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Music Media

Time to Face the Music 398

Mortimer.CA writes "The Toronto Star has an article up about the ailing recording industry with some possible scenarios for solving the problem(s). Choice quotation: 'We must ask ourselves what Elvis would do to stop the theft of music via the Internet, now so widespread and so brazen that it makes the Baghdad looters look like trick-or-treaters.'"
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Time to Face the Music

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  • by Second_Derivative ( 257815 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @04:41PM (#5765795)

    Record companies should start flooding the Internet with bogus MP3 files that look like songs, but that explode on contact inside the hard drives of Internet thieves. Anyone who illegally downloads an MP3 file via KaZaA or any of the myriad peer-to-peer (i.e. thief-to-thief) services would at best get a corrupted file, and at worst a ruined hard drive.

    The companies should band together and enlist a dark force of special-ops hackers to make this happen. Once Net users discover that all they're downloading is a World Wide Web of pain, only the most determined and technologically savvy of them will continue to steal music.

    Explode on contact? Hey great, while we're at it why don't we get those 1337o hackers make loads of nasty pixies flood out of the downloader's coffee cup holder... er I mean CD ROM drive (you know, that nasty thing used for ripping CD's)

    So this is the sort of utter crap that Slashdot is linking to these days? Word to the editors: This is still in Mysterious Future, I'd recommend you dump it posthaste ;) (Yes I'm a subscription whore. $5 or so is fair game for an extended post history. Morbid curiosity)

    • by Loki_1929 ( 550940 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @04:46PM (#5765830) Journal
      "Once Net users discover that all they're downloading is a World Wide Web of pain, only the most determined and technologically savvy of them will continue to steal music."

      And the rest will be busy filing lawsuits for destructive files causing real damage. There are indeed things that could possibly be done to cause hardware issues, mostly relating to that hardware's firmware, but the legal implications of such an action are the same as they are for authors of viruses. What you'll see is a flood of lawsuits brought by individuals who will swear they've never downloaded illegal files, but somehow or other, this file from the RIAA found it's way onto their system, causing significant damage and downtime.

    • by Anonymous Coward
      but if it makes the hard drive explode as soon as u get it, how do u share it on kazaa and give it to others?
    • by BigBlockMopar ( 191202 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @06:30PM (#5766305) Homepage

      Explode on contact?

      Indeed!

      And this article talks about how Canadian radio is lame. Why is it lame?

      Canadian radio is lame because the Canadian government has protectionist policies which force Canadian radio and TV stations to air 40% Canadian content. This is, of course, because we don't want to lose Canadian music because of all those evil American musicians brainwashing our kids...

      Unless I'm blind and missed it, the article didn't even mention Canadian content laws.

      The problem is that there simply aren't enough musicians in Canada who are capable of going head to head with the products of a very similar culture, 10x the size, next door.

      The net effect is that, to achieve their Canadian content requirements, Canadian broadcasters have to play the same songs over and over and over. And then there are the marginal acts which really aren't good enough for the prime time but are being played anyway... The Tragically Hip are a good example.

      If any American wonders what radio sounds like when you start letting pseudo-socialists control your airwaves, hit Kazaa and grab the Tragically Hip's Bobcaygeon. I'm a classic rock fan. The classic rock station in Toronto, Q107, wants to play Led Zeppelin and Jimi Hendrix. And that's what I want to listen to. But they're forced to play Bobcaygeon because of draconian laws which try to make me like bad music.

      Canadian artists can sink or swim on their own. Alanis Morrissette, Burton Cummings and the Guess Who, Celine Dion, Shania Twain have all made it big in the US. Why? Because of Canadian government protectionism? No... because they're talented.

      Beyond that and without protectionism (not to mention record company pressure, but we'll leave that for another time), radio stations should be playing what the broadest cross-sections of their audiences like. Of course that will result in more listeners and therefore more ad revenues. It's in the stations' interests.

      The Tragically Hip should be working at the Wendys on Division Street in Kingston. The fact that my government has cost broadcasters their audiences weakens the music industry on a whole, disgusted consumers, and wasted billions of tax dollars rescuing struggling "artists" from the hell of working day-jobs in fast food while honing their skills playing bars at night.

      "Paying your dues" is apparently too inhumane for the Canadian government to allow. Paying my taxes makes me want to see my government overthrown.

      • US Radio sucks ass as well. Clear Channel controls a huge percentage of the radio market and they play the same so called music ad-nauseum. I say let the recording industries die! Put the power back into the hands of the musicians. People will continue to make music whether or not they get paid millions to do so. If the recording industry gets out of the way, we may be able to sling all this over hyped corporate shit into the can. Avril, Shania, and Celine are exactly who I'm talking about here. If I have t
  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 19, 2003 @04:41PM (#5765800)
    Were simply making copies of the original items and leaving them intact, I think I'd be fine with it.
    • exactly (Score:2, Insightful)

      by SHEENmaster ( 581283 )
      copying is not theft.

      The recording industry has never made as much as the figures they are citing for "stolen" music.

      Imagine Torvalds charging $100/license for the Linux kernel. Would he be filthy rich, or would we all migrate to *BSD?
    • by penguin_dance ( 536599 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @05:37PM (#5766042)
      It's interesting that they bring up the Baghdad looters. I've thought about it and, while it's too bad when they went after a museum (possibly done by insiders) and the zoo animals, I felt the looters were JUSTIFIED in taking from the government buildings and Ba'ath party members. That government STOLE from the people so they could have their gold toilets and fixtures. The people were just taking back what should have been rightfully theirs in the first place.

      And like an oppressive government, The RIAA doesn't want their distribution and king-maker monopoly to crumble. It would be one thing it it were artist's interests that they were truly protecting, but it's obviously not. This 1999 Salon article [salon.com] is about who owns the digital rights (such as the website, customer database and merchandising). Guess who wants to get their hands on it?

      This quote from the article:
      "Traditionally, record labels have brought in the lion's share of their revenues by selling records, often using Draconian contracts to minimize the artists' take of the profits. Record labels took ownership of the music, its marketing and sales, reserving only a tiny percentage of the take for the artists. So, the artists made their money by merchandising ancillary products, like concert tickets or T-shirts."
      ...
      But most record labels salivate over the idea of a mailing list of 100,000 fans, for multiple reasons. A list of fans of the Backstreet Boys, for example, could easily be used to promote another upcoming pop boy band -- this is what is known as data mining, and is a hot topic within the record industry. As Marc Schiller, CEO of Electric Artists, puts it, "The label wants the data not necessarily for the artist -- they are looking for that data for their artists who are similar to that artist. Should you use one artist's leverage to create a database of consumers that is used for other artists? That is going to become more controversial."

      One question: Isn't Canada also one country that charges a tax on CD-Rs allegedly to pay back record companies for MP3 trading? Which leads to independent artists are being taxed for doing their own records instead of playing the record contract game.

      • One question: Isn't Canada also one country that charges a tax on CD-Rs allegedly to pay back record companies for MP3 trading? Which leads to independent artists are being taxed for doing their own records instead of playing the record contract game.

        I just had a thought about this. The complaint about the CD charge in canada hurting the indie recording artist. Um, why don't they just give recording artists a refund at the end of the year that adds up to the cd-r tax that they'd paid throughout the year

  • Elvis (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 19, 2003 @04:41PM (#5765801)
    Elvis would just order another burger and shoot the TV?!
    • by commodoresloat ( 172735 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @05:05PM (#5765929)
      Elvis probably would have sided with the RIAA once Hilary and Jack convinced him (in a barbituate-induced mental stupor) that by fighting mp3s he was fighting communism. But for him to be invoked as a fighter against "piracy" is ludicrous, since he built his career on the open theft of black music. His work is a perfect case study in how copyright law benefits the real pirates over the real artists. I won't say Elvis wasn't great - he was an incredible performer and artistically he made many of the songs his own - but his greatness was built on the kind of theft and piracy [guardian.co.uk] that copyright law should be designed to prevent, yet instead was used to encourage.
  • Well... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Loki_1929 ( 550940 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @04:41PM (#5765803) Journal
    "We must ask ourselves what [sic] to do to stop the theft of music via the Internet, now so widespread and so brazen that it makes the Baghdad looters look like trick-or-treaters."

    File Chapter 7 (liquidation) bankruptcy on Monday, and by Friday, all your troubles will be over; I promise you.

    • We pay $16 for a CD that costs almost nothing to make. Most artists do not get a cent from CD sales.

      The artist have to pay "expenses" first. These include a breakage fee to cover the cost of broken shellack 78 RPM disks!

      Music would be better if the big 5 recording companies all went tits up.

      We would have a better selection of Music. More artists would actually get paid.

      The technology now exists for decentralised music distribution.
    • Re:Well... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by ArcticCelt ( 660351 )
      I agree with you. It is true that the MP3 revolution have hurt some poor millionaire that now need to cut on their budget for drugs, big cars and prostitutes. Nevertheless, many engineers and technicians have a job now has hardware developer in the new mp3 and digital multimedia industrie. Downloading mp3's is illegal only because there is a law that say it so. Just change the law and the problem is solved; there will be no more stealing and the money will go to a group of more deserving people. I play
  • by Loosewire ( 628916 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @04:42PM (#5765805) Homepage Journal
    Give me a service which has nearly all the songs p2p networks has (ie the big 4 labels and all the smaller ones) for betwen £5 and £10 per month for nonDRM's downloads (ie in mp3 or ogg format) either in unlimited ammount of downloads or limited - 50 songs per month??? and i will pay now
    • That doesn't solve the record companies' problem of controlling their intellectual property. It also doesn't prevent digital sharing beyond the subscriber base, which would have the same effect on digital sales as on CD sales.

      A subscription system I think is practical would involve a special sound card with an RSA-type decryption and DSP on one chip. Your RSA public key would be your subscription ID; just present it to the server to get music that you and only you can listen to. The private key would b

      • That whole post reeks of too much control. p2p thrives beacuse its not controlling. Your not going to make people pay to use something that gives them less (Look at PressPlay). Sure people will copy their downloaded music files to friends, just like they do with their baught cd's. But a lot of people would pay to get high quality , Lightening fast downloads Legally.

        ps anyone explain what this no karma bonus button is for? - im sure its in CmdrTaco's journal so ill head over there now
        • Personal Computers have transformed the value of, and the way we regard music, I would say.
          Download, cut, copy and paste an image file?
          Enjoy it for your own personal use (...as opposed to selling it?)

          Why not a music file?

      • by fucksl4shd0t ( 630000 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @11:51PM (#5767482) Homepage Journal

        That doesn't solve the record companies' problem of controlling their intellectual property.

        Their problem isn't controlling their intellectual property, it's that they're trying too hard to control consumers, and consumers don't want to be controlled. We want to pick and choose how we listen, what we listen to, and so forth, and the record companies don't want us to chose. They want us to bend over and take it the only way they're willing to give it.

    • by SCHecklerX ( 229973 ) <greg@gksnetworks.com> on Saturday April 19, 2003 @05:08PM (#5765948) Homepage
      Except, I don't trust the quality. I want the original uncompressed music. The solution, of course, is to get rid of the ridiculous pricing on CD's...or better yet, let you make your own mix while at the store. Unfortunately, it won't happen any time soon.

      Lucky for me we have a store called cd warehouse nearby that buys the crap I don't listen to anymore, and sells me used CD's for $5-$9. That's at least a reasonable price to pay. I then go home and immediately rip to the jukebox, using high quality VBR, not fixed 128 bit garbage.

      • Ok then - when downloading you get to choose the quality, what was that lossless compression format that was an ogg vorbis spinoff i heard of?? Flac??
        Some will be unhappy with the quality - they will continue to buy cd's. People who want mp3's accept their quality / Size tradeoff and want the ease of use of playing them in great long lists on their pooters.
      • by hiryuu ( 125210 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @06:50PM (#5766395)

        Lucky for me we have a store called cd warehouse nearby that buys the crap I don't listen to anymore, and sells me used CD's for $5-$9.

        See, that's what I don't get about the labels. $15 is an iffy purchase price for a CD, as far as I'm concerned, but won't likely stop me. If it's above that price, there's a good chance I won't touch it except on sale, at places that sell below normal (like Best Buy), or used.

        If a CD is $10, then my waffling ends and I'll almost certainly buy it.

        If CDs were $5 a pop, I'd go f#@$in' broke buying CDs.

        Certainly I can't be the only one like this - there's got to be enough people like me that the volume of sales would go up high enough to justify the reduced margins. Food for thought, although the RIAA et al don't seem to be hungry.

    • by dirk ( 87083 ) <dirk@one.net> on Saturday April 19, 2003 @05:10PM (#5765955) Homepage
      How exactly would this solve the problem? What would happen is people would subscribe, download the files, and then put them in their Kazaa shared folder. Most people would still use Kazaa, since you now have high quality MP3s from the "official" service on Kazaa for free. Why should they pay when someone else will and share it for free?

      The real problem is most people want something for nothing. They want to be able to get the songs for free instead of having to pay for them. If they offer non-DRM caopies of the songs for download, these will just be made available for free, so most people still won;t pay.
      • I was thinking about this problem. Highest bitrate is 320k which you can already get on kazaa. Download at lightening speed - no waiting. Lots of cool features - que downloads to start at night. Maybe even bundling in basic services with broadband connections?
      • If they offer non-DRM caopies of the songs for download, these will just be made available for free, so most people still won;t pay.

        "Most", you say. Well that's already a step in the right direction, isn't it. The industry should do what Loosewire says. There are lots of things to entice people from moving from the current crop of P2P applications to the industries legal alternatives (which might or might not be P2P):
        - legality!
        - ease of use - already Kazaa, especially, is already extremely easy to use;

    • That's not a half bad idea actually, if the prices are reasonable. The main reason I wont buy cds it because who wants to spend $20 and get one good song, 16 crappy ones? As soon as the recording/whatever industry realizes that this is the problem (at least to me), and either changes its pricing structure or allows this kind of downloading for a monthly fee, they're just going to bang their heads against the wall trying to stop online music piracy.
  • Okayyyyy (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ELCarlsson ( 570500 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @04:44PM (#5765817)
    Okay, so according to the write up swapping some songs on the internet is better than breaking into a Baghdad museum and making off with priceless historical artifacts. Hrm...next you'll be telling me that murderers are getting lighter sentences than those violating the DMCA.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    He was all about self-promotion. If the people love you and your music, they'll buy Elvis-brand lunchboxes, furniture, ground beef, forks, etc. They'll also go to your concerts, and many fans will STILL buy full CD's because they are fans. I doubt Elvis would be too concerned.
  • I read this in the paper today. The first guy's a complete idiot. The other 4 aren't so bad but it's nothing new. As far as I remember, one guy was saying that record companies SHOULD go down, another person wrote that it's all about the radio stations and that's where the fault lies, and what the other two guys said was more or less repeating what the other two said.

    Nothing in the article is new that 95% the rest of us already know about.
  • by disc-chord ( 232893 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @04:45PM (#5765823)
    What you need to do is make the consumer want to purchase this hunk of plastic. So package the hunk of plastic with some jerk off material like T.A.T.U.'s CD with wet-tshit pics.

    • Added value, not just the "plain" music, but something extra, is a good way to sell the media, and justify all the distribution channel and associated costs.

      But there must be some way to give the artist and even the record company a some kind of reward for the music itself, for a theme or album you really liked, unattached to any media or way to get it (even if you hear it in the radio and liked it). It could be a "donation" system, or some kind of voting with money attached, or things like that.

  • by dgenr8 ( 9462 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @04:46PM (#5765827) Journal
    It's not the RECORDING industry that's ailing -- it's the MEDIA DISTRIBUTION industry. Artists will always need good studios, producers, technicians, and equipment. The RIAA is misnamed. Their weakening stranglehold on the distibution of the final product (bits) is the only reason they get a piece of the pie, and not a flat fee (like the tour bus driver).
  • by The Analog Kid ( 565327 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @04:46PM (#5765832)
    All your troubles will be solved. I'm not just saying that to troll or anything, but then the people who boycott the RIAA won't boycott you(unless they hold a grudge on you), you don't have to follow the RIAA(Your not going to be forced to price fix). I hope that these companies can figure out that they are public enemy #1 on the minds of most technical people(they did help write the DMCA or the RIAA did for them). Sure you want to protect your copywrites well why do you think P2P exsisted because of the RIAA. They created it with their high prices and people got sick of it.
  • 1500% (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Loosewire ( 628916 )
    KaZaA's online file-sharing service leapt by a staggering 1,500 per cent between the summers of '01 and '02
    Wasnt that around the time napster was shutdown and everyone was looking for an alternative??
  • It's Colonel Tom Parker. He would do everything and anything for a buck. I'm sure he'd be breaking laws all over the place (or getting new laws made) in order to collect every last penny of royalties he could.

    The RIAA ain't Elvis...
  • Ailing? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by JJahn ( 657100 )
    "Ailing Recording Industry"

    What the HELL are they talking about...they are looking just fine to me. They are making money, tons of it even. And they seem to have plenty of money to spend on lawyers to prosecute college students.

    • And they seem to have plenty of money to spend on lawyers to prosecute college students.

      Lawyers are to failing companies as cockroaches are to post-nuclear-apocalypse civilization; they are all that's left. Take SCO for example.

  • "the theft of music via the Internet, now so widespread and so brazen that it makes the Baghdad looters look like trick-or-treaters."

    I don't think anyone can consider the downloading of Britney Spears equivalent to having mankind's oldest known writings stolen or smashed. But the music industry loves to exagerate...
  • by Lawmeister ( 201552 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @04:49PM (#5765846) Homepage
    -the record companies will stop promoting anything that might be experimental and push the brittanies and N'sync's in their quest for dollars.

    -by not signing new bands to restrictive and costly (to the bands) contracts, more players in the indie scene will appear, more artists will take control of their own destiny

    -CD's and mp3's will become promotional material available on artists' websites (already happening now) for the real money making venture - touring! (which is definately the place to hear your favourite bands)

    Clear Channel and Ticket Master will be the corporate pimps in this new business model

    /end cristal ball
  • by yintercept ( 517362 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @04:51PM (#5765853) Homepage Journal
    One would almost think market economies would tend to lower the price of items as distribution costs fall. Last time I looked, the cost of CDs were rising. (That was a while ago...because I never even bother looking at CDs any more.)

    The pirating is just a side show. The real problem is that distribution and production costs have fallen through the floor and the industry has not responded to the market dynamics. Instead they cling to copyright laws and monopolistic tactics to maintain artificially inflated costs of their goods.

    If you really asked the musicians...most would love the idea of a dollar CD. A dime a song.

    The CRIA's complaint is that someone is robbing the plunder house.

    BTW What's this noise about antiquities? Try pumping an antiquity in your Surburban and see where it gets you.
    • CD prices seem to have gone down some, but it didn't happen too long ago, like starting early fall 2002 or so. The prices I've seen at Best Buy didn't seem too bad. Heck, Far Side of the Moon on a hybrid CD/SACD costs $14 at Best Buy. A lot more CDs seem to be available at $10 and $12 prices there.
    • Sure, I've had roommates who downloaded a lot, but the real problem in the music industry is there's so much music out there already, and owned already (high-quality, low-quality, any genre...) that consumers don't want to spend more money on it, especially in crippled post-CD formats. When my wife and I got married, we found that we had more than a cubic metre of music between us. Some of it we acquired at garage-sales, was given to us, etc... but even if we just stook to the better half, we cou
      • The saturated market is also a good point. Prices drop after saturating the market. So we aren't even just looking at technical issues.

        I think the computer industry should demand special treatment from the courts...computers used to sell for well over $2000 a piece. Now now can pick up better computers for $500.

        Somebody is STEALING $1500 for each computer purchase!!!!!!

        Even worse, computer programmers used to be able to pick up contracts for $100+ an hour. Now it is tough to get a $40 job doing the sam
  • The REAL solution? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by DMaster0 ( 26135 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @04:51PM (#5765857)
    Perhaps this article (and many similar ones written this week) should be read first before taking the first article with a grain of "downloading is bad" salt.

    http://www.antimusic.com/news/03/april/item19.sh tm l

    The way the indie promotion business works is record labels pay the indie promoters to work directly with radio stations to get songs on the air. It is estimated that this system can cost over a $1 million to land a song on Top 40 radio.


    A million dollars a song? No, there's no way you can lose money doing THAT with homogenized bland "sounds like" radio, is there?

    An open note to record companies: Downloading is not hurting you as much as you're hurting yourself (and your audience indirectly) with the payola and other fat inside the company.

    Want to make money again? Stop paying for radio to sound homogenic. Stop paying everyone and their grandmother bribes to tell people that the music you paid too much to record (michael jackson's invincible is a good one) doesn't suck and it's worth getting 40 spins a day on the top 100 stations in the US. Make programming directors at radio stations do their job and discover new music again, and break the stuff that needs to be broken, and let the copycat mainstream music stay on MTV, where they're content to just use what they're paid to play.

    Give Radio back to the people, and you'll see that people want your music again, and it won't always be just the stuff you force feed them. If the same 25 songs weren't put on a loop with commercials on most radio stations, you'd see more than the same 25 albums being sold, and you'd likely not need to pay a million bucks a song (and with the typical 5 single album, that's 5 mil in useless waste, multiplied by perhaps 100 albums a year, that's half a billion dollars in useless waste, isn't it?).

    Amazing where you can find profits these days, isn't it?
    • by Sancho ( 17056 )
      Here's the problem. A lot (and I mean a lot) of money went into researching the type of music people like. The idea being you want to play what people like so that they'll listen to the station and hear the commercials. Every song that differs too far from this norm is another hundred people who are just gonna change the station or pop in a CD when that song comes on. Diversity on a radio station is a bad thing, because it means losing viewers when something they don't like comes on.

      So they start churn
  • looting (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Pros_n_Cons ( 535669 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @04:51PM (#5765860)
    "now so widespread and so brazen that it makes the Baghdad looters look like trick-or-treaters.'"
    The most of the looters are are expressing their new found freedom after 30 years of suppression and thievery from the regime. I'm pretty sure thats why Iraqi's are doing it too.

    • The most of the looters are are expressing their new found freedom after 30 years of suppression and thievery from the regime.


      Hey, just like music consumers!

      (Well, it's sorta funny :)
  • Reasonable Prices (Score:5, Insightful)

    by LordBodak ( 561365 ) <msmoulton@NOspaM.iname.com> on Saturday April 19, 2003 @04:52PM (#5765862) Homepage Journal
    It's that simple. The music industry is pricing itself out of business. Why do I have to pay $15 for a CD with an hour of music when I can spend only a little more to get a DVD... 2 hour movie, often 2 or 3 hours of bonus material, feature commentaries (another 2 hours each). Start selling CDs at reasonable prices and sales will go up, piracy will go down.
    • by Binky The Oracle ( 567747 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @07:13PM (#5766504)

      I've seen this DVD price comparison trotted out quite a bit. DVDs are definitely a good value for the money, and I definitely agree that CDs are overpriced, but the DVD comparison leaves out one part of the equation:

      With a DVD, the cost-recovery for the initial project has normally already been done in the form of a theatrical release. This is where the studios normally recoup the costs of making the film. The DVD has some additional production costs, but those are generally built into the price of the DVD. You could hold up straight-to-video releases as an exception, but those are normally dogs anyway (or at least films that don't warrant the expense required for a full theatrical release), and wouldn't support a higher price. These "bargain-bin" releases are an attempt to recover at least some of the film's production costs.

      With CDs, however, there is no theatrical release. CD sales are the only (well, primary anyway) means for the label to recover not only the costs of recording that album, but to support artist discovery and all the bands they paid for that didn't make it (essentially the same as R&D costs factored into the cost of software or computer hardware).

      I agree that the RIAA is corrupt, screws the majority of their artists, and that CDs are overpriced. I also agree that lowering the price of a CD would do wonders for the music industry; the ease of digital transfer has lowered the effective value of music, but the industry has refused to acknowledge that, instead resorting to purchasing legislation that supports their outdated business model.

      The best solution would be for musicians to realize that they truly have more power than they used to. The major labels are still needed for promotion and distribution, but they certainly aren't doing the work they used to do, specifically artist development*. As a result, they shouldn't be making the same profit/cut they used to. Unfortunately, we're dealing with a group that has immense political and economic power, that is extremely resistant to change, customer-hostile, and entrenched.

      And that's never an easy thing to change.

      *There are a few exceptions like Britney, but the only way to get real artist development these days is to either be signed directly by the CEO or have a multi-platinum first album. Many bands that are now considered classics (especially in the no-airplay album rock field) wouldn't survive today's environment.

      • Not quite. The movie industry will spend $60 million to make a movie, where the music industry doesn't need to build sets employ a cast of thousands etc. Music artists can also do something called "concerts" where people pay anywhere from $25 to a few hundred dollars to sit in a seat and listen to the artist. The comparison is valid. Music needs a better product.
  • Free Joe (Score:4, Informative)

    by jon787 ( 512497 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @04:52PM (#5765863) Homepage Journal
    Free Joe [servemp3.com]
  • by fm6 ( 162816 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @04:52PM (#5765864) Homepage Journal
    Jeez, get a sense of proportion. The lawlessness in Baghdad is causing human suffering, death, and may yet lead to a real war. The lawlessness in the IP market is leading to lower revenues -- maybe. Only someone who's at the center of their own moral universe would try to compare the two!
    • I'm glad I'm not the only one offended (or at least surprised) by this tasteless comparison. The RIAA can fall of the earth without any real loss of music , history, or works of human creativity. Heck, we might even find a way to recover works that RIAA publishers don't publish anymore.

      That is, the RIAA just is *NOT* that important in the whole scheme of things. We had music before the RIAA, we'll have music after. And we can hope the music will get better without so much corporate "assistance".

      On the
  • umm... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by ThePeices ( 635180 )
    "...Such high-priced stars as Mariah Carey are getting dumped..." And here the article implies that its the "pirates" who are at fault? oh, surely it couldnt be because of her declining sales because of the fact people dont like her music anymore, and therefore wasnt making enough millions for the record company? oh comeon, these are the sort of BS articles that joe public reads, and beleives that the RIAA and their ilk are only fair and just in removing peoples free rights? itl only be one day when joe
  • Stupid Analogy (Score:4, Interesting)

    by antis0c ( 133550 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @04:55PM (#5765879)
    'We must ask ourselves what Elvis would do to stop the theft of music via the Internet, now so widespread and so brazen that it makes the Baghdad looters look like trick-or-treaters.'"

    Considering Elvis was the "bad-ass" of his time, he would probably be trading music with the rest of us. I don't know about you, but not all the Baghdad looters are bad, mostly the ones stealing from the hospitals and muesums that are bad, but even then you can't say trading music is worse than stealing needed medical equipment that would have been used to save lives. The only thing I'm depriving someone by stealing music is buying that brand new porsche to add to the collection, fucking Hillary Rosen.

    One day history books are going to record how the american music industry burried itself by treating its clientel like criminals. Let me ask this though, why bother saving the music industry? The meat of the music industry isn't the companies distributing the recordings, its the artists performing the music. If the Internet enables people to get the music directly from the artist, and low cost recording equipment and instruments allow the artists to mix and record their own music, what the hell is wrong with that?

    The RIAA is an obsolete business, thank god we didn't have the United States postal service going after the Internet because Email was causing them to lose postage stamp sales (they almost did). Someone came up with a better way, and you can't fight that. No matter what you do, the RIAA is going to be obsolete in probably 10 years.. The question is how much damage are they going to cause on the way down. Companies like the RIAA, MPAA, Microsoft, Sony, that think they can control the consumers make me want to change my profession from an engineer to a lawyer so I go after these damn corporations myself..

    Ugh, infuriating..
  • What would he do? (Score:3, Informative)

    by grnchile ( 305671 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @04:56PM (#5765884)
    Make better music? Stop hating your customers? I can't tell you how good it made me feel, for example, to hear a few days after purchasing a Nora Jones CD that her producer attributes her success to an "older audience" that doesn't know enough about computers to download music. They even believe their own propaganda these days!

    The truth is that despite knowing full well what a computer is and how to use it, I've purchased more CDs in the last year than I ever have. They're almost all from independents, though. There's very little worth buying that comes from the major labels these days. Getting RIAA propaganda as part of the package makes what they're pushing even less attractive.
  • ITS NOT THEFT!!!!! (Score:5, Informative)

    by Scudsucker ( 17617 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @04:56PM (#5765885) Homepage Journal
    Its copyright infringment. Theft is when I remove something from your possession and you don't have it anymore. If I copy something from you without your permission, you still have the origional item. Its that simple. But for some reason people who can tell the difference between apples and oranges, murder and arson, tax evasion and cannibalism can't tell the difference between infringment and stealing.

    You can argue that its morally and legally wrong, but that doesn't make it theft, anymore than arson is theft because it is morally and legally wrong. The quote about Bagdad looters is rich, and incredibly stupid as it makes my point perfectly. These people are theives; all these thousands of year old artifacts might be gone forever. But if the looters were copying all the anchient scrolls as opposed to running off with them, they'd still be in the museum.

    Any reasonably intelligent person should be able differentiate between infringment and theft, but even here on Slashdot there are numerous people who just can't seem to wrap their minds around it. Try imagining someone who insists that apples are oranges because they both come from trees and start out as flowers, thats what these guys are like.

    To those people, before you respond, read these two things over and over until they sink in, and try not to let your minds be thrown into an infinite loop:

    1. If I steal something from you, I have it and you don't.
    2. If I illegally copy something from you, you still have the origional item.
  • Why the discussion (Score:5, Interesting)

    by fluxrad ( 125130 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @04:57PM (#5765890)
    Why is there so much discussion over this so-called "theft" we're experiencing on a massive scale? Regardless of what you think, sales aren't declining because "music sucks" or because the RIAA is recieving some karmic death-blow.

    The music industry is starting to have problems because their method of distribution is outdated. The problem: digital music has become a huge online phenomenon, people want "formless" content that they can transfer to any media they see fit (hard drive, cd, memory stick) and the RIAA has so far been unable to provide consumers with that product.

    The solution: consumers take matters into their own hands, downloading mp3's and then burning, ripping, copying, etc. The reason this has become such a huge deal is that the RIAA as a sort of oligopoly is having trouble coming to grips with the notion that the public will dictate the distribution methods and prices on its own terms. Like the "black market" writeup on K5 a month or two ago, we're seeing a system completely devoid of that which the public wants - on-line distribution at a signifigantly cheaper price than that of a CD (keep in mind blank media already benefits the RIAA).

    Until the RIAA stops thrashing about in this all-out effort to dictate to the public exactly how, when, and for how much (no matter how inflated the price) they can get content, they're going to continue to have problems.

    No morality, no ethics, just the facts. 'Nuff said.
    • by waveman ( 66141 )
      I have never seen a convincing analsysis of why CD sales have fallen.

      I see one label is shutting down its classical music operation. Are classical music fans really downloading mp3s instead of buying CDs?

      Some reasons why CD sales may have fallen.

      1. Baby boomers have now replaced all their vinyl with CDs. This is a once off boost to sales and is now over.

      2. Popular music is getting tired. There is no innovation and nothing to get excited about.

      3. Lack of range. Go into a CD shop or listen to the radio.
    • I'm sure the horse market went under when Ford had his neat idea, and the shackles and whips market probably took a hit with the Civil War.
  • I cancelled my subscription to the star years ago. They have turned into a very bitter, ultra-left wing rant page. Just read some of the other articles up there now. Lots of articles blaming people for SARS, Critisizing the government for causing a double load of students entering university, an article saying how abusive the government is for having enforced quarantines.

    The breaking point for me was when they had an article pretending to be a list of all the great stuff you can do at the CNE that turn
  • Do what 50 Cent did. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by jtrandall ( 450863 )
    50 cent had "highest-selling first album on a major label since Nielsen SoundScan began tabulating record sales in 1991, selling nearly 900,000 copies in the week following its February release" and basically he did 3 things.

    1. Get famous first (create buzz with mixtapes or giving it out free on net)
    2. Put a performance DVD in the package(just some handicam stuff, fan's dont care its "free")
    3. Put out the CD before the bootleg (he actually released it early for this reason
  • ...so what are you going to do about it? Here's their contact page: http://www.thestar.ca/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?page name=thestar/Render&cid=972304684203 [thestar.ca]

    Tell them what you think about this piece. Every bit of corrospondance keeps journalism a little bit more honest.

    • by evenprime ( 324363 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @07:12PM (#5766500) Homepage Journal
      shivianzealot said
      This is not news or even decent editorializing...so what are you going to do about it...Tell them what you think about this piece.
      [sigh!] I almost hate mentioning this, but Peter Goddard's email address is on this page [thestar.com]. If you have something to say, say it to him, not just the editors.

      And try to be nice for once instead of just flaming. Face it, this guy is just a journalist reguritating stuff he heard, and even then, he said a lot of stuff that most of us can agree with:

      Radio is boring and homogenized, and it is hurting CD sales.

      Labels should be more artist friendly

      Michael Green's 2002 Grammy speech was annoying and pointless. (Even Janis Ian ripped on it.)

      Decent recording can be done with reasonable studio costs (He even mentioned the new White Stripes album only costing $10,000 :-) )

      Indie labels treat artists better than majors

      Labels are a) greedy and b) want control of listeners

      This guy is already halfway in our camp. Don't flame him, just educate him a little. In response to his claim that "sales of CDs are in a freefall", point to the recent Christian Science Monitor article [csmonitor.com] we all read that said many indie labels have profits increasing 50-100% a year. Show him that the CDBaby sales figures [cdbaby.org] keep getting better while the RIAA whiles that sales are disappearing.

      He talked about musicians

      "Of that lot, however, the musicians are frequently the worst off. They're the ones working two crap jobs, skipping meals to pay for studio time, braving treacherous Canadian highways during the dead of winter, sleeping in vans and in strange cities and generally living at the mercy of the capricious industry constructed around their music. Some of them are lucky enough to make a living at their art."
      Give him the names of acts you know about that get no radio play [mofro.net] but who still [davidwilcox.com] can make money selling music and touring without a contract.

      In short, instead of yelling at him, give Peter Goddard a few more data points to use in his next article. This guy's views are not that different from most of the people here.
  • Elvis agrees with Janis Ian. I ran into him the other night at the 7/11 in Kalamazoo, Michigan, while he was refilling the propane tanks outside.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    What the hell does Mp3 networks like kazaa have to do with the downfall of Sony's classical division? There's hardly any classic music to be found, and the little that is to be found are mostly incomplete pieces (like the first part of Eine Kleine Nachtmusik or a handful of ouvertures by Wagner). Also, it is impossible to find the recordings you are after (conductors, recordings, orchestras etc are very seldomly hinted by the filenames). Do most people that doesn't listen to classical music even know these
  • by Dr. Bent ( 533421 ) <ben AT int DOT com> on Saturday April 19, 2003 @05:05PM (#5765931) Homepage
    From the article: Worldwide, the entire music business is still worth a whopping $66.6 billion (all figures Canadian)

    Ah, so that's how the Big 5 recording companies have maintained the status quo in the music distribution business.

    Bart: I'd sell my soul for a 95% market share of the music business.
    Satan (as Ned Flanders): [appears...POOF!] That can be arranged...
    Bart: Nope, changed my mind.
    [POOF...Satan disappears]
    Marge: Bart! Stop pestering the devil!
    • From the article: Worldwide, the entire music business is still worth a whopping $66.6 billion (all figures Canadian)

      And yet, the damage done to the music business by a file-trading network in Mishigan is worth $89 billion (US)? That's (*counting on fingers*) more money than the entire industry makes in two years!

  • Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @05:07PM (#5765942)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by Epsillon ( 608775 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @05:11PM (#5765960) Journal

    The bad news is that sales of CDs are in a freefall, representing a $250 million loss over the last two years.

    OK, so we agree sales are falling. Is it any wonder? Having heard the fifth cover version of "Spirit in the Sky" earlier and myriads of other "artists" releasing other people's work, I begin to wonder if the media have woken up to exactly who is the thief here.

    Wake up call: There is a global recession, or something that very much looks like one. The music industry is being hit by a downturn in spending in general, just like everyone else. Not only that but they are exacerbating the problem by the broadside by turning out crap, stuff we've heard time and time again, manufactured groups and cover versions that shame the originals. Why are they making less money? Doesn't take a rocket scientist, does it?

    Why wasn't there all this hue and cry when twin tape decks appeared on the market? Because they weren't as visible as the publicly accessible Internet. Album and song sharing is not a new, 'net age problem. It happened all the time pre-Internet. Anyone who says they haven't copied a tape or recorded from the chart show on the radio is either very young or a liar. The only reason this is gaining public airtime is simply because the 'net, being free speech epitomised, is an easy target for any group of totalitarians, the RIAA included.

    Yes, BTW, I buy my music, when there's anything worth buying. I always have done. The problem is, the interval between my purchases has increased. This is not influenced by finances or that I can download from the 'net. Simply put, the amount of quality music available has declined. Not only that but the implication that I am a criminal simply because I am tech savvy and trying to blame me and worse, imposing a tax on me due to their own faliures and shortcomings doesn't exactly endear the music industry to me, making me think a little more carefully about what I purchase since my purchases may support this idiocy.

    • "Why wasn't there all this hue and cry when twin tape decks appeared on the market?

      You must not have seen LP sleeves with a little [cassette-shaped] Skull and Crossbones, bearing the legend,
      "Home taping is killing the Music Industry."

      "Album and song sharing is not a new, 'net age problem. It happened all the time pre-Internet. Anyone who says they haven't copied a tape or recorded from the chart show on the radio is either very young or a liar. The only reason this is gaining public airtime is simply be

    • There is a global recession, or something that very much looks like one. The music industry is being hit by a downturn in spending in general, just like everyone else.

      I always wondered about this myself; It's nearly like the industry believes that it is entitled to growth, and that if the industry doesn't grow -- or even shrinks, then it must be piracy. Never mind the fact that CD prices have risen by about 20% in my neck of the woods since I entered college. When I graduated from high school, the loca
  • by Pettifogger ( 651170 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @05:12PM (#5765964)
    The RIAA is coming up against a traditional black market. If a desired good is either unavailable or extremely expensive, then a lower cost replacement will undoubtedly be the one purchased. Considering the high cost of gasoline, if I could get, say 10,000 gallons and put a tank on my corner and sell it for $1.00 a gallon, what do you think that would do to the station selling it for $1.66? No one would care as long as it made their cars run.

    Without enacting a lot of laws, police actions, whining, and their other garbage, all the RIAA has to do is lower their prices. If they can price CDs marginally above their cost, the piracy would be crippled. There are other ways to make money- a lot of bands I'd like to see play maybe 12 dates across the country each year, and not always in my neighborhood. If they toured more frequently, yes, I would pay $20-$30 for a show and probably buy food and a t-shirt, too. They just need to change their business model. Make CDs cheap and affordable (the way 45s used to be) and make up the rest with promotions. This used to work, and there's no reason why it won't again.

    • Indeed. And to make them cheaper while still maintaining the profit for the artist and the label, you have to reduce the distribution costs. And one easy way to do that is to... use the Internet and those millions and millions of CD burners out there. I'd like to think that there's some way to set things up so the end user can pay $5 and download a burn-once file. You could put some sort of little shop in the malls where people w/o computers could have a CD burned while they wait, but that shop would st
  • by Daimaou ( 97573 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @05:14PM (#5765973)
    I don't know why the retarded record companies can't look out the window and see as plain as day what they have to do.

    If the major record labels and a few minor ones would just get together and offer a reasonably priced (I'm talking $5 - $10 per month) subscription-based Napster-like service, they would make more money.

    I prefer downloading music. I don't have to drive to the store, I don't have to buy 12 lame songs to get the one that I like, and I can mix my own CDs for my driving pleasure.

    This would be good for artists as well. They wouldn't have to work so hard to release an "album". They could just release one or two songs and everybody would be happy. Or, instead of waiting until they have cobbled together a list of 12 - 15 songs (most of which will be lame anyway), they could release 3 - 4 good songs and forget all the crap songs (of course they'd have to come up with a bunch of crap songs if they wanted to go on tour I guess).

    Anyway, online subscription-based services are the answer, not paying extra money for stupid encryption schemes that will be broken within minutes of being released.
  • Well, indie guys like me are booming! I sell CDs for 5 bucks a pop (my latest was a compilation album of my first 3 albums plus new stuff, 19 tracks), and tell EVERYBODY to rip their favorite tracks to their HD for P2P users. And that is how I get known with minimal cost.
  • The record companies are used to having a near monopoly like existance. You want Metallica? Well there is little competition, but to go through Metallica's distributor.

    Now, competition exists. The record companies aren't stupid. They realize that if they lowered their prices, revenues would probably rise. They will introduce online services, but they want to charge a buck or two a song, when in reality, the price that will bring in profits is more in the neighborhood of 10-20 cents a song.

    If they low
  • The worse news is that the slump has hit Canada first and hardest, because of our higher-than-average use of the Internet, compared to other countries, and the tendency of Internet downloading to cripple traditional record sales. FUD! Has there ever been any proof that people downloading music makes for less sales? If so, can anyone give me some links?

    As music downloading continues to soar -- KaZaA's online file-sharing service leapt by a staggering 1,500 per cent between the summers of '01 and '02 -- l

  • meh (Score:2, Funny)

    back in the day it was soo badass. I could get on IRC and download music, then send those songs to the computer i built for my car and cruise with that.
    for once the 'crusin' crowd thought i had something sweet, but no. then napster came out and everyone's dog is downloading music.

    damn. I want to be a badass again...
  • by carpe_noctem ( 457178 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @05:30PM (#5766020) Homepage Journal
    It seems to me that the RIAA should hire the Iraqi Information Minister on to their PR department. I think he'd fit in great there.

    "The music-pirating infadels shall fall to their knees at the hands of our lawyers! Our profits shall be restored once more!"
  • by buffy ( 8100 ) <buffy@par[ ]t.net ['ape' in gap]> on Saturday April 19, 2003 @05:30PM (#5766023) Homepage
    So if, online file traders are like the looters in Baghdad, then I'd liken the RIAA, and the recording industry at large, to Saddam Hussein. They oppress their artists and their consumers, and their latest legal tactics to "kill" companies like Napster are their own private version of WMD.

    -buf
  • Indeed -- What Would Elvis Do [westnet.com]? That strange sound you just heard was my karma flying away... :^)
  • I sample songs via p2p.. I buy what I like, what I don't like I don't buy. I have a limited
    budget for audio. I don't want to waste what I do have on bad product that I cant return,
    unlike most any other industry except software..

    Its simple as that.. its this easy to figure out: No free sample, no purchase..

    If they don't stop trying to persecute and prosecute me, they will loose another customer.
  • Music Collections (Score:5, Insightful)

    by anon*127.0.0.1 ( 637224 ) <slashdot@NosPAm.baudkarma.com> on Saturday April 19, 2003 @05:44PM (#5766068) Journal
    (pretend the following is in italics)

    Some 17-year-olds I know have vast music collections but have yet to purchase their first CD.

    (okay, you can stop pretending now)

    Fair enough, but I know of a 42-year-old who has bought hundreds of pieces of music over his lifetime, but only has about 20 in his possession right now.

    Lets see... there were 120+ albums that became nostalgia pieces when CD's hit the mainstream. Various CD's that got scratched or broken. Cassettes that met a sad demise in a hot car in the Texas sun. 8-Tracks... hell, we won't even talk about them.

    Point being, the music industry keeps insisting that I'm not buying the actual music, just a limited license to listen to said music. Fine, but in that case I'm going to insist that I own that license forever, regardless of whether or not I still own the physical medium the music was recorded on. As long as I didn't give it away or resell it, it's still mine.

    Until the music industry offers to replace all this stuff for free when it breaks or wears out, I'm going to keep hitting the P2P networks to get copies of the stuff I've already paid for.

  • by rsidd ( 6328 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @05:47PM (#5766085)
    The author seems to think the death of the record industry "as we know it" would be a disaster.

    As many people have pointed out, it's the big labels who are in pain: smaller labels aren't dying. When I lived in France, my favourite record shop was a boutique of a label called Harmonia Mundi [harmoniamundi.com]. It wasn't cheap, but every CD I got there was impeccable. It didn't stock any of the major big labels.

    Here's [lafolia.com] an article by Bernard Coutaz, founder of Harmonia Mundi, where he essentially calls for the death of the big companies who in his eyes are killing classical music:

    It is imperative that recorded classical music finds its José Bové (white knight - José Bové is the French trade unionist farmer who played a major rôle in disrupting the world trade negotiations in Seattle last year)
    (and, I may add, is notorious for his attacks on McDonald's in France - R) to denounce the dangers of globalization and profit.
  • Does the recording industry actually have concrete proof of a direct correlation between apparent loses and music piracy? It seems to me like there is also the possibility that the quality and effort put into new music is going down as well. I do agree that music piracy is undoubtedly reducing the overall revenue. However, another possibility is that the lost revenue is simply the CD's that people stopped buying because people were actually able to try out CD's before they bought them.
  • by Joey7F ( 307495 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @07:07PM (#5766482) Homepage Journal
    There is one main problem to subscription based models. The record companies complain the loudest about losing money on the pop-scene. As the article suggests, jazz, classical and non-mainstream genres are doing okay and the imply (rightly so?) because they are aimed at a more affluent, older crowd.

    So they want kids, to buy the mainstream pop stuff right? However, all the subscription services require, you guessed it, a credit card. How about this for an idea. You sell the equivalent of prepaid phone cards at b&m locations (7-11, grocery stores etc) and that buys you X amount of songs.

    If you price that at about 50 cents a song or so, you probably can get kids to buy the cards. This is especially true, if I could get high quality, fast access, etc.

    I must add to the conditions, no copy protection.

    People will pay! You could even encourage people to buy cds online (or offline) using these cards. You could include the cards in CDs for promotional value.

    One last thing, before P2P, I used to buy around 6 cds a year (this was at my cd buying height) so far this year I have purchased 4. I am pretty sure I will be adding one more on July 8th with Big Bad Voodoo Daddy's latest effort.

    I pretty much have maintained the same purchase rate CDs.

    Online downloading is more about convenience than anything else.

    --Joey

  • by satch89450 ( 186046 ) on Saturday April 19, 2003 @09:06PM (#5766929) Homepage

    OK, so I'm an old fuddy-duddy who remembers the days of vinyl. When I was a kid I got an old tube-type pre-amp that had an unusual dial on it. It selected the record de-emphasis to use for each particular label, and it had 19 positions. That's right, each record cutting company had its own ideas as to what the "best" pre-emphasis curve to use to reduce SNR without overcutting the record. (Yes, this was in the days of 78-rpm records, although even the early 33-1/3-rpm records were cut using proprietary filters.)

    One of the reasons the Recording Industry Association of America, a.k.a the hated RIAA, was formed was to reign in the madness and develop some sensible standards for recordings. The work of the RIAA was to reduce the cost of both recording and playing back recordings in a number of formats: vinyl, magnetic tape, and at one point magnetic wire. By reducing the Babel, makers of cartridge pre-ampliers would need to put in less circuitry, makers of record-cutting lathes could provide the "standard" circuits for each speed/format, and the listening public didn't have to mess with that 19-position knob anymore when changing records.

    The RIAA did such a good job that it put itself out of its original business, setting standards. Much of the standards work is now done by the developers of media: Phillips for cassettes, and I don't recall who brought us the digital compact disc. The DVD is pretty much out of RIAA's hands, too.

    Interesting that the RIAA and many computer engineers have something in common -- a lack of need for what they do...

  • by Animats ( 122034 ) on Sunday April 20, 2003 @12:24AM (#5767587) Homepage
    I'm really tired of whining from the music industry. So is Congress.

    The dot-coms are gone. Airlines are going into bankruptcy. Major telecoms are in bankruptcy. The energy-trading industry blacked out California by market manipulation, took major utilities into bankruptcy, and then went bankrupt itself. The music industry isn't up there on the national priority list.

    The music industry is panicking because their sales are down 9%. NINE PERCENT. Car sales are down more than that. Hell, all retail is down more than that.

    The music industry needs to shut up and soldier. They have a retail sales problem - let them solve it. Work on the product mix, find some new products that sell, come up with an online distribution system that's usable, cut costs and retail prices. None of that has happened. That's an indication of top-management incompetence.

  • by Roblimo ( 357 ) on Sunday April 20, 2003 @12:43AM (#5767647) Homepage Journal
    When I see some of the album cost production figures today, I shake my head. I was reading (don't ask why) an interview with Queen Latifah in a magazine called "Sister to Sister" and she was talking about $2 million to record and produce one album.

    I doubt that Berry Gordy (Motown founder/producer) spent that much on studio time and production for all the Diana Ross, Gladys Knight, Smokey Robinson, and Marvin Gaye albums he produced added together.

    Has all the expensive "modern" digital studio retracking and remixing made the music we get any better? I don't think so. Maybe record companies should start cutting costs on the production end at the same time they try to figure what to do with the distribution side of the business.

    - Robin
  • by serutan ( 259622 ) <snoopdoug AT geekazon DOT com> on Sunday April 20, 2003 @01:21AM (#5767738) Homepage
    Musicians distribute their tunes freely on the Internet. In return they get exposure, which gets them paying gigs, and they live off the income from the gigs like they do now. The record business dries up and blows away, leaving musicians and everybody else to get along Just Fine.

    To repeat what has been said over and over by musicians who are speaking out: musicians do not make money from recording contracts. Standard recording contracts are written so that all production, distribution and advertising costs come out of the musician's share, draining it down to zero. Musicians make money from the gigs that they get through the exposure they get by having their songs widely distributed. Give musicians an alternate distribution method which works just as well will rob them of nothing.
  • by bahwi ( 43111 ) on Sunday April 20, 2003 @01:23AM (#5767741)
    "makes the Baghdad looters look like trick-or-treaters."

    Yeah, those mp3's you downloaded are more valuable than the priceless treasures and ancient artifacts from the dawn of human civilization. Someone needs to cut the RIAA down in half.

There's no sense in being precise when you don't even know what you're talking about. -- John von Neumann

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