Macs Do Star Wars Dirty Work 219
bfl writes "The BBC is running a story about Lowry Digital Images and how they used 600 dual G5s and 400 TB of storage space to clean the dirt off of the old Star Wars reels, and upgrade the resolution to get them ready for their DVD release."
CmdrTaco Does Slashdot Dupe Work (Score:3, Informative)
Re:CmdrTaco Does Slashdot Dupe Work (Score:5, Funny)
Re:CmdrTaco Does Slashdot Dupe Work (Score:5, Funny)
Re:CmdrTaco Does Slashdot Dupe Work (Score:2)
Of course not...Hence the informative moderation...
Re:CmdrTaco Does Slashdot Dupe Work (Score:3, Funny)
fine, fine (Score:2)
Re:Bloody Godamn Propaganda!! (Score:3, Insightful)
A dust spec is on one frame. Therefore it's not on frames before nor after. Therefore, some mpeggish variation should detect a massive change, and erase it, filling in the middle chunk mpeggishly.
At 70 MB a frame, we're well beyond your typical "mpeggish" resolutions. I'm not even sure why you bring up MPEG any way, as they're working uncompressed. Doing any sort of cleaning on MPEG files would be. . . just. . .
Hardly computationally int
Movie dirt (Score:5, Informative)
Shot noise in optical systems (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Shot noise in optical systems (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Shot noise in optical systems (Score:5, Informative)
Well, it's all explained in the article. And you've got half the answer yourself. But I'll try to explain further...
(Yes I realize that film is not a pure analog format; the resolution being limited by the grain size of the emulsion - but at the same time, it's not what we consider digital.)
Film grain itself is a noise component. Film grains are nothing more than crystals sensitive to a particular light wavelength. In commonly used 35mm film stocks, there are three layers of emulsion - one red, one green, one blue. Think of the grains as "pixels", although they're somewhat randomly distributed, they're not all of a uniform size, and they're not all uniformly sensitive to light. The end result is that the minute differences between adjacent grains makes them easily discernible on a theatrical-size screen, and somewhat visible on a large TV set. They appear as noise.
Optical effects also involve compositing several layers of film on top of each other. According to the article, the light saber scenes were the worst. I'd imagine at that time, shooting a light saber duel probably involved three layers of film; the master shot and one optical shot for each light saber. Obviously this triples your noise and also softens the image. It can also introduce color casts because the light is being altered through each layer of film.
As films age, chemical reactions also cause color shifts in the grains. This can lead to even more noise.
Films also get just plain dirty over time. The Star Wars negatives have been handled a lot, so they're probably dirtier than most. 35mm not being very big, when you blow it up onto a theater screen or even a TV set, a small layer of dust or tiny particles of dirt will add a lot of crud to the image.
The software they used to clean up these films apparently works by comparing each frame of film to the frame before and the frame after, to see what's picture information and what's noise (random noise will be easy for a computer to pick out, because it will not match at all from one frame to the next). It should have no problem removing both film grain and dirt, as well as other types of noise.
I'd imagine they must have manually isolated each individual edit in the film to reduce errors, but this wouldn't have been that big a deal in the grand scheme of things. There's probably only maybe a couple thousand cuts per film (assuming a high average of 5-10 cuts per minute), so it wouldn't take more than a couple days for one person to do this.
Re:Movie dirt (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Movie dirt (Score:4, Funny)
Totally clears Han as being a bad guy.
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Re:This story has been around a while.. (Score:3, Funny)
Wow, what amazing technology!
Thats like, how many dvds now ? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Thats like, how many dvds now ? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Thats like, how many dvds now ? (Score:5, Insightful)
Most films shot now are digitized, or shot digitally in the first place.
Re:Thats like, how many dvds now ? (Score:4, Insightful)
A bulk of this cost is the initial hardware outlay and creating software to do the work. Once these 600 Macs are done with SW IV-VI, it should be fairly easy and cost effective to crank plenty of other old movies through.
Re:Thats like, how many dvds now ? (Score:2, Interesting)
Hmmm.
hah (Score:2, Funny)
Greedo shoots's first, greedo shoots simultaneously, deleted scene jabba 1, deleted scene jabba 2, greedo first + jabba 2, greedo first + jabba 1, jar-jar on tattoine, jar-jar + greedo 1 + jabba 2, boba fett vocie 1 + jar-jar 2 + pink lightsabre + jabba 2, ad infinitum.
Re:hah (Score:2)
Re:Thats like, how many dvds now ? (Score:5, Interesting)
Most films shot now are digitized, or shot digitally in the first place.
Most films are not shot digitally, very very few films are shot digitally. Most films are still shot on film.
I wouldn't say older films are forgotten, not at all. Almost all of the studios (the big ones at least) started sending the old, original reels to the massive underground storage facility that I believe is run by Iron Mountain. Here they are kept in controlled temps and dust free.
Re:Thats like, how many dvds now ? (Score:2)
True, but as Lucas has demonstrated, you can take the same 3 films and rerelease them as many times as you want. So really, the cash cow will never run out.
Re:Thats like, how many dvds now ? (Score:2)
That's your first mistaken assumption. Haven't you learned anything from Tupac? Old tapes never die... they just keep getting "remastered".
Re:Thats like, how many dvds now ? (Score:2)
Most film is shot on film, then scanned, edited, and output back onto film. The reason is that it is very hard to shift a lot of data off the sensor in real time. The best digital cameras can move 4MP at 8FPS, that's not enough for movie making, either in speed or resolution.
Some films are shot entirely digitally, like Collateral, and it's *obvious* in the poor quality of the low-light scenes. There's a long way to go before the qual
Re:Thats like, how many dvds now ? (Score:2)
180,000 frames (Score:4, Interesting)
they have 180 000 frames
1 frame = 70 MB
use your calc folks
Re:180,000 frames (Score:2)
Re:180,000 frames (Score:2)
Re:180,000 frames (Score:4, Funny)
Re:180,000 frames (Score:4, Funny)
Why do we still use 'big' characters, like 1's and 0s? Why not use a . and a , for example. These would take up a lot less space than 0's and 1's would.
Illustration: 10 1's:
1111111111
10
You can probably get about 5
Re:180,000 frames (Score:5, Informative)
Well, and that is not what's usually the biggest size. I participated in a project in which we cleaned up a pretty much damaged color movie from the 1950s. It was about 130000 frames, each frame was scanned into ~2K files (w/ 3 channels, 10 bit log density / channel - this res was enough for this movie, but usually higher scanning res is required). If you add that up, multiply it by a few times for storage of during-the-work duplicates for checking, quick back stepping, etc. and you end up with lotsa-lotsa hard drives.
Then calc up how much space you would need to process all that stuff on e.g. 4 or 6K res.
Re:180,000 frames (Score:2, Informative)
Re:180,000 frames (Score:2, Informative)
Re:180,000 frames (Score:2)
It's not like they have to clean the audio. Besides, size of audio data is usually much smaller than size of video data.
The MACS did it! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:The MACS did it! (Score:5, Funny)
Lucas, you maniac! When will this abuse of innocent computers end?!
Overheard at the render farm.... (Score:5, Funny)
Node 25685: "I once had to render a goat hobbit monkey sex video...I was depressed for a year!"
Node 65423: "I had to do pitch correction on three hours of Britney Spears audio! I still find myself waking up and crying like a baby..."
Node 27928: "Once, I had to work on a Lucas proje..."
All of the other nodes: "Say no more! You poor bastard!"
Unidentified node : "You whore!"
Re:The MACS did it! (Score:2, Funny)
I see a new Linux commercial!
Don't forget the "Jedi Clause." (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Don't forget the "Jedi Clause." (Score:4, Interesting)
So obviously that contract didn't prevent them from announcing their use of GNU/Linux on x86 workstations.
Some related articles:
http://www.linuxjournal.com/modules.ph
http://ww
http://preview.millimeter.com/mag
For those who don't believe in Jedi Clause... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Don't forget the "Jedi Clause." (Score:2)
Re:Don't forget the "Jedi Clause." (Score:5, Informative)
Re:If Macs worked so well at the time... (Score:2)
Your statement is like suggesting to use a toaster to grill a steak. It's not the best tool for the job, but just because it's not the best tool for that particular job doesn't mean it's really helpful when you want to make a meal.
Re:If Macs worked so well at the time... (Score:2)
My toaster makes great steaks!
I mesread that (Score:2)
Re:If Macs worked so well at the time... (Score:2)
Overheard at a Lucas meeting (Score:5, Funny)
"What's that?"
"These G5s are pretty cool...we should make a beowulf cluster of them!"
"Well, we're obscenely rich, so..."
"Yipee!"
I wonder if they used Film Gimp/Cinepaint (Score:2, Informative)
ILM contribute code as a plug-in (OpenEXR). It would be interesting to know if Lowry Digital Images used Film Gimp/Cinepaint including the ILM developed OpenEXR plug-in in cleaning Star Wars.
Explains generation gap? (Score:3, Insightful)
Or... "Gee it was more fun the first time when I was 10!" Well, that's because it actually was a better-looking film.
Re:Star Wars generation gap? Sound Effects- (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Star Wars generation gap? Sound Effects- (Score:4, Interesting)
Now, yes it's much more interesting to hear the explosion as it happens, even though in real life you'd certainly have to deal with the shock-wave carried sound or (assuming space in this far-off galaxy is full of air) a huge delay between the time you see the explosion and the time it takes for the sound of that explosion to reach you.
The physics of movies has, i fear, spoiled the expectations of all future space travelers. Sound in outer space? Blasters? Deflector shields? And my biggest peeve: 2-D shock waves (a la praxis)? That's some FUNKY distribution of mass there.
Re:Explains generation gap? (Score:2)
Macintosh = The Industries Retarded Son (Score:5, Interesting)
It seems like any time the Mac platform does something that is remotely interesting people rejoice and it is plastered everywhere. Would this story be on the front page if PCs were used? I doubt it, even if they were running Linux.
It's just like this weird thing where anything, even commonplace events get blown out of porportion just because Macs were used, as if the entire platform blows and it's amazing anything gets done, which is not the case. Maybe it is just the Mac user hubris as pictured above, but it comes across as this weird feeling I mentioned earlier. Touting that the macs 'can do!' things PCs do all the time makes them seem inferior and retarded, like they need the positive reinforcement.
Re:Macintosh = The Industries Retarded Son (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Macintosh = The Industries Retarded Son (Score:2)
First, I think the same thing does happen with Linux. -and in either case, I don't think it's merely "Yea! We did something that you can do on Windows!" It's a little more like, "To all those people who say our system of choice is somehow inferior, here's some evidence to the
Re:Macintosh = The Industries Retarded Son (Score:4, Funny)
You must be new here.
Re:Macintosh = The Industries Retarded Son (Score:2)
Sorry, you are wrong. Linux got the front page several times when Digital Domain used it to render Titanic and several other movies. Granted, it did use Alphas, but IIRC, several PC/Linux based projects were given front page treatment here.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Macintosh = The Industries Retarded Son (Score:3, Insightful)
By the way, I am a vector programmer.
Re:Macintosh = The Industries Retarded Son (Score:5, Informative)
A computer is a tool. A mac just happens to be a good video tool because it was built that way. Calling someone illiterate because they chose a good tool for the job is just assinine.
A really good vector unit, vectorizing compiler, vector libraries, and a host of system and application software make the Mac platform well suited for the task described in this article. Why people feel so threatened by this fact is beyond me. Linux is great at the things it was built to excel at, Windows (gasp!) does some things very well, too. BIG FUCKING DEAL.
If you were a true computing enthusiast you would have one of each. I do.
Re:Macintosh = The Industries Retarded Son (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Macintosh = The Industries Retarded Son (Score:2)
Are you offering to donate one to my collection?
If you haven't seen the LD-SE-DVD comparisons (Score:4, Informative)
Re:If you haven't seen the LD-SE-DVD comparisons (Score:2)
You can't add detail using filters. You might be a able to approximate what data might have been under a blotch but it is still a guess. Even sharpness filters generally takeaway detail, look up edge enhancement - which is basically a sharpness filter that makes an image appear sharper when it actually takes away real detail.
List of Movies restored by Lowry Digital (Score:5, Interesting)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/listmania/
I've picked up THX1138, Once upon a time in the west, North by Northwest, The Ghoul and of course Star Wars.
The results are INCREDIBLE. Except for some obvious dubbing with sound, Once upon a time in the west looks like it was filmed yesterday. So does THX1138!
I've tried finding the Lowry Digital Web site. But INCREDIBLY it seems like they don't have one! Seems strange. You would think they would have a web site telling people the films they have done so people might go out and buy them.
If somebody knows it....PLEASE post it!
Is this *really* such a good thing? (Score:2)
Clifton Suspension bridge in Bristol UK in *titanium* just so it lasted forever).
Somehow, you've *lost* the original both in spirit and implementation. Somehow, you've *lost* the historical context...
I could go on. But I won't bore you (have already he says chuckling).
Even though Movies are in some sense "tho
Re:Is this *really* such a good thing? (Score:3, Informative)
THX1138 is the only one of the movies Lowry has done that's been "enhanced"...that's Lucas's Job. All the rest are as close to what they were when first released in the the
Re:Is this *really* such a good thing? (Score:2)
Paintings are renovated all the time, statues and buildings are too and noone (not even the die-hard purist art historians) seem to object when the work is done well.
I think the example
Re:Is this *really* such a good thing? (Score:2)
Re:List of Movies restored by Lowry Digital (Score:5, Informative)
Re:List of Movies restored by Lowry Digital (Score:2)
Tell your friend to mention to them that they have fans that would love to know the work they've done and what they are doing (if the studios let them tell).
Re:List of Movies restored by Lowry Digital (Score:2)
Why Star Wars? (Score:2, Funny)
Or better- get working now on those funny Porky's movies. Or Manos, that's another gem that needs improvement.
Clean the dirt off? (Score:4, Funny)
Detail increase @ home (Score:3, Funny)
Also, imagine if you will what you could learn by running this on the footage of the JFK assassination? Or all those UFO sightings? This could be the conspiracy buff's dream. =)
600 G5s and the lightsabers were broken. (Score:4, Insightful)
Light sabers were a trivial distraction from (Score:2)
Re:600 G5s and the lightsabers were broken. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:600 G5s and the lightsabers were broken. (Score:2)
Re-release of release about re-release (Score:3, Funny)
Can't you realize that redoing the same posts over and over again is easily recognized by frequent readers of this news repository. Comments often respect that the editors are only human, but such a repeat of a mistake makes most redears reluctantly repeat the same jokes that they made the last time this was reposted.
My apologies....really!
When money is no object.. (Score:2)
While most of us are stuck with lesser quality 'white box PC clones'...
Actually, MTI (running on Windows) is dominant (Score:5, Informative)
These MTI workstations might have highest software/hardware cost ratio of any widely deployed system. The hardware costs are a couple of thousand dollars, and the software is well over $50,000 per system. But, they get the job done like nothing else, and it is my experience that studios demand that particular software for their restoration.
It's not a completely automatic process by any means. The software can do a lot on its own, but it does require an artist to painstakingly review and correct the things that the software misses, or to guide the software to a correct solution.
A friend of mine who is building a large restoration facility would love to have a Linux solution, but unfortunately none exists at this point.
Thad Beier
Not just the graphics explaining the gap! (Score:5, Insightful)
The original versions of the films also didn't have the new editing, new scenes, new shots, all of which greatly diminished the pacing and believability of the film.
There's a reason they give Oscars out for editing. --It really doesn't take much to ruin an otherwise good work. A single nail standing up on a water slide can make the whole ride a lot less enjoyable. And the re-release versions of Star Wars had a whole hardware store's worth of junk added!
Every three minutes while watching that thing, I felt, at best that I was having to deliberately overlook stupidity, (like those new digital droids floating around Mos Eisley which it was clear from the actors' body language, were not really there and thus created a discordant effect), to my feeling like I was being stabbed when Luke Screamed while falling down the throat of Cloud City.
So yeah, if I was a kid today watching those lousy re-release versions of Star Wars, I'd also think my elders were doddery and out-dated for raving about them; that they needed a patronizing pat on the head and a, "There, there, old timer; I'm sure they seemed like nice films in your day."
The wide-screen, color and sound restored, but otherwise un-adultered LD copies from the mid nineties are the best versions available of the original trilogy. --There are yet to be any pirate copies of those ripped to DVD floating around, but there damned-well ought to be!
Some of you out there have the capability to create these. DO IT. Star Wars is a vital part of our culture, and what Lucas is doing to erase it is as insidious as any 'terrorism'. --If Phantom Menace hadn't sucked, there is a good chance we could have avoided being in Iraq today.
-FL
Re:Not just the graphics explaining the gap! (Score:2, Informative)
Also, if you look on IMDB, there were actually a few minor changes already in the early-80s re-release of ANH. They were for the better, like the "close the blast door! open the blast door!" in the chase on the Death Star.
Different sound mixes (Score:2)
The only change made to ANH in the 80s was to add the "Episode IV" text to the opening crawl (references here [starwars.com] and here [starwars.com]). The rest of the movie was untouched until 1997.
Too cool for this. . . (Score:3, Interesting)
But at +5 Insightful, it seems you're not alone. The people here scare me sometimes.
And thank-you for being the smart-alec who sits in the back row and prevents good patterns from evolving through the constant application of smarmy remarks. --Hiding your painful level of low self-esteem by trying to transfer your feelings of self-consciousness to others.
Go get not-laid somewhere else.
-FL
Seriously. . . (Score:3, Insightful)
Here's what I mean. .
There are very few instances in our culture when nearly everybody is focusing on a single event with such openness and enthusiasm as when Phantom Menace was nearing release.
During a time like that, it is possible, (it has happened before), to put across messages which everybody will hear at the same time, and react to by possibly adjusting their behavior at
How many Macs does it... (Score:4, Funny)
Strange... (Score:2)
Do they mean "we sharpened the image" or what?
Color Quality in Star Wars DVDs (Score:4, Interesting)
If not for the wonky color, I might be able to stomach the Lucas changes; as it is, I much prefer watching my bootleg DVDs based on the pre-special edition Laser Disks, which are basically perfect except for slightly lower sharpness than it could be.
Elegant Design (Score:2)
Re:dupe (Score:2, Flamebait)
Re:dupe (Score:2)
Re:dupe (Score:2)
If you use Firefox, Thunderbird, and Mozilla, you can see how the same exact bugs are oftne present in all three. Firefox is just Mozilla rendering with a different 'shell', Thunderbird is just Mozilla mail with a similarly-stripped 'shell'.
Re:Indiana Jones (Score:2)
I'm sure they left the film lying in the gutter. (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:This is news? (Score:2)