The Introvert Advantage 684
| The Introvert Advantage: How to Thrive in an Extrovert World | |
| author | Marti Olsen Laney, Psy.D. |
| pages | 330 |
| publisher | Workman |
| rating | 9 |
| reviewer | Andy McFadden |
| ISBN | 0761125892 |
| summary | What it means to be an introvert, and how to cope with the other 75% of the population. |
Most people don't understand what introversion is. I certainly didn't, despite delusions to the contrary. The book begins by explaining what being an "innie" is all about, using a light conversational tone and experiences from the (introverted) author's life. A number of misconceptions are examined and dispelled. For example, introversion is not shyness or a lack of social skills. It's temperament, hard wired in your genetic code, and cannot be altered. To give some flavor to the remarks, examples of introverts from fiction and real life (e.g. Abraham Lincoln, Michael Jordan, Steve Martin) are listed.
The book includes what has to be one of the weakest personality tests ever devised. The goal is to determine if you're an introvert, but it appears that most responsible adults qualify. Some of my clearly extroverted friends got nearly the same scores as introverts. Skip it.
That test aside, the author does an excellent job of reducing the difference between introverts and extroverts to one of energy levels. Extroverts have more energy -- and recharge by being around large groups of other people, while introverts have less, and recharge by being alone or with a very small group of close friends. The very things that energize "outies" will drain "innies," leading to the "party pooper" perception.
One of the strongest parts of the book is a discussion of the physiology of introversion. Differences in the dominance of sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems (the "fight or flight" and "throttle down" feedback systems) explain why introverts tend to go through the day at a lower energy level than extroverts. Introverts tend to be less vocal and more "blank", especially when mixed into groups of active extroverts.
The discussion of brain chemistry is equally fascinating: introverts use different neurochemicals for memory, which is why it can take some time (and perhaps REM sleep) for information to fully settle and process. Hence the tendency for great ideas to occur during the morning shower. The chemical mix also explains why the sorts of events that stimulate extroverts can quickly over-stimulate and wear out introverts.
Dealing with Extroverts
The second part of the book is about dealing with significant others, children, and co-workers. The first chapter has sections on different relationship pairings (introvert male with extrovert female, introvert female with extrovert male, introvert with introvert). These are insightful and, frankly, would have saved me some grief had I read them a number of years ago. The author gives specific tips for improving communication and understanding in each situation.The chapter on parenting gives tips on identifying introverted children and coping with them. This will be more useful for an extroverted parent, who perhaps doesn't understand why sitting quietly and reading has such a strong appeal. The chapter also has tips for introverted parents with extroverted kids, who need a little more outward show than the parents are perhaps used to giving.
A section on socializing and small talk is in this section, but such things have been covered more extensively in books on overcoming shyness.
Introverts and extroverts often rub up against one another in the workplace. In the last chapter in this section, the author raises a number of issues and suggests ways to cope with them. For example, introverts tend to immerse themselves in a particular project, and like to work without interruption for extended periods. Intrusions disrupt concentration, and regaining it takes time and energy. Extroverts enjoy the occasional interruption, because it gives them an energizing break and avoids monotony. Both sides expect the other to feel the same way, so extroverts interrupt others with quick questions (which annoys the introvert), and introverts try to avoid interrupting others (which makes extroverts see introverts as aloof). The chapter also discusses participation in meetings, giving presentations, and just dealing with people who "interface" differently.
There are other books on relationships, parenting, and on dealing effectively with others in the workplace. This is not the book that puts all others to shame, but if you're an introvert it covers the essentials.
Living in an Extroverted World
The last part of the book discusses strategies for living in a world dominated by extroverts. How to manage your time, schedule your life in a way that won't cause overstimulation, how to re-energize through aromatherapy. There is some good advice here, but nothing really new or insightful.The author points out that 75% of people are extroverts, and suggests that might explain why the quick-thinking life of the party is idealized. Introverts often have self-esteem problems because they can't be what most of the world wants them to be. The point of this book is to teach introverts why they are the way they are, to show them which aspects of their personality are immutable and which can be changed, and most of all to show that that there is nothing about introversion that requires making excuses.
Much of the value of this book is in the first third, where the psychology and physiology of introversion are treated as an integral whole. Discovering that personality quirks and the desire to ask "how long are we planning to stay at the party" are normal and expected behaviors is liberating. (I'll be launching the Introvert Liberation Front shortly.) The later sections range from "just okay" to very good, but even if you've seen such before it's worthwhile to get a different perspective. Other books -- many of which are listed in the bibliography -- have covered these topics with greater depth or breadth, but the focus on looking at life from an introvert's perspective separates this from most of them.
I highly recommend this book to introverts or to extroverts with an introvert in their life. (If you work in high tech, you're probably one or the other.)
You can purchase The Introvert Advantage: How to Thrive in an Extrovert World from bn.com. There is also a web site for the book, with merchandise, downloadable pamphlets, and discussion forums. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.
Hm, not an introvert (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Hm, not an introvert (Score:2)
Preverts, Perverts and Proverts..
which are you?
Re:Hm, not an introvert (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Hm, not an introvert (Score:2)
"FREE porn ALL day long!"
yes.. just what I always wanted!
The obligatory joke... (Score:5, Funny)
A: The introverted computer geek will look at his shoes while he talks to you. The extroverted computer geek will look at your shoes while he talks to you.
obligatory Russian joke... (Score:5, Funny)
A: His shoes look at you while he is talking.
Re:obligatory Russian joke... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:obligatory Russian joke... (Score:3, Funny)
No, you should get out less! With all your partying and socializing, you don't have time to keep up with your Slashdot reading, and miss all the in-jokes...
Re:The obligatory joke... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:The obligatory joke... (Score:5, Insightful)
Unfortunately, it's also made me a lot of enemies out of people who think that geeks should not be so extroverted...
I don't mean the following to sound harsh, but this behavior is typical of introverts.
The reason it annoys people is because you're not being extroverted, you're just seeking attention. An extrovert enjoys making *social* connections to people. You're not connecting with people; you're just hoping they will notice you as a substitute for a true connection.
A similar thing that introverts due (and geeks are notorious for) is replacing true conversation with being a walking encyclopia. Someone talks about the weather, and the geek goes on to explain strato cumulous clouds. It's not a conversation, it's a plea for attention. "Aren't I clever that I understand clouds".
Re:The obligatory joke... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:The obligatory joke... (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, you started off great, but also ended with a sweeping generalization. Introvert does not imply smart, and extrovert does not imply dumb.
Re:The obligatory joke... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The obligatory joke... (Score:3, Insightful)
Exactly one of the things that has started to bug me more than a little bit. Honestly I love to duel, and a good argument is well worth the time (even if I were on a lawyer's salary :). But... a duel is
Introverts converse for different reasons (Score:5, Insightful)
I disagree - Many introverts see conversation as a medium for exchanging information. When a "geek" explains what he/she knows about a current topic, they are doing several things:
Most introverts could care less about the attention, (we'll skip the obligatory Maslow's Hierarchy [google.com] comment) and will often keep silent regarding a topic to avoid drawing attention to themselves. Indeed, many introverts find that "being clever" is the best way to attract the ire of those around them. Many introverts find conversation to be of less interest unless the energy expended to talk to a person garners something in return... like new information or trivia. (Introverted conversations often start "Did you know that....".)
Let's remember that there are reasons to have a conversation that don't involve "social connections" of the extroverted ilk. Introverts communicate differently and for different reasons.
Re:Introverts converse for different reasons (Score:3, Insightful)
It seems like a no win situation, its either I say nothing and they think I'm not listening, or I saw something I they think I'm being a no it all.
They book sounds a little to Dr. Phil for my tatses but I'll skim it in a BN and maybe pick it up if it can answer some of these questions.
Re:Introverts converse for different reasons (Score:4, Interesting)
These people who talk about nothing KNOW there is no substance to their character, and instead seek out other empty lives to assure them that their lives have some measure of value. It is like two mirrors facing one another... the emptiness repeating into the great abyss of nothingness.
That is the key term, nothingness... or nihilism. The common man today is hardly human in any true meaning of the term. He feels no great impulse to create or discover. For him... life is about seeking external assurance of his base humanity.
One of the most sad aspects of such behavior is POSSIBLE in this modern world. Imagine 1000 years ago, before modern weapons began to surface... A blabbering idiot, desperate for social interaction. Can you imagine such a warrior behaving in that fashion? Would such a people survive if their only defense were chatterboxes? I think not.
Our people know in their hearts that focused stoicism is the essential character of warriors, artists, scientists... It is reviled by the masses because it the truest evidence that they are none of these things. They are merely "consumers" at best, and slaves at worst.
Re:The obligatory joke... (Score:5, Insightful)
Not that most reasonably intelligent introverts could stand a typical "how's the weather" small talk for very long. The thing is you always have to know your strenghts and play on those in a way that gets you connected to people. Many geeky types are very good listeners and do know how to ask questions that can get people to think about something in a different way.
The ability to stimulate someone else's mind in the way that they can stimulate their own is an incredibly useful skill. This also far more useful than simply trying to emulate the typical conversations extrovert-types engage in with each other and only end up being frustrated.
The two things to remember are empathy and practice.
Re:The obligatory joke... (Score:4, Insightful)
I agree. I find 'casual' conversation very difficult, but if the conversation turns to more of a discussion, where different ideas are presented and debated, I find it much easier. Many people accuse me of being 'combative' because of this. They do not realize that I am not out to "win" the debate, but merely discuss different viewpoints and expand my thinking.
Re:The obligatory joke... (Score:3, Informative)
I've taken to using a Socratic approach instead. Ask questions to introduce the realm of the subject or topic. Otherwise, people just don't get that your trying to get the range of the topic instead of bowing to the "mob" mentality where people go along with what everyone else thinks just to "get along".
Re:The obligatory joke... (Score:3, Informative)
I get accused of this all the time. People think that because I am raising my voice, or asking hypothetical, and usually contradictory, questions, I am directly attacking them. They get mad at me because I appear to be going hostile on them, when the reality is that I am just getting caught up in, what is becoming, a very interesting conversation.
Even with my brother, who probably knows me better than anyone else in the world, thinks that I am out to make him look dumb when we talk/argue about thi
Re:The obligatory joke... (Score:4, Insightful)
You can't be in close proximity to people in most enviroments without talking or the situation feels awkward and uncomfortable. So you talk about the weather. But after a short time, there's nothing more to say and without conversation, here comes the awkward silence. Talking about cloud types or pressure systems or whatnot will at least extend the conversation and might even lead to another topic. Calling this behavior a plea for attention is absurd.
Talk about what you're interested in and sooner or later you'll find other people with similar interests. Talk about the weather all the time and you'll find people with nothing interesting to say and nothing in common with you.
What a BIG joke (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't mean the following to sound harsh, but this behavior is typical of introverts.
I don't mean the following to sound harsh, cause extroverts are good and righteous people, but this behavior is so typical of these... introverts.
The reason it annoys people is because you're not being extroverted, you're just seeking attention. An extrovert enjoys making *social* connections to people. You're not connecting with people; you're just hoping they will notice you as a substitute for a true connection.
The reason it annoys people is because you're not being extroverts, you can never be elite, you're just seeking attention, something extroverts don't need to do, it's beneath an extrovert. An extrovert enjoys making *social* connections to people, something the introvert can't understand, cause an introvert neither enjoys talking nor appreciates what social connections are. Hell if they know what being *social* is all about. You're not really connecting with people, that's an illusion; you're just hoping they will notice you, only extroverts are gifted with true connection.
A similar thing that introverts due (and geeks are notorious for) is replacing true conversation with being a walking encyclopia. Someone talks about the weather, and the geek goes on to explain strato cumulous clouds. It's not a conversation, it's a plea for attention. "Aren't I clever that I understand clouds".
And quite ironically, a plea for attention and a plea for conversation are not unsimilar. Quite often, drawing attention is one way of drawing conversation. What do you think talking about the weather is? LMAO. It's no better an excuse than talking about strato clouds. Talking about the weather really "connect" you to someone? Or does it open the door for more words?
"Aren't I clever that I understand clouds? I hope you don't mind that I feel insecure. We live with so many billions of people on the world and sometimes it seems like some of us have forgotten how to understand each other. Some people are really good at talking. I have to use an excuse to start a conversation. Just trying to let you know what mood I'm in, how I talk, maybe get an idea of how I see things. I'd really like to talk to you and get to know who you are though. How do you see those clouds? Do they look like elephants to you or something else?"
Re:The obligatory joke... (Score:3, Insightful)
An extroverted/thinker my be more likely to push into serious topics. While this may engage the introverted/thinker, an extroverted/feeler may feel violated or exploited by bringing up serious issues in "casual" conversation.
Re:The obligatory joke... (Score:3, Informative)
This is George W. Bush incognito right!?!?!?
Actually, Alcohol is a depressent. It only helps overly bubbly, intense uptight people. For the introvert, alcohol can make one withdraw much deeper. Those folks are better off with Marijauna which lends a "mellowing" effect which allows them to withstand the inane nonsense coming out of a bubbly extroverts mouth %-)
Re:It has nothing to do with brain chemistry. (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm an introvert. people bore me. I'd much rather sit here and work on my code instead of talk to other people about what I'm doing. I get energy from thinking about what I'm doing and from within myself. I don't NEED other people to energize me. I feel that this is a superior way to live, in fact, because I've been very alone before and I survived it. An extrovert would go stir-crazy and do things that might not be the best for them just to avoid being alone. Not needing others, b
Re:I've been an extrovert before. (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't think that you chose to change from extrovert to introvert so much as you chose to stop acting like an extrovert. A true extrovert wouldn't be capable of not focusing on people because they need to do so in order to recharge their mental energy. A true introvert knows that they need to be alone, and a sm
Re:It has nothing to do with brain chemistry. (Score:5, Interesting)
Its a choice, people make a choice to be introverted or extroverted.
You probably believe that homosexuality is ALSO a choice.
Believe me, introverts are the minority and they often suffer pretty heavily from it. Throughout youth and young adult-hood, the mode of social gatherings is a complete mystery to them.
It's difficult to understand why everyone is having so much fun at a party EXCEPT you. You try hard to act like your having fun, but you can't fake it to yourself. If it was a choice don't you think we would choose NOT to suffer.
Sometime when your not thouroughly satisified that you know everything, you may actually want to do some reading on psychology. You'll find that people do scientific research and have good proof for why some behaviors and characteristics seem based on "nature" and others are based more on "nurture".
Sometimes choice enters the equation, but most often we are almost complete products of our environment or ourselves. The "choices" we make are often made for us long before we ever ponder the question. Typically, when things aren't working out right, you know you actually overcame your biology and "chose" something against your nature.
For example, right now I'm assuming that you didn't "choose" to be an ignorant, arrogant ass-hole. Something in your nature or upbringing led you to this point. You can overcome the ignorance through LISTENING and READING beyond your knowledge. However, you may indeed ALWAYS be an ass-hole!!!!
Re:could you point me to the research please (Score:5, Insightful)
One thing is in common, they dont like being around people, why? Well most of them had bad experiences with people in the past.
Kinda like a rape victim suddenly doesnt like to be around guys, or a person who would always get chased by dogs would hate being around dogs.
Re:could you point me to the research please (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not sure I quite agree with that. I think this may be a chicken-and-the-egg scenario.
Take me for example. I tend towards the introverted side, at least in that I don't care for large social engagements (even as I type this, my colleagues at work are on the department picnic, and I declined to attend because it's just not my scene).
Now, when I was growing up, I admit to being the one that was picked on and bullied a lot. But from my recollections, and what my Dad tells me, I was always on the reserved side. So it's not a cut-and-dry case with me. Did I become introverted because of being picked on, or did I get picked on because I was introverted? Tough call.
I decline to go to social engagements not because I don't like being around people, but simply because there are usually other things I would rather be doing that happen to be more inward-focused, or focused towards my wife and I (who is also introverted, and from her background, might also dispute the which-came-first argument).
Online "extroverts" (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:could you point me to the research please (Score:3, Interesting)
Someone arguing that "It has nothing to do with brain chemistry", when challenged to back that up writes:
How splendid for you. Meanwhile, Dr. Jerome Kagan at Harvard University is busily doing studies which link brain chemistry to temperament, in particular introversion. In some of the most compelling recent news [harvard.edu], infants identified as more socially timid, and then discovered to have brain chemistry and respiratory traits in common, ha
Re:Its only painful due to experiience. (Score:3)
Re:Its only painful due to experiience. (Score:3)
I don't remember anything emotionally painful, being bullied, etc. but I do remember some relatives saying 'Gee, why do you ask so many questions?' Or 'You don't have to give me the whole encyclopedi
Re:Its only painful due to experiience. (Score:5, Interesting)
I was tortured and abused throughout my childhood by most of the other kids, and in my twenties when I went back to college (after a stint in the Marine Corps to toughen up and not get picked on anymore) I was older than the other kids and an outsider for a whole new set of reasons. Most of my life, all I wanted was to be left alone with my books, and I had to put up with all kinds of garbage from almost everyone. It wasn't until I was thirty years old and moved upstate, taking a government job (where most of the people are older and more settled) that I finally found a group of people (fellow programmers, of course) who just accepted me as-is, with a minimum of hassle. Of course, they're all pretty introverted too, so it all works out. I've got a nice, quiet working environment with really cool, quiet, hands-off coworkers, and I'm finally happy after all these years.
Outside of work, of course, I'm a hermit.
Because, after all, what would I do around most people? Look at it from my perspective:
I:
So, what the heck would I talk about with people? All their favorite conversational topics are non-starters with me (sex, right-wing politics, sports, television). I talk about my work and their eyes glaze over. I mention anime and they give me this "yeah, ok, great" look. As if their sitcoms were adult fare... We have nothing in common.
I figure, if I don't find a similarly antisocial girl who has the same interests by the time I'm 40, I'm just not going to reproduce. Maybe one day I'll clone myself, just for the techie bragging rights, but probably not.
The real difference (Score:5, Funny)
Myers-Briggs/Jungian types (Score:5, Informative)
Introversion/Extraversion is simply one of many factors - in this organizational scheme, Jungian personality types adapted by Isabel Briggs Myers.
Re:The real difference (Score:5, Insightful)
If we're going to discuss the subject, I should point out that most of these psychological scale type thingies measure introversion-extroversion in two arenas: problem solving and personality. I'm very much an extrovert, in terms of my personality, but I'm an introverted problem solver.
Both of these characteristics have changed over time, so I don't see how it's so interesting.
I think these things say only slightly more about me than my astrological sign. I get the feeling that many of these pop psychology categorizer folks believe in astrology, too, though, so... at least there's one thing we can all agree on.
I'm not sure if that came out right. Anyway, it's hooey.
Misunderstood (Score:5, Funny)
Dr. Laney's book will help millions of introverts understand why they are misunderstood...
I'm pretty sure my fascination with Slashdot contributes to this.
Not my workplace! (Score:5, Funny)
Where does this guy work? :)
If that ever happens around here, the extrovert usually goes "Eeeeeew", and I just shrug it off anyway and go back to reading Slashdot.
Could be a step in the right direction. (Score:5, Interesting)
I gave up the review early on (Score:5, Insightful)
. It's temperament, hard wired in your genetic code, and cannot be altered.
That's taking determinism a bit too far, I think. Genetic, perhaps -- but unalterable? Personality is not as incorrigible as that. There's no reason to assume that introversion is a defect or that it must be reversed, but claiming that it's inherently unalterable is just absurd.
Introverts need to learn a little extroversion just to get along in life. Human beings are social creatures, and generally speaking, two heads are always better than one when solving problems. One doesn't need to make a lifestyle out of it, but IMO the sooner an introvert learns some of the basic "tricks" of reaching out to others, the better.
Re:I gave up the review early on (Score:5, Insightful)
The author does in fact define introversion as hard-wired, much like which hand you write with. After reading the book, it's not a far leap to make -- people think and react differently. [Growing up in a family mix of very introverted and very extroverted people, it was pretty obvious to me.] So, no, technically, it's not going to be altered.
The value of the book comes in pointing out how introverted people function in an extrovert-oriented world; which, as the reviewer said, pretty much happens in the first 1/3 of the book.
If nothing else, this book was a serious eye-opener for me. I'm a *very* extroverted person. My SO is *seriously* introverted -- I don't think I ever really had a clue about why he complained about being overwhelmed so much. Conversely, he never really understood why solitude made me so upset. While it's not the most scientific of books, it's an awfully good point to start a discussion.
Re:I gave up the review early on (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm the kind of person who needs to be around people. Being by myself for too long is not a good thing. I never appreciated the fact that my boyfriend is exactly the opposite -- going out to a movie is kinda draining for him, but it's not even on my radar. Parties are exhausting for him, but I'll go out 4 or 5 nights in a row bef
Re:I gave up the review early on (Score:3, Interesting)
Do we really need to be extroverted, or just pretend to be? I'm reminded of my own situation, where I concluded long ago that to be as introverted as I really am would be career-limiting. So I've learned to pretend to be extroverted when needed. Sufficiently well that few people see if for the act that it is.
But I'm still, deep down, an introvert: once the situation passes and it's time to recharge, I do it by myself. The Introve
Slashbot book review (from the forest in brazil) (Score:3, Interesting)
With this degree of being introverted, I found this book help me reach a deeper understanding of myself. For example, of why I tend to get deeply involved in a subject or get zoned out when I concentrate on something. From that understanding I learn how to manage myself better in relations to others.
Setting several useful tips aside, I believe the understanding alone that I gained from this book give me a deeper self actualization, which in the process helps me see my own strengths and weaknesses. Seeing one's own strengths and weaknesses can certainly enable one to become fuller and lead a richer life.
I very much enjoy reading this book. In a way I felt like reading about myself even though I don't agree 100% with all the characteristics of an introvert as described in the book.
All in all I still recommend it as a very good read, eps. for all of us introverts
What if we just don't like stupidity? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:What if we just don't like stupidity? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What if we just don't like stupidity? (Score:2)
The downside of being better than everyone else is that people tend ot assume you are pretentious. -- Despair.com
Introverted computer geeks love to assume that they are smarter than folks who enjoy American Idol and other shows. A higher breed, or something. It must suck to realize that Sharon Stone has a higher IQ than 99.5% of them.
Re:What if we just don't like stupidity? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:What if we just don't like stupidity? (Score:3, Insightful)
She's the type of person they love to criticize. I've heard tons of people equate her to the dumb blonde persona, especially in the geek circle. I don't know how many times I've heard geeks go off about their intellectual superiority when they are just plain idiots.
Anybody who can't figure out it's a good idea to shower and brush their teeth isn't that smart.
Re:What if we just don't like stupidity? (Score:3, Insightful)
Not just introverts. Pretty much anyone who doesn't watch those shows assumes that those who do are "stupid" in some difficult (not textbook IQ) to define way. Do you think that the only people who think those shows are "stupid" are introverts? Most prime time television is designed for those who like to check their brains at the door. I doubt if you are immune t
Re:What if we just don't like stupidity? (Score:3, Informative)
You have to understand, the most 'geek' types are highly intelligent (by definition, more than the average) and they/we know it. Moreover, we spend a lot more time than average improving our knowledge and skills. Does this make geeks 'better people'? Nope, but they don't have the same interests as the masses, which is exactly who those shows are designed for...
Most geeks couldn't give a fuck about 'reality tv', and the like. They live in a sl
Re:What if we just don't like stupidity? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:What if we just don't like stupidity? (Score:5, Funny)
I would.. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:I would.. (Score:4, Funny)
Now *there's* a plea for attention if I ever saw one. Trying to wow us with your vocabulary, while trolling the grammar nazis because of your missing commas, and going for the "heh" dry humor laugh. I think you're an extrovert just pretending to be an introvert.
You poser. We'll take you down a notch.
There are chemicals to help introverts (Score:5, Funny)
Re:There are chemicals to help introverts (Score:5, Funny)
Re:There are chemicals to help introverts (Score:5, Funny)
Absolutely hardwired... (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.humanmetrics.com [humanmetrics.com] has a great (free) typology test, but you have to remember to be dead honest with yourself when answering the questions (take your time!) once you have your personality type, the net makes it easy to 'find who you are'.
Re:Absolutely hardwired... (Score:4, Interesting)
The first personality test I remember ever doing was something in high school designed to determine what kind of career would be good for me. I can't rememeber the results precisely, but I scored high on maths/science based careers. Computers are close, I suppose. But that test wasn't really designed to find out about me, just what I'd be good at.
A little while later I tried the Myer Briggs personality test, which is quite a common one. It has 16 possible outcomes. You answer a series of questions, and add up the values from the answers to come up with your personality type. I was INTP. [209.15.29.56] You can find out about the other types there also.
After completing this test, I thought that it described me perfectly. An introverted thinker who was far from loving order. The description on this website seems to fit me pretty well. However, I later discovered the Chinese personality types which transformed my understanding of myself, and the Myer Briggs type is no longer adequate... The Chinese talk about five personality types, and everyone is one of these types. It may sound small, like little variety, but you should be surprised by how accurately these describe the variety of human responses. The five types go in a circle, and beginning at an arbitrary point the order is wood, fire, earth, metal , water. There is so much to say about each type, and I wholeheartedly recommend this book [amazon.com]. It describes each type well, and so much of it was me. I will give you a quick rundown anyway. You can find out a very brief and undetailed introduction of the types here [fortuneangel.com]. Wood, which is my type, are opionated, stubborn pioneers who are always moving to something new. Fire is one of the most common types. These are the passionate, talkative people who love to be with others. Earth are the most common type and value loyalty, don't much like change and provide the foundation for our society. Metal are organised people everywhere, they tend to be leaders inside an existing structure, often musically talented. Water are the introverted philosophers who don't much like human contact like everyone else.
Now the interesting thing here is that you express characteristics of the two types next to your own. Since I am a wood, I have fire on my left and water on my right, so I can often show traits from both of these. And here is why I was unsatisfied with Myer Briggs. It described me as an introvert, and that I believed. Chinese personality types showed me that wood is stuck between the most introverted and extroverted types - water and fire. And this rang true more for me than anything else. There are times when I just have to be with people, and there are other times when I just have to get away. It described me more fully than Myer Briggs could even come close to. Going around the circle clockwise (wood->fire->earth->metal->water->wood ) each type feed another. Wood feeds fire, giving fire people energy, rejuvinating them. Fire feeds earth, earth feeds metal and so on.
Take a look at this image. [geocities.com] You can visually see the place of each personality type to another. You will see from wood an arrow going to earth, and from metal an arrow to wood. Every time oppresses another type, and is oppressed by a type. Wood people tend to oppress earth. Wood yearn for change and novelty, to upset the old, while earth thrives on stability and loyalty and don't much like change. Wood also hates authority and longs to break free, while metal loves authority and structure, and so restricts wood. There is so much to learn about each type. To find out what you are, look at the types I described above. You will probably find three
Extrovert Geeks Anonymous (Score:2)
I don't know how it happened. All my geek friends are introverts that really enjoy coding while listening to 30 hour long techno tracks from Europe. While I enjoy techno, I really only grock it when we play Advanced D&D. I have a shorter attention span than most of my friends.
That's about it.
I get the feeling that this article presupposes that most geeks are introverts. Granted there are many that are, but there are many that AREN'T.
Mod me down. I'm a mou
Re:Extrovert Geeks Anonymous (Score:3, Interesting)
Powered by the influence of drugs, this process is amazingly intensive - when you g
Good Link to BN.com (Score:5, Funny)
Introversion/Shyness (Score:2, Interesting)
As a shy extrovert, I can attest to this.
Re:Introversion/Shyness (Score:2)
And as a shy-but-I-got-over-it introvert, I agree.
Comon Sense Rule No. #1 (Score:2, Insightful)
If you are an opinionated introvert try to CHOOSE a significant other WHO IS also an introvert or at least have a backbone.
Sounded Great (Score:3, Informative)
Seriously, I wonder if this book looks at the introvert/extrovert dichotomy as too absolute. I am generally an introverted person (I do, after all, read Slashdot!). However, in some social situations I behave more like an extravert (for example: the quick questions thing mentioned in the review). Pop psychology is perhaps more interesting if everyone fits neatly into one box or the other, but I suspect that reality is much more complex.
That said, this sounds like an interesting read.
Re:Sounded Great (Score:5, Interesting)
The thing is about Myers-Briggs type indicators is that they aren't absolutes, they are preferences. When I was given a Myers-Briggs assessment, here was how the "exactitude" of the types were presented to me:
The assessment booklet was placed before me and next to it was placed a piece of paper. I was asked if I was right or left handed. I told the test administrator that I was a righty and she handed me a pencil and told me to sign my name with my right hand on the piece of paper.
When I had finished making my mark, she asked me then to sign the paper with my left hand. I had a hard time doing it, and really had to concentrate to get anything out of the pencil that remotely looked like what I had produced with my right hand.
The moral to the story and the point I would like to make is what she had then told me next; even though I preferred to write with my right hand I was able to write with my left. My right hand was simply a preference, and a preference that often was more comfortable and produced higher quality output.
Such, as she went on to explain to me, is how the Myers-Briggs preferences are. They are simply preferences. Just because, for example, one is introverted, it does not mean that they cannot be extroverted. It is simply uncomfortable for that particular individual as it is not that particular individual's preference.
-AP
Rationalization (Score:2, Interesting)
I can wrap up my introversion a lot simpler than blaming it on a physiological make up. I have to force myself to take an interest in the people around me.
It has taken me years to realize that other people are actually interesting and may actually be fun to talk to. I have finally learned to rememer their names and activities in their lives. I want to know how things turn out and what is going on. I stopped limiting my personal interest to characters in a novel even though I can inte
Dont know if I agree (Score:5, Insightful)
In my experience low self esteem often occurs because someone cant be what they think the rest of the world wants them to be. Personally I always find this strange because I'm pretty sure the rest of world does not give a shit about me so I dont really care what the world thinks anyway.
The point of this book is to teach introverts why they are the way they are, to show them which aspects of their personality are immutable and which can be changed, and most of all to show that that there is nothing about introversion that requires making excuses.
Is personality, or certain personality traits immutable? I would have thought that with the right stimulation it would be highly mutable. Thats ignoring the fact that we are intelligent enought to recognise our own patterns of behaviour and can suppress our natural instincts if we make that choice.
Re:Dont know if I agree (Score:4, Insightful)
Wait, you, you mean that the whole world doesn't revolve around me? Damn!
I don't think most aspects of personality are immutable for most people. The interaction of genes and environment (and by environment, I include personal thoughts and choices) produce behavior, so change the environment (or simply your view of it) and that will change behavior.
Some natural tendancies, such as depression, would clearly be best to suppress or change. Others such as introversion are not so clearly one sided. Also, it depends on the strength of the underlying genes: some people will never be able to change their depression or their intorversion, some will.
No More Shame (Score:2)
The point of this book is to teach introverts why they are the way they are, to show them which aspects of their personality are immutable and which can be changed, and most of all to show that that there is nothing about introversion that requires making excuses.
He's right! There's no shame in being an introvert! Finally, after all these years, I can come out of the closet!
Oh wait... no, I can't. That's something only an extrovert could pull off properly.
I'd buy a copy (Score:4, Funny)
Introvert vs. extrovert is a made-up distinction (Score:2, Insightful)
I disagree (Score:5, Interesting)
Obviously you're entitled to your opinion, but people do fit into categories. Slobs vs neat freaks, People who go home and watch E! true hollywood story, and those who would rather learn something worthwhile.
Phrenology is based on physical characteristics determining your degree of mongrelism. The degree of a persons introversion is determined by observation of that persons actions/reactions. The scientific method is applied in the latter, whereas the former is rightly qualified as garbage.
I will agree though that it's not quite clean cut on this issue. Put an Extrovert and an introvert in a
I agree. (Score:3, Interesting)
It is entirely possible to act like an "introvert" one day (or whichever timeslice you choose) and an "extrovert" the next.
It's all about finding the appropriate tactic to fit the current situation.
Here's the deal, all you hard-core introvert-types - social skill are like any other skills - they are LEARNED. Some people have an easier time with the learning process than others, and if you are one of those who have a hard time with i
Re:Introvert vs. extrovert is a made-up distinctio (Score:3, Insightful)
But there is no doubt that I find any time that I do not spend alone to be exhausting to some extent or another. I can't sustain intense "people activity" for more than a few days
What a load of crap (Score:2, Flamebait)
I'm introverted and I don't have any self esteem problems and it has nothing to do with what the world wants. I'm introverted because I have found that if people find out that I know how to fix problems (caused by the incompetent extraverts that became extraverts because they had to frequently "reach out" to people that knew how to fix stuff), then they latch deeper into my skin than an alabama tick
Hard wired (Score:2)
You do? There's absolutely no doubt in my mind. It's hard wired. I didn't choose to be an introvert. Why would I deliberately set out to be socially inept, dismissed by others, generally lacking social skills, and looked down upon my the majority of the population?
As it happens, I think I'm better off being who I am, than being one of them. They think they're superior. I know it's the other way round. But I have no desire to correct th
Bah (Score:2, Troll)
Re:Bah (Score:3, Insightful)
Do we still like girls? Yes. Can we get them. Certainly, and very attractive ones if we are attractive ourselves. The ideal life of an extrovert is to have very few, but highly valued h
A Summary of Personality Development (Score:5, Funny)
I will now summarize for you what every one of them came up with.
"This is what happened to me when I grew up. I think this is what basically happens to everyone when they grow up."
I just saved you a semester of hard work.
.
Re:A Summary of Personality Development (Score:3, Funny)
Freud: Everything has to do with penises, penises are why you're crazy
Jung: Everything has to do with your mother, your mother is why your crazy
Skinner: Everyone is full of shit, thats why I'm crazy
An Interesting Article (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm an introvert and I like what the author says about needing to recharge after a few hours of socializing. I find long stretches (ie 6 hours straight) of conversation totally exhausting... I wish I didn't, but that appears to be the way I'm built.
I disagree with all the 'more intelligent', etc. stuff, but maybe some of you will find the article interesting at least...
Another (better, imho) book about this topic (Score:3, Informative)
The main lesson I got out of reading this book was how to deal with extroverted management. I code all day long and after reading this book I realised that much of the friction between my supervisors and I was that they simply didn't know what I did all day long! The book suggested frequently bumping into your supervisor and letting them know how you are doing and how your work is going.
Introverts usually take a task or a problem and mull over it in their mind for long periods of time. They don't feel the need to let their manager know how it's going. Instead, they'd rather just let their manager know when they are done. This inclination doesn't cut it with extroverted managers.
Anyway, my relationships with supervisors have dramtically changed for the better since I started frequently letting them know how things are going...
I highly recommend reading the book I mentioned. Get it from your local library though.... I don't think I liked it so much that I'd recommend buying it, however. It's just good for a couple of pointers.
I made the transition (Score:3, Interesting)
Ummm right.. (Score:3, Interesting)
Some people have LEARED to become introverts when they're naturally extroverted. They get comfortable with where they are, but that doesn't mean they're happy with it.
I'm an excellent example of that. Getting through college was tough, I had a long drive and some pretty demanding teachers. When I finished I was living infront of the computer. I didn't remember another way of being. Comfortable, but unhappy. Now I'm forcing myself to go out again, and though not as comfortable as I used to be (I was previously Mr. 'I want to be the center of attention') I'm a lot happier.
Apparent introversion could also be from a lack of acceptable choices. Ex, you're an extroverted Jew, but you live in a town full of extroverted Nazis. They may invite you to the party, but you probably don't want to go...
Jung (Score:4, Informative)
The everything2 node for introvert [everything2.com] has some interesting information and mentions Carl Jung, who invented this type of classification.
Extroverts get all the chicks.... (Score:3, Funny)
Sorry introverts.
Caring for your Introvert (Score:3)
My name is Khendron, and... I am an introvert <applause>
The Introvert's Guide to Partying (Score:3, Funny)
Nature vs Nurture (Score:4, Insightful)
I could fit into either description. For example, I can plow through a thick book in a few days and get annoyed when anyone interrupts me, but when I went to an anime convention last weekend I avoided anything I could do at home (watch anime, play games) and spent as much time as possible at social events, such as the opening ceremonies, cosplay runway, production panel, and Q&A. At that con, I felt energized by meeting people, and anxious outside of group events. I spend most of my free time alone on the web, but I often read about socially-reinforcing things like New-Urbanist neighbourhoods, and look forward to visiting one. I suspect most people have a mix of introvert and extrovert preferences, and I'd like to read about the environmental factors that cause each.
You know what's funny (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Introvert geeks: (Score:5, Insightful)
Introversion != Social Anxiety
The former is, as described in the article, a temperment issue. Introverts tend to enjoy being alone or with a few close friends. Extroverts tend to find this boring. Extroverts tend to enjoy interacting with large groups of strangers. Introverts tend to find this tiresome.
Social anxiety is a paralyzing fear of social interaction caused by brain chemistry. People with SA are usually unhappy because they want social interaction but can't handle it, while introverts can handle social interaction but don't want to.
Re:Program naked (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Introverts are like cats (Score:3, Interesting)
LOL, although I'm sure 75% of the population fits that description that's not generally what defines The Extrovert. Those frats are just people who are trying to make their lives better at the expense of other people!
The Extrovert - in his natural habitat - is just someone who really gets off on what we geeks call Face Time. Then there is the thin line towards the behaviour of pathological extroverts, who are just masked introverts that crave for other peop
Re:Introverts are like cats (Score:3, Interesting)
I won't start a flame war by expounding on the dogs and extroverts part of your analogy but it sure fits.
Paying people to tell us how were supposed to feel (Score:4, Interesting)
Yeah, nowadays it's so important that you lead a clean, counseled, thoroughly scheduled life!
So what to do with the stereotype if you find out that you actually need to schedule both social- and alone-time in order to recharge?
I bet the counselor wouldn't find that a very acceptable result, and likely wouldn't rest before having successfully talked her customer into matching a stereotype group that neatly fits into her book.
Don't get me wrong - I don't want to rant against counseling (but I do anyway). It just seems that nowadays everyone's life must be planned and optimized by "experts", that sometimes really ticks me off. As if people are generally unable to find out about their own feelings without being constantly helped and directed.