Tuesday February 05, 2002 @11:11AM (#2955347)
    I'm surprised how strongly some people react to others gathering statistics on what they do. Now, granted this is a private activity, watching tv in your own home. But I think that some people need to get over their self-inflated sense of "privacy" and "anonymity". Privacy is being allowed to go about your business without having your rights infringed upon by the state. Anonymity is a different matter. If you choose to use Tivo, and incredibly neat and useful gadget, you contribute to their ability to gather statistics. There's no invasion of privacy going on here, and try as you might, your "rights" are not being deprived (which I think some people forget in our individualistic society).

    Eventually, every (smart) company that grows to serve more than a handful of people has to treat those customers as statistics, even though they may claim to be providing incredibly "personal" service.

    Some companies are more sophisticated at using the information at their disposal, and employ teams of data miners to sift through for patterns that'll benefit their business. Others aren't so clever and lose out on those chances.

    But in either case, why expect both anonymity *and* privacy? There is no constitutional right to either.
  • How did you pay for your tivo box? If you paid anything but cash, then you should be more worried about what the evil salesperson at the home electronics store could do with your credit card or checking account infomration than *gasp* what tivo could do with you TV viewing habits.
  • Tomorrow, if Bill G. announces that Micro$oft (via Windows 9X/Me/NT/2K/CE/XP/YZ) will be collecting "anonymous statistics" about which websites you visit, what you read, etc. and assures you that these statistics will be used only to "improve your online browsing experience", without identifying you personally (other than by your ZIP code), how many of you would agree to that (assuming you use Micro$oft's products) ?

    • Re:What if Micro$oft did the same? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by InterruptDescriptorT ( 531083 ) on Tuesday February 05, 2002 @12:01PM (#2955630) Homepage
      Amen. This is the same argument I was going for in this thread [slashdot.org].

      Apparently, this sort of data collection is OK, because TiVos are 'cool' and PVR technology needs to be fostered. I totally agree that they are, but so is Windows Media Player (IMHO). If it sent filenames back to Microsoft of all streams I watched, but let you opt out of it, the same people defending TiVo would be quite literally foaming at the mouth.

  • They got bad data from me. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by LordNimon ( 85072 ) on Tuesday February 05, 2002 @12:33PM (#2955858)
    As many of you know, a TiVo is always recording when plugged in. I turned on my TV at one point, and saw that it was playing the Superbowl. Apparently, the last thing it recorded was on Fox, and so it stayed on that channel. After a few seconds, I turned the TV off. As far as the TiVo is concerned, I watched the Superbowl from beginning to end, non-stop. Yeah, right.

    I think I'll be opting out.

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