iTunes Europe Goes Live 451
Spad writes "The Register is reporting the launch of iTunes in the UK, France and Germany. "iTunes will carry 700,000 songs from the five major record labels and independents, and prices for the download service start at 79 pence or 99 euro cents per song." It's not ideal (99c is about 55p) but it's better pricing than expected. I for one will be signing up to use it."
Since this is an Apple product (Score:5, Interesting)
How many Apple users are there in Europe anyway?
(Not trying to belittle them in any way, I'm just curious)
Re:Since this is an Apple product (Score:2)
Re:Since this is an Apple product (Score:5, Funny)
So all of them, you're saying.
Re:Since this is an Apple product (Score:2)
Personally, I like all the Free Software that I can run on my Mac... mmmmm GIMP.
Re:Since this is an Apple product (Score:5, Interesting)
I haven't seen a lot Macs, even though that the store that I worked for was one of the biggest Mac-retailers in the NL. They stopped selling them a while ago though, but I think they will be back soon since they are gaining popularity again.
Re:Since this is an Apple product (Score:5, Insightful)
I haven't seen a lot Macs, even though that the store that I worked for was one of the biggest Mac-retailers in the NL.
Could it be because Macs don't break as often?
Re:Since this is an Apple product (Score:3, Funny)
A friend of mine is a Mac repair technician. Mac people tend to be artsy types, and artsy types (unlike programmers) tend to smoke.
He posted a photo of a Mac motherboard owned by a smoker next to a picture of the anchor from the Titanic. Guess which had less accumulated grime.
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Since this is an Apple product (Score:5, Informative)
How many Apple users are there in Europe anyway?
(UK-specific)
I've encountered very few, mainly in printing/advertising, etc. Apple in the US seem to have targetted education heavily; in the UK that niche was filled first (80s) by Acorn and Research machines, then latterly by PC-clones.
The only two Macs I've seen recently were:
However... iPods appear to be extremely popular. I'd guess they're the Windows-variety, though. (I suppose it's also possible that there aren't that many iPods - just a lot of kids with white headphones ;)
Re:Since this is an Apple product (Score:5, Informative)
Reportedly [macworld.com], one out of every six iPods sold over the Christmas quarter last year was sold in the UK. Apparently they're every bit as popular in the UK as anywhere else.
Apple no longer makes Windows-specific iPods, incidentally. The earlier models were platform-specific, but the models made since April 28th of last year have all been officially Mac-Windows. I would indeed assume the overwhelming majority of those UK iPods are probably being used with Windows, of course.
Re:Since this is an Apple product (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Since this is an Apple product (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Since this is an Apple product (Score:5, Funny)
I work at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis, also in the Cell Biology department. We have one Bio-Rad confocal. Windows-only software that is terrible, full of bugs, and crashes all the time. We have Windows-only analysis software which the developer simply refuses to port to the Mac despite Apple practically begging them to. It runs, but it requires a hardware dongle -- stupid buggy thing. We do have a camera which has Mac drivers... the drivers never seem to crash.
I have some hope as Bio-Rad sold their confocal business to Zeiss. Maybe Zeiss will put out a Mac version of that horrid software.
Re:Since this is an Apple product (Score:4, Informative)
Gggrrrrrrr!!!!! (Score:3, Funny)
Must we wallow forever in the sinful pleasures of bearshare and kazaa?
Save us oh Jobby one!
uk + fr + de != eu (Score:4, Interesting)
Why not the whole of Europe? Did Apple also excluded one or more of the States of America?
Grmbl...
Re:uk + fr + de != eu (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, probably, because they could not agree with the record companies. That's why.
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:uk + fr + de != eu (Score:3, Interesting)
Strangely, the new Beastie Boys album is $15 in iTunes, and $10 at BestBuy, Circuit City and Target. Why wouldn't I just buy the CD, then?
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
EU iTunes Music Store in October (Score:4, Informative)
they also said the talks with the indies had just begun. same thing happened in the USA. i think it was mostly because of the legal issues. they need the big labels onboard to make the store look valid. the indies were offered "the same deal as the majors" and can choose if they want to sign on. it might also have had a little to do with keeping it under wraps till it was really ready. with so many indies, it would have been easy for info to leak out and we know how Apple hates that.
Re:uk + fr + de != eu (Score:2, Informative)
Re:uk + fr + de != eu (Score:5, Informative)
Europe has many varying laws, from country to country, I'd imagine.
That's broadly it - in theory there's a unified directive; in practice only two states had implemented it as of end 2002 [wikipedia.org].
Re:uk + fr + de != eu (Score:3, Informative)
Re:uk + fr + de != eu (Score:5, Informative)
For instance, see:
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2004/jun/15itun
Re:uk + fr + de != eu (Score:5, Informative)
On the other hand, I'm curious about something: amazon can sell music cd's across europe, why can't apple sell music files across europe? Does amazon have some kind of special deal to allow them to sell copyrighted materials in every country? Or is the internet again being treated like the bastard stepdaughter of the copyright world?
Shipping versus downloading (Score:5, Informative)
I suspect the difference is that Amazon.com just ships around pre-made physical goods, whereas iTunes Music Store offers digital downloading. It's essentially a completely new form of commerce.
Apple needs to convince the labels that they want to offer their product through iTMS, hence the need to negotiate deals. Apple has also said the labels make the actual music files, not Apple. So again, Apple has to convince the labels to put effort into encoding their products for iTMS.
Re:uk + fr + de != eu (Score:3, Informative)
You can't get anything delivered to a different country.
Not true. Amazon.co.uk sells to all countries in the EU. Amazon.com even sells music cd's to EU countries, but the price is prohibitively expensive.
Re:uk + fr + de != eu (Score:5, Interesting)
1) licensing issues. Each European country tends to have their own licensing agency, which licenses, say the latest Madonna track - even though the rights in all countries might be owned by a single company, you still have to go through these intermediaries (monopolies).
While it is in theory possible to negotiate terms with only one intermediary for the whole of Europe (and has been for some time, think only of all the unencrypted pan-European tv and radio stations) it is in practice not only hard to do (these monopolies are bureaucracies which have a hard time understanding the Internet - there IS no standard contract) but you won't be able to shop around for a European tarriff. That is, if you close a deal within a country, you can bargain, but pan-European rights are locked down in a monopoly by way of agreement along all the national intermediaries.
2) Europeans tend to speak different languages from country to country.
They also have entirely different national banking systems, which only pay lip service to a single European transaction system. (e.g. yes, you can transfer money using an IBAN account number at the same rate as national money transfers (sometimes this is free), but good luck getting a form or e-banking page in which you can enter an IBAN acct number - and if you, the bank, or the receiver screws up, the banks don't accept any liability what so ever. Credit cards come closest to an international standard for funds transfer, but few Europeans have them, and even fewer would give out the number on the internet).
Then there's the issue of sales tax, statutory customer rights (the EU wide policies only specify the minimum, so member states could have enacted laws that allow for returns of tunes), etc. etc.
Opening up a pan-European shopping site is no mean feat.
Re:uk + fr + de != eu (Score:3, Informative)
Well one of the biggest banks in the world, the Dutch ABN-Amro, does it. And it works like a charm. You just copy paste the IBAN number in the little insertfield write a comment, type the amount of money you want transfered *click* and your done. One day later the other guy has the money.
This really works well, and if you just copy paste the IBAN number it is very
Re:uk + fr + de != eu (Score:5, Informative)
I know of no one who does not have a credit card, with the possible exception of an old relative. I live in the UK. Is it different elsewhere in Europe?
It's hard to find exact statistics. Mastercard claims 3 million cardholders in Belgium, versus 450.000 VISA cardholders. In The Netherlands, the claims are 3 million MC, 2 million Visa. (There may be some overlap there).
Note that Belgium's population numbers 10 million, whereas The Netherlands has 16 million inhabitants, so even if you add up those cardholders, that's only 31% of the Dutch populace, and only 34.5% of the Belgian population that presumably have a credit card (which is not to say they ever use it - I know mine collects dust except for those 4 times a year I use it to buy stuff online; they're also often thrown in as a freebie with a bank's travel insurance).
In other words, if you only accept credit cards, you're scaring away at least 70% of your potential customers.
Note that in the US the number of cards issued stands at more than 700 million. More than 2.3 cards per person.
(This all neglects the fact that only adults can have a card, so the percentages are skewed. Though, not being able to sell to minors is also a disadvantage.)
In my experience, younger people, and people who travel are more likely to have a credit card.
It is said (my sources? google!) that credit card usage in France rivals that of the US, and in the UK and Germany usage levels are about the same.
Re:uk + fr + de != eu (Score:3, Informative)
The Euro prices will be maintained when Apple launches a pan-European store to cater for the continents other nations. Jobs promised it would open by "October", and will initially be offered only in English. Jobs offered no comment on the launch of Canadian or Japanese stores.
So it is probably a combination of having to bash out licencing issues with the companies, and logistical issues to do
UK pricing (Score:4, Interesting)
We still pay the highest price, but I'm getting used to being shafted out of every penny I own here anyway.
Re:UK pricing (Score:3, Funny)
Windows 98 + iTunes (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Windows 98 + iTunes (Score:5, Insightful)
You do understand that the difference between XP/2K and 98 is pretty huge when it comes to underlying technology, right? Of course you don't, otherwise you wouldn't make a comment like that. Apple would much rather focus on making it work well on the platforms that people use now, vs. grandfathering in a 6 year old OS.
Re:Windows 98 + iTunes (Score:3, Insightful)
It's kind of an unusual practice in the PC world...generally, services are used for things which run all the time and are related to maintenance of the system. So why does iTunes use services as opposed to threads? Well, I dunno. My theory i
Re:Windows 98 + iTunes (Score:3, Insightful)
But, do you understand... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Windows 98 + iTunes (Score:2)
Tragedy of the commons (Score:4, Insightful)
So I'm curious as to what sorts of predictions people have for when the market gets completely saturated with music services. Particularly with ones like OD2's which is a generic music store that they sell to lots of people which leads to a lot of the same stuff with different branding.
Will we start seeing buyouts? Which ones do you think will go out of business?
Re:Tragedy of the commons (Score:3, Informative)
Not much on there yet... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Not much on there yet... (Score:5, Insightful)
Why not simply go the full mile? I want every music track, movie, tv-show and computer game ever produced, and I've got an attention span of about 30 seconds so you better hurry up. Sell to me dammit, I've got cash! It's the inevitable conlcusion to all of this, being able to queue up that one funny episode from your fav sitcom from Poland from the 80's, and having it instantly. The money the media companies could be making is a magnitude greater than what they get today, by truly selling on a global level absolutely everything they've got in their dusty archives and all future productions. It's ultimate distribution channel so if it can be digitized and sold it should.
Sigh, something tells me they'd rather just work on DRM and new region encoding schemes.
Re:Not much on there yet... (Score:5, Interesting)
In my cicle of friends I see a lot of people downloading not the films/series that are broadcasted on TV here in the Netherlands, but especially the stuff that's not on the local networks.
Japaneese Anime, Brasilian soaps, indy music, episodes that have aired in the USA but not yet in europe, etc.
They would pay for a legal alternative, but it just is not there.
There are hundreds of niche markets that do not warrant nation wide broadcasting, but could make gold money in some bittorrent/iTunes combination, where increased demand would increase the number of nodes.
DSL+Tivo-like product could do this in a very convenient way. The box would function as a seed for the last 20 things you downloaded next to the Tivo like behaviour.
Exchange Rates (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Exchange Rates (Score:5, Insightful)
So just imagine how much you get shafted when compared to the U.S.
However, to be honest
1. You should be used to this, especially compared to the U.S. Software prices are in the order of 15-40% higher here. One might argue 'shipping costs' but fact of the matter is that the same price difference applies to 'download only' versions of the software.
2. They needed a nice psychological number. 0.99 is one in many countries, but would put the price too high in the UK. 0.49 is another, but would put it too low. So go in the middle - 0.79
Or, more likely
3. When the Euro was first instated, the exchange rate was 1 Euro = (almost) 79p.
Re:Exchange Rates (Score:3, Insightful)
Removing the 17.5% VAT, the price is about 67pence. Which is about $1.21. So you are complaining about a 22 cent difference... And do you think Apple should be adjusting the price when the exchange rate changes? Right now the dollar happens to be really low. What happens when it gets higher? Apple would have to raise the prices. Do you w
Re:Exchange Rates (Score:4, Informative)
Why would I buy a virtual CD for 7.99 when I can get the real thing for 8.99 including postage [cd-wow.com]?
Re:Exchange Rates (Score:5, Funny)
No OS9 support (Score:3, Insightful)
Seems like a huge own-goal to me, and I'm a Mac fanatic.
Re:No OS9 support (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:No OS9 support (Score:3, Informative)
Re:No OS9 support (Score:3, Insightful)
And it is really worth it, trust me.......
Re:No OS9 support (Score:3, Insightful)
Bah... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Bah... (Score:3, Funny)
Okay, I'll bite...
Assuming that Puerto Rico is the 51st "State," what's 52nd?
Re:Bah... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Bah... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Bah... (Score:3, Funny)
So the order goes: Arizona, Canada, Alaska, Hawaii, Afghanistan, Iraq. Canada is the 49th State. Iraq is the 53rd.
That's right. Not only did I take the time to reply to a troll, I did some research too.
Re:Bah... (Score:3, Funny)
too expensive? (Score:3, Interesting)
Btw, is it illegal to download the cdcover of the full cd if you bought only a couple of tracks?
HOW expensive again? Check out allofmp3.com (Score:3, Informative)
Re:HOW expensive again? Check out allofmp3.com (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:HOW expensive again? Check out allofmp3.com (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Worrying (Score:3, Informative)
Re:HOW expensive again? Check out allofmp3.com (Score:3, Informative)
They're based in Russia, which does not have a separate copyright on downloads, so they get by on the kind of license that your local radio station would have (although some claim they don't even have, others claim they don't need, that licence), which is vastly cheaper seeing as the Russian market won't put up with US/EU levels of licensing prices (with less to be made from advertising).
This is also why the RIAA have their panties in a bunch over digital radio - i
A worthy effort (Score:3, Interesting)
I wonder to what extent Apple's business model anticipates a similar crackdown on this side of the pond?
Re:A worthy effort (Score:5, Informative)
Apple's business model is to make things even more convenient, allow people to be honest, and offer it at a price that's not much worse than free.
Sure, there are still plenty of people out there just downloading whatever they can find for nothing, just as there are people who shoplift in brick and mortar stores. But that doesn't mean there's no money to be made in selling stuff.
Language Issues (Score:4, Insightful)
Also, many artists have their recordings in multiple languages (like Eros/Laura in italian/spanish/portugese etc). Would be interesting to see how they unify or resolve the cultural differences
Re:Language Issues (Score:3, Insightful)
There have been non-English music on iTunes since it's launch. Then why would it be a problem now? They will most likely do the same thing they are doing now; they append " (Spanish Version)" or Italian or whatever to the song name.
If you want to search for Spanish songs by some artist, do a simple "Artist name Spanish" search, and you should get all the Spanish songs by the artist.
What was the problem, again?
Bad news for Apple (Score:3, Interesting)
No Franz Ferdinand? No White Stripes? No Dizzee Rascal?
No thanks, Steve.
Re:Bad news for Apple (Score:4, Informative)
Are you sure? (Score:4, Informative)
So, I wouldn't say the independent labels are not signing up, they're there, it's just an issue of providing the same library we get in the US to you guys across the pond.
Welcome to International Business (Score:5, Informative)
Prices are set in local markets based upon localized demand and competition (limited monopoly pricing power from brand, even in a relatively competitive market), etc.
Right now, it is cheaper for Germans to buy German cars sold in America and reimport them, because even with the cost of shipping the car from the states, the Euro is so strong on the dollar that it results in the importing the American made German car is cheaper.
Companies set prices (usually with local subsidiaries because of assinine international tax laws) in each country. Many companies will engage in "hedging" with the currency derivative market, because they aren't in the business of currency speculation (although if it should work out in the long run, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, then paying the commissions on those trades isn't economically intelligent, but it's important for hitting quarterly/annual numbers, joys of public accounting).
However, the price will be set in the European market based upon the prevailing price there. However, that is in part because of Apple's limited "monopoly" pricing power (note, this is NOT monopoly a la anti-trust, it's in a competitive market with highly similiar substitute goods, like CDs, pirated music, etc.), but only Apple sets the price for iTMS downloads.
One of the things that the Internet and digital transfers has the potential to do is destroy regionalized pricing, at least within the English (and then Spanish, etc.) speaking world. In that scenario, Apple could set prices in each store based upon local trends, but consumers could buy from whichever store TODAY's currency price makes most beneficial. That is great for consumers, but lousy for corporate profits (then they ALWAYS lose on the currency fluctuation, because the business goes to whatever is cheapest that day).
However, a Euro price that isn't identical to US pricing with TODAY'S rate of exchange makes sense. The Euro is up something like 30% on the Dollar in the past 12 months. If that trend reverses, and 1 $ = 1 E again, then a Euro price of 55 cents would devastate Apple. The Euro was established at a price level to make the nominal exchange of Euros to Dollars approx. 1:1, which would obviously fluctuate.
Consumers in general are more interested in pricing in their local currency then international pricing. Although the Internet has changed things SLIGHTLY, in general, most consumers don't engage in International trade, but rather buy from an organization that has imported the products for them. Hence Amazon has localized businesses, Apple set up local Apple AND now iTMS to price in the local currency. Cars are priced in each local market.
However, the free flow of information will reduce that ability over time, which is a good thing, but you shouldn't be shocked that it isn't instant.
Alex
I want globalisation *for everyone* (Score:3, Interesting)
Region encoding on DVDs was only the most blatant example where markets were kept artifically separate, but it extends to many other areas, particularly cars (VW has been convicted under EU law for trying to stop Germans buying V
Re:I want globalisation *for everyone* (Score:3, Insightful)
Or presumably because it would get them sued by copyright holders because the deal under which they sell songs in the USA only covers the USA or indicted for tax evasion because each nation has it's own laws & taxes.
I'm sure that if Apple is making a profit at
Price differentiation (Score:5, Interesting)
I thought that the EU was dead against people being able to price people differently based on country. In other words, if you go to a site, that site can't give you a different price based on your country of origin. But, that having a UK site and a French site with different prices is OK.
That's not Europe! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:That's not Europe! (Score:3, Informative)
That's probably because the United States of America is the only country in America that has the word America in its name. Besides, the term America as you would want us to use it is a grouping. It's all of the countries in North and South America. There is almost never a need to use the term America when speaking of North and South America. When's the last time you heard someone use the term Eurasia in a sentence outs
Magnatune.com (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Magnatune.com (Score:3, Informative)
As for either one being a good deal.
Comment removed (Score:3, Interesting)
And when did iTunes NOT let you burn? (Score:3, Informative)
Moreover, you would be suprised at how clear the 128kbps AAC is. Just for the sake of testing, I own a copy of a song (ATB - Don't Stop) on CD, and I bought another copy on ITMS and burned it onto a CD. I l
But it's still a rip off... (Score:3, Interesting)
You for one may decide to use it, but on the other hand, I for one will continue to purchase my CDs for 6.99 for CD-Wow (average of 11 tracks at 6.99 is 64pence a track) with the added bonuses of
a - Better sound quality
b - no restrictions on how many different devices I play it on
c - no restrictions on how many times I can rip it
d - the possibility of ripping it to the (superior) ogg format.
e - the artist getting a bigger cut of my money
f - casing, and cover art
So when you buy a CD, you get more for less. Hmmmmm so tell em again, exactly why is iTunes such a great deal?
Depends on how you use it (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:But it's still a rip off... (Score:3, Informative)
Breaking the CD copy protection is illegal by law, so even if you could use say a HIFI CD-player with optical digital out and a soundcard in your PC with optical digital in to do this, it would be illegal.
So this sums up to:
a - Yes, but with some scratches, you'll be lucky to hear any
Variety of Tracks (Score:3, Interesting)
different selections how? (Score:4, Interesting)
Devon
Re:oh well (Score:2, Informative)
Re:oh well (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Who cares? (Score:3, Insightful)
Peace
Re:Who cares? (Score:5, Informative)
I mean, it's not like independent labels don't exist, don't sign bands and don't release albums to the mass market INCLUDING over iTunes. In fact, iTunes has more independent labels than any other online music store. You don't think SONY Connect is gonna court Asian Man Records, do you?
I've actually been quite surprised by the number of GOOD artists who get above-the-fold promotion on iTunes. Even the ones who don't are displayed RIGHT NEXT to their corporate shilling brethern. And the selection beats the crap out of the most ecclectic brick & mortars I've seen. I mean, iTunes has the friggin' Kind Geedorah [apple.com] record. I had to literally threaten violence at my local Newbury Comics to get them to even ORDER that shit, and even then it cost me $20.
Re:iTunes or All of MP3? (Score:4, Insightful)
- NOT to support artists, who have no say in whether or not their music is on allofmp3 and get little to no money in return
- NOT to support change in the US by saying "hey, I am willing to buy music for a fair price," but instead demanding an impossibly low price.
- NOT to support the concept of copyright, which is all artists have to protect them from rampant piracy. It's not just there to make corporations money, you know...there are artists whose work is so heavily pirated they've basically become unviable (several hip-hop acts come to mind).
- CHOOSE to support a black market whose "legality" is based on a crooked organization who has assumed control over music it had no part in making and plays no part in supporting. You may think that it should be legal, but in my eyes it's no better than KaZaa.
Re:iTunes or All of MP3? (Score:3, Insightful)
Wasn't the original copyright period in the US something like 14 years [earlyamerica.com] (with a possible 14 year renewal)?
Seems like its been more than 28 years since 1973.
Re:That Expensive? (Score:3, Insightful)
Plenty of people like iTunes. They've sold 70 million songs in a little over a year. Obviously these people think they're getting something worthwhile. I think it's great that people are willing to pay for what's essentially a bunch of bits. Seeing as I like computers and crea
Re:That Expensive? (Score:3, Insightful)
About time! What are the middlemen value-added services again?
dani++
Re:Does anyone else here wonder how long it's... (Score:5, Insightful)
However, as you noted, Apple is certainly branching into consumer electronics, so it's more likley that they will continue to be a hardware company, but just one not completely focused on the computer market only. Given Apple's numerous awards for industrial design and cachet as being "sexy" and "upscale", it's probably a smart move (as the success of the iPod has proven).
Hardware was, is and probably will remain to be what Apple's all about.
Re:I just don't understand... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Too much.... (Score:3, Interesting)
I did a little bit of digging on AllofMP3.com, but nowhere did I come across statistics on just how big a piece of the pie the artists are getting. Where are you getting your numbers from?