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How To Stop Piracy: Raid CD-R Moguls 289

An anonymous reader writes "In what appears to be a not-so-legal move, Mexico's equivalent of the RIAA used federal police to raid the installations of Grupo Mekong, responsible for 200 of the 400 million virgin CDs imported each year, accusing them to be "capos" of the Piracy bussiness in Mexico. What is the rationale? Record companies buy only 20% of Mekong merchandise, so the other 80% must be going to pirates! Yeah, Never mind computer users ,independent labels or other legal uses. You can see the article here but what amazes me is the behaviour! What will the next step be? Raid the truck companies who deliver the CDs? "
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How To Stop Piracy: Raid CD-R Moguls

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  • by shepd ( 155729 ) <slashdot.org@gmail.COMMAcom minus punct> on Saturday December 28, 2002 @03:56AM (#4971405) Homepage Journal
    A large percentage of their inventory is used for satellite piracy! Com'mon RIAA, can't you help out the poor satellite companies!
  • English via google (Score:5, Informative)

    by MikeFM ( 12491 ) on Saturday December 28, 2002 @04:01AM (#4971414) Homepage Journal
    English translation [google.com]
    • by flopsy mopsalon ( 635863 ) on Saturday December 28, 2002 @04:48AM (#4971518)
      You thank often for informative very translation! Points of article veritably stated I address must:
      According to calculations of the Protective Derechos Association Intelectuales Fonogra'ficos (APDIF), the legal industry purchase per year 20 million discs, as soon as the 10 percent of 200 million that the Soli's matter and sell annually. For that reason they are indicated like the main suppliers of piracy in Mexico.
      Generalization infamous this argument specious is. Uses of numerous multiplicity disks can be made to have by consumer. To Piracy assume on simple stupidhead calcuations offhand make, demostrates syllogistically the logic that smells foul.
      Between the supposed denounced irregularities, Ildefonso Soli's indicated that in the operative one of the 18 of December, between the 7 million assured discs were 2,8 million units that were seized for the second time, which already had been given back them by Property because the merchandise were legal.
      Here weighings awesome of judegmental facts against poor law enforcement lean. Own actions police of past show virgin discs to of unassailable purity innocence uses comprised having been. Whole issue of suspicion frequently corruption singing quietly from under floorboards it cannot be dodged.
      • It's a bit like talking to Yoda isn't it? Lucky for me I lived in Miami for a while so I'm used to detangling this sort of thing. To bad I couldn't manage to pick up any of the non-English langs while I was at it.
        • Not to rag on google or the translation doodad, but it does amaze me that a Spanish-to-English translation could get mangled this badly -- being that Spanish is probably the most straightforward of the major languages. Even con solamente un ano de la clase de Espanol demaciados anos pasados (30 to be exact) and only light exposure to L.A. Spanglish since then, I got more sense out of the original Spanish!!

      • How are you gentlemen? Are you Captain, Mechanic, or Cats? This situation is not for great justice. You know what you doing, move zig!
  • by Buran ( 150348 ) on Saturday December 28, 2002 @04:19AM (#4971452)
    I'd like to see 'em raid the trucks The Fast and the Furious-style. Imagine Hilary Rosen driving one of those Civics and cursing in Spanish at the truck driver. Imagine Jack Valenti hanging from the side of the truck getting his arm cut off while his lobbyist pals in some more black Civics try to save him.

    Or...

    "I'd like to live, just long enough, to see them put your head on a pike as a reminder to the next ten generations that some boy band music comes at too high a price. I'd like to look up into your lifeless eyes, and wave, like this..."
    • I think the point is more like from the preface to one of THE EXECUTIONER series of lone-hero-vs-the-mob adventure novels:

      Quoting some classical author: "Those who fear life are already three parts dead."

      The guy who is The Executioner: "I don't care if they all die. I'll be content to make them three parts dead."

      Point being, the object is to strike such fear into the heart of business that even legit blank media producers will bow to the will of the content moguls, preferably by going away entirely. But, you protest, Sony sells CD blanks too! Yeah, and just wait til ONLY Sony sells CD blanks. At appropriately monopolistic prices.

      While I don't think it could ever come to that (there being too much of the world that the content moguls don't and can't control) I'm sure the notion has crossed certain very small minds. Scaring or annoying legit producers out of business is a first step.

  • by tgrotvedt ( 542393 ) on Saturday December 28, 2002 @04:19AM (#4971454) Journal
    That the tyre manufacturers have to be stopped.

    They are giving the truck manufacturers all the ammunition they need to make trucks.

    Trucks give these so-called truck companies the very tools needed to have a truck company, which provides a perfect cocktail for the CD-R retailers to get their greedy, dishonest hands on the product.

  • CD's not CDR's? (Score:3, Informative)

    by suss ( 158993 ) on Saturday December 28, 2002 @04:21AM (#4971461)
    Yeah, Never mind computer users ,independent labels or other legal uses.

    It looks more like these are CD's that have to be pressed, not CDR's useable by computer users.

    Don't these CD's have to be pressed in a factory?

    Anyway, it's inexcuseable, but probably something the RIAA would do too if they could get away with it.
    • Re:CD's not CDR's? (Score:4, Informative)

      by Jace of Fuse! ( 72042 ) on Saturday December 28, 2002 @04:26AM (#4971474) Homepage
      Don't these CD's have to be pressed in a factory?

      Yes, but I'm sure RIAA skillfully ignored all those COMPUTER SOFTWARE DISCS that have to be pressed.
    • Re:CD's not CDR's? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by dWhisper ( 318846 )
      I would have to assume that the RIAA would have us all listening to music after we crawled to them to get it, if they could get away with it.

      And I don't believe it's a matter of pressing, it'd just need to be done in an industrial burner. Something like a rackmount system that took 1 real CD and dumped out 20 copies.

      I can understand them wanting to shut down things like this, but honestly, this step is going a little overboard for the need of raids. What's funny is they probably had to pull the Narcotic guys off stopping drug dealers to round up all the CDRs.
      • That's a vile thought. People catching on that the War on Drugs is mostly a way of keeping a paramilitary militia active? Declare a War on Terror! Uh oh, those damn Christ-killing liberal media bitches are daring to ask what the actual connection is between fundamentalist Al Quada and the secular regime in Iraq. What can we demonize next?

        Pirates are pretty scary, right? And Joe Sixpack hates Poindexters, and everyone that burns CD's is a Poindexter, right?

        Let's have a War on Copying.

        It's such a vile thought that it's almost certainly true.

  • Don't doubt it! (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Martigan80 ( 305400 )
    What will the next step be? Raid the truck companies who deliver the CDs?

    Well don'tdoubt it; anything that would constitute probable cause will lead them there. Anything that is touched by the merchandise is evidence. The harsh way to look at it but now that they have access to an area they will look for anything else that might be "wrong". That is basic investigation work. Sure that is not your main focus BUT you are also told to look for anything else, so ... this leaves a lot of ambiguity and speculation. Also leaves you open to other probes.

    It is nice to see that they are working with other agencies though! ;-)
  • by MacAndrew ( 463832 ) on Saturday December 28, 2002 @04:45AM (#4971513) Homepage
    They say to not know that they make other industries with the virgin discs that sell to them

    Notice the dateline is "City of Mexico." I imagine President Bush lives in the "House of White."

    How long before we have an international incident because someone relied on these freebie translators? Imagine the U.S. using google to save time going through all those docs from Saddam Hussein ("My God! He's stockpiled 36,000 sticks of weaponized rancid butter!").

    *

    I searched for "Mekong Group" (kind of a disturbing name to Americans in light of Vietnam fighting there: "The Mekong group comprises Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos, Thailand, Myanmar and China's Yunnan province, all of which border the Mekong River.") No luck.

    However, from reading the article in Spanish (and I don't speak Spanish) I get the impression that the actual allegation is that the Group knowingly sold millions of discs "off the books" and can't account for them in their invoicing. If true, the action doesn't sound so unreasonable, as it suggests they knew they were doing something fishy. "Suggests" -- who knows? But this doesn't sound like a suspicionless search, and not at all Orwellian.
    • Plus it's mexico. Hear lots of good things about their police, there. Right.
    • You call that funny? (Score:4, Informative)

      by CBNobi ( 141146 ) on Saturday December 28, 2002 @06:04AM (#4971640)
      BabelFish, and other systems based off of the SysTran system use a literal translation algorithm [uni-sb.de], also called Word-for-Word [translatio...ware4u.com] translation. Thus, it doesn't search for phrases or sentence structure; it's not uncommon to see "su" (the Spanish equivalent of his/her/its) simply translated as "his". And as Spanish would have it, "Ciudad de Mexico" literally translates to "City of Mexico". ("White House" is "Casa Blanca", by the way)

      As for the Mekong group, with a quick search you'd find their website [grupomekong.com.mx]. Note that it's "Grupo Mekong".

      News flash: Not everything is based off of English. Nor does everything get passed on to American sites.
    • by ninewands ( 105734 ) on Saturday December 28, 2002 @08:49AM (#4971877)
      Quoth the poster:
      I searched for "Mekong Group" (kind of a disturbing name to Americans in light of Vietnam fighting there: "The Mekong group comprises Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos, Thailand, Myanmar and China's Yunnan province, all of which border the Mekong River.") No luck.

      Nice to know your Google grepping skills are so well developed [grupomekong.com.mx]. The company, being Mexican, has a Spanish name. They are "Grupo Mekong, not "Mekong Group." Also, being a Mexican company, they are not terribly troubled by things that are "kind of a disturbing name to Americans in light of Vietnam fighting ...".

      Let's see ... from their "Productos" page, it appears that they sell to Gauss CD, SONY, TDK, Verbatim ... sounds like burnable CD-Rs that are usable for both audio mastering and data to me ... I don't know if Mexican law provides for lawsuits on the basis of "malicious prosecution" or "abuse of legal process" like Anglo-American law does, but it would certainly be interesting to see what evidence APDIF would present to justify this raid.
    • Considering the incredibly corrupt state of Mexican law enforcement, not to mention of certain business interests -- regardless of the actual charge, I'd guess the action was precipitated by a well-placed bribe. And maybe it wasn't out of the blue, but consider: what if it happened here? What if the **AA thought that the makers of blank disks were selling them under the table to the large-scale pirates, and decided a nice cozy FBI raid, complete with mass confiscations, was just the thing??

      Er.... come to think of it, we already have the BSA pretty much getting away with this wrt software audits.

      Ya know, DEA raids set a hideously bad example...

      • Ha, I can out-cynic you any day. If it turns on bribery, I'd suggest that the raid occurred because the target failed to pony up an even larger counterbribe.

        I imagine the bootleggers are better connected in the Mexican government, and that these raids are only coming from enormous foreign (American) pressure. But that in itself does not prove the raids are illegitimate; there is staggering piracy going on, with Mexico City as the epicenter; and indeed if you were going to buy a raid, wouldn't you pick an actual enemy? I suspect there was at least some grounds to question their books. But no, I don't take the Mexican gov't's credibility for granted -- or the Mexican media's. :)

        "A cynic is a person searching for an honest man,
        with a stolen lantern."
        • Well, yeah, there is that -- wouldn't surprise me at all if it was really a case of "late on the protection money again? Tsk. Either pay a second bribe or Bad Things will happen!"

          Being lazy, I'll answer AvitarX in this same post.. So, if you're selling large numbers of ball-peen hammers that people are using to bash in car windows so they can steal stereos, should we hope that the cops shut down your hardware store?

          "No one goes from idealism to realism; there's a cynical stage inbetween." -- Sir Fred Hoyle (IIRC)

      • If they really were selling huge amounts of blanks on the black market to pirates I would hope that they would get in lots of trouble. They are fueling a type of priracy that from what I gathered the majority of slashdotters don't support. And they are cheating on their taxes in a way that costs everyone money. Also the money laundering side of things would quite likley involve funding all other sorts of no good.
  • Where does it end? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by NeoMoose ( 626691 )
    That's almost as bad as taking on the maufacturer's of the CD-R's themselves. It's a waste of resources.
  • by pavera ( 320634 ) on Saturday December 28, 2002 @04:57AM (#4971528) Homepage Journal
    I speak and read spanish rather fluently,
    these were CD-R's
    The government agency APDIF (the association protecting the intellectual property of musical recordings) raided this company,
    the company says its illegal because they aren't doing anything wrong, the APDIF is using statistics similar to those used by the RIAA to substanciate their claims that Mekong is aiding the piracy industry ( leaving out all legal uses of CD-R's including data, and other legal uses), Mekong suspects that the APDIF has bribed government officials, or is in some other way in bed with them, and they are specifically attacking Mekong, the article states that there are at least 50 other CD-R importers none of which have been hassled at all, while Mekong has been interferred with 10 times in the last year.
    • by pavera ( 320634 ) on Saturday December 28, 2002 @04:59AM (#4971530) Homepage Journal
      correction, the agency PGR raided the company,
      apparently at the behest of APDIF
      sorry for that.
    • APDIF? (Score:3, Funny)

      by autopr0n ( 534291 )
      Is that like S/PDIF?

      Sorry, that was a really lame joke.
    • by Surak ( 18578 ) <.surak. .at. .mailblocks.com.> on Saturday December 28, 2002 @07:28AM (#4971765) Homepage Journal
      ( leaving out all legal uses of CD-R's including data, and other legal uses)

      I don't know what the laws in Mexico are, but generally speaking if they are anything like the U.S. (and that's likely because I *think* they have signed onto the Berne Convention), then there are far more legal uses for CD-Rs than data, including burning copyrighted music to them.

      Remember that fair use allows me to take my legally purchased copyrighted music CDs, rip them to MP3 files, and then burn them to a "mix" CD. There's nothing illegal about that. Note that fair use does NOT allow me to take those same MP3s and share them with the world via a P2P network, however. (Not that that's stopping anyone. ;)

      • by angle_slam ( 623817 ) on Saturday December 28, 2002 @11:27AM (#4972261)
        Remember that fair use allows me to take my legally purchased copyrighted music CDs, rip them to MP3 files, and then burn them to a "mix" CD. There's nothing illegal about that.

        Well, that is your position anyway. If you look at the Audio Home Recording Act ("AHRA") [cornell.edu], you'll see that there is an immunity to making some types of recordings. One cannot be prosecuted for making those types of recordings. However, the RIAA's position (as seen here [riaa.org]) is that CD-R drives on computers are not covered by the Audio Home Recording Act:

        Multipurpose devices, such as a general computer or a CD-ROM drive, are not covered by the AHRA. This means that they are not required to pay royalties or incorporate SCMS protections. It also means, however, that neither manufacturers of the devices, nor the consumers who use them, receive immunity from suit for copyright infringement.
        All this may mean, however, is that, instead of looking at the Audio Home Recording Act to see if making a personal copy is legal, one would have to look at the traditional Fair Use factors [cornell.edu]. It is very arguable that the AHRA was originally intended to prevent perfect digital copies of CDs, and an MP3 is not a perfect digital copy. In fact, one may argue that distributing MP3s is a "noncommercial use," as those who place music on Kazaa are not seeking renumeration, so are thus within the spirit (though possibly not within the letter) of the AHRA.
        • However, the RIAA's position (as seen here [riaa.org]) is that CD-R drives on computers are not covered by the Audio Home Recording Act.

          Multipurpose devices, such as a general computer or a CD-ROM drive, are not covered by the AHRA. This means that they are not required to pay royalties or incorporate SCMS protections. It also means, however, that neither manufacturers of the devices, nor the consumers who use them, receive immunity from suit for copyright infringement.


          What, precisely, constitutes a "general computer"? Is a PVR (such as Tivo) a "general computer"? Before you answer that, remember that Tivo and many other PVRs use Linux [an operating system written for general purpose computers] as their base OS. What about a PDA? Or an MP3 playback/recording device? Or a Sony Minidisc Recorder? These things are certainly based on general purpose computing devices.

          My point is that computers and consumer electronics are converging. This is a result of the natural evolution of the technology. Certainly the AHRA took into account advances in such technology?

          Also, what constitutes a perfect digital copy? I think even a raw bit-by-bit copy of a CD to a CD-R can result in a slight degradation of quality (loss of data) due to differences in the media between commercial CDs and CD-Rs.

          I don't think many on Slashdot would argue with me if I said I thought the RIAA was full of shit.

      • The "Fair Use" concept in copyright law is an issue of US law, arising out of US court decisions, not something we acquired with the Berne Convention. I don't know how Mexico does copyright law. But data is certainly the obvious one to talk about, because recording your data on your CD-Writer is obviously a legal reason to have blank CDs.
  • by Rolman ( 120909 ) on Saturday December 28, 2002 @05:05AM (#4971541)
    I'm Mexican and while I really feel embarrased this kind of idiocy happens in my country, looking closer it happened because the authorities and legal system are extremely broken and stupid when it comes to understanding the nature of the crime that is being pursued in regards to piracy, and the record companies can abuse the situation.

    Funny, but I think this is the same case in almost ANY country. So, while it happened in Mexico because the system could be abused pretty easily, watch out for the same thing happening in other countries soon enough.

    Before this happened, I had even seen commercials stating in a pretty explicit way some phrases equivalent to: "Piracy is theft". This shows it's not only a fault in our system, but because the record companies have the money and power to push their lame propaganda, laws and the perception of the crime can be shaped fairly easily by pulling the right strings.

    As every educated /.ter should know, piracy IS a crime, only it's not related to theft, but to copyright infringement. This definition is blurred specifically by the record companies in Mexico so to be able to prompt the Police to take care of things as they command.

    You see, there is a really strong music industry in Mexico, where we have literally hundreds of "artists" that sell their overrated, overpriced crap all over the continent, and predictably, this industry is controlled by the same RIAA companies we love to hate.

    In fact, these events should come as no surprise, because in countries like mine, most people can't afford to pay the equivalent to US$15 for a single disk, priced as if it were an imported item, when it could be cheaper because the price markups don't need to be as high as in other countries, where everything from labor to land costs are more expensive. People DO buy and distribute bootlegs, there ARE criminals around here, but this is not the way to handle the situation. This is just a test of RIAA's power.

    Companies that want to protect their profit margins and revenue sources at the expense of the user... Where do you see this happening next?

    Mark my words, this is going to happen in another country and at a much bigger scale, sooner or later.

    Now, who are the real "capos"?
    • by PjotrP ( 593817 ) on Saturday December 28, 2002 @08:09AM (#4971817)
      In some way it's already happening for a couple of years in Holland too. In principle at least because while we do not have raids on the cd-r companies like in mexico the dutch equivalent of the RIAA has made it so that they get a certain percentage of every sold cd-r.

      How is the same in principle? Well the thought behind it is very similar. In both cases the record industry just assumes to know what those empty cd-r's will get used for. The only difference is the choice of action taken in light of that assumption.

      When you think about it the thing happening in Mexico is the more logical one. Because when the first assumption is made the more logical step is to follow up that assumption with legal measures. At least the mexican stand on cd-r's is consistent in the sense that once they view it as an illegal activity they take legal actions... The dutch RIAA on the other hand chose to demand percentages of the profits made on the cd-r's. So people who just buy a 10 pack cd-r's to backup data are also paying the record companies through those percentages. This choice may at first seem logical as well (again once the first assumption is accepted) were it not for the fact that it is inconsistant with the record companies constant fight on piracy. So on the one hand they charge people for burning cd's because there are probably copyrighted mp3's involved but on the other hand they are working to make sure that no copyrighted material even exists unless pressed on their own releases. Its like on the one hand banning guns while on the other hand demanding a percentage for every gun sold.

      So at least in Mexico a wrong assumption leads to an action that can be justified by that assumption while in holland a wrong assumption leads another action which in itself cant be justified by the wrong assumption.

      Ah well, this whole problem will be solved with the new copyprotected discs, wont it? hehe

      • Its like on the one hand banning guns while on the other hand demanding a percentage for every gun sold.
        More like banning guns, yet demanding a percentage on all steel sales, as it can only be used to make guns you know (at least that's what this big pile of cash sitting in front of you says, Senator. And money's never wrong.).

        • More like banning guns, yet demanding a percentage on all steel sales, as it can only be used to make guns you know . . .

          Exactly. Where I work, we produce thousands of recorded CD-Rs every year (no audio, mp3s, etc., just digital data). Yet we're taxed on every blank we buy to support the RIAA because we could be doing something illegal. It's like the movie Popeye, where the tax collector wants Robin Williams to pay an "up to no good" tax. If it wasn't so insane, it would be funny.

      • the dutch equivalent of the RIAA has made it so that they get a certain percentage of every sold cd-r.

        This also happens in the U.S.
    • by Roofus ( 15591 ) on Saturday December 28, 2002 @09:16AM (#4971922) Homepage
      Excuse me sir, but this is Slashdot. I'm going to need you to take your rational viewpoint somewhere else.
    • thank you for the perspective, it is great to get a view from someone living in Mexico instead of the rest of us just making blind suppositions. I worked there for a while about a decade ago, and can certainly see how a financially powerful group like the RIAA could find 'friends' in the government for long enough to make radis like this. I still remember all the money i had to give the police in Mexico City just to keep them from writing my foreign car a ticket every day ...
    • In Brazil, there's something similar to that, but the message is "piracy is a crime". Here, a new CD costs around US$7.50 to US$10.00, but an equivalent pirate CD costs around US$2.85 (at least where I live). These pirate CDs are usually pressed bootlegs, but not always. Considering a single CD costs (in average) 15% of minimum monthly wage in Brazil, I think it's safe to assume CDs are way overpriced here. Sad to see bootleggers AND record companies get rich taking advantage of this situation. And copy-protected CDs are cropping up here too. :(
    • by deblau ( 68023 ) <slashdot.25.flickboy@spamgourmet.com> on Saturday December 28, 2002 @03:32PM (#4973046) Journal
      As every educated /.ter should know, piracy IS a crime, only it's not related to theft, but to copyright infringement.

      As every educated /.ter should know, piracy IS a crime, only it's not related to copyright infringement, but to crime on the high seas [cornell.edu]. Real piracy carries a life sentence [cornell.edu].

  • is it possible (Score:3, Insightful)

    by alizard ( 107678 ) <alizard@@@ecis...com> on Saturday December 28, 2002 @05:20AM (#4971571) Homepage
    I don't know the legal system in Mexico, other than that it has a reputation for corruption (rather like the US Congress) or the respective organization. I'm interested in comments from people who actually know the situation down there.

    Is it possible for the company who had its CDRs ripped off to sue the Mexican equivalent of RIAA into oblivion, i.e. to ... outbid the recording industry for justice?

    • The Mexican recording industry used to be pretty much independent of the big media multinationals. Grupo Televisa essentially owned every single artist that existed in the country, along with their souls, their bodies and the rights to their music. Televisa was (is) a government cheering posse, with strong ties to the then ruling party (the PRI). So it was pretty much impossible to win a court case against them.

      As the world has changed, so has Mexico. After 70 years, there's another party in power (the PAN), which, if anything, is far less paternalistic but more business friendly (president Vicente Fox used to be an executive in the Mexican arm of Coca-Cola, something unheard of when the PRI was in power). So, even though Televisa's influence has waned to a certain extent, the circumstances have changed and globalization has expanded the role of the big media companies into the country with the blessing of the business-friendly government.

      So, in closing, if you wanted to take anyone to court, you were screwed then and you are screwed today. But for different reasons =)

      In any case, if you think the US legal system is bad, you should try Mexico. All you need is enough money to buy a judge, and you're home free. There is no trial by jury, no grand jury, no peer review, very little appeal recourse and virtually no, erm, justice. Unless you happen to be rich. Pretty much the same as the US, except that in Mexico you don't have to maintain appearances - you just pay up!

  • by autopr0n ( 534291 ) on Saturday December 28, 2002 @05:31AM (#4971590) Homepage Journal
    I know in Canada, for example, that all CD-Rs are taxed, and part of the money goes to the recording companies. If a Canadian importer was only sending 20% of the CDs that they imported to stores that collected the tax, they would probably be doing something illegal there, so perhaps there is a similar situation in Mexico... i.e. only 20% of the CD-Rs that are sold have the record-tax collected with the sale. If that was the case, then there would certainly be a legal reason to go after these people, if not a moral one.

    (btw, It probably goes without saying, but I think these kinds of laws are ridiculous. In the US taxes are collected on blank tapes, and special CD-Rs that special music-only CD burners can record onto)
    • by Nogami_Saeko ( 466595 ) on Saturday December 28, 2002 @06:48AM (#4971715)
      It's worth noting that to date, the CPCC (Candian Private Copying Collective) has collected over 20 MILLION dollars due to the levy on CD-R media.

      Not a single PENNY has gone to anyone except the CPCC. They havn't given any of it to anyone.

      And since the levy is implemented by the government, you'd expect that we (the public) could have a look at the books... Wrong, the CPCC is more or less a private company, so they don't have to show the public what they're doing behind the scenes.

      What a scam.
      • And people in the USA are always going on how moving to Canada would be better than living here.
  • by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Saturday December 28, 2002 @05:39AM (#4971598)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Evidently you forget President Reagan's revelation many years ago that trees also cause pollution. Worse, when they are cut down they are used to build substandard homes, ground into paper for inferior publications, and worst of all burned, producing still more pollution.

      To add insult to injury the tree next to our house tried to drop a huge branch on us the other day.

      IMHO the damn things should be banned.
  • by Tom ( 822 ) on Saturday December 28, 2002 @05:46AM (#4971609) Homepage Journal
    How large has the CD industry become over the past few years? I'd guess it's already larger than the music industry. Just take a look at your local electronics store - I know several that have more shelf space devoted to CD readers, writers, blanks and other equipment than to music CDs.

    So in essence, this is just one industry association trying to do as much damage on another industry as they can. Because they know that sooner or later, it'll all come down to "what is better for the economy" or "who has the larger bottom line".
  • by Newer Guy ( 520108 ) on Saturday December 28, 2002 @07:21AM (#4971754)
    What a GREAT IDEA for law enforcement!! See, now they don't have to investigate murders any more, just go and arrest the manufacturers of the bullets! Now every murder can be solved in seconds! Piracy? Arrest the people who run the electric company! After all, they provide the power that runs the computers those pirates use! Or, even better, go and arrest the managers of the FOOD STORES. After all, if they didn't sell food to pirates and criminals, they'd starve to death! OH..and arresting the food managers will have an unexpected bonus...we'll starve terrorists to death at the same time! Does this sound ridiculous? Seems to me that it's exactly what's going on! See, many things can be used for both legal and illegal purposes. Banning them JUST BECAUSE the potential of illegal use exists is purley asanine, yet it's already happening now.....
    • See, now they don't have to investigate murders any more

      I think you hit on a much bigger point! They don't have to get their hands dirty investigating REAL CRIMES like murder and actual theft(carjackings, burglary, etc.), they get to use unreasonable amounts of time and public resources(the police are a public resource!) investigating copyright infringement on behalf of the extremely wealthy.

      I guess we now know who the government and police force REALLY work for...

  • Have a translation (Score:5, Informative)

    by cookd ( 72933 ) <douglascook@NOSpam.juno.com> on Saturday December 28, 2002 @07:28AM (#4971767) Journal
    (Let's hear it for the karma whores! WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP!)

    Ok, another translation by a person who kinda knows Spanish (I do fine in conversation) but I am bound to get a few things wrong where you need to know the culture. Those who know better -- please feel free to correct me. When I'm uncertain, I put the actual literally-translated Spanish word in parentheses after my guess at the best-fit (actual meaning) English word. Here goes nothing:

    UEDO (Special Unit against Organized Crime) detains (roots?) head(?) pirates
    They (the pirates?) say they don't know/don't care about the way that their blank disks are used.

    The UEDO spent 90 days detaining (rooting?) Efrain and Rafael Solis Heredia, owners of the Mekong Group and considered by the music indistry the "heads" of record piracy, since they alone bring into Mexico about 200 of the 400 million blank disks that are imported each year.

    Idelfonso, Solis Heredia, brother of those detained (rooted?), acting as proxy, announced yesterday that the next week he will denounce PGR and the Secretariat... for the "illegal" nature of a December 18th operation where the Solis brothers were detained and 7 million CDR disks were confiscated (secured?).

    "This operation turned into a search, but they had no warrant, with these situations as our basis, we are performing a legal analysis to figure out what kind of charges (demands?) will be brought, in the next week we'll have it." (run-on sentence present in original Spanish, making it hard for me to figure out what he was really trying to say...)

    "They (the PGR?) were requested to release them (the Solis brothers), but the PGR detained (rooted?) them so that they could start their investigations, from that comes our concern because in the style of earlier administrations (Governments?) they are trying to make up some nonexistent crime or plant something to make us guilty of something that was never found," said the lawyer.

    The Solis brothers are (SIC-were?) detained during the previous investigation PGR/UEDO/397/02, since its business, which has branches in 4 parts of the country, sells blank disks to the legal record industry as well as to pirates.

    According to the calculations of the APDIF (Association for the Protection of Recording/Music IP), the legitamate industry (i.e. the record industry) purchases 20 million disks per year, but that is only 10% of the 200 million that the Solis family imports and sells each year. For this reason, they are flagged as the principle instigators of piracy in Mexico.

    Among the accusations he refuted (among the supposed irregularities denounced?), Ildefonso Solis noted that in the December 18th operation, among the 7 million disks confiscated were 2.8 million units that were taken for a second time, since they had already been returned since the merchandise was legal.

    "60% of these disks were produced in Mexico, 20% were disks that had been seized the previous time, and 20% are disks for which we have the necessary invoices and papers, so we can't see any reason why they make these illegal seizures," he said.

    In fact, Mekong's proxy (Idelfonso) presented copies of documents from the Tax Administration Service, in which is recorded the return of 2,852,523 blank CDR disks and 3 CPUs on August 27.

    Solis said that it is not their problem that some of their customers are producers of unauthorized music, and accused the AMPROFON (Mexican Association of Producers of Records and Videos) and the APDIF (Association for the Protection of Record IP) of being behind the "defamations" and operations of the PGR.

    "They claim that these disks can be used for illegal activities, which is something that doesn't really concern us -- we know what we are doing, but we don't know what other industries are doing."

    "We know that behind them (PGR) is the AMPROFON componay, that they (AMPROFON) have turned (taken? I'm guessing the m should really be an rn, in which case "turned" is correct) them against us, as well as APDIF, because they feel it is illegal (they feel illegal?), but we only sell original blank materal, and we sell it to the industry, we don't understand the rationale behind these accusations and defamations against us," he claimed.

    In addition, he asked the PGR for "talk, not repression," since he complained that the federal authorities have only acted against ("grabbed at it") the Mekong company and not against a single one of the 50 other companies -- including international companies -- that are involved with importing and selling CDR disks.

    Between December 19th 2001 and December 18th 2002, there have been 10 operations and 10 visits to 10 branches and warehouses of this company that supposedly supplies half of the pirates in Mexico.

    "We know that we are not the only ones, there are about 50 companies that are involved in importing disks, and among these 50 there are many international ones that have not been bothered and that are involved in the same activities as are we, I won't name names."

    "We want the authorities to talk with us and we want to not have repression, the operations that are being made are totally illegal, we want there to be dialogue, that the authorities explain to us why they are doing these illegal actions," said Solis.
  • Wow... (Score:2, Funny)

    by russx2 ( 572301 )
    Grupo Mekong, responsible for 200 of the 400 million virgin CDs imported each year
    If they'll raid a group of that size, imagine what would happen to a group making twice that, say, 400!
  • How long until the record companies can seize a person's entire bank account just because they hear a song in a taxi? Sounds ridiculous now, but so did stories like this.
  • by Yokoshima ( 637029 ) on Saturday December 28, 2002 @11:39AM (#4972292)
    I've been a long time reader of /. and even sometimes dabble in to see the replies of people, being a Mexican my attention was caught by this article, and more so by the replies. I'll try and give some more insight and correct some things. 1)We can't say "It happened in Mexico" because there are three different places called Mexico, one is the country, another is the state and a third one is the city, so Ciudad de Mexico is quite right. 2)Raided makes me think of swat teams jumping in from windows totting guns and helicopters flying overhead etc...(yes its your dammed media that makes me think this) an "arraigo" is actually just house arrest you...arraigo dosnt translate to raid TYVM. 3)A "Orden de cateo" is pretty much a search warrant which the officials didn't have while they searched through Grupo Mekong's stuff. It wasn't just the PGR that was in on this FYI also. 4)Mekong is under this supposedly because most of what they sell they sell to people that use this CDRs to burn copies of original stuff and sell them, so this compares as if in the U.S. Wal-Mart is investigated for selling the guns that the deppressed teen used to blast the heads off his classmates (what can I say I'm still fascinated by that stuff). 5)Mekong can account for every last piece of their merchandise with the required paperwork, the Officials cant account even for a search warrant. 6)Mekong believes the AMPROFON and APDIF (yes pretty much the mexican RIAA) is behind this, the same way it is in other countries. 7)Yes alot of mexican cops are looking for a bribe, they have a shitty salary and they dont ask for much 20-50 pesos (2 to 5 dollars) and theyll leave ya be, but it ain't everywhere and lets not compare Mexico's Police Force with the U.S. we ain't the racists ones, so there. 8)We're not a third world country you .... were a developing 2nd world country. 9)I know I had more but I just forgot. Puh-lease don't make like Mexico is a shitty country, every country is shitty and we can debate upon that any freakin day of the week, and twice on sunday.
  • Nice Logic (Score:2, Funny)

    by Vardan ( 172720 )
    Next lets raid Bic because they made the lighter that arsonists use, plus the pens that Check Fraud people use. Oh, and winchester and ginzu because they make the bullets and knives murderers use. Oh, and don't forget sharpie, because graffiti "artists" use sharpies all the time.

    Damn, where'd the economy go?
  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 28, 2002 @01:06PM (#4972572)
    I'm a British software developer living in a small town on the Pacific coast two hundred miles north of Acapulco. A good weekly income here is 1000 Pesos (US$100), a professional with a college degreee might make 1500 Pesos (US$150) a week. The local Commerical Mexicana, a WalMart equivalent, charges roughly the same for CDs as in the US, so a single CD is at least 10% of gross weekly income.
    Of course people don't buy their CDs from Commercial Mexicana, they buy them from the smaller music stores, whose stock is almost entirely CD-R-based, and who charge more like 30 Pesos.
    When I first moved here I spent a couple of hours at a restaurant having my brain picked by Juan Carlos, a Mexican "Del-boy" (the dodgy-goods trading hero of "Only Fools and Horses"). He was interested in improving the hard drive capacity of his CD duplicating kit -- the time he had to spend each day ripping master CDs to the burner's hard drive was down-time for the burner, and so being able to hold a larger library of masters on the hard drive would reduce the number of rips he had to do each day to meet that day's orders.
    I don't condone such blatant copyright infringement, but the fact is that the CD-R makers are selling to people who would not spend the equivalent on 'official' discs (when I first moved to the US CDs were half the price I'd been paying in the UK, so I probably tripled or quadrupled the number of CDs I bought, doubling the amount I spent.)
    The ultimate solution for the record companies has two prongs. First, the per capita income of the target market can be raised, but that's out of their hands and is hard to do in an economy that is hampered by some degree of corruption and by import/export tariffs that are high (or worse, indeterminate -- importing goods into Mexico may be legal, but the process is very erratic, which makes it hard to establish a reliable supply-chain). Second, bring the unit price more in line with the disposable income of the target market.
    • Second, bring the unit price more in line with the disposable income of the target market.

      Isn't this the kind of thing they want region-locked discs for? If they did this now, wouldn't people start importing cheap CDs from Mexico?
  • Hell, just use the new fingerprinting payment system, and track down all *buyers* of cdR media, they HAVE to be pirating ... right?

  • Mexico is not the poorest or the most corrupt nation on earth, but its certainly in the running.

    Mexico is in dire need of cultural reform. If its people had a stronger work ethic and a little bit of back-bone the country would be prosperous. The bullshit that is engrained into their culture is what is keeping it in poverty. Bigots will try to tell you that their situation is caused by some sort of racial or genetic inferiority. The truth is that they are blessed with as much innate ability as any other race or ethic group. If they would get their shit together and work to better their situation they would surely suceed. After all, they've noplace to go but up.

    Lee
  • People to often go on the strawman argument of "possable = true"
    It's possable for a CDr maker to knowingly supply pirates that dosen't make it true.
    And if a company dose suspect a costummer is a pirate do they have a responsability to take action?
    Ethicly yes legally I'd hope not.

    It's just to hard to legally establish suspicion. The retailler may suspect a person is a pirate for having a backwards hat or he may not know the slogon on the kids t shirt "Gotta rip em all RIAA." is a pirates slogen.
    It's would put everyone in a bad position.

    In a similar issue.
    During the medical pot debate in california a talk show host held a mini debate between a narcotics officer and a legalisation advocate.
    During the debate the narcotics officer flat out admitted he belived he should be able to search the homes of anyone who was prolegalisation becouse anyone for legalisation MUST be a drug addict.

    There are occasions when people are accused of being digital criminals based on the os they use.

Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- Roy L. Ash, ex-president, Litton Industries

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