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Gov't Wants Techies to Play Musical Chairs 161
dsoltesz writes "Legislation that's been in the works to put a program in place to allow government techies to trade places with private sector counterparts for six to twelve month stints, just passed in the House. The government seems to be on the winning end of the Digital Tech Corps Act, until perhaps, the government IT workers realize the grass really is greener on the corporate side of the fence... If the bill makes it, it will be interesting to see if the concept actually gets implemented."
Hm... (Score:2, Insightful)
I can see it now, a gov't tech switches, and then gets a letter from his boss saying not to come back, they like the other guy better.
UK perspective (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:UK perspective (Score:1)
Kierthos
Re:UK perspective (Score:1)
Government workers (Score:1)
Yeah, we want them in our IT Shops.
On the other hand, maybe I can get a cushy job with the State this way!
Re:Government workers (Score:1)
Re:Government workers (Score:1)
Ummm.. But who wants to? (Score:1)
April 1st is long past (Score:1)
I'd go if they gave me some new toys to play with.
Re:April 1st is long past (Score:2)
Re:April 1st is long past (Score:5, Insightful)
The idea is to take someone with a large government budget to spend and indoctrinate them for 6 month or a year in some IT corporation, while at the same time giving a senior IT executive from the same company a chance to spend a half year or so meeting the players inside the government, learning what problems they face and recommending the best possible solution ("...which our company just happens to sell...") for those problems.
This is nothing more than legalized influence peddling. If I ran an IT company, I'd pay good money to get this program running, too.
Re:Ummm.. But who wants to? (Score:2)
Re:Ummm.. But who wants to? (Score:2)
Choose a govt job as your last resort. it is not worth it if you are a thinker or like to work and live logically. Logic is frowned upon in govt jobs.
I fled my career as a microbiologist to IS/IT because of it.
Re:Ummm.. But who wants to? (Score:1)
Everyone who works in gov't jobs wants you to think everything is terrible. Don't believe it for a second. The pay may not be spectacular, but it is very difficult to get fired from a gov't job and this allows for a less than vigorous approach to your task.
In addition, the retirement benefits blow away anything any private company can offer. You just have to stick with the gov't for a long enough period (not much of a problem -- see above).
Compare:
Private firm -- must get money from people willing to pay or go out of business, no guaranteed source of revenue.
Government -- gets money from people whether they want to give it or not, almost sure money.
Private firm -- you have little say over who your boss is.
Government -- employees are voters too. Make things to hard (use words like efficient) and you suffer the political consequences.
Private firm -- fire a employee for anti-semitic remarks
Government -- if he is a professor, he tell's you have no choice but to keep him, otherwise you're violating "academic freedom." So he sits getting paid while he is on administrative leave. Instead of being a servant of the people of the state of Florida, he insists that they be forced to continue paying him, despite that fact that a vast majority disagree with his positions. Who works for who?
The relationship between employer and employee is fundamentally different when in comes to government jobs and the employees know it. They bitch and moan to the 'outsiders' because they don't want to admit how easy they have it. The fact is, you have to bust your hump in the private sector. Government jobs are easy street.
I have worked in both situations and work in a gov't position now. It makes my blood boil when I hear all these slackers bitch about not getting a raise this year while people I know are getting kicked to the curb (they don't count the cost of living increase they got as a raise, btw). The sense of entitlement is astounding.
The number of government workers is really its own class and they live off the sweat of the private sector.
Slow Tech Economy + Government Hiring == New Jobs (Score:1, Insightful)
I know there are a lot of computer people who are currently unemployed or underemployed. The upcoming government hiring "spree" may be a small start to what is needed to rejuvenate the tech economy.
Re:Slow Tech Economy + Government Hiring == New Jo (Score:2)
Another interesting note that I can speak about from personal observation is that many factory workers are approaching retirement now as well. This isn't just an IT problem, all over Baby Boomer people are retiring and there are a whole lot more of them retiring than there are us young folk coming in to take their places.
Re:Slow Tech Economy + Government Hiring == New Jo (Score:2)
Yeah, I might not make as much money at the gov't, but I could give a flying fuck about that. I'd just like it if i could get into a position where if I lost my job it was due to something I did wrong, at least a little.
this of it this way- (Score:1)
we get a govt job, work there for a couple of years to get experience(busts out laughing)... then they show us what we COULD be doing, and bam! we get new jobs:)
Greener Grass? (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't think this is always the case. Perhaps government IT workers chose their employer based on their desire to work *only* 40 hours a week, job security, and a salary paid in American Dollars (instead of NASDAQ shares). For some, those things might be worth the tradeoff of a lower salary than the private sector offers.
cleetus
Re:Greener Grass? (Score:5, Informative)
Unlike some IT places in gov't, I actually go on call (aka pager duty)....once every 4 months. Then I have it for a week. How may pager calls have I gotten? 2...in 3 years.
Gov't IT jobs will not put you in the hospital young. They are about reasonable amounts of work, using big hardware, and helping out whoever is spending the tax dollars to make something good happen.
Re:Greener Grass? (Score:1)
Re:Greener Grass? (Score:1)
That's not quite true, there are locality adjustments, but they're not large enough to cover the cost difference.
Re:Greener Grass? (Score:2)
Oh you must LOVE what slashdot has to say about patents then.
Re:Greener Grass? (Score:1)
Re:Greener Grass? (Score:1)
Have a late night working on a project for school and have to come into work late? No big deal. My boss has literally no idea what time I come into work or what time I leave, all that matters is that I'm getting my work done. Also since I'm a computer science major I can usually work on homework while at work and of course get paid for it. Absolutely wonderful.
Re:Greener Grass? (Score:1)
linux
by what criteria? (Score:5, Insightful)
> of the fence
I happen to hold a government job, and after the four years prior to that holding a private sector job, I find it refreshing.
The atmosphere is laid back, there's no constant fears of being bought up or laid off, there's some truly brilliant people to learn things from, the benefits and pay is quite competitive, and when they say 9-5 on a government job, they MEAN 9-5. 7 months here and I haven't worked overtime once. I carry a pager, and it's never been used.. once.
The workload varies between very light to decently busy to keep me interested, but I'm still left with enough time that I can do pretty much anything I want with any piece of hardware/software we own and teach myself something.
They have tuition reimbursement, *frequently* have guest speakers talking about various unix topics, and so on.
Now obviously there's some bureaucratic headaches, but if you want my opinion, the grass is greener on the *governmen* side.
Re:by what criteria? (Score:2)
I miss the job I had at the local state University. Totally laid back, a real "campus" setting with trees, grass and places to go outside -- not that poured concrete and crabgrass around a drainage slough that passes for a corporate campus or the brick-and-glass downtown corporate scene.
The advantages of a corporate job though seem to be MUCH better money both in terms of pay and in budgets. I also get to travel to class-A cities on the man's dime, which often means $100 meals, luxury hotels and limo rides.
It gets stressful at times, but a lot of the stress is internal -- the desire to do a great job despite a high workload. You get thrown into the deep end of the pool and management isn't afraid to replace you if you can't swim. If you *can* swim, they don't mind giving you more in your pay packet and more to spend.
I'm getting to the point though where I've travelled enough, ate enough, drank enough and achieved enough "stuff" financially that a government job on less pay with less stress to finish of my next 20 years sounds pretty good. I'd rather have the time to travel on my own.
Re:by what criteria? (Score:1)
The Fed gov't has an interesting way of doing math when it comes to hours, BTW. For every 4 hours worked, you earn a 15-minute break... which comes out of the 4 hours worked. As a result, an 8-hour day starting at 9:00 ends at 5:30.
Additionally, some places have alternate work schedule (AWS) where, if you work eight 9-hour days and one 8-hour day in a 2-week (40-hour) pay period, you get the tenth day off. My 9-hour day goes from 7:30 - 5:00.
Re:by what criteria? (Score:1)
Lunch, however, is not paid, and therefore your time. You could go home, get a haircut, buy a car, it doesn't matter, but you have to be back by the time lunch is up.
Re:by what criteria? (Score:1)
For every four hours worked you earn a 15 minute use-it-or-lose-it break. But you can leave the premises if you want during those fifteen minutes, that's why so many government workers can still maintain a smoking habit in smoke-free buildings, they can take an outside five minute smoke break three times in the morning and three times in the afternoon. You can't however save up these breaks and take off a half hour early at the end of the day.
The 8.5 hour day that the original poster was talking about is the eaight hour workday, plus the 30 minute UNPAID lunch hour. In the agency where I work, most people (non-smokers anyway) take 10 minutes in the morning, ten minutes in the afternoon, and a 40 minute combined break/lunch in the middle of the day.
As to this new bill, one point no-one has brought-up is that most people doing IT work for the government already work in the private sector as contractors. And a good percentage of those 'IT workers' in the government do nothing more than monitor the contractors. In my agency of about 4,000 staff, 500 of whom have IT responsibility, there are likely only 100 that can explain the difference between a client and a server, or between a server and a mainframe. If you sent one of them to private industry, you will likely lose them for good. If you sent one of the remaining 400, likely the company would send them back within the first two weeks.
AS to any benefit from the private company worker coming to the government for 6-12 months, that already happens as new hires are put to work on government contracts until they prove themselves, in which case they might be given reposinibility to work as contractor outside of government.
Its the law dude (Score:2)
Re:by what criteria? (Score:4, Interesting)
My bosses require me to be in for 8 hours (+1hr lunch) so I stay for 8 hours. If anyone complains, I say that the company seems to be paying me for being here 8 hours, not doing my work. Bye.
Granted, I've been getting my work done. Still nobody's ever been able to argue, because they know I'm right. People should get paid for doing work, not for wasting their time.
Max $52k/year? (Score:4, Interesting)
UP TO?!? Hmm, guess they're just talking about Windows admins, maybe? Setting the ceiling at $52k won't get you the cream of the crop, even in this market.
Re:Max $52k/year? (Score:2)
C//
State worker (Score:3, Informative)
Greener on the other side of the fence? (Score:3, Interesting)
I have a stable job, get paid regularly, and have a decent benefits package. My brother, on the other hand, got shafted on a stock option package, is owed several weeks' pay (with little promise of ever getting it), and works for a company that is on the edge of bankruptcy.
When the author of the headline says "until perhaps, the government IT workers realize the grass really is greener on the corporate side of the fence..." he obviously is very ignorant of the current private sector conditions.
Re:Greener on the other side of the fence? (Score:1)
There's a big difference in the corporate world between working for a
K-12 Education is a sector you'd NEVER want to work IT in.
Re:Greener on the other side of the fence? (Score:1)
I'm looking into a position at a charter school, and while it would mean a 1/3 pay cut, I'm very excited about education in general, and losing my 10-12 hour days and hours of commuting. Besides, the whole summer break thing is compelling.
Re:Greener on the other side of the fence? (Score:1)
She went off to work in industry for a large international and has so far had two rounds of wage reductions, big budget cuts and is generally stressed constantly from having unrealistic work loads, risk of down sizing and unpaid overtime.
I went to work for the government as a sponsored PhD student. I get a tax free income which is about the same as her's after tax. While she has a nice little cubicle I've done conference trips to the US, Canada and Switzerland since the start of the year and have a million dollar+ budget to play with and 8 weeks paid holiday each year which I have no chance of using up as I get comp. time for all the travel I have to do.
2 more years and I'll have spent 12-18 months at a US National Lab, got a PhD, published a load of papersand can take up job offers in 5 different countries through the contacts I'm making now.
Corporate life sucks unless your senior management - which I wont be for another decade at least.
Which raises the question why does anyone go work for industry in the first place?
Re:Greener on the other side of the fence? (Score:2, Interesting)
On the other hand, I'm working in an environment where a lot of people are still working on PIII 500's, and using Fortran and vi. I make less than half what my friends do in the Big City (with cost of living taken into account). I don't think the benefits make up for the disparity in pay, but it helps. We can't afford all the corporate perks -- up-to-date workstations, yearly conferences, expensive seminars. Oh, and the 40 hour a week thing? That's a myth. When the server goes down or the deadline's coming up, late nights are seen by all. Many of us take work or studying home in an effort to keep up.
Staffing is an issue, and the government knows it. OPM gave IT folks a raise a while ago -- it doesn't come close private salaries, but at least they tried, and it did make a difference on whether or not I stuck with my job. Many of us are doing the jobs of several people -- spread too thin and suffering the "jack of all trades" syndrome. Keep up with the "times"? It's just not that easy.
Of course, my brother is a cushy corporate type, and is amazed we don't have a dress code, and can't fathom that if I want a day or week off I simply announce I won't be in the office and off I go.
Re:Greener on the other side of the fence? (Score:2)
I believe you and I are on the same side here, but the headline implied that government jobs were far inferior to private sector jobs. In terms of raw salary, you're probably right. But until the private sector can offer the same job security and benefits I'm getting from the government, I have no intention of hopping the fence to the grass that might be greener, but more likely to turn brown and die in the event of another economic drought.
migration of the pointy haired (Score:4, Funny)
I was about to post that this was incredibly stupid. But then I realized that having mid level IT bosses rotate about wouldn't actually change much. They'd just go from being clueless in one place to being clueless in another. In fact, it might improve things because they'd have to admit total ignorance (instead of having it but not admitting it.)
But who am I kidding, the pointy haired never admit ignorance. Engineers on the ground probably won't even notice that their new bungee boss isn't from their company.
ok let's see WHO they will be working for!!!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
Kind of makes me sick.....he is going to have PKI crammed down his throat then take it back to the military!
Didn't the government have those folks in court for some reason????? Holy conflict of interest!!!!!
Re:ok let's see WHO they will be working for!!!!! (Score:2)
Don't knock PKI [pki.com] until you've tried it. I still consider The Beast to be the best coaster around this part of the world.
Re:ok let's see WHO they will be working for!!!!! (Score:1)
That's ok, I've got a friend in the Army that is doing most of the admin work for the buildings he is stuck in right now. (Not sure the exact Army term for the unit size.)
He's a smart enough guy, but the fact that he had never even added RAM to his own machine before he got shipped out there kinda indicates his level of computer knowledge, a.k.a. not even enough to really be dangerous. Now, to his credit, he is picking it up fast, and knows to ask for help before doing something collosally stupid. But, if this is the type of admins the Army has running around in it, I'm glad most of their stuff runs windows. Ya, as a real OS its pretty bad, but its easy to install, and fix. (Reboot or Reload, that's about it.)
Re:ok let's see WHO they will be working for!!!!! (Score:2)
sPh
hmm (Score:1)
Re:hmm (Score:1)
Grass is greener on both sides (Score:5, Interesting)
(my memory of govt work may be fuzzy, since it's been 6 years since I worked there)
+Govt:
Real retirement, usually after 20 yrs of service
Pay raises based on years of service (plus yearly Cost Of Living Adjustments)
VERY hard to get laid off/fired.
Chance to play with new gear (I was burning CD-ROMs in 1992, also got to use optical cards about a year later)
Lots of holidays, good amount of vacation time.
Good training. Since the code I was writing was going into 170+ hospitals, there was a lot of focus on good coding techniques, peer reviews, etc. It's helped a lot since then.
No petty "is so-and-so making more than me?". The pay schedule covers everyone, so (for example) I knew what my boss made versus what I made.
-Govt:
Paperwork, paperwork, paperwork
In order for the budgets to work, our group pretty much couldn't buy anything from Oct->about August, then a mad buying frenzy from Aug->Oct 1 to use up the budget. The feds work on Oct->Oct fiscal year, and all the money is "use it or lose it". This often results in very strange purchasing habits (like 21" PC monitors in 1992).
Low pay, but promotions are pretty automatic up to a point, then it gets competitive.
Lots of management. As a result, there were reorganizations every 6 months or so. Also new ideas of management, so there was often times more time spent in meetings than actually working (sigh).
I would have stayed with the feds, but I wanted more money, and wanted a reason to move to an area with a bit more high-tech, so I went private-sector.
Re:Grass is greener on both sides (Score:1)
Re:Grass is greener on both sides (Score:3, Insightful)
This should probably be in the -Govt column instead/as well. It means you're working with idiots (Speaking from experience here). For example, the guy with a PhD in Spanish working tech support who could not plug in a computer.
Re:Grass is greener on both sides (Score:1)
This is easily one of the most enticing reasons to leave my federal government job, actually. There are so many completely clueless and dangerous IT people around here that it can be tough to get things done right. Lots of people who think they know what they're doing, but really don't, and routinely break everything. And then there's the (also clueless) IT guy who was abusing his government credit card for personal computer items, but even that wasn't enough to get him fired. He's still breaking things, just in another agency.
And, yeah, I could be making a lot more in the private sector also, of course. On the other hand, as mentioned before, it's very stable. The workload varies from very light to moderate. We don't have the huge budgets that everyone else seems to be talking about (e.g., CD burners in 1992) but we have enough to fly us to interesting conferences about once a year. My hours are incredibly flexible (some days 8-4:30, some days noon to 8:30) but I work no more than 40 hours a week. I have a cell phone that they call me on regularly outside of work hours, but I hardly ever wind up having to come in to fix something (ahh, the power of VNC and SSH.) Oh, and lots of spare bandwidth sitting there unused after hours.
My quasi-automatic yearly pay increases are probably almost over, and the bullshit paperwork is getting worse, which is getting me more interested in the private sector, but who knows. I'm also probably done with living in D.C., and that's probably what'll push me over to the Other Side.
Umm, I seem to be just rambling now. Sorry. I think the lack of cluefull people here have caused my brain to atrophy slightly, too.
Re:Grass is greener on both sides (Score:2)
C//
Re:age bias (Score:2)
Suing the government isn't as easy as it sounds. In many cases, a judge must give prior approval to sue a government entity.
C//
So what you're really saying is... (Score:1)
And as for the alleged benefits, how is lack of accountability ("VERY hard to get laid off/fired.") a good thing? It means the morons you work with will be rewarded for being morons and you're stuck with them. What self respecting techie would want that? Being stuck surrounded by ineptitude is too high a price to pay, no matter what the benefit.
And we won't even talk about 'lots of management' and how rewarding and satisfying *that* makes a job. You're arguing how nice it is to be put out to pasture and not have much asked of you, but dear God I hope most of us don't need that yet. And when we do someday, no need for the feds - there is always SAS Institute [unc.edu].
Re:So what you're really saying is... (Score:2)
Lack of accountability is a double-edged sword. I've been laid off twice in 12 months. For some people, the stability of knowing you've got a job for as long as you want it is a comforting thought. The people I worked with were all pretty competent, so I didn't have a problem with people stuck in the wrong job.
What is the goal? (Score:4, Interesting)
Has anyone figured out the impact of training these swapped IT folks. Sure, they already have skilz, but they won't know the environment, the human protocols of who to call when the shtuff hits the fan. Not to mention that they will have to be re-trained when they get back to their old job a year later.
How does this improve the situation?
Criteria for companies to participate and.... (Score:1)
I have never worked directly for a government agency, but I did work for a government contractor on a short term job for the Veterans Benefits Administration. I can definitely see how this could benefit the agencies and their workers, but the private sector exchangees(?) would not really benefit. Other than appreciating their jobs more.
My experience with government IT people, at least the ones at the VBA were that most were former military folks with no real training or experience. IOW, grunts that had no war to fight, so hey, give them a 2 week crash course in systems and send them to work.
Another thing is this only mentions mid-level executives. These people, especially in government have no technical knowledge whatsoever. They read an article on some technology and think it's great from the hype and demand it be done.
Re:Criteria for companies to participate and.... (Score:1)
(1) works in the field of information technology management;
(2) is considered an exceptional performer by the individual's current employer; and
(3) is expected to assume increased information technology management responsibilities in the future.
An employee of an agency shall be eligible to participate in this program only if the employee is employed at the GS-11 level or above (or equivalent) and is serving under a career or career-conditional appointment or an appointment of equivalent tenure in the excepted service.
This describes a group of people who, in my experience, have actually worked for their positions. You don't get a GS-11 without a Ph.D. or equivilant experience.
Of course, getting a manager to go with "new technology" is often a fight. Maybe after seeing a bit of the "real world" they'll be more open to accepting and using new technologies.
Working for Uncle (Score:1, Interesting)
Yeah right, once they are expected to work 12-14 hour days they will be running back to Uncle. I know I did.
Looks good on paper but not in real life. (Score:2, Interesting)
Do both (Score:2)
Re:Do both (Score:1)
I've worked with alot of good/qualified people who have come into the private sector from the military.
My last job was at a high-volume dot-com -- my manager was the head of operations & the majority of his background was working in Naval Intelligence. He knew his shit, and was a good guy to work for.
-Turkey
Re:Do both (Score:2)
There's a whole slew of bureaucratic crap that is involved with this. Reserves are cool, but it's not a guaranteed paycheck. Also, you are more likely to have an unexpected deployment schedule as a reservist... Civilian employers are not permitted to fire you because you are activated in the reserves, but it's definitely a hiring hurdle...
As a fedtech (Score:2, Interesting)
Just a bandaid. (Score:5, Interesting)
1) Many (but not all) government IT staff and IT managers are the last ones left behind. That is, much of the good IT and IT management staff moves on to the private sector, leaving behind the mediocre staff. That mediocre staff is what's left to rise to the top of government management. Why? Pay. Government refuses to compensate public sector IT workers what they're actually worth because (see #2).
2) Personnel management. It is virtually impossible inside the Federal government to get rid of IT staff that underperform. That is why Congress is so reluctant to raise pay rates because there ARE so many underperformers on the government IT payroll. If Congress would reform the civil service system so that a) under and non-performers could be fired, and b) managers could pay their good IT staff comparable private sector salaries, nearly 50% of the government's IT problems would evaporate. Don't believe me? We have one woman who didn't show up for work for 4-5 weeks!, rarely called in, and is still working for us. The government union is holding up her firing.
3) Procurement. If you've ever worked for the government and tried to get something major procured quickly for a fast turnaround project, you know the true meaning of irresistable force meets unmovable object. Procurement for IT managers needs to be streamlined so that they can get the hardware, software, and contract resources they need WHEN they need them.
My two cents. The problem is much deeper than staff rotation.
Re:Just a bandaid. (Score:1)
That and the impossibly tight budgets (think: nothing to spend, actually) tend to drive me right up the wall at times...
Re:Just a bandaid. (Score:2)
Is he honestly saying he has been a "server administrator" for years (this guy is older) and he's NEVER used the NT event viewer? or heard of it?!?!?! I had to walk out of the cube.
Re:Just a bandaid. (Score:2, Insightful)
Government workers are gonna have to face the fact that, if they want better pay and more respect, they have to get rid of the dead weight in their ranks. Untill they do, the tax payers (their bosses) will continue to cut government budgets.
Re:Just a bandaid. (Score:2)
4) management that sucks even worse than that encountered in the private industry. Incompetence in management is par for the course, and since poor performance won't get a manager fired in government service this tends to result in the promotion of other poor performers so that the current management isn't threatened or embarrassed by new additions to the administrative team.
Max
Green grass (Score:1)
Please moderate me -1 Redundant. Thankyou.
Ps. I work at the JET project in the UK and we've got much cooler toys here than you're going to find in any private company I can think of.
Hands up who works at a site with the world's largest experimental Tokamak fusion reactor?
Nice Work (Score:1)
Think Bigger... (Score:1)
Managers Too Please (Score:2)
Oh wait, that is what happened to all of the dot bombs. They didn't deliver what was promised or they didn't think through what they really wanted to do. What needs to be traded are the managers. Govt leadership needs to start looking at the bottom line the way corporate America does or America is going to be in bad bad bad shape in the future.
Social Security isn't in trouble because the govt continues to steal from their pot, SSA is in trouble because they blow millions upon millions of dollars on throw away projects. The bad part about this, is that not a single statesman will TOUCH SSA because it means death to future advancement.
Trade the managers out, you will get a bigger bang for your buck.
duh gubment vs private industry (Score:2, Insightful)
on the other hand, most of the private companies i have worked at were run by borderline sociopaths who wouldn't think twice about slitting your throat and drinking your blood if they thought it would improve profitability.
in short, i think we're all fucked.
rduke
Re:duh gubment vs private industry (Score:1)
Do you have it in for the government...
or are you afraid?
Coward
Re:duh gubment vs private industry (Score:2)
You say that like it's a bad thing. This is exactly the attitude I want in the corporate executives of any company in which I have invested.
I'm not quite sure how "drink employee blood" can maximize shareholder value, but I wouldn't be too suprised to see it in certain people's DayPlanner.
Sure, why not. (Score:1)
My father worked for the government.. and I got to take a peak at their offices several times..
I have to say, if I was in the IT industry (heh, i am, but not in this case) and had this opportunity..
Why the hell not. In today's unstable IT world, this can be a very good thing.
Once you work for the government for these 12months or whatever it may be.. you're established. Chances are, they'll be asking you to work for them.
Makes sense. The government wants fresh workers working for them. Maybe take a new idea/view towards things. Afterall, shouldn't our government be the ones best up on all the latest and greatest? I'm sure the idea is that they want to snatch the really good admins up, and use em to their benifit, and hopefully they'll stick with the government.
Consider our current status:
We're *sort of* at war with another country. The biggest talks of terrorist attacks are in the Internetworking issues, and that's where everyone predicts will get hit next. Wouldn't you think that the government wants to tighten up security all around..
The Job security might proove to be a good thing for the average IT worker. Especially since once you get established in the government as a worker.. you'll have a rating, which is your level of work in the government. I don't recall exactly how the levels go, but the higher the level.. the more $
yup, I'd take it
GS grades with salary (Score:2, Interesting)
Most jobs get some sort of adjustment (i.e. extra pay on top as well), some jobs get signing bonus's as well.
Confidential (Score:1)
Give me a break. This is an obvious lie, look, has anyone reading this not ever signed a confidentiality agreement? THIS IS THE TECH INDUSTRY SILLY! What's the real story here?
I still cant figure out if its Compulsory ? (Score:2)
If the feds say we want you to take our IT guy for a Year ? Do you have to ?
If it is, it is quite simply unconstitutional, a federal employee could be rejected under the soldier quartering provisions, if its no mandatory, what I just said is all moot
But fcol, who would WANT a Federal employee, most are worse than union workers, could this person be "fired" from their position if they slack ?
Working in a private sector company with and significant amount of responsiblity is NOTHING like working govt jobs. Lunch ? Yeah right twice a week if Im luck, my choice, but I have a life after work.
Is it just me or does this sound wrong all the way around, good for only one entity the Govt., Private sector is years ahead in most IT, hell you know how many RBASE programmers the Govt still has on staff..........
Security anyone? (Score:1)
I'm also pretty sure that the businesses aren't going to be happy with having to bear the cost as the article states they will have to. Especially that it seems like this benefits the gov't better than it benefits private industry....
I don't know... something just doesn't smell right with this bill....
Umm... security issues? (Score:1)
That being the case, shouldn't that mean that the higher-profile (and higher-clearance) folks are the ones to trade places?
so, doesn't that imply that you either have to swap with private-sector folks with clearances, or go through the process of getting clearance for the private-sector folks?
meaning, of course, that this'll create a high-cost, lengthy approval process for (many) of the swaps?
Bit of an identity crisis (Score:3, Funny)
Early in the article, it says:
But then in the next paragraph, it says:
So which is it -- are they going to be trading "executives", or "experts"? Because you can't have it both ways ...
Wait a second, here (Score:1)
Why do we need a bill to encourage government agencies to hire these people? Certainly if there's a need for tech folks some of these unemployed techies will take a job, any job, in their field.
Sure, not all folks are willing to work for government-sector wages, but this bill doesn't even address that.
Furthermore, with all the overseas outsourcing that U.S. companies are using more and more, the government may be the ONLY employer hiring techies in a lot of communities.
Not just in the world of paid work (Score:1)
Missionaries always work two by two. You're usually transferred from one area to another every four to six months, which also means the guy you're working with changes every two months or so. In some areas where missions are geographically small, you might be transferred to the other side of town. In my mission, transfers were usually from one city to another.
However, you usually stay a bit longer with your first missionary companion (your "trainer"). There was a policy in place under our second mission president, where new missionaries would spend a week or two working in a different city, with a different companion, after they'd been with their trainers about a month. Mostly, this was so they could see that the grass *wasn't* greener on the other side of the fence. =) Some guys got impatient when they were assigned a trainer who'd been out for 22 months (out of a two year mission) and was slowing down a little bit. Most of them, by the halfway mark of their missions, were saying things like "I thought I knew so much more than he did... boy was I wrong!"
Maybe the motivation here is similar -- a morale issue?
is this for a new HGTV reality show? (Score:2, Funny)
Will John get his widgets straight? Will Rashib blow up China? Let's trade cubes!
Idiot Slave Trade (Score:1)
Same may also be true if there is any truth to the feeling I get when reading other posts - that the Gov't IT workforce is possibly a bunch of slackers anyhow.
Private industry and Gov't are just going to trade their least successful people!
Who this applies to ... (Score:2)
Besides, this is a middle-management switchover, not a pit crew kind of thing. The bright people in government (there are a few) won't go because their departments need them and they already get the outside involvment that they need, and the turtles of the Government IT sector won't go because they like it where they are.
This isn't a jobs program - very few of those that are out of work now will enter the program, since they don't have a current corporate job. All this is is a wage slave swap (your plantation workers for my plantation workers).
It's all a ploy to get the economy going (Score:1)
Corporate IT person gets to go work for government and gets exposed to government spending habits for six months. He leaves, goes back to private sector and keeps on blowing through cash. Tech sector rebounds and everyone (read Wall Street investors) is happy.
Meanwhile, the government IT people get exposed to tight-fisted corporate budgets, where they are held accountable for ROI. They come back to the government with the "make-do" mentality and help the government stay in budget (for once).
Huh?! IT Workers or Executives? (Score:2)
Maybe this is just sloppy writing, but in the first paragraph, the author says this bill "would create an exchange of mid-level information technology executives between the public and private sectors." Everywhere else in the article, he says IT workers, tech workers, etc.
I'm curious now if this bill is meant to swap workers or just managers?
Sense of duty (Score:1)
I am guilty of this also so don't think that I don't feel guilty about it. But it seems that our generation (post WW2 and post Vietnam) only talks about government when it's time to blame it but never to embrace it and to make it better.
I guess what I am trying to say is that techies whould not be thinking only about the grass being greener in the corporate world but that they can be in a position (working for the goverment) to try to make a difference.
Re:Sense of duty (Score:1)
Government isn't kind to folks who want to change things for the better. Government is especially unkind to those who're brighter than their managers (and thus are a threat to them), or who suggest that perhaps current policy isn't best serving the public. Government gets downright ugly if you discover management engaged in illegal or unethical practices and have the gall to speak out against these things.
Go ahead and try to make a difference. I did. I have nothing to show for it but years of wasted labor and a bitterness over public service that goes right to the bone.
Max
The net result of "musical chairs" (Score:4, Interesting)
Having worked in government, I will take this opportunity to challenge the theory that government employment == job security. During my years in state government, there were several proposed departmental mergers and outsourcing proposals that were systematically shot down like incoming missiles. While the odds of a layoff may have been low, the odds of having my career derailed were high enough to get my attention.
Myth number two is that government service means a "normal" work week and a country club atmosphere. Far from it. Nowhere else on earth is the staffing level quite so out of line with management's idea of the proper level of service. The easy hours are for the people who cheerfully accept the miniscule salaries. To me, the best government career path is to latch onto some mission-critical function, work crazy hours, and allow the early retirements and turnover to create promotion opportunities. I did this for 13 years (5 promotions) -- it was fun and eventually profitable.
By the way, does the government intend to include HB-1's in the mix? Now that would make it interesting.
Government, Dot Coms, and IT salaries (Score:1)
My experience with the US Govt (Score:2, Insightful)
There are negatives. The govt has a serious case of "hurry up and wait" (they want your part done "now" so they can shelve it for 2 months while they decide on the next move). They also fail to realize that companies must make a profit (they will ask for discounts until something is free).
Overall, my skills and career have benefited from working with the govt. I also have more time for a life.
Chris
Want the best of both worlds? (Score:2)
Bonuses:
Negatives:
Timetravelling IT Staff... (Score:1)
Hmmm, 6 to 12 Months, with a One Year Option - can someone remind me just how many months there are in a year?? Does the Government work off the Lunar calendar or something....?
Won't work.... (Score:1)
Quite honestly I understand what they are trying to do, keep goverment tech employees up to par with the rest of the industry since they are generally at least a couple steps behind the curl.
Problem #1: most goverment employees are not current in their skill sets, and are generally sub par in their abilities (hence the reason they work for the government, this isn't meant to apply to all government employees or be a flame, it is mearly a observation from my personal experiance). Suffice to say as a commercial company why would I want to hire (even temporarly) a sub par person with outdated knowledge who I am expected to train and then get rid of?
Problem #2: The goverment employees who are knowledgeable will probably not want to stay in their government jobs once they see what it is like to get paid more, work on new equipment and not deal with government buercarcy? Any decent people will probably not want to stay with the government for long after seeing greener pastures
Solution: Maybe the government should restructure itself, clean out the human refuse and bueracrcy and send people to training and become compeative, pay competive salaries, user modern equipment etc etc, rather then expect industry to train its people.
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