Broadband over Powerlines 215
scubacuda writes "Today's Bottom Line links to an article on Internet-over-powerline technology. St. Louis-based Ameren Corp and other utilities are testing are testing the technology, and, according to the article, "many consider it increasingly viable." Proponents claim the powergrid technology will bolster broadband competition, lower consumer prices and bridge the digital divide in rural areas. Skeptics say that few tests prove its financial and technical viability. Kludge, panacea, or hoax? (I'd think it was a total crock had I not personally known someone working in India with a PCL company)"
Leakage (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Leakage (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Leakage (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Leakage (Score:2, Insightful)
I think another major concern was that PCL, because of operating around 30 MHz, might interfere with existing networks, such as military, shipping and air traffic communication networks. Some shortwave radio amateurs also claimed their hobby might get crushed if PLC become widespread.
Re:Leakage (Score:2)
The 27/40 MHz bands don't have the bandwidth you need (several MHz) for "broadband" connections.
Re:Leakage (Score:5, Insightful)
Honestly, the technology could work quite well, but I think the power companies need to provide a hybrid solution. Run fiber down to the street transformers, then piggy back onto the powerline from there. Unfortunately, this solution still leaves the rual customer out in the snow, but leakage is too hard to fight and using relay devices I see as a nightmare.
Sure the solution won't benifit or swoon the rual types, but it would provide an alternative for the rest. It's bigger than just TCP/IP. Just like the cable companies can now provice a viable phone service and phone companies can provide internet service, a power company, via powerline technology could provice phone and internet (tv broadcast would be a stretch under the current technology). The speed would be slightly less and many high speed users would balk, but imagine if all computers made started incorporating powerline technology. Now imagine all corded phones having powerline technology. The ease of use and simplification of home wiring would be VERY appealing for the average home user.
I feel powerline technology SHOULD be the future for ALL residential broadband. Maybe the delivery of signal could differ (fiber, cable, dish,
Is this a dream? For years....yes! But the powerline technology is NOT the technology it was 5 years ago. It's very different and if slightly interested, you owe it to yourself to read up on it. I'll admit the technology is fair now at 14Mbps, but that's plenty for residential use. If that gets upped to 100+Mbps, then cable over powerline may be an option.
The big competition could be moved outside the home. How the content is delivered would be where the competition would be, but at least internal to the home, everything could be standarized.
April Fools (Score:3)
Bet they're embarassed. This isn't the first I've heard of this, it keeps popping up, energis were planning it in the UK in the late 90s but no-one seems to have cracked a proper commercial solution.
And even if they do, there's still quite large startup costs.
Oh yeah? (Score:3, Informative)
Oh. I guess my 10 megabits a second from the local power company is just a hoax, then. Strange, it seems to work just fine...
In Sollentuna, Sweden [sollentuna.se], the local energy company [sollentunaenergi.se] is supplying broadband to apartments and even to ordinary houses. Yes, you read me right: these guys are drawing fiber to single-family houses at affordable cost, then lighting them up with 100 Mbits a second.
OTOH, there's nothing said about how they carry the TCP/IP. In my imagination, it's been fiber bundled with power lines. That's probably more economical than trying to piggyback..
your talking about something different (Score:3, Informative)
Re:your talking about something different (Score:2)
I.e - Totally fscking useless for the purpose at hand. In the majority of places they have power lines. As may these days might have phone lines but DSL technology isn't the answer for range reasons.
What this is about is effectively a "DSL for power lines". Using the EXISITNG lines to do something cool.
(Obviously the parent poster knew this, but I felt it was more a reply to him than the grandparent poster)
Re:April Fools (Score:1)
Re:Quote... (Score:2)
A slight problem.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:A slight problem.... (Score:5, Funny)
Now THAT'S extreme programming
Re:A slight problem.... (Score:1)
Re:A slight problem.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Hopefully by the time such a surge gets thru the power line fuses, your house fuses, and your UPS/surge unit (you DO have your computers on surge protectors, don't you??) it's attenuated down to something that won't fry the hardware. But what about a wall-to-modem connection? I know two people who had systems fried (modem caught on fire in one box) by lightning strikes on telephone poles feeding down the phone line, so don't tell me it can't happen.
Not to mention the high level of electrical noise -- what's that going to do to components?
[Yes, I have similar concerns about using house wiring for networking. No one has yet shown me why I'm just being paranoid.]
Proponents Claim.... (Score:1, Offtopic)
Are we supposed to believe this? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Are we supposed to believe this? (Score:3, Insightful)
They can keep their drivelous TV. I want to know why charter just cut my so-ho account off at the knees without telling me (went from 768K to 128K upstream - and I was promised 1.0M upstream initially).
now they're trying to "guide" me into a commercial plan with less speed at twice the cost.
unfortunately, dsl, which isn't even available in my area yet, is little better.
as for the power line stuff, i'm all for any improvements that bring competition to the broadband market. it's two-thousand-and-fucking-three and there still isn't reasonably-priced broadband competition in my area?
It's the other way around! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:It's the other way around! (Score:1, Offtopic)
Re:It's the other way around! (Score:2)
It's injected either by a Cisco switch or in my case by a little adapter at the other end.
Very handy to only run one wire under the carpet.
"Interesting"? (Score:5, Funny)
I wonder what RFCs the moderators are smoking.
Yeah, nice one! (Score:3, Informative)
Cool - you got '+5' for an april fool's joke ... :-)
Re:Yeah, nice one! (Score:2)
Re:It's the other way around! (Score:2)
IMHO, if this works, it'll be great... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:IMHO, if this works, it'll be great... (Score:5, Insightful)
There are dial up services for $9.95, some can be found for $5/month. And, believe it or not, there are also free ones (and you thought YOU had problems with popup ads!).
I don't believe that the $20/month is causing "the digital divide" as you call it. However, I do believe there is a digital divide. I just don't think it's the $20/month causing it.
I would challenge anyone to find a survey of only people who don't have internet access, who live in the USA, and who aren't homeless (that is, ruling out the people who have bigger problems). I'll bet you find the answers don't reflect that, and I'll bet the answers don't even jive with reality.
One can claim that $20/month keeps them off the net, but does that same person have a cell phone, or premium cable with HBO and Showtime, or dual phone lines... Or anything else that is billed monthly for a ballpark $20/month that would prove they COULD afford it?
My guess is the "digital divide" is primarily a mental one. The people on the non-tech side of the digital divide are (IMHO) people who don't know how to use computers in the first place. And, a vast majority of those people will be completely reluctant to admit it, and will claim ANY excuse to avoid admitting that they are not comfortable using a computer in the first place.
All this smoke about broadband over powerlines will not change that.
It's about access, not price (Score:3, Insightful)
With the drop in PC prices and the drop in ISP prices that's not an issue as much anymore. You don't need a 2.6 ghz rig with a gig of RAM to surf the Web, send e-mail or exchange files (NOTE: ANY ATTEMPT TO EXCHANGE MUSIC OR MOVIES WILL END WITH RABID CYBERNETIC SQUIRRELS SENT BY THE MP/RI/AA DEVOURING YOU)
The divide now is one of high-speed access. I work with computers for a living so the technological midget theory is out the window. Money is not a big issue. What is I have ZERO real options for high-speed access. With ISDN not only do they want a boatload of cash, they also want my name signed in blood on a long-term contract. DSL, too far. Satellite, hahahaaha. Cable, too far.
Let's face it. A modem connection, particularly a 26.4 kbps connection like the one that runs across my barbed-wire phone lines, just doesn't cut it anymore.
As more applications go online and Web sites continue to bloat I find myself sitting here drumming my fingers waiting. If they can pipe in some bandwidth over those big fat wires that already come into my house great. At this point I'll take just about anything..
Re:It's about access, not price (Score:2)
I'm in the same situation as you, along with nearly all of rural California (and probably most of the American midwest -- city dwellers really have NO concept of how far apart everything is in those areas -- some farm areas finally got electricity in the 1970s, and still have no landline phone service). Here -- Los Angeles is less than 50 miles away, yet there is not and may never be any broadband for rural customers in north L.A. County, at least not DSL or cable. Fixed wireless, maybe, someday...
Satellite? Yeah, at $600 up front and $80/month. THAT is well out of reasonable pricing for most people.
Re:IMHO, if this works, it'll be great... (Score:3, Insightful)
$9/mo on a $200 pc is nogo (Score:2)
A $9 a month isp needs Windows.
In short if you have a $200 pc your using $20 isp service.
If your paying $9/mo your using a $1000 pc.
I must add that people look at $40 a month and think 'to much'.
But for the poor that's the price of dial up.
It's not that they pay anything more we just igore a good chunk of the cost. The phone line.
Many poor don't have a phone eather using a pay phone when they want to make a phone call.
So they add the phone line into the total price.. Even the $9 service becomes $29 in that light.
The power line service will not do it for them. More than likely the powerline service will be $40 a month.
It's easy to see a mental devide when one dose not exsist becouse we can find solutions to other peoples problems that are hard to find and may not work.
I pay $20 a month for cable service. They give it to me at 64k baud. No phone line just cable hardware and my work station.
One reason it won't fly (Score:5, Insightful)
Transmission-line Internet is, IMO, a great idea whose time has come.
But...
I can't see this happening for quite a while, in the US at least. The Baby Bells and the cable monopolies will tie this up in court for years, all the while jacking up their prices to feed their war chests, and Joe User will sit there and shuck out the bucks, completely oblivious to what's going on. Small dialup providers may turn out to be the big winners of such a battle, at least in the short term.
The solution: power transmission utilities need to quietly but quickly deploy, especially in the mentioned rural areas (like where I am) that can't get either cable or xDSL provisioned.
As always, YMMV. This is just my two cents' worth...save up the change for a new monitor or something.
one monopoly vrs another. (Score:2)
The electric companies say, "Ma Bell was my bitch! These little ones are nothing." You think they are going to let a silly cable company stand between them and $20 to $40 a month from everyone? Fat chance, they will be happy to lease out their lines to the dumbest bidder.
It's just like deja vu all over again! (Score:1)
that internet gets everywhere (Score:5, Funny)
I can't be certain, but I'm 90% certain that I have internet all over my pants right now.
Re:that internet gets everywhere (Score:2)
I can't be certain, but I'm 90% certain that I have internet all over my pants right now.
A little too much internet pr0n maybe ?
Initial usage to provide rural links (Score:1)
This has been talked about before (Score:3, Funny)
Re:This has been talked about before (Score:2)
The fact that there are no cities where you can buy such service has always made me suspicious that either (a) the stuff doesn't work in the field the way it does in the lab or (b) the actual cost figures are completely different.
Or were you being sarcastic?
Sure... (Score:2, Interesting)
It's about time (Score:2, Interesting)
Then again, with just a handful of providers in each area, I'm sure they will collude to support prices. You'll be able to get pretty cheap, mostly one way connectivity bursting with ads and spam, and pay a hefty price for a simple two way connection.
Wow, CmdrTaco actually submitted a story! How's the wife doing ya, Taco?
Oh Great (Score:2, Interesting)
Now when a network component fails I can worry about getting medium voltage [hydro.qc.ca] power directly into my motherboard.
Didn't we learn a long time ago to separate power and signal wires?
BTW, here's another version [wired.com] of the story.Re:Oh Great (Score:2)
"They are the bare wires you see at the top of electric poles, running along highways and streets, and in alleys and backyards. Contrary to popular belief, they do not hold the poles up."
Well, damn. If the wires aren't holding them up, what is?
(Anyone else remember Marvin and the building?
Viable technology (Score:3, Interesting)
I think the reason it never moved to other sectors involved both the high price of the required modems and the requirement for a licence (being a communication provider requires a licence, at least here in Israel) which was always a problem to gain here.
Re:Viable technology (Score:1)
Re:Viable technology (Score:2)
You can get 0.5, 1 or 2 Mbps depending on what you're willing to pay and depending on where you live you get connected either via adsl, cable-tv, fibre or powerlines.
Viable technology? Israel a good example? (Score:2)
Yeah, but Israel is kinda small isn't it? How many substations do you have? I was under the impression that you could just about use helioscopes there without too many repeater stations.
Oh well, crank it up if you can.
Crows (Score:5, Funny)
Why? (Score:2)
Re:Why? (Score:2)
Just great ... (Score:1)
Linux? (Score:1)
What could be better then the best OS && the best ISP combined in one, easy to use, low-price packige?
|| you could simply utilize Linux and even pursue another more mature Net techanology such as 802.11.g! W/ Linux you cant go wrong!
Great... (Score:5, Funny)
And then the real clever hacks will flicker my light bulbs to induce that alpha-beta wave hypnosis thing I read about on a UFO site, so I know it's true.
And then someone will figure out inductive electromagnetic control of wire-sitting pigeons using the evanescent propagation mode of the power cables. Yeesh! Foul smelling flying rats dive-crapping and generally inconviencing passers-by. Is all this really worth fatser access to alt.linux.leatherfetish.penguins.penpen or whatever?
The saving grace will be that they'll never figure out how to impedance match to random pairs of tied-together sneakers hanging over the cables.
http://www.artgonepostal.com/image/soles6up.gif [artgonepostal.com]
Re:Great... (Score:2)
Other approaches (Score:5, Informative)
The problem with any wire-based HF transmission system is reflections, standing waves, radiation and losses, and a power system by its very nature is not designed for HF. But the existence of the infrastructure - distribution stations, ducting, overhead supports - could make it a very good solution for stringing fibre. Overhead cables are inherently less prone to backhoe incidents than buried cables. There is a benefit to the electrical utility in that they can use the fibre to run their own control systems easily.
Any such idea needs to be planned in from the start- it could be a cheap add-on to rural electrification in places like India and China, but much harder to do in the US or Europe where cables have long service lives.
A total crock? (Score:3, Informative)
I don't know how this particular technology works. But think about how X10 works.
The power goes through a sine wave cycle 60 times each second. That means there are 120 times each second where there is a zero crossing. That is, no voltage on the wires. Just dry wires. Now widen this period of time from zero milliseconds to some positive number of milliseconds, and you now have a definite time period where the voltage on the lines is less than X. (Where X is some small desired voltage.) During this time, you can transmit a high frequency signal on these dry wires.
I know that is a vague description. It was many (like 14) years ago when I read the specs on how X10 works on the power line.
There are no doubt other techniques. So why would anyone be skeptical of the mere capability to send high bandwidth information over power lines?
Re:A total crock? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:A total crock? (Score:2)
I suppose you could frequency block the 60 Hz, and let very high frequencies pass -- forming the basis for a receiver. I don't know the technique for "injecting" the high frequency onto a line with power. I suppose that if your "packet" is very brief compared to the length of a 60 Hz sine wave, during the injection of your packet you can think of the voltage on the line as pure DC that is gradually rising or falling. Block DC from flowing back into your driver circuit, and but let your high frequency AC pass through. Of course, the view that what is on the powerline is DC only is correct until the end of the current half-cycle of the 60 Hz. So you need to then disconnect your DC blocking (I think otherwise known as a capacitor in series?) but it's been too many years since I got hold of an HP25, became fascinated with software, and have since forgotten which end of a soldering iron to pick up.
X10's been around since the 70's. (Score:2)
From experience, though, the signals don't propogate very well. I have a lot of dead spots in my house, and nothing works on any circuit with an electric motor on it.
Re:A total crock? (Score:4, Interesting)
The 60Hz frequency standard in the US is a "desired" point... everything, from turning on a blender at home, to firing up your local steam generator for the morning ramp, has an effect on the grid, from a minute twitch to a big swing. If there is more demand than generation, the frequency slows down as energy is sucked out of the grid; likewise, overproduction of electricity causes the frequency to speed up. Now, it takes many many MWatts to make a change, because so many loads & generators are wired in parallel, but it's still possible.
There are many companies operating in parallel across the USA (abbreviated RTOs & ISOs) that work to balance the supply & demand of electricity every second... we track the frequency (graph here [pjm.com]) in an attempt to balance the whole thing out, by calling on more generation when the frequency is low, and telling the to back off when it is high...
Now, as far as sending data by modulating the AC wave, the problem here is the "scrubbing" effects of Transformers. The premise behind high voltage transfer of electricity is to use transformers to step up the voltage & lowering the current. Lower current equates to less heat loss, so you can send the energy more miles for the same loss. Now, the problem is the magnetic core does not have a good frequency response when converting E to M to E again... they're designed for a low frequency after all. So, you end up with every transformer removing all of the high-freq. oscillations.
Re:A total crock? (Score:2)
Re:A total crock? (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.valhallascientific.com/applications/ap
http://www.lehmanengineering.com/quiz/quiz6sol.ht
http://www.mech.uq.edu.au/courses/mech3760/chap34
Humans create "reactive load" by running motors. Motors draw current, increase in current lowers voltage amplitude across a transmission line, plus larger power flow causes increase in reactive loss on a power line. Reactive loss lowers the voltage at both the supply end and the delivery end. Lower voltages reduces the torque in the motor shaft, not to mention reactive demand reduces the real output of the generator. This tends to slow down the motor, and the rotor speed is proportional to the frequency, so the overall frequency drops.
The only difference is that there is no cat. Err, I mean, the whole concept of "reactive" energy is just a mathematical construct representing amplitudes and phase angles. Its the old A<Phi vs R+jX conversions. But they're messy.
Re:Frequency is mechanically derived (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.ecmweb.com/ar/electric_answering_sev
"How do AC generators control vars, voltage, and power?
Although the controls of a generator do interact, the following generalities are true.
* Power output of a generator is controlled by its prime mover.
* Voltage and/or var contribution of a generator are controlled by the exciter current level.
For example, let's assume that an additional load is connected to the output of a generator. The added current flow will increase the strength of the armature's magnetic field and cause the generator to slow down. In order to maintain frequency, the generator's governor will increase the power input to the prime mover. Thus, the additional power required of the generator is controlled by the prime mover input."
And vice versa. Too much generation increases the frequency.
"As a final example, let's assume that we have two or more generators running in parallel and feeding a load. Generator 1 (G1) is carrying all the load (real and reactive) while Generator 2 (G2) is running at zero watts and zero vars. If the operator for G2 opens the prime mover throttle, G2 starts to feed watts to the system. Since the connected load hasn't changed, both generators will speed up unless G1 throttles back.
As G2 picks up an additional share of the load, it requires an increased field flux. If the G2 operator does not increase the G2 field, G2 will draw its additional excitation from G1, requiring G1 to increase its excitation level. If neither G1 nor G2 increase the excitation level, the overall system voltage will go down."
See also
http://www.ecmweb.com/ar/electric_prime_movers_
Swedish company delivering internet via powerlines (Score:3, Informative)
Who cares? (Score:3, Insightful)
The same arguments made in the article for DoP ("data over power lines") can be made for DSL. And the same drawbacks that DSL has (you need to spend a lot on infrastructure, ie extra equipment in telephone exchanges) will apply to DoP. So it won't be cheaper to implement, and the 'broadband gap' (too few customers in rural areas to justify upgrading the exchange) will still apply.
Ameren admits it's not aiming for cheaper-than-DSL links, they just want a piece of the ISP/POP pie.
Here in Ireland .. (Score:5, Informative)
The network consists of 48 fibres (24 pairs, each pair capable of delivering 2.5GB.) wrapped around the ESB's high voltage network.
Just as well, seeing as we're still waiting for ADSL [irelandoffline.org]
Re:Here in Ireland .. (Score:2)
It's the so called 'last mile' that's the problem in most cases, getting the data from the fibre points at the terminus of the pylon grid to the place (i.e. the office/home) which is the hard (and expensive) bit.
Commercially viable? (Score:2, Informative)
been working fine in Scotland (Score:2, Informative)
Forget it (Score:5, Interesting)
Old subject, but anyway.. PLC has problems. (Score:5, Insightful)
But let's not get too much into that: Powerlines are designed to be transport lines for 50-60Hz AC voltage, and these PLC solutions utilize the bandwidth under 30MHz.
Because the transport line isn't suitable for as high frequencies PLC solutions are using, losses for the transmitted signal are incredibly high. All this "lost" power that wasn't transmitted to the receiver, has been radiated into environment.
Thus, power lines act as a huge antenna, which leads into few things:
your data is not safe, eavesdropping is easy
HF radio bands get polluted, which not only annoys the radio amateurs, but also the army, ship traffic..
In Japan, power line communications were rejected, mostly because of the huge amount of interference.
Companies manufacturing the PLC equipment have tried to push down the amount of interference using spread spectrum techniques, which indeed drops the amount of interference in one spot frequency - but total amount of interference doesn't drop. And as you have huge number of PLC hubs in one area, interference sums up into high static noise level.
And what really sucks is, that basically PLC is a cable modem solution - user shares his bandwidth with the other users in area.
This PLC is simply put "a bad idea". Nice goal, but there are also sane ways in achieving it - like different DSL-technologies (or LRE) we already have available.
Subsidizing underground lines? (Score:2)
I live in Charlotte, NC, and just a couple of months ago we were hit with a really bad ice storm that downed a lot of powerlines. There has been some discussion since then of burying lines, although Duke Power put the cost at around $300/ft., I believe.
I wonder if offering broadband services might be a way for power companies to subsidize burying and/or upgrading power lines.
Done that, chucked in. (Score:5, Informative)
Sounded promising back than and I was surely disappointed, when it was announced that it was not experimented with it any further.
--Mal
I can imagine. (Score:2, Funny)
Old news (Score:2)
Or if you'd seen this [theregister.co.uk] in 1999.
I also vaigly remember NorWeb (in the UK) trialling this and finding that every street lamp acted as an emitter.
Granted this was a couple of years ago (also reported by Slashdot [slashdot.org]) so technology will have improved by then.
How is it 'news' ? (Score:3, Informative)
obvious link to it EEF Powernet [eefpowernet.ch] (french/german only).
btw, it leaves me with only 4 choices for broadband (ADSL, Cable, powerline, satellite). I can't even have wireless access ... pffff ...
Re:How is it 'news' ? (Score:2)
Coooooooool.
OK for some of you (Score:2, Funny)
Noone out there even thinks about those without electricity running to thier house. What about them? If broadband over power becomes a reality, it will utterly leave behind those without electricity! Who will stand up for them? When will the digital revolution come to these poor souls?
We should focus attention on ways to solve the last mile problem that doesn't require exotic, heavily shielded copper cable to every house. Only then will we achieve social parity.
-Charlie
(to save you the clicks on the moderator page, it was meant as sarcasm)
Great! (Score:5, Funny)
Availability date? (Score:2)
Just a few questions about using the power lines (Score:2, Insightful)
Sending communications signals over the electrical line must involve modulating the frequency of the current. That does not cause any problems for the existing electrical equipment that is using the lines? Do you need to install filters on your appliances to ensure that they get 'clean' power? If not, what is the long-term affect of running 'dirty' electricity through your electronic devices. I understand that existing current is not frequency perfect and that there are fluctuations but does this communications related modulation fall within the existing fluctuation parameters? If not, what is the affect? If it does, how is it distinguished from existing line noise?
Re:Just a few questions about using the power line (Score:2)
Cleaning up power is expensive; the simple systems that remain effective can easily cost around $400 for a single 15A 120V circuit; and you can find you need to spend many times that.
Serious "home theatre" video systems will be almost certainly be degraded in picture and audio quality, for example. "Lunatic fringe" hi-fi nuts will absolutely hate it, as will anyone working with hi-grade test or lab equipment. These users already know how much difference cleaning up the power can make, because most of them have seen it demonstrated (and find disbelief turns to amazement).
The companies promoting this are basically saying that the average user won't be affected, so who cares about the rest? But the problem is getting worse, not better.
There may well be a point where it will affect performance of even common industrial equipment and home AC powered devices to the point where failure and under- or out-of-spec performance becomes more common.
For a more-or-less random page (the first one I found on Google with a review of a relatively inexpensive AC filter product) describing some of the issues, check out this link:
http://www.hometheatersound.com/equipment/psaud
Probably filtered out at the door (Score:2)
Ve hawe that alredy here in finland (Score:2, Informative)
Connections and splices and transformers, Oh My! (Score:3, Interesting)
It would probably be cheaper to just run fiber along the distribution lines, which is what some power companies have done.
Look at what happened when the telephone companies went to DSL, in some places they had to redo 20 years of repairs that were adequate for phone lines, but not for high speed data. It cost a them a fortune and it is almost a certainty that the power companies would be faced with the same situation if not worse.
Live (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.allo.ch/fr/internet/powernet.php
Already been done! (Score:3, Interesting)
Data transmision in fluids is common (Score:3, Interesting)
Kluge? (Or even kludge?) (Score:2)
Besides, who in their right mind would link to any dictionary but the Jargon File [astrian.net] for a computer term?? See kluge [astrian.net] there. (Not kludge [astrian.net].)
P.S. WTF happened to www.tuxedo.org 's jargon file?? WTF?!
How it works (or won't work) (Score:3, Interesting)
Data Communication Using Power Lines (patent) (Score:2, Informative)
ice-9 (Score:3, Funny)
i thought, this movie is retarded. well what do you know? i guess i'm not so smart after all
-- p
Powerlines not standardized... (Score:3, Insightful)
Some of the circuits in my house are still the kind in which the current is carried by two separate insulated wires about a foot a part, mounted on insulated standoffs. I think this kind of wiring was common in the twenties. More wiring has been added, but nobody every removes old wiring that's working perfectly well.
Even DSL is iffy and THAT'S on wires that are DESIGNED to carry signals.
What we need is more standardization and better engineering, not less.
Popular Science Article (Score:2, Interesting)
I remember there being an articl in "Popular Science" over this subject in an October of 1999 or 2000 issue. I can't find it now when I search the archives at Popular Science. It described a company in Dallas Texas that was patenting the technology to get the signal through a transformer station. They explained that the issue with the IP over powergrid worked by piggy-backing the packets over the EMF radiation that is generated around high voltage lines. The problem was not in how to piggy back the signal, rather how to extract it from a transformer station where the EMF fields of multiple cables merge. The solution this company came up with was to convert the data into a microwave signal at one end of the transformer station and beam it to the other end of the transformer station. I presume they would do something similar around the transformers at the neighborhoods as well. They were creating a prototype device that made use of maser technologies (basically a laser that operates in the microwave band of EM radiation). They were also patenting their devices that extract the signal from a wall plug (~110 US) and convert it to either 10BaseT or other options. The last time I checked up on the company they were beta-testing the technology in North Texas and Oklahoma. I'm not sure where they are now, as I don't remember the name of the company.
Aside from the technical hurdles of placing data on the powergrid, I think there would exist a technical hurdle in regards to data security. The EM fields given off by powerlines can affect your AM radio (and FM sometimes), so we know the signal is strong enough to affect electronics components. Since it is that strong, we can assume that the signal could be "read" by electronics components as well. Particularly, those who wish to construct "scanners". Anyone within close proximity of the powergrid could "tap" the line for data extraction. A significant security effort would need to be undertaken by ISP's to provide encrypted transmission of data. Currently, packets are simply sent down the wire with no encryption (unless you encrypt the data yourself). The wire itself provides a physical barrier to a data thief in that you must physically connect to the wire. With the powergrid you merely need to be in the proximity of the wire. I think this would only apply to overhead powerlines and transformer stations.
Additionally, data could be corrupted by natural causes such as solar flares and thunderstorms. Both of which would zap your data by scrambling the magnetic fields that you are depending on. Again, this might only affect the overhead lines and the transformer stations. Of course, if the transformer station went out, the whole issue becomes moot.
Yay! Link lights everywhere... (Score:3, Funny)
I could have a DISCO! [homestarrunner.com]
I am sending this via powerline (Score:2, Interesting)
A problem I had was that not all power sockets can be used. Most sockets seem to pickup too much noise or there is no signal at all.
Nevertheless I like it
They're testing it where I live (Score:2, Informative)
The only link I could find on PPL's pilot program was here [wave-report.com]
Quoted below:
PPL, PA
Al Richenbacher, Manager of PPL's Market Development Group, reported on
PPL's test of PLC in Emmaus, PA, working with Main.net. They chose
Main.net due to their extensive track record of trials in Europe, and the
ability of Main.net to pass their PLC signal through the transformer. I
confirmed this during Q and A--Main.net can pass their signal through a
transformer rather than couple around it.
If the trial goes well, PPL would look to go to commercial deployment in
2003.
PPL is also considering partnering with Amperion, to provide MV backhaul.
This would primarily be to service business customers with bandwidths of
T1 and below.
PPL is currently in the middle of developing their own back office
(billing, provisioning, etc), to service their PLC offerings.
Al would not reveal their total cost per customer on the trials, but
stated that it appeared to be favorable when compared to DSL and cable.
Initial penetration is expected to be less than 10%. But, with a smart
build strategy Al stated that this would be enough to pass break even.
PPL has an internal group that works with the state regulatory commission.
Conversations so far have only been preliminary but the reaction from the
commission has been positive and encouraging.
Many power companies are working on this (Score:2)
The same goes for railroad companies. There are many different type of engines, one of them is the diesel-electric model where a diesel motor drives a electric generator, which then powers the electic motor that drives the train. This solution makes a lot of "noise" that could knock out a transmission line that is placed along the railroad track. So even though fiber might have been a bit overkill in terms of transmission needs, it fits the bill as a method to avoid signalling problems along the track. These lines a, of course also, a great resource for the railroad company to sell transmissions from and it should be fairly easy to put down new lines.
Re:Chilling effect (Score:2, Insightful)
Why would this be different from current internet connection options? Especially since the party most likely to eavesdrop has the power to legalize its actions?