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United States Technology

Preserving the Sound of America 204

Posted by timothy from the flac-and-ogg-would-be-nice dept.
jonerik writes "The Associated Press (by way of MSNBC) has this article on the Library of Congress' National Recording Registry, which 'seeks to ensure even greater protection for some of the most notable songs, speeches and other utterances.' To that end, the library's extensive collection of recordings and photos will soon be moved to a massive 41-acre complex built into the side of a mountain in Culpeper, Virginia. When construction on the site is completed - in about three years - anything stored in Culpeper should be available via computer at the library's Madison Building on Capitol Hill. The Library of Congress has been collecting recordings for almost 100 years, the first being a recording of a speech by German Emperor Wilhelm II. Since then the library has collected recorded speeches by every American President since Theodore Roosevelt, oral histories, music, radio broadcasts, and other examples of recorded sound." This sounds like a collection which will become more valuable as more people have access to the actual content of the collections.
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Preserving the Sound of America More

Preserving the Sound of America

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  • Doh! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonvmous Coward ( 589068 ) on Monday January 27, 2003 @07:34PM (#5170753)
    "This sounds like a collection which will become more valuable as more people have access to the actual content of the collections. "

    Unfortunately, thanks to the recent copyright rulings, nobody will be able to hear or see this content until Fry comes out of cyrogenic sleep.

    • Re:Doh! (Score:4, Funny)

      by geekee ( 591277 ) on Monday January 27, 2003 @07:39PM (#5170794)
      Huh. I'm sure they'll let one person at a time check out a copy of any copyrighted material. After all, they did buy the one copy. :-)

  • So.... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    What format would they deliver it in? MP3? Would they use their own government MP3 encoder and pay license fees? Ogg? Wav? Real? Audio out to a big loud speaker that gets pointed to your house? What?

    • Re:So.... (Score:5, Funny)

      by NanoGator ( 522640 ) on Monday January 27, 2003 @07:39PM (#5170791) Homepage Journal
      "What format would they deliver it in? MP3? Would they use their own government MP3 encoder and pay license fees? Ogg? Wav? Real? Audio out to a big loud speaker that gets pointed to your house? What? "

      Well, they wanted to make sure that every computer they use can play it. So they're using Midi.

    • Re:So.... (Score:2)

      by Tet ( 2721 )
      What format would they deliver it in? MP3?

      One would hope not. Since the intent of this archive is to preserve sounds, throwing half of it away at the first hurdle by using a lossy compression algorithm doesn't seem like the way to go. So rather than MP3 or Ogg Vorbis, I'd suggest lossless formats like Shorten or FLAC. FLAC has the advantage of being completely free (beer and speech), both in terms of algorithm and implementation.

  • Oh dear (Score:5, Funny)

    by Dark Lord Seth ( 584963 ) on Monday January 27, 2003 @07:36PM (#5170758) Journal

    The RIAA is going to have a field day with this one...

    • "Hello." (Score:3, Funny)

      by leonbrooks ( 8043 )
      "My name is Linus Torvalds and I pronounce Linux, Linux."

      What licence is that under?
    • There's so much material that's being lost, because of media deterioration or because nobody's bothering to maintain it or make it findable by others. Any material newer than Steamboat Billy (Buster Keaton's movie that Walt Disney borrowed) or whenever the first of the copyright-extension notch babies was written has the risk that if the publisher or author or other copyright owner can't be found, nobody can publish it.

  • How long before... (Score:5, Funny)

    by goatasaur ( 604450 ) on Monday January 27, 2003 @07:36PM (#5170759) Journal
    ...someone 'samples' this public-domain sound archive to make their own shitty techno music?

    hitler_vs_truman---battlerap.mp3
    • Just what I was thinking. What gives the Government the right to store copyrighted material all the sudden?

      Bwa hahaa!

      • Re:How long before... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by len_harms ( 455401 ) on Monday January 27, 2003 @08:04PM (#5170967)
        The law does. copy right office [copyright.gov] see chapter 7 section 704. The goverment is also exempt in many cases from paying IP payments.

        To get most of the extensions put forth in these laws you must submit a copy to them. Small price to pay for a 70+ year monopoly...

        Its ironic that the goverment is basicly the biggest warez collector there is! Then tells the rest of us to get stuffed!?
    • Why is this a problem? The public domain belongs to everyone, to make shitty things out of or not.

      Any healthy conception of free speech includes a way to draw on one's history for things that others may judge shitty or otherwise.

      • "Why is this a problem? The public domain belongs to everyone, to make shitty things out of or not."

        I never said it was a problem. It's just an extremely humorous situation to me. I am sure these recordings will be used in even wackier ways than I can foresee.

        I just love human nature... *I* am tempted to make a shitty techno mix like the one I described in parent, and I know there must be other people out there who would do the same thing. It's a beautiful thought about human nature, in a way.
    • of Thomas Edison (from 1918) which I wanted to include in a dance track. If I can ever be bothered to write it.

      "This is Edison speaking. This, th-th-th-this this, th-th-th-th-this is Edison Ed-ed-edison speaking"...

      It's a bit hissy though (recorded on a cheap tape from a wind-up gramophone).

      An online resource just makes that sort of thing too easy :-)

  • And that´s why I still read slashdot ... ? (Score:5, Funny)

    by drix ( 4602 ) on Monday January 27, 2003 @07:37PM (#5170777) Homepage
    "This sounds like a collection which will become more valuable as more people have access to the actual content of the collections."

    +1, Insightful, anyone?

  • P2P (Score:5, Funny)

    by Avsen ( 556145 ) on Monday January 27, 2003 @07:37PM (#5170779)
    Or they could just put it on Kazaa. Less chance of records being lost if its on a lot of computers.

    • Re:P2P (Score:2, Insightful)

      by pyite ( 140350 )
      This poses an interesting thought in my mind. Now, people aren't going to download files they won't want to host. However, a viable P2P business could be created with MP3 license fees being paid for by corporations who pay for distributed storage. Basically, your P2P archive would be a big data archive of some sort and you could export data you have privileges to. Your total download "credits" would be determined by how much other data, or parity data for that matter, you choose to host.

      • Re:P2P (Score:3, Interesting)

        by mrtorrent ( 598803 )
        > However, a viable P2P business could be created with MP3 license fees being paid for by corporations who pay for distributed storage. Basically, your P2P archive would be a big data archive of some sort and you could export data you have privileges to.
        ---
        Interesting idea, but a few big problems:
        1) It's unreliable storage, even despite its redundancy. Unreliable in terms of it staying intact (hard drives get reformatted, things get accidently deleted, etc.) and in terms of connectivity (people disconnect from the internet, have network troubles, etc.).
        2) If the encryption of the privilege system is broken, quite a few people will have access to the data, a possibility which means that no company will be interested in storing any relevant information via distributed storage.
        3) Hard drives are pretty cheap nowadays.

        The only way I could see this possibly being used is by NASA or some organization that has something on the order of a few terabytes of data and figures that it might as well make it as reduntant as possible, for posterity and interested parties, and all that jazz (speaking of which, go see the movie version of Chicago if you haven't yet, it turned out great).

        • Re:P2P (Score:2, Funny)

          by pyite ( 140350 )
          I agree with points one and three. However, I think point two is rather moot. We have encryption systems that cannot be realistically broken without quantum computing (Triple-DES, and even better, AES). Combine that with a lot of the data would be parity data for redundancy, no one would have a clue what they are storing.
      • Wow, that's actually a good idea... Have some sort of secure P2P network, like the pay version of Kazaa, with MP3's approved to be on the system. If you don't want to pay for music, you have to serve out to 5 other MP3s you have for each one you download. The MP3's cost 10 cents to download each, the cost of which is split 9c to musicians / producers / creators and 1c to the Kazaa hydra. As wired (I believe) estimated the bandwidth cost of an MP3 download to be 3c, and bands (who ultimately pay the production cost of the albums anyway) are lucky to see 50c per album, this would make more money all around. Even the freeloaders downloading MP3's would make up for it by providing a valuable service to the industry, and making them money. This would encourage people who wanted free music to spend more money, get more and more variety of music, and serve more to the community, at which point the cost drops significantly: in short, encouraging more than 10% of the population to share, and more than 1% of the population to supernode. Everyone gets paid, a real, honest distribution system exists... if we can convince enough artists to join in the system, and can overcome a few technical hurdles (along with aggregate billing), we'll be happy, productive, musical, and profitable to the tune of 7c per download. You could even return to the highly efficient Napster network model, as you wouldn't be at risk of being litigated out of existence.

        ...Nah. Let's go feed the dinosaurs. "Here Here are your teeth, Mr. Bertelsmann. Oh look, you are chewing so well today!"

        - C

        • Re:P2P (Score:2, Insightful)

          by deadsaijinx* ( 637410 )
          okay, a few problems bot not too bad of an idea:

          1. i can already get the files i want without paying even one cent, so what incentive do i have.
          2. the music industry is still profitable, so music will still be produced so what incentive do i have to pay. it will exist even if i dont.
          3. the music industry doesnt see that as very profitable. thats why they charge $20 a cd. about 100years ago, Henry Ford leared that making a small amount of profit on a large amount products equals a helluvalot more cash than lots of prof on little prod. It seems that the music industry is a bit behind the times.
          4. Leechers - i hate - you hate them - they dont want to share songs in order to get songs. personally, i share well over 1,000 files and wish others would open up their bandwidth and files, but thats a discussion for another day. really, leechers are the people who most use p2p anywho so this idea of share and share alike doesnt work out too well...

          and on that note i was dling a file off of someone on kazaa with the username of "theonlypersonsharing" ... wow, i know that feeling.

          • Re:P2P (Score:3, Informative)

            by cgenman ( 325138 )
            1. The incentive is to do the right thing. There are still a lot of people out there who believe stealing music is at its heart wrong. I know I do, and I think most Kazaa people do too. But I also think that we do this to protest the current state of the music industry. All of the musicians I know still charge for their music, yet except for one, they all have put their own files on a P2P network.

            2. According to RIAA figures, only 1 in 10 bands it has hand-signed and selected is profitable. What they forget to mention, leaving you to connect the dots yourself, is that "profitable" means that they made money above and beyond recoupable costs. The Distributing companies wind up eating some costs, but so far the band has made *nothing at all.* Under such circumstances, it would be a lot better to make 50c per album straight than nothing at all. Perhaps we should sell album downloads at 1.00 each, just to make sure the rate is higher than the industry's payout for extremely successful acts?

            3. The recording companies are very profitable. The artists are not. There are a lot of artists out there, which loweres their bargining position, but they are the ones who actually make music. The recording companies sell acts: they have no capacity to make music. You don't really need them to get onboard... if I could find DJ Entropy on a paid Kazaa system, why would I want the latest scruffy guitar punk ripoff band?* It would be good for selection to have labels onboard, but it would also be great for quality to have just indies.

            Of course, Entropy gives away his albums on his home page, [warblevx.net] which is one of many reasons why I go out of my way to pay to see him live.

            4. This system would give leechers a choice: you can be free or you can be a leech, but you can't be both. I think this choice will satisfy most people. And while it may drive away some of the leeches... isn't that the point? Doesn't that make your network all the better to be a part of?

            Anyway, I think this could really work. The only downside I can see is having more sharers than downloaders, as I tend to think that more people would rather have free music legally while uploading than pay to legally download music while leeching. Of course, many of these people don't have jobs and / or credit cards, so I don't fault them.

            More ideas?

            *This is not to rile against scruffy guitar punk ripoff bands... this is to rile against the scruffy guitar punk ripoff bands who have carefully manicured holes cut in CK shirts and who have an equally manicured sound to appeal to this generation youth extremism with the previous generation of musical voice knockoff.

    • P2P as archive (Score:5, Insightful)

      by commodoresloat ( 172735 ) on Tuesday January 28, 2003 @02:32AM (#5172810)
      Not sure why that was modded funny, though I suppose there is some sweet irony there. But rarely does anyone talk about the value of p2p as an archive. In the heyday of napster I downloaded a bunch of speeches, stuff that wasn't easy to find, black nationalist stuff from the 60s, moon landing recordings, lectures, and so forth. But I rarely see that kind of stuff on gnutella when I look for it, and I wish it was still there. When I look for music, it's always easy to find the popular stuff, but I rarely find much of the more obscure stuff I want to find. It's ironic that the death of napster didn't stop what the RIAA wanted stopped - the large-scale trading of their big selling hits - but it did stop the more legitimate use of p2p to give people access to a relatively comprehensive archive of information. It's disgraceful that the RIAA's greed and inflated sense of self-importance would stand in the way of such a significant advancement in the human sciences. And it's pathetic that the rest of the human species is enabling what amounts to the wholesale theft of human history and culture! In ancient times, great advances in knowledge were stopped by the forces of irrationality and superstition. Today we look back and chuckle about how primitive we were then. But today we do the same thing, vilifying our visionaries as thieves instead of heretics. And we do it to mollify greed and ego rather than superstition.

      On a side note, I think the ego thing is huge for the RIAA and their cohorts. Their arrogance is megalomaniacal! I mean come on, RIAA, I don't want to download your precious britney spears crap that you spend the rest of your time shoving down my throat anyway. If I wanted that shit I could go to a freakin record store. And it's not like I can't hear it for free on the radio!

      No, the beauty and significance of Napster in its prime -- a truly unfettered p2p network -- was not that kids could get for free the stuff that they continued to spend millions on through t-shirts, concerts, etc. It was the fact that at any time, you could be in a conversation about the blues and mention Ethyl Waters or Ida Fox, and you were just a few clicks away from being able to actually listen to the songs you probably wouldn't even be able to find at a record store if you tried. Imagine being able to do that with the library of congress! Or all of film history! Yes, it's true, the entertainment companies will no longer be able to rely on big multimillion dollar stars in order to retain their domination of public consciousness, but is that a bad thing? Think about it.

  • Mickey Hart and Save Our Sounds (Score:5, Informative)

    by pyite ( 140350 ) on Monday January 27, 2003 @07:38PM (#5170784)
    Mickey Hart of Grateful Dead fame has had a big part in this effort. It's a real noble movement they're participating in. Everyone thinks history is always written and suddenly people realized that we have the technology to make it more. Read more about his involvement and Save our Sounds here [mickeyhart.net].

  • Off-site backup? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by kwoo ( 641864 ) <kjwcode@g[ ]l.com ['mai' in gap]> on Monday January 27, 2003 @07:42PM (#5170814) Homepage Journal

    It's obviously a good idea to fortify the storage site, but what kind of arrangements will they have for off-site backup?

    If these are the most important recordings, it would be a tragic loss to have a natural disaster or similar event destroy what may be the only complete recordings.

    • Re:Off-site backup? (Score:5, Informative)

      by ragnar ( 3268 ) on Monday January 27, 2003 @09:49PM (#5171569) Homepage
      The facility is a former military building which is built into the side of a small mountain (more of a hill if you ask me). The first layer of protection is pretty good. It is referred to as a digital vault of sorts.

      At this stage of the planning there isn't a much concrete discussion about backup, not because it won't be needed, but rather because the technology is a moving target. If memory serves right, they hope to open the facility in about 3 years. Backups are no doubt on the integration plan, but a lot of the architecture is still in a planning phase.

      (disclaimer: I work on this project at the Library of Congress)

      • Re:Off-site backup? (Score:3, Informative)

        by vrmlguy ( 120854 )
        I'm curious about how the files are organized. EMC [emc.com] has an interesting product [emc.com] supporting "Content Addressed Storage" (not to be confused with content addressable memory, for you CS geeks). The idea is that you store so-called static content (image, audio, video, etc) and you get back a ticket, which is a cryptographic signature. To retreive the content, you present the ticket. You can then re-compute the signature yourself to ensure that no one's changed the file when you weren't looking. (For example, another poster inquired about editing cat-calls from presidential speeches. This would make it obvious if that were to happen.)

        (disclaimer: I work for EMC. In spite of that, I would love to see an open-source implementation of the APIs, as it would encourage greater adoption of the technology, and I feel that my employer could do quite well providing high-performance solutions for high-end users. Here [zdnet.com] is a review of the technology.)

        • Re:Off-site backup? (Score:3, Informative)

          by ragnar ( 3268 )
          I don't know specifics, but I wouldn't be surprised if EMC wasn't on the discussion table. Currently we use an MD5 hash to maintain integrity, but as we all know even that relies on the integrity of the person who works with the file prior to hashing. ;) We sometimes joke about preserving our voices or self-images for all posterity, but in reality no one would do it.

          Thanks for making the suggestion. I don't personally have any decision making power in this (I'm just developing software for metadata capture) but I'm glad people find it interesting.
      • The facility is a former military building which is built into the side of a small mountain (more of a hill if you ask me). The first layer of protection is pretty good.

        So, would it be a former military building because the military realized it could be dug up by a real attack? How many backups is enough against such an attack? How is this better than just making the information free to copy? If it's worth preserving, it should be free.

    • Hey, I'd be happy to back some of it up on my hard drives. With apache and kazaa servers running, they can get anything quickly anytime they need it. I'm sure that there are lots of others who would volunteer a couple of GB to the effort.

    • Which created lots of treasured content, then wiped over the video tapes to save money by reusing them, and stored original films in a room with a leaky roof and pools of water on the floor.

  • the recording. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Joe the Lesser ( 533425 ) on Monday January 27, 2003 @07:42PM (#5170817) Homepage Journal
    'The Library of Congress has been collecting recordings for almost 100 years, the first being a recording of a speech by German Emperor Wilhelm II.'

    The speech apparently went as follows:
    Emperor: My dog has no nose.
    Crowd: 'How does it smell'?
    Emperor: Awful.
    • shit that i can't find this right now, i'd actually be quite interested in hearing that speech.

      not to mention any details on how it was recorded.

      off /. to google ...
      • He's referring to Monty Python joke where they explain how the Brits won world war 2 by developing a joke so funny it killed people. In response, the Germans tried to develop a similar joke. To illustrate this, they had stock footage of Hitler delivering a speech with the "my dog's got no nose" joke written as the subtitles. Just in case you were confused and thought he was serious.
    • The reply.

      Two peanuts were walking down the sidewalk. One of them was assaulted.

      peanut.
  • They can use MAS [mediaappli...server.net] to serve the info. (It's a new open source project worth checking out. They just made their first release.)
  • Not much use to having this stuff in archive, if it's all going to be copyright in the next 10 years...
  • If you're into live music, archive.org has been amassing an enormous collection of live concerts in SHN (and FLAC) format for about 6 months now. If you're bored at work (or home) and have a ton of bandwidth, go here [archive.org].

    - A.P.

  • NPR All Things Considered this afternoon (Score:4, Informative)

    by yet another coward ( 510 ) <yacoward@@@yahoo...com> on Monday January 27, 2003 @07:49PM (#5170866)
    I heard a piece, including some sound clips, this afternoon on ATC. The story and a few selections are here [npr.org]. It is an excellent project. The copyright limitations are disappointing, however.

  • Mount Pony, Culpeper, VA (Score:5, Interesting)

    by sulli ( 195030 ) on Monday January 27, 2003 @07:49PM (#5170870) Journal
    This site is a former bunker for the Federal Reserve Board [fas.org] and once held $1 billion in cash in case of a nuclear attack. It was transferred to the LoC in 1997. (Presumably this cash is now held elsewhere.)
    • Thats really interesting.
      It makes me wonder what the actual post-nuclear plan was. They're storing 1 Billion in 'Currency' to restart the American economy after a nuclear war.

      Seems to imply they were thinking ahead far enough to realize that in a post-war world, it wouldn't be easy to print the cash, but doesn't really get that if everything were destroyed, a billion in cash would be pretty useless.

      Unless, of course, they were storing 1 billion in rubles.

      It would be interesting to see that 'restart the economy' plan. We could use one.
    • (Presumably this cash is now held elsewhere.)

      Bush: Hey Greenspan, what ever happened to that cash we were storing on the side of a mountain somewhere?

      Greenspan: Hmmmm... (checking pockets) .... sorry, Sir, I guess I must have left it in my other pants.

  • "This sounds like a collection which will become more valuable as more people have access to the actual content of the collections."

    The problem is. . . then it becomes priceless. (Which for anyone not paying attention--we can't afford :( )
  • Anyone know of any small, portable, digital recorders availible that can grab high-quality audio to a CF card?

    Some kind of hybrid between those little digital recorders with shitty (or none at all) interfaces to a computer and a MiniDisc recorder. Something smaller than a MiniDisc would be better. Like an MP3 player, but a recorder - that will record either straight to a ".wav like format", or ogg or whatever - selectable bitrate, clean audio. Stereo. Small.

    Anyone, anyone??

  • What it used to be (Score:5, Informative)

    by Alegato ( 141094 ) <alegato@@@netscape...net> on Monday January 27, 2003 @07:57PM (#5170918)
    I live near and work even closer to this very interesting facility. It used to be the Federal Reserve System's Communications and Research Center (a pretty important part of the Federal Reserve System), and it also served as an emergency "continuity of government facility" at one time. Check these links for your browsing pleasure (links have pictures, Google search "Culpeper Federal Reserve" gives lots of info)

    Link1 [brook.edu]

    Link2 [culpepper.com]

    Link3 [fas.org]

  • Digitalize it ! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by glMatrixMode ( 631669 ) on Monday January 27, 2003 @07:57PM (#5170923)
    Store recordings in a fortress, and you'll preserve them for 100 years.
    Digitalize and upload them, and they'll live as long as you have a running server.

    Besides, a recording is more useful on the net than in a mountain.

    • Re:Digitalize it ! (Score:2, Informative)

      by kaaphi ( 571022 )
      They're in the process of doing this right now. It's a joint project between the smithsonian and the library of congress called Save our Sounds. They have a webpage here [saveoursounds.org].

  • Dispatches from the Future (Score:5, Funny)

    by Tackhead ( 54550 ) on Monday January 27, 2003 @07:58PM (#5170926)
    > To that end, the library's extensive collection of recordings and photos will soon be moved to a massive 41-acre complex built into the side of a mountain in Culpeper, Virginia. When construction on the site is completed - in about three years - anything stored in Culpeper should be available via computer at the library's Madison Building on Capitol Hill.

    January 27, 2006 - President Stallman and Gnu/FBI announce arrest and detention of terrorist group believed affiliated with Hilary Rosen

    Giving public thanks to the constant vigilance on the part of tens of thousands of GNUTIA (Gnu's Not Total Information Awareness) server operators, President Stallman announced the disruption of a terrorist plot, allegedly involving weapons of mass destruction and notorious fugitive from justice, Hilary Rosen.

    In his 2006 State of the Onion Speech, President Stallman announced:

    "Since her departure from RIAA in 2003, Ms. Rosen and her band of followers have become increasingly militant in their outlook, and increasingly violent in their activities against anyone listening to audio recordings without payment of ransom to members of the RIAA cartel.

    Starting with the KazaaSlammer worm attack of 2004, and then escalating to physical violence with the attempted truck bombing attempts against our allies in Vanatu in 2005, we knew the completion of the Culpeper complex would be a target of significant terrorist activity from the more extreme elements of the recording industry.

    In December 2005, GNH (Gnu's Not HomeSec) officials working under auspices of GNUTIA, became aware that individuals affiliated with Ms. Rosen had attempted, or were attempting, to acquire weapons of mass destruction from deposed Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein, and that they intended to use such weapons against the 41-acre complex of rare recordings at Culpeper. I am pleased to announce today that these plans have been foiled...

    ...and it's still called GNU/Linux, and that that law was passed for a damn good reason, no matter what the First Amendment or the Supreme Court says. God Bless America."

    Responding after the President's remarks, Mr. Fritz Hollings, (appointed RIAA head after losing his seat in the GNU/Linux electoral victory of 2004), had this to say:

    "Although we in RIAA have always disassociated ourselves from the actions against music listeners associated with certain more radical elements of our industry, but this ought to serve as a warning to the current administration that the longer the American people continue to listen to music without payment of protection money to RIAA, the more likely it is that such desperate acts will continue.

    The occupation of Culpeper and the opening of public access to these recordings is nothing but a slap in the face to those of us so brutally oppressed. Out of cultural respect to us, we remind you of the root cause of terrorism - your failure to pay royalties to us whenever you even think about music.

    What happened to Ms. Rosen after her departure from RIAA is a tragedy. Please - pay us lots of money, and help break the cycle of violence."

  • sound bites of Dan Quayle's fuck-ups [xmission.com]?

    I mean - you cannot deny the man's contributions! <snort/>

  • It is interesting that when the Library of Congress uses the word 'protected' in regards to a sound recording they mean exactly the opposite of what the RIAA means when they use the same word.
    I like the LOC's meaning better.
    • It is interesting that when the Library of Congress uses the word 'protected' in regards to a sound recording they mean exactly the opposite of what the RIAA means when they use the same word.
      I like the LOC's meaning better.

      If you don't have the ability to archive and share the works with your friends, the two meanings are identical and the works will perish.

  • Creating digital sound files (Score:3, Interesting)

    by sakeneko ( 447402 ) on Monday January 27, 2003 @08:08PM (#5170981) Homepage Journal

    I'd like to see a volunteer group turn this historical treasure trove into digital sound files and put them on DVD or optical media for safekeeping. Many of the recordings are on magnetic tape or other media that deteriorate over time, sometimes quickly.

    The expensive part would be getting access to the necessary equipment to play the original recordings. Lots of geeks have DVD burners.

    • Maybe you should talk to these [archive.org] people. They've got 30TB of copyright clear music and have as their goal "universal access to human knowledge".
    • I think that is precisely the notion of the project, to digitize and preserve these media for long term storage. The biggest challenge (for those of us working on it) is how to choose a media that is transferable and will last. That said, part of the strategy is to encode different levels of quality (Master, Service High and Service Low). This may range from a 96kHz x 24bit WAV to a 256kbs mp3.

      It helps a little to understand the raw size of some of this stuff though. For example, a 14 minute audio recording at 96kHz and 24 bits takes up a little over 800mb. DVD storage is simply too small. Most likely the storage will be a massive NAS on the order of which has never been built before.

      The article doesn't talk about it, but part of the whole digitization process is the capture of metadata. Catalogers at the Library enter descriptive metadata about the films, recordings and whatnot according to the METS XML standard [loc.gov]. Although it would be great to get some volunteer help, the rules for cataloging are arcane and confusing at best. ;) I say this with awe and respect for co-workers who do a great job at it.

      (disclaimer: I am a member of the Library team who develops software for the project)

  • The real thing? (Score:4, Funny)

    by gokubi ( 413425 ) on Monday January 27, 2003 @08:08PM (#5170982) Homepage
    Too bad 15 acres of that is going to be taken up with Coke jingles [cnn.com].
    • Interesting. I wonder if they are giving the company's older ads to the LoC too, or if they are quietly burying them? Someone I know did research in the Coca-Cola archive for a documentary; apparently they are extremely careful about what they let anyone access and they are pretty hush-hush about their history. Everyone knows it used to have cocaine in it until about 1903; what's funny is it used to be an alcoholic beverage that was mixed with cocaine, which was apparently advertised as a "feel-good" drink, something that got you high. This changed in response to the temperance movement, and they took the alcohol out, left the cocaine in, added gotu kola, and billed it as a "temperance drink." Of course, you won't see this in any documentaries about Coke.... I don't imagine they'll be donating many ads from that period to the LoC, either.

  • Presidential speeches? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by MrEd ( 60684 ) <[tonedog] [at] [hailmail.net]> on Monday January 27, 2003 @08:09PM (#5170988)
    I wonder if they'll dub out all the booing and catcalling during W. Bush's speeches in the immediate aftermath of the Enron scandal? They removed them in the typewritten transcripts, as well as corrected some of his more shameful grammar and pronunciation. Re-writing history, without even waiting more than a few minutes! Wow.


    I apologise for not providing a link as I'm at work right now and can't post long. Maybe some other kind reader will?

    • Re:Presidential speeches? (Score:3, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Can they go back and edit the recordings to make it seem like Clinton knows the definition of "is"?

    • Link?

      Washington Post [washingtonpost.com]

    • They also tried to change the transcript when Ari Fleisher said Americans better "watch what they say [commondreams.org]."
  • I just hope that f(ree)s(oftware)s(ong) [gnu.org] and s(teve)b(almer)s(ong) [iuma.com] won't be included.
  • The library's extensive collection of recordings and photos will soon be moved to a massive 41-acre complex built into the side of a mountain

    Sounds like the federal government is taking lessons from the mormon church in Salt Lake City. (All of the Mormon Church [lds.org] Geneology records are entoumbed in a Mountain in Big Cotton Wood Canyon in Salt Lake City, and up by McCall Idaho. They do it because of the fact that if the Apocolypse ever happens there are records.

    The government must know somthing we dont...

  • Sorry, bit of a tangent. This subject header reminded me of one of my favourite films, A Matter of Life and Death [imdb.com].

    Trying not to ruin the film - at one point a trial takes place with an American prosecuter from the War of Independence versus a British doctor defender from World War II. The prosecutor argues that no American could possibly live in Britain, and to prove it he produces a radio on which the most boring cricket commentary known to man is playing, which he declares to be "The Voice of England". The Briton's defence? He produces a radio playing 40s American Blues, "Sho shoooo, baby", which he declares to be "The Voice of America". The prosecuter looks downcast and confesses he doesn't understand a word of it, to which the Briton replies neither does he.

    Ah well, perhaps you have to see things in order for it to be funny. But if you're interested, I wholeheartedly recommand A Matter of Life and Death to anyone that's a fan of quality filmaking

    Cheers,
    Ian

  • British Pathe has digitized their old newsreels (Score:3, Interesting)

    by bobbv ( 162542 ) on Monday January 27, 2003 @09:00PM (#5171267)
    British Pathe [britishpathe.com] has digitized and made public a huge quantity of their newsreels online, starting with the 1890s and going to 1970. Watch nearly a century of riots, wars and cheezy human interest stories on pretty much every topic. Type in "computer" and see the history of computers, as told in short chunks with dramatic voiceover.

  • Ironic (Score:3, Insightful)

    by retro128 ( 318602 ) on Monday January 27, 2003 @09:03PM (#5171281)
    Federal law requires that any copyrighted sound must be stored at the library.

    Is this the same government who has been busy giving god-like status to content creators? I can just see somebody suing the LoC to keep their content away from eyes/ears who aren't paying for it. But of course, they may let it slide if they put DRM on the content. Maybe. If they're in a good mood. Oh, but wait....

    "We have every format you can imagine and every problem with every format," said Michael Taft, who helps run the program. "What we have to do is find a way of taking sound off of all of these different media and storing them as computer files in such a way that they will be readable and accessible not just today, but 100, 200 years from now."

    "I'm sorry sir, but that part of history has been lost due to money grubbing companies who revoked our playback key (or they went out of business, the timed key is lost because it can no longer be renewed, and nobody knows what format the file is stored in), and the guy who tried to crack the file is currently serving a 500 year prison term for attempted circumvention. Have a nice day!"

  • Also on the History Channel (Score:5, Interesting)

    by sakusha ( 441986 ) on Monday January 27, 2003 @09:06PM (#5171300)
    About a week or two ago, I saw a documentary on The History Channel about this exact project. I was rather surprised to see them digitizing audio on Win95 workstations with a few primitive apps. These guys seriously need technological help. But the real focus here is on analog. I cringed as I saw historic reel-to-reel tapes shred when played, I was even more appalled when I saw vinyl-on-aluminum records that the vinyl popped off when he took it out of the sleeve. He said "oops, this album is ruined." They discard damaged vinyl like that, but I think they're screwing up. There are already laser scanners that can read the grooves optically, all you have to do is keep ALL the pieces and put them on a backing in the correct position, the laser will scan off the grooves and you can edit out the pops in postproduction.
    But ultimately this is the same old conservation issue. Do you try to capture the deteriorating tapes and records NOW, or do you let them deteriorate further in hopes that a miracle solution will appear before they are completely destroyed? There is no good answer.
    • I assume your referring to the "Save our Sounds" documentary, which I also watched (Thanks Tivo!).

      Good observation on the vinyl... these guys - http://www.elpj.com/ - make a Laser Turntable which I agree would probably be a much much better way to record some of the more brittle recorders.

      I don't think they're screwing up though. Everyone interviewed seemed like they cared a lot about what they do and respected the job they've been assigned. That one guy was doing some amazing shit with the wax cylinders.

      I highly suggest everyone watch this special if it comes back on TV Anytime soon. On Tivo I found it under "Save our Sounds" in the Special Delivery section of TivoLution magazine.
      • I just meant they're screwing up when they toss out ANYTHING. You never know what kind of technology will come up, like the laser scanners. But they're just tossing out the damaged disks. And I worried when I heard at what a low data rate they're recording the preservation tracks. Come on, in the future nobody will want 96k mp3s, they'll want much higher uncompressed data rates, to suck every bit of nuance out of the old data, because the originals will be long gone. But I suppose that's the best they can do with win98 computers for digitizing.
        • 96k mp3? What show were you watching? I specifically remember them saving them in "uncompressed format" at either 44khz or 96khz in RAW Wav.

          I wish people would stop knocking windows for this application to. You're simply recording RAW WAVs. You don't need a damn linux workstation to do this (sure it might be a bit more stable).

          For anyone who missed the show, the basic mission protocol these guys were following is:

          Capture the brittlest/most endanger recordings (those that are in danger of falling apart).
          Capture these unaltered, via Turntable/wax cylinder/whatever and pipe into a computer and save as a WAV.
          No DSP processing, no noise reduction.

          The only piece of vinyl I remember them throwing out on that show was one where the guy took it out of the envelope and the aceate layer had completely fallen off the platter of the LP. I don't care what kind of technology gets introduced, there's no way you're going to restore paper-thin aceate material so brittle it falls apart when you even touch it.

          So now that we're both finished sharing our differing recollections of the show, you at leasst liked the show right? I did!
  • This project puts nothing online and its not even clear how much audio it will include, the language on the site makes it sound small. Demand that your government make the LOC put all public domain material it has online. Accept nothing less.

  • I like this one... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by houseofmore ( 313324 ) on Monday January 27, 2003 @10:00PM (#5171646) Homepage
    Sung to the tune of "If You're Happy And You Know It, Clap Your Hands" If you cannot find Osama, bomb Iraq. If the markets are a drama, bomb Iraq. If the terrorists are frisky, Pakistan is looking shifty, North Korea is too risky, Bomb Iraq. If we have no allies with us, bomb Iraq. If we think someone has dissed us, bomb Iraq. So to hell with the inspections, Let's look tough for the elections, Close your mind and take directions, Bomb Iraq. It's "pre-emptive non-aggression", bomb Iraq. Let's prevent this mass destruction, bomb Iraq. They've got weapons we can't see, And that's good enough for me 'Cos it's all the proof I need Bomb Iraq. If you never were elected, bomb Iraq. If your mood is quite dejected, bomb Iraq. If you think Saddam's gone mad, With the weapons that he had, (And he tried to kill your dad), Bomb Iraq. If your corporate fraud is growin', bomb Iraq. If your ties to it are showin', bomb Iraq. If your politics are sleazy, And hiding that ain't easy, And your manhood's getting queasy, Bomb Iraq. Fall in line and follow orders, bomb Iraq. For our might knows not our borders, bomb Iraq. Disagree? We'll call it treason, Let's make war not love this season, Even if we have no reason, Bomb Iraq.
  • Our Boston Public Library, the so called Massachusetts Library
    of Last Recourse, deflects people interested in our Sound Archives collections.
    Of interest are the recordings of now defunct local broadcasters.
    Shelf lists are public record, but BPL has
    violated state freedom of information principles!

    See also
    Weblog. Guide to Problematical Library Use. Boston Public Library.

    Stories
    http://GuideToProblematicalLibraryUse.WebLogs.com/ stories [weblogs.com]

    Updates
    http://GuideToProblematicalLibraryUse.WebLogs.com [weblogs.com]
    http://zork.net/~dsaklad [zork.net]
  • If they want to preserve these historical sounds for all time, the best thing they could do would be to put them online. I've collected many historical speeches and news broadcasts on p2p systems and would love a chance to listen to some of these, but fat chance of that happening. Thank God these soulds will be safely preserved in a big concrete room under a lawn, where nobody will ever be able to hear them again.
  • to whatever's been digitized. Would it be too much to ask that whatever is available, be made available in open formats? How about requesting that the search technology be made public?


    Can FOIA do anything like this?

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