Legal US Music Downloads Beat CD Single Sales 304
Kelly McNeill writes "I've received a lot of feedback from osViews readers (my site) asking about the music download survey that we've been conducting over the past few weeks, saying that osViews readership must be skewed in one particular direction to get the results we did. The primary reason given is not necessarily the fact that iTunes has significantly surpassed its competitors, but that the results show legal digital downloads surpassing even CD sales. I must admit that even I thought this a was a bit peculiar, but now, according to a BBC World news report, it seems the survey is correct. Digital downloads have surpassed even physical CD sales!" Update: 11/04 23:35 GMT by S : The BBC story refers to CD single sales, so Mr.McNeill maybe not be quite as right as he thinks, sadly.
it still has DRM (Score:2, Troll)
the music industry doesn't care about people copying songs off the radio. it didn't even really get its panties in a bunch when CD-Rs first hit the market. or when mp3s hit the ftp servers. It went ballistic when anyone could download a single application and instantly find a never ending stream of perceptibility loss-less perfect digital copies.
likewise with the MPAA and DVD en
Re:it still has DRM (Score:3, Insightful)
I think you're way off for comparing pirate-style technologies along with legitimate ones. H-Cards and cable box descramblers were never about getting access to data or information you had purchased. Anything relating in the defense of H-Cards and Descramblers is legaleze to justify theft. Tivo, MythTV, splitters, etc are making use of media/informatio
whats the surprise? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:whats the surprise? (Score:2, Funny)
I hate CDs and DVDs so much that I built an IDE RAID-5 1 TB media library server for my home. I rip the DVD/CDs and free myself from the yoke of physical media.
Re:whats the surprise? (Score:3, Funny)
Hoooorrrraaaayyyy! (Score:5, Funny)
1. Find what the customers want
2. sell it to them
3. Profit!!!
At last, the end of the 1.2.3. jokes. We found the missing part!!!!
Re:Hoooorrrraaaayyyy! (Score:4, Funny)
1. Bully 12 year girls
2. ????
3. Profit!!!
my working guess was "2. short own stock while bad publicity stacks up"
--Joey
Re:Hoooorrrraaaayyyy! (Score:4, Funny)
1. Bully 12 year old girls
2. Sell them!
3. Profit!!!
I agree (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I agree (Score:3, Funny)
They have always been on top of things!!! What are you talking about?
They need to give people rights, not restrictions.
How do you want to control people this way??? They are not going to rely on trust, are they? Come on, this is not serious
That is what works.
Selling restrictions sounded more fun!
Why should I pay $16 for an album I can't play on my work computer. What is the point of that.
Well, because they want you to? Come on, these people would declare t
Re:whats the surprise? (Score:2)
LP to CD to file (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:LP to CD to file (Score:2)
Why not? (Score:2)
I think the big issues might be around a program to print the labels though. There are tons of Mp3 players but one format, how about a label-format that scales properly to most printers?
Label standards? (Score:2)
Re:LP to CD to file (Score:3, Interesting)
As much as the idea sucks, it's a fact of life that things change.
Re:LP to CD to file (Score:2)
Oh, well. I guess you had to alive then to appreciate it all.
Re:LP to CD to file (Score:2)
maybe the album is dead too (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:maybe the album is dead too (Score:2)
Re:maybe the album is dead too (Score:2)
There's still plenty of artists recording that can make 10+ good songs and ship them to you as a CD, some with killer artwork to boot. And for some artists, each album has it's own mood as well.
The album isn't dead, it's just hiding.
I think I speak for everyone when I say.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course the number of units sold online is going to surpass the number of physical units sold. You have a higher availability of product, lower cost, and a greater transport for them that the consumer loves.
Of course, I am above saying I told you so to people, so I will avoid that in this case towards the RIAA. However, I would like to rub their noses in it, literally, so if someone could work that out, that'd be great.
Re:I think I speak for everyone when I say.... (Score:2)
Note also that the reported number of tracks sold by digital download includes both tracks sold as 'singles' and tracks sold on 'albums.' Apple claims that 45% of the tracks sold on iTMS was on albums, so by extension that would imply that the sales of digital download singles is about 55% of the number of download tr
Re:I think I speak for everyone when I say.... (Score:2)
Ah, what I am rubbing in their face is the fact that I ( along with 20 million other geeks ) was right about the online distribution idea. They still get their money, which is why I won't buy music from artists associated with the R
Re:I think I speak for everyone when I say.... (Score:2)
They don't get near as much profit. Their slimey "open your mouth and close your eyes" business model has been cracked. Yes, that's worth laughing at. Now they have to make an honest living where only the good tracks will survive. It used to be they could put 2-3 good songs on an album and sell it pretty well. Since the songs are sold individually now, an album with only 2-3 good songs on it is onl
Re:I think I speak for everyone when I say.... (Score:2)
Re:I think I speak for everyone when I say.... (Score:2)
Re:I think I speak for everyone when I say.... (Score:2)
I didn't read past that. If you're going to offer a contrary view, then don't be an ass about it. Give me a little credit, will ya?
Re:I think I speak for everyone when I say.... (Score:2)
Some of us do like to read that stuff.
(And the info about composer - and copyright holder - is useful too. Duh.
They have that, it's called a website.
Re:I think I speak for everyone when I say.... (Score:2)
Re:I think I speak for everyone when I say.... (Score:2)
Hmmm
very misleading headline (Score:5, Informative)
Re:very misleading headline (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:very misleading headline (Score:5, Informative)
"Some 7.7 million tracks were bought and downloaded since the end of June - compared with four million CD singles sold, Billboard magazine reported. But some say online and CD single sales cannot be compared because so few singles are now released on CD."
Re:very misleading headline (Score:2)
BBC chose the name of the headline, not Hemos, and they chose it to hype up the story to more than it is. Legit downloads beating CD single sales after the discontinuation recording companies even releasing the damn things is not newsworthy. hence the article spun the title around to make the casual reader think that suddenly a new revolution in the music industry was taking place.
RIAA tactics (Score:2)
Thanks for pointing this out.
Re:RIAA tactics (Score:2)
Re:Right, I was about to say this... (Score:2)
Just Singles (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Just Singles (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Just Singles (Score:2)
Consider the headline, Legal US Music Downloads Beat CD Sales. Come on, even if legit downloads go on to replace CDs, it's not like they have already, which is what both the headline and the article imply with the title.
Re:Just Singles (Score:2)
Re:Just Singles (Score:2)
I agree, but what the grandparent is saying doesn't change the fact that the headline is misleading.
Sure, the submitter didn't really RTFA, but that doesn't make the article or jc42's point less interesting to me - just misrepresented (not a first here, for sure).
Yes, in fact, his point is the only interesting point that can possibly be derived from
Re:Just Singles (Score:3, Interesting)
If I recall correctly, CD singles usually are bundled with a few other miscellaneous tracks, AND cost more than a dollar to purchase. Suppose a CD single costs 2$. In which case the record companies have made 7.7 million dollars off of legit downloading (99 cents a pop), and eight million dollars off of CD singles.
Re:Just Singles (Score:5, Interesting)
I used to buy a fair number of singles on 45, especially from bands I otherwise didn't really care for. And for about a dollar a pop, it wasn't bad deal. When CDs killed off LPs and 45's, the market for singles pretty much died for a while. At least until they convinced kids to fork out $4.00 - $6.00 a piece for the little blighters.
The market for singles died because the record companies refused to take a fair price for songs on CD. And sales forces were focused on the "album", which is odd since most albums of recent music are made up of a collection of seemingly random songs that have no central theme to hold them together. They might as well be collections of singles.
I think that buying only what you want online is going to bring back the era of the single. I know I've spent more money on music since iTunes for Windows came out than I have for the last year. And why? Because I can buy only the one song I like buy that band I otherwise don't care for. And for a dollar a pop, that's not bad.
Doing Well (Score:5, Insightful)
As the BBC article mentions, it's not a truly fair comparison because it's all tracks sold online vs. only singles. I purchased a number of my tracks as part of an album, and I don't often buy CD singles, either (never, actually). So, it would be nice if we could compare full album sales instead of the unbalance "tracks vs. singles".
Still, it is nice to see online music doing well - IMHO, anyway. DRM, as always, will remain a key issue here.
Could this be the future? (Score:4, Interesting)
Eventually, they'll "get it" and realize that their business model is changing and you'll see more services like iTunes.
Ogg Vorbis (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Ogg Vorbis (Score:2, Insightful)
Of course, people keep forgetting that if you can hear it, you can free it. You can rip high-quality copies from any audio device with a
There's always one of you in aevery music thread. (Score:2)
Re:Ogg Vorbis (Score:2)
CD Singles (Score:2)
Some 7.7 million tracks were bought and downloaded since the end of June - compared with four million CD singles sold
When was the last time you even saw CD singles for sale? This is a fairly bad comparison given the fact that the CD single is pretty hard to come by these days.
No Repair kits (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:No Repair kits (Score:2)
But you can crash the hard drive...
Re:No Repair kits (Score:2)
Same thing occured to the pr0n industry (Score:2, Informative)
Regardless of your opinions of the porn industry (which often does things as shady as the RIAA), at least they know an opportunity when they see it. The RIAA refuses to get a new business model, unle
Why online albums will never pass real albums (Score:2)
Just imagine how much money the RIAA.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Granted, legal digital music has been successful, but how many people out there still hate the RIAA?
To all of those who have called music downloaders thieves, all I can say is I told you so. People are basically honest, and they're willing to pay for good service.
overload (Score:2)
But the more interesting thing would be to see how many singles were downloaded off KaZaa alone in the same period.
Surpassing how? (Score:2, Insightful)
If by revenue, then HOLY SHIT. Because downloads are a whole lot cheaper than CDs, they'd have to be FAR more popular. Woo hoo!
If by volume, then BIG DEAL. Because an album on CD has like 15-20 songs on it, whereas a single song download has only 1 song on it. So to really eclipse CD sales, you'd have to see downloads at 15-20x the volume of album sales.
Of course, there's a lot of crappy songs on most of those albums, which we'd all be better off without. So there's probabl
eMusic influence? (Score:2)
This 7 CD set, that 10 CD set, etc, etc.
Somewhat OT--Any solution for Linux yet? (Score:2)
Re:Somewhat OT--Any solution for Linux yet? (Score:2)
I don't know of any restriction that keeps you from keeping your tracks on 20 computers, and authorizing and de-authorizing them as needed. The authorization process takes an internet connection and about 20 seconds.
duh (Score:2)
This should be a lesson to all the dumbass music distributors that if they pay some attention to their consumers' needs and interest, and spend more time exploring ways to enhance and expand their market's choices and experience, they will profit.
Then again, they could just go about suing more people, raising prices and marketing even more crap music, and then go back to whining about how they're suffering.
Historical 45 rpm data (Score:5, Interesting)
The question I'm wondering is: how many 45 rpm singles were being sold at the height of their popularity, into what population?
We are guessing that 7.7M + 4M/month is way low compared to the peak, which I might guess was 10-15 million/month for a smaller population.
-dB
Re:Historical 45 rpm data (Score:2)
Did iPods play those? Is that some new hip-hop artist?
Re:Historical 45 rpm data (Score:2)
If you assume that "hits" are always the bulk of sales, the RIAA Award database [riaa.com] says that ther were 53 "gold" singles awarded in 1968, which I guess to be a representative near-peak sales year for singles. Since "gold" was 500,000 units, it says that top sellers were at least 25M units that year. If you guess that is 1/4 to 1/2 total unit sales, then likely there were 50-100M single sales a year around 1968 in the U
Well... duh. (Score:2)
Duh.
Thank God in Heaven above that legit services -- with DRM or no -- have come about, and finally we have some real figur
In related news ... (Score:2, Funny)
This is not the important benchmark (Score:2)
What will get the RIAA to grab a clue is when one or more of the following happens:
1) More music is distributed online then in meat space.
2) Profits from downloaded music surpass the profits from sales of CD's.
The music downloads allow a way around the CD price fixing that led to the RIAA's problem. Once the online services surpass the RIAA, the RIAA will
Re:This is not the important benchmark (Score:2)
Except for the fact that all the songs on the services are licensed from the RIAA, and they are all paying fees to the RIAA. Apple gives half the money they make to RIAA members.
wow (Score:2)
What's keeping you from buying songs online? (Score:2)
The headline is wrong (Score:2)
The comparison implied by the "Legal US Music Downloads Beat CD Sales" is broken in several ways:
1) "Legal US Music Downloads" includes both album and single sales, while "CD Sales" refers only to CD Single sales. So it's not an "apples to apples" comparison.
2) "CD Sales" actually refers to CD sales, which are vanishingly small compared to CD sales (e.g. 2% according to Soundscan) so it's not only wrong, it's misleading by a factor o
The headline is wrong (second try) (Score:2)
The comparison implied by the "Legal US Music Downloads Beat CD Sales" is broken in several ways:
1) "Legal US Music Downloads" includes both album and single sales, while "CD Sales" refers only to CD Single sales. So it's not an "apples to apples" comparison.
2) "CD Sales" actually refers to CD Single sales, which are vanishingly small compared to actual CD sales (e.g. 2% according to Soundscan) so it's not only wrong, it's misleadin
Give people [close to] what they want... (Score:2)
On the negative note, I still think the songs are too expensive by about $0.30 (on the RIAA side). Drop the price overall and further on some for some
How I knew this couldn't be true (Score:5, Interesting)
Here are the numbers. The U.S. record industry sold $12.6 billion [riaa.com] worldwide in various formats (almost all CDs) in 2002. This is off a bit from the peak $14.6 billion in 1999. It's important to keep in mind that, even at those levels, we're talking about nine weeks revenue for IBM [yahoo.com].
Assuming the Windows side of iTunes Music Store continues to sell at the initial rate [macworld.co.uk] of 1 million songs/$1 million revenue in the first 3.5 days, that's only about $104 million per year. The Mac side sold $13 million in tunes in the first six months [nytimes.com], so we'll put that side at $26 million per year.
That's $130 million per year for all iTMS. Even if the store doubles its sales, and then the other stores collectively match its sales, you'd be talking about total online sales of $520 million per year, still a drop in the bucket.
The growth will need to get exponential before there is any comparison with offline music sales. I'm not saying it won't happen, but that's what we're talking about, and that's how I instantly new the hed on the posting was wrong.
Singles have more than one track (Score:2)
[TMB]
Lawsuit city (Score:2)
(I know that the RIAA is made up of multiple companies, but they pretty much act as one..)
the poor artists (Score:4, Insightful)
In the CD world, 10% ($2) was a good deal for the band because the record companies had to pay for manufacturing, cases, booklets, shipping and publicity, which is quite costly. But now they don't have to do anything - it is pure profit for the record companies, so they should be passing on a higher percentage of the profit to the bands.
Until They change how much the bands get payed for digital downloads I will stick to buying CDs. Plus I like getting booklets
Why "sadly" (Score:3, Insightful)
Who cares which is outselling the other, as long as the consumer has the option to buy either.
Re:But.. (Score:4, Insightful)
And sometimes those remixes can be way better than the original. It all depends.
Re:But.. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:CD singles only. (Score:2)
As an American who uses while all the time, I think "whilst" makes "while" unambiguous.
A: I carry weights around while I walk, and get strenght training at the same tame as a good cardio workout.
B: Whilst you do get an added bonus of strenght training, the increased difficulty forces your cells to work anaerobically, and thus you lose some of the cardio workout.
So "while" is supposed to mean "at the same time,
Re:singles (Score:2)
Hmmm
Re:Just singles (Score:2)
I would call it "not a big deal" in an absolute sense. CD singles are a miniscule market right now and if anything, all this is going to do is confirm to the music execs the fact that it's pointless to even bother releasing them. The record labels have been trying to do away with CD singles completely for years, but public pressure (though not necessarily sales), not to mention pressure from within the industry itself (it's a measu
Re:Just singles (Score:2)
Re:Note to RIAA (Score:2, Interesting)
We can laugh at them for not jumping on the bandwagon sooner, but they're getting the last laugh, and still getting paid.
Re:Note to RIAA (Score:5, Insightful)
No they're not. Part of what sparked this is that the quality of music has gone down. They were making money by selling albums at a premium with only 2-3 songs the listener actually wants to have. That translates to roughly $5 a song. Now it's what, $1 a song? To put it another way, people will spend $10 instead of spending $45.
Over time, it might turn into better revenue, as more and more artists will have less and less pressure to create a whole album. But in the short term, the RIAA risks a huge chunk of their margins.
Re:Note to RIAA (Score:2)
Eh it depends really. The problem with making a generalization like I did is that there are so many people buying music for so many reasons.
Personally, I think initially they will lose money on it. Why? Music hasn't been very good lately. It's hard to imagine albums being sold when in a lot of cases it's the one-hit-top-forty songs that are interesting. Eventually the RIAA and the artists will have to be a lo
Change (Score:2)
When streetlights converted to electricity you can bet the lamp-lighters kicked up a fuss.
I expect the record industry will lose a lot of power. They effectively manipulate the music industry and control who willl make it and who won't. Digital music removes that control since effectively any Joe with a server can sell his music. They also lose revenue. While they send out images of starving artists, their real concern is starving
Re:Note to RIAA (Score:2, Insightful)
Oh, I forgot. They're one of those groups Slashdot doesn't like. Any excuse to bash them, however illogical, right?
Re:Note to RIAA (Score:2)
Re:Typical /. response: (Score:5, Informative)
Recording industry contracts pretty much guarantee that the artist gets nothing (and in fact usually ends up in debt) until at least 1.5 million CDs are sold. For new groups, the crossover point is often much higher, and is hardly ever reached.
But this is hardly news in this forum. Anyone reading
Re:Typical /. response: (Score:2)
I've been reading slashdot for about 4 years or more (check my uid if you don't believe me), and while I've certainly seen this sort of thing said often enough, I don't remember ever seeing any hard data, with sources, to back up the claims.
Now, I'm not saying I don't believe you - just pointing out that I have not seen the data, just the claims. I'd be very interested if you could provide that data.
Re:Umm... (Score:2)
It's not my fault that the story has such a patently false and misleading title that will cause instant uproar. Mod me back down, but don't take it below that. Given how many folks don't read the article, how was I supposed to know fifty other people would pipe in with the same thing?
Re:Umm... (Score:2)
Re:come on editors (Score:2)
Re:yet mp3 is not available from any of the retail (Score:2)
However, it is easy for you to play DVDs, so you probably don't think twice about it (unless you are trying to copy data off of it, which most people don't do.) In iTunes Music Store, the DRM is quite fair for the consumer, and the emphasis remains on the ability to easily play the music where and when you want to. This is what the aver
Re:singles (Score:2)