
MPAA Finds First Actual DVD Copiers in U.S. 418
MattW writes: "Yahoo! is reporting that the first pirate DVD bust has occurred. Funny, isn't it, how the pirates don't need to crack any encryption to make copies of DVDs, but we have to ban DeCSS anyhow?"
1 down... (Score:2)
Re:1 down... (Score:2)
It took just one week after one of the reels got stolen in the US for the first copies to appear
If they are starting to bust pirate DVDs now this means that the pirates have been printing for two years with no control. Unfortunately in order to tell somene that he/she is a laughing stock in the modern world you need to own the media. Hence, you cannot tell the ones that own the media that they are laughing stock.
This will not do... (Score:4, Insightful)
I think that's two bad arguments rolled into one. They are going after individual lawbreakers, which is futile as long as there is a profit in it. They are using the government to rubber-stamp legislation to shackle technology and innovation without understanding it. And, in your own words, like the drug war, it's all for nothing.
You've got to admire the logic you are espousing,
I mean, imagine it: someone hears one day that you can cure a mild cold by shooting yourself in the foot. He figures, 'what the hell,' goes out and buys a gun, blows a couple of toes off and the bullet misses the neighbors head by inches.
The cold persists through it's normal course and eventually the bandages come off. Despite the lack of favorable results (and the hole in the neighbor's cieling), the next time he gets the sniffles, he reaches for his revolver...
Something about this is wrong.
There it goes. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Correction (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Pocket Pool (Score:3, Informative)
Okay. So how do you propose we set up a serious fund that gets the politicians into our pockets? Consider:
Re:Pocket Pool (Score:3, Funny)
Ugh. Does that mean we have to marry our representatives? They say politics makes strange bedfellows, but...
:)
Question: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Question: (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Question: (Score:2, Informative)
Course, if you're getting to see the movie/tv series/whatever months ahead of everyone else, you tend not to complain too much.
Re:Question: (Score:2)
Re:Question: (Score:2)
Re:Question: (Score:3, Insightful)
I was in a shop and they had a sign stating that shoplifting was a crime, I guess murder is legal. Stating that something is illegal does not automatically make everything else legal.
The Slashdot Collective's idea of Fair Use (Score:3, Insightful)
Where do you get this idea? Fair use has only ever meant either redistributing small portions, for review, commentary, or criticism (I think use in new artistic works might be debated, although most people doing so don't attempt it), or archival copies for your own personal use.
These uses are under heavy attack, and need to be defended.
What you are talking about is NOT fair use, and it has been illegal as long as we've had copyright.
Seriously...Slashdot needs to have an explaination of what Fair Use is right on the front page, above the banner ads.
OT: GPL (Score:3, Interesting)
Somewhat OT...
<suspicious look> Is this a troll, or just an honest (mis)understanding? As far as I know, fair use does apply to the software industry. And yes you can take a GPL'd piece of software and use it any way you wish. This is probably the most misunderstood / overlooked clause in the GPL:
Does that settle the matter? Copyright law treats use (or fair use) much differently from duplication, aka redistribution.
Don't be fooled by commercial EULAs, or "click-thru" licenses. They do not fall under copyright law at all - they fall under contract law, and as such, it is unknown if they are actually valid or enforceable, since you never actually signed them. Of course the software industry will say they are legal, but think about it - that's what they would say.
Actually, the GPL is also a contract, but note that in that case it doesn't matter if you sign it or not, since it adds to the rights you already have (fair use) by giving you certain rights of redistribution. If you disagree with it, you haven't lost anything - you just don't get those additional rights. By contrast most EULAs take away rights you should have - the right to use the software in any way you see fit, on as many computers (that you own) as you wish. So the question of whether you enter the contract or not is important in that case.
(Go ahead, mod me offtopic, you know you want to. (: )
Re:Question: (Score:2, Informative)
"Wholly inferior" is a pretty fair statement.
Digital copies. (Score:3, Interesting)
Could someone please explain to me how a digital copy could be "wholly inferior" to the original media?
Not that I condone the actions of these people, but honestly...it's not like we're talking (S|X)VCDs...
Re:Digital copies. (Score:2, Funny)
DVD to VCD maybe? (Score:3, Insightful)
Give it a year or 2 though & it definitly will be.
Re:DVD to VCD maybe? (Score:2, Informative)
www.cdrecordable.com
$2 blank DVD's.
Once again, not affiliated with them at all. Just a business I have had good luck with.
$2 for a blank DVD, vs. anywhere from $10 - $30 for a store-bought one. I'd say there's a market, sadly.
Chris
economies of scale of pirating DVDs. (Score:5, Informative)
In traditional Slashdot fashion, I will now pull some prices out of my ass (sorry, that would be the Internet) and will "do the math."
The entry cost is not high. Less than $7k to profit.
Here's a DVD dupe machine with a 100-disc hopper: http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.asp?EDC=
Here's a spindle of 100 DVDs http://shop.store.yahoo.com/spectraimpex1/100pacd
Now load your dupe machine once a day for ten days.
Pick up the DVDs when finished and sell them to your dealers for $700/spindle. (they will then be resold at $10-$15/each, a very healthy profit for a street vendor.)
You have just paid for the DVD dupe machine and have made $500. You probably invested twenty hours in buying the hardware, setting it up, testing, and smoking pot with your dealers.
From now on, for every 5 hours you invest in buying and burning another 100 copies, you'll make $450. Not bad, eh?
The getting busted and going to jail part might suck, but you can get around this by doing the duping in a friendly environment. Of course friendly environments sometimes take a little away from the bottom line, but booze is cheaper in those places anyway.
Cheers,
JB
Re:Digital copies. (Score:2)
Re:Digital copies. (Score:4, Informative)
In this case it looks like it's a byte-by-byte copy, which means of-course a full digital copy including the CSS copy protection info.
Re:Digital copies. (Score:2)
Some of the movies found haven't yet been released to video, including "The Lord of the Rings," "Training Day" and "Ali."
How else are they going to get them.
Re:Digital copies. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Digital copies. (Score:2, Informative)
There is a 2CD DivX of such a copy of LotR floating 'round the net. The quality of this DivX is excellent (much better than most DVD rips, so I assume that the source material is DVD)
B.t.w. To the MPAA and other interested parties: I've seen LotR twice in the cinema, and yes, I will be buying the DVD when it comes out! The fact that I have access to a DivX rip doesn't change that!
Re:Digital copies. (Score:2)
Some of the movies found haven't yet been released to video, including "The Lord of the Rings," "Training Day" and "Ali."
--
These likely movie-theater-camcorder copies are probably where the MPAA gets off talking about "inferior products".
Re:Digital copies. (Score:2)
A garage DVD burner possibly has lower reliability and/or life than a professionally manufactured DVD. Note also that he says "inferior product", not "inferior picture". It also probably has a cheaper case and badly copied inserts.
Re:Digital copies. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Digital copies. (Score:2, Informative)
I could be wrong though. Is there such a thing as a dual-layer burner?
Re:Digital copies. (Score:3, Informative)
To my knowledge, such a beast should not be possible.
Commercial dual-layer discs are made by "burning" (actually pressing) two separate layers and then glueing them together with a special adhesive that will allow the light through. One layer clearly has to be semitransparent (no pun intended) so that the laser can read the second layer.
In order to "burn" a dual-layer disc, you'd need to have a laser that would puncture the lower layer during the burning process, but leave the top layer intact. Then a second pass would be required to burn the top layer without damaging the lower layer. I can't believe that would be stable, if such a thing is even possible.
The other option would be to burn two layers and then glue them together. Right. That's gonna work
Sancho
Re:Digital copies. (Score:2, Informative)
Two issues I can think of, these commonets particularly apply to the unreleased movies:
- They were probably filmed with a camera in a theatre, possibly with a few heads of other viewers in the picture, plus some coughing and random cell-phones ringing, audience reactions, etc. So, it may be a "digital recording" but it is digital to analog to analog to digital.
- Doing a good master of a DVD is an art-form in itself. I am pretty sure these pirate films do not have 5.1 sound, anamorphic video, or any of the other things that make a good mastering really look and sound awesome. That takes access to the digital source, some really nice gear, alot of time and some very skilled engineers. This is probably not as noticeable on a $100 player and 10 year old TV, but VERY noticeable on a nice player, 5.1 sound, and digital 16:9 TV. Heck, even some commercial releases get re-released with new mastering done as the original was weak and the movie is popular. (Note: and they feel they can get diehards to buy a second copy).
This is one of the reasons they are so freaked out about DECSS, as it allows for a pure copy with all the original quality included (a bit for bit digital copy). Now don't mistake my comments as backing up the MPAA, they could greatly reduce the pirate market by dropping prices and eliminating region codes.....but this is why they freak out about it.
So, yes, I would agree, the pirate copies are almost certainly WAY inferior to a commercial DVD release of a movie. Not even comparable even.
There is a third reason: That is what the MPAA PR guys are supposed to say.
Re:Digital copies. (Score:2)
This is the same "person" who (can anybody find the link)) whined that protection is necessary because with DVDs the pirates can make perfect copies for the first time.
Which one is it, Sony boy?
Why do we have to keep reminding you! (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Why do we have to keep reminding you! (Score:5, Insightful)
I find it interesting they can claim losses to internet piracy when they don't even have an internet media. Because of that, they are saying that every single internet copy is a pirate copy and that they ose money to it.
What they need to do, to stop piracy, is first lower prices. It's a little hard to pay $35 (in an extreme case, RoboCop Director's cut was about that much...) for a DVD when you know they cost pennies to make. $15 is far more reasonable, but they insist on gouging. No Duh are people going to pirate. The problem is, you just don't know what you are getting when you spend money on a DVD.
Second, they need to provide an internet format. It is ridiculous that they look at how many people are trading movies on the web and then they say "we better stop them!". How come nobody in the industry saw this as a new market and leapt on it? That's a bit ignorant if you ask me, I'm not paying for their mistake. Seems like if 'billions of movies are flying around the web a year...' then somebody would be say 'we think we can make money from that new market.'
The funny thing is, the people using DeCSS aren't typically making money from it. It makes you wonder if fair-use at least partially protects them. Oh well, they got their poorly written DMCA. Seems like it wouldn't be that hard to trap the MPAA or RIAA using the DMCA.
Re:Why do we have to keep reminding you! (Score:3, Informative)
I would find it hard to download an entire DVD (what? several GB or so...) on even a cable connection. Consider the bandwidth required to serve up these movies too, even a 2.56 Tb/s line [slashdot.org] would end up being swamped should enough people try to use the service. Even if some sort of standard allowed better compression rates [ciol.com] than even DivX or MP3 could allow, the size of a DVD could still be more than half a GB. Besides the fact that when I watch a DVD, I want to see absolutely no evidence of any sort of compression... that's why I watch em (well at least nothing I am sohpistocated enough to notice). Even compressed DivX files don't look real great. I agree with you that $35 is highway robbery though - all of the DVDs should be kept under $20 (maybe, just maybe $25 - although I would prefer to not see that until a couple more years go by). New DVD releases would go for the usual $19.99 and not-so-new movies would go for $14.99.
Implementing legit DVD distribution online would be difficult right now, hopefully new connection improvements in the future would allow such data transfer on an individual basis without loss of detail and value.
They don't cost pennies to make!!! (Score:2, Interesting)
Okay, CDs and DVDs are not cheap to produce. Everyone seems to think that the only money studios spend on discs is the actual manufacturing costs. Think about all the extra things that go into a DVD. And the insane amount of money it costs to have a top-quality video and sound studio. Also, the packaging, printing and advertising costs. And the retail markup, which usually doubles the cost (it does with CDs, anyway). Then think about how the people who would watch Robocop is a niche, and the people who would buy the director's cut on DVD is a niche of that niche; and you'll have some idea of where the $35 comes from. I'm not saying they're not making a lot of profit, or they wouldn't make more if they halved their prices, but movie and music studios aren't price-gouging as much as everyone thinks (I do think they're price gouging, for the record, but not as much as everyone thinks.)
Wanna bet? (Score:3, Interesting)
Um, no, I was including that. Check out this site: http://www.moviefxmag.com/ I bought one of their 'mags', it's really a DVD. They charge $10 per disc and it includes 60-90 mins (lost track of time) of behind the scenes footage of a few movies. I find it hard to believe these guys could be in business if it cost more than $1 per DVD to make.
The simple fact of the matter is that the cost of making one DVD disperses across millions of copies being out there. It's a case of the DVD's costing pennies to make is a bigger issue than the cost of producing the content for the DVD.
The MPAA would have little problem selling DVD's for $10 each. If that would prove inprofitable (yeah right), then they'd need to tighten their belts a bit. It is not that hard to make quality content. The reason that a DVD costs say $25 on average over the $17 VHS format (I'm pulling numbers out of my head, I bet I'm not that far off) is that the DVD has higher resolution than the VHS counterpart. Therefore, it's worth more money. They make no mention of the discs being far cheaper to make. Yet VHS stuff has gone down in price as of late.
Trust me, the MPAA seriously inflated the price of their content.
BTW, if you are interested in movie making at all, go to Barnes and Noble or Borders and get this mag, it's called MovieFX I think. Here is the URL, you can find out more there:
http://www.moviefxmag.com/
I was totally shocked when i got one of these guys, gonna subscribe to them.
you may now go back to snuggling with Jack Valenti (Score:2)
What does the MPAA need to do? Obviously, they need to donate a lot of money to Senator Fritz Hollings, so he'll try to make american consumers pay for extra technology to police us. After all, it's worth assuming that every American is just a criminal waiting to commit so we can get more content online and encourage broadband adoption, right?
glad (Score:3, Insightful)
Is it really a bust? (Score:3, Interesting)
A wholly inferior product? (Score:4, Interesting)
Hm... This is an interesting statement. I wonder if the people who they busted were actualy copying existing DVDs, or whether they were instead videotaping movies in theaters (or from other sources) and burning them onto DVDs. In the latter case, I don't think that CSS would be involved at all.
Funny? (Score:2, Funny)
Funny, isn't it, how the pirates don't need to crack any encryption to make copies of DVDs, but we have to ban DeCSS anyhow?
No, not really.
But I thought _all_ pirates use the internet (Score:2, Funny)
DCMA is old news; SSSCA isn't. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:DCMA is old news; SSSCA isn't. (Score:2)
There's no way I am going to remember the new acronym. Along the lines of 'i18n', i propose that the bill be called the 'C4A'.
Excellent point. (Score:5, Insightful)
Even if... (Score:2)
BlackGriffen
Watermark detected. Recording denied. (Score:5, Insightful)
You make it impossible to play on a computer, all you have to do is have a "legitimate" player convert the signal to analog for viewing, and put the analog output in to a computer input, and voila, any protection scheme has just been cracked.
Fast forward three years into the future. CBDTPA-compliant hardware says: "Watermark detected. Recording denied." And your pre-CBDTPA hardware has worn out after years of use. Now what do you do?
Re:Watermark detected. Recording denied. (Score:2, Funny)
Take a trip to Canada, and pick up some Cuban cigars while I'm at it.
Re:Excellent point. (Score:2)
The devil they say is in the details. DeCSS is a very weak encryption scheme, but even as such it wasn't cracked until a Finnish teenager found that a DVD player that had unprotected keys stored in it's firmware. If those keys had been protected according to CSS standards, DeCSS would probably not exist today.
It is quite plausible that an encryptioon scheme could be embedded in something like a DVD player that would be much stronger than DeCSS; a scheme that would effectively be unbreakable for the life of the format, say 20 years. Thinks like DVD Audio and SACD have much stronger encryption than DVD does. Whether or not the execution of these schemes will turn out to be good enough to resist cracking is a much more debatable point. This is where attacks are most likely to succeed.
There is, of course, another issue - making a direct bit-for-bit copy of encrypted media. This is a problem of controlling the duplication hardware which will be very difficult to do world-wide.
The CD player is a different issue altogether - the hardware does not support encyrption, and the schemes being tried now to protect ordinary music CD's are weak hacks being done on an ad-hoc basis.
Digital Video Discs? (Score:4, Insightful)
[emphasis mine]
Funny... I thought the whole reason the MPAA was scared of digital data was because it could be copied perfectly and not create a wholly inferior product. Or maybe it's inferior because Jack doesn't make lots of money off of it.
(not that I support this sort of copying -- this guy was obviously a parasite, trying to live off the work of others)
Re:Digital Video Discs? (Score:5, Funny)
:)
Re:Digital Video Discs? (Score:5, Insightful)
If the master was not videotaped in the theater, the the MPAA member companies must have an internal piracy problem. Their own employees are bootlegging stuff off the production line before it is released. If the bootlegs were not made from videotaped masters, then internal piracy is the only explanation for how this busted operation could have been copying movies to DVD that haven't yet been released to video.
In other words, we can add to their "sins" the fact that consumers are being punished for piracy committed by MPAA members themselves.
Re:Digital Video Discs? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Digital Video Discs? (Score:2)
In any case.. once the studio comes out with a good 'added features' DVD, there's nothing to stop the pirates from bit-coppying the DVD.
I'm pretty sure that the existance of commercial DVD pirates sans-DECSS should be usable in those cases, though... Shows how CSS does bugger-all to prevent commercial pirating, while DECSS is mostly intended to simply allow people to legally view their DVD on an otherwise non(or ill-) supported OS.
Re:Digital Video Discs? (Score:3, Insightful)
Which is, of course, complete and utter bullshit.
You can not just sync frames - if only because NTSC's 30fps and PAL's 25fps are not film's 24fps. Transfering film to either of these formats is an art upon itself.
A high quality DV is nowhere near the quality of a half-descent telesync setup. DV CCD's (at least what they have right now) is not up to snuff, especially insofar as color reproduction goes. If it wasn't, and the quality was so high, why bother shooting on film at all?
The image quality may be indistinguishable in a 1/4sized window on a cheap monitor, but you're not fooling anyone.
Besides, transfering film to a digital format, either by telesync or film scanner, is a costly process - both time and equipment wise. Not to mention the post-transfer work done on DVD material. It's much, much easier to steal a preview DVD or rip a laserdisc than to create a DVD-quality DVD yourself.
Anonymous For Obvios Reasons (Score:3, Interesting)
So if they want to samp out the REAL problem they need to work it out themselves. There will be no police to the rescue here.
This just proves that they arent interested in stamping out copies they are interest in getting some excuse for the SSSCA or whatever it is now.
-Coward, Anonymous
Re:Digital Video Discs? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Digital Video Discs? (Score:4, Insightful)
"Pirated" "bootleg" "warezed" copies (whatever the term of the day is) will always be an inferior product even though they may be a perfect copy.
There's a fundamental difference between product and copy. Businesses have an incentive to produce good products which customers are willing to pay for. w4r3z d00dz have no incentive other than if they happen to feel like it to make copies available.
Like it or not, profit motivates people to work hard. Hard work is what is being paid for, not the bits themselves. Fortunately, it isn't possible to yet copy hard work. If it were, then I doubt so many businesses would fail.
Agriculture is another fine example (from the last time this was discussed). With one bag of oranges, it is possible to grow enough oranges to last an average family for decades, at a cost of near zero (water, 10 square yards of dirt, plant food?). Yet, we pay $4 for a carton of orange juice once a week. Why? Because that carton of orange juice is a better product, even though one can have unlimited w4r3z3d oranges. The convenience of not having to tend an orchard is more valuable than $16/month.
most acronyms in one headline (Score:2, Funny)
Perfect Banner ad (Score:3, Funny)
When I went to this article, I got a flashing red banner ad with the words "COPY DVD'S!!!!" in big white letters.
Now that's what I call targeted advertising. Did anybody else get this, or was it a fluke?
Wild Speculation (Score:2)
It doesn't state any such thing in the story. Where are you getting your details?
Re:Wild Speculation (Score:2)
Re:Wild Speculation (Score:2, Insightful)
As has been brought up over and over from the beginning of DeCSS time, CSS does not prevent bit-by-bit copying. CSS prevents playback on unlicensed (in theory) players. The point there, of course, is to drag in more profits by charging consumer electronics manufacturers to license the CSS decryption.
It's like a password-protected PKZIP file -- I don't need to know what's in it to be able to copy it, I just copy it to another disk.
It seems to me... (Score:2)
As for the 'wholly inferior' comment, is it possible that the DVD's he was talking about had no special features? Granted, I know he's trying to make it sound like pirated DVD's are ripping people off (they arent if they're getting movies out faster...) but it's difficult to imagine that they were able to also get the extra footage that often accompanies DVD's.
Once again, attributions are wrong (Score:5, Informative)
Here is the article [com.com] at the original publisher's site. Ironically, as I am looking at it right now, the accompanying advertisement is about a CD Burner sale at Gateway.
And of course, the article fails to mention that the LOTR and Ali bootlegs were videotaped in the theater, and that is why they were available before the movies were released on video or DVD. It always amazes me that the MPAA chicken-littles allow us to assume that most of the piracy problem is due to their own insiders bootlegging stuff before it is released. You'd think they'd want to make sure we all knew that this stuff was bootlegged with a camcorder in the movie theatre, not ripped off the production line by one of their own.
Re:Once again, attributions are wrong (Score:2)
It's not as if people are copying the whole article and posting it in the comments here....
Oh wait.
Once again, facts are wrong (Score:2)
I've seen a LOTR bootleg DVD (probably not the produced by the guys busted in this article), and it wasn't from a camcorder in a theatre. See this post [slashdot.org] for the details.
Anyone notice - (Score:5, Funny)
http://www.spicycomet.com/offers/dvd/yahoo.html
Look at this - a product that allows you to make "backups" of your DVD's and VHS tapes in DVD format...
HMMM....'
Who was this guy? Who bought his gear? (Score:2)
This very small fish just happens to get busted when the --AAs are trying to brand us all as thieves.
How much was his gear worth? Maybe a tax-deductible hour or tow of Valenti's pay?
I smell a rat.
"wholly inferior product" (Score:3, Funny)
Well, when you copy a wholly inferior product, you get the same thing out, right?
Jagoffs.
No, some actualy are inferior (Score:5, Insightful)
Most likely, these are screeners, or some sort of other illegitimate copies from either a promo video or the distributed film. The quality is --not-- the same as a truly produced DVD, (though it is pretty damn good.)
Overall, I have no qualms about them arresting these people. This isn't just casual piracy. This is fairly serious bootlegging which, as much as I hate to say it, does impose an adverse effect on the studios' bottom line.
Imagine, would you rather pay $10 for a pirated DVD or go pay $7/person to go see it in the theatre. For those people that have surround sound systems and large tvs, there's not really much argument.
Re:No, some actualy are inferior (Score:4, Interesting)
Hey, maybe some of us like spending two hours having our seat kicked, eating $10 popcorn, listening to cellphones going off, and enjoying the rich gossip and giggles of eleven year old girls in an R rated movie. And I'll tell you what, I'd like to shake the hand of the guy that thought up the idea of monthly/annual tickets. No, not the hand, what's the word? ... throat.
Every wonder at what point the question became "What's the better experience?" to "What's the least shitty experience?"
Before anyone starts on the "why do you put up with it?", I'll mention that I've seen exactly three movies in theatres in the past three years, one of which was made in Hollywood. The other two were subtitled, which meant I saw them in nearly empty theatres, except for the guy who exclaimed "Is it all in Japanese?" two minutes into Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that there is really very little reason to cut Hollywood any slack at all any more. Cutting the bullshit out, their argument is this: if we can't control every aspect of your life, we won't keep making content.
Two points. First, that's not true. Greed and coke habits will take care of that. Second, would it really be such a great loss? I don't agree with commercial piracy, but I'm rather at a loss to understand why there's such a market for it.
This is kinda funny.... (Score:3, Interesting)
Being that I'm a traveling salesman, and everyday I'm traveling from one side of the Bronx to the other, I noticed that the DVD hawkers don't "carry" them in stock any more. From Fordham Road, East Tremont Ave, Jerome Ave, Kingsbridge Ave, Southern Blvd, Westchester Ave and a few other hotspots they just blinked out of site. One day I went to meet a couple of distributors in the commercial neighborhood-less area called Hunts Point, and there they were, the piraters themselves, with cajas y cajas del los DVDs.
Of course I stocked up, but that was 3 weeks ago. I havent seen them since.
A wholly inferior product. (Score:3, Insightful)
"Pirates seek to profit off the enormous popularity of DVDs by using the latest in technology to illegally manufacture DVD copies of Hollywood films, and again dupe consumers into purchasing a wholly inferior product,"
How is it wholly inferior? Are they skipping every 64th bit? Are they failing to copy the FBI warning at the beginning of it? Maybe they're disabling the commercials that you can't fast forward past.
See, I've ALWAYS been against people making copies, and selling them. But damned if this asshole doesn't make it impossible for me to have any sympathy.
Re:A wholly inferior product. (Score:2)
Jack, in case you haven't noticed, the product isn't the MPAA. And if you try to make the product the MPAA, we'll reject it. Even some of the stupid sheep you call customers will reject it. The product is movies, and it doesn't matter who sells it, for some people. It used to matter to me, but the more slack I give you, the more you want... now you want to force digital copyright conrtols onto my computer? The pirates may want to steal, but at least they aren't trying to make me a Disney digislave.
competition (Score:2)
Valenti then considered for a moment. "That's our job."
Hope they don't shut down them all... (Score:3, Funny)
Of course, I'm sure that the regulations imposed by the CBDTPA will insure that no more illegal DVD copying ever happens.
Let's see... (Score:4, Insightful)
Lucky bastard (Score:3, Funny)
Boy... some people just have it all, don't they.
Making assumptions (Score:5, Informative)
There's nothing in the article about HOW the movies were ripped. If you visit a site like vcdHelp [vcdhelp.com] you can get all the information and software you need to blow past DeCSS and make VCDs, SVCDS, and DVDs at all kinds of quality levels. As long as you have the media to burn to, you can rip and convert those movies easily (but you're still breaking through DeCSS).
In fact by reading the article and seeing reference to movies that are stil in theatres or haven't been released, if we knew the source then it would be easier to divine the method of duplication.
If it leaks from the studio pre-copy-protection, I guess copying would be a cinch. If they taped it at a theatre, then you go back to vcdhelp, and with Vdub, TMPGEnc, and other tools you could custom create the dvd easily. Same with if it was post-copy-protection.
So unless they got it before protection was implemented, I think it would be safe to assume DeCSS bypass tools were used. But then again, assumption got us this story
Re:Making assumptions (Score:2)
TWW
but DeCSS Can be used for piracy (Score:2)
Is that a reason to ban DeCSS? Of course not. As we all keep saying, just 'cos you can kill someone with a baseball bat doesn't mean it should be banned.
Re:but DeCSS Can be used for piracy (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:but DeCSS Can be used for piracy (Score:2)
Newspeak (Score:2, Funny)
A rather strong word to describe people who copy copyrighted works.
Re:Newspeak (Score:3, Interesting)
Please, young people, stop trying to treat dictionaries as manuals that legislate the rules of a language, when what they in fact do is describe (and sometimes misdescribe) common usage.
Not only does it sound like they made a bootleg (Score:2)
wholly inferior (Score:3, Insightful)
Wholly inferior in what way ? No spam insert ? No nice picture on the cover ?
Someone please correct me, but isnt the whole point of copying a DVD not to lose quality in the process ? What ? Are counterfeit burners going to drop a few 1 ans 0's in the process ?
I think the only thing inferior here is the money going into Valenti's pocket.
I'm Glad! (Score:5, Insightful)
All of the excuses I've heard for doing so is bullshit. Is the entertainment industry gouging the consumer with high DVD prices? Yep. Does that justify stealing their intelecual property? Nope.
Everytime we violate a copyright by illegal traiding we make the MPAA and RIAA arguments for built-in hardware copy protection more justifiable. It's going to be a hard enough fight without giving the corporations additonal ammunition.
Re:I'm Glad! (Score:4, Insightful)
I highly doubt that you would sit down and "accidently" write war and peace.
They probably did use DeCSS, unfortunately. (Score:3, Insightful)
1:1 copying of course is what allows us to copy CD-ROMs whether they are encrypted or not because they simply copy all the data blindly. Right now it is impossible to copy a modern DVD using a 1:1 copy because most of them use a DVD-9, which has two layers and a maximum capacity of 8.5 Gb. If you do any DVD ripping at all you know that a typical 2 hour movie uses 6 Gb.
How do you 1:1 copy a 6Gb movie on 4.7Gb CDR? You don't.
So, you use one of Smartripper or one of the new DVD rippers (all of which are evolutions of DeCSS and break the DVD encryption) and copy the VOB's to your hard drive. You then transcode the DVD using Cinemacraft Encoder or a like industrial MPEG-2 encoding software to a smaller size. The picture quality hardly suffers at all because you use smart bitrate encoding.
Voila, a 6gb movie on a 4.7gb DVD-R. But impossible if you didnt transcode the DVD in order to recompress the video. And how do you rip the encrypted video in order to transcode it? DeCSS.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but THIS IS ILLEGAL. Not to say we shouldn't be doing it: we are being ripped off by the MPAA and RIAA. And those of us who do own the media should be entitled to replacement media. On the other hand, those companies do have a right to make a profit and the artists deserve to earn royalties for their work.
The logic on both sides of the issue is equally irrational. My real point is the DeCSS is an integral part of a DVD burner based pirating system. Unless you possess actual DVD pressing/manufacturing capability, you have to break the DVD encryption to either recompress or split the video in order to fit the smaller capacity of a DVD-R.
Re:Good. (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Good. (Score:4, Funny)
Like whom has 15 dVd burner's anyway? I know they, I mean the one guy, are going down like a HELLIUM BALLON!
Thanks
Re:Waaaay off topic, but too funny to pass up. . . (Score:2)
There is no way I am gonna read that entire paragraph. Seems like a real hoot though (*cough*).
Hm. Yeah, in re-reading, it does strike me as having come from one of those inner spirals where I didn't realize just how far I'd wandered from the herd.
Ah well. I guess you can go pirate a Pauly-Shore DVD if you want some cheep laughs which don't require any input energy whatsoever.
Weirdly enough, I just found in the last five minutes an article which talks about how Alzheimer's is much less prevelent in those who actively use their brains during their lives. You have lots of medical insurance, I trust?
-Fantastic Lad
That...is a very good point. (Score:2)
Just remeber though, if Circut City?, along with the MPAA, RIAA, and other assorted cronies do it...it's perfectly LEGAL and okay.
Go back to being a little drone, and do what we tell you...and you might get pudding for dinner tonight!
Re:There is a way (Score:5, Insightful)
This will never work and has been tried before with other illegal activities (drugs spring to mind).
Here is were the problem lies. If you don't bust a good majority of the people on each iteration of the illegal activity then people are not scared. To be effective you need to get about 10% each time the crime is committed. Otherwise the chances of geting busted are to low for someone to worry about. it falls into the range of " Won't happen to me".
This means that if you download a movie ten times the chances of getting busted should be aproaching certany. Anything less and you are wasting time with this method.
This would not be hard to do if they were serious. You can grab casual users by the bushel basket all day long on Efnet or Dalnet. You could easily make a morpheus/Kazaa clone to track with. Lot's of trojan horse schemes to throw out there to grab users by the hundreds daily.
Then you hit the real problem. With millions of people everyday participating in this activity you are suddenly faced with prosecuting hundreds of thousands of cases to the full extent of the law. We are talking billions of dollars in legal costs, most likely aproaching the trillons quickly.
The hurdle comes from the fact that these are not poor intercity youth here who will get a public defender and plead guilty for the reduced charge. These are people of means, that is why they have an internet connection and a working computer, that is why they are sitting on a high speed connection at a university. If they themselves cannot afford a lawyer then you can damn bet their parents can. A lawyer who get's payed by the hour and is going to drag out this case for as long as they can. This means more work and more court time and more goverment costs. Meanwhile the citizens of the state/country are having a fit as their taxs rise and their infrastructure falls apart because all funds are being directed at internet piracy. Most people will agree that they would rather have a murder caught and prosecuted than have a pirate prosecuted. With such an overloaded court system the murders would be walking free because the prosecuters cannot handle the load.
This is the idea of Civil Disobediance put into words by Henry David Thoreau and so well put into action by Gandhi and Martin Luther King. If you swamp the system with so many targets then the system will fail. You can arrest hundreds or thousands, but you cannot arrest tens of thousands and millions of people for performing a harmless action. It will bring your state to a grinding halt.
Add to this the fact that every case is a potential reversal of the case law you find favorable. All it takes is one lucky or good lawyer to get this to an appels court, or the supreme court and all of a sudden your favoriable DMCA is being modified by the courts in ways that you cannot control with campaign contributions. Imagine an apeals court rulling that the DMCA means that the movie industry cannot decode disks to see if they are pirated once they are made and throwing all current cases out of court for lack of evidence. Stranger interpritations have been made and become law before. The politicians and the lobbiest would do a lot to keep this from happening, including making personal piracy legal.
The only course of action is to capitulate and modify your behavior so that the disobedience stops.
Piracy is consumer Disobedience on a grand scale. If your prices are gouging, your rates outragous then the consumer wil go elsewhere. This is the basis for Capitalism, just and unforseen side effect of that system. That if the alternative is Illegal the consumers wil become outlaws.
Re:There is a way (Score:2)
Actually, if you look at history, this is not always true. For example, Stalin handled the problem by streamlining the punishment process: He simply eliminated all of the steps between "Arrest" and "Execution". In this way, he was able to efficiently do away with millions of ordinary citizens for their "crimes".
Re:There is a way (Score:3, Interesting)
I can't help but think of the difference between Martin Luther King and Malcom X: one an advocate of civil disobedience and peaceful protest (now an act of terrorism in some places, like Utah), and the other far more radical (the thought of 50 black men armed with automatic weapons providing protection for a peaceful assembly in a bigoted white town boggles the mind - the whole purpose of the Second Amendment, IMHO).
Imagine the police being ordered to arrest someone for the "terrorist act" of using DeCSS... to view DVDs he's payed for... on his computer... under Linux. Imagine the accused fighing back. Think automatic weapon's fire, with kevlar-peircing hollow-point rounds: a dozen cops dead in the first skirmish. As they retreat to regroup, the N2 UV lasers are deployed on the roof, powered by a couple of twin-Diesels in the garage: instant sunburn, while 20 KV fry the remaining cops one by one. A bunch of wireless MAN feeds as well as DSL and cable modem offer live, uncut video of the whole scene.
It's likely that someone mounting such a defence will eventually die in the process (proudly, on their feet). Maybe the message will get out: "I killed the 200 cops who wanted to arrest me for watching a movie I paid for." Maybe other cops would think twice when asked to enforce that kind of ludicruous law. But, if nothing is done, things will get worse.
Some of us object by wringing our hands, some by writing letters, some by peaceful (and perhaps not so peaceful) demonstrations, and some with violent retaliatory force. One can't ask anyone to endanger themselves in a manner they're not comfortable with in fighting this war, and I'm certainly not advocating enacting out the scenario above, but it is a war, and it will be fought -- human nature makes me certain of that.