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Sony Introduces Passage 134

Posted by Hemos from the making-the-world-work dept.
UncleCrispy writes "Sony, a newcomer in the cable industry announced its new technology, Passage, on the opening day of the BroadBand Plus Show to the receptive ears of the cable community. "Sony's Passage Technology is a simple, elegant solution that allows equipment from multiple vendors to peacefully co-exist on legacy digital CATV networks" Now you won't be stuck with the SetTopBox your cable provider forces on you, but with Passage you should be able to go to the store and buy any box you want. If you want a DVR box, you can buy it, and you'll no longer be stuck with the rental fees. Sounds like it's a good deal for the cable providers and consumers, but how will current SetTopBox monopolies take the news?"
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Sony Introduces Passage More

Sony Introduces Passage

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  • rental fees ain't bad. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Lumpy ( 12016 ) on Thursday December 05, 2002 @06:21AM (#4817462) Homepage
    hmm my cablemodem costs $100.00 in the stores. my rental fee is $5.00 a month. I have had the cable modem die twice in 2 years and they replaced it for free because I was renting it while my neighbor had to go buy a new one from the store..

    I figure that I'm way ahead of the game because I rented. and next year when the Cable company changes a few things and requires a change in the calbe modems, I get a free one while he has to buy another modem...

    what's the advantage of owning your cable equipment again?

    BTW, I had my digital cable box replaced once in the past 2 years also...
    • On the flip side: I have Charter.net. Modem rental fees were $10/month for a cable modem priced at ~$100. I've had mine for 2 years, saving myself $140 by buying the unit. However, the price of rental just went from $10 to $3. So it seems to vary from situation to situation. You alos have to wonder how many extras (PVR being a good eaxmple) a third-party box might have.
    • hmm my cablemodem costs $100.00 in the stores. my rental fee is $5.00 a month

      Most stores have deals on cablemodems. I just bought a cablemodem: it cost me $20 after rebates. It'll pay for itself in 4 months.

      I figure that I'm way ahead of the game because I rented.

      It could be that you're getting lapped... ;-) ;-)

    • hmm my cablemodem costs $100.00 in the stores. my rental fee is $5.00 a month.... what's the advantage of owning your cable equipment again?

      I paid $50 for my LinkSys cable modem at CompUsa after rebates. It will pay for itself in less than a year. If the cable company ever requires a change in the near future (doubtful) I can always sell my modem on ebay.
      • Interesting... your cable companies itemize the cost of the modems on your bill? Mine (TW/RR) simply charges one flat rate which includes the cable modem (and up to 5 IPs, which will be useful when I build my house with CAT 5e prewired).

        Remainder of my .sig: be the majority of voters
        • My cable company itemizes the bill out to charging for the remote. That takes balls...
          • My cable company itemizes the bill out to charging for the remote. That takes balls...

            Same here. I returned the remote and am now saving $0.21 a month. There is also an "Other Fees" charge of $0.16 on my bill. I have no idea what that's from. Maybe it's for stealing photons when I look at the cable trucks or something...
            • My cable company doesn't charge for rental of the STB. You just don't have any choice - it's part of the montly charge. (Although you can, as I do, rent a second box for NZD$10/month - or ~USD$5/month). But we also pay for extra channels provided by the national satellite tv company (the cable tv provider in the two cities here that have cable hopped in to bed with the only satellite tv company, and thus sky (they satellite) manages the catv content. We also pay for our modem - $17/month. (Or about USD$8.50/month). It's DOCSIS, so I presume I could buy my own. But why bother? They don't sell cable modems in New Zealand (with only one carrier, why bother?), so it'd be hard to convince them to let me use it, I'd bet.
    • Of course, what Sony is announcing is a CATV box, *not* a cable modem. Most cable systems force you to rent a cable box (and, wonder of wonders, since they're a monopoly, they can gouge as much as they want) - this allows you to get a unit with the features you want.

      Jon
      • Most cable systems force you to rent a cable box (and, wonder of wonders, since they're a monopoly, they can gouge as much as they want)

        They are? In my area the cable companies are scrambling to try to maintain their customer base in the face of satellite TV, and the numbers that keep coming out show them losing the battle. Just because there's one company on one medium doesn't make them a monopoly.

        Having said that, I've oft wondered about such a standard: I have a Motorola box for my digital cable and it has a painfully slow GUI: Pulling up the menu you can literally watch it drawing the lines. Scanning through the channel listing, and again it's at least 2-3 seconds per page just waiting for it to draw. On top of that I'm sort of locked out of PVRs (unless the cable company provides it) because of the proprietary nature of the digital cable network, which is exactly what it looks like Sony is trying to solve.
        • On top of that I'm sort of locked out of PVRs (unless the cable company provides it) because of the proprietary nature of the digital cable network, which is exactly what it looks like Sony is trying to solve.
          TiVos will control many digital cable boxes in the same way that they'll control analog cable boxes. Mine takes S-video and audio from a Scientific-Atlanta Explorer 2100, and it uses infrared to change channels. The only time I've run into problems is when Cox sends out a firmware update to the box...it shuts off when it's done, and the TiVo won't turn it back on. There are fixes for that problem (one involves using the switched power outlet on the back of the cable box to hit the "power" button on a cheap remote control when the box is switched off); I just haven't gotten around to building one yet.
      • Of course, what Sony is announcing is a CATV box, *not* a cable modem. Most cable systems force you to rent a cable box...

        Only if you want pay-TV channels and/or pay-per-view. Since everything else on an analog-cable network is sent in-the-clear, if you're only interested in keeping up with South Park and Iron Chef, you can run the cable straight from the wall into your TV/VCR/TiVo/etc. I did that for years until I saw something on digital cable that I wanted.

    • My cable modem used to cost $10 a month. I guess a lot of people were buying their own modems though, because recently the company raised internet prices by $7 and lowered the modem rental to $3. Didn't change my bill at all. But if you were using your own modem, now you are paying more.
      God I hate AT&T.

  • Huh? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 05, 2002 @06:25AM (#4817470)
    Sony works against a monopoly? Warm coats are on their way to hell right now, I guess. Can you be more ignorant of Sony's business tactics?
    • Excuse me, but why is Sony a monopoly? In which area exactly? Video games? Don't think so, Nintendo for example owns about 90% of the handheld console market. TVs? VCRs? What? Where?

      I understand and appreciate the Slashdotter's concern about monopolies etc., but Sony is where it is today because they produce better products than the competition. The Clie is better than the palms, the Playstation was better than the Saturn, the minidiscs were better technology than anything at the time.

    • Well, as a long-time observer I'll say this, they're very smart and very patient now. It'll probably work really really great with Sony brand stuff and ok with other brand stuff. Sony doesn't cut off their own nose to spite their face.

      Consider, Sony doesn't exactly drop lemons in the laps of consumers and they have built a solid name with their products. I'm even using a VAIO laptop (though it's 3 yrs old and I consider it slowwwww, it's still an excellent design and has withstood much punshiment)

      I'd look at how this flies in the face of what Microsoft has been attempting to do with entry into the set-top and TV-centric market (which is lackluster at best, but highly lucrative if they ever could exercise that monopoly power again) The XBox was not just a game, but planned as their gateway to managing your TV viewing (with games, internet, spying on you, all that good stuff...)

    • Re:Huh? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Bobman1235 ( 191138 )
      Sony works against a monopoly? Warm coats are on their way to hell right now, I guess. Can you be more ignorant of Sony's business tactics?


      Just because a business is large and successful does NOT make it a monopoly. This is a typical Slashdot perception that is just absolutely ridiculous. I personally don't like Sony, I think most of their products are sub-par, and I therefore do NOT purchase from them. Bad business tactics make a bad company, but not necessarily a monopoly. So stop crying wolf and just buy non-Sony products. With a monopoly you would not have that option.

    • Monopoly? No.

      EEEE-VIL! Yes.

      Sony makes good products, but their attitude stinks.
    • Actually, it's more of a duopoly - Motorola Broadband and Scientific Atlanta.
      • You can be considered a monopoly with 40% of the market - you don't have to have it all, you just have to have an unduly strong influence.

        ---
        war is peace
        television is truth
        protest is treason
        Why ask why?

  • What is this thing? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ArcSecond ( 534786 ) on Thursday December 05, 2002 @06:28AM (#4817475)
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but this doesn't sound like a Sony product for the home, but one for the cable companies, right? I'm sure Sony will have consumer products associated with this (ie PS2, some new PVR, other integrated A/V gear), but with stupid-sounding buzzwords like "Legacy CA Agnostic", it must be aimed a the pointy-haired crowd out there.

    Anyone know who they are competing with? Is this a transport protocol + hardware, or the other way around?

    • Re:What is this thing? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by grammar nazi ( 197303 ) on Thursday December 05, 2002 @06:37AM (#4817493) Journal
      ...but how will current SetTopBox monopolies take the news?

      Easy. They will do what all monopolies do when competition enters their markets. They will either squash Sony's box through legislation or deals with the cable companies, or, they will lower their prices.

      Competition == Good for consumers
      ALWAYS.

      • Actually the FCC passed a bill around 1996 that requires cable companies to support other digital cable boxes besides the ones they provide.
      • They will either squash Sony's box through legislation or deals with the cable companies, or, they will lower their prices.


        Competition == Good for consumers
        ALWAYS.

        So how do you suppose they will lower their prices?

        What do you suppose the top brass are going to gather together in a board room and determine to be the best way to cut prices? Layoffs. Transfer more of the scut work to some 3rd world plants.

        And of course give themselves a fat bonus for such creative thinking.

        Layoffs really don't help the economy. They should by no means be interpreted as something "good" for consumers.
        • Perfect example:
          AT&T Broadband just screwed everyone who purchased a cheap cable modem by dropping the cable modem rental by $7 and raising the internet access by $7. If a open standard allows other hardware to coexist on their network, they will do the same thing on the TV side.
      • "Competition == Good for consumers
        ALWAYS.        "

        Hmmmm. Stagecoach [bus company from Scotland] went into small areas and undercut small local coach operators, by initially making losses, and driving the competition out of business, leaving consumers with no choice.
        They amassed huge profits, became dominant, using their now competition-less environments to fund expansion into other areas, and spending millions on campaigning against equal-rights for gay people.
        Always, my arse.
        • Similar in Warrington, Nr. Manchester. North-western (later Arriva) came in and ran more, better, busses. Took over on most routes, then the service died outside rush hour. They took the best routes, and left the council to subsidise school runs, weekends and late night runs.

          However while there was competition, we got 6 busses an hour (not 2), and prices stayed the same for 2 years (having doubled in the previous year).

          Competition is good. When competition ends, its bad.
      • No.

        Fair Competition == Good for Consumers
    • This product appears to be geared toward cable operators (MSOs) who are providing a digital tier as part of their services. You see, in existing cable systems, the entire network must be fairly homogenous. ie, the same set-tops in the home, the same headends in the network, etc, etc. This, of course, locks an MSO in with a particular vendor and reduces competition. According to the hype on their web site, they are providing a product which allows multiple types of set top boxes and multiple head-ends from different vendors to exist in the same network. IOW, it allows the MSO to mix and match hardware to suit their needs.

      As for the term "Legacy CA Agnostic", this is actually quite important. What they're saying is that you can roll out this "Passage" technology in a cable network without disrupting the existing cable access system. So, you could roll out a new type of STB in homes if you wanted, or allow people to start purchasing STBs from other vendors, without breaking your current network set up.

      As for the architecture, it appears to involve replicating signalling and control data for each of the STB types in the network (using encryption to separate the "channels") and then doing regular broadcast for the video stream. At least, that's what I can get from their Architecture description (which is rather vague... surprise, surprise). This allows for multiple STBs while keeping bandwidth overhead at a minimum, since only the signalling needs to be replicated.

  • Freedom to choose _multiple_ STBs? (Score:5, Informative)

    by jki ( 624756 ) on Thursday December 05, 2002 @06:33AM (#4817483) Homepage
    Now you won't be stuck with the SetTopBox your cable provider forces on you, but with Passage you should be able to go to the store and buy any box you want

    Is that really so? Maybe I misunderstood the whitepaper [sonypassage.com] but to me it seemed like the main benefit would be that you can now make multiple set top boxes co-exist. The cable provider may still force you to buy their preffered STB also (by encryption for example) - but now you don't have to buy that only :) Or...

    Maybe I misunderstood it completely, if so, could someone explain the concept more clearly than the whitepaper does :)

    • Re:Freedom to choose _multiple_ STBs? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by papasui ( 567265 ) on Thursday December 05, 2002 @08:14AM (#4817670) Homepage
      Sure, around 1996 the FCC passed a bill that would require the cable companies to support 3rd party digital cable boxes besides the ones that they rent out. Just as there's a the DOCSIS standard for cable modems, there's standards for the digital box. Any fairly new cable box should work on most digital cable systems, it does require that it be provisioned (authorized) on that cable system by enter the box number into the system.
      • The current US DAVIC standard will allow any DAVIC compliant box to operate on any system.. HOWEVER.. the catch is the CA (Conditional access part). as that, for now, is tied to each box and/or the QAMs.. boxes from one cable system can not be moved to another cable system if they are using another vendor's hardware (QAM or other). More of the vendors are considering using a plug-in CA unit which will allow such movement.. but until that day comes...
      • I legally purchased a digital set top box from Ebay that is model - identical to the one I was renting from the cable company. Thought I would save 7.00 a month. However, when I called my local former-microsoft-executive-owned cable company, they told me that they could not make this box work with their system, that all of the boxes came pre-programmed from Motorola to work with their system. Is this correct, or just an I don't want to screw with you response? I was under the impression that because of said FCC bill, they had to hook this up for me. Anyone know?
  • "Now you won't be stuck with the SetTopBox your cable provider forces on you..."

    But the SetTobBox-providers will be forced to pay licence fees to Sony?

    Apart from that, it sounds like a great idea. Standards that allow competition are always welcome!

  • Well monopolies will be surely very mad for Sony about this, they might even try to find a way to sue them for anything.
    Instead, Small manufacturers will be partying today, tomorrow, and day after that, cause they will finally have some 'edge', as customer can choose the box itself and small manufacturers might get their boxes sold more often. =)
    Sony go go!

    • Re:SetTopBox monopolies... (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Sony go go!

      Yeah, let's cheer Sony, for they are our savior, who protects us from evil big business and cost-driving monopolies. It's SONY, stupid!

      • Re:SetTopBox monopolies... (Score:4, Funny)

        by Martin Blank ( 154261 ) on Thursday December 05, 2002 @07:55AM (#4817626) Homepage Journal
        From the perspective of the geek, there is no company with more personalities than Sony:

        They're a member of the RIAA (BOO!!!)

        But they came out with a driver that reads and writes both DVD+R/RW and DVD-R/RW (YAY!!!)

        But they're a member of the MPAA (BOO!!!)

        But they come up with technology like this that allows competition in what are now monopoly situations (YAY!!!)

        Sony is about the only company out there that we can pretty much agree we both love and hate at the same time.
    • I think most of you are looking at this too narrow mindedely. Set top boxes THEMSELVES are evil. It is nothing but a gradual intruction of technology that will eventually make EVERYTHING pay per view. I say they all need to be made to work with tuners built into Televisions and all televisions should be shipped with standard tuners that work with standard cable providers, etc, etc, etc.
      Why can't we just go back to a single remote again?

  • So you know the name of the first hack already ;-) (Score:5, Funny)

    by cheros ( 223479 ) on Thursday December 05, 2002 @06:40AM (#4817501)
    No prizes for guessing what the first hack of this standard is going to be called. Hint for those that haven't reached the required caffeine level yet: you're sitting on it. Duh ;-).

    [Ch]
  • I guess we have geeks/enthusiasts for every possible field/product in this world... I didn't get most of the "terms" they used in the specifications.
    interesting concept... but will the cable companies accept it ? Is not that the BIG question here ?

  • Choice - for whom? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Bazzargh ( 39195 ) on Thursday December 05, 2002 @06:43AM (#4817509)
    This reads like it gives /cable companies/ more choice in STB's, not consumers. So it will let them change suppliers on a whim. This might provide consumer benefits (lower rental costs) but since the alternate destination for the savings is higher margins for the cable co's, I wouldnt bet on it.

    Quote from the passage blurb: "With Passage, operators can introduce[...] innovative set-top boxes". I don't see how you can read this as "With Passage, operators can introduce innovative services on commodity set-top boxes", which is what the /. article imples.

    -Baz

  • Perhaps I'm missing something... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Blacklaw ( 311963 ) on Thursday December 05, 2002 @06:50AM (#4817521) Homepage Journal
    ...but it sounds similar to something we've already got here in the UK. When ITVDigital went bust, the old set-top boxes could still receive the 'free-to-air' digital channels, such as BBC4 and ITV2. To get more people to switch on (no pun intended) to digital television, the Government (who are talking about switching off the old analogue system sometime in 2004) told set-top manufacturers to make more of these old boxes.

    The result is that you can buy FreeView boxes for £100 which pick up around thirty digital channels - without paying a subscription fee. And it's not just a BBC monopoly - any broadcaster who shoves out a free-to-air digital channel can be picked up on a FreeView box.

    I dunno, I'm probably missing something incredibly clever that Sony have done to make this 'new'.

    -Blacklaw

    • Re:Perhaps I'm missing something... (Score:4, Informative)

      by class_A ( 324713 ) on Thursday December 05, 2002 @07:24AM (#4817567)
      A better example would be Sky in the UK. You cannot view encrypted Sky DTH satellite broadcasts unless you buy a specific Sky branded receiver. This limits the viewer to a range of "approved" boxes which differ very little in basic specification.

      In Europe, viewers can purchase a generic DVB-S decoder with the features they want and then plug in the required encryption module (similar to a PCMCIA card) for the encryption standard that their chosen provider uses.

      The UK situation will hopefully change next year as the European Union is forcing all broadcasters to move to the modular system, which will mean that Sky will have to release an encryption module for those generic boxes.
    • I think its 2010 that there is goning to be no analogue tranmission at all (well thats the target).

      he bbc dont have a monopoly but they are technically the only people we have to pay our beloved TV License for :)

      the gits!!!!!

  • Flashback (Score:4, Interesting)

    by 1stflight ( 48795 ) on Thursday December 05, 2002 @06:53AM (#4817532)
    I'm remembering how a Sony exec once said they'd "firewall file trading at your PC". And I can't help but wonder if this is somehow part of that ?

  • I Speak For My Tribe When I Say "Huh?" (Score:5, Informative)

    by RobotRunAmok ( 595286 ) on Thursday December 05, 2002 @07:05AM (#4817546)
    Now Sony is protecting us from those evil American Empires Motorola and Scientific/Atlanta, as well as that nasty Canadian robber baron Videotron, as well as all those evil Korean STB monopolies? Um, Ok, great. Thanks.

    Next time, will somebody please circulate a memo reminding us from whom we need saving? I'm losing track.

    Also, this is not a consumer product. The Western Show where Sony made it's announcement is a Cable Operators Trade Show, a Comdex for the head-end and pole-climbing set. You can't walk into your local Radio Shack or Circuit Shack, buy a spiffy Sony Passage sitting up there on a shelf next to their Vaio's and PS2's, take it home, and give your Motorola box back to Comcast.

    The key to understanding the role of the Passage, as I take it from following the links provided, is that the technology enables cable operators to purchase and deploy the 3 NEW SONY STB's ALSO BEING ANNOUNCED at the show. It would seem to allow a plant with existing S/A or Motorola infrastructure to hopskotch around their implied commitment to deploy S/A or Motorola boxes in the home, and use the new Sony STBs instead. The roll-out is presumed rather painless as well, as the Passage seems to allow old school and new Sony boxes to co-exist for an infinite time.

    Of course, the technology economics of cable head ends are all balanced among the one-time-only cost of the legacy headend gear, and the presumed-to-be-ever-growing costs of the franchise build-out and additional STBs. For this reason, companies such as Motorola and S/A are typically inclined to provide sweet deals on the former encoder "razors," cuz they know the real money is to be made on the latter STB "blades." Sony wet-blankets those economics now. I'm sure the immediate fall-out of Passage will be a re-wording of a lot of their rivals' sales agreements locking low costs for the head-end gear into commitments for minimum STB purchases.

    More business for the lawyers. More meetings for the salesguys. But none of this effects a consumer's "choice." You'll take whatever your cable company puts on top of your TV, end of story.
    • One of the telecom acts (not the one in 1996, something more recent) required that the cable companies allow access from third party boxes. However, this requires that there be a technical solution. Sony has now announced that one exists, and the cable companies agreed to a standard a few months ago.

      This means that he reality of competition should take hold in the next two years. This is great news for consumers.

      I switched from AT&T Broadband to DirecTV. The choice in receivers (particularly in HDTV STBes) was part of my reasoning. With an Open Cable solution, cable users will eventually get things like dual-tuner Tivo devices, but not until the cable companies send everything in digital.

      In Boston, I could my first 60 channels or so in the much higher quality analog feeds than the over-compressed digital cable feeds.

      This will be good for consumers, it will just take time.

      Expect a Sony-branded Tivo enabled cable device within 18 months.

      Alex

  • Boycott Sony (Score:2, Insightful)

    by slashuzer ( 580287 )
    I just love the hipocracy here. When Sony comes out with "technology" to help our "rights" eberyone is fuming and boycotting Sony and their products because they are the evil incarnate and now everyone want to get on the sony cable wagon.

    Way to go!

    • I gotta say, I'm getting pretty damned tired of these posts. Not only do people who post this sort of thing merely prove that they are incapable of making distinctions between good and bad things without resorting to child-like simplifications of categories ("Microsoft: ALL PURE EVIL. Linux: ALL PURE GOOD. No exceptions possible, lest the world become a complicated place with gray areas and stuff!"), they get up on their high horse and berate everybody else for being mature enough to say "Yes, X is largely evil, but action Y is a good thing overall." Talk about opening one's mouth and removing all doubt...

      Even one person can do good things while being more-or-less evil, or do evil things while being more-or-less good. Instead of accusing everyone of being a hypocrite (and perhaps worse yet, moderating such things as "Insightful" of all things! as of this writing, the parent isn't moderated but previous messages of this type often are), why not grow up, get with the program, and recognize that under the label Sony is a complex company, comprised of thousands of complex human beings, that can not be boiled down to one word "evil", OK? And hold the insufferable "Look, me see hypocrites! You dare think Evil Thing did good thing? Hah! What you think next? Linux may not be God's Gift To Man in every way? Fool, Linux is All Double-Plus Good! No Evil possible! Gray areas impossible! Detailed thinking just hypocrisy! Ugh says so!"
      • I gotta say, I'm getting pretty damned tired of these posts.

        Amen, brother! A little lesson for everyone: Your brain is not a bit field.

        Oh, and one more thing. Since the Slashdot community is a large, diverse collection of individuals, I have to wonder how he was able to get a representative sample of all those readers in just 1.5 hours?

    • Actually, the Passage isn't something that enhances our choice, it's something for the cable monopoly to enhance their choice. It allows them to mix-and-match their backend technologies, where before they were locked into using one brand of equipment on their side for the whole operation.

  • Jeopardy (Score:4, Funny)

    by evilviper ( 135110 ) on Thursday December 05, 2002 @08:13AM (#4817668) Journal
    but how will current SetTopBox monopolies take the news?

    What is: "Not Well", Alex.
    • How do you figure that... Sure the entrenched provider will be shaking in their STBs.. but for the players who have been trying to crack into the market.. its gold for them.

      Of course... lets be real here.. MSO's ride a fine line of profit... they are not going to make a mass switch (even with a second source.. a second source supplier is just that).. because the cost (labor, training, support, hardware, etc....) is too high.. Oh, they will dangle that carrot out in front of their suppliers.. (drop your prices or else).. but its like a business deciding on the next 400 machines they purchase will be MACs not PCs.. the labor, training, support, etc.. costs are too high for that to happen... as much as I would love to see it occur)

      Just my 3 1/2 cents (isn't inflation great?, more money, less buying power)
      • How do you figure that... Sure the entrenched provider will be shaking in their STBs.. but for the players who have been trying to crack into the market.. its gold for them.


        Try reading the question next time:
        but how will current SetTopBox
        monopolies take the news?

        Not a single thing about those trying to break-in to the market.
  • and fit the set-top function inside. The tv has become enough of a tower-of-boxes. Let's see if we can take one off the top. Standardization like this is the first step.

    Remember the old days when quadraphonic was coming, but nobody new exactly how? Marantz had the plug-in on the bottom of their receiver where, whenever the dominant quad decoding scheme emerged, you'd be able to buy and plug it in.

    Oops, quadrasonics didn't fly. But I still wish cable boxen could be a plug-in nested inside my TV or VCR. Signal and remote control interfaces, etc.
  • Since when has anyone seen the cable companies LOWER thier prices, I think this just gives them another reason to RAISE thier already high prices. Giving everyone the opertunity to purchase thier own STBs will cause them to have a plethora of thier own STBs laying around collecting duat and not generating rental fees. I will stick with my DirecTV.

  • Is it only me, or has this title something really weird ? I mean, "introduces passage" sounds like hard pr0n to me. Add "Sony" to the mix, and it imagine how it turns. At least it's not a dupe.

  • Sony is stupid- this has already happened!!! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward


    People, go to www.opencable.com.

    Moderator: please moderate this up.

    • He's right. Around 2005 all MSO's have to implement OpenCable, which will allow any box to interoperate with any MSO, using a pluggable encryption module called a POD.

      The better thing is that OpenCable is based on DVB-MHP and DVB-C, which is based on DVB-S. PCI cards for all! (well, sometime around 2006)
    • Actually, Sony references opencable on their
      website.

    • OpenCable solves the access problem from the consumer's perspective -- compliant third-party boxes should connect to the cable network and get properly authorized. In order to receive premium encrypted content, the consumer will still have to get a POD from their cable company. There is a standard physical interface in an OpenCable STB that the POD plugs into.

      From the cable company's perspective, if they are using one of the proprietary encryption schemes provided by Motorola or Scientific Atlanta, which are covered by patents, the cable company will have to obtain proprietary PODs. Moto and SA will charge an arm or a leg for those devices to make up for lost STB sales. Many cable companies would like to get "out from under" Moto and SA's thumb.

      In the past, that required that the company broadcast two complete copies of the digital line-up, one encrypted using the proprietary technology and one using some new, less-expensive, hopefully-open system. The Sony technology reduces the dual broadcast penalty from 100% of bandwidth to something less than 10%. The STB part of Passage can be implemented in a POD.

      So OpenCable and Passage are complimentary technologies solving different problems. OpenCable enables third-party STBs; Passage allows the cable operator to reduce their costs by adding a second, cheaper encryption scheme that can be used by new boxes.

  • Be carefull... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by onlyabill ( 591213 ) on Thursday December 05, 2002 @08:46AM (#4817797) Journal
    Just be carefull here... Remember that Sony is the same company that uses digital rights technology in their MP3 players.

    To quote from their site:

    Passage is efficient. With Passage Technology the customer experiences no degradation of existing services. A typical Passage system requires between 2-10% additional bandwidth* to deliver the same content and services including the new, secondary CA system. This means that Passage can be introduced in a system without changes to the existing channel line-up.

    *Utilization of bandwidth overhead is controlled by the MSO. Utilization of more bandwidth increases security levels.

    Is 'security levels' another word for digital rights management? I just have a hard time believing a company that goes through so much trouble to install DRM into their audio products would not do the same in the video market. Other posts have mentioned freedom to choose your own set-top box. That is not discussed on the Sony site. The freedom of choice is for the cable companies, not you or me. This could be good and it could reduce consumer costs but don't bank on it. It may just give the cable companies even more control over what you watch and how.
    • You are forgetting one little catch here..

      There are not too many MSO's in the US that have a DOCSIS DBDS system.. most (if not 99%) of them are DAVIC here in the US.. Sony does not produce a DAVIC box here because its main market is international (where DAVIC is the poor step child that no one wants.. and rightly so). So passage is a way for them to get their foot in the door with a recognizable consumer name so that when the change comes.. its "Hey, remember we made it easier for you to change"

      But of course, MSO's have a long history of sticking with main providers (Motorola/GI, SA, even "shudder" PACE, and Pioneer)

    • Re:Be carefull... (Score:3, Informative)

      by sarabob ( 544622 )
      No.

      The way the CA system is proposed to work is to leave the majority of the packets in an MPEG stream unencrypted, but to encrypt "critical" ones. Frame headers, Slice headers etc, I guess. That way you can have the majority (99%) of the video stream in the clear, but the video is still unwatchable. To this, the cable operator takes *two* copies of the critical blocks, and encrypts them with the two different CA keys. The STB can decrypt either of the two sets of critical blocks to get the original, complete stream back.

      The more bandwidth you allocate to the Passage system, the more blocks can be counted as "critical" and the better the security. It's not a DRM thing.
    • "CA" in this sense is the "no watching HBO if you didn't pay for it" system. I'd assume for this box to work, it has to connect with the Sony TVs on the market today, which all use standard input/outputs that you could hook to a computer if you wanted to.
    • Cable is already full of DRM, only they call it conditional access (CA). I don't think Sony can make it any worse.

  • TiVo owners say "yayy" (Score:3, Interesting)

    by jspayne ( 98716 ) <jeff&paynesplace,com> on Thursday December 05, 2002 @08:56AM (#4817836) Homepage
    Don't forget now that Sony is a major licnesor of TiVo software...can you say TiVo in a cable box? I knew you could...

    Jeff

    • They also produced UltimateTV boxes and I've read that they just made a licensing deal with the Moxi people. So there's no guarantee that they'll use Tivo software. (But it wouldn't be a bad idea)
  • But I really like the idea of a standard. Because what I really want is a TiVo I can plug my TW digital cable into without having the stupid converter in the middle.

    Yes, I know that TW has a PVR now, but it sucks goats. I like TiVo, and I want to be able to buy one box that can do everything I want. If this can help that happen, I'm all for it.

    Of course, I'm under no delusions, and will be suspicious of anything that the cable companies do that look like it's going to benefit me, since customers are not their #1 priority...

  • Well... (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    "but how will current SetTopBox monopolies take the news?"

    By exploiting the DMCA and decrying Passage as a copyright circumvention device, of course.
  • One must look at this in terms of the bigger picture (no pun intended). Some are saying that Sony is going up against the big boys, well no, the FCC has mandated that cable systems get the collective act together and enable consumers to purchase their own STB's retail and be able to use them on any cable system (The Telecommunications Act of '96). I believe they have until 2006 to make this happen. This is similar to the DOCSIS standard for cable modems.
  • We alreay have "legacy" digital cable networks?
    Most people I know still haven't switched to digital.

  • Sorry this is SONY we're talking about (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    SONY is very, very prorietary, owns signifcant music and video properties, and is very Digital Wrongs Management(TM) oriented. IF you do get a selection of devices, they'll all use memory sticks for RAM, require a Clio for use as a remote control, and every music and viedo device will be locked down under RIAA and MPAA approved techniques. No thanks.

  • Hmmm... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by dasmegabyte ( 267018 ) <das@OHNOWHATSTHISdasmegabyte.org> on Thursday December 05, 2002 @10:46AM (#4818476) Homepage Journal
    I think General Instruments, Scientific Atlanta, Toshiba, Telstra and the half dozen other set top box developers might be a little surprised that they are "monopolies." They might wonder why the face such stiff competition every time a cable agency adopts a new technology.

    Of course, if you're talking about a local monopoly you may be misunderstanding the problem. You rent a box from your cable provider but they don't make much out of the deal. A modern digital box might be about $100 on the open market vs the $30 your telco pays when buying in bulk, plus the cost of remotes, maintenance and so forth. The new DVR boxes are even more expensive. And your average cable co charges less than $5 to rent the box. Around here, Time Warner is considering charging $15 per month for a 30 gig DVR box, which is only $5 over what Tivo costs per month. And if you want a new box...well, just break the one you've got :).

    I remember when TW brought out the first box with an on-screen guide. I was totally impressed -- they were selling on screen guide services at $5 per month and here TW was offering it for free with the normal addressable units. When they brought out the first boxes with digital audio out, there was no additional charge -- just ask for one. To this day you have a choice of optical or coax when ordering a new box. They also have a number of different remotes.

    Choice seems like a good idea, but cable companies are in the business of getting you to pay monthly. They find little ways to make this affordable, no matter how much you think they're fleecing you. And covering the huge up front cost on boxes with that small rental fee is one of them. That's why AOLTW's cable division reports a nice profit every quarter while AOL bleeds like a stuck pig.
    • The problem is that the cable company chooses what kind of box you will get, and as you pointed out their incentive is to give you the cheapest box. Want a better cable box? Sorry. Passage and OpenCable are trying to solve this problem, so you can buy a fancy Sony cable box if that's what you want.
      • Acutally, no. Their incentive is to get you to pay for a box -- you still don't really need one except for addressable channels. I only have one TV at home with a box on it; the rest use the cable ready features.

        Would you pay 4 dollars per month to rent a box if it sucked and did the same thing your TV does already? A lot of people didn't...which is why they started making better and better boxes. When onscreen guide came out, I found it drastically enhanced the experience so I paid for it. The new DVR boxes are going to be another killer app for cable because they do things you can't do with VOD or standard DVR...things like record two pay or PPV stations at once, recording the digital stream directly rather than reencoding it (fewer artifacts that way), AC3 support and P&P over a single line (with a multituner chip, one of the coolest things I've ever seen). If you can get all these things for $15 per month, or pay hundreds to get the box and THEN pay $10 a month for the privilege of using the service, which would you do?

        Since your rental fees offset the cost, the whole "cheaper box" thing should be a matter of volume, not features. And while some people in the industry will try and get the cheapest boxes they can, it's really not in their best interests. Cable exists without the mandatory contracts most cellular companies have, so they can't get away with cheap equipment. Don't like the DVR's quality? Return it and don't rent it next month. They NEED to keep you...they'll do it by providing excellent product or they'll fail.

        BTW, I know this because my father's the one who decides which box his division goes with. I've been privy to some of the politics of box pricing, and invariably when they go with a box solely on price it bites them in the ass. Cable can be a very shrewd industry and I curse those anti-nepotism laws keeping me in this shady software biz...
  • Maybe this will help in the Firewire v. DVI realm. I would prefer to have HAVi [havi.org] enabled Firewire I/O on all of my components, and I'm guessing the big cable companies will want DVI since the big studios are pushing it. I'd love to be able to replace my DVI-based TimeWarner box with a HAVi enabled component.
  • my cable modem was free! no monthly rental fee! free lifetime replacement if it breaks! regularly achieve 500-600 KB/s (i live in CT, USA)! no limits on amount downloaded per month (aside from capability of hardware)! has gone down only once in past 3 months (all cable service was down for a few hrs)!

    w00t w00t!!

    Cablevision's [optimumonline.com] Optimum Online.

  • Some explanations (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward

    I work in the Digital TV / Set-Top-Box marketplace, and all I can say is that very few people really understand all the jargon being used here. Certainly the result of a combination of specialized and complex technology with marketing gone mad :-)

    I'll try to explain it in simpler terms though, and I hope this will help everyone here understand what Passage really is, and why it's not so hot for the consumer. Imagine that you decide to broadcast a new TV channel when all you've got is a *big* pile of money; i.e. you have no previous experience or contacts in the field, you do not own cables, satellites, or anything of the sort. You can become an "operator" if you find the following items:

    • you'll send digital signals, which means that your viewers will need a special set-top-box (named "STB" for short) to descramble your signal and view it on their TV.

    • if your channel is not free, the STB will need some sort of "card reader" to identify each subscriber and control which programs they're allowed to watch. This is called "conditional access", or "CA" for short

    • a STB "recognizes" your signal from all those that it receives from the cable or satellite through a unique ID. You'll need to reserve one or more of such IDs, as well as bandwith, to your carriers (i.e. cable or satellite operators)

    • you need to produce and send your signal to your carrier. The signal contains video, as well as other kind of data, like the encrypted list of valid subscribers along with their individual rights, that you'll periodically insert in the stream, or the list of programs to come this week

      This is done with specialized hardware (e.g. MPEG compressors, multiplexers), as well as specialized software written to drive everything. All of this costs a *lot* of money, and is called the "head-end".

    Several companies on the market are able to provide you with "turn-key" solutions, which include everything from deals with STB manufacturers (like Pace, Philips, Sony, Thomson Multimedia, etc...) to TV production studios. All you have to do is pay some cash, and they'll choose everything for you and make all critical technical choices.

    Now, consider the following:

    • there are several competing CA technologies on the market today. They differ on the way they scramble the video signal and subscriber access rights, and much more importantly, on the way they encrypt and protect user identification on each "access card".

      each CA technology specifies a card reader technology, a card manufacturing technology, a digital file format to store the access rights, and specialized software to encode your subscribers list, which generally comes straight from a big database (like an Oracle one). This means that changing your CA technology is not possible unless you change all of your STBs and your costly head-end. This is by no means trivial.

    • A typical STB has about 60 distinct devices to control, and its software is a very complex thing that must be able to drive everything, while controlling video and running application, like the electronic program guide, or even Java applets in certain cases.

      This software is generally not written by the STB manufacturer, but by a specialized company, like NDS, OpenTV, Canal+ Technologies, etc... In theory, these companies must be able to adapt their software to various CA technologies. In practice, they all implement a single CA technology that they either designed themselves or licensed from another party. These companies also develop specialized head-ends that only work with their technologies.

    • the format of the data contained in your signal is not standardized yet. It is thus only determined by your head-end and STB software. The only thing that these various formats share is the fact that they encode all video using an MPEG-2 codec, all other data varies tremendously except that they're mostly embedded in an MPEG transport stream. Some experiments with MPEG-4 video codecs are currently being performed, by the way...

    All this means that operators cannot easily change the technology they're using to broadcast once they've selected one. There is no monopoly since several competing technologies exist for both CA and STB/Head-end software, provided by distinct companies. However, there is a lock-in once you've signed one of these "solutions".

    It's really diffcult to know what "Passage" really is from the Sony brochure. It seems clear that it incorporates a migration tool that can be used by operators to smoothly switch to "better" technology without changing everything immediately. However, what these "best technologies" are is left unexplained. It may be that the tool is flexible enough to adapt to anything new, but I would doubt it. I rather supposed that it will only be used to switch to Sony-approved STB+Head-End software :-)

    As for consumers, this will change absolutely nothing since they will not be able to choose their STB, except from the models "approved" by their TV operator(s).

  • I'm just about to ditch AT&T Digital Cable, because their default box where I live has had its S-Video and digital audio connectors removed. Probably saved them $10 per unit. I recently begged them to let me either rent or buy a full version of the same model box from them. When I mentioned the 1996 law which says customers have a choice in 3rd-party set top boxes, I received their response: --- We are in the early stages of Beta testing converters with S-video and Dolby digital 5.1 outputs in select regions for the eventual launch throughout our enterprise. We do not yet have a time table for when these will be available for lease in your area. According to the information provided at the FCC's website, http://ftp.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Cable/Orders/1998/fcc98 116.pdf [fcc.gov], subscribers have the right to attach any compatible navigation device to a multichannel video programming system as long as the equipment does not provide the unauthorized reception of services. If you wish to register a converter you have purchased with us, please contact our Cable Television Customer Care Group at 1-888-633-4266 for assistance. You are allowed to purchase your own converter, we will not support it, nor guarantee that it will receive all the channels that you subscribe to. Also there have been cases of people buying converters on line that are stolen from other regions, it is our policy to report any such incidents, so choose whom you purchase your converter from wisely. If you have any future questions or problems, please feel free to email us again or contact our Technical Support line for further assistance. We are here 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. When replying to this address, please include this message as well as all previous correspondence regarding this issue.
  • This is mostly Sony helping themselves (brilliantly) what is most likely happening here is that Sony is suddenly making a much belated entry into a field dominated by Scientific Atlantic and Motorola. The issue they are running into is that the MSO's and cable operaters are working on equipment that links the head-end to a particular set of set-top-boxes.

    This technology allows cable operators to use the Sony boxes on systems that previously may have only allowed Motorola boxes.

    Personally the Sony/Digeo Moxi box may be the coolest thing around.
  • In 1979, cable hit homes. We turned our TV to channel 3, hooked up the box and watched with decent reception. Cool. And I could still play my Atari.

    Channel's 2-13 came in direct, pay channels were scrambled, 14-upper needed the STB (tv's now tune the upper cable channels just fine).

    In the 80's, we got VCRs. These played tapes but they also tuned channels so they could record. We set them to channel 3 and hoped that we remembered to set the STB to the right channel before the show we wanted started.
    Or we went direct and couldn't record the pay or high channels.
    Or we got A/B switches and splitters and Dad got a headache every time he had to record something.

    TVs now directly access all the channels. But we need a whole STB at some cost to tune the pay channels or, in some places, ALL the channels to decrypt them. So my STB goes into my VCR (which has an IR mouse for the STB) which goes into my TV. I still have A/B switches. (e.g. it still causes headaches).

    My new TV is just a monitor. No tuner. It's HD in fact.
    It's hooked up to my (old) VCR for tuning. Which is attached to an STB to decrypt some channels.

    Remarkably, the STB has never really gotten smaller. I *have* the one from 1979. It had push buttons for each channel, but it's the same size. They both make like room heaters. Didn't IC's make things smaller?

    Proposal
    DUMP THE STB NOTION
    It's out of date. It's nearly 30 years old. It's in the way.

    In each Tuner (VCR, TV, Tivo), put a card. perhaps something that looks like a PCCARD (pcmcia), perhaps not.

    When the card is in the Tuner, perhaps the tuner will divert the (tuned) video feed THROUGH the card with info about the channel on a data feed.

    The card will do the descrambling it might need or (better) provide information/software to descramble to the tuner (the tuner might have a generic DSP).

    Volume costs? About $10 tops. No case, no power supply. here's the extra:
    I have a high quality tuner. I get to use it.
    They start pushing HD down the pipe, they don't need to replace every STB. It's software. Upgrades are easier.

    Extra Credit:
    Can we discuss that, with the rate increases for cable since the comcast/ATT merger that wouldn't raise rates, that perhaps Congress could mandate HD over cable by, hmmm, 2006?
    How about getting the freaking fiber into the house. I'm tired of ground loops and worrying about lightning down the street taking out my VCR. I look forward to affording an HD tuner that feeds my new TV via firewire.

  • An engineer, a physicist and a mathematician find themselves in an
    anecdote, indeed an anecdote quite similar to many that you have no doubt
    already heard. After some observations and rough calculations the
    engineer realizes the situation and starts laughing. A few minutes later
    the physicist understands too and chuckles to himself happily as he now
    has enough experimental evidence to publish a paper. This leaves the
    mathematician somewhat perplexed, as he had observed right away that he
    was the subject of an anecdote, and deduced quite rapidly the presence of
    humour from similar anecdotes, but considers this anecdote to be too
    trivial a corollary to be significant, let alone funny.

    - this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...

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