Two Blanks Against the Trend 309
skdffff writes "German band Eisbrecher has decided to make a statement for its fans and for music consumers in general and is releasing their album ("Eisbrecher") including a bonus DVD with 2 blank CD-Rs which have the same label as the CD itself. Alexx Wesselsky (singer and head of the group): 'We are of the opinion that the music buyers are criminalized enough and have been made responsible for the wretched state in the music industry. We are giving them the chance to make 2 legal copies for private use with "official blanks".'"
bah (Score:4, Insightful)
remember, the USA is the country where your discontent will be sold back to you.
Re:bah (Score:2, Informative)
Re:bah (Score:3, Insightful)
Shock horror! (Score:5, Funny)
this is just a publicity stunt.
Which, of course, is a real surprise coming from the record industry. I bet you feel a right tit. (boom boom)
Of course it is (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:bah (Score:5, Interesting)
I've lost count of the number of times I've been emailed about it, from anonymous do gooders making sure that I know they know I'm serving copyrighted goods online, and that it's illegal, and that I could get in some great trouble. Even had one guy argue with me until he broke down into swearing and abuse insisting the RIAA would have my balls on a platter.
The punchline? It's music I've written, I've recorded, I hold copyright over, but as part of that copyright I allow my music to be downloaded.
Bright Tunes v. Harrisongs (Score:3, Funny)
It's music I've written, I've recorded, I hold copyright over
Are you sure? What way have you of knowing that you didn't just subconsciously copy substantial portions of someone else's copyrighted work? George Harrison got in trouble for that [columbia.edu].
Re:bah (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:bah (Score:3, Interesting)
Artists release dual mode CDs (Score:4, Insightful)
This was a mixed-mode CD where the audio came first and then the data. Placing the CD in an audio player gives the sound, so there is no blast of noise when the data is placed on the CD first.
Also there were a few selections of other artists from the same small label on the CD in MP3 form.
This is pretty neat and is an example of the RIAA companies should be doing to address this issue. It's too bad that these companies are all run by bozos who have let all the cocaine, limos, bimbos, and rock-star celebrity cloud their business sense.
Another idea would be is to have the original mix tracks on the CD in MP3 form along with a program that allows the buyers to remix to songs differently. Remove that irritating guitar solo, add more reverb on the bass, things like this.
Similar case (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.wired.com/news/digiwood/0,1412,55926 , 00
I agree. Lots of people don't understand copyright. Many on Slashdot too.
Many think copying stuff is stealing for instance. They just don't understand that if copying is stealing, since there are plenty of existing (and extensive) laws in most countries to handle theft (in myriad forms too) there would be no need for copyright laws, since the theft laws are there.
Re:bah (Score:2)
I don't want to annoy too much but which part of "German band" did you not understand?
Re:bah (Score:5, Interesting)
And it worked.
I'm going to buy this album and I've never even heard of this band. Sooner or later, the music industry will realize that the old ways are dead. Pretty soon, McDonalds and Taco Bell will be record labels of their own, selling new releases with the purchase of a value meal.
What did you think that those Wifi installations [newswireless.net] were for anyway? New cell phones will have WiFi and Bluetooth by the end of '05. It will be easy.
Re:bah (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:bah (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps if this CD sells because of its notoriety and because loads of people like the idea of getting a couple of free CD-R's with the logo on, maybe they might get a clue that there might be ways of exploiting the free (as in beer) exchange of copyright material for their own profit.
If they did that, then they may stop looking like a load of sad King Kanute's and start looking like a bunch of people with brains and flair.
I'm so conflicted (Score:5, Funny)
About time (Score:4, Insightful)
I remember thinking to myself... If only the artists and the consumers got together to fight the evil music oppressors, we all might start getting somewhere.
This looks like a very good start
a good start, indeed (Score:4, Insightful)
With the relatively high demand for portability, I wonder if a band would be willing to pre-RIP their songs into MP3s or AAC or whatever format directly onto their CDs for personal use... just a thought on similar lines.
great idea (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:great idea (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:great idea (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:great idea (Score:5, Informative)
Re:great idea (Score:3, Informative)
Re:great idea (Score:5, Funny)
Didn't Wile E. Coyote fall off of many cliffs due to this?
Where can I download? (Score:2, Funny)
That's clever, but... (Score:5, Interesting)
(the term "bright lining" means doing some activity with a full knowledge of where the law or regulation is and doing something right up to this regulation, this living up to the letter of the law, though, the implication is, not the spirit.)
Copyright is a socially constructed concept. Basically, copyrightholders are entitled to a monopoly of sorts for a limited time on their work. most people agree that the primary reason for this is to encourage more creation of works.
When people talk in terms of "it's legally okay to copy a song from the radio" or "it's legally okay to copy three pages, but not the whole book", then they are basically referring to PRAGMATIC copyright interpreations and rulings based on past technological and social circumstance. as technology and social circumstance change, it may become necessary to change (usually tighten) what is allowed in order to best preserve the spirit and intention of copyright, which, again, is to encourage authors.
here's a really obvious sign of when the spirit of copyright is broken--i call it the "extrapolation" argument. basically, somebody takes an existing interpretation and tries to "scale it up":
* sharing music with your kid sister is ok, so sharing music with everybody's kid sister is (Napster)
* photocopying one page is ok, so let's set up a distributed system via amazon's new full-text thing by which everybody downloads one page and somehow they are combined again (slashdot/amazon)
* MIT has a blanket license for analog music / copying music from existing analog sources of music is ok (radio - unscheduled recordings, includes ads, not complete songs), so let's play a clever trick by which people can get whatever they want in a high quality, but analog format (MIT)
All three of these will work, in the short term. And all three will generate stricter interpretations and a clamp-down, because they are so clearly against the spirit of the socially beneficial copyright law (oh, shut up already, completely-anti-copyright anarcho-libertarians - go and do a little historical research about every attempt to do away with copyrights and patents completely). The end result of this will be stricted interpretations and more bitching and whining on slashdot. What is the root cause of this? The evil RIAA and MPAA? Yes, they occasionally go overboard (the mickey mouse extension act is pretty egregious), but generally they are in the right.
The root cause is those who think that they're being clever by bright-lining copyright interpretations without realizing that they are interpretations that are subject to reasonable modification as circumstances warrant, not god-given cast-in-stone truths. or, in other words, more technological sense than social understanding.
Disagree? reply, not mod down.
Re:That's clever, but... (Score:5, Funny)
Bart: Uh, say, are you guys crooks?
Tony: Bart, um, is it wrong to steal a loaf of bread to feed your starving
family?
Bart: No.
Tony: Well, suppose you got a large starving family. Is it wrong to steal
a truckload of bread to feed them?
Bart: Uh uh.
Tony: And, what if your family don't like bread? They like... cigarettes?
Bart: I guess that's okay.
Tony: Now, what if instead of giving them away, you sold them at a price
that was practically giving them away. Would that be a crime, Bart?
Bart: Hell, no!
Tony: Enjoy your gift.
Re:That's clever, but... (Score:2)
Cheers
Re:That's clever, but... (Score:5, Informative)
The spirit of that decision, I think, can only be observed in one of two ways; short duration, strong copyright laws, or long duration, weak copyright laws. The problem with the egregious Disney extensions is that they apply to other copyrights.
The ridiculous result is that Disney now owns a large percentage of what's in my head. They have relentlessly pursued copyright violations that were completely tangential to their trademarks and intellectual properties in order to establish the "don't fuck with the mouse" mindset, thus setting an example for everyone.
In short, I would quite agree with you if our copyright laws were still as originally written; I cannot agree based on current law.
Re:That's clever, but... (Score:5, Interesting)
If a person wants to give every customer who buys their song a license to make 2 backups for private use that is their perogative. They're not saying 'here, take these blank cd-rs and make some "legal" backup copies of all your metallica albums', they're not saying 'make a copy and distribute it to your friends'. They're saying that music they produce should be able to be backed up as per fair use, and they're giving people a helping hand doing it.
Perhaps I simply disagree with you that the spirit of copyright law should force those who have damaged media to have to pay twice. Or that the spirit of copyright law should forbid people to be able to transfer music between different media such as mp3/ogg/aac players. The extrapolation argument you said is okay, but nowhere do I see Eisbrecher advocating that people break the spirit of copyright law as you said.
Re:That's clever, but... (Score:2)
Copyright was originally about exact copies (publishing) and did not create a blury protection of derivative works - this only stifles ideas - what is the public good?
Re:That's clever, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:That's clever, but... (Score:5, Informative)
Chapter 8 [critical-art.net] ("The Financial Advantages of Anti-copyright " - pdf) of "Digital Resistance [critical-art.net]" might interest you. It debunks some of the more persistent capitalist myths behind the idea of "copyright for the protection of the artist".
I find CAE's [critical-art.net] other books [critical-art.net] quite interesting as well. It's quite hard for me to find well-written material related to the intersection between technology and culture, any pointers?
Re:That's clever, but... (Score:3, Insightful)
You cited cases where people are not actually breaking the law "as written" but they are breaking the "spirit" in which it was written.
Thankfully, I have not found this tendency among the various High Court and Supreme Court Judges. They do seem to fully understand the spirit
Re:That's clever, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
I disagree with you. I believe society can now handle a "patentless/copyrightless" society.
I do NOT believe they are beneficial in their current form. Most artists and inventers receive next to nothing in compensation when corporations and associations gain all th economic benefits.
And at the same time, these rights have been so extended (both in time and in scope) as to be unconstitutional...
Frankly, I think it's time some damage is done. However, I believe said damage should a) not harm life or limb, b) not harm non-combatants (such as myDoom virus)
Re:That's clever, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
The giant media corporations have destroyed the idea of copyright themselves by bribing legislators in the USA to change the copyright time period from limited to indefinite. Since they refuse to release copyrighted material into public domain (by permanently extending the copyright period), the consumers refuse to acknowledge their ownership of the copyright by using new digital technology to make extensive and widespread copies.
Corporations don't understand the idea of 'social compact' and never will. In the long run, they will dissolve themselves due to inability to control digital copyright, but they will send many random people to prison to set examples and will destroy many works by encrypting them and refusing to release the decryption keys or allowing the sale of the product.
Re:That's clever, but... (Score:4, Interesting)
When another band I am fond of released a "bootleg" copy of an album that had gone out of print, was this in the spirit of the law or letter of the law?
While most argue about the ability to profit from a piece of work, one aspect is overlooked: control.
The other side of the coin is a manufacture who refuses to purchase rights from an individual, waits until the patient expires, and then proceeds to use said idea in their product (the case I'm thinking of dealt with sweeteners, but the details escape me now). The problem is the manufacturer would not have even known about sweetener without the patient. Why bother with a patent at all?
It is to give the creator a reason to present the idea. Imagine I had created a cure for cancer and left it to rot on some dusty shelf. What good is a patent now?
In the case with the Smashing Pumpkins and the other band, that is precisely what the copyright law has done; allowed the works to rot. By pushing the pragmatic aspect of the copyright, they have actually moved closer to the spirit of the law; they have maintained control of their work. The German band is no different.
Stricter interpretations will only incite more flagrant violations: the more laws you have, the more criminals you have. The more egregious the law, the more egregious the crime. The current trespasses on copyrights should perhaps serve as a warning that the current laws are inappropriate instead of a reason to pass even stricter laws.
More importantly, the creation of new works. It is hard to understand how stricter controls will somehow lead to a greater dissemination of an idea. The logical extrapolation is no access to any ideas. This is a dangerous precedent.
How well does copyright scale? (Score:3, Informative)
And almost everyone has photographic (+audio +video) memory (think current digital camera + pda + extrapolated). And almost everyone have a form of telepathy by transferring those memories wirelessly.
Who owns those memories? You hear some music, you "remember" it. Is it infringement to share your memories with your friend? Or with others? Or is it not your memory and the RIAA/MPAA requires a cut for each transfer? Or you lose access after 1 transfer?
Or do you
Re:That's clever, but... (Score:3, Insightful)
Most of the people who infringe on copyrights aren't plagiarizing because they don't falsely claim "I wrote this song, I wrote this program".
However I'm not sure if this can be considered plagiarism or not given that it is posted under an "anonymous coward" account. It doesn't attribute the original author tho.
Difference in laws between Germany and US (Score:5, Interesting)
The *AAs focus on the macro-scale because they know the argument is much more convincing if they try and say the average user is 'stealing' and 'distributing' to thousands of people. Instead, the average person is most likely willing to pay for a song if the price is right and the restrictions aren't too severe. iTunes seems to be doing fine, and the competitors are springing up.
Re:Difference in laws between Germany and US (Score:5, Interesting)
Hell, I'll buy it (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Hell, I'll buy it (Score:5, Interesting)
I wonder if it will be subject to blank digital audio recordable media levies? You know, the ones which go into the hands of the enemy :-)
Of course it is a stunt (Score:3, Insightful)
Comparing business models (Score:5, Interesting)
The trouble is that the business model of "Litigate until you show a profit" is somewhat self-perpetuating whereas this new one is risky...
Nice, but it's been done before (Score:5, Informative)
The statement that they had was 'Home taping is killing big entertainment industry profits; we left side two blank so you can help'
Re:Nice, but it's been done before (Score:5, Funny)
I guess they were hoping you would copy side one to side two and then give side two to one of your frie... oh, wait. =)
Brilliant distribution scheme (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe I'm missing something (Score:5, Interesting)
Because... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Maybe I'm missing something (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a nice way of saying "Giving away copies of our work can be good for us, too".
Re:Maybe I'm missing something (Score:3, Insightful)
I'd be more impressed if it came with MP3s for your MP3 player or something, copying CDs hasn't been as big an issue for quite a while. (Of course, if I ever get a new CD, I usually burn a copy immediately for my car. I'm not going to subject the original to the temperature changes my car experiences, I'll let the CD-R last as long as it can going from -10 degrees in the winter to 120 degrees in the summer. Except I haven't gotten a new CD in ag
Re:Maybe I'm missing something (Score:2, Insightful)
Maybe because they're trying to give just enough to keep people happy, but keep the level low enough that no real damage is done. Maybe because if they say that two copies are OK, people will feel guilty about making more. (cf zero tolerance policies, which are frequently ignored, often ridiculed, and -- with the exception of grade schools and underage DUI laws -- rarely enforced) </conspiracy>
Seriously though. Could
Not limiting their imagination (Score:2, Insightful)
Legal? (Score:5, Interesting)
What are Germany's laws in regards to this?
Re:Legal? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd expect German law (and US, along with probably every Berne signatory) says "you've been given permission by the copyright holder(s) to make the two copies, so go ahead.
Re:Legal? (Score:3, Insightful)
Basically, they said you could, so you can make 2 copies, legally. You could do it in front of a judge, and he'd just have to sit there, grooving on it.
That's Nice -- Wrong Trend (Score:5, Insightful)
I was unaware that the music industry had been doing much complaining about people making copies of CDs for personal use. I could have sworn they were much more upset about people either A) giving out mix CDs or B) downloading illegal files.
I don't see how this move will really effect anything. You can give out two copies to a friend, I guess (although that's illegal), and it will have the official CD logo. Or something.
Of course, the CD-R won't last as long as the real CD anyway and nothing would have prevented people from copying the CD anyway. This is just some dumb gimic to grab attention, and it seems to have worked.
If this were a band offering free MP3s for download, that might be interesting. It isn't, it's just a band saying that they don't mind people using fair use rights. (Or whatever they are in Germany and the EU, I don't know.)
I guess I don't see what the big deal is.
Re:That's Nice -- Wrong Trend (Score:2)
well... it's not illegal in germany. or the netherlands. or much of the rest of europe.
Re:That's Nice -- Wrong Trend (Score:3, Informative)
Although, wat is legal (at least in the Netherlands) is this:
1. You give the original CD to a friend.
2. He copies it.
3. Then he gives the original back to you.
It's legal to copy anything for yourself, not for others.
(that's also what you pay extra for on every CD-R)
Re:That's Nice -- Wrong Trend (Score:5, Informative)
Check out the link in my sig, www.magnatune.com [magnatune.com]
Those artists are offering free MP3s of their albums.
Plus they get a 50% cut of what you decide to pay for the album. Great idea imo.
You buy the albums through the internet by the way, downloadable in different formats (WAV/OGG/MP3/FLAC)
CDBaby [cdbaby.com] is also doing something like this. (although they sell real CD's, not downloads)
Re:That's Nice -- Wrong Trend (Score:3, Informative)
Re:That's Nice -- Wrong Trend (Score:3, Informative)
Depends on whether your legal system is already fucked up, or is still in the process of being screwed over.
In most of europe, the legal concept of the "private copy" is not yet dead. It's being choked, of course, and the RIAA would love to put it out of its misery.
What it means essentially is that you are explicitly allowed to make copies for personal purposes, such as backups, or to have a seperate CD in your car, or giving them
hd... (Score:3, Funny)
Why bother with blanks? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Why bother with blanks? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Why bother with blanks? (Score:2)
Normal CDs cost next to nothing. They are much cheaper than recordable CDs. The main cost is in setting up the process, so there are economies of scale - printing 3 times as many CDs will be much less than 3 times as expensive. The only way they would be saving money is if they are shipping their album on CDR, in which case the
Re:Why bother with blanks? (Score:4, Interesting)
Even in volume prices on CD-R's those prices are competitive.
Re:Why bother with blanks? (Score:2, Insightful)
This way, they are allowing their fans to actively replicate the CD themselves, which is usually illegal, and pisses off the RIAA something chronic. It's a slap in the face to the RIAA. It's a bit out of date, though - the real deal would be to release the album on Kazaa/edonkey. If there was more legal music on P2P networks, their argument holds less water.
Grrrr (Score:5, Funny)
I'm going to download the tracks off p2p in protest.
Re:Grrrr (Score:2, Insightful)
2 official copies (Score:2, Interesting)
but then again, if I buy a gun....
Re:2 official copies (Score:2)
Now, if they'd included.. (Score:2)
Am I missing something? (Score:3, Insightful)
How is this more 'helpful' than, say, simply enclosing two additional CDs with the album already recorded onto it, thereby saving their fans the trouble of duping the CD when the CD-R already has the album's label glued onto it?
Re:Am I missing something? (Score:2)
Fantastic (Score:2, Interesting)
But seriously, I don't think this will have much effect on the music industry. If a big artist like Britney Spears (well, there's something big about her) would do this, then it would get a lot more media attention, in this case in the mainstream press and not on a backwater website like Slashdot (Joe Normal doesn't read this website)
Re:Fantastic (Score:5, Funny)
Yes I do!
It's been done beofre (Score:5, Informative)
This [typicallyspanish.com] is the only comment I found in English (last paragraph).
those discs will be great (Score:2, Funny)
;_)
shellac (Score:2, Informative)
A most excellent first step! However... (Score:5, Insightful)
We do this because we're a bar band. We're not with a major label. We have no distribution besides selling our recordings by hand at our gigs and maybe garnishing a wee bit of counter space at a local Mom&Pop coffee shop or two (not to mention, of course, giving them away as presents and sharing online via P2P). We do this because we figure the more our music gets out there, the more of chance that somebody from a label will hear us and like us and we'll finally be able to just do what we really love for a living - making music.
Now, let's assume that our dreams come true. We makes lots of cash solely by making music. Well, we've all agreed that as soon as our first contract expires, we would only sign another one that allows people to distribute our music freely. Why? Simply put, we've already started making a living at what we love, and we know that people will continue to buy our CD's, whether or not they can get our music for free! This is a proven fact!!!
Sure, we might not end up being as filthy rich as other music stars, but who cares? Greed sucks. Allowing the most amount of people as possible on this planet to enjoy what we, too, enjoy more than almost anything else (sound familiar to any of you Linux programmers?) - now THAT would be AWESOME!
-A witty .sig proves nothing.
weird (Score:2)
This is hardly new (Score:3, Interesting)
It seems to me all Eis-brecher are doing is the same thing, only brought up-to-date.
Please remember socialist != communist.
Just a statement (Score:5, Insightful)
The CDs are blank, probably to avoid extra payments to copyright holders. Although the CDs are empty, they've been printed on, and therefore earmarked for this particular purpose. Of course this is impractical, but it's supposed to be. It's just a statement, and a good one too.
Audio CD-R or CD-R for the PC? (Score:3, Informative)
Normal CD-R cost only 0.40 Euro that's about $1 (+labeling) for the 2 CD-R included in this CD.
only first 5000 CDs with blanks (Score:2, Interesting)
Ironically.... (Score:3, Informative)
The Rosenbergs (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.livedaily.com/news/2625.html
Dead Kennedys (Score:5, Funny)
"Home taping is killing big entertainment industry profits, we left side two blank so you can help."
I believe the album was released in 1981.
Eisbrecher beware, Captain Kaos will Strike! (Score:3, Funny)
Now for the truly evil part the scheme - I will replace copies of Eisbrecher's album in record shops with my Genesis version, and the poor shoppers will be dumbfounded and confused when they put it into the CD player, and don't hear the music they expect. When they check the label, they will be even more confused! Ha ha ha!
Captain Kaos strikes again!
US Copyright Summary (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Info about the band (Score:5, Funny)
Hitler must be spinning in his lake of fire!
Re:Info about the band (Score:3, Informative)
There are many German rappers singing in German, too, but it's too slow, watered down and bland for my taste.
Re:Info about the band (Score:4, Funny)
Hitler must be spinning in his lake of fire!
Well, maybe. But if he could look at todays Germany, the fact of there being a rap scene or not would only slightly alter the rotation speed... there's too much other stuff that would make him spin...
Re:Info about the band (Score:4, Insightful)
It's the integration and unity of races that is growing in modern urban areas that increases the angular velocity of Herr Adolf. The fact that there's some modern clicks and whistles coming out of their Blaupunkt speakers would probably not increase this outrage.
Re:Info about the band (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Info about the band (Score:2)
A little different compared to other German rappers? Because, from your description, they sound like the German Linkin Park. Or a
Re:Info about the band (Score:5, Informative)
Best chances to hear one of their songs is at one of the many wave/gothic clubs in germany. Most probably during one of their industrial/noise sessions. (Mind you those genre names mean slightly different things in europe)
Both members have excellent track records making goth music and producing other bands of the genre. Before Eisbrecher they were rather succesful with their band Megaherz.
2. As far as I know they aren't on top of any german scene let alone the rap scene. Their debut has only recently been released in germany and they are currently not listet in the german 100 and aren't even listed in the german alternative charts. So I would not say they are top in germany at the moment.
Greetings from germany
Jef
Re:I bet.... (Score:3, Informative)
this is a band sticking it to the man!