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Music Media

Gateway to Ship PCs with Pre-Installed DRM Music Files 334

Posted by michael from the yay-restricted-music-everyone-cheer dept.
Captain Chad writes "News.com has an article about Gateway's decision to bundle Pressplay's music service with its PCs. Of interest is the fact that 2000 popular songs will come pre-installed, helping reduce download time for those of us with modems." I wonder how much Pressplay is paying for this privilege. All sorts of interesting legal wrinkles here: you're buying a computer which contains data that you cannot legally access.
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Gateway to Ship PCs with Pre-Installed DRM Music Files More

Gateway to Ship PCs with Pre-Installed DRM Music Files

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  • for those too lazy to load the article (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 06, 2002 @11:17AM (#4827049)
    Gateway spins Pressplay service on PCs

    By Reuters
    December 5, 2002, 10:11 PM PT

    Computer maker Gateway on Friday announced a deal with online music provider Pressplay to load its PCs with 2,000 songs from music stars such as Eminem, Bruce Springsteen, the Dixie Chicks and Frank Sinatra.

    The deal with Pressplay, a joint venture between Vivendi Universal and Sony, capped a turbulent week for Gateway, which saw its stock fall 17 percent Thursday after the troubled PC maker warned that fourth-quarter revenue might not measure up to expectations.

    The news came after three consecutive quarters of losses at the Poway, Calif.-based computer maker, which has suffered from weak demand and stiff competition from rivals such as Dell Computer.

    Under the Pressplay deal, Gateway consumers can access the Pressplay service and features in several ways, including a 90-day free subscription to the service that contains 2,000 songs preloaded and available for streaming and downloading.

    By loading it on a computer, consumers, especially those using dial-up connections, will save weeks of downloading time, said Michael Bebel, chief executive officer of Pressplay.

    Other Pressplay plan options will also be available, some to be sold separately in hard-drive packages.

    Gateway signed another deal with Pressplay rival Listen.com's Rhapsody a few weeks ago, marking the first distribution pact between a computer maker and one of a current crop of subscription services, trying to lure customers away from unauthorized song-swap services that have emerged in the wake of now-idled Napster.

    Under that deal, buyers of Gateway desktop PCs will get a coupon for one free month of Rhapsody and a demonstration of the service on the PCs.

    "The Pressplay deal is significantly different because we're pioneering a way to deliver digital music on the hard drive," said Brad Shaw, a senior vice president for Gateway.

    Shaw said the deal would have no impact on the company's fourth-quarter forecast announced earlier this week.

    After the free trials, consumers can get the Pressplay service, which provides more than 200,000 songs and additional features, with pricing options starting from $9.95 a month.

    "We're now making it possible for people without a broadband Internet connection to get in on the fun of digital music by delivering it to them in a whole new way," said Ted Waitt, Gateway chairman and chief executive in a statement, adding those with broadband will enjoy it even more.

    Gateway earlier this year sparked the ire of the music industry by running TV ads that showed Waitt and a cow--the company's mascot--singing along to a homemade CD, directing viewers to a Web site that encouraged them to "protect their digital music rights."

    The ad was construed by the recording industry as an invitation to music fans to join in the fight against Hollywood as technology and media companies locked horns over digital copies of entertainment.

    Entertainment companies, burned by piracy and file-sharing services like Napster, have been seeking more control over digital copies of movies, music and TV shows, while tech companies are putting out even more products that encourage customers to "rip" and "burn" entertainment software.

    Gateway executives this week said they have always supported legal copying.

    Waitt said the Pressplay deal was a great example of the technology and recording industries working together to drive innovation and serve demand for legitimate digital music.

    Gateway plans to promote with television, Web, catalog and e-mail marketing.
    • I do find it interesting that computer makers are making it easier to rip and burn, while supplying pressplay et al inside it. This bothers me a bit. There has to be something backroom-ish going on. I agree all things equal, it may make the college freshman grab one, but other than that I see no special reason for it. So what are they getting out of it? Advertising, sure, but whatabout pressplay logging? You think they are sharing their logs with Gateway so they can determine what songs to put on the next generation of PC's? Maybe Gateway just wants to see how much their computers are actually used for the digital music they push so much in their adverts. Either way, I don't like multi company bundling. It just smacks of small print consumer stick-it-to-em EULA's.

    • Eminem? Dixie Chicks? (Score:5, Funny)

      by Bonker ( 243350 ) on Friday December 06, 2002 @11:36AM (#4827234)
      It comes preloaded with the Eminem and Dixie Chicks?

      c:\
      c:\deltree \mypreloadedmusic-DRM

      Are you sure you want to delete the directory \mypreloadedmusic-DRM and all subdirectories? [Y/N]

      Youbetcherass

      172 File(s) deleted.

      c:\
      • You do realize that this is an optional component right? You don't have to get it with preloaded music, in fact you have to specify that you want it and you pay for it. So, why would you pay for it, then nuke it?
      • Today you're more likely to get these messages:

        C:\mypreloadedmusic-DRM is a system directory, and cannot be deleted.
        or
        Unknown command "deltree"

  • Gateway... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by airrage ( 514164 )
    Don't worry the gateway will soon break and the crisis will soon be over...

    • Re:Gateway... (Score:3, Funny)

      by bstadil ( 7110 )
      I liked Gateway until they ditched AMD. Now with DRM included they should replace the Cow with Milquetoast as a logo.
    • Don't forget. Vivendi is also doing bad. They're going to break next. I think the service will have to change name do PressStop instead of PressPlay. :)
    • Apple used to include free MP3s with some of its models so people could use them with iMovie and iTunes. Sure the music was mostly instrumental or public domain, but at least it was free and didn't require an Internet connection to unlock.

  • technicality (Score:5, Interesting)

    by timothy_m_smith ( 222047 ) on Friday December 06, 2002 @11:18AM (#4827063)
    The poster says that the computer contains data which you cannot legally access. I would actually interpret that you can access it, you just cannot legally try to go around the protection mechanism that pressplay has put on it.
    • ...The way I interpret it, you cannot legally access the same data. Pressplay has put data on the drive that you probably would get from the 'net, so it's saving you time (and maybe bandwidth charges, depending on your ISP). If you were to get it from the 'net, it would be illegal (using p2p).

      The way I interpret it (IANAL), they've broken the law.

      • Re:No.... (Score:5, Informative)

        by b0r1s ( 170449 ) on Friday December 06, 2002 @12:14PM (#4827556) Homepage
        Your interpretation is wrong.

        Under the Pressplay deal, Gateway consumers can access the Pressplay service and features in several ways, including a 90-day free subscription to the service that contains 2,000 songs preloaded and available for streaming and downloading. .

        You get 90 days free when you purchase the system, and in those 90 days you'll be able to access any song PressPlay offers (access = listen to, not burn). The 2,000 on the drive are there to save you time.
        • Thank you. Loading the 2000 songs is a smart move on Pressplay's part, for the time/money issues I mentioned.

          I'd mod you up if I could, (and me down), but I can't, so I won't.

          It's a good thing IANAL - I'd suck!

    • Re:technicality (Score:2, Insightful)

      by k3v0 ( 592611 )
      i wonder if you have to sign a EULA just to purchase the computer
      • i wonder if you have to sign a EULA just to purchase the computer

        Probably not, but you do already have to agree to 3 or 4 before you can actually start using WinXP (one of which I'm sure includes DRM statements)

  • well I am sure... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by mschoolbus ( 627182 ) <travisriley@@@gmail...com> on Friday December 06, 2002 @11:18AM (#4827071)
    I am quite sure that there will, eventually be a very easy workaround for this. Don't companies realize that no matter what they do, somebody will crack it?

    I wonder if and when music will actually get to this point where everyone buys music online? Personally I like to own the CD to have the original CD art...

    • Re:well I am sure... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 06, 2002 @11:34AM (#4827211)
      Don't companies realize that no matter what they do, somebody will crack it?

      Why do you think the DMCA exists?
      "sure, we know some smart bastard will crack it, but when he does we'll nail his ass to the wall."

  • This is fine... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Lotek ( 29809 ) <Vitriolic@NOSpaM.gmail.com> on Friday December 06, 2002 @11:19AM (#4827078)
    So long as I can still delete the damn things.

  • Interesting question (Score:4, Interesting)

    by doug_wyatt ( 532721 ) on Friday December 06, 2002 @11:20AM (#4827083)
    Since they gave you the content, when you break the DRM for the purpose of listening to it, you're not breaking it for the purpose of copying it (necessarily). They gave you the copy on purpose...so it'd seem that tools designed to give you access to content that was given to you by the copyright owners might not be covered by the same DMCA.

  • you can use the songs in spite of editor comment (Score:4, Insightful)

    by deft ( 253558 ) on Friday December 06, 2002 @11:20AM (#4827089) Homepage
    " including a 90-day free subscription to the service that contains 2,000 songs preloaded and available for streaming and downloading."

    editor should have read the article.

    also, my cable box comes with the ability to recieve all of the channels too, whats the legal implication there?

    my car comes with the ability to do 150mph, but the chips lets me go to 120... whats the legal wrinkle there?
    • >also, my cable box comes with the ability to recieve all of the channels too, whats the legal implication there?

      The premium channels aren't pre-recorded on the box.

      >my car comes with the ability to do 150mph, but the chips lets me go to 120... whats the legal wrinkle there?

      The car company doesn't want to see you dead, perhaps?
    • my cable box comes with the ability to recieve all of the channels too, whats the legal implication there?

      Its illegal to decrypt them without permission. Doesn't mean that the law is right. I personally agree that the law makes sense, but people are free to disagree with me and try to convinve their elected representatives to change this law.

      But this is just because of percieved cost to them. It costs them money to send me signals. In the case of data that's already on my hard disk, it doesn't cost any more to supply decrypted data than it does to supply encrypted data, yet they want to charge me the full cost of the media just to decrypt it for me.
    • my cable box comes with the ability to recieve all of the channels too, whats the legal implication there?
      I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. Contemporary analog and digital cable boxes will refuse to tune to channels you aren't paying for. Modified boxes will, but making such modifications is a violation of federal law. A cable-ready TV or VCR will tune to any analog channel, but the cable company will scramble any premium analog content you might receive that way and adding your own analog descrambling circuit is a violation of federal law. If your point is that cable is a precedent for delivering content to users that they are not allowed to access (without paying), you're absolutely right. If your point is something else, I missed it.
    • The cable companies did so much legal junk in the past (blatent paying off of senators... judges, congressmen..) that you really shouldn't use it for anything legal. Basically Cable companies got a bunch of junk put on Sattilte tv access, so regular sattilite sucks, and nobody uses it.

      About your car? Your car doesn't falsely advertise that it's capable of going 150... it's just a fact that can be judged by logic. What? you don't think Gateway will make this into a huge scam? 2000 FREEEEEEE Songs!!!!

  • All the "popular" songs right? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Hadean ( 32319 ) <`hadean.dragon+s ... `at' `gmail.com'> on Friday December 06, 2002 @11:21AM (#4827099)
    "After the free trials, consumers can get the Pressplay service, which provides more than 200,000 songs and additional features, with pricing options starting from $9.95 a month. "

    So basically, it's a big ad? Nothing new here.. And we all know that the files will be cracked extremely quickly (of course, some geek will have to fess up and admit to buying one of these!). No matter, they'll all be songs I wouldn't want anyway - the "pop"ular stuff that the radio plays day in and day out, no doubt.

    In general, it's a good idea, but if you think about it: 5 megs on average per file (guess) x 2000 = 10,000 megs... That's a LOT of wasted space for something you're not supposed to be using until you pay for! So, yeah, I'm paying extra to waste space. Nice.
  • If Gateway didn't do this, we'd all be eating talking cow steaks in a week. Those cruel, vicious monsters.

  • Oh great.... (Score:5, Funny)

    by jhines0042 ( 184217 ) on Friday December 06, 2002 @11:21AM (#4827104) Journal
    ....As if the free AOL icons on the screen weren't enough... now is the paperclip going to pop up and say "You haven't been force fed pop music lately. Would you like me to play something by Brittney Spears?"

    Music = marketing and product all in one. The more you listen to music the more you either like it or hate it. If you like it you'll buy more, if you hate it you'll suffer through it or turn it off.

    Now the music companies are going to put their marketing materials (free?? music) on the computers to further entrench themselves.

  • between two fats guys in a buffet line... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Em Emalb ( 452530 ) <ememalb@gm a i l . com> on Friday December 06, 2002 @11:22AM (#4827114) Homepage Journal
    "Entertainment companies, burned by piracy and file-sharing services like Napster, have been seeking more control over digital copies of movies, music and TV shows, while tech companies are putting out even more products that encourage customers to "rip" and "burn" entertainment software."

    On the one hand, we got tech companies saying burn your music. Enjoy it, play it, sleep with it, whatever. On the other hand, we got the RIAA saying: HEY! Wait! You can't do that. You need to pay me for that.

    In the middle is the customer going you know what? Screw you both. Make music. If I like it, I'll buy it. (--In most cases) Hey, PC makers, you make pcs. Don't worry about what I do with it, it ain't your concern.

  • All good .. until DRM is broken ... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by SuperDuG ( 134989 ) <<kt.celce> <ta> <eb>> on Friday December 06, 2002 @11:22AM (#4827119) Homepage Journal
    then you get 2000 songs with your gateway. Lets see ... average 15 songs a cd .... 2000 / 15 = 133 ... times $17.00 for the average CD ... $2267.00 free !!! ... and it's not your fault you did BUY the computer and that just came with your computer. Same thing goes for when you buy a box from an auction, to find it's full of gold, to the victor go the spoils.
    • Same thing goes for when you buy a box from an auction, to find it's full of gold, to the victor go the spoils.

      Full of gold? It sounds like this music will consist of primarily Eminem, Britney Spears, Backstreet Boys, and whatever else is at the top of the charts (after all, they want to convenience the most people, so they'll include what they expect to be the most popular downloads). I wouldn't call any of that gold.

      Maybe more like getting a box that's full of corroded old copper pennies ... they might be worth something to a collector, but aren't particularly attractive or valuable on their own.
    • then you get 2000 songs with your gateway. Lets see ... average 15 songs a cd .... 2000 / 15 = 133 ... times $17.00 for the average CD ... $2267.00 free !!!

      Actually, it's just the popular songs, so it would be more like ... average 2 popular songs per cd = 1000 CDs ... times $17 ... $17,000 free.

      Assuming of course, you normally buy CDs to get just the popular songs and the rest are crap.
  • All sorts of interesting legal wrinkles here: you're buying a computer which contains data that you cannot legally access.

    That's not new. I've been other examples of software that comes pre-installed but "locked" where you need a key that you can get by calling the company and paying more money. I seem to remember Adobe having some fonts like that pre-installed at some point, and I definitely recall special-purpose PC's coming with application software pre-installed but disabled until you bought an access key...

    I'm not sure what kinds of "legal wrinkles" might apply, but I do know this is not the first time it's been done.

  • what the hell? (Score:3, Funny)

    by mschoolbus ( 627182 ) <travisriley@@@gmail...com> on Friday December 06, 2002 @11:23AM (#4827123)
    I just bought this damn computer and I have no more disk space!! Oh yeah, i have 2000 songs on here that I can't listen to...
  • IS this legal, even though noone can legally acces them? I didnt want them, i didnt pay for them.

  • I bet... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by DarkDust ( 239124 )
    this will spur some people to try their best to hack this DRM system. After all, if you already have 2000 songs on your HDD you might want to access them, if just for the sport aspect ;-)

  • access (Score:3, Informative)

    by selderrr ( 523988 ) on Friday December 06, 2002 @11:24AM (#4827140) Journal
    you're buying a computer which contains data that you cannot legally access

    So ? If I recall correctly, mainframes in the old days used to ship with HARDWARE that you couldn't access legally. The machine came preshipped with X amount of RAM, which was enabled by simply flipping a switch after you payed for it. Noone ever complained, even though RAM prices those days were somewhere in the region of what we pay now for an average house.
    • > If I recall correctly, mainframes in the old days used to ship with HARDWARE that you couldn't access legally.

      This is still the case. The processor block on an IBM S390 has, I think, 12 CPU chips on the silicon. You pay for as many as you want to use ... if one goes bad it's disabled and you start to use fresh silicon without needing to replace the unit.

      • Re:access (Score:3, Informative)

        by Chanc_Gorkon ( 94133 )
        Not entirely true. If this was, we'd have to had flip a switch to double our processor like we just did. No we BOUGHT a part (mainframe CPU is a HUGE (small compared to past, huge compared to average PCI card) card that sldies right in. After a little configuration type stuff to do on the hardware management console, you start to IML and you have the cpu's installed, but still configged like it was the old one. You have to re config VM to divvy up the extra CPU to the other virtual machines. Otherwise the new CPU runs like the OLD one. Most shops will run for a week or so on the new proc running like it was the old proc before upping the amount of the proc is available to each VM guest. Most shops use all of the CPU's installed on the card and not just part of it. Also, it's no longer called the s/390, it's called the zSeries (with the pSeries being RS/6000 machines and the iSeries the AS/400 and the xSeries for the Intel based Netfinity servers.).

  • So this is how it works: (Score:5, Insightful)

    by DeadSea ( 69598 ) on Friday December 06, 2002 @11:26AM (#4827151) Homepage Journal
    1. You buy a computer.
    2. It has an OS and software installed.
    3. It also has a folder called "music".
    4. You browse into that folder and you see see songs like "Britney's Latest.drm".
    5. You say, "Boy I'd like to hear that!", so you open it.
    6. They player comes up and says "You don't own this yet, I can't play it, would you like to buy it?"
    7. Being cheap you open another player and try to play the file but you can't because the file is encrypted.
    8. Frustrated, you go back and buy it.
    9. The music player sends your payment info and downloads a decryption key.
    10. The music now plays, but only on that machine with that player.
    11. You caputer the digital out of your sound card, rip the song to mp3, send it to your portable, and put it on the internet.

    • Secure Audio Path (Score:5, Informative)

      by yerricde ( 125198 ) on Friday December 06, 2002 @11:33AM (#4827206) Homepage Journal

      You caputer the digital out of your sound card

      Make that "analog out". Windows ME and Windows XP operating systems have a Secure Audio Path [pineight.com] that disables digital outputs and unsigned drivers when playing restrictions-managed audio files.

    • > 4. You browse into that folder and you see see songs like "Britney's Latest.drm".
      > 5. You say, "Boy I'd like to hear that!", so you open it.
      > 6. They player comes up and says "You don't own this yet, I can't play it, would you like to buy it?"

      7. You say "screw it", delete the file, fire up your favorite P2P application, download it in 30 seconds, and become yet another person sharing Britney's Latest.

      No thanks, I'll just skip to #7.

    • Re:So this is how it works: (Score:4, Informative)

      by SlightlyMadman ( 161529 ) <slightlymadman@@@slightlymad...net> on Friday December 06, 2002 @11:59AM (#4827427) Homepage
      Small problem with that. These people are not idiots. They know that people will do things like that, or find some other way of cracking the encryption and extracting the data. That's why these mp3s are watermarked. As soon as they see certain songs show up on a p2p sharing app, they grab them, examine the watermark, and trace it back to the credit card that purchased the computer.

      Unless you can show that your credit card was stolen, you're getting sued.
    • That's what they want! If you start accepting the DRM and use your hardware to pirate the music. Then DRM will have the argument that "the only thing allowing piracy is compromisable hardware". Then everyone will switch to "trusted" hardware, pending the support of the media industry, the software monopoly industry and the government-for-sale industry.


    • For the majority of people entries from 10 and onwards will be something like :

      10.0 The music now plays, but only on that machine with that player.
      10.1 The music now plays, but only on that machine with that player.
      10.2 The music now plays, but only on that machine with that player.
      11. The music doesn't play any more, you need to pay more ..

  • wait a minute (Score:2, Insightful)

    by nizcolas ( 597301 )
    "The Pressplay deal is significantly different because we're pioneering a way to deliver digital music on the hard drive," said Brad Shaw, a senior vice president for Gateway.

    I sort of remember something. A way I used to get digital content onto my machine...nap something or other...man that seems familiar.

    Honestly, who do these people think they're fooling. Look at the selection of music, they're obviously targeting the audience most utilizing current p2p apps. Do you think most high school and college kids are going to give up their napster/kazaa/audio galaxy/etc for something they have to pay for?

  • Heh. (Score:4, Funny)

    by zapfie ( 560589 ) on Friday December 06, 2002 @11:30AM (#4827179)

    Gateway computer, preloaded with songs: $999

    Connection to the Internet: $19.95/mo.

    Knowing it's only going to take a couple minutes to crack 20,000 songs wide open: Priceless
    • From I can tell, it looks like you don't get to play the music until you sign up for a 90-day "free" trial thingie. That means that you have to connect to something else before you can play the music. That means that there might be a key (either a key for the whole collection, or more likely, a key per song) transmitted at that time. And that means that it is actually possible to do this fairly securely.

      What I mean is, there's no technical/implementation reason those files can't be encrypted with real, serious crypto, with a key that is is not stored on the computer at the time it ships. If they did this right, then it's going to take a hell of a lot longer than a "couple of minutes." (Remember how long it took distributed.net to crack a single RC5-64 message.)

      Of course, as soon as you "unlock" a file so that you can play it, the DRM will be crackable. But making the unit as it ships be secure, is quite feasible.

  • So what? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by rebrane ( 17961 ) on Friday December 06, 2002 @11:30AM (#4827182)
    So what? My computer already has tons of data I can't access without illegally reverse-engineering files. My server at work is chock full of e-mail that I can't access without (probably) violating my cow orkers' rights. One might argue that the layout of my CPU is data stored inside my computer, but I sure can't have access to that.

    • You are wrong (Score:2, Insightful)

      by MCMLXXVI ( 601095 )
      You can access any of that you want. You can't however sell, distribute, or give away what you access. I can take my computer, rip out the CPU and spend a year mapping the layout. I have done nothing illegal. If I sell it or publish it the internet then I have broken the law. You own what you own and unless you SIGNED a waiver to say you were not going to do this you are free to do what you want with YOUR stuff.

  • And then there's the Apple approach... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 06, 2002 @11:31AM (#4827192)
    License more than 200 songs from mainstream and niche artists, encode them to 160Kbps MP3s, and bundle them on new i-Systems.

    No DRM. No free trial. Just free music.

    Mix. Burn. Repeat.

    2000 "popular" DRMed songs you can listen to for 90 days, or about 300 encompassing all genres of music that you can listen to forever? Hmm.
    • That's why Apple doesn't offer a machine -- even an old CRT iMac -- for less than $900. You don't think that music is really *free*, do you? Trust me, you're paying for it, whether you want to or not.
  • I knew you could boys and girls. Competition from Dell, and yes even HP and Compaq is just too much for Gateway. Despite lowering prices to the point where they operate in the red, they just can't seem to keep up.

    It's too bad really, I think they were a good company who just had to make too many compromises.

  • The top songs (Score:3, Insightful)

    by I_am_Rambi ( 536614 ) on Friday December 06, 2002 @11:34AM (#4827210) Homepage
    Personally, I don't like alot of the mainstream music that is out today. So if I buy a *cough* gateway *cough* why would I want these music files? The top 2000 hits....Ummmmm I would rather not have that on my computer.

    Can I rather have the top 2000 punches?

  • Which songs? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by xchino ( 591175 ) on Friday December 06, 2002 @11:36AM (#4827231)
    Is there a list of the songs that come with it? Is it grouped by genre? There's alot of different tastes out there and I can easily see several people buying this FOR the music (non-tech ppl of course), just to find out that it doesn't have single song they like. 2,000 songs @ ~4 megs a piece = 8,000MB, or 8Gigs sacraficed to an unusuable data format. 8gigs over a modem certianly isn't a laughable amount over a short time span, but how many 56K 80+GB warez sites have you seen? I can't justify the loss of space/Saved bandwidth ratio especially when I won't want most of the music...
    I think it would have been a better decision to slap 8Gigs of DRM'd Porn on the drive..

  • Does this mean we're adding a PressPlay tax ... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by aborchers ( 471342 ) on Friday December 06, 2002 @11:39AM (#4827256) Homepage Journal
    ... to the Microsoft Tax when we buy a machine loaded with cruft we have no intention of using?

  • So...we're now buying computers that have *OUR* hard drive space taken up by useless software that doesn't below to us? A:\format C:\ www.kazaalite.com... Pfft, if I want to have software on my computer that doesn't belong to me, I may as well have it be software of my choice, that I can actually use!

  • An easy way to dodge the license (Score:4, Interesting)

    by MCMLXXVI ( 601095 ) on Friday December 06, 2002 @11:41AM (#4827273)
    I would hook the boot HD up to a different computer, extract all the songs onto it and format the drive on the gateway afterwords. Never once did you boot thier install of the OS that has the license agreement. And since they "gave" you the songs on your computer you're free to do what you want with them. I.E. remove DRM and enjoy in OGG format.

  • I need a new machine. (Score:5, Funny)

    by TheFlu ( 213162 ) on Friday December 06, 2002 @11:41AM (#4827274) Homepage
    Is there an option available to pre-load my machine with porn instead?
  • The concept of 'having data that you cannot legally access' has been around for ages already: Adobe Type-On-Call (Not sold anymore, as far as I can tell.)

    This was a CD full of fonts - Adobe's entire font library, in fact - where you could not access particular fonts or font collections without sending Adobe a bunch of money first. They'd give you a key to unlock those particular fonts.

    I'd been wanting to try and crack it open ever since I was 15 or so, but... looks like I'm not allowed to anymore :)

  • Old hat (Score:5, Interesting)

    by andy_geek ( 522404 ) on Friday December 06, 2002 @11:46AM (#4827317) Homepage
    "All sorts of interesting legal wrinkles here: you're buying a computer which contains data that you cannot legally access. "

    So what? I bought a name brand PC a few weeks ago that came with Quicken Deluxe on it, to be used only if I have bought the reg key.

    The real issue here is that this won't work: within two weeks of these bad boys hitting the street, there will be dozens of postings on how to circumvent Pressplay's reg/purchase code strategy and gain access to all of the music, just as I can go to any one of dozens of sites for hacks into getting my unregistered copy of Quicken to work. I wouldn't do this, of course: no no, not me....

    There's a metaphor here from Apocalypse Now: the Bridge at Do Long. Every day the Americans would rebuild the bridge, and every night the Vietnamese would blow it up. Each new tack by the RIAA and its DMCA cronies to secure rights in this fashion will be defeated, sometimes within minutes of hitting the street.

    This points to the need for them to dynamite their business model and think up something new: how many people actually pay for content? (And porn doesn't count. Besides, porn is largely stolen anyway!) The answer is none, zero, nada. AOL-TimeWarner's about to find this out the hard way. Gateway and Pressplay are making it easier than some to circumvent by the fact that the files are on your machine, and you can ostensibly do what you want to with them without them knowing. But even if you had to download them, you'll still be able to hack them.

  • Cow commerical? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Schnapple ( 262314 ) <tomkidd&gmail,com> on Friday December 06, 2002 @11:49AM (#4827345) Homepage
    Remember how Gateway ran that commercial that "respected your rights to download music" (or somesuch). I took that commercial to be a slap to the face of the RIAA - now they're the RIAA's lapdog? Or have I completely misread this?

  • Apple does it already... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by imag0 ( 605684 ) on Friday December 06, 2002 @11:50AM (#4827352) Homepage
    With my new dual USB iBook, on the default install, there's something like 600 megs of MP3's by various big name artists (can't remember them all, since I reloaded with my new 10.2 cd I forgot to back them up), spoken word stuff from Henry Rollins I remember, perhaps someone else can fill /. in on what's all on there. Pretty neat I think.

    Yep, they're 100% unencrypted, copy them anywhere MP3 files. They're installed when you do a full system restore. No DRM here. Not needed or wanted.

  • Recovery CD? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Hadean ( 32319 ) <`hadean.dragon+s ... `at' `gmail.com'> on Friday December 06, 2002 @11:53AM (#4827378)
    Gateway computers come with a recovery CD, don't they? (at least my friend's did). So what happens if something goes wrong and you lose your hard drive - since you paid to listen to those songs (through advertising, upped computer price, or through the 'free' trial), do you get them back? Do you have to redownload the 2000 songs you have 90 days free access to? I doubt they have a couple of DVDs of music in the box, ready to be reinstalled for you...

    I can see some poor suck^M^M^M^Muser calling the tech support people crying for her Britney! *ack, the horror*
    • Well, since the pre-downloaded music is offered as a convenience only, and an internet connection is required to use the services, it's perfectly reasonable to expect the user to contact customer service, and do whatever needs to be done to enable the music to be downloaded. Supposedly, they're fairly helpful about that kind of thing, at least for now (if the service fails or becomes very successful, expect that to change).

      Sure, it'd be a pain in the ass, but anyone signing up for a service with all those DRM hoops to jump through has got to be prepared for that.

  • Stainless Steel Balls. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Didion Sprague ( 615213 ) on Friday December 06, 2002 @11:54AM (#4827381)
    The end of DRM will the following: Microsoft, working in concert with the Big 5 record labels, will begin to deliver content in the form of stainless steel balls. Sort of like BBs, but bigger. They will insist that these steel balls are, in fact, music. "Believe us," they'll say, "we thought long and hard about this one." The steel balls will, however, confuse consumers. "I don't know," they'll say, "I can't hear anything." But the labels will insist that the steel balls work fine. "They're music," Hilary Rosen will say, "but they're copy protected." "It's foolproof," Jack Valenti will say, and then -- a few months later -- introduce his own version of the steel music balls: plastic video pyramids. Each pyramid will be about three inches high, black plastic, and weigh about three ounces. "Microsoft helped us with the protection algorithm," he'll announce. "In fact, they're so secure not even Microsoft's new operating system can play the video. But trust us, these videos look great." Confused consumers will be seen walking around with steel balls and plastic pyramids. "I don't know," they'll say, "I haven't seen anything yet, but I look forward to it." Another music lover will admit to liking the way the steel balls feel. "They're so smooth and lovely. Perfect." "The Register" will point out that the balls are not, in fact, perfectly spherical. "There are tiny, minute imprecise abrasions. But to the naked eye they'll look pretty nice." Posters on Slashdot.com will claim that they've not yet cracked their steel balls and enabled the music. "It's in there," a Slashdot poster named Borg2Soon will say, "I've set up a Linux box to play the steel balls." The plastic pyramids are a bit more diffucult since they take up more space and aren't as portable as the steel balls. "You can't carry as many pyramids around at one time," John C. Dvorak will say. The Screensavers Patrick Norton will be dubious. "Well, I'm not sure why they made the music into steel balls. I liked the normal files." The screensavers Yoshi will design a case-mod in which users can place up to one thousand balls and fifteen pyramids. "It's a wicked mod," Yoshi will say. Thousands will build the mod. Millions will praise the balls. "But not the pyramids. I don't like the pyramids." John C. Dvorak will wonder why they just couldn't have made the pyramids plastic balls instead of plastic pyramids. "Come on, Microsoft," Dvorak will chide, "not everyone has room for all these pyramids." Microsoft's stock will skyrocket. Amazon will merge with Starbucks. They'll rename the new store 'Pequod.' The White Whale will be spotted. "Balls!" Ahab will shout.
    • Funniest -- weirdest -- damn thing I've read all morning.

      Whoever mod'd this as 'Offtopic' is a moron.

      I'll agree it doesn't address the actual situation as specified in the topic, but the idea here -- the anger, at least -- has a ring of truth not heard on Slashdot on a long time.

      Funny shit!

      (BTW -- on topic -- what happens to the DRM files when you need to reinstall the OS? Do you lose everything?)

  • What's the difference? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by dmomo ( 256005 ) on Friday December 06, 2002 @11:54AM (#4827386)
    All sorts of interesting legal wrinkles here: you're buying a computer which contains data that you cannot legally access.

    I don't see much of a difference between this and software demos that are made up of the full version and only need a registration key to be unlocked.

  • Disney did something similar. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by MarvinMouse ( 323641 ) on Friday December 06, 2002 @11:56AM (#4827400) Homepage Journal
    Disney Interactive about 4-7 years ago used to include entire programs with its computers but would disable them until you paid an online payment to them.

    This is way back though. I just remember trying to figure out how to get through the disabling so I could play... Never figured it out. (I was really young then.) All I knew is that if you signed up with them (it would dial a long distance number and give your info to them), the programs would become active.

    Perhaps now with the internet, more people will go out of their way to break the DRM, but I am willing to say most will either pay to listen to them, or just continue downloading like they always have using morpheus or something similar.
  • I'd love to see the first lawsuit after these watermarked mp3s get cracked and make it onto a p2p network.

    "Dude, you're going to Jail!"

    *ducks*

  • Protected data? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by phorm ( 591458 ) on Friday December 06, 2002 @12:07PM (#4827501) Journal
    I didn't quite grasp it in the article, but I would assume that this data is somehow encoded/protected so that it is only accessible with the key or subscription (post-trial)?

    I remember when ID software shipped extra games on their Quake, etc CD's. You could call in and get a decoding key to install the games.

    After a while, somebody cracked the CD and you could get the games with a keygen... somehow I think encoding data on a machine is just asking for trouble.

  • What pressplay sells (Score:5, Informative)

    by jbolden ( 176878 ) on Friday December 06, 2002 @12:15PM (#4827565) Homepage
    Pressplay sells two plans:

    $9.95 / month for unlimited streaming + downloading into press play format
    $17.95 / month for unlimited streaming + 10 conversions to portable formats
    they also offer the $17.95 / month plan as $14.95 / month if you pay for the entire year in advance.

    The non portable format is tranferable to one other system. Further tracks can be organized in play lists and sets....

    My guess is that they are trying to sell people on the $9.95 / month to have a large music library on their computer. I'd further guess that pressplay also is coming out with some sort of portable player for their format.

    So a gateway customer paying $9.95 / month has:
    1) a very large music library on their system
    2) The ability to add to it freely as new music comes out
    3) The ability to take this music and move it to their portable player

    I can see this doing quite well. 200k songs ~ 18k albums ~ 500 shelves ~ 100 sq foot CD collection ~ 1/2 a small record store excluding duplicates ~ a small record store including duplicates.

    That's a lot of music for a home user at a price which is not unreasonable. I can see music fans which aren't that computer savvy going for this. The main thing that needs to happen is for gateway/pressplay to offer a way to get the music into a car for people not to realize this is not as good a deal as it looks like.
  • The RIAA can take their DRM-ware spewage and shove it.

    Tell them I'll consider their junk-ware if they can get me the following:

    • All music from every Anime ever released in Original Japanese, German, and French.
    • Each national anthem from every country in the United Nations performed by the national band of said country.
    • Every Song from every J-Pop, K-Pop, and C-Pop artist ever plus remixes.
    • Amazing Grace and Danny Boy. On the pipes. By real Scotsmen.
    • Every Faye Wong song in Cantonese.
    • Winamp! It really whips the llama's Ass!

    Now not everyone may not like my tastes but dammit, the RIAA has no business hawking this BS all over the place when it has no idea what it is that some of us even listen to.

    Tim

  • This reminds me of quake I shareware disc... (Score:3, Informative)

    by venomkid ( 624425 ) on Friday December 06, 2002 @12:21PM (#4827615)
    ...where id software decided to package all of their old games encrypted on the CD with the ability to 'unlock' them with a credit card.

    Then some unscrupulous scoundrels broke the encryption, and turned a $9 game preview into Best of ID Software Platinum "Game of the Year" Edition.

    blah blah client side security blah blah tooth fairy...

    Also, i wonder if, when they tell you the size of the HD, do they chop off the space they've filled up with 2000 unwanted songs? Do they make it obvious that you could save a few gigs by deleting them? Probably not.
  • The DMCA protects technological measures that control access to a protected work. In copyright law, access = acquisition, so it properly protects things like password systems on web sites. Access is not the same as use, and the abuses of the DMCA so far have been in it's application to protect use control mechanisms. However, the code that stops you accessing the data on the hard drive, data to which you have no legal right of access under copyright law (good old, pre-DMCA copyright law), is rightly protected by the DMCA.

    Flame away!

  • So much for Gateway supporting your "rights..." (Score:3, Insightful)

    by dpbsmith ( 263124 ) on Friday December 06, 2002 @12:35PM (#4827715) Homepage
    Gateway says here [gateway.com]:

    "As a leading proponent of inexpensive and easy-to-use downloadable music, Gateway believes consumers should have lawful rights to encode, copy, collect, purchase and listen to their personal music collections in the MP3 format. We fully support an MP3 user's right to:

    'Rip' and encode their own CD music collections into digital music files for their own personal use and enjoyment.

    Make as many copies of their digital music files as they would like for their own personal use. This freely allows consumers to copy their MP3s on any number of their own computers in various locations, as well as on to their portable MP3 hardware players.

    'Burn' their music files onto compact discs for their own personal use."

    Yeah yeah yeah, now that I see Gateway's ACTIONS I can go back and re-read those words with the right slant. "Of course, we never expected you to think that the files you purchased as part of your Gateway Computer are YOUR files." Or perhaps, "Well, we only meant that for .mp3's. We don't feel that you have any rights for files whose names end in any other set of three letters."

    My mother taught me that the essence of a lie was not whether or not the statement was technically true, but whether the speaker intended for the listener to misunderstand them. I'm afraid Gateway's fine talk about consumers' rights is just such a statement.

  • In a related move... (Score:3, Funny)

    by kitzilla ( 266382 ) <.moc.liamg. .ta. .gorfrepap.> on Friday December 06, 2002 @05:15PM (#4828800) Homepage Journal
    Glaxo, Inc, announced today it will soon begin shipping sealed bags of M&Ms with its blood sugar testing kits...

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