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Television Media

Jeremiah, a New Series from B5 Creator, Debuts Sunday 218

Posted by chrisd from the hopefully-jms-has-the-b5-4th-season-editor-handy dept.
wka writes "This Usenet post, by J. Michael Straczynski (creator of Babylon 5 ), outlines his new TV series Jeremiah . Based on a graphic novel series, it's a show 'about beginnings' after a killer virus has wiped out most of Earth's population, and it premieres on premium-cable channel Showtime Sunday night (regular airings to follow on Fridays). We can hope that the executives who interfered with Stargate SG-1 don't mess up this show."
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Jeremiah, a New Series from B5 Creator, Debuts Sunday More

Jeremiah, a New Series from B5 Creator, Debuts Sunday

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  • "Survivors" (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Bill Kendrick ( 19287 ) <bill@newbreedsoftware.com> on Wednesday February 27, 2002 @07:36PM (#3081267) Homepage
    Sounds like a similar premise to the excellent 70's BBC sci-fi "Survivors."

    Kind of a depressing theme, tho. :)
    • .... or Stephen King's The Stand (an excellent read, and possibly the first SK book-to-movie that didn't completely suck, or change the story a huge amount). Of course, the TV mini-series was hefty, 3 or 4 2 hour episodes IIRC, but it pretty much stayed with the book. I was very impressed with it. This show sounds different of course, as The Stand was about 99.9% of the population being wiped out by a super-virus as well, but there was also a bunch of stuff about magic and monsters (as no SK book would be complete without), and a visit from Flaag :)

      Either way I'm still going to mark this in my Pilot so I don't forget :)
  • ..there have been any number of killer virus stories on TV and none of them have been any good. Lets hope Strazynscki (sp?) doesn't end up falling from his divine pedestal like when Gerry Anderson did Space Precinct.
    • Ummm... Have you seen Legend of the Rangers? Any pedestal this guy was has long since been yanked out from under-neath him. Ugh.
    • This sounds like it is not a "killer virus story" per se. You can probably replace "killer virus" with "huge nuke" or "alien invasion" or "giant asteroid" and have the same result (maybe a bit more of a stretch to explain the whole "nobody over puperty survives"-angle, but wth. Of course, once JMS ties it all together, the fact that it was a virus will be integral, and you'll sit in amazement going "Wow! So *thats* what's been going on!" But that's just cuz JMS rocks :-) (I have officially forgiven him for the 5th season of B5. Everybody makes mistakes, and I can move past his).

      My point is, this is not an outbreak-clone, but a post-apocalyptic story that uses a virus as the kickoff. I'm waiting anxiously for it to appear on edonkey2k ;-)

  • Pretty interesting... (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    ...when it was called "The Stand!"
  • Doesn't this seem surprisingly similiar to the B5 movie A Call to Arms and the series Crusade? I'd've thought JMS would be just a bit imaginative in thinking of new series.
    • Not to put words in his mouth, but I believe he would say something like "It isn't where you are going, but how you get there"

      And, if you want to get technical, no it isn't. The B5 call to arms/Crusade deal is about searching for a cure that is *going* to wipe out earth if it isn't found.

      This is about rebuilding civilization from the ashes after a major catastrophe. Still, many other people have explored this. However, each is does it in a different way, from a different perspective. I hope jms will do it well (though I don't have showtime, so I won't be able to watch it the first time through)
    • I hate to keep repeating Aristotle's line about there being only so many ideas.

      The idea of a plague is in many films and shows, like in "12 Monkeys", in which the survivors live in a hermetically sealed underground world and go back in time to figure out how it started. In an episode of "The Outer Limits", a time protection organization goes back to prevent a plague, only to discover that they were in fact its source.

      I'll be frank, I have ideas that are WAY to the 49th weird, out there. However, until we have some way to get past the funks we're in, folks are going to recycle the same ol' ideas in newer and hopefully more interesting and more realistic forms.

  • I was pretty stoked reading the description so I flipped on over to the show's site.

    Oh my word! Any excitement/interest I had died the moment I say Luke Perry and Malcolm-Jamal Warner on the poster.

    I predict the show will be short lived for very good reasons. No one wants to see Ricky Schroder on NYPD Blue, No one wants to see Doogie Howser all grown up-- and no one will want to see these 2 take a stab at being 'grown up'

    .

    • Read closer (Score:5, Funny)

      by Hammerself ( 560585 ) on Wednesday February 27, 2002 @07:46PM (#3081320)
      "And the Ground, Sown with Salt"...a very intense episode guest starring Jason Priestley

      Your pain is only beginning.
    • They have had radio ad's on one of the clear channel owned radio station for about 2 days now. Luke Perry says something to the effect of "I never thought I would make it this far dad..." or some sappy pesudo poetic junk that is supposed to peak our intrest. Needless to say the DJ's are making constant fun of it.

    • Luke Perry? ::ack:: grabs throat due to horror/disgust/dislodged-food.

      personally, i was never a fan of "B5/Andromeda/Star Trek/Earth Final Conflict"...so I guess I am not too excited about this. not to mention luke perry isn't helping either...

    • If you watched OZ, you would know that Perry did a pretty good imitation of a grown up. When he gets a good writer, which JMS is, Perry will do just fine. Warner now, I have my doubts.
    • He acquitted himself reasonably well in the last season of Oz [imdb.com]. I'll give him a chance in this.
  • Oh yeah, that's reliable ;)

    (And this damn Slow Down page has come up four times and every damn time I have to retype this.)

  • Why not.. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by lowtekneq ( 469145 )
    Why do you never see any Sci-fi shows about what the near future could really be like (sure a virus COULD wipe out humanity)? Something based on the book snowcrash would be pretty cool.

    • Re:Why not.. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Fweeky ( 41046 ) on Thursday February 28, 2002 @12:01AM (#3082326) Homepage
      > Why do you never see any Sci-fi shows about what the near future could really be like

      Because most producers, and indeed, most writers are just too unimaginative to work realism into a series like this.

      Just look at Star Trek; the aliens are all humans with ridged heads and various stereotypes, the society is dull and boring, and the people act completely unlike real people.

      Sure, you can throw in (Sociopathic|Pychopathic|Weird) (Killer|Assimilator) aliens in and have a few dodgy unrealistic unconvincing space battles (when was the last time you saw an "antimatter" powered ship in Star Trek explode and light up half of space and literally melt the hulls of anything nearby? Hell, when was the last time you saw a quantum-photon-xeon-pentium torpedo that did anything but dent a ship?), and have some sickening ultra-transparent "morality" tales, but at the end of the day it's so phoney that there's not a chance in hell anyone's going to go away from watching it thinking they've really seen what the future might be like, or some idea that could make them think for more than 5 seconds.

      There are all sorts of issues that would make for great stuff in sci-fi, but because they require skill and imagination (not to mention a few ounces of clue) they're avoided.

      Thankfully, we still have some decent [amazon.co.uk] quality [amazon.co.uk] writers [amazon.co.uk] in [amazon.co.uk] other [amazon.co.uk] areas [amazon.co.uk] of [amazon.co.uk] media [amazon.co.uk]..

      [waits to be bitchslapped for dissing Star Trek.. I do like it really, honest]
      • .

        Thankfully, we still have some decent [amazon.co.uk] quality [amazon.co.uk] writers [amazon.co.uk] in [amazon.co.uk] other [amazon.co.uk] areas [amazon.co.uk] of [amazon.co.uk] media [amazon.co.uk]..

        [waits to be bitchslapped for dissing Star Trek.. I do like it really, honest]

        No, but I'd bitchslap you for linking to amazon eight times and their one click patents if I'd could

  • To JMS: (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jafac ( 1449 ) on Wednesday February 27, 2002 @07:43PM (#3081302) Homepage
    I was a faithful watcher of B5 and even the short-lived spin-off, and Legend of the Rangers.
    What was the point of Legend of the Rangers? was it a pilot for an aborted series? Anyway, I will *not* be watching this new series, even though it sounds fairly interesting, and in the past you have delighted me with your story arcs and special effects, and colorful characters.

    The reason is the network that's picking this up. I'm not going to subscribe to a general movie channel to watch a sci fi series. This show should be on the Scifi channel. Not Showtime. The best of luck to this latest endeavour. . .

    • Re:To JMS: (Score:4, Insightful)

      by JordanH ( 75307 ) on Wednesday February 27, 2002 @07:58PM (#3081379) Homepage Journal
      • This show should be on the Scifi channel. Not Showtime.

      I disagree. If it's really good, maybe it'll bring in a wider Scifi audience. Looking at it another way, there may not be any room for another competing Scifi channel, but it's also unhealthy putting all the Science Fiction on one channel. The Scifi channel might take it's target audience for granted if they don't have more competition.

      True, UPN and others put on Scifi, but the more Scifi the better, I think.

      Now, if it's just the case that you won't be buying Showtime for this one program, that's understandable, but complaining because their putting Scifi on a general movie channel? That doesn't seem reasonable.

      • I'm actually kind of glad that it's on Showtime. At least there is *SOME* hope that it will be broadcast in Dolby Digital (SG-1 is). Also, at least via DirecTV, Sci-Fi looks pretty crappy because they overcompress it. The show will most likely look better on Showtime.

    • Re:To JMS: (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Our Man In Redmond ( 63094 ) on Wednesday February 27, 2002 @08:03PM (#3081409)
      Yes, but Showtime has the resources to do something like this and do it right -- and in "do it right" I include "sell it to another non-subscription network after a year so us freeloaders can see it." Similar to what they've done with Stargate SG-1.

      Most pay TV content that's any good eventually works its way onto a more accessible medium. Heck, even the lousy stuff eventually ends up on DVD in the hope that someone will buy it.

      Oh yeah, and the only explanation for "Legend Of The Rangers" that makes sense is that it was a pilot for a new show. Although if they do decide to go ahead with a new Rangers show I hope it fares better than Crusade did.
    • The reason is the network that's picking this up. I'm not going to subscribe to a general movie channel to watch a sci fi series.

      If the show is any good it will probably be syndicated like SG-1 is.

      I was a big fan of B5 but missed most of the first season because of our local channel that aired it. They never could find a slot for it that worked and moved it around too much for me to keep up. It wasn't until TNT finally picked it up that I got to see them all. Its possible that experience with B5 could have been the common place in many markets which might have led him to shop it to cable and Showtime showed the most interest. I'd like to hear JMS's take though. But yeah, I'm not going to subscribe to Showtime for one show. I already do that with HBO.
    • Legend of the Rangers was not short lived or a spin-off, it was a one-off movie that just air recently.

      The short lived spin-off, staring Lumberg from, "Office Space" as the captain of the Excalibur was, "Crusade". It had potential, but I don't think it was given the necessary production budget to make it worthwhile.
      • Blockquoth the poster:

        Legend of the Rangers was not short lived or a spin-off, it was a one-off movie that just air recently.

        Well, yes and no. The actual spin-off was Crusade, and this was not that. But there is some thought that SciFi might turn Legend of the Rangers into a running series, which explains why it had a subtitle.

    • Re:To JMS: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Arrghman ( 172552 )
      Crusade was canned by TNT before it ever even aired on TV due to 'creative disparities' (AKA, TNT wanted more scantly clad ladies and fight, JMS said no, plug was pulled).

      And B5:LR is a potential pilot for a new series, which may or may not get picked up by Scifi... the jury's still out on that...
      • Er, Crusade was canned before the first episode aired? I'd not heard the news of its demise until several episodes had aired (shame too, because reportedly the next episode to be filmed involved Bester)

    • Re:To JMS: (Score:5, Interesting)

      by mbourgon ( 186257 ) on Wednesday February 27, 2002 @08:33PM (#3081545) Homepage
      Actually, JMS said that there were two reasons he decided to do this new show:
      1) Complete creative control
      2) Big budget. He could make "his idea" of the show a reality.

      And, just to be a karma whore... straight from JMS on rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated:

      I haven't talked a lot about Jeremiah here because, basically, I haven't had time to put my thoughts together due to the rigors of actually *making* the
      thing. But we're now closing in on the premiere, and I figured this might be a good time to start laying out some of the information. (This will, however, be kinda brief because I'm fighting a bit of a fever and intend to go lay down after this.)

      The Showtime series tracks the aftermath of the Big Death, which wiped out roughly six billion people, anyone over the age of puberty. It's now 15 years
      later, and people have been ridinng on the ashes of the old world for the most part, the available resources slowly declining and running out. It's a moment of transition: either the decline continues, or now that they are adults, people start to rebuild a new world out of the ashes of the old one. The question is what shape will that world take, and who gets to choose?

      Our lead character, Jeremiah (Luke Perry) is a wanderer, trying to find out what happened to his father, who disappeared during the last days of the Big Death while en route to a locale specified only as Valhalla Sector. He wants to find out the end of the story. Along the way, he encounters our other lead, Kurdy (Malcolm Jamal-Warner), also a drifter, and the two are thrown together by circumstance into a duo. The two-hour premiere follows their lives, the dangers they encounter, establishes the world of our series, and sets the stage for a new dawn.

      Basically, I wanted to do a post-apocalyptic series that wasn't all darkness and grimness...I wanted to tell a story about hope, that this isn't about
      endings, it's about beginnings. When the Black Death hit, lots of people thought it was the end of the world. It wasn't. What followed the Black Death was the Renaissance, a new beginning, as our characters face a new beginning.
      [JMS continued with an episode list]
    • You act as if he had a choice in this; most likely, he didn't; or that is to say, if it was a choice, it wasn't an equal one. To get a new sci-fi serious on the air is difficult as it is (unless you're Star Trek). Given the tremendous support Showtime has given to Stargate SG-1 (_regardless_ of what you think of the recent episodes; the series wouldn't have happened if it weren't for Showtime, certainly not in such an impressive fashion), accepting a deal with them is simply smart thinking.

      Anyhow, it'll eventually trickle out into syndication like Stargate SG-1 and then we'll all be able to enjoy it (and if some fans care enough to subscribe and show Showtime that there really is a strong audience for sci-fi programming, all the better). Sure, the SG1 episodes I see now may be 2 years old, but I'm just damn glad that such an excellent show exists at all.
  • The show looks good, and if I had free time and got Showtime I might actually watch it. I think I'll just download it in a few months.

  • LUKE PERRY?!!! (Score:1, Redundant)

    by shut_up_man ( 450725 )
    The main guy (Jeremiah) is played by Luke Perry.... sorry, that kinda puts the series waaaaayyyyyy down there to begin with.
  • Checking out the few photos on the site, I noticed the Richard Deen Anderson-ish poses of Luke Perry, like in this photo [jeremiah.tv] that looks more like some SG1 episode... ;-)
  • I wonder if there will be characters that go back in time to try to get information about the virus, so they know how to stop it in the future, and get back on top, in charge of the planet. Terry Gilliam would be so proud.

  • Maybe I'll try it out, but... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Skyshadow ( 508 ) on Wednesday February 27, 2002 @07:52PM (#3081352) Homepage
    I could never really peg down why I disliked B5 so much. I mean, it had a lot of things going for it: a story arc, a vision of a flawed future where some aliens were more powerful than humans, etc.

    But it *bugged* me. And it was beyond just the (extremely) crappy dialog, wooden acting and contrived plot happenings -- hell, if it were just that I wouldn't have liked TNG, either.

    There was just something about the plot and characters that bothered the hell out of me, especially after JMS started writing all of the episodes. It got so bad that I would occassionally watch, but relied on episode guide websites to keep up with the happenings with the story arc.

    Man, B5 bothered me. Yes, I'm aware that I sound a little on the neurotic side.

    • I have a friend that's the same way. He was able to put his finger on one additional thing: "those guys with the hair." You know who I mean.

      I think that the whole Centauri thing was far and away the best part of the show... the Londo/G'kar relationship, the shenannigans in in the royal court back on Centauri Prime, the mad emperor... Man, that stuff was cool. Too bad my buddy could never see past the hair.
    • I enjoyed Babylon 5 immensely, but it was a deeply flawed show; it used too many stock sci-fi situations, and the characters could often be pulpish and 2-dimensional.

      I think the problem might have been stretched out too much. The storyline just wasn't enough to sustain that many seasons.

      • Re:Maybe I'll try it out, but... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Bodrius ( 191265 ) on Wednesday February 27, 2002 @10:00PM (#3081908) Homepage
        I really liked B5, but I have to admit in the end I watched it out of loyalty for the good parts of the series, rather than because of its final quality.

        I still think it was one of the best SF shows ever, but I can't help but think they went downwards since the first season, even though the story was supposed to actually start much later.

        It seems to me that B5 was at its best before it became an epic story. During the first seasons (the prelude?) the characters were complex and subtle, the politics made sense, the storylines were interesting... you had a great sense of foreboding.

        But when the epic started, the characters became complicated and yes, pulpish. The acting quality decreased. All sense of subtlety was lost, which also killed almost all the sense of mistery in the storylines. It seems their ambitious story made them lose control of the narrative.
  • The main reason to pick a story about postapocalyptic humanity is that the sets are cheap and the costumes are rags. The downside is that no matter what your angle, a story based on the demise of billions of people is depressing.

    William shatner says hes doesn't understand Star Trek's success. [http://www.cnn.com/2002/SHOWBIZ/News/02/22/shatne r.lkl/index.html]
    Well why should he? Is just an actor. But Gene Roddenberry knew.

    Star trek has a very forward view of the future, one where there is hope and success. Based on humanity "working it out", not being "wiped out".

    If you want to make a hit, do a show that is connected to the present, that shows the fruits of out labors and dreams, not the failure of them.

    • Re:Postapocalyptic depression (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Our Man In Redmond ( 63094 ) on Wednesday February 27, 2002 @08:15PM (#3081470)
      Well, wars are depressing, but people make good war movies. If done right you could have one hell of a series about the remnants of humanity trying to piece itself back together.

      You also have lots of room to explore. What will we try to recreate? Will we still have baseball and soccer? Will Sun Tzu and von Clausewicz still be relevant? Will we have clean water? Countries? How will we communicate with people in the next town or halfway around the world? What happens to religion? Do we use a near-apocalypse as proof that God exists and has spared us, or as proof that God doesn't exist because He wouldn't have allowed this to happen, or do new mythologies spring up built around the darkest days of the End of the World As We Knew It?

      The trick will be in doing it right. Bad sci-fi is easy. Good speculative fiction is all too rare.
      • I think you missed part of my point. [probably because I accidently posted before I was finished with the post. Ack!]
        The problem with the idea of mass destruction and worldwide system-failure is that the "we" you mention doesn't include the viewer. Its sort of like a slap in the face that says "you died" and everything you ever did or were amounted to a pile of dust.
        I think war movies are different because the viewer has a historial connection to the story.

        To be compelling, a story must have an emotional impact on the viewer. Its hard to care about characters in the far future who have no association with anything real.

        The best evidence of this is the stunning failure of the slew of post-apocalyptic movies that have been made.
        • Don't you hate it when that happens? :)

          In my mind a lot of of doing this right would be the scale and the viewpoint. If only three dozen people survive the Apocalypse that's not as interesting as if, say, 10% of humanity survived. In dramatic terms that means there need to be main characters the viewer can identify with, lots of other characters to interact with and lots of interesting things for all of them to do. Of course "I died with everyone I know and cared about and here are these people picking through my remains" is less interesting than "Hey, I could be doing the stuff these people are doing." Done right this goes from a story about people walking across your grave, as it were, to people surviving against incredible odds.

          I'm not saying it would be easy, but I think it's possible if you get the right people doing it.

          By the way, one of the best post-apocalyptic stories I know of had everybody on Earth dying suddenly with only a couple of survivors. But then "The Hitch-Hiker's Guide To The Galaxy" broke so many rules that you can't really use it as an example. :)
      • If done right you could have one hell of a series about the remnants of humanity trying to piece itself back together.

        I think that's where he's going. In that post, he made a point of mentioning how the Renaissance grew out of the Black Plague. He sees the Big Death as a similar inflection point in history. This either spurs a new era of growth, or marks the beginning of the end.

        Which is why I have high hopes for this series. Plenty of direct-to-video MST3K fodder has been produced about a declining post-apocalypse. I would expect JMS to have a higher standard. After all, we did tell the Vorlons to bugger off. :-) And I, for one, am glad it's on Showtime, and not on Sci-Fi, TNT, or some other commercial-fed network. Pay-TV networks are more willing to take risks, and I can't imagine JMS accepting the deal if it didn't come with the sort of control he expects.

    • "If you want to make a hit, do a show that is connected to the present, that shows the fruits of out labors and dreams, not the failure of them."

      If you'd actually READ THE ARTICLE, maybe you'd read that this is precisely what JMS is doing. He points to how people thought that after the Black Death, the world would end. it didn't; in fact, the Renaissance followed on its heels.

      He wants to show how, after this "Big Death," people discover a chance to re-mold the world into a way that maybe is more of a utopia.

      Take the whole world apart piece by piece, look at the lessons learned from the past, and try to put it all back together the right way. That's what JMS says he's after. That's not depressing... that is hopeful.

  • So I assume this means... (Score:4, Funny)

    by gorsh ( 75930 ) on Wednesday February 27, 2002 @08:07PM (#3081423)
    ..that Captain Gideon and the crew of the Excalibur were unsuccessful in finding the cure for the Drakh plague.
    • That reminds me, I still have one unwatched episode of Crusade left on my Tivo, from sometime last year, that I still haven't watched. I saw it the first time around, but for as amazing as (the first four seasons of) B5 was, Crusade mostly sucked.

      I think part of the problem with the fifth season of B5, Crusade, and to some degree Legend of the Rangers, was kind of a too-much-of-a-good-thing syndrome. For example, in B5, [what's her name, the woman commander] gives a nice speech before attacking the Earth fleet, about being death incarnate and all of that. The speech was a bit cliche if taken out of context, but for the situation and the character it worked well. Mostly because through the show, she only gave a few speeches like that, maybe one or two a season. When they happened they were pretty cool, but then there are characters on Crusade that only talk in fancy speeches. It's too much, they lose all impact and end up just being cheesy Shatneresque spewing.

      I am sure JMS still has it in him to make a good show, but I think he really needs to go back and watch the third and fourth seasons of B5, and maybe In the Beginning, and see what the balance was that really made them work. Don't just take the best bits and try to only use those in a show.
      • That reminds me, I still have one unwatched episode of Crusade left on my Tivo, from sometime last year, that I still haven't watched. I saw it the first time around, but for as amazing as (the first four seasons of) B5 was, Crusade mostly sucked.

        The B5-fan in me makes me write this reply:

        Crusade sucked because it was _not_ JMS's show. TNT, which had picked up B5 after the dissolution of PTEN (which was responsible for B5 in syndication), also picked up Crusade. Unfortunately, it occured around the same time that TNT decided to "refocus" on its core demographic of 19-23 yo males -- via the ever-popular venue of pro wrestling.

        A high science fiction show, like Crusade, doesn't exactly fit terribly well with that target audience. To correct that fatal flaw, the TNT execs began pushing JMS to add features into the series, and they exercised much more creative control than was appropriate for even network executives.

        All of the Crusade episodes before "Racing the Night" were specificially ordered by TNT to "introduce" viewers to the series -- JMS's plan was to begin the series in media res. The SciFi channel is airing the episodes in a "mostly correct" order, as sanctioned by JMS, but the TNT-ordered episodes are still lin there.

        The uniform switching, by the way, was also a result of the TNT meddling -- any episodes that have the cast wearing uniforms seen in Racing the Night would be JMS-originals.

        As related to Jerimiah, JMS has said that he will never, ever do a series again when he does not have near absolute creative control. When announcing the project, he said that he was happy to work with Showtime because they don't have the limits that network TV imposes on him (so this might be bad news for anyone relying on scifi/network syndication). So far as I've seen him write, he's had no creative issues, and it's his series.

        • Crusade sucked because it was _not_ JMS's show.

          Thanks, that answered many of my questions. I can certainly see how somebody could have committeed Crusade to death. I can just see the spec sheet now: (semi-)attractive female alien character, (semi-)evil corporate guy, potentially-cool but way overdone guy, etc., the Vorlon ambassador guy with the mysterious past was popular, so every character should have a mysterious past!

          The characters in B5 started out a bit 2-dimensional, but I think that was on purpose. As the motives for all of the characters became clear they took on much more depth, and of course the characters changed in response to the changing situtations, etc.

    • ..that Captain Gideon and the crew of the Excalibur were unsuccessful in finding the cure for the Drakh plague.

      It's been moderated "Funny," but I think it's a real question worth asking. Everything I've read about this show kinda sorta vaguely points to that actually being the set-up, and JMS doesn't refer directly to the B5 universe simply because the rights are owned by another company.

      Does anyone know for sure?

      • Events in Babylon 5 show that a cure for the plague was found. Dr. Franklin was on Mars without being isolated in 2281, even though crusade shows him 15 years earlier infected with the plague in an episode. And the plague was supposed to wipe out everyone within 5 years of the start.

        JMS has also stated that the plague was not going to be the primary focus of Crusade and that a cure would be found in the second season and that Crusade would move in awhole different direction.
  • Hrm, you don't normally suspect Showtime to be airing a sci-fi series. Guess they're trying to get lucky and pull off what HBO did with The Sopranos. Also, "jeremiah" is an awfully odd name for someone nowadays (i didnt see anywhere it said it was based in the past), doesn't seem very catchy either.

    • Re:The name (Score:2, Informative)

      by IronChef ( 164482 )
      Hrm, you don't normally suspect Showtime to be airing a sci-fi series.

      Stargate
      Outer Limits
      Total Recall

      off the top of my head...

    • Also, "jeremiah" is an awfully odd name for someone nowadays...


      85th most common name [ssa.gov] for boys born in the US in 2001. Ahead of "Miguel", interestingly enough.

    • Re:The name (Score:5, Informative)

      by gilroy ( 155262 ) on Wednesday February 27, 2002 @09:29PM (#3081737) Homepage Journal
      Blockquoth the poster:

      Also, "jeremiah" is an awfully odd name for someone nowadays

      Besides being the 85th most common name in 2001 (as mentioned by someone else), Jeremiah is also a prophet of the Old Testament. Quoting liberally from The Prophet Jeremiah [huji.ac.il]:

      The prophet Jeremiah was active in Jerusalem during the tragic period of the city's destruction by the Babylonians, which occurred over several stages... Jeremiah prophesied an ineluctable, unavertible disaster... Jeremiah castigated the people bitterly for forsaking God and the Torah and turning to idolatry. With a sense of the inevitability of a terrible punishment, he felt disgusted with his life. Gradually he became the leading exponent of the approach which called for surrender to Babylonian might and not attempting a rebellion against its awesome strength under the auspices of Egypt... Although Jeremiah was saliently a prophet of apocalypse, he emphasized the temporary nature of the destruction and the consolation to be found in the certainty of the nation's return to its land. (emphasis added)

      Not really hard to see a connection to the show's theme, is it?

  • ...is looking overrated.

    B5 had me waaaaay wrapped up until the end of the shadow war. *THAT* so pissed me off with its ridiculous anticlimax ending I couldn't watch the end of the series.

    Then there was Crusade...*flinch*

    Then there was Legend of the Rangers...and, umm, bleh. Talk about introducing continuity errors!

    Now. Luke Perry? ummmm...

    Like I said...looking like the Brain Eater got him.

  • So don't you dare moderate me as redundant. No one makes the connection, and I'm not sure if it's there. But is this a Babylon 5 sequel? Nothing about the time period, or technology (except gasoline use, does that count?) rules it out. And we already know that much of earth would be devastated before the shadow virus was contained/fixed/cured.

    Then again, am I getting this confused with the period when the rangers were working covertly to rebuild earth?

    Please let there be a B5 sequel that doesn't suck. Please. Bringing back G'kar for a crappy pilot where you try to invent bad guys badder than the shadows just stinks.
  • Big B5 fan, Big H. Ellison(sp?) fan and so I took note of the credit to Ellison at the end of the B5 episodes. Ellison is a heavyweight writer compared to most of the TV fluff regurgitators. Yes, you can hurl fluff, it comes out soggy but dries quickly. It comes from the dust bunnies most TV writers inhaled when hidding/retreving their pron collections from under their beds. I always whimsically attributed the best of what was B5 to Ellison.

  • based on belgian comic (Score:3, Informative)

    by h0bbes ( 32318 ) on Wednesday February 27, 2002 @08:27PM (#3081514)
    It's based on the belgian comic "Jeremiah" by Hermann [hermannhuppen.com]. It's a pretty decent comic imho, but apparently Hermann didn't have a lot of control over the TV adaption... It'll probably be a while before I get to see it here in Belgium anyways... He also published a great comic about the war in Yugoslavia : Sarajevo Tango [dupuis-entertainment.com] More info here [hermannhuppen.com] (in french), here [skynet.be] and here [tudelft.nl] (dutch).

  • erm I think you've missed something (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    as I understand it this isn't all JMS own work. Jeremiah is based on Platinum Studios' graphic novel series by Belgian author Hermann Huppen.

    http://www.comics2film.com/JeremiahArch.shtml
  • I enjoyed B5, despite the hoops you had to jump through to see it all in the UK.

    I always thought JMS would do a good job with the Reality Dysfunction trilogy [virgin.net] by Peter F Hamilton [virgin.net], if it was ever televised.

    The books are pure space opera, with a bit of moral and social theme. But the universe and characters are just great. Giving the whole thing a Strazinsky (sp?) twist would work nicely.

    Anyone else care to give there take on this?

    Alex
  • It better be damn good. I'm talking so good that chicks will dig me more ;)
  • I love good science fiction, but face it. The acting and writing in the Babylon 5 series was bad. It was painful to watch - some of the most overused and obvious cliches passing for dialog.

    And now what? A killer virus? Post-apocalyptic visions of the world with leather-clad heroes? Give me a break. That's just a lack of imagination.

  • Sitting at the fire (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bill.sheehan ( 93856 ) on Wednesday February 27, 2002 @08:55PM (#3081623) Homepage
    I have just finished watching an episode from the second season of "Earth, Final Conflict." I watched it with the stunned fascination of someone seeing a car wreck. How could a show with so many good ideas have gone bad so quickly?

    Answer: The writers. It's all about the writers. It's always all about the writers. It's about the writers remembering one simple thing: the people sitting around the campfire asking the bard or shaman, "Tell us a story. Tell us a story about noble kings and fearsome battles and tender loves. Tell us a story about ourselves, our secret fears, our greatest hopes. Tell us a story.

    I'm not an SF fanboy, but I do love good SF. There's so little of it about. JMS loves good SF too, and it shows in his storytelling. JMS also loves history, Scripture, legend, fable, and humanity. Humanity most of all. He once said

    "As an atheist, I believe that all life is unspeakably precious, because it's only here for a brief moment, a flare against the dark, and then it's gone forever. No afterlives, no second chances, no backsies. So there can be nothing crueler than the abuse, destruction or wanton taking of a life. It is a crime no less than burning the Mona Lisa, for there is always just one of each.

    "So I cannot forgive. Which makes the notion of writing a character who CAN forgive momentarily attractive...because it allows me to explore in great detail something of which I am utterly incapable. I cannot fly, so I would write of birds and starships and kites; I cannot play an instrument, so I would write of composers and dancers; and I cannot forgive, so I would write of priests and monks and Minbari..."

    I am sitting eagerly by the fireside, awaiting any tale JMS wants to tell. Because when he's good, which is usually, he's one of the finest storytellers of our age.

    • Second season? Oh hell, you have a long way to go, it gets worse; much worse.

      It's so bad now I find it hard to fathom why they continue it.
    • So JMS is "utterly incapable" of forgiveness, eh? What a terrible burden it must be for him, to carry all that resentment around with him. (Certainly this explains why he didn't take criticism of his show too well.)

      An incomparably finer storyteller in a different age once wrote some words which JMS should take to heart, they start like this: "The quality of mercy is not strained..."

      (Oh, and one more thing: "one of the finest storytellers of our age"? Your judgment is abandoning you, Bill. Just because he's an atheist doesn't make him a good writer. And anybody who could write "Thirdspace" isn't that fine a storyteller.)
      • No fault of yours, but I took his quote out of context. What he's talking about is being unable to forgive murder.

        I stand by my assessment of his skills as a storyteller, however. We're talking about writing for television, telling a story in four 12-minute blocks once a week, twenty-odd weeks a year, for five years. Aaron Sorkin is the only other writer I can think of who does it as well, and he's getting his material from the Washington Post.

        He gets no special credit from me for being an atheist. Where he does get credit is for embracing faith, spirituality, and religion in his stories and characters.

        I'm neither a writer nor an English literature major, but if I were to try and pick the one element that puts JMS (and Sorkin) at the top, it is their understanding of resonance. They (like you) refer to Shakespeare, Scripture, myths, and so forth. Those familiar with the references are rewarded by a much deeper understanding of the characters and stories. This is where writers like Brannon Braga (gack!) fail - they don't have the education and background in literature and end up relying on formula.

        In the end, it's all a matter of taste. I like JMS. I like Sorkin. I loathe Braga. I also like A&W Diet Root Beer, so what can you say?

  • A virus wipes out most everyone, giving us a chance to start fresh. What to get rid of?

    RIAA and ICANN. Can certainly do without them!

    Any other (light-hearted) suggestions?
  • Showtime is showing the first episode three times. With DirecTV I get both east and west coast showtimes, so a total of six showings.

    All six are conflicted. Coincidence, or a purposeful attempt to make me go buy a dualduner PVR?
  • I will start by saying that I really liked B5 (a lot... I think it's probably the most amazing science-fiction epic ever attempted).

    Yeah, there were a lot of embarrassing moments in it, and quite a bit of trite dialog.

    What was great about it was the it so devoutly tried to be good. There's so much crap on TV these days, that I just have to give JMS credit for sticking to his guns and telling a story.

    Even if it was a bit of a cheesy space opera when all is said and done.

    I guess what I'm waiting to hear is whether this series also is going to try to be good. I'm skeptical that the Showtime management will allow that.

    But then I was skeptical when it was announced that Bruce Boxleitner was going to be the new lead on B5 too.

    That's really just as scary as Luke Perry being in this one...

  • SciFi and Hormones... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Genda ( 560240 ) <mariet@go[ ]et ['t.n' in gap]> on Wednesday February 27, 2002 @09:24PM (#3081713) Journal
    I've been watching a steady shift over the last several years from SciFi that had previously been kinda fun and thoughtful... to thinly veiled mastabation fodder for pimply faced boys, who have a small interest in science and a major interest in hot babes in tight rubber suits.

    Some twenty-something executive at MGM, who retired as a teen-something executive at MTV, decides what "SG-1" needs is to off the geek and replace him with hot bods to make the pubescent crowd stay tuned. The last season of "Earth, Final Conflict" has been so nasty it makes peoples brains bleed. The last couple seasons of "Voyager" had degenerated into some kind of soap opera that just happened by chance, to be located somewhere in the galaxy other than Earth. What do all these things have in common? The same push to shift SciFi into some kind of primtime porn-light... all that's missing is the Ka-Chunka-Chunka music... Think about it... silly plots, no cohesive threads, flat acting, and lots of sexual titillation. Of course since it's aimed at young'ens, you got to keep the titillation to just pokes and peeks (you don't want the religious folks chasing you with torches and pitchforks), but the innuendo still lives.

    I am so sick and tired of people doing stupid shit by rote, like there is some kind of magic in the act, without thought or consideration to impact or consequence. Screw with a good show to kick up the pimple demographic and oops there goes the adult and women viewers! Oh, so sorry! Take the brains out of a show, destroy the entire freaking premise, and make it about some foxy chick battling scantily clad sexy aliens. Scuse me while I puke...

    The worst is a whole spate of new shows (most of which were thankfully stillborn), that didn't even bother to suck the brain out of a decent show, but just started off as a sexy SciFi/Fantasy babe doing whatever... They're not even waiting till they've suckered in a crowd of viewers now, they're just going straight after the pimply demographic.

    I'll watch the first few episodes, beause I like to give folks an even break. However, I expect the producers of this show to give me something worth staying for. Something clever, thought provoking, a whole lot more than the tripe that is currently aimed at socially challenged pubescent geeks in dire need of a suitable sexual targets upon which to fixate. Dressing Penthouse Pets up in aluminum catsuits with flashing lights is not my idea of good SciFi...

    Then again, who knows this may be just someone else's cup... all ya need is a little KY and some Oxy-Five?

    • JMS (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Brendan Byrd ( 105387 )
      If you've been keeping up with JMS's history with series, he doesn't take it up the ass just to ruin the story. He's been fighting the good fight to make sure his series doesn't get vamped up for bigger breasts and more action. If he doesn't like what the producers do, he says no (and it likely gets canned, like Crusade did).

      As JMS has said, he's not going the TNT route again, and will never do a show unless he has complete control, which is why he's on Showtime. (Me wonders about why Showtime is screwing over SG-1, though.)

  • The Jeremiah characters and story line (Score:3, Informative)

    by descubes ( 35093 ) on Wednesday February 27, 2002 @09:30PM (#3081741) Homepage
    More information about the characters and story line can be found there [hermannhuppen.com]. The original is in French, and the fish doesn't translate pictures yet, but you can find an example of the artwork [hermannhuppen.com] on the site.
  • B5 was crusing fine until Season 4

    Since then we had

    - Angstmaster-2000 telepathic poets in space actually called Byron (start of B5 Season 5)

    - Crusade, with special effects *worse* then then those available in computer games at the time. Oh and Technomages. Shudder. One of those shows not so much cancelled as dragged out the back and put out of our misery.

    - The Legends of the Rangers Tae-Bo Weapons System, and a moral creed lifted straight out of "Galaxy Quest" (NEVER GIVE UP! NEVER SURRENDER!)

    Give him a strict budget, some different writers and a pre-planned polished storyline, and he's fine.

    Let him run free, and it's a disaster. I call it FrankHerbertitis (Frank Herbert + John Campbell [ed] = Dune. Frank Herbert on his own = Dune Messiah, Children of Dune, God Emperor of Dune, Heretics of Dune...)

    On the bright side, at least we have Gene Roddenenbury back, in $pirit if not in flesh...
  • It stars the unwatchable Luke Perry. Of course, I managed to love the first season of Babylon 5 despite the unwatchable Michael O'Hare... so I will give this one a go. Hey, I just upgraded my DirecTiVo to 225 hours, I got room for the entire B5 series and all the B5 movies (will SciFi run it once more so I can do this?) and still have plenty of room left over for Jeremiah, so why not?

    I notice we've managed to /. Google groups... is that a first? By the way, how much do you think I could get on eBay for a TiVo filled with every B5 episode? (j/k :)
  • Anyone know of a source for this TV series other than Showtime? Usenet newsgroup? Web site? Getting Showtime would cost me another $18/month.
  • ("The mountains labored, and gave birth to a ridiculous mouse." From Q. Horatius Flaccus.)

    That line just about sums up my opinion of "Babylon 5". After years of ceremonious buildup, and plenty of self-promotion from JMS on various online forums, after the mountains labored, they gave birth to a rather mean little story about how mankind is grown up now, and doesn't need the guidance of the wicked, bad, nasty, manipulative Shadows and Vorlons. Ugh. Let's not talk about Season Five, or all of the spinoffs from a show which, as an early episode reminded us, wasn't supposed to be just another "deep space franchise".

    Add to this the fact that JMS's ear for dialogue, especially comic dialogue, was often terrible (I cringe at the thought of Bruce Boxleitner saying "Abso-fraggin-lutely"), and suddenly "Jeremiah" doesn't look like anything to get worked up about.
  • ...that JMS still has his grudge against SFX magazine. How petty does that look?
  • My girlfriend grew up "the ghost state of former Yugoslavia" as someone put it. She says there were tons of good quality graphic novels/comics, they were widely read & not just by schoolchildren & morons, but the vast majority of those titles are unheard of outside Europe. As well as Jeremiah, she was a big fan of "Alan Ford", google for it, it's excellent.

    Anyways, I was showing her the Net & demonstrating Google by looking for Jeremiah-related stuff; we found a preview announcement of the film. She read the synopsis / setup for the film & says this is (a) changed a lot, and (b) based on the first half of the first issue. So, original comic book much better than p8in-off TV show / movie... film at 11.


    Anyone have news on the long-awaited Watchmen film? I'm just re-reading it, I always forget how excellent it is. Alan Moore knows the score...

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