Microsoft Creates Static With New Webcast Feature

An anonymous reader writes "Radio stations are upset because Microsoft is cloning their playlists -- creating sounds-alike internet radio stations without the commercials."

Static...

[Short Circuit]

So they've claimed its creation. Now they have the next couple of years to patent it.

Re:Static...

[sgant]

and a few years after that to patent all the notes and major and minor chords.

Then they'll "give back" E and D major as "see, we contribute back to the community" PR.

Re:Static...

[Raagshinnah]

then they'll "give back" E and D major

that's enough for most pop these days *grin*

They'll have to create a new chord...

[Samurai Cat!]

...and call it "U".

That way, they can give back "F", "U", and "D". :P

Re:Static...

[Gentlewhisper]

Nope, they have probably developed a way to make their webcasts sound like static to users unable to play their DRM format, and apply a patent for that!

That kid Billy...

[leonbrooks]

...just has to monopolise every game he plays! It's an obsession, I tell you - the boy needs to see a shrink!

Re:That kid Billy...

[Sj0]

Boo hoo. Look up Clear channel on Google and come back to me again bitching about monopolies.

Re:Static...

[flyneye]

"I'm surprised they would co-opt the brand names of every radio station in America without permission,'' said Bill Conway, program director and station manager for San Francisco's KOIT-FM.

(heres someone who's lived in a cave,never watched news media and probably used a macintosh all his short naiive life)

Re:Static...

[marcello_dl]

Radio stations are upset because Microsoft is cloning their playlists. That has nothing to do with using internet radio. This means LESS internet radio. Microsoft has the means to pay thousands of DJs to prepare playlists, mixtapes, whatever. That would be MORE internet radio.

Instead, using somebody elses playlist and advertising the service as a substitute for the original radio means that the original radio loses the option to broadcast over the internet as its difficult to compete with somebody who can

Radio Stations Playing the same stuff

[RDosage]

Maybe if all the radio stations across the US didn't sound exactly alike....

Re:Radio Stations Playing the same stuff

[SB5]

And play their commercials at the exact same time....

Maybe if you RTFA

[allism]

The problem isn't that Microsoft sounds like other radio stations, the problem is (to quote the article) "MSN Radio promotes these online channels as being "like'' a favorite local station, "but with fewer ads, no DJ chatter and less repetition.'" They're using the actual call letters from the stations.

Brand MSN, Just like Brand X, Only Less Stuff

[ackthpt]

They're using the actual call letters from the stations.

That strikes me as utterly walking into a law office and screaming, "Sue me!" .. but then, Microsoft has enough money to fight or even intimidate, but it seems completely pointless. It's hard to believe MSN could be so blatant, normally there's some craftyness to their attempts to lose money, but this... geez.

"It results in a more pleasant experience because you don't have the ads or the DJs,'' Rob Bennett, senior director for MSN Entertainment, s

Re:Brand MSN, Just like Brand X, Only Less Stuff

[EzInKy]

That strikes me as utterly walking into a law office and screaming, "Sue me!" .. but then, Microsoft has enough money to fight or even intimidate, but it seems completely pointless. It's hard to believe MSN could be so blatant, normally there's some craftyness to their attempts to lose money, but this... geez.

How is this any different than "ksuxless plays more music than ksuxmore" spots that radio stations themselves run? These "if you you like them you'll love us" type of ads are nothing new.

Re:Brand MSN, Just like Brand X, Only Less Stuff

[thogard]

That strikes me as utterly walking into a law office and screaming, "Sue me!"

If they want to get into the media game (and they do in a big way), its also a way to find out which independent stations are ripe to be bought out.

Re:Maybe if you RTFA

[RDosage]

Maybe I did RTFA.

Maybe if I finish my sentence, I'll confuse less people like you.

Maybe if all the radio stations across the US didn't sound exactly alike....
you would be able to switch stations in a major market and hear different playlists.

Maybe if all the radio stations across the US didn't sound exactly alike....
people would actually listen to the radio instead of complaining that it all sounds the same.

Maybe if all the radio stations across the US didn't sound exactly alike....
there wouldn't be the need for Microsoft to introduce a service like this.

Re:Maybe if you RTFA

[allism]

So what, exactly, does radio stations sounding alike have to do with Microsoft stealing brand recognition? Or for that matter, any of your late-added sentence fragments? It seems to me that it would work in the opposite direction, i.e. it wouldn't matter what station Microsoft used the playlist from - all they would have to advertise is 'here's an easy listening station', here's a smooth jazz station', and the listeners would understand that they are getting the general playlist from that type of station.

Re:Maybe if you RTFA

[Frizzle Fry]

They are "using" the call letters in the sense that they are mentioning them. They aren't claiming that they are the station. There is nothing wrong with mentioning the name of a competitor. For example, if you were making generic soda, you could say "Compare ours to Coca-Cola" on the packaging, as long as you didn't misrepresent your product as being Coca-Cola. Generic brands do this all the time.

Re:Maybe if you RTFA

[tiger99]

That may be true, but I am reliably informed that it is a serious criminal offence in Germany to make that kind of comparison to a competitor. I presume there is no way of blocking this in Germany, so I can forsee a criminal prosecution against the Vile Monopoly.

Re:Maybe if you RTFA

[Dun Malg]

That may be true, but I am reliably informed that it is a serious criminal offence in Germany to make that kind of comparison to a competitor. I presume there is no way of blocking this in Germany, so I can forsee a criminal prosecution against the Vile Monopoly.

Being that none of the radio stations are in Germany, you forsee criminal prosecution where there can be none. German courts have no more jurisdiction over this than they do over a seller of Nazi artifacts in Idaho.

Re:Maybe if you RTFA

[Erasmus Darwin]

"Ok, but nevertheless the US has jurisdiction over others, and can demand extradition of an Australian?"

Case 1: A US company, using US-based servers, is comparing itself to another US-based competitor, in violation of German advertising laws.

Case 2: An Australian in Australia ran a warez group whose active membership contained a number of Americans and which used a number of US servers for what it was doing.

It'd be naive not to recognize that there are several significant factors in the second case th

Re:Maybe if you RTFA

[antiMStroll]

One word: Lindows.

Re:Maybe if you RTFA

[AltaMannen]

But then why wouldn't the radio stations simply piggy-back on the MSN radio service and get rid of some work of selecting the next track? After all, it is music selected specifically for this radio station and they could just interrupt the stream occasionally for commecials.

Or the radio stations could add an EULA spoken every hour to remind people that 'it is a contract violation to create a radio station which plays the same songs while branding it as representative of the selection of this radio station,

Re:Radio Stations Playing the same stuff

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe if all the radio stations across the US didn't sound exactly alike....

Damn it all. There you people go again, complaining about the programming we broadcasting executives give you.

Do you have a freaking clue how hard our work is? Spend an hour... JUST ONE STUPID HOUR... with an artist. Do you have any idea how maintenance-intensive these people are? As if we need more artists!!! We've worked hard to narrow our list and after twenty years with the current crew, we think you all should be as happy as slugs in a pan of beer with quality choices like:

o Michael Jackson
o Madonna
o Ace of Base (yea, we don't like them either but some idiot at their label renewed their contract)
o John Tesh

Oh and don't miss the hot new release of the great 'green' artist, Dave Matthews Band, in their new album "Smells Like Greyhound Spirit" - a nickle from every album purchase goes to the environmental and/or legal defense fund of Dave's choice.

And please, quit listening to all that industrial european stuff. As if we need more forms of music. We all know the Elvis discovered it all and there is no more new music, so quietly go to a Best Buy near you and buy your favorite RIAA products there.

Re:Radio Stations Hiring Fucktards as DJ's

[YOU LIKEWISE FAIL IT]

Well, self-same DJ's are not shy of threatening to "bury" bands who are rude to them - see this very interesting transcript [outwiththenew.com] which touches on threats made by a bunch of syndicated radio commentator wankers and Australian punkers Frenzal Rhomb.

Also touches on some of the other issues being discussed here with 'taste consolidation'. A good read, in my opinion.

Who cares

[The Analog Kid]

Most radio today is crap and mostly commercials. There are very few stations not airing 80% commercials and 20% music.

I wish

[Zygote-IC-]

As easy as it is to fall back on the, "Radio sucks, too much commercials" line, and as much as I despise radio, most of the stations in my area play between 40-45 minutes of non-commercial crap.

It's just different crap. DJs with their stupid jokes, stupid callers with their stupid jokes, etc. etc. In fact, I'd rather listen to commercials than that junk.

We do have several stations that play 45 minutes of music without commercial interruption, unless of course you count the interruption to tell you that you're listening to 45 minutes of music without commercial interruption.

Even though, it's till not 80-20 by any stretch of the imagination...although those screaming car ads do seem to last hours.

Re:I wish

[The Analog Kid]

I said most radio stations not all, and if appears you've never listened to any NYC radio station.

Re:I wish

[Zygote-IC-]

Things that bad in the Big Apple? Are the commercials at least funny or somehow otherwise worth listening to?

Maybe the Apes were onto something dubbing it the "Forbidden Zone."

Re:I wish

[jadavis]

In San Diego there's 94.9 which plays music and commercials and nothing else. I think they play fewer commercials, but maybe it's just because their DJs tell us the name of the song and then shut up. I can appreciate the station not wasting their time and mine laughing about some stupid thing.

If I ever hear the "radio laugh" I switch again fast and don't come back soon. And I have a steering-wheel mounted tuner so don't think my hands will be too busy to change stations.

Re:I wish

[One Louder]

In San Diego there's 94.9 which plays music and commercials and nothing else.

I think you meant to say:

In San Diego there's 94.9 which plays Franz Ferdinand's "Take Me Out" and Yeah Yeah Yeah's "Maps" and nothing else.

Re:I wish

[jadavis]

Haha, true. They're just as guilty of repeats as any other station down here. What stations play more variety? I'm open to suggestion.

Re:Who cares

[dasmegabyte]

Eh, my local station (102.7 WEQX [weqx.com] out of Vermont) is very, very good, they play new music before the ClearChannel stations, old favorites the CC wouldn't dare play because they weren't big enough hits and local and regional music you can't hear elsewhere. They even have long commercial free blocks, like 5 to 11 pm -- though I suspect it's because they were having trouble selling ads and that scares the shit out of me.

It would be a shame to see such a great station (a lot of people I know say it's the only

Re:Who cares

[|/|/|||]

I can 1-up you on that one - check out KEXP [kexp.org], where the DJs play what they want (no playlist) and there are zero commercials. Not only is the live broadcast streamed over the web, but you can listen to archived shows, too.

They play almost every kind of music at various points throughout the week, and it's a pretty good mix - you're not going to hear the same pop garbage repeated over and over. If you appreciate the station, you can send them a donation, too, as they're 100% listener supported (thus the lac

Should there be

[BizidyDizidy]

any intellectualy property expectations of a playlist?

What's next? Accusing someone of copying the order of items on a store shelf?

Re:Should there be

[BollocksToThis]

I believe I can sum up the radio stations' entire complaint in one word:

"Waaah!"

Re:Should there be

[slashrogue]

No, I don't think there is bitching about that. However, if you RTFA, Microsoft is actually using the call letters of the radio stations along with the stations' slogans to promote their own stuff.

Re:Should there be

[PhilipPeake]

Radio call signs are issued by the FCC. they are NOT the property of the radio stations.

If they have an owner at all, its you and me (the taxpayers -- yes, both of us! :-)

The only thing you are not allowed to do with a radio station call sign is to use it on another radio station - it is required identification, not a marketing tool, and not "IP" of the radio station.

Re:Should there be

[FireBook]

Interesting issue there then. Is microsoft using it on another, internet based, radio station infringing this law. And if it is, is there any us govt organisation with the balls to stand up to one of "Junior's" buddies in BigBizz???

Re:Should there be

[nsayer]

Broadcast station call signs are trademarked as a matter of course. The callsign itself, it its sterile "This is K-O-I-T-F-M, San Francisco" sense is one thing, but "You're listening to KOIT (pronounced as one sylable this time), lite rock, less talk" is undoubtedly a trademark.

Re:Should there be

[startled]

Should there be any intellectualy property expectations of a playlist?

I'd say no, but if you click on over there [msn.com], there are some much more questionable elements to the page. In particular, they list the station's callsign and slogans in a way that someone could make a compelling argument is confusing to the average person (the average person being a dolt :) ).

Off to the left, you get this non-confusing bit:
"Like 96.5 FM"
But then separated into another column, it says this:
"96.5 KOIT LITE ROCK LESS TALK"

Now, it may not be a clear-cut case of trademark infringement, but I can guarantee that if Microsoft own these stations and someone else tried this, there'd be a cease-and-desist in the mail already.

Re:Should there be

[Hollins]

What's next? Accusing someone of copying the order of items on a store shelf?

Actually, the folks who own the Dewey Decimal system have done just that [wikipedia.org].

Re:Should there be

[joke-boy]

[ob. IANAL, and I've only read about the service] There are copyright concerns, but it sounds like MS is avoiding them. You can take a list of uncopyrightable things and have a copyright on that list. For instance, a map is nothing more than a list of streets, and while the streets are just uncopyrightable facts, your presentation of those facts is copyrightable. Likewise, I would think that while the individual songs are copyrighted by others, you can create a playlist which is then copyrightable.

If MS took a station's playlist and played it, exactly as the radio station did, then the radio station could probably sue MS for violating its "compilation copyright" - the general look and feel by which the radio station presented the music.

But MS apparently isn't doing that. They're apparently aggregating playlists in order to get a sense of a station's music genre, then using it to select from the songs it has the right to broadcast. The aggregation and selection process probably gets MS around the compilation copyright problem, especially if MS presents at least one song that is *not* on a station's playlist. So I'd guess that if they do what the article claims they do, then they're fine.

Diversity in radio

[Astaroth33]

I might consider listening if they would just play something *different*.. How many times per day can you listen to No Doubt covering "It's My Life" before you can't help but ram an icepick through your head?

Re:Diversity in radio

[mrchaotica]

How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Roll pop?

Re:Diversity in radio

[benchbri]

Have you ever worked in mass media? I interned at a radio station, and we didn't add any new music for a month over the summer, just because there was nothing *new* tearin' up the charts. When we did add something new, I had a request an hour for one song - from different people.

It's not the Programming or Music Managers that make radio the repetive drivel it is, it's the listeners. Start advocating and turning your friends onto some good music, fill out the damn ratings books (and nobody can listen to 180 hours of NPR a week, I've seen this.) and stop listening to "the best hits of the 80's and 90's" chanells with 500 songs in rotation, and you might end up with a good radio station due to market pressure.

I have.

[Bill, Shooter of Bul]

I also have interned at a radio station. I have a few friends in the buisness as well. Basically, in my opinion, it is the programming managers fault. No one at the stations that is incharge of programming has a passion for music, they are just trying to play things that they think people will want to listen to, instead of playing new music that they themselves have discovered and have a passion for. The ratings books don't help, as there isn't anything worthwile to listen to in the first place. I am turn

How can they tell?

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks to ClearChannel, it's next to impossible to differentiate between radio stations in the first place.

Could they...

[Ayaress]

Make a copy that has the DJ chatter, and strip out the music instead?

With all due respect to WIOG, they have shitty music. If it weren't for the fact that their DJ/intern chatter is hilarious (most of the time), I sure wouldn't listen.

That's weird...

[darth_MALL]

First I've ever heard of Microsoft ever copying Anything! [wikipedia.org]

Re:That's weird...

[_Sprocket_]

Ahhh. But what was DOS a copy of?

Licensing?

[slashrogue]

Given Microsoft's own stance on such things, I imagine they'll have no problem coughing up licensing fees to use the call letters and slogans of the 900+ radio stations they're copying.

This makes my brain hurt

[atlasheavy]

What's the order of who we hate more again? I can never remember if Clear Channel scores higher on the Evil Index than Microsoft... ;-)

Re:This makes my brain hurt

[14erCleaner]

I can never remember if Clear Channel scores higher on the Evil Index than Microsoft...

And where does the RIAA factor into this?

Re:This makes my brain hurt

[martinX]

I think it depends on who {Evil Corporation} is attacking with their IP patent/lawsuit/business model/pointy stick.

If they are attacking something not close to our hearts, then their action is scored as a 0, rather than a negative.

The results of their attack are also taken into account. If it gives us more stuff, preferably for little or no cost, then that's OK. So MS cloning Clear Channel playlists is OK because even though CC playlists suck, if someone does want that sort of music, this gives them anoth

Re:This makes my brain hurt

[carpe_noctem]

I think this would be a good ideal for a poll:

Who do we hate the most?
- RIAA
- MPAA
- Microsoft
- Republicans
- Democrats
- Cowboyneal ..or something to that effect, anyways..

I hope

[BCW2]

M$ is paying their royalty fees, we'd all sure hate for the RIAA to go after M$!

Snicker, snicker, giggle, guffaw, and the gut rumbling belly laugh.

solution: cage match

[bersl2]

"Many corporations enter, but only one leaves." That'll be the day...

I think you mean.....

[Lehk228]

Two Corp.'s enter, One Corp. Leaves!

No! Not our slogan!

[Srass]

Conway was surprised when he learned from a reporter that Microsoft was using his station's call letters and well-known slogan, "Lite Rock, Less Talk,'' to promote a mimicked version of KOIT.

What's this? They're misusing their four letters, and a slogan that any halfwit with a marketing degree signed in crayon could come up with? (And has, all across the country?) Oh, please stop, I'm gonna bust out cryin'.

Re:No! Not our slogan!

[Ayaress]

The slogan is one thing. There's a station here in Michigan that has, "Light rock, no talk," which is effectively the same thing. But the letters are a different matter. The four letter callsign is supposed to be unique for all television/radio broadcast stations, and is usually trademarked as a matter of course when starting the station. Add together three things: 1. They're using the station's (un-unique) slogan. 2. They're using the station's unique callsign. 3. They're playing the exact same tracks as that station. Things aren't nearly as funny.

Re:No! Not our slogan!

[jdhutchins]

Their letters and slogan are probably trademarked or whatever the appropriate thing is, at least if the people running the radio station know what they're doing. So it would be illegal for Microsoft to use the station's call letters and slogans to mimick the station.

Best Article Quote of the Day

[teamhasnoi]

"if you're trying to take away our listeners,'' the programming that makes a station's personality and connection to listeners can't be duplicated by a computer.

John Allers, you owe me a new keyboard. Mine is full of Dr. Pepper.

You might want to tell Clear Channel that. They've obviously not gotten the memo.

Yeah, well...

[Mateito]

Most radio stations (or chains/groups whatever you want to call ClearChannel and their ilk) employ a program director who's job it is to survey the listening tastes for the station's target demographic in the local market and create playlists that will ensure that the highest possible number of people will listen to their station without channel switching, thus ensuring that the maximum number of ears catch their advertisers promotions and maximizing their return on investment.

Of course, what this guy really does is receive oral sex from hot young record company... um... "representatives" and ensure that they don't need to pay royalties for ad jingles.

95% of commerical radio blows goats. Unfortunately, college radio is now so afraid of offending somebody and being sued, very few of the real ground breaking programs are permitted to exist.

Re:Yeah, well...

[Jardine]

95% of commerical radio blows goats. Unfortunately, college radio is now so afraid of offending somebody and being sued, very few of the real ground breaking programs are permitted to exist.

We actually have a good University station around here. CHRW 94.9

They have a huge variety of programs from jazz to foreign language talk to guys talking about having sex with fat girls to local bands and alternative music that isn't on other stations. It's also a station that will almost never be played in a workplace

We need to a resist a temptation to take sides

[ShatteredDream]

People love to act like the enemy of my enemy is my friend. What they often forget, is that your new "friend" may be equally as much your enemy as your declared enemy. Usually, it is best to just let your enemies kill each other with their own resources.

NO!

[interactive_civilian]

ShatteredDream insightfully said:

Usually, it is best to just let your enemies kill each other with their own resources.

I'm sorry, but I must disagree. Anyone remember in the Lord of the Rings (the books) when Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas meet Gandalf in Fangorn forest and they are talking about the betrayals of Saruman?

"It is a pity that our friends lie in between," said Gimli. "If no land divided Isengard and Mordor, then they could fight while we watched and waited."
"The victor would emerge stronger tha

Re:We need to a resist a temptation to take sides

[Hi_2k]

While that is true, in some cases there is an obvious "Right" and "Wrong" to the law and to the public eye (Not nessecarialy the same things). The Eolas patent on plugins was absurd and we had every reason to cheer Microsoft FOR THAT CASE, even if not overall.

Re:We need to a resist a temptation to take sides

[nsayer]

worked in WWII.

So how was that "cold war" thing that happened afterwords for you? Did it "work" too?

Re:We need to a resist a temptation to take sides

[ceswiedler]

And very much backfired, immediately thereafter, assuming you're talking about the Soviets.

MS, you dirty hoebag

[understyled]

Bill Conway, program director and station manager for San Francisco's KOIT-FM was surprised when he learned from a reporter that Microsoft was using his station's call letters and well-known slogan, "Lite Rock, Less Talk," to promote a mimicked version of KOIT.

it's one thing to play the same songs as the local stations and remove the idiotic DJ banter and brain-numbing commercials (a service i would consider paying for, if i actually listened to radio instead of CDs), but it's another to do it so blatantly that you even rip the fucking slogan.

Re:MS, you dirty hoebag

[NanoGator]

" but it's another to do it so blatantly that you even rip the fucking slogan."

I just can't muster up the energy to glare at MS over it. Sounds to me like Clearchannel finally has a competitor. Oh the horror.

call letters

[Kallahar]

Wow, that's a new low for Microsoft. Not only are they copying their playlists but they're also selling the streams on the local call letters *and* their taglines. Pretty low business move, even if it's not technically illegal. However if any of these stations have a trademarked slogan then they have grounds to sue MS.

Radio stations fight back with new slogan

[Gary Destruction]

More radio, less reboots

compilation copyright

[pruss]

If I were MS, I'd be worried about infringement of compilation copyright. Anthologies have an independent copyright claim by the editors in virtue of the arrangement, in addition to copyright claims in virtue of the items anthologized.

And why are the stations surprised?

[SpecBear]

Someone's making a sound-alike station? Well duh!. When so many stations sound the same and have such a narrow scope, they become very easy to copy.

There's an simple solution to this: don't limit your radio station to a freaking playlist!. If all your DJs do is provide inane chatter while they shuffle around stuff from the same list of 100 songs, how long do you expect to maintain any sort of competitive advantage?

Oh, that's right, with ClearChannel dominating the airwaves, they didn't need to compete. That's how the industry let itself slide into this playlist dominated model to begin with. So now Microsoft can come along and say "Hey, we're just like $YOUR_LOCAL_RADIO_STATION, except we suck less!"

Sigh. End Rant.

Cookie-cutter radio

[jhhl]

Nobody is making you listen to M$ radio... or any radio for that matter.
But if you'd like to leave the radio cookie cutters at home, may I suggest www.wfmu.org, which has been streaming RA and MP3 streams for years and now a Slashdot-friendly Vorbis stream as well. And if you don't like what's on now, you can listen to more than two years of archived programming as well.
I hope I didn't just /. the servers...
--- the webhamster at wfmu.org

Call Letters

[ARRRLovin]

I'm surprised MS can get away with "broadcasting" those radio stations' call letters. That might be an FCC violation as IIRC the call letters are registered with a license that the FCC issues each operating radio station.

Microsoft will stop this nonsense

[Anita Coney]

The case Microsoft is relying on is Playboy v. Terri Welles. Welles was a Playboy Playmate of the year. She put that information in the metatags of her website. Playboy sued saying that Welles' use of the terms Playboy and Playmate violated its trademarks.

The court ruled that the fact that Welles a Playboy Playmate of the year is, well, a specific fact. And because she was exactly what she claimed to be, there could be no confusion in the marketplace.

Microsoft's use of stations' call letters, however, will obviously lead to confusion. It would be like Pepsi putting it's "like Coke" right on its labels. Sure, Pepsi does takes "like coke." but the confusion in the marketplace would be too great. Basically, the fact is too generalized.

This will never go to trial though. Some higher up at Microsoft will come to his or her senses and put a stop to this nonsense.

Purchase Price

[nurb432]

Either they will come to their senses, or they will just buy clear-channel, and eliminate the problem...

Re:Microsoft will stop this nonsense

[transient]

Why, then, is it permissible for store brands to say on their labels, "Compare to <national brand>?"

No, what will happen is:

[Johnny Mnemonic]

This will never go to trial though. Some higher up at Microsoft will come to his or her senses and put a stop to this nonsense.

I agree it'll never go to trial. What'll happen, though, is that Clear Channel and friends will get scared and negotiate with Microsoft; for example, will do an exclusive distribution deal through Microsoft's version of the iTMs. Then, Microsoft wins; Clear Channel wins; the RIAA wins.

Oh yeah, Real and Apple lose.

Microsoft surely doesn't want to be in a position of being a

Just wait

[WindBourne]

MS will be doing their own video studio soon to compete against Hollywood.

why is this a problem?

[fermion]

This is interesting on so many levels. First, cookie cutter radio stations did the same thing when they depreciated the value of local content by creating chains run controlled by national entities. In the process they destroyed many good local stations. MS is just taking this one step further by depreciating the need for expensive dedicated support staff whose main purpose is to recieve kickbacks from major labels in exchange for airplay. What would be interesting is if the playlist could be customized

Embrace and extend

[HermanZA]

Old MS policy. Copy stuff that works and put them out of business...

I find this somwwhat ironic

[brunes69]

Given the recent trademark lawsuit of Microsoft vs. Lindows for sounding too much like Windows, I find it ironic that mere months later Microsoft would start selling radio stations that *even explicitly say* "Sounds like KMEL JAMS 106.1".

Microsoft: you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Maybe someone register a station called KMSN...

[mikael]

... it would be interesting to see if Microsoft feels if that were a violation of their trademark.

Re:Maybe someone register a station called KMSN...

[Stevyn]

...like Lindows.

ms copied from others? say it aint so

[wardk]

microsoft copies shit. that's what they do.

but stealing playlists? what's so fucking criminal about taking the "top 20" and shuffling them ad nauseum? (well, yes it is criminal to be forced to listen to that playlist). of course all 1000000 clearchannel stations all use the same shitty playlist, are they all stealing from each other?

it's all so scary, so much shit music, so few playlists.

Competition is good.

[jamesl]

It results in a more pleasant experience because you don't have the ads or the DJs,'' Rob Bennett, senior director for MSN Entertainment, said during a press briefing last week.

If people like DJs and screaming ads, they'll listen to the radio. If not, they'll listen to Microsoft. If local stations would throw away the play lists and develop a personality, they'd have nothing to worry about.

"Compare to the ingredients in ..."

[Animats]

There are many house brands of common over-the-counter drugs that are packaged somewhat similarly and bear text like "compare to the ingredients of (brand name product)". That's just fine.

Of course, the question is why anyone would want a pay service that uses the playlists of mainstream stations.

I made the comment a few years back that broadcast radio is an enormous waste of bandwidth, because the content is so repetitive. It's far more efficient to download the content once and cache it locally. Then all the station has to broadcast is a playlist, using tiny bandwidth.

At the time, that was a joke. Now it's a viable business model.

This is hilarious

[Edmund Blackadder]

If you have ever listened to a popular radio station in the US you would know that theyr playlists consist of about a dozen songs that repeat over and over again.

Leave it to MS to copy the most annoying feature of radio.

I am confused here...

[imsirovic5]

Somebody help me out, I am confused? Who should I hate in this article? Microsoft of Radio stations and their RIAA connections? Who is the good guy? I am all confused, I think I am going to have a seisure?

BSOD

[GordoSlasher]

Does anyone know what the Blue Screen of Death sounds like?

If radio didn't SUCK so bad, I'd almost care.

[Ralph Spoilsport]

So: the cryptofascist drones at ClearChannel have their panties in a twist because micro$oft figured out that pumping an unimaginitive list of Great Hits By PreFab Pop Stars over the web is a way to get the attention of the average American (who, by and large, has precious little in the way of cultural sophistication and intelligence).

And they're snagging the call letters of their carbon copy crapola stations?

As one poster noted, it's hard to know who to hate...

But the facts are simple: if radio stations had REAL DJs that were allowed to play whatever the fuck they wanted to, and then hired DJs on the basis of the depth and breadth of their musical selections and the cleverness of their song choices, there is No Way M$ could copy that, as each DJ would be regionally dependent on local taste. Example: the DJs of San Francisco might not fair very well in Oklahoma City. But it would all be by Sensibility, which is the most crucial marker of aesthetic choice.

But Bog Forbid anyone figure THAT one out... the closestthing you can do is get a live365 station but that's expensive and a bit of a rip off...

RS

Re:If radio didn't SUCK so bad, I'd almost care.

[mabhatter654]

But they could still copy the playlists a day later because radio stations are required to send them in electronically to a private company mandated by the FCC for royalty purposes. MS is just buying a feed from that private company! The playlist [without DJ commentary] is just public info you could get by a normal person listening...

Legally they are in the clear....but if the anti-trust people are watching it's time to nail um to the wall!

Grudgematch

[dancingmad]

The radio stations vs. MS - who does /. hate more? Head will explode as geeks, nerds, and other basement people decide among two (count'em, two!) evils!

More power for the record labels...

[BlewScreen]

The record labels spend tons of money trying to get popular stations to play their songs. In college, I was the music director of our university's station in Boston. We had TEN watts. Yet, we got servicing from every major record label, just about every indie label and were bombarded by calls and promortions from the independently hired promotions companies (paid by the majors).

All this because we were in one of the top five markets in the country. One spin on our station reached more ears than one on a 50,000 watt college station in the middle of east bumfuck. So we got more attention than them.

The fact that a label only has to convince a single station somewhere to play their song in order to get it on Microsoft's copied playlist must be making them salivate as much as Pavlov's dog at a firehouse.

Maybe there'll be a fight between ClearChannel and MS, but the RIAA must be loving this... And they'll side with MS...

-bs

Re:iTunes

[thephotoman]

No, not the last time I checked. However, you can use internet radio over iTunes.

Re:this only goes to show....

[NanoGator]

"Funny how the Justice Department doesn't have the balls to tell MS NO."

If MS habitually made a monopoly out of every product it sells, I might be inclined to agree.