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Television Media

TiVo Bug Shuts Out Many Series 1 TiVo Owners? 166

Posted by simoniker from the life-blood-seeping-away dept.
Didion Sprague writes "A bug in recently released DirecTv/TiVo software is allegedly causing major chaos with many TiVo users -- forcing many users over the past few days to upgrade their Series 1 Tivo boxes to newer, Series 2 models (which retail for $79). Apparently lots of folks on the TiVo Community forum and DBS forums are frustrated and angry. The bug has apparently been reproduced and causes the video stream to freeze when a combination of factors are met. DirecTv has been offering users who complain a $79 credit -- but hasn't admitted the problem, let alone offered up a timetable for a fix. The problem only occurs with the DirecTv TiVo boxes -- not the standalone models."
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TiVo Bug Shuts Out Many Series 1 TiVo Owners? More

TiVo Bug Shuts Out Many Series 1 TiVo Owners?

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  • More Sales! (Score:5, Funny)

    by mfh ( 56 ) on Monday July 26, 2004 @04:34PM (#9806004) Homepage Journal
    > A bug in recently released DirecTv/Tivo software is allegedly causing major chaos with many Tivo users -- forcing many users over the past few days to upgrade their Series 1 Tivo boxes to newer, Series 2 models

    Now there's a bug they'll rush to fix! /bender
    • "DirecTv has been offering users who complain a $79 credit"

      You must've missed the part where they stated they'd offer a $79 refund to those who complain. This is the price of the Series 2.

      Now granted, I'm sure there will be plenty of people who don't call and complain and just upgrade, but that serves them right for not calling to complain over a faulty product.

      So the consumer is really getting a free upgrade with some minor hastles.

  • Huh (Score:5, Funny)

    by iamdrscience ( 541136 ) on Monday July 26, 2004 @04:36PM (#9806018) Homepage
    A bug that causes old users to pay to upgrade? Doesn't sound like a bug at all, sounds more like a business strategy.
    • A bug that causes old users to pay to upgrade? Doesn't sound like a bug at all, sounds more like a business strategy.

      Indeed, it's a "feature"!

    • Or perhaps the central computer the controls the TIVO network has decided that television is dangerous to humanity's safety, and thus, allowing TIVO users to watch television would violate the first law of robotics.
      • Preserving the safety of humanity would fall under the zeroth law; allowing a user to watch some programming probably falls under the first, though ... reality tv melts the brain.
    • "A bug that causes old users to pay to upgrade? Doesn't sound like a bug at all, sounds more like a business strategy."

      Well that took all the fun out of my stale Microsoft joke.
    • > A bug that causes old users to pay to upgrade?

      Geez, it was in the summary, and in the first visible post... The upgrade will basically be free, so no, it is not a business strategy (I do realize that was probably a joke...)
      • Yeah, but the lifetime subscription is not transfereable to another TiVo - it stays with the hardware. Buy different hardware, you need a new subscription, so they are getting another subscription out of the deal.

        You paid $79 for the TiVo hardware and $199 for the subscription. DirecTV programming broke your TiVo, so you buy another for $79. Now you need another subscription - another $199. Total price paid = $556 - less the $79 from Customer Support gives $477 total out-of-pocket. Price paid BEFORE DirecT
        • According to this [slashdot.org] post, I am wrong in the transferability of the lifetime subscription.

          (Still would like to know how they managed to mangle hardware through programming...)
          • > According to this post,

            Whew, glad you found that quickly... After reading your initial reply, I was about to get pretty upset about it -- I forgot about the required subscription (I don't watch enough TV to warrant paying for a TiVo, but still think it's a great invention). As for mangling the EQ, do they send out firmware updates over their net? That's the only thing I could think of.
        • You don't pay TiVo a subscription fee with a DirecTV-integrated TiVo; you pay DirecTV $4.99/month in addition to your regular programming charge. They don't offer a "lifetime service" option.

  • Not as big a deal as story suggests (Score:4, Interesting)

    by mabu ( 178417 ) * on Monday July 26, 2004 @04:37PM (#9806024)
    This appears to be an isolated issue that has only affected a small number of owners of much older Tivos (and in reality, ones that probably have a bunch of weird hacks). I'm sure Tivo is going to fix it, and the bug seems to be so obscure, it's probably wise of them to wait before even acknowledging it, especially when there's a chance the bug isn't related to a standard Tivo setup.

    If anything, this underlines the value of not plugging your Tivo in and having it automatically update itself. I've left my Tivo unplugged for more than six months and it continues to work fine. There's not often a need for software upgrades.

    It's also worth noting that a lot of the posters in the Tivo Community, when confronted with this "bug" used it as reasoning to run out and pick up the new Series 2 units for $79 -- you know you've got a great product with loyal users when, upon confronted with a bug, they purchase more of your products!
    • if you haven't plugged it in for 6 mths, how are you getting tv schedule updates? If I leave mine unplugged for more than 2 weeks I run out of data and it stops recording. I guess I could do it by time but then it is just a basic vcr.

      I have been travelling and my tivo is being borrowed. if I get hit w/ this bug though, i am going to ditch it and go mythtv.
      • f you haven't plugged it in for 6 mths, how are you getting tv schedule updates? If I leave mine unplugged for more than 2 weeks I run out of data and it stops recording. I guess I could do it by time but then it is just a basic vcr.

        The DirecTV Tivo gets program schedules via satellite. The only thing you need the phone line for is software updates and PPV stuff. If you don't use PPV, you probably never have to plug it in.

        Although, it's not a bad idea to do the updates. I finally let mine phone home a
        • The DirecTV Tivo gets program schedules via satellite. The only thing you need the phone line for is software updates and PPV stuff. If you don't use PPV, you probably never have to plug it in.

          You get bitch notices once a day at 14,21,then day 28-119 (I'm not sure what happens after that, I finally plugged it back in for a day). Used to be Tivo would cut you off after 32 days of no phone activity, but policy changed after DirecTV took over. In my case the phone cable stretches accross the floor, so I only

        • you get that irritating "Your Tivo has not made its daily call in 321 days. Please make a daily call soon"

          and I can't find a menu option for "delete all messages" so i have to delete those 1 by 1. it's annoying.

          I finally just got an actual phone line just to shut the damn thing up (can't get it working over vonage)
      • It's a DIRECTV Tivo. They, technically, never need to make any calls. The guide data comes from the dish as does a number of other things. Software updates and stats use the phone line, but really never have to happen :-)
      • The bug only happens on DirecTiVo units, and since there are no DirecTV tuner cards that would give you access to the raw digital video streaam, you can't make a MythTV equivalent.
    • This appears to be an isolated issue that has only affected a small number of owners of much older Tivos (and in reality, ones that probably have a bunch of weird hacks).

      For the record, the only hack my Sony T-60 has is a 120Gb drive in lieu of the original 40GB (I storage in case of disaster). I've been getting this weird bahavior occasionally too, just hadn't thought to check the forums because it hasn't hit me too much, beyond nearly sending me into tears when a got a big

      Your TiVo has experienced se

    • Re:Not as big a deal as story suggests (Score:5, Informative)

      by hawkbug ( 94280 ) <psx.fimble@com> on Monday July 26, 2004 @04:49PM (#9806127) Homepage
      Ok, in this case Sony SAT-T60 (and other DTV gen 1 tivos) needed this new upgrade to resolve guide issues about acuiring data, and some other closed captioning issues. I have the Sony SAT-T60, and I know a lot of other people who also have it, and are having this problem. You said:

      "This appears to be an isolated issue that has only affected a small number of owners of much older Tivos (and in reality, ones that probably have a bunch of weird hacks). I'm sure Tivo is going to fix it, and the bug seems to be so obscure, it's probably wise of them to wait before even acknowledging it, especially when there's a chance the bug isn't related to a standard Tivo setup."

      I guess if you call rain an isolated issue, you don't live in Seattle or any other place where it rains a lot. For the majority of people who own these boxes, this is an annoying issue that I hope they resolve quickly. And for the record, it has NOTHING to do with "weird hacks" as you put it. The problem 100% does exist with a standard Tivo set up, so don't minimize the effects of the problem for all of us who actually have to deal with it until Tivo fixes the issue.
      • I have a mostly-standard Tivo, and the bug occurs.

        Well, it is probably completely standard, but it is hard to be sure.

        Quick story - had a normal Tivo and all was well until one day it died and wouldn't boot. Everything seemed fine, but it would only make it 3/4ths through the boot cycle and then restart (infinte loop).

        So, I obtained a disk image for my model (a Sony SAT-T60), and reimaged the disk using various tools available online. Then after a complete reset and a couple of upgrades everything was

    • Re:Not as big a deal as story suggests (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I think it's a big deal.

      30+ pages on the TiVo foums. People replacing their TiVo boxes. DTV sending out refurbs.

      I recall one post suggesting it to /. as a story a while ago and it was rejected. Now they picked it up.

      I've had it happen to both my TiVo boxes a few times and they have never been modified or hacked. Not even 30 second skip software functions. The warranty sticker is still on them.

      One is a 3 year old Sony and the other is a 2 year old Philips. I'm not totally sure on the age. I was an early
    • It's not a small problem. There are lots of us with very workable, older Series 1 DirecTV Tivos. The Series 2 (which are almost identical) don't seem to be having the issue.

      It's a big deal. I have hardware that's been working effectively and reliably for me for close to 3 years. Now it's broken and just saying "it's not a big deal" because you THINK that there aren't a lot of people affected; well, that's just wrong. I have valid supported hardware, it's supposed to work, I pay $5 per month for the service
    • The only 'hack' we have enabled is the 30-second skip (which is more of an undocumented feature). We save our hacks for our X-Boxes, thank you...
    • So far, it sounds like TiVo/DirecTV were trying to do the right thing, upgrading the Series I software even though it is an obsolete model. Unfortunately, they got hit with one of those sporadic, difficult-to-reproduce/diagnose bugs. So while they are trying to figure out the problem, they are offering those people affected a hardware upgrade at what sounds very close to (or perhaps even below) cost.

  • Details on how to reproduce: (Score:5, Informative)

    by Otto ( 17870 ) on Monday July 26, 2004 @04:40PM (#9806052) Homepage Journal
    First, get the 3.1.0c software.

    Then Dan Collins posts this tidbit of info that might help somebody figure this one out:

    I spent some time this morning trying to force the problem to occur, and finally was successful. The ONLY scenario that reproduced the problem on one of my Hughes Series 1 was as follows:

    -A recording must be executing on at least one tuner
    -Signal quality must degrade to the point of causing severe digital artifacts WITHOUT a loss of signal lock
    -The poor signal quality must persist for at LEAST 15 seconds
    -The signal must then cut out completely on BOTH tuners
    -The recording must STILL be going on when signal is restored

    I was NOT able to reproduce the problem when any one of these factors were missing. For example, if the recording ended before signal was restored - no problem. Or, if I just pulled the coax out of the receiver jacks and then reconnected - no problem.

    The result was that, after meeting all of these conditions, on at least one of the tuners, after channel acquisition, the A/V would play normally for a second or three, then the video would freeze, while audio continues. Invoking the OSG, or pressing info would "unfreeze" the video for a second or two. This leads me to believe that it is NOT a problem with the state of the MPEG decoders, but rather a problem confined to the software itself.

    So, this seems to be a rather specific set of conditions that must come together to cause this problem.

    BTW: I reproduced the problem by installing variable resistors in the coax feeds and gradually increasing the resistance until signal lock was lost.

    • Damn! (Score:5, Funny)

      by wurp ( 51446 ) on Monday July 26, 2004 @04:46PM (#9806093) Homepage
      Somebody hire that guy!
    • This might explain some odd behavior I saw recently: I have a Series 1 DirecTivo, and have recently moved. The dish is on a freestanding tripod mount at the moment, until I can get some pieces I need to permanently mount it. As a result of it having to be where people walk by it, it's gotten misaligned a couple times. The other night I found that one of the tuners was recording audio, but not video. The signal quality was down in the upper 50s (normally it's in the 80's). I went out and tweaked it, and
    • This post wasn't nearly so exciting as the subject line led me to expect.
    • Interesting - something like this happened to me. Fortunately the biggest thing I lost before I spotted the problem was a re-run episode or two of Good Eats.

      I would play back a show, and get about two seconds of video, and then audio for the rest of the show. New recordings had the same problem.

      I rebooted the Tivo and all is well again - fortuantely. Hopefully they'll send out a patch before the odd occurance happens again...
    • Hmm, I had this happen last week - my DirecTIVO kept locking up (I wasn't recording anything) after a bad thunderstorm until I cycled the power (actually unplugged the unit...)

      This has never happened before - let's hope not again...

  • Since (Score:3)

    by OverlordQ ( 264228 ) * on Monday July 26, 2004 @04:40PM (#9806054) Journal
    hitting a php/*sql forum isn't a nice thing to do, I got a static [thedarkcitadel.com] copy of the linked to page.

  • tinfoil hat (Score:2, Interesting)

    by moojuece ( 661296 )
    not one to normally put much weight in crazy conspiracy theories, it does seem a bit odd to me that they have this new bug which forces an upgrade, and they are crediting users the cost of the upgrade....seems to me for some reason they want users to upgrade....what new 'features' does the series 2 have that they can give free upgrades?

  • Coincidence (Score:4, Interesting)

    by SteroidMan ( 782859 ) on Monday July 26, 2004 @04:42PM (#9806072)
    Is it a mere coincidence that this is the platform most favored by Tivo hackers for getting access to the unadulterated data stream from DirecTv. Perhaps, but I doubt it.

  • Consumers Win (Score:3, Interesting)

    by usefool ( 798755 ) on Monday July 26, 2004 @04:48PM (#9806114) Homepage
    At first glance, it did look like a force-upgrade stunt pulled by TIVO.

    However, if DirecTv has been offering users who complain a $79 credit , I can't see why consumers do not want to take this opportunity and upgrade to Series 2.

    • Lifetime service (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Otto ( 17870 ) on Monday July 26, 2004 @04:55PM (#9806173) Homepage Journal
      I got my parents a D-Tivo back when they were new. Got it directly from Tivo, in fact, before they actually hit shelves. Anyway, I also got the Lifetime Service for it.

      I'd lose that Lifetime Service if I upgraded them to a Series 2 unit. Not a good option, as I dislike extra monthly fees, especially if they have to pay them. It was a gift, I don't like giving gifts that cost money.

      Anyway, if my parents start experiencing the problem, I'll downgrade them to 3.1.0b, lock the software, and bypass the protections to disable the nag screen. Upgrading to a Series 2 is simply not an option, unless they can somehow keep the lifetime service on the new box.
      • I wonder if TiVo will allow a transfer of the lifetime service for people who upgrade.

      • Re:Lifetime service (Score:5, Informative)

        by Jonathan_S ( 25407 ) on Monday July 26, 2004 @05:11PM (#9806281)
        I'd lose that Lifetime Service if I upgraded them to a Series 2 unit.
        Actually you wouldn't. When DirecTV took over the DTiVo service from TiVo (the same time the monthly fee dropped to $4.95) they modified how the lifetime service works. You can't buy lifetime anymore, but for everyone who already purchased it that service switched from being tied to a specific receiver to being tied to the DirecTV account.

        So as long as you don't cancel your DirecTV account any DTiVos you have will have lifetime service (possible limit of 8 per account), even if you remove your original DTiVo from the account.
  • I'll be able to pick up a cheap directivo!
  • I have the DirectTV tivo box which is much more then %79 and Ive been having this problem. As far as I know there is not a directtv tivo series 2 box out yet
    • I have one, by Philips. It replaced my series 1 when the modem died (as they are prone to do on Series 1's)

    • Well, you need to look a little harder. All the new DTivos I've seen are series 2. The Hughes HDVR2, the Samsung SIRS4040, the RCA whatever are all series 2. I didn't check if the Phillips one is, but I'd assume so. I have the Hughes HDVR2 (not to be confused with the HR10-250 HD DVR), and it is most assuredly series 2.
  • They're paying for the bloody upgrade by giving you back what you paid for the new console. This is a GOOD thing, it means FREE UPGRADE. Why are people complaining about a free upgrade?
    • Would you like a free upgrade to Windows Media player version 9? I know I don't. For one simple reason....

      DRM.

    • Re:Who cares? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by will_die ( 586523 )
      The problem is not the cost of the box it is the cost of the subscription.
      So while you are given an $80 box for free you now need to pay $250 to get your life-term subscription.
      Also alot of people have upgraded thier boxes with more hard drive space which would have to be replaced.
      • RTFA.

        This is for DirectTV subscribers only. They do not have the option for lifetime subscription.
        • They did at one time have that option. For directv it's more tired to your account than the box if you call cust serv they will move the lifetime if you upgrade. Personaly I dont see the point you get free tivo service with the movie stations anyway.
        • Lots of DirecTiVo users have lifetime subscriptions. Me included. It even shows up as a $0.00 line item each month on my DirecTV bill.

          Maybe they don't offer that option any more, but given that this discussion is about older units, that's not relevant.

          • Yep-- lifetime tivo subs for direcTV series 1 tivos used to be available, but aren't anymore. So, if your series 1 gets hosed and you replace it, you will lose your lifetime service. (It no longer exists.)

            This would be a little different if they had stated what would happen in these circumstances-- if they will transfer the lifetime to the new unit, there's no issue at all.

    • Re:Who cares? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Jahf ( 21968 ) on Monday July 26, 2004 @05:26PM (#9806402) Journal
      Actually there are very good reasons to not want to do this. I happen to have one of the newer units, but folks who have a series 1:

      * May have dozens (or over a hundred if they upgraded their drive) of hours of programming on the unit.

      * Will have to spend at least a couple of hours adding their old season passes, preferences and such to the system and things like their "thumbs" ratings will be lost forever.

      * Could have installed / enabled hacks that are simply not feasible on the series 2 (and in the case of a few things like caller ID on some of the older units, are simply not possible on the newer units)

      * Will not see a significant performance boost from the new hardware ... series 2 units have more impressive specifications for RAM and CPU but in reality they don't do much to speed things up ... so there is no significant need to upgrade.

      All of the above combine for some very powerful reasons to not want to upgrade. DirecTV and TiVo could have architected things differently so that season passes and preferences were archived on the dial-up server, which would have alleviate #2 above, but otherwise there is not much that can be done to make this a painless process.

      It's not like buying a new TV or a new receiver ... in many ways it is more like having to replace a dead hard drive in your PC (or your PC itself but without a significant speed increase) and never having been -able- to back up your data.

      The only real advantages I see in going from a Series 1 to a Series 2 box:

      * You get a couple of USB ports that, unlike standalone TiVos, DirecTV purposefully does not enable (on standalones you can use them for USB networking, removing the need for a phone line to the system)

      * You will continue to get updates after DirecTV stops sending out system updates to Series 1 units ... but that is no big deal right now since DirecTV is FAR behind standalone TiVo software versions (as in version 4.0 + HMO, which is now standard and free on standalones, is not available for DirecTV users)

      * You get a system with more CPU (but less ways to use it due to a dearth of hacks for the Series 2 ... yes, I know, alot of the hacks can be done but overall most people find the Series 2 too much of a pain to hack).

      So needless to say, there is no burning need to upgrade to the Series 2. To the HD TiVo, yes, but that is MUCH more expensive.

      Is this a conspiracy to force people to upgrade as others have suggested? Hell no ... DirecTV is not getting anything from such a mess but bad press. But it's also not a benefit to the people affected to get the discounted/free new unit either.

  • seriously (Score:4, Funny)

    by brandannnnnn ( 797648 ) on Monday July 26, 2004 @04:57PM (#9806190) Homepage
    i want to read this thread but i don't have the time. i'll just tivo it.
  • How much longer 'til you can get a cheap PC & software solution that doesnt screw around and lets you do anything with the recordings? Once some relatively cheap (or free/oss) software comes out that will let you turn any cheap PC into a PVR, Tivo is gonna be screwed - big players will have to stick to the rules (broadcast flag, no sharing, and maybe abit of spying on what you watch) while all the cheapo/free solutions, (including your local store that will bundle some software) will get away with letti
  • It's a good thing upgrading is such a good deal! It was time for an upgrade anyway! How about that Lance Armstrong! We support the troops! Look up there!

    (runs away)

  • I called DirecTV yesterday about this issue..... (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I called into support Yesterday on this exact issue. The Tivo had been misbehaving and I ended up ordering a new unit to replace my stock series 1 DirecTivo. It had not been modded or anything.

    After reading this, I called DirecTV and told them about what I had "learned" that It was not just my unit but that their software had hosed my tivo. They are crediting my acount $99 + 14 (installation) so 113.00. So software bug = free new tivo. I guess once they patch the old one (which I keep) I will have to

  • That's happened on my series 2 (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I've had my semi-new series 2 TiVo freeze up too on rare occasions
    when starting to play a recording. I just rebooted and kept living my
    life with no thoughts of conspiracy.
  • Oddly, I have just started running in to a bug of my own since last night. Basically, whenever I play an episode of "Meet the Press", I get a large, black box on my screen which takes up the bulk of the lower half of my screen. It blocks not just video, but also all of TiVo's on-screen display. If I reboot, the problem goes away, and on at least one occassion it went away all on it's own.

    Has anyone else experienced this?
  • Called (800)DIRECTV, asked to speak to a CSR supervisor, was connected to a woman named Jill. She denied any knowledge of the issue and kept insisting that I call Sony. I did talk her into issuing a $79 credit (which is what we paid for a new unit Sunday since we didn't want to risk missing Six Feet Under). She claimed that they are getting NO calls regarding this issue and that there is no way DirecTV is responsible. I offered to point her to some websites where people have carefully documented the problem and what causes it, including what software version caused this, but she wasn't interested in any websites that weren't sponsored by DirecTV.

    So, everyone, please call and ask to speak to Jill the customer service supervisor to let them know this is happening to you too, since she is obviously unaware of the issue.

  • Weird (Score:2)

    by smartin ( 942 )
    This happend to me for a couple of months this winter. I figured my disk was going bad but it has completely corrected itself. I wonder if somehow i got an early release of the software and then got back reved.

  • I've had this box for 4 years and I can say without question that it has by far the best remote I've ever used. It's very comfortable in the hand, and I was using it by feel within hours of getting it.

    I hope my box continues to work, because that's one thing a Series 2 box will not have. I recently got a Toshiba DVDivo (for a different TV) and the remote eats by comparison.

    Slagheap

  • ROFL! (Score:2, Funny)

    by apoplectic ( 711437 )
    My significant other rocks!

    She just posted how to get the $79 dollars...this after I spend 30 minutes chewing on someone at DirecTV with no luck. Jerk told me "Since it has a hard drive in it, it breaks often...you should throw it away" and "You can't believe what you read on the Internet -- there was that town with the styrofoam, you know? That town?" (he had no idea what the story was about...though I did) and repeatedly "There are 13 million people with DirecTivos" (He didn't believe me when I told h
  • The real problem here is with the DirecTV product model. This is one of the only consumer devices available where the manufacturer can give and take away features long after you've purchased the product. I had a Mitsubishi DirecTV HDTV receiver box that one day lost the ability to set the sidebars on 4:3 content to black. I was livid! While I was well aware that updates would occur, I was horrified to find that they were perfectly willing to remove features not just add them. And worse, Mitsubishi blamed i
  • Just a shameless plug for Freevo, the free Linux PC media platform. [sourceforge.net]
  • The fix for this problem is simple.. Reboot your tivo. I've been having this problem whenever the weather gets bad (ie: it's about to storm). I turn off my tivo, unplug it. Plug it back in, start it up and it's fixed. I was considering calling DirecTV if it became a serious issue and I found myself doing it often. I've only gone through this process about three times and it only happens when the weather is exceptionally bad. Losing 2 days worth of programming is a problem, but the same thing happened last y
  • Well, DirecTV and TiVo have finally acknowledged [tivocommunity.com] the issue:

    DIRECTV and TiVo are aware of the issue. The short term solution is to unplug your unit for a few minutes and re-start. A software fix will be available to fix this issue as quickly as possible.

    I'm glad to hear it. I hope this update takes weeks instead of months this time. (I wonder if this statement was prompted by this Slashdot story?)

    By the way, it's DirecTV that should get the blame for the poor handling of this issue, not TiVo. DirecTV is

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