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PDA Killer or Thickening Vapor? 100

Posted by CmdrTaco from the little-yellow-better dept.
asklepius writes "The OQO handheld PC (which was discussed here) has some competition. Antelope Technologies is producing a very small computer based on IBM's Mobile Computer Core (MMC). It is powered by a Crusoe processor, 256MB RAM and 10GB HD. IBM has a press release about the partnership with Antelope Technologies. There are also some very cool accessories that let you turn it into a desktop system or a laptop. Looks like another cool device. Hope it is more than vapor."
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PDA Killer or Thickening Vapor? More

PDA Killer or Thickening Vapor?

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  • finally I'll be able to get rid of my pentuim 166 and get a real notebook. or pda. or maybe I'll get rid of my Palm V and get a real PDA. Or notebook. mmrr
  • IBM's Mobile Computer Core (MMC).
    Wouldn't that be MCC? Or is the acronym for something else?
  • After 2 comments and it was slashdotted... any older links over there? (perhaps google cache?)
  • ..running their server on one of those gizmos....

    slow...

  • A great Idea. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by billstr78 ( 535271 )
    I wonder how this will compete with tablet PC's? It seems as though the deciding factors will be the input interfaces, and docking capability.
    IMHO, a lightweight small version of your desktop computer that you could take anywhere and dock on your desktop when you are done would a truly usefull device. I would highly simplify the lives of those who must work in more than one chair and desk on a daily basis.

  • Google Cache (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Google Cache: Here [216.239.39.100]

  • What's the market for these things? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jonman_d ( 465049 ) <nemilar&optonline,net> on Monday August 05, 2002 @05:40PM (#4014672) Homepage Journal
    I honestly don't see who would use these things. They're not PDAs, because they're too large, too heavy, and last time I checked, moving parts in my PDA would absolutly suck (see: break in five seconds). They're essentially a low-grade computer in a small box. I don't see the point: it won't replace the desktop. The only possible use I can see for these things is using them as access points around your house or something, in which case the hardware in these things is overkill.

    Am I missing something?

    • Re:What's the market for these things? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by ScooterB ( 23301 ) on Monday August 05, 2002 @05:47PM (#4014716) Homepage
      I agree. Thue utility of this device is not that great. The battery lifetime is what really killed it for me. 2 hours is really unacceptable. I think it is high time for a revolution in battery( or other portable power source) technology.

    • Re:What's the market for these things? (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Hmmm...

      Handheld and fully functional demonstration machine for any particular software package one may need to show.

      Mobile testing environment for same. Make changes in a meeting until the suits (or clients) are happy. Since this is not a PDA, the changes could potentially be more useful as they could be made to the actual software (or whatever).

      Mobile storage. My PDA just doesn't have the RAM to transport some of my work. Sometimes I don't have my laptop; etc.

      Security-oriented types (on both sides of the fence).

      VASTLY more software availability than for any PDA on the market, giving the machine uses in all sorts of areas (diagnostics, for one) where a computer would really, really help but a PDA or the software for it is just not up to your needs.

      On and on.

      The market is anywhere one might need a real computer but may not be able to (or may not want to) carry a server or laptop.

    • moving parts in my PDA would absolutly suck (see: break in five seconds).

      Everyone with an iPod begs to differ. I don't recommend dropping your Palm either, BTW.
      • My Palm V is over 3 years old, and yes it has been dropped from waist-height onto concrete, and onto that cheap, hard office carpet a few times. Bent the case a bit but thank heavens there's no hard drive.

        It'll be interesting to see how much dashboard-riding the iPod can withstand. Every jostle works those bearings a bit looser...

    • Re:What's the market for these things? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by phriedom ( 561200 ) on Monday August 05, 2002 @07:00PM (#4015095)
      "They're essentially a low-grade computer in a small box. I don't see the point: it won't replace the desktop."

      The same thing could be said of most laptops, and yet people use them. Sure, this palmtop isn't going to be a workstation, but it will be able to do nearly all the things that laptops do, and in a much smaller size. Battery life DOES suck, but laptop batteries sucked just as bad when they started out.
      • nearly all the things that laptops do

        Let's see. On my laptop, I:

        • Surf for web pages (Cant' do that on a small screen!)
        • Play games (what controls on that thing?)
        • Write papers (again, can't do that well on a small screen)
        • Talk online (might as well have a laptop as opposed to lugging a keyboard around)
        • desktop publishing (screen again)
        • Email (a possibility)
        • My ToDo list/calendar, which is synced to my palm anyway, which is better than carrying around this very expensive version which only lasts two hours as opposed to TWO MONTHS on a set of batteries on the Palm.
        • Watch movies (again, screen issue)
        • Play Mp3s. (okay, this could probably do that pretty well).
        I'm having difficulty in seeing what niche this will fill in the market. Right now, just seems like an iPod with a pretty screen. For this little guy to gain significant market share, there has to be a revolution in battery technology -- 2 hours just doesn't cut it.

        The one application that this would probably be great in is as an embedded system in, say a vehicle or other industrial project. That's if the reliability is up to spec...

        • Sigh...use your imagination. (Score:4, Interesting)

          by phriedom ( 561200 ) on Monday August 05, 2002 @09:05PM (#4015633)
          The screen is almost the size of a 3x5 note card, and has 600 x 800 resolution.
          That is big enough for web browsing, or email, or chat, or writing documents, and some people pay over $400 for a portable dvd player with the very same screen, and same battery life. [buy.com]

          It has usb ports, put any game controller on it that you want to.
          If you don't want to "lug around" a big keyboard, don't worry I'm sure someone will make a usb nifty little fold up keyboard [buy.com] like the ones for Palms.
          You don't need a mouse, it has a touch screen.
          Of course bigger screens and interface devices are better for prolonged use and I've got 2 words for you: docking station. Many people use a docking station with their laptops already.
          Your palm is synced to your desktop for todo list/calendar stuff, but one of these wouldn't need to SYNC, it could BE the main computer.
          This isn't a toy like the PocketPC things, it is a full computer. I don't travel, so this isn't for me, but you can bet that many people who do travel would love to have one device that would replace both their PDA and their laptop, even if they have to carry several batteries and a kit to plug it into the cigarette lighter in their car.

          A PDA is still better at being a PDA than this thing is, and 2 hours is a serious problem, no doubt about it. But calling this an iPod with a pretty screen is close minded.
      • How many of those could you stick in a 1U rackmount box?
    • no kidding. For me, the Palm III is too large. I think something perhaps the size of a pager or smaller would be about the upper limit size-wise of something I'd want to carry around with me all the time. More ideally, the size of a credit card. Cramming an adequate UI into something that size is an exercise for the next engineer who wants my $500.
    • Am I missing something?

      Some imagination?

    • The point isn't to sit a bunch of them around the house. If I'm reading the site correctly, the main convenience is convertability. For example:

      You are at your office working on your desktop/workstation (with full size monitor, keyboard, etc) when you get a call from (datacenter/field/client/outside-location) and they want you to come out right away because of some problem. Traditionally, if you needed a computer there you would either work on a completely new machine, or you would grab a laptop, which probably has a completely different set of files on it.

      With this product, you could slide the MCC out of the desktop holder and into your notebook shell, and now you have a notebook computer that is exactly identical to the desktop you were just working on. Or better yet, if the remote site also has desktop MCC holders, you just grab the MCC and slip it in at the remote location. It would be impractical to bring a real desktop with you, (to big and/or heavy) and though you can have removable hard drives they really aren't the same as actually having the same complete machine as your laptop and desktop etc. This way it really IS exactly the same.

      Or as another example, maybe you have some work to take home from the office. Rather than transferring everything to a CD or to your laptop, you can just grab the MCC out of your work computer and bring it home, then plug it into your home desktop shell. Now you have access to all of your work data AND software without having to reinstall anything (and without needing new licenses), and it is a real desktop solution, not like the cramped keyboard/monitor you would get on a laptop.

      Actually, one of the companies I consult for recently converted all their desktop machines to notebooks, even though 90% of the time they are just sitting in the office. The reason was to save on software costs (don't need two licenses, one for mobile use and one for office use) and they can quickly get up and go if they need to. The also purchased extra keyboards (and/or 10keys) and peripherals for all the laptops because they didn't have all the features they wanted. Having a solution like the MCC would actually have been a lot better for them.

      All I want to know is are they vapor or not? :)
    • There may not be an immediate market (or at least not a big one) for these devices, but ultimatly, it is a step it the right direction. Desktops are huge when compared to laptops. But laptops are huge compared to palm/pocket-pc devices. I have no problems carrying around my Sony Clie, and would love it to have the full power of a desktop machine.
    • I don't mind getting a few of those to use as firewall/DNS/router/web server. Currently, my firewall is an old P100, which is huge and I need a KVM switch to monitor it. Of course, putting one of these in every room in the house would be great too.

      I don't see any network connection on this thing, i guess you would need a usb network card.
    • Hrm.

      My Apple Newton 2100 is significantly larger (about the size of a mini-legal pad; that is, the four by six inch ones) and heavier (a couple of pounds anyway), and it's WAY better, easier to use, and more expandable (drivers for IBM microdrives on PCMCIA cards are on the way soon, 802.11B ethernet works right now, various PCMCIA ethernet cards have worked for quite a while) than the Palm IIIx I kicked to the curb for it. (Too bad Apple stopped making them in '97...)

      The moving parts thing is perhaps moderately valid... only but laptops seem to deal just fine (barring stupidly fragile plastic bits; that's why you should be using a sparcbook!).
    • 5.8" 800x600 screen 10GB disk...

      what about organizer/mp3 player and
      picture shower in one????

      all the other ones have to small
      a screen but this one would be
      pretty perfect....

      maybe a special enclosure with
      a double sized foldable screen
      would be even better...:-)

      I WANT ONE....

      got all those pics I can't
      show to anybody unless I run
      around with my laptop...
  • please post some google cache of the images
  • Here is a link to the google cache [216.239.53.100] of the page. Enjoy!

  • from the google cache (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 05, 2002 @05:42PM (#4014685)
    The MCC, or "mobile computer core," is a totally new PC architecture centered around a processor, internal battery, data storage and computer software applications. An additional power supply, display, communications and input/output connectors are accessories that you choose based on your individual preferences and work environment.

    The core consists the Crusoe processor by Transmeta, 10 GB hard disk and 256 MB Ram all contained within 3"x5"x3/4"--smaller than a typical PDA. Low power consumption makes it ideal for portable applications, and no fan is required. It will automatically identify and adapt its system, power management, thermal, software and user interface behavior, depending on the attached accessory.

    Use it to run Windows 2000, WindowsXP, or Linux operating systems. Use it in multiple configurations--desktop, laptop, handheld, tablet, or wearable. Above all, use it to simplify your life, save time and improve your access.

    MCC Specifications:
    300 - 800 MHz Crusoe Processor by Transmeta
    Variable voltage 0.9 to 1.3 V
    256 MB SDRAM
    10 GB 1.8" ATA-5 Disk
    Silicon Motion Lynx 721 3D Graphics w/8MB
    Core physical specifications:
    257 g (9.1 oz)
    18.5x72x126 mm, 0.73x2.8x5.0 inches
    10.2 cubic inches
    Handheld shell:
    Display: 5.8" 800x600 backlit active matrix
    Touchscreen
    Battery: 10.8V 1400mAh 15.1Wh
    Battery life: approximately 2 hours
    Weight 390 g (13.7 oz)
    I/O: 2 USB, Audio In/Out, DC In
    Core & shell combined specifications:
    647 g (1.425 lb)
    30.5x170x102 mm (1.20x6.69x4.016 in
    32.234 cubic inches
    I/O signals on docking connector:
    PC Card
    3x USB
    DVI Digital Video
    VGA Analog Video
    PS2 Mouse/Keyboard
    Microphone In
    Amp Out Stereo
    Line Out Stereo
    DC In
    2.5V, 3.3V, 5V power to accessories
    Control signals
    Docking ID & control
    Backlight brightness control
    SMB Bus for battery monitoring.

  • I read about this at OQO site a few days ago. I would post a link to their FAQ now, but it already got slashdotted so I can't do that. Basically one thing that got my attention was they intend, is for the price of this to be less than the average laptop. I would figure so because it doesn't come with that many extravagent components. I expect it to be less than $1000. I sure hope they mass produce it and maybe come out with a cheaper model.

    Also in their faq, they say that they're not trying to compete with PDA's, although I think they will indirectly, even though they aren't the same kind of product.
  • Google cache for Antelope Technologies [216.239.39.100] and their product [216.239.39.100]. Also, I'd post OQO's [oqo.com] cached site, but it is all Flashed up.

  • Another IBM article (Score:5, Informative)

    by digital_freedom ( 453387 ) on Monday August 05, 2002 @05:51PM (#4014744)
    Here's another one that sill has pictures of the MCC: IBM Research article [ibm.com]. It looks pretty small and cool.
  • For one of these. Slot it into the bay of a notebook case with screen and keyboard, slot it into a docking station to run a big monitor and heavy duty keyboard, slot it into a chord keyboard, mini HUD and mouse for use on airplanes or between meetings. And perhaps a PDA type screen to clip on one face. Ideally, have the docking station take two so you can sync them overnight and have a live recovery system. I could lock one in the safe when I go on vacation and take the other with me. And, let's face it, 100/gigabit Ethernet and Firewire mean that the I/O of these things isn't going to be ridiculously limited. Though it will really come into its own when flash memory over 1Gbyte gets cheap.

    I'm prepared self-sacrificingly to be a beta tester, IBM please note.

  • Google Cache (Score:3, Informative)

    by sarcast ( 515179 ) on Monday August 05, 2002 @06:10PM (#4014826)
    The google cache [216.239.33.100] of the site.
  • Will I be able to buy one of these things _without_ Microsoft XP? As things are heading right now, Microsoft OS's will cost more than these alone.

    If they offer these alone (you may go out and purchase XP if you want, having the option, but...) , then they -will- be a hot seller, because they will be extremely affordable right from the start.
  • Haven't we learnt anything? When presented with "mumblemumble or Vapourware(tm)" the answer is ALWAYS Vapourware(tm).

  • Test run (Score:2, Funny)

    by Bakobull ( 301976 )
    They must be using one of these for the web server.
  • Oh yeah...almost forgot the obligatory

    imagine a beowulf cluster of these :)

  • Our Server (Score:2, Informative)

    by AntelopeMCC ( 598661 )
    We are in the process of upgrading our server. Sorry you are getting errors.
  • Antelope Technologies, what a great name! I wonder if "Gazel" or "Mule Deer" technologies is taken? Nothing like an ugly cousin of the deer to make me think fast, compact technology. Then again, the antelope is very fast [asb-biomech.org].
  • I know I'm probably in the minority, but I'd *love* to have either a MCC-based computer or an OQO to replace my iBook+Jornada 720 combination now. The thought of being able to carry around my entire operating environment, the same one I use on my iBook running just as fast as it does now is very appealing. the current generation of 206 MHz StrongARMs definately aren't bad, but I must admit, having a 1 GHz Transmeta CPU in a PDA-type device with the ability to simple take it wherever I go gets me all wet.

    The MCC is also an incredible idea, however with it I'm more concerned about the higher price to get a real use out of it- for my needs. That is, you have different 'shells' for the MCC, and I doubt the PDA shell is as full featured as the OQO shell, and as a result, I'd need to get either the laptop shell or the docking shell, so I could hook up USB and VGA.

    I've been half-planning for a while to sell my iBook and Jornada 720 and buy an OQO a few months after they come out. Wish they would!

    Aaron

  • Its been said before, and it shall be said again, Sony's Really Small Notebook(TM) [www.sony.jp] does kind of rock.

    I wouldn't really want to read too much Kanji, let alone English, on it's display, and there are standard potential OS quarms, but it does have a certain coolness, and it is actually available.

    Although I'm quite content reading about it on my iBook, which is about as small a computer as my hands can get down with...

    • Interesting thing I noticed from one of the subpages on this.. The baby vio comes with a MD drive. Now, as I've been too cheap to go out and replace my MD walkman with an mp3 system, this thing could have the potential to be seriously useful. Question is, can you also write data to the MDs? Last I had heard, there was only one MD data drive from a long time back that only handled about 100M. If they upped the capacity, this would be incredibly useful to me, since I have tons of MDs around, and I like the idea of security through obscurity (who else has MD drives available?). That, and maybe (obligatory matrix reference), I can start getting people to buy the 0day off me before I go out and follow the rabbit...

      • This link [minidisc.org] tells us the data storage of a minidisc (data mode) is 140MB...

        Whilst this link [minidisc.org] tells us the state of play regarding the use of MD data years ago, and I don't really think it improved from here much (other than four-track audio recorder systems which used MD data but for audio purposes)...

        The big monster vaio notebooks (and the highest end desktops) in the UK are starting to come with internal MD drives but as far as I am aware they only work with the slightly dodgy Sony music downloading software (no non-audio data)...

        However, most Sony computer gear also comes with Memory Stick slots, which is becomming my favourite (small) removable format - mini, but not stupidly so...

  • I love the idea of this thing, but it just smacks of vapor. We've seen a bunch of these type things lately and none of them get past the pretty website stage. This one has plenty of info, but look a little closer.

    For instance, their "MCC Notebook Shell" is merely an IBM T series notebook (complete with "Intel Inside" and "Designed for Windows X" labels on the lower left corner) with a nondescript black box sitting next to it. The pic of the wearable device is ripped off another story I've read somewhere about an IBM wearable machine and I even feel like I've seen that tablet pic before, but it's probably just suspicions now...

    If they're going to claim cool new devices like this, they need to at least get some genuine pictures of it before I'll get my hopes up.
  • i noticed a ultra dense server and a personal server the size of a watch on their page. wonder if they're webpage is running off of a "personal server" that or they're running .net server.............

  • Hmm (Score:1)

    by Bytal ( 594494 )
    Maybe if they used these with those portable fuel cells that we keep hearing about this could be an extremely effective accessory. Think an information/communication/GPS/Phone accessory all in one. Since its very close to a desktop computer it can do anything a desktop can. If someone puts a camera on it it can even be a video phone and digital camera all in one. Everything from reading ebooks or watching videos to having video conferences in the middle of the street and wirelessly accessing your home computer. It would also solve the problem of not having enough space on your mp3 player/digital camera/pda I think that this MMC and the OQO are actually the future of portable computing. If only the battery life problem was solved there wouldn't be anyone who would not want one of these.
  • Will it be able to play Neverwinter Nights [bioware.com] at a LAN party? ;-)
  • Looks a lot like this Linux based device HERE [dotdesigntech.com]. I've submitted this X-tend to /. for a story a number of times, but I guess /. would rather pay attention to Windows based stuff now.

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