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Television Media

Pioneer To Release TiVo/DVD Burner Combo 252

Posted by simoniker from the geek-toys-get-cooler dept.
TK-421 writes "According to an official Pioneer press release, 'Pioneer is revolutionizing home video recording with the introduction of the world's first DVD recorders featuring the TiVo service. These new recorders offer consumers the control provided by the easy-to-use TiVo service integrated with advanced DVD recording for the option of short-term storage on a hard drive or long-term archival of broadcast programming on DVD-R/RW discs.'" The options include both 80 and 120GB models, starting at a not-inexpensive $1199, and there's more information via a CNET News article.
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Pioneer To Release TiVo/DVD Burner Combo More

Pioneer To Release TiVo/DVD Burner Combo

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  • How long till... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Basje ( 26968 ) <bas@bloemsaat.org> on Thursday June 26, 2003 @04:11AM (#6300907) Homepage
    ... someone sues them for copyright infringement. The voting boot is open.
    But please be quick: you can only vote while no litigation has been announced.
    • I hereby announce that there will be litigation... ....Voting boot closed!!!!

      Jeroen

    • Re:How long till... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by volkerdi ( 9854 )
      This isn't copyright infringement. Home recording and archiving is considered fair use for non-commerical purposes, and is protected in the US by the Home Recording Act (for now). Plus, TiVo has always detected Macrovision (anti-analog copying technology) and if the show was originally broadcast with it (mostly Pay Per View), the TiVo will produce Macrovision on the analog outs to try to prevent recording. My guess is that this new unit will refuse to burn Macrovision-protected shows to DVD-R, and that w

  • hm (Score:5, Funny)

    by Frac ( 27516 ) on Thursday June 26, 2003 @04:12AM (#6300910)
    The options include both 80 and 120GB models, starting at a not-inexpensive $1199, and there's more information via a CNET News article.

    not-inexpensive? I know slashdot editors aim for obscurity, but what's wrong with "expensive"?

  • And, before the "I can make a tivo" people post... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Moderation abuser ( 184013 ) on Thursday June 26, 2003 @04:16AM (#6300921)
    No, you can't. I've seen the systems and they are pathetic in comparison to a £200 tivo.

    It's like buying a replica ferrari, it may look like a good idea but it doesn't have the performance.

    • I've seen the systems and they are pathetic in comparison to a £200 tivo. It's like buying a replica ferrari, it may look like a good idea but it doesn't have the performance.

      Well, Tivos are not available in all countries, so systems like MythTV provide at least a subset of the functionality of a Tivo, which is better than nothing at all.

      Personally, I'm fairly happy with MythTV. It is certainly much more convenient than a VCR for recording (just select the show from the EPG), and the ability

    • That's just not true... Tivo is practically just regular PC hardware.

      All that is needed is much better _software_, and we should all know that can be done.
      • Tivo is practically just regular PC hardware.

        Yeah, except for the $200-300 specialty MPEG encoder. And yes, I know what's involved in a Mythtv box - for a dual tuner model, right now, it takes at least a 2000+ processor. And while it'll all get cheaper (and Isaac gets the hardware encoders working), so will this thing. I have a Panasonic DMR-HS2, and I absolutely love the thing. Provided this thing has a good implementation of the TiVo service, that is...

        • except for the $200-300 specialty MPEG encoder.

          Two things to be said... First off, I know many ATI All-in-Wonder cards do much processor off-loading, and they are well less than $200. Second, MPEG encoding is just a matter of CPU power, and my 800MHz Athlon could probably do MPEG2 encoding in realtime at 640x480. If not, it's very close to being able to. You don't need a AMD XP 2000+ unless you want to do realtime MPEG4 encoding...

          And while it'll all get cheaper (and Isaac gets the hardware encoders

        • And somewhere, a pin is placed upon a map (Score:4, Funny)

          by Sloppy ( 14984 ) * on Thursday June 26, 2003 @01:23PM (#6304819) Homepage Journal
          And yes, I know what's involved in a Mythtv box - for a dual tuner model, right now, it takes at least a 2000+ processor.
          The above words were uttered, and everyone so implicitly understood the words, without qualifying remarks or context clarification, that the event went unnoticed. It was so normal, so mundane. Who would look at it and think twice? Why would they?

          Deep at AMD headquarters, the intelligence report arrived.

          "Here's the latest batch, sir."

          "Hmm.. I see.. Hmm.. Oh! What's this?"

          "It was a comment on Slashdot, sir. Someone used our notation for referring to the approximate speed of a microprocessor. But they didn't actually mention our name or the product's name. No unit of measurement or anything. Just a number with a postfix plus sign. And everyone knew what it meant. It was completely implicit."

          The strategist smiled and pulled an Intel pin off a map, replacing it with the AMD pin. He leaned back in his chair and squinted at the map, nodding with satisfaction.

    • I know you're trolling, but

      Just quickly :
      - there are no tivo available in countries other than US and UK (canada ?).

      - and the other PVR are currently at prices more in the 1000â range.

      Maybe for people technically savvy enough to build their own PVR with some customized software,

      - they don't need the ease of use of tivo
      - they don't want to buy features and prefer instead more customized/eable solutions

      I was also thinking that, but fed up of waiting for it and now that my mythtv system is build, gue
      • - there are no tivo available in countries other than US and UK (canada ?).


        And since Thomson stopped making them a while back, there's no TiVos available in the UK, either (unless you want to trawl eBay and pay over the odds).
      • No point in Canada last I looked - you just can't get the listings. Never seen a Tivo for sale here.

        Bell Expressvu (Satellite company), offers a receiver with an integrated PVR which works very well (it'll even allow you to tape PPV stuff), 30 hour HDD, 1 hour buffer....I've been happy with it, although I think Tivo's have more bells and whistles.
    • The standard Tivo (though not the unit talked about here) is a good value for the money. It would be hard or impossible to build a similar system for the same price. However, when you build your own system, you can go beyond what a Tivo can do. For example, HDTV -- I can pop an HDTV card in my computer and record; Tivo has no models with HDTV capability, though there may be one offered later this year. Plus, with a home-built, you can skip the monthly fee.

      I think the only truly unique capability in a Tivo
    • What makes most of them pathetic is the complexity of the software. TiVo's software is limited but does its assigned job well.

      If you don't want to build a super-TiVo from scratch but like the idea of hacking your own changes and additions, you may want to look at Telly [interact-tv.com]. It's built off a Linux base but you get the hardware and software package already integrated and ready to go.

  • Everything comes up short... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by evilviper ( 135110 ) on Thursday June 26, 2003 @04:21AM (#6300935) Journal
    Why can't anyone make what consumers want?

    Tivo would be great if it didn't require on-going charges (and doesn't allow anyone to screw around with the installed software).

    Throwing a DVD burner into the mix is a great step-up, but only if there is some way to edit the program before burning it... I don't want to have a copy for 50 years on DVD that starts with the end of the program before it, has commercial breaks in the middle, etc. It wouldn't take much work to give editing functionality (even if edited content must be burned to DVD and can't be watched from the hard drive, I can live with that.)

    So, when are we going to see some such system? Or are we going to have to wait until someone releases a distro that does all this on PC hardware?
    • Or are we going to have to wait until someone releases a distro that does all this on PC hardware?

      Yes.

    • Re:Everything comes up short... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Babbster ( 107076 ) <aaronbabb@@@gmail...com> on Thursday June 26, 2003 @05:08AM (#6301038) Homepage
      Throwing a DVD burner into the mix is a great step-up, but only if there is some way to edit the program before burning it... I don't want to have a copy for 50 years on DVD that starts with the end of the program before it, has commercial breaks in the middle, etc. It wouldn't take much work to give editing functionality (even if edited content must be burned to DVD and can't be watched from the hard drive, I can live with that.)

      Part of the reason that PVRs like Tivo and ReplayTV still exist (though Replay has been sued, encouraging them to remove some features) is that they DON'T edit the originally broadcasted content. Providing easy-to-use editing features in a box like this - particularly in reference to commercials - will ensure litigation and will make it more likely that said litigation will be successful.

      This is of even greater concern to content producers since more and more television shows are being released in pre-recorded DVD sets and being able to easily make commercial-free DVDs of TV shows at home would cut into that market.

      • Okay, so since ReplayTV has been sued anyhow, why not give the finger to the studios, and include the features they don't want?

        Ahhh, sweet revenge...

        will ensure litigation and will make it more likely that said litigation will be successful.

        Even with the current hardware, litigation is almost ensured. I sincerely doubt that it will be sucessful, but even if it is, it will only lead to Tivo/Replay being forced to remove those features that are deemed illegial. You might as well say Betamax/VHS maker sh

    • Re:Everything comes up short... (Score:5, Informative)

      by Pedersen ( 46721 ) on Thursday June 26, 2003 @05:47AM (#6301125) Homepage
      You wanna burn to DVD? Here ya go:
      • MythTV [mythtv.org], also used to edit commercials out of the recording
      • MythMkMovie [icelus.org], used to make DivX files

      After that, burn to DVD to your heart's content. Oh, and MythMkMovie is getting ready for the 1.0 release finally (within the next two weeks it looks like).
      • These stories have wonderful timing...

        Check out my post on the previous story: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=68945&cid=630 0 917

        Ironically, that is only the most recent difficulty I've experienced with getting Linux to act as a multimedia box... Before I bough the brooktree card, I had bought an ATI All-in-Wonder that I spent weeks trying to get working, but gave up because of the poor quality of Gatos drivers and software. It's really unfortunate... I just can't seem to win, no matter what
    • Tivo would be great if it didn't require on-going charges (and doesn't allow anyone to screw around with the installed software).

      If you don't want monthly charges, you can get a lifetime subscription. It's a bit expensive, but it increases the value of the Tivo if you were to resell it.

      Throwing a DVD burner into the mix is a great step-up, but only if there is some way to edit the program before burning it..

      Right now you have no way of legally getting the movie off of the Tivo (besides playing it to

  • Everyone has me to thank for this.... (Score:5, Funny)

    by jaylen ( 59655 ) on Thursday June 26, 2003 @04:22AM (#6300937)
    ... since if I had not just bought a Tivo last week, and a DVD recorder the month before, this would never have happened.

    *sobs*

    _____
    Jaylen

  • Here is some other model like this one... (Score:4, Informative)

    by SCiPS ( 672691 ) on Thursday June 26, 2003 @04:24AM (#6300943) Journal
    But more powerfull ... and older... The first is already known by a lot of people fujitsu-siemens Activy [fujitsu-siemens.com] and work under XP embbed.
    The second is less known and the site is not in english but it works really well. Dreambox [dreambox.li] and run under Linux !
  • I'd have thought that by now people would have started building the thing into the actual sets. It somehow seems more logical to do it that way than combine it with a DVD player.

    • Re:Why is Tivo still a set top box? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Osty ( 16825 ) on Thursday June 26, 2003 @04:53AM (#6301000)

      I'd have thought that by now people would have started building the thing into the actual sets.

      That's an easy one. People are far more likely to buy a $400 set top box than a $2000 TV. As well, people are more likely to agree to pay a subscription fee for a cheaper piece of hardware. If you put this into their TV set and then tell them they have to pay extra to get full functionality, they'll look at you funny and then call you an idiot if you think they're going to buy a $2000 TV that requires them to keep on paying. Finally, a STB is portable. If I want to have the Tivo in my bedroom on the small TV, but move it to the big TV in the entertainment room when I want to watch certain recorded shows, I can. If it's built into my TV in the entertainment room, I can't watch it in the bedroom, and vice versa (yeah, you can solve that with a networking solution, but then that requires another box, or another TV set with more built-in functionality, for more money).


      Could TiVO partner with a TV manufacturer to build the functionality into a model line? Sure. Should they? Probably. Will they? Probably not.

    • Personally, I avoid all TV's with other video components built into them. A TV is a large, heavy item, and repairing it is a big production. Not to mention the fact that I can't watch TV at all until it gets back from the shop. I want my TV to be a simple and trouble-free as possible, and all ancilliary components to be in separate, small boxes.
      • But do most people prefer to do this? Since you're posting on /. I'll assume you are not afraid of wires. Some people are though. A TiVO in a setup is a scary prospect for a lot of people. Here's how my system was configured:

        SCART from Cable box to TiVO
        SCART from TiVO to VCR
        SCART from TiVO to TV
        Aerial connection from wall to TiVO
        Aerial connection from tivo to VCR
        Aerial connection from VCR to TV
        Telephone connection from TiVO to wall socket
        Cable connection from wall to cable box
        Plugs to all 4 un

  • Great idea.. if implemented right (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Eric(b0mb)Dennis ( 629047 ) * on Thursday June 26, 2003 @04:30AM (#6300954)
    This is a great idea, but it really depends on how well the implement the DVD burning from the harddrive.. This will need to have editing options to cut out commercials.. and that will bringe a whole wave of trouble onto the makers... replay TV fiasco, anyone? The real ticket would be fully editable shows, networking capability (at least 1394... that would be neat.. would encourage people to buy this instead of just a stand alone DVD recorder) Transfering all those babylon 5 SVCDs to this then burning them would be pretty sweet...

    • Re:Great idea.. if implemented right (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Babbster ( 107076 ) <aaronbabb@@@gmail...com> on Thursday June 26, 2003 @05:15AM (#6301056) Homepage
      They don't "need" to have editing options to cut out commercials on the DVDs. VCRs have been quite successful for some time without them. Frankly, the only people THAT concerned about not having commercials on shows they save are the super geeks. Most people are perfectly content with the ability to fast (really fast in the case of PVR and DVD recordings) forward through them.

      Heck, my mom has, through my good graces, had a PVR for quite some time and there are still times when she doesn't even bother skipping commercials...me, I get a crawling itch when I can't skip commercials but I'm one of the aforementioned "super geeks" - of course, I'm also lazy (too lazy to process shows through the computer and then burn them commercial-free) so I just buy DVD collections whenever possible.

    • A set-top box and remote control isn't necessarily the best environment for editing video. Video editing is time consuming work, at minimum 2x the run time of the material you're editing to do a good job. For a lot of video you'd just write it as-is to a DVD and save yourself the effort.

  • MPAA? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by FryGuy1013 ( 664126 ) * on Thursday June 26, 2003 @04:30AM (#6300956) Homepage
    Didn't one of the PVR's remove a feature to share recordings between networked PVR's for fear of MPAA lawsuits? This isn't even restricted to the same kind of machines. Now you can record movies off of showtime/hbo automatically and burn them to dvd. I wonder what MPAA will do about this.

    Now if they added commercial skipping and the ability to burn commercial skipped shows to dvd, that would be really pushing things. Hopefully my homebrew PVR box will have a DVD burner soon, and it will be able to do this.

    • Re:MPAA? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Babbster ( 107076 ) <aaronbabb@@@gmail...com> on Thursday June 26, 2003 @05:20AM (#6301066) Homepage
      The difference here is that each copy you give to someone will require buying a DVD-R/RW disc (making this more akin to VCR-style sharing which has already passed the court test) while the ReplayTV show-sharing option didn't require any physical intervention whatsoever and the only thing standing in the way of giving shows away to everyone who wanted them was Internet bandwidth. The ReplayTV show-sharing function was, for all intents and purposes, the same as Kazaa, Gnutella and all the other peer-to-peer PC file sharing programs - the peers were simply task-specific devices (PVRs) instead of general purpose devices (PCs)

    • Re:MPAA? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by UnknowingFool ( 672806 )
      There are some key points. It is unlikely that the implementation of this Tivo/DVD R/W will be targeted by the MPAA.

      1) Sharing video between PVRs is like P2P music sharing today. No exchange of medium (DVD disc) is required. That's why it has probably been removed.

      2) Recording a broadcast is not the same as copying the digital original. In this way, it is no different than a VCR. Only the medium and format has changed but you're still not getting the higher quality orignal.

      3) Pioneer (if they wer

    • Re:MPAA? I'll Bite ;) (Score:5, Informative)

      by jstockdale ( 258118 ) on Thursday June 26, 2003 @09:19AM (#6302398) Homepage Journal
      Comment, Mod, ARRGGH its so hard! :P but I'll bite ...

      The recording of broadcast material (read news/live/tv/movies) by the home/consumer market is explicitly permitted* by the Sony v. Universal ruling [464 US 417 (1984)]. Therefore the MPAA doesn't have a foot to stand on if they attack PVR's which carry features qualitatively equivalent to that available on the VHS platform.

      The issue with PVR's which go a step further to redistribute content to other users on the network is that in redistributing the content in a non-physical form to persons with whom you have loose if any affiliations opens up the end user for copyright infringement proceedings. Burning a DVD and redistributing the content doesn't carry the same issues or implecations as such use is effectively legalized by the Audio Home Recording Act of 1992 and Sony v. Universal as this is seen as private non-commercial redistribution (such as sharing an Audio Tape or CD among friends).

      Again, regarding adding features such as commercial skipping and burning commercial skipped shows to dvd (as the parent post requested), I highly doubt the addition of these features due to the chance, and high incentive, of advertisers then challenging whether or not the device is covered by Sony v. Universal or the AHRA of 1992. No longer is the device merely time-shifting or media-shifting the content, it is altering the content which is not explicitly covered (As far as I know).

      * Note: Ok technically an action is not permitted or legalized by a court ruling, but such wording prevented me from saying: as is established as precedent by the case ...
    • Where in the press release did it say you would be able to PLAY BACK the content you recorded on some other device? For all we know this is some sort of closed proprietary format with copy protection.

      If I were going to announce a device that is outrageously expensive at $1,200 to $1,800 I would certainly want to promote the ability to create standard VCD, SVCD, and DVD discs that would play in any standard player. Unless it can't do that.

  • Hmm (Score:4, Insightful)

    by pokka ( 557695 ) on Thursday June 26, 2003 @04:33AM (#6300968)
    It sounds like a good idea, but most TiVo users who wanted to have more space or convert their collection to DVD have already figured out how to do so with minimal investment (TiVoNet, DVD-R, hard drive) -- much less than the price of this new TiVo.

    Another reason I wouldn't buy one is that I know the HDTV-based [tivo.com] models are due out sometime in the near future, so investing $1,200 in something that will be obsolete in 1-2 years seems like a bad idea.

    Still, it's nice for brand new users who have never owned a PVR and don't know how to use telnet.

    • Most? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by sfgoth ( 102423 ) on Thursday June 26, 2003 @01:16PM (#6304748) Homepage Journal
      most TiVo users who wanted to have more space or convert their collection to DVD have already figured out how to do so with minimal investment (TiVoNet, DVD-R, hard drive)

      I suppose you think "most" = you and your friends.

      Of the people I know with Tivos, including myself, about half have upgraded the hard drive. And none of them have set up video offloading, because we don't have the time to maintain such a cumbersome hack.

      The half that haven't upgraded are generally our parents, who think the Tivo is the coolest thing ever, and would gladly buy a new unit instead of voiding the warentee.

      Still, it's nice for brand new users who have never owned a PVR and don't know how to use telnet.

      Which describes 249 Million Americans who don't own a PVR yet pretty well. I think they have a killer product on their hands, although it is a bit pricy.

      -pmb

  • Have we really come that far? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by thelandp ( 632129 ) on Thursday June 26, 2003 @04:34AM (#6300969)
    And after all that technology, is it really that much better than a VHS VCR?

    The biggest difference my parents are aware of is they can't fast-forward the copyright warnings on DVDs...

    • Re:Have we really come that far? (Score:4, Informative)

      by samael ( 12612 ) <Andrew@Ducker.org.uk> on Thursday June 26, 2003 @05:06AM (#6301028) Homepage
      I couldn't live without my Tivo.

      I tell it what shows I like and then I watch it whenever I like. I have no idea what days most shows are even on any more. I just sit down and see that there's a new Futurama or Scrubs or whatever. I don't have to program it with times/dates and I don't have to worry (mostly) about shows moving timeslots every week - the built in episode guide worries about all of that for me.

  • TiVo for Radio Stations? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by leoaugust ( 665240 ) <<leoaugust> <at> <gmail.com>> on Thursday June 26, 2003 @04:39AM (#6300975) Journal

    Just a thought ...

    What would it take to have a TiVo-like service for radio stations, that could be programmed to record all songs by a certain artist, or from an album, or one DJ'd by someone ... (analogous to Kazaalite choice of Song, Album, and User)

    Could we then burn these songs on a DVD or CD from there ....

    Many radio stations could release the playlist in advance to help in the recordings (aka TV listings) and in addition to the Clear Channel (go to hell) stations there could be many many many (maybe millions like kazaalite, or thousands like iTunes) of radio broadcasters ... broadcasting all the songs all the time ...

    just a thought ....

    • Radio limitations (Score:2, Informative)

      by yuri ( 22724 )
      I believe there are limitations on what stations can do. This probably includes things like not posting a playlist in advance.

      In australia I'm pretty sure it limits the number of songs from one artist (or is it album), you can play in a row. To stop people taping a whole album from radio etc.
    • ... TiVo for radio?? Pfeh! In my day sonny you had to sit next to the radio, tape loaded and ready, hand poised over the record button, just waiting for that one song....erm... twenty miles uphill both ways in six feet of snow with your bare feet wrapped in barbed wire for traction all the while listening to the likes of Bananarama, Wham! or Milli Vanilli... Arrrgh!
    • This [thinkgeek.com] may be what you're looking for.

      Actually, if you live near a good college radio station, one of these would be great. My old college station had an awesome old R&B show on Mondays from noon to 2pm along with a Reggae show from 2-5pm on Fridays. Of course, if you're not a college student and you work during the day, you miss the shows if you can't be near a radio.
    • Pogo Radio Your Way [techtv.com]

      According to the review it's not there quite yet, but it's on the way.

  • Macrovision? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Henry Stern ( 30869 ) <henry@stern.ca> on Thursday June 26, 2003 @04:40AM (#6300978) Homepage
    Both units are equipped to transfer old videotapes to longer-lasting DVD-R or DVD-RW discs for more permanent storage. By connecting a VCR via analog inputs to the DVD recorder, transferring content becomes a snap. Unlike videotape, DVD will not degrade over time when exposed to heat and humidity. Transferring home movies from tape to disc will preserve them for future generations. DVD-R discs are best for archiving because they are write-once discs (like CD-R) and cannot be accidentally erased. Once a consumer has transferred their videotape collection to DVD, the VCR is obsolete.

    I wonder what they're doing about Macrovision with this feature. It would hardly be an improvement to copy a VHS casette to a DVD if there were messed up colours and wavy lines.

    • Re:Macrovision? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Osty ( 16825 ) on Thursday June 26, 2003 @04:46AM (#6300986)

      Unlike videotape, DVD will not degrade over time when exposed to heat and humidity.

      But CDs and DVDs do degrade over time. Not in video quality, since that's all digital, but the storage medium itself has been known to rot (mostly CDs and laser discs, since DVDs really haven't been around long enough to see any noticeable deterioration). Sure, they last much longer than tape, and don't degrade with repeated viewings, but to say that they won't degrade at all is naive.


      Are there any good long-term storage solutions? I'm talking on the order of decades, not years. Paper's done a pretty good job so far, but even that degrades, and it's a little hard to store digital information in an easily retrievable format on paper.

      • Re:Macrovision? (Score:5, Funny)

        by Surak ( 18578 ) * <.surak. .at. .mailblocks.com.> on Thursday June 26, 2003 @04:53AM (#6301001) Homepage Journal
        Are there any good long-term storage solutions? I'm talking on the order of decades, not years. Paper's done a pretty good job so far, but even that degrades, and it's a little hard to store digital information in an easily retrievable format on paper.

        You young whippersnappers! Obviously, you're not old enough to remember punched cards and paper tape! Stores for decades, easily retrievable!

        • You young whippersnappers! Obviously, you're not old enough to remember punched cards and paper tape! Stores for decades, easily retrievable!

          Actually, although weevils or damp may get to your paper tape, one of the serious contenders for long-term storage is mylar punched tape. If you want to send a time-capsule of earth-porn into space for the aliens then this would be the best bet. Not cheap in terms of per-bit storage, but the aliens will appreciate it.

        • You young whippersnappers! Obviously, you're not old enough to remember punched cards and paper tape! Stores for decades, easily retrievable!

          I have to agree. I started transferring all of my favorite shows onto punchcards, confident that I'll be able to watch Junkyard Wars fifty years from now if I so desire.

          One of the other advantages you omitted was how easy it is to edit out commercials using punchcard storage -- just pause the deck at the start of the commercial break, then discard the next 1.2

    • Re:Macrovision? (Score:4, Informative)

      by Espen ( 96293 ) on Thursday June 26, 2003 @05:07AM (#6301032)
      I wonder what they're doing about Macrovision with this feature. It would hardly be an improvement to copy a VHS casette to a DVD if there were messed up colours and wavy lines.

      I doubt they do anything about Macrovision at all. Macrovision is applied to 'copy-protect' pre-recorded material which I suspect Tivo/panasonic have no interest in disabling with this feature. So, you will be fine with things you have recorded on tape yourself, but Macrovision will probably kick in with pre-recorded material. If you find it annoying, you should have thought about that when you handed over your cash for the copy protected tape in the first place!
      • that's not entirely true.. macrovision may be included in the encoding of a video, but it can also be injected on the video out of a VCR.. and on the output of a DVD player..

        Macrovision on my Apex DVD player is done by the video output chip. I have a hacked rom installed that turns off that "feature" of the video output chip. Since DVD's are mpeg2 video, there is no macrovision encoding on the DVD itself.

  • SCO? (Score:3, Funny)

    by GreatDrok ( 684119 ) on Thursday June 26, 2003 @04:45AM (#6300982) Journal
    I don't see what this has to do with SCO. I read scodot.org for all the SCO news, not for some unrelated tosh about a piece of kit which is guaranteed to have the MPAA kicking your door down!

    • Re:SCO? (Score:3, Funny)

      by WIAKywbfatw ( 307557 )
      I don't see what this has to do with SCO. I read scodot.org for all the SCO news, not for some unrelated tosh about a piece of kit which is guaranteed to have the MPAA kicking your door down!

      Tivo runs on Linux (get your Tivo code here [tivo.com]), so this is a SCO story after all.

      Some people thought you were kidding but you know and I know that you were being deadly serious, right buddy?

  • Somebody actually wants my money. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Bartab ( 233395 ) on Thursday June 26, 2003 @04:47AM (#6300990)
    Instead of pandering to the MPAA, and watching sales never really take off, Pioneer has decided to submit a potentially profitable piece of hardware to the market.

    Now if it had 30sec forward, I'd actually buy it.

  • TiVo in the UK - homebrew PVR instead? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Mr_Silver ( 213637 ) on Thursday June 26, 2003 @04:52AM (#6300997)
    Since the original hardware manufacturers (Thompson) for TiVo in the UK have pulled out of the market and you can now only get them on eBay - is it actually worth purchasing TiVo if you live on our little island?

    Alternativily I was thinking about purchasing a silent PC (such as the one at Tranquil PC [tranquilpc.co.uk]) and installing MythTV on it, but I don't know how well it would work given that it's a hell of a lot more expensive than TiVo off eBay.

    Also just looking at mini-itx.com [mini-itx.com] I see something called OneBox [oneboxmc.com]. It looks to be running Windows but apparantly it allows you to run MAME on it too.

    So, ignoring the waffle above - what i'm saying is

    1. Is TiVo still a viable option in the UK despite the fact there is no hardware manfacturers? (ie. could they just pull out at any time)
    2. Would a homebrew PVR be better? (it would have to be substantially given that it costs twice as much and requires work from me)
    3. Would the tranquil PC or other box mentioned in the preview /. article be any good as a PVR? (processor power, graphics, IR, to name three things to think about)
    4. Would something like a onebox be better?
    I like Linux and I use it, but I'm loath to spend lots of money on a homebrew kit only to spend several hours tearing my hair out and not getting anywhere. If it's going to be that, I'd rather just pay more and have it work.

    • Re:TiVo in the UK - homebrew PVR instead? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Qube ( 17569 ) on Thursday June 26, 2003 @05:25AM (#6301079)
      Short answer: yes. A proper TiVo is worth getting.

      I believe it is a viable service in the UK. They have around 35,000 subscribers, all either having paid the 200ukp lifetime or 10ukp a month. The guide data (listings, descriptions, etc) is prepared by Tribune and will cost them significantly less than the subscriber cost. Add on a little overhead for running 0800 numbers, their own servers and a few staff and you're still making a fortune. Customer service is handled by Sky, but could be outsourced anywhere if Sky dropped them. I just don't see why they'd cut off a source of revenue (albeit a small one) and effectively shut the door on their return to the UK.

      Homebrew - they're "better" in the sense that you can do other things with them. Run MAME, get your email, play DVDs and MP3s and other nifty stuff. I'm still not impressed by the actual TV recording and playback. I like things that have one task and do it very well - TiVo is in that category. I have consoles to play games on, and if I want to check my email in front of the TV I'll just grab my laptop.

      I was really quite skeptical about the monthly subscription, but thought I'd give it a go for a couple of months. It's hard to get across how convenient it is to just forget about TV schedules and just have a box that gets the programmes you like whenever they're on and has them ready for when you feel like watching. That is what really separates the proper PVRs from the homebrew ones, that require far more checking, faffing about and general irritation.

      If mine blew up tomorrow and it cost me twice as much to replace it, I would. It's worth every penny.
    • I would do it for two reason, provided I was just getting antenna reception.
      1) still has more room then a single tape in a VCR, and you can record and play at the same time.
      2) more record time slots, the best VCR I ever say could record 8 different times. Tivo is near unlimited.
      Granted I would not pay to activate the service, just would enough to set the time ever so often.

  • Format for DVD-R/RW storage? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Will this use TiVo's own closed file format or will disk created with TiVo/DVD Burner be playable with standard DVD-players?
  • Someone should make a set-top-box thats a cross between:
    A PC
    A Games machine (perhaps)
    A PVR
    A DVD player/burner

    Basicly, it would be a quiet-design, small-size PC with reasonable hardware and in a box that works well with your home entertainment box. Give it a USB thingo with a keyboard and trackball to use as input. And make it so you can plug in things like digital cameras, gamepads etc.
    Then build in a ethernet port for network access and TV in/out for display and input of stuff.
    And give it a big disk to st
  • It is a shame they won't do this for the DirecTivo sat receiver.

    However, since that would allow you to in effect grab the high-grade MPEG data stream the sat service puts out without any degradation, it is roughly as probable they release a DTivo with DVD (a DVDDTivo?) as Bill Gates giving RMS a big French^WFreedom Kiss.

    (and you cannot easily use TivoNET to extract the video from a DTivo - it is stored in an encrypted form on the HD and is decrypted by hardware upon playback, and as far as I know nobody h
  • ... you can download the ISOs of your favorite TV programs (from any number of websites or P2P networks), burn it to CD with your existing burner (VCD format), then toss it in your fairly-new DVD player and watch it on TV? Savings: $1200.

    Granted, the biggest issue here is sophistication: you need to know how to convert the media to VCD or whatever, how to burn files to CD-R, where to go to get the ISOs, etc. But as with all things, Linux especially, the more technically savvy you are, the less dependent
    • Hmm, aren't you forgetting something:

      - 50$ per month for your internet connection is 600$ per year
      - finding, downloading, checking, burning takes a lot of time. I for one value my free time.
      - VCD quality is a lot worse than VHS.

  • In related news (Score:4, Funny)

    by stinky wizzleteats ( 552063 ) on Thursday June 26, 2003 @08:12AM (#6301742) Homepage Journal

    The heads of the MPAA executives exploded simultaneously today, for reasons unknown as of the time of this writing. Witnesses say they made a gurgling noise shortly before the intracranial blasts, just after being handed their daily printed media summary which included a digest of that day's Slashdot articles. Investigation continuing...

  • Replay TV with a PC (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I have a Replay TV 5040 and a PC with DVArchive software and a DVD+R/RW drive. The DVArchive software transfers the mpg files off the RTV every night and stores them on the PC. I can then edit the file with any mpg editing tool and burn to a DVD.

    -Jase
  • MPAA lawyers just joined every cable and broadcast network's lawyers in filing a class action suit againt Tivo...
  • You can pull this off for less than half the price
    by building a Mythtv box.

  • Full Tivo or the newly announced Tivo Lite? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by swb ( 14022 ) on Thursday June 26, 2003 @10:27AM (#6303086)
    There have been some stories about Tivo licensing their software in a 'lite' version which lops off some of the functionality (wishlists, season passes and only 3 days of guide data) to electronics manufacturers but doesn't cost anything.

    I wonder if the Pioneer device is using FULL Tivo software or if its just the lite version. I would think that Tivo would find life a little hot under the collar if they started offering more automated archival options for programming under the full Tivo banner.

    Or have Tivo decided to do something to counteract this by using nonstandard disk formats, ultra-low bitrates, no a/b editing, or even CSS encryption or other gimmicks to make the DVD copies less than desirable?
    • RTFA!

      Both the DVR-57H and the DVR-810H offer consumers the TiVo Basic(TM) service with no monthly fee upfront. Consumers will get DVR functionality such as; pausing live TV, recording from the program guide, manual repeat recording by time and date and three days of program guide data. Consumers can upgrade their TiVo service at any time, to include features such as a fourteen-day program guide, Season Pass(TM), WishList(TM) and Search by Title.

  • TV huh? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by TheRaven64 ( 641858 ) on Thursday June 26, 2003 @10:43AM (#6303255) Journal
    You know, most of us with cable TV / cable broadband have enough bandwidth to download TV shows from the 'net. I'm really surprised that the cable company hasn't worked this out yet. If they were to implement a pay-per-program service, using something like bittorrent in the cable box, I would be one of the first to subscribe.

    If I like the simpsons, I should be able to select 'simpsons' from a menu of this season's TV and have it downloaded to my box whenever a new one is released.

    By using sensible proxying, relaying etc they would not need much more bandwidth than they already use for TV. If they ran it on a closed hardware platform then they wouldn't have any of the concerns associated with putting the shows on the 'net, since it would be a private network only accessible by their hardware much as the current cable system is (okay, so you can crack the cable TV system and get free movies, but how many people actually bother, as a percentage?)

  • Toshiba has a better deal: only $599 (Score:4, Informative)

    by backdoorstudent ( 663553 ) on Thursday June 26, 2003 @11:31AM (#6303750)
    Toshiba will also release a similar recorder for $599 as well as a player/tivo device for only $299. http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/news/newsarticle.asp?n ewsid=107
  • DirecTivo + Turbonet ethernet adapter + your choice of extraction tools (MSFTP, Tytool, Tystudio) + your DVD authoring/burning tool of choice.

    That said... its a fair number of steps (although getting less each day) and is definately beyond the technical means of your average "Joe."

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