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Music Media HP

HP to Launch Music Service, Player In 2004 207

Posted by simoniker from the not-to-be-left-out dept.
securitas writes "HPShopping.com CEO Peter Appl told Reuters that HP will launch its own branded online music service and a portable MP3 / digital music player in 2004. Appl (the CEO) said that the newcomers would compete with Apple (the company's) music products such as the iTunes music store and iPod music player, among others. HP expects its store to be a branded version of an existing service. Appl also said that the launch will take place at the 2004 Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in January. Compaq sold its own line of digital music players, now discontinued, before its merger with HP. Mirrors of the Reuters story at CNN and Boston.com. A quick check shows that HPMusic.com resolves to an 'HP customer care local language selection' technical support page, and the domain has been registered since 1999."
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HP to Launch Music Service, Player In 2004 More

HP to Launch Music Service, Player In 2004

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  • New Pair of Dimes (Score:5, Interesting)

    by dolo666 ( 195584 ) * on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @09:32PM (#7624777) Journal
    (checks crystal ball)

    I see only one of two possible immediate outcomes to all of these music services going up at the same time:

    1. The collapse of the RIAA's scare-tactics business model for coercion to expensive copyright, and a change in how people listen and contribute to the music industry.

    2. The total destruction of all online music sales, as all said businesses compete eachother out of existence.

    In either case, the indies will be getting a *huge* increase in power, wealth and the ability to remain flexible to meet market demand and handle new distribution opportunities.

    I think this is really good for everyone... especially when you consider that most of the traditional corporations have mission statements like: "Our goal is to competently build virtual data to allow us to conveniently disseminate quality content for 100% customer satisfaction", and compare that line of thought to the mission of indy music, which is more along the lines of "create the best, most innovative music and get a huge fan base, because we ROCK!"

    • Re:New Pair of Dimes (Score:5, Insightful)

      by shark72 ( 702619 ) on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @09:44PM (#7624861)

      "1. The collapse of the RIAA's scare-tactics business model for coercion to expensive copyright, and a change in how people listen and contribute to the music industry."

      The RIAA's lawsuits (and by the way, there were more today [yahoo.com]) are symbiotic with, and not counter to, the growth in the legitimate download services. The RIAA's tactic is to scare people away from downloading copyrighted music without permission. The theory is that with greater awareness that doing so is illegal, and/or a fear of being caught, downloaders will migrate to legitimate sources, like iTMS, Napster, and the metric squillion others that have popped up.

      So, "collapse" isn't the best word -- ideally, the need to resort to legal action will eventually evaporate.

      "2. The total destruction of all online music sales, as all said businesses compete eachother out of existence."

      The online music industry is like any other: some big players, some small players, some smart ones, some not-so-smart. It's been clearly shown that there's growing demand, so the industry will probably be around for some time to come.

      • I still can't help but think back to the lawsuit against that 12 year old girl. Correct me if I'm wrong, but hadn't she paid for the service she was using in downloading the mp3s, or at least had been led to believe that was what she was paying for.

        I can just imagine people buying into this sort of service and then a loophole being found and the RIAA's lawsuit numbers increasing. I think the online community should watch this sort of thing with suspicion.

        As always Caveat Emptor. I'm not saying it's like

    • Re:New Pair of Dimes (Score:5, Funny)

      by cmacb ( 547347 ) on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @10:51PM (#7625205) Homepage Journal
      Yeah, doesn't this pretty much prove that most of America's CEOs have absolutely no imagination?

      Step one: Offload manufacturing, then programming, then support over seas and lay everyone off.

      Step two: Look around and realize that there is not much point in being in charge of a company of one with everything being done elsewhere, better come up with a new product idea fast.

      Step three: Read headline in last months business journal that say online music really taking off fast.

      Step four: WOW, I'm gettin' into THAT. I bet nobody else has thought of this! Hire the son of the CEO that lives next door to run the whole thing from his bedroom.

      Step five... wait for it..... Profit!
    • "In either case, the indies will be getting a *huge* increase in power, wealth and the ability to remain flexible to meet market demand and handle new distribution opportunities." I disagree. I think the RIAA is trying to keep online music sales fragmented between different proprietary sellers. (i.e. Music Service X can only work with MP3 player X) OR use the rental music option (where you pay $X/month to get music but you dont own it). As long as the RIAA can remain the monopoly power behind music indies

  • Apple Copy (Score:5, Funny)

    by General Sherman ( 614373 ) on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @09:32PM (#7624778) Journal
    "If Apple can do it, so can we!"

    Joining dell on the music bandwagon. Oh well, I guess it's a good thing. Competition inspires innovation, right? right?

  • This is ... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by pavon ( 30274 ) on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @09:33PM (#7624784)
    more evidence that HP is trying to go out of business.

  • Oranges (Score:5, Funny)

    by Seehund ( 86897 ) on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @09:35PM (#7624801) Homepage Journal
    Let's get the Now You're Comparing Appls And Apples jokes out of the way.
  • OSS suffers from too many developers scratching the same itch. Pfffftt.

  • The only really new thing here... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rolocroz ( 625853 ) on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @09:36PM (#7624810)
    ...is that HP's entering the business. They're not creating anything new on their own: instead, they've decided to brand an existing product. Yawn.
    • Allegedly a new music player. Granted, it'll presumably be another USB MP3/WMV hard drive based player (flash memory players don't really match the idea of getting people to download gigs of music from you and are sooo 1999) with few features to make it significantly different from Dell's, Rio's, or even Apple's offerings, but that's not that bad. It'll at least drive down pricing, perhaps.

  • The CEO's name... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Steve 'Rim' Jobs ( 728708 ) on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @09:36PM (#7624814) Journal
    HPShopping.com CEO Peter Appl

    Coincidence? I don't think so.

  • Now we can say it (Score:5, Funny)

    by armando_wall3 ( 728889 ) on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @09:38PM (#7624825)

    Imagine a beowulf cluster of online music retailers!

  • Maybe it will run on Linux (Score:5, Interesting)

    by El Cubano ( 631386 ) on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @09:38PM (#7624826)
    Seeing as HP has lots of support for Linux (mostly enterprise, but you can buy some of their desktop models with Mandrake preinstalled), maybe they will push to have a Linux version. Here's to hoping ...

  • What if... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @09:39PM (#7624829)
    With all the recent desires to open a branch in the music industry, you have to wonder what would happen if Microsoft got it's hands wet, "Sorry, you cannot play this on linux" or "Sorry, this is an apple product." Still, at least SCO or Al Gore isn't involved:

    SCO: You must have a license to listen to music, available for a modest fee.

    Gore: Sorry, but I invented music.

    Microsoft: And I invented the stringent EULA's and Windows, which runs flawlessly.

    RIAA: You all must bow down to me, the screwer of all artists.

  • Value in old domains (Score:5, Funny)

    by rf0 ( 159958 ) * <rghf@fsck.me.uk> on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @09:40PM (#7624833) Homepage
    Prehaps hp just went through a list of domains they owned and thought, how can we make money off this and off they go. Wonder if they own hpporn?

    Rus

  • Features of the HP's music player (Score:5, Funny)

    by markov_chain ( 202465 ) on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @09:40PM (#7624836)
    I can already see it:

    * Equipped with a 192-bit DAC for maximum output quality
    * Sound recording feature with 1MHz sampling rate
    * Full-color spectrum analyzer
    * Sturdy, "expensive plastic" design- you can drop it, drive a truck over it, and it will still work.
    * Modem line-quality test feature: just let it record the sound of your modem
    * The MP3 player uses 3 DSPs for fault-tolerance
    * Costs $15000
    • Sorry, the indestructible tools and engineering heritage portion of HP got spun off to Agilent. :(

    • Re:Features of the HP's music player (Score:5, Funny)

      by bbc22405 ( 576022 ) on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @10:00PM (#7624961)
      * One headphone cord is red, the other black. :-)
      (with an alligator clip at the end of each, ouch!)

    • I wish. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Doktor Memory ( 237313 ) on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @10:09PM (#7625012) Journal
      Ah, it's a lovely thought, but let's get real: that HP is long dead, and the bits they didn't spin off with Aligent got taken out behind the woodshed and shot.

      No, this thing will be designed by ex-Compaq engineers. It'll be bigger than the Creative Nomad, flakier than the Rio Karma, heavier than the Zen, and more expensive than the iPod.
      • flakier than the Rio Karma

        Have you even used the karma? I've owned one for 3 weeks now, you can read my review here on /. [slashdot.org]. Yes, the initial firmware release was buggy, but with latest firmware, I've had no problems. I also remember that 2 years ago when I bought a 5GB ipod, the firmware was just as if not more problematic.

        • I've actually been following the Karma's progress quite avidly on the riovolution forums. In theory, it's the player I want to own: ipod-sized, ogg support, involved developer community, ethernet interface.

          But let's be honest here: Rio released the Karma several months and QA cycles too early, and the early buyers got used as unwitting beta testers of an unready product. The original ipod had its share of issues, but they didn't include regularly restarting in the middle of song playback.

          The 1.25 firmwa
      • I wouldn't mind ex-Compaq engineers, but it depends on which ones. A lot of the Enterprise class HP and Compaq products are pretty damn good, think server and workstation products. I wouldn't trust products from the consumer computer products groups though.

        • Re:I wish. (Score:3, Funny)

          by bsharitt ( 580506 )
          Well since this is likely to be a consumer device and not an enterprise class audio player, you're probably out of luck.

    • You forgot ... (Score:4, Funny)

      by s20451 ( 410424 ) on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @10:34PM (#7625133) Journal
      Size: Rack mount form factor
      Weight: 60lbs

    • Equipped with a 192-bit DAC for maximum output quality

      That's probably market-speak for an 8-channel by 24-bit DAC, useful for 7.1 channel audio.

      Sound recording feature with 1MHz sampling rate

      Sony's SACD system, based on pulse density modulation, does 2.8 MHz at one bit per channel.

    • You forgot:

      * Device operated from keyboard using easy to learn Reverse Polish Notation
    • Ah yes ..... you obviously have some nice old Hewlett-Packard test equipment :-) It was good stuff, and its design lifetime was basically forever. And the manuals explained everything.

      Unfortunately, modern HP tat is, well, tat. Someone at HP twigged onto the idea that if you build something to last forever, you can only sell one of them to each customer; so they went with the idea that if you build things to break after one year, then you can sell one to each customer each year. Unfortunately, <BL

  • Market Saturation (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Philosinfinity ( 726949 ) on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @09:42PM (#7624847)
    With half a bajillion companies now offering song downloads at $0.99 and none coming to us without some sort of DRM involved, why would we choose one over another? The Apple iTunes store has had so much success because of (1) the sales success of the ipod and (2) the ease on integration of iTunes and OS X. Now let's turn this into a look at HP. HP's MP3 player (while the MP3 player in question is purely speculative since it has not been released) is probably no different than any other MP3 player and I doubt they could be much better than the Neuros. So this gives us no need to choose the HP music store over any other store. Further, HP hardware is not proprietary in the sense that getting music from the HP store would either be a required method of getting music or the easiest because of a lack of other sources. This seems to tell me one thing: HP's journey into online digital music sales will most likely be short lived.

    • Re:Market Saturation (Score:5, Interesting)

      by newbiescum ( 190145 ) on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @10:12PM (#7625030)
      So this gives us no need to choose the HP music store over any other store. Further, HP hardware is not proprietary in the sense that getting music from the HP store would either be a required method of getting music or the easiest because of a lack of other sources. This seems to tell me one thing: HP's journey into online digital music sales will most likely be short lived.

      Think of HP, Dell, and especially Gateway turning into the new Best Buys, Frys, and CompUSAs. They're already selling plasma TVs, PDAs, and digital cameras. This is just merely another technology product that they are offering. Then the reason why you pick HP versus Dell or Best Buy versus Frys is the customer service, prices, etc. just like a traditional retail outlet.

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion

        • Online retailers are all in the same physical place.

          Not necessarily. Online retailers's physical locations may impact you in the form of taxes. If your state has an Apple store anywhere within it, you need to pay taxes on your iTunes Music Store purchases for instance. Savings on taxes plus free shipping are perhaps the major price advantage for most products sold on the web, and if most people could find a place that saves them money for the same items, most people take advantage of it.

          Furthermore,

  • HP's downward spiral (Score:5, Interesting)

    by mr.henry ( 618818 ) * on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @09:42PM (#7624849) Journal
    Jeez, this just smacks of desperation. The article also states HP is getting into flat screen TV's. Gateway [gateway.com] has been selling these things for over a year now. This is as bad as their big launch of crappy consumer electronics (like the HP DVD Movie Writer [time.com], a device that converts VHS to DVD+R... not the more widely compatible DVD-R format).

    It's really painful to watch HP crash and burn. Thanks, Carly!

  • Lame, Lame, Lame (Score:4, Interesting)

    by timeOday ( 582209 ) on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @09:42PM (#7624851)
    What's with all these music services tied to specific players? What a stupid idea. I'll never buy music in a format for which there are only a few manufacturers. I rather buy and rip CD's (as stupid and inefficient as that is in this networked era.)
    • I assume the repeated usage of the word "Lame [sf.net]" in your post title was a pun?

    • Re:Lame, Lame, Lame (Score:4, Insightful)

      by cowscows ( 103644 ) on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @10:52PM (#7625213) Journal
      Straight from Apple and Steve Jobs; they don't make any money selling the tunes, it's just there to push iPods. Unless a company can manage to talk the record labels into a much better deal than apple got, at 99cents or less per song, there's not much of a profit to be made in the music itself.


      Apple is saying that's one of the reasons that they're not too worried about all of these other companies starting their own services. The ones that don't have an accompanying product like the iPod (or oodles of cash to throw away (MS)) probably won't be able to eek an existence out of online music sales alone.

  • Thing is, portable mp3 players are 10 a penny.
    Hell, I can walk into my local computer store and find at least three different flash drives, all with inbuilt mp3/wma players.

    If they want their product to sell, why not make it worthwhile and put in stuff that tech-savvy people would use, like Tremor (integer Ogg Vorbis decoding) support for those who don't want to pay Fraunhoffer.
    • "If they want their product to sell, why not make it worthwhile and put in stuff that tech-savvy people would use, like Tremor (integer Ogg Vorbis decoding) support for those who don't want to pay Fraunhoffer."

      Because tech-savvy people are a very small market compared to the masses of people who are not tech-savvy. Hate to break it to you, but the average person could give two flying fucks about Ogg Vorbis. HP is not doing this to fill a niche market, that is typically done by smaller, more agile compani

    • <subliminal message>
      rio karma....rio karma....rio karma....rio karma....
      </subliminal message>

  • Hmmm (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Captain Splendid ( 673276 ) <`capsplendid' `at' `gmail.com'> on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @09:44PM (#7624862) Homepage Journal
    As unimpressed as I am (I loathe HP, its products and all it stands for) all these music services/mp3 players coming out means that 2004 looks to to be the year where mp3 players become commodities. The hardware is at a decent stage (thanks to the iPod). Now all that's left is for prices to come down to walkman/discman-like levels.

  • online music as a commodity (Score:3, Insightful)

    by larry bagina ( 561269 ) on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @09:46PM (#7624871) Journal
    According to the register (a reliable source, if ever there was one), Apple doesn't make much (if any) money from iTMS directly -- it's a gateway for iPods, where they do make money. So it's not surprising HP has mp3 (wma) players along with their music store.

    However, Napster, BuyMusic, Dell, and HP should be shitting their pants now that MS will be in the business. They're all dealing with the same DRM (wma files), the same catalog, and the same music. MS has the resources to make sure they wind up on top.

    • Note - the Register is NOT a reliable source.

      It's a pure talking shop, that's all. The articles are hostage to the (sometimes extreme) bias of their employees, who react in very unprofessional ways when you attempt to point this out.

  • This is scaring me (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @09:47PM (#7624881)
    For one reason: The popping up of all these services can only strengthen WMA.

    Since everyone except iTunes seems to rely on WMA DRM, this slew of services may well be the thing that takes WMA from an also-ran joke to a serious media format.

    I don't like the idea of MS having real power in the world of media formats.

    • While I hate DRM in general (Score:4, Interesting)

      by asv108 ( 141455 ) * <asvNO@SPAMivoss.com> on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @11:26PM (#7625390) Homepage Journal
      I would rather see AAC with proprietary DRM rather than all these music services using WMA with MS's DRM scheme. Really, any DRM scheme is not going to be an acceptable for a viable music service in the long run, unless it allows for seemless format shifting which totally kills the need for DRM in the first place. Granted for most CASUAL music listeners something like the ITMS DRM scheme is acceptable, but for people who buy a lot of music and care about sound quality none of the major services out there cater to audiophiles.

      Now most people will start clammering about how the majority of music buyers can listen to 128kpbs aac, mp3, etc, but the people who spend a lot of money on stereo stuff are also the same people who buy the most music. The only pay music site I've seen that caters to audiophiles is livephish.com [livephish.com] which offers NON DRMED audio downloads available as a low bitrate mp3 or for audiophile's lossless flac at a higher price. For a music service to truly reach all potential customers it needs to provide multiple quality levels for consumers with different needs.

  • Corporate Sabotage? (Score:5, Informative)

    by Hyperbolix ( 214002 ) <hyperbolix@@@gmail...com> on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @09:51PM (#7624897) Homepage Journal
    I'm awefully distressed that Apple's music player isn't getting more recognition in consumer electronics houses. I went to Best Buy [bestbuy.com] recently to pick up a much needed case fan, and was surprised to see that they carry iPods. Unfortunately, they have all their iPods in a locked transparant glass case at floor level, making it very difficult to look inside. Additionally, all the iPod boxes are oriented in such a way that the size is the only visible part of the box. On top of this case is the latest offering from Creative Labs, in a nice clear plastic case, showing off the (rather bulky) HDD MP3 player. It is impossible see what the iPod even looks like in the display. As I was doing my Christmas shopping at the time, I had my own iPod with me. I was asked about it by two moderately interested individuals, who were complete unaware of the presence of the product in the store. It's really too bad that the bottom line plays such a big role in the way these products are marketted. Best Buy has a much more significant markup on the other MP3 players, but its a little deceiteful to tuck the good stuff away like that. OK, enough of my griping. - J. B.
    • It is like that at my local Best Buys too.

      I think it could be employee laziness. The products are so desirable and expensive that they have to be locked up.

      I really don't know what the markups are, so I can't compare.

      Last I checked, CompUSA had all their MP3 models out the boxes for display, attached to antitheft tethers. Of course, maybe CompUSA gets better margins for being on better terms with Apple, I think Best Buy was an official outlet for Apple computers twice and lost it twice.

  • I can't see how this fits HP's business model (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @09:53PM (#7624908)
    How in the world can this lead to sales of Inkjet cartridges for $40 each?

  • And in other news... (Score:5, Funny)

    by FVK ( 411455 ) on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @09:55PM (#7624921)
    Packard Bell today announced it would re-enter the US market with the introduction of a new online music service and branded media player. Company spokesman Mr. Fuzuoku said "we will avoid repeating past failure by competing only in markets with no competition from DELL and H........D'Oh!!"

  • Lemmings (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Goo.cc ( 687626 ) * on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @09:58PM (#7624948)
    Sometimes, watching the computer industry is like watching a bunch of lemmings. Next thing you know, SCO will be launching a music service as well! :)

  • Why not license Apple's store? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by mveloso ( 325617 ) on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @10:00PM (#7624956)
    It was good enough for Time Warner, and lord knows HP can only make printers.

  • What is the expected lifetime of these formats (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nomadicGeek ( 453231 ) * on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @10:08PM (#7625005)
    I have CD's that are 17 years old. They still work and I have been able to rip all of them and use them in my MP3 player. The beauty of an open format.

    DRM sucks. The files only last for as long as you have the software/hardware to play them. What is my guarantee that I will be able to listen to this music in 20 years after I spend the money to license it? Let's face it, at $10/album or $0.99/song it is not as good of a deal as a $16 CD. The data is in a crippled format that is less valuable to me because I may not be able to use it in a few years. If HP or Apple or whoever later decides to stop supporting the format then I am screwed, I can't legally convert the files to another format unless the vendor is nice enough to provide me with an officially sanctioned tool. Do you think they will do that instead of forcing me to buy another copy in a different format?

    How am I supposed to keep track of which file came from which vendor and thus needs player X to play?
    • If HP or Apple or whoever later decides to stop supporting the format then I am screwed, I can't legally convert the files to another format unless the vendor is nice enough to provide me with an officially sanctioned tool. Do you think they will do that instead of forcing me to buy another copy in a different format?

      Yeah, Apple would never allow you to do something like burn them to the non-DRM'd CDs you love so much.

      As many times as you would like. [1]

      Or have their DRM'd files be based on an industry standard. [2]

      [1] From http://www.apple.com/itunes/store/ [apple.com]: "You can burn songs onto an unlimited number of CDs for your personal use, listen to songs on an unlimited number of iPods and play songs on up to three Macintosh computers or Windows PCs."

      [2] See http://www.apple.com/mpeg4/aac/ [apple.com]
      • [1] A CD-R does not have the same life expectancy as a regular CD. They degrade over time.

        [2] The DRM wrapper around the ACC format is proprietary to Apple.

        I suppose that you could take the files and burn them and then re-rip them but that isn't what the vendors intend for you to do.

        Mark my words, people will be complaining in a few years that the songs that they bought have fallen by the wayside as formats and services have changed. These DRM'd files will not be around as long as my oldest CD's.

    • FUD, FUD, FUD (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Myrmidon ( 649 )
      "You can burn every song you download from the iTunes Music Store onto CD" [apple.com].

      I admit that Apple's DRM still sucks a little - it means you have to go through the hassle of burning a CD in order to keep your music forever. But it's nowhere near as bad as you think it is. Itunes does not lock you in to Apple.

      In fact, a quick Google shows that even the need to actually burn a CD may be optional [ipodding.com]. Hee hee! Designing a DRM system really is like shovelling back the tide.

      If HP tries to achieve lock-in by selling t

      • Re:FUD, FUD, FUD (Score:3, Interesting)

        by cens0r ( 655208 )
        All the music stores have that same loop hole. My problem is, what happens 10 years from now if the iTMS is no more? Will I be able to play those AAC files? Maybe or maybe not. By then the CD-R I burned them to probably won't be working any more (most of my CD-R's start to degrade after a few years with any frequent use). However all the CD's I own still play in all my CD players. And since I've ripped them all to FLAC I can convert them to any other format I want without loss. Until a music store gi
        • And where do you keep your FLAC files? CD-R?
          • Actually I keep them on hard drives. I've got the space and storage is cheap now. I should back them up to CD-RW (which seems to last ok if it isn't used much), but I'm holding off for a larger back up media. I also haven't finished converting all my CD's to FLAC yet. I've got about 500 so it's going to take some time.
    • What is my guarantee that I will be able to listen to this music in 20 years after I spend the money to license it?

      The majority of the music the RIAA is making widely available is stuff you wouldn't want to listen to three years from now, let alone twenty.

      And what is it about people here who keep conveniently forgetting that they can, in most cases, burn their purchased DRM music onto CDs and archive them that way? Quit whining already. It's not like the music isn't available on CD at the same time.

  • Most of HP's product Lines doesn't make money (Score:4, Insightful)

    by randall_burns ( 108052 ) <randall_burns@@@hotmail...com> on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @10:15PM (#7625047)
    The only divisions of HP that actually made money when I was there were:

    1) Servers

    2) Printer Supplies

    The rest of the product line was basically dead weight. This strikes me as one more piece of dead weight. HP seems desperate to find something that will make money-desperate enough to do just about anything except create strong incentives for technical excellence.

    • Apparently you didn't read HP's quarterly report that came out about two weeks ago - all divisions were profitable, /. anti-HP bigotry notwithstanding.

      The highlights:

      - Revenue of $19.9 billion, up 10% year-over-year; compares to analyst consensus estimates of $19.0 billion
      - Non-GAAP operating profit of $1.4 billion, up 63% year-over-year; Non-GAAP EPS $0.36, up 50% year-over-year; compares to analyst consensus estimates of $0.35
      - GAAP operating profit of $1.1 billion, up 152% year-over-year; GAAP EPS $0.2
      • I was at HP 3.5 years ago-some things change over time. Also, remember, this was before the merger with Compaq--a lot of stuff can be done during a merger/reorganization of the scope to "cook the books".

        I would also keep in mind that HP is the recipients of enormous corporate subsidies(this is what Nobel Prize winner Milton Friedman calls the H-1b/L-1 visa programs). The value of a single H-1b visa is about $100,000. I wouldn't be surprised if there have been 10,000 H-1b and L-1 visa holders at HP and Co

    • HPs new plan to return to glory:

      1. Design 1U and 2U servers that run off of inkjet carts. Scrap all other products.

      2. ???

      3. Profit!
  • Why? Because Apple currently dominates both online music services AND digital music players. The more firms jumping into the fray, the less any single one of Apple's competitors stand out. Moreover, given that Apple's DRM is considerably less heinous than the those of the other firms, that it has better software, and integration with the market-leading MP3 player, it becomes a matter of "I could carefully compare these 7 or 8 other online services, popping up like dot-bomb zombie clones, all of whom have exactly the same price, and try to figure out which is best AND will still be in business five years from now...or I could just go with iTunes as both the cool AND obvious choice." If Apple had two or three strong competitors, it might be different, but seven or eight weak ones just make iTunes look that much more attractive by comparison.

    My prediction: The iTunes Music Store will still be going string five years from now, but all but one or two of other digital music stores will be gone.

    • News flash... Apple's DRM is the same as all the other music stores. The only difference is the DRM on songs that apple either doesn't offer or on services that they don't offer. Certain labels would only allow certain songs with harsher DRM. Apple won't carry them, some of the other stores will. Apple does not support unlimited streaming music, the other stores do. Those are the only differences between the stores. If you go find a song at iTMS and the same song at MusicMatch or Napster 2.0 the DRM w
    • "I could carefully compare these 7 or 8 other online services, popping up like dot-bomb zombie clones, all of whom have exactly the same price, and try to figure out which is best AND will still be in business five years from now...or I could just go with iTunes as both the cool AND obvious choice."

      Why does your logic sound to me exactly like the average American voter's logic in the next presidential election (right before they vote for Bush)?

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @10:18PM (#7625059)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • I can only hope... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by IANAL(BIAILS) ( 726712 ) on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @10:24PM (#7625086) Homepage Journal
    I can only hope that this one will be availible in Canada. The Apple iTunes sounds really good, and I do *want* to pay for my music downloads, but right now it's just not possible. (Yes, i'm aware of that Canadian service, but the reviews seem to be mixed).
    • Hopefully Apple is able to get more distribution rights sewn up. Australia is supposed to get an iTunes music store early next year (does that mean US customers can buy music by Aussie artists?) However, they still have a ways to go even for the US market - I'm still waiting for more of the Capitol Records back catalog to go online. And what's with the lack of soundtracks/game tracks? I'd think that soundtrack CDs would be a natural fit with a digital download service, but I can't find Michael Giacchino
  • Well, I guess thats it. I'm the only entity in the known universe that doesn't have their own online music service.

    I thought there was hope for a while, but then when 7-11 was closely followed by Jiffy Lube into the online music business I began to wonder. Next thing you know, like the domino effect each unit in my townhouse community hopped on board the bandwagon.

    I'd set up a server too, except there is no longer any music that isn't tied up by exclusive agreements of one kind or another.

    And besides,

  • To recap recent news: (Score:5, Funny)

    by Cuthalion ( 65550 ) on Wednesday December 03, 2003 @10:56PM (#7625238) Homepage
    Apple says "We're really not making any money selling tons of music over the interent [slashdot.org]"

    AOL [slashdot.org], HP, Wal*mart [slashdot.org], Microsoft [slashdot.org], Napster [slashdot.org], etc all say: "Not making any money?! Shit! I gotta get me some of that!". Hilarity ensues.
  • With Dell, HP, Gateway and the like jumping onto the bandwagon, there's little chance that Microsoft will introduce an upgrade that will break the functionality of the iTMS.

    One thing that's missing from all other online music stores it seems, though, is outside promotions. Apple seems to have the jump on everyone with it's Pepsi promotion. I don't see Napster or Dell trying the like to gain market share and brand awareness.
  • HP used to be have a good name in computers, while I remember nothing about frustration about Compaq. Anyone remember bios on the hard drives?

    I know Dell makes total crap and has terrible tech support for standard users. I've never had less then a 45 minute wait, and their standard fix seems to be to replace it with another POS by overnight mail.

    I was wondering if anyone has noticed any changes in HP quality since the merger. Are their computers still worth getting, or have they become more like touchy
  • Competition is good, okay. What bothers me though, is that all of these music sellers are 1) tying your music to a certain platform (windows PC, or Mac OS X for Apple) 2) tying your music (in particular Apple) to a certain hardware (iPod).
    Now how am I supposed to buy music from the three or four different sellers (Apple, Dell, HP for example, MS in the future) and keed it organized in one simple library of songs / one MP3 player?
    Simple: I can't. I have to have iTunes reading the iTMS songs; WMP playing MS'

  • WMA, WMA... oh, WMA! (Score:2, Insightful)

    by nikster ( 462799 )
    We all fall for the scam. We follow. We are lemmings. We cannot question The Standard. It's god-made. No one questions The Standard. We know - we fall for the same pyramid scheme. Over and over again. But we can't help it. Maybe we hope for mercy. They couldn't -possibly- push us out of the business after we build it up. Could they? Could they? Noooo.. That would be too evil. Even for them. No way. No way.

    What's the outcome if you use WMA - or any other Microsoft-owned standard?

    Two possibilities:
    - If yo
  • # sed -e s/Invent/Imitate/p

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