Kerry Concedes Election To Bush 5687
WilliamGeorge points to this MSNBC story "that presidential candidate John Kerry has called George W Bush to concede the election. So it is over, and without a lot of extra fuss and recounts."
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Kerry Concedes Election To Bush
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We all live in a state of ambitious poverty. -- Decimus Junius Juvenalis
Now, let's all have a big Slashdot group hug (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Now, let's all have a big Slashdot group hug (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Now, let's all have a big Slashdot group hug (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Now, let's all have a big Slashdot group hug (Score:5, Funny)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Now, let's all have a big Slashdot group hug (Score:5, Insightful)
Bush may have won a clear majority, but this election is still close, and there is still a large portion of the population that despises him. I'm sure Bush will interpret his victory as a mandate and do what he wants (not like his lack of a mandate was stopping him before), but this country needs some serious help closing the divide, and I don't see how Bush is going to address that.
Re:Now, let's all have a big Slashdot group hug (Score:5, Interesting)
I think it was George Washington who expressed his fear that the country should be divided not only along party lines, but also along geographical lines.
Re:Now, let's all have a big Slashdot group hug (Score:5, Insightful)
Saying Bush won with more votes in history is downright misleading(sp?). He won with more votes in history in an election with MORE VOTES CAST than any election in recent memory. Show me he got a higher PERCENTAGE than anybody else and I'll be impressed.
Re:Now, let's all have a big Slashdot group hug (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Now, let's all have a big Slashdot group hug (Score:5, Insightful)
Not that it matters this time around. The parent to your post is correct: By every measure, Bush won, so there is no case made by this particular election that there's something which needs fixing.
Re:Now, let's all have a big Slashdot group hug (Score:5, Interesting)
So I guess that means that Kerry got the second most votes than any American in history.
-m
Re:Now, let's all have a big Slashdot group hug (Score:5, Insightful)
CNN.com is still showing Ohio as "to close to call", so Kerry either knows something is going to push Ohio towards Bush, or he's a really dumb sonofabitch for conceding before the final tally.
Which reminds me - if Kerry wins Ohio, and therefore the Presidency, does his concession still stand?? Or does Bush have to suck it up and start packing up his stuff??
Re:Now, let's all have a big Slashdot group hug (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Now, let's all have a big Slashdot group hug (Score:5, Insightful)
And how is that any different than the situation right now? Instead of the 10 most populous states, they run around to the 5 or 6 'swing' states.
>The electoral college assures that each candidate will visit every state, not just the ones needed to win.
But they don't. At all.
> If we did it by popular vote, a Democrat would win nearly every time because CA, NY, and a couple of other states have the most population.
Umm, Bush *did* also win the popular vote this time, you know.
>Fair would actually be like the Senate. Each state gets (1) electoral vote.
So someone in Alaska's vote matters more than someone's in New York? If a state only has 1 million people, their vote is more valuable than a state that has 10 million.
1 person, 1 vote is the only fair system.
Re:Now, let's all have a big Slashdot group hug (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem with doing this is that as the house gets more representatives it becomes harder to get things accomplished. That's why Congress capped the number of seats.
I would propose that the real solution is to reduce what the federal government does. If the individual states started doing Social Security, Welfare, Education, etc. and the national government mostly did foreign and monetary policy, I think there would be a lot less need for having "better" representation.
Re:Now, let's all have a big Slashdot group hug (Score:5, Funny)
Damn right. I had twenty quid riding on the outcome of the election. I said that Americans weren't so brain-dead and masochistic as to vote themselves another four years of Bush. My friend said they were.
I'm going to give up making bets whilst being stoned.
Re:Now, let's all have a big Slashdot group hug (Score:5, Insightful)
It's strange, but too many Americans no longer understand the strengths of the U.S. Constitution, and fail to realize that those strengths actually allow the country to function in a time of 'war', and change presidents.
Well, guess what? They *WILL* have to do that in four years.
Re:Now, let's all have a big Slashdot group hug (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Now, let's all have a big Slashdot group hug (Score:5, Insightful)
We could understand that Americans didn't know he was a fuckup when they first (barely) voted him in, but it's hard not to know he's a fuckup now. Although I work with a number of Americans I respect, I've generally lost quite a bit of respect for American "intelligence" in general.
Re:Now, let's all have a big Slashdot group hug (Score:5, Funny)
Somehow I think we'll manage.
Re:Now, let's all have a big Slashdot group hug (Score:5, Insightful)
That sure worked well with Hitler, Napoleon, Lenin, Stahlin [sic], etc.
Re:Now, let's all have a big Slashdot group hug (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why did Kerry lose to Bush? (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't think a candidate for re-election would've stood a chance in committing what are, I'm starting to think, necessary atrocities. I'm thinking the war we've seen in iraq (thus far) has been nothing more than groundwork for a larger and startlingly brilliant campaign.
For a moment, let's say that's all wrong and this isn't "the plan." Things get worse rather than better, and there will be no arguments in 2008 of "Well if he'd had 4 more years."
Let's say someone else had won, kerry or not, and now has the job of cleaning up. Let's say the guy needs more than 4 years to perform all the repair to our international credibility, relationships, etc. How does that person get re-elected?
This decision may end up causing more damage to america and the nations in the middle-east, but I wonder if it's not better to allow the process to finish before trying to roll it back (or, in the case of a real victory over terrorism) building fresh in new places.
Maybe I'm feeding a troll, maybe I should've posted anonymously, but I don't think it's worth the loss of political currency, right now, to be blamed for what will be a failed cleanup after W's presidency.
One last note. George W. Bush didn't outwit anyone. His campaign manager did, perhaps, or Kerry has defeated himself.
Oh Canada! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Oh Canada! (Score:5, Funny)
Immigration, eh? (Score:5, Informative)
ALL HAIL CANADA! [ptbcanadian.com]
Re:Oh Canada! (Score:5, Funny)
Well, you're better off than me. I still gotta learn to speak Canadian!
Re:Oh Canada! (Score:5, Funny)
Insert standard disclaimer here (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Oh Canada! (Score:5, Funny)
Four years later and he's still here.
-Peter
Re:Oh Canada! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Oh Canada! (Score:5, Insightful)
Tell that to the marines.
Re:Oh Canada! (Score:5, Insightful)
Because, as a citizen, it is my job to reason why.
Re:Oh Canada! (Score:5, Insightful)
If I believed in what they are doing over there, I'd be over there, why aren't you?
Well of course they do! (Score:5, Insightful)
How many Marines do you think there are that think that military force is the wrong way to solve problems?
The Marines absolutely have to believe they're doing the right thing. That absolute, unwavering belief is part of what keeps them alive.
The thing is, Marines are generally not political scientists. They're not experts on foreign relations, and they don't know the nuances of the different branches of Islam. They're the pointy end of the stick, and they're damn good at being that.
The problem is, the person weilding that pointy stick has to use that stick effectively. They're supposed to be the ones who *do* know about diplomacy, who *do* know about the history of the region, the culture, and everything else. Loyal marines should *not* be wasted on something that is not going to make the country or the world safer.
What many of the "liberals" think is that not only is it awful that US soldiers are being killed, the bad part is that it is making both the country and the world a less safe place. It's the job of the Marines to do what the Commander in Chief says to do, including dying. Its the job of the voters to choose a Commander in Chief who won't send them to die unless it's absolutely necessary.
If you disagree, and think that their deaths are necessary to help save the world, why not enlist [marines.com]. It's something that far more of the current democrat politicians have done than republicans. Maybe that should tell you something.
Re:Oh Canada! (Score:5, Insightful)
No way this is funny...
Re:Oh Canada! (Score:5, Informative)
We hear a lot of threats to move from silly starlets and disgruntled geeks, but I've never heard of anyone who actually did it.
By the way, if anyone actually did move overseas, we miss you, and you can come back whenever you're ready. We won't wait up, but we'll leave the light on for you.
Re:Oh Canada! (Score:5, Informative)
The people in Canada are consistently a lot easier to live with than Americans. They aren't nearly as arrogant, stuck on themselves, and aren't socialized to think its their prerogative to shit on the rest of the world. Canadians can spot Americans a mile away since they are routinely assholes when they visit Canada. Canadians, at least all the ones I know, are consistently nice level headed people, hard workers, great partiers, its no accident they churn out great comedians, and THEY HAVE GREAT BEER. American beer sucks by comaprison. They have pretty strong socialist leanings but there are right wingers there just like here, they just aren't rabid like the American right wing.
If you are going to be an expat you need to be ready to deal with the immigration system which is the biggest hassle. It depends on where you are going but you usually need a job waiting, with a visa, though many countries like Costa Rica have pensionero visas where you just have to have a clean record and a proven investment income. Its designed to draw wealthy gringos who are looking for a cheap place to retire and spend their money. I think its a couple thousand dollars a year in interest, social security or investment income so its pretty easy to do. It is only a visa though.
The big challenge to being an expat is if you are really going to do it you have to ditch your U.S. passport and citizenship and get citizenship where you are going. It takes a lot of time and work to get citizenship most places and you need to make sure you pick a country where you are going to be happy, fit in for the duration, and a place that isn't like to explode in a revolution for example. Americans are too fat dumb and happy to revolt but there are places where radical changes do happen, often with the help of the CIA.
If you dont renounce your citizenship you get to file income tax returns with Uncle Sam in perpetuity and that means you are still supporting the mad dogs that now rule Washington. If you make more than than the exemption limit on foreign income you get double taxed, where you live and by Uncle Sam. I think the annual exemption was around $70K but I dont know what it is now. I'd heard the Republicans were moving it and maybe even lowering it to tax expats more though I don't recall what actually happened.
All in all carrying a U.S. passport and flaunting your American'ness has always been a bit of a negative around the world, people tend to envy you some and resent you some more. After the last 4 years I imagine flaunting American, and especially bragging about, in most of the world is going to invite nothing but negativity and grief. Canadains treat most Americans reasonably well because they are generally nice people but they aren't likely to really accept you and frequently will do their best screw you given the chance, just because you live in a country that tries to screw the rest of the world at every opportunity in every way.
Moved abroad (Score:5, Informative)
I'm posting in response to RealAlaskan's request for information about someone who had actually done the move. If people want to be angry at the content of my post, or troll, or whatever, that's on them. I imagine there are people who will read this who actually want to know.
Question part #1: why?
# It was depressing to wake up every morning knowing that my tax money and support of the American economy was being used to effect morally unconscionable things such as killing people for no good reason. Furthermore, from the moment I realized this was happening, it was my responsibility to stop letting others use my money and resources this way.
# I've learned that I've been lied to both about America itself, and America's role in the world, for my entire life through the television, school, and the work-sleep-die culture that persists there, and I'm angry about it.
# It was frustrating to be forced to see, every day, so many of the people around me (and a few of them otherwise very intelligent) living in a quasi-reality that is based upon these lies, their indoctrination being so complete that it was impossible to communicate what I'd learned to them.
# There are better places to live, and I believe I am now in one of them.
# Most importantly, I became convinced that I and the other people in America who came to understand the problems and recognize the lies were powerless to fix the situation, in spite of the fairy tale image that is put forth in our culture about the nature of American democracy allowing individual heroes to rise up and save the day.
Question part #2: how is it working out?
So far it is working out fine. Part of that is in the details of how I was able to move. I'm a self-employed internet consultant and I have three years worth of business licenses to prove it, and Finland appears to like self employed people. In order to live here legally, I had to get a residence permit from the Finnish government, and in order to do that, I had to first get what is known as a "favorable" work permit opinion from them, which meant basically that I had to show that I could support myself here, either through having found a job that I was legally qualified for, or being self employed. Thorough documentation of my self-employment got me the 'favorable' decision on my work permit opinion, and everything else fell into place. Total money sent to Finland to get both things out of the way: $164 and couple passport-type photographs, and the application process took 6 months from beginning to end. The stuff is valid for 1 year, and I have to reapply each year until I can get citizenship.
To get citizenship here, you have to live here legally for 5 years, and be able to speak one of the primary languages (Swedish or Finnish) when you apply. We'll see how that goes, as that is my plan for the future. Finnish is a very hard language to learn, btw, but within 5 years I hope to be able to get good enough.
So I now live in the Helsinki area and continue to work for my American customers. So far it is working out fine. My rent for this 2 bedroom apartment is around 480 euro/month and it is a decent sized apartment. One does not need a car to do most things around here. Each road of any size has a huge sidewalk the size of a lane of road, and this is for both bicycle riders and pedestrians. City-maintained bike+pedestrian paths also cut through every imagineable area one could presume one might fit, and the ones that cut through the woods are used as ski trails when it snows. The area is an interesting combination of urban + suburb, there are woods everywhere but at the same time, it is a real city. This place is a jogger's dream come true, and people of all ages ride bicycles all over the place. Even old people ride bikes.
P
Re:Oh Canada! (Score:5, Insightful)
You might have a point (Score:5, Interesting)
But I'm guessing me might disagree on what to do now. My idea was to buy time on a little light bulb AM station somewhere and air the voice of the independent radio show. Spend the next four years hacking everything the Republicans do, spouting conspiracy theories, stating absolute garbage as established fact and screening calls to make it sound like everyone agrees with me. Pretend to be an overall Bush supporter, then mention every piece of dirt that has plausible deniability.
I'd spend the next four years hacking back at them in the media like they did for eight years of Clinton's term.
Politics is a dirty game and it's time to start fighting dirty.
I'm guessing that may not be what you have in mind, but we've got nothing to lose going negative at this point. Light the flame throwers! You want division, we'll give you division and angry, unrelenting defensiveness until you're stuffed with it. We'll take our cues from Karl Rove's playbook and make winning a living hell.
Re:Oh Canada! (Score:5, Insightful)
The real problem is not that Americans on the losing side are frustrated, it's that the U.S. is so bitterly divided now. The radicals on each side have been vilifying the other, so much that it's gotten difficult to have a civilized discussion. Most of the people on either side love their country, but we have trouble remembering that in the midst of all the vitriol. Loving your country includes loving the half of the citizens who disagree with you, after all. Or at least recognizing that they're just as much part of the country as you are.
As a nation, we need to start accepting the other side, and try to figure out a way to live together with people whose views and lifestyles we don't especially like (and even abhor). Not a meeting-in-the-middle kind of compromise (which neither side will accept), but some kind of cohabitation agreement where we come to some arrangement that keeps us out of each others' faces. I honestly don't see either side changing their minds about what they don't like in the other, so we need to move beyond the battle for hearts and minds (and laws), and try to accommodate each side.
As for leaving the country, it's not at that point yet. The checks and balances in the system were designed expressly to avoid the evils of majority rule, and it's up to those on the 'blue' side to make sure their senators and reps use those checks to the fullest. The checks and balances have already reined in the worst excesses of the Bush administration, like the attempted end-run around the court system.
Re:Oh Canada! (Score:5, Funny)
If I was God, I'd be, like "Get the hell off me ya freaking Canuck! I've got better things to do than be your rug!"
"Immature" (Score:5, Insightful)
Here's an idea (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Oh Canada! (Score:5, Insightful)
That's what fucking scares and alienates me in my own country. Tolerance in U.S.? Fuck no. From Canadian news [canada.com] One-fourth of Ohio voters identified themselves as born-again Christians and they backed Bush by a 3-to-1 margin....Bush was favoured among ...evangelical Christians who view him as a messenger from God in a titanic fight to quell terrorism and spread liberty around the world...
Why is it that America and the fucked Middle East are the fundamentalists and problem-causers, while the rest of the world has gotten over it? The middle ages are over, fellow Americans. Figure it out. (ps. my viewpoint: I'm 2nd-generation Turkish American, committed atheist: after seeing what fundamentalists (muslim and christian) are doing to both of my otherwise lovely countries.
Re:Oh Canada! (Score:5, Funny)
"...without a lot of extra fuss and recount"? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:"...without a lot of extra fuss and recount"? (Score:5, Funny)
How to Entertain Yourself until Thanksgiving (Score:5, Funny)
- Take up assault weapon collecting as a hobby
- Figure out how to best invest your $300 annual Bush tax savings to cover the social security benefits you'll never get
- Become rich, then get all your income from mostly untaxed dividends and capital gains income
- Join the guard and train for a one year tour of duty in Iraq
- Move so that the selective service can't find you
- Take some gay people and a girlfriend (work with me here) to Vegas. Taunt them by getting married and divorced inside of 12 hours.
- Make a sign saying "The Government should stay out of our lives!" and go protest in front of an abortion clinic.
- Pick up bow and arrow making to capitalize on the new corporate tax incentives
- Do something illegal, get arrested, and excercise your right to trial before 4 years of Bush-appointed, Republican confirmed Supreme Court appointees uphold the Patriot Act's elimination of right to trial.
let me be the first to say.... (Score:5, Insightful)
I need directions . . . (Score:5, Funny)
Can someone tell me where I can sign-up for the upcoming Civil War?
Re:I need directions . . . (Score:5, Insightful)
That was it, last night. Every election is a bloodless civil war.
In all seriousness, continued attempts to start a bloddy one one are going to be met with overwhelming hostility. The solution to losing an election is not to start a war, and anybody who truly acts like it is shouldn't be moving to Canada, they should be moving to central Africa or something where that sort of barbaric behavior really is the expected result.
I'm not a "love it or leave it" person; I'm a "love it, leave it, work within the system to change it, or shut the hell up" person. But if you really think this is worth killing people because an election didn't go your way, then I offer you two other choices: Shut the hell up about "civil war" and grow up, or yes, get the hell out.
Good lord. You can demonize conservatives as much as you want, but when Clinton won, nobody talked about civil war.
Grow up, kiddies. You lose sometimes. Now is a chance to rebuild and refocus. Start a war and I'll be first in line to stop you with all necessary force.
one nation under god (Score:5, Funny)
Re:one nation under god (Score:5, Insightful)
if you heard the Bush supporters calling up, they voted for him because of religion, no other reason.
so, now that Bush thinks God wants him to be president and he things God is telling him how to govern, we are in deep shit during his Legacy term.
Re:one nation under god (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:one nation under god (Score:5, Insightful)
I've said it once and I'll say it again: The quicker we all figure out that both Democrats(Liberals) and Republicans(Conservatives) are both in it to fuck over the common man, the better off we'll all be.
Agreed, a real alternative badly needed (Score:5, Insightful)
The situation for Americans wanting a real choice is becoming more bleak with each election. We need new parties.
And the rest of the world... (Score:5, Funny)
Repent, for the Apocalypse Draws Nigh! (Score:5, Funny)
The only question in my mind is what form will the other two Horsemen take?
At least I don't have to update my .sig
Some silver lining.
Huh? (Score:5, Interesting)
*sigh*
took the high road (Score:5, Insightful)
I've seen reports of anywhere from 100,000 to 250,000 provisional votes, plus absentee ballots, plus recounts where necessary, still all hanging in the balance. Its a slim chance, but Kerry could still possibly win it if he pressed ahead with a long, drawn out legal battle. I'm assuming that his concession is a statement that he will not lead the Democrats down that road for the good of the country.
Ohio still has the responsibility of counting those ballots, though.
Re:took the high road (Score:5, Insightful)
Only if all of those prrovisionals are for Kerry.
Not happening.
Re:took the high road (Score:5, Insightful)
He was down 136,221 [cnn.com] votes. Kerry's single best county in Ohio was Cuyahoga [cnn.com] (City of Cleveland), where he scored 67%. The most favorable assumption one could realistically offer would be that the as-yet uncounted provisionals would be as good as Kerry's best county. There are 135,149 [nytimes.com] known provisional ballots + perhaps 10% more that may yet be reported. So, 135149*(110%) provisionals *67% margin = 99605 votes possibly gained.
That's 136,221 - 99,605 = 36,616 votes too few.
I feel like going door to door and yelling at my neighbors. I feel worse that I didn't do it last week.
Only Good thing for the Dem's (Score:5, Insightful)
Here we go...... (Score:5, Insightful)
Aren't people tired of predicting the end of the world? Call me crazy, but I think we'll still be around 4 years from now with another successful election taking place.
It isn't over (Score:5, Interesting)
Let me tell you why (Score:5, Insightful)
Bush didn't win, Kerry lost.
Kerry was a TERRIBLE candidate. He took both sides of every issue. He would tell people whatever they wanted to hear. When people can't get a sense of where a candidate stands on anything, the incumbent wins. Really, it's as simple as that. I don't think many people were enthusiastic Bush supporters, but most people couldn't stomach voting for Kerry.
Instead of asking why the American people voted for Bush, ask yourself why the Democrats couldn't come up with a better candidate than Kerry.
The devious Gay Marriage measures (Score:5, Insightful)
Bush won the vote in many of those states because Christians showed up to vote to ban Gay Marriage.
Very clever on part of the Republican Strategists. It is doubtful that the "Evangellical Christians" would have voted if the anti-gay measures weren't on the ballot.
Evangellical Christians only show up when they can vote a fool into power or restrict personal liberties. I left my home town because of those fascists...
The rest of the world must think we're idiots (Score:5, Insightful)
So how the hell did he get elected? A combination of:
1. People, especially people over 50, who blindly vote for "their" party candidate.
2. A bizarre, misguided group who regard Bush as having high morals. I'm as dumbfounded as anyone here, but just watch how often this comes up in analyses.
3. A similarly bizarre, misguided group who seem to think that Iraq was responsible for the 9/11 attacks and Bush is keeping them from attacking us again.
4. Voting for the status quo is safer than a new guy.
5. Nobody really liked Kerry all that much. The anti-Bush people latched onto him because he's all we had.
This is a good argument for changing how a president is elected. For a good read, see Peter Norvig's Hiring a President [norvig.com].
A sad day indeed.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Liberal Flip-flopping? (Score:5, Insightful)
This is the story when bad meets evil (Score:5, Insightful)
And somewhere... my man michael badnarik is crying
T'is a sad day for me indeed. Support instant runoff voting! This 2 party crap has got to go.
alright, now flame away. But I had to get that off my chest.
despair (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm an American in London [colingregorypalmer.net] and used to be able to tell Europeans that I hope most of the American people don't approve of Bush and wouldn't have voted him in if they knew what he was going to do. Now I see that I am wrong and I despair.
LeftWing Propaganda Machine needed to match Right (Score:5, Insightful)
THe rightwing propaganda machine starts with nonprofit foundations and think tanks that pay for studies and write articles based on those studies. Of course, because there is no criminal penalty for cooked, bogus studies, and no money to check these studies and news articles that are based on these studies, the rightwing propaganda machine is able to dominate the media agenda. THey have the money. THey are funded into the billions by billionaires and global corporations.
THe news articles based on these studies are propagated to media outlets (tv radio papers) where they reach the public.
The rightwing propaganda machine also does many other things, such as fund up and coming rightwing media talent, e.g., giving grants to promising rightwing radio talk show hosts, authors and reporters, consultants etc.
Also, because the rightwing propaganda machine has so much money to give, most high profile media figures, reporters, etc, know that after they quit working at their current job with the networks, newspaper, etc, if they are ideologically "suitable, they can get lots of fat consultancy gigs with the rightwing propaganda machine, as long as they do not piss them off.
So the rightwing propaganda machine is like a huge planet in a solar system, or maybe even like the sun itself.
If liberals want to change America, they need to fund a LEFTwing propaganda machine. It costs money. Unfortunately, the entities with the money want to keep their money. So they are not about to fund a LEFTwing propaganda machine. So it is up to us.
Once we do get a a LEFTwing propaganda machine, we need to make sure it pushes OUR agenda, and it needs to get down to the nitty gritty of the issues. We need to make the case to the American people that high taxation is where it is at. And it really is. All we have to do is show people that high tax welfare states are a great place to live. Look at countries like Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Belgium, France, etc. Do you see a lot of citizens coming over here from there to live permanently? No! Yes, some of them (the cream of the crop) came over here doing the IT boom to make more money, but they know they have a good deal there.
We need to make the case that America is a partnership and we are getting ripped off by the richest Americans.
Crank up a LEFTwing propaganda machine. Start generating facts and figures. Start with healthcare. Show Americans exactly what is going on with nationalized universal healthcare in places like Canada, Sweden, Denmark, France etc.
Show how West Europe and their unions and restricted trade benefits the people. Hell, in Sweden it is quite difficult to expand a business. But there are reasons for that. Show Ameiricans that having corporations get their fingers into every pie disempowers the average person.
Teach America the game theory of politics.
To change America, we need to define our issues and an agenda. The problem is that we have simply moved along to the right with the GOP, keeping ever so slightly to the left of the GOP. No wonder white suburban and rural middle class Americans do not trust the Democrats. They seem to simply see the Left as a tool of the minorities for ripping them off for the welfare checks of the urban minorities.
But to do all this we need a LEFTwing propaganda machine. But we have to pay for it.
----All about Leftism
Oh Canada! (Score:5, Funny)
The Canadian Anthem
"O Canada"
O Canada! Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.
With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North, strong and free!
From far and wide,
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
God keep our land glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
Refrain
O Canada, glorious and free!
We stand on guard, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee!
O Canada! Where pines and maples grow.
Great prairies spread and lordly rivers flow.
How dear to us thy broad domain,
From East to Western Sea,
Thou land of hope for all who toil!
Thou True North, strong and free!
Refrain
O Canada, glorious and free!
We stand on guard, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee!
O Canada! Beneath thy shining skies
May stalwart sons and gentle maidens rise,
To keep thee steadfast through the years
From East to Western Sea,
Our own beloved native land!
Our True North, strong and free!
Refrain
O Canada, glorious and free!
We stand on guard, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee!
Ruler supreme, who hearest humble prayer,
Hold our dominion within thy loving care;
Help us to find, O God, in thee
A lasting, rich reward,
As waiting for the Better Day,
We ever stand on guard.
Refrain
O Canada, glorious and free!
We stand on guard, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee!
Emigrating to a secular nation...which one? (Score:5, Interesting)
When the war between the fundamentalist Muslims and the fundamentalist Christians escalates into WW III, I'd rather be watching from the sidelines in a country that has advanced beyond superstitions.
Crap (Score:5, Funny)
I had my eye on this awesome 17" flatscreen display down at Staples
Advice (Score:5, Insightful)
Let the Republicans do whatever they want. Don't fight them on any issue. Let them pass any legislation they want, appoint any judges they want, spend any money they want, cut any taxes they want. Let them have free reign of the government. They want a chance to prove their system works? Give it to them. In fact, whenever they ask you to support them on an issue, go willingly, go gladly and give them everything they want.
In 4, 8 or 12 years, let's see how things turn out. If it's really that bad, then the Democrats will easily be able to regain control of everything. If things are going well, then we'll know for certain that the conservative agenda works and we will have a clear mandate for the future.
It's time for the democrats to fall back and watch for a while. It may be a lot to suffer, but I think it's the only way for us to get past the divisiveness. If the Democrats continue to fight the Republicans, they will continue to get blamed for the lack of progress in this country and continue to be labeled as whiners and obstructionists. By not making challenges, then they can't be blamed for mistakes, and if there are costly mistakes, it will be easy to turn the country in a different direction and start again. For the liberal America, this is your trial by fire.
Defeat means it's time to regroup. (Score:5, Insightful)
Congrats, Bush supporters. You side won, and won relatively definitively compared with 2000. You also picked up some house seats and a Senate seat (two if you count Zell Miller as a Dem). It's your day, and despite my personal views I honestly hope that the US electorate made the right decision.
To my fellow dems, well, here we are. Take a couple of days to lick your wounds and feel shitty -- it's always tough to lose, especially when it's a close one. But no matter what, and especially no matter how much crap you take in the next couple of days, don't lose faith. There are two things I've learned about politics: (a) there's always another election and (b) things are never as bad as they seem.
In retrospect, I believe it was to our detriment that we didn't lose the popular vote in 2000 because it gave us and excuse to not stop, admit defeat and regroup -- instead, we figured we could just steamroll to the next election and win. Well, now we know better.
Back in 1992, the GOP suffered the same sort of defeat we're facing now (actually, a worse defeat). They did the right thing with it, though, and in '94 they came back and were able to be highly successful by presenting a new look and new promise.
I know. I was a Republican back then. I was at a victory party for a GOP house member named Scott Klug whose campaign I'd worked on when the wind shifted. You could *feel* it happening -- it was the dawn of a new day for a party that had strayed away from its roots during Bush I.
Well folks, this is our 1992. Even now, the GOP is drifting away from its core ideas of fiscal responsibility and keeping its nose out of people's business. It's our opportunity to retake the soul of our party and demand a new look and better people, and they're out there right now -- Russ Feingold in Wisconsin, Barak Obama in Illinois and dozens of other good Americans around the country ready to be the new face of our party. It'll happen, but it can't happen without our determination and our hard work.
I won't give up, and neither should you. At the risk of sounding cheesy, we'll pull this off for the same reason the GOP did a decade ago because of a fundemental commonality we share with them: We're Americans. We don't give up, we don't quit, we don't go quietly.
France called... (Score:5, Funny)
A dim outlook for the next 4 years (Score:5, Insightful)
The White house and the Republicans were smart and farsighted enough to realize that by galvanizing the religious, the evangelical community, it stands to gain the most. And they did. As much as Democrats gained by getting the youths out to vote (even then it wasnt a total success as less than 1 in 10 voter was between 18-24), Republicans reaped the rewards of getting Rural america to vote. Thus, being slanted towards the left that I am, I believe Poor people, uneducated, mostly white as well as blue collar americans decided to stay the course with their president. Reasons are quite a few. And has a lot to do with how the Republican's stayed the course, kept their message clear and did not waver, did not admit any mistakes (though they were made all over).
But most of all, Bush won four more years, because they were able to equate Democratic party and Kerry with a Sinful party, a party that is elitist, that looks down upon their religion and cares more about the environment than their jobs. All of which the white house and the Bush administration were eager enough to portray Kerry and his cohorts as least interested in the commmon man and his values. People who voted for Bush, atleast a significant portion, voted overwhelmingly for his virtues (though there are seemingly none) and the values they believed he will uphold.
Republicans also were smart enough to include the Ban for Same Sex marriage on the ballot, thereby once again drawing a parallel between morality and the Presidency. As Republican party seemed more and more the party that cared about religious values, about people's jobs, about tax cuts(though for wealthy), and about the nation's security, The Democratic party seems more and more elitist, belonging to the yuppies, caring more about tree huggers than about the loggers and their jobs, caring more about gays and their rights than about "preserving the sanctity of marriage" and ultimately wavering all over the place with their message and their views on foriegn policy. Kerry also couldnt put forth a consistent and coherent plan on Iraq. I almost wish he had said: "We will pull out of Iraq in six months, regardless of what the cost, to save more american lives, and we will let a Global coalition sort out the mistakes of the previous administration", that could have been a start. But he didnt and as time wore on, there wasnt much of a difference between Bush and Kerry on the war on terror and the war in Iraq and the differences they did have were on moral grounds, on values, on tax cuts, on environmental rights, that majority of Rural america dont give a hoot for.
It will be interesting and we will all be watching the road ahead with trepidation. There is a possibility that the current administration, takes the permission to rule fairly for the next four years, as a god given right and squander it, infact, its not a possibility, it is certain. This President had a chance to unite the country 3 years ago, but he didnt. I dont think he will start now. We will have 4 more years of the same, but more over, we will look back on this day and wonder why we voted to give him 4 more years.
Stop whining -- something about it! (Score:5, Insightful)
My family (wife and three kids) supported Bush this year. Not because he's the magic bullet which will fix America's problems, but because he's much less dangerous than Kerry. Last night at dinner, the kids were watching the early returns, and were worried that Kerry might win. I told them, "Kerry might win. If he does, he's going to be our president for four years, and we'll do our best to support him. Everything will be all right."
Kerry was a very, very poor candidate. He was, as it turns out, unelectable. The Democrats were given the "Perfect Storm" election:
--A sitting president engaged in an unpopular war, with no clear extraction date
--An incumbent who can't reliably speak the English language
--Job loss statistics pointing to millions of lost jobs
--Massive healthcare cost inflation
--A swing from huge budget surpluses to huge deficits
--A "charged-up" base who felt that the 2000 election had been stolen
--Hundreds of millions of $ in 527 support
The Democratic party should have had no trouble presenting a candidate who would have been able to crush the incumbent. Instead, they chose Kerry.
I understand you're mad at the results. I think it's time to look inwardly, and reform the Democratic Party. Learn from this mistake. Show the American people that you're not run by left-wing nutjobs, and field an electable candidate, and I can't see how you lose in 2008.
Unless you try to nominate Hillary.
Re:gore (Score:5, Funny)
-9mm-
Re:Thank you Mr. Kerry (Score:5, Insightful)
The votes reported by the precints say Kerry loses (Score:5, Insightful)
Additionally, Bush has a SIGNIFICANT edge in the popular vote.
Democracy doesn't mean the best man wins, it just means the majority is responsible for who they pick.
Re:Thank you Mr. Kerry (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Thank you Mr. Kerry (Score:5, Informative)
Re:disappointment (Score:5, Insightful)
So if any of you out there (of legal voting age) who bitched but didn't vote, please stop bitching, as some other foolish candidate in the future may end up running supporting your cause thinking that you may actually vote.
Election reform? (Score:5, Interesting)
This is yet another case where I wish America was on the popular vote system rather than the electoral vote system. Bush clearly won the popular vote by a factor of 3,529,724. While I didn't vote for Bush based on these numbers I could move on. But the Bush lead in Ohio is 136,221, a margin lower than the amount of votes still left uncounted. I can not in good conscience say that Bush won our election so long as provisional and absentee votes are yet uncounted, to do so would be un-American.
This is a testament to the American democratic process, a process that serves to divide a nation rather than unite it.
Re:Well, (Score:5, Insightful)
I suspect that's what he meant by "us"
Re:TIME TO PLAY THE BLAME GAME, FUCKERS (Score:5, Insightful)
Thus, I agree: I no longer blame Bush for the situation we're in. I blame the American public.
Re:TIME TO PLAY THE BLAME GAME, F*** (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:TIME TO PLAY THE BLAME GAME, FUCKERS (Score:5, Insightful)
Regarding the terrorists, yes they actually do the attacks, and they are wrong to do so, but it is still largely caused by the asinine and boorish foreign policies embraced by the Republican party.
Regarding the draft, well, the Republican party may say they don't want it, but those same foreign policies may necessitate it. The Dems who are pushing for it know they won't get it, they're trying to make a political point.
And you think we've established
Conservative judges actually look at the constitution? Damn, they must be missing that amendment that talks about "equal protection under the law"...
And while we shouldn't be accountable to the rest of the world, you might think something is awry when 80% of the world doesn't like what you're doing. Considering the thoughts of others doesn't mean you're cowtowing to them, it just means you're not an arrogant asshole.
Lastly, the whole "full of steaming hate" thing, well, yes, they're often frustrated and even hateful. But that's just ad hominem, you should decide based on the actual issues. And frankly, the frustration and hate is quite understandable, if you bothered to actually look at the issues.
Re:Sad sad day (Score:5, Insightful)
Economists against Kerrynomics [nationalreview.com]
Besides, we were already in a recession when Clinton left office. The surplus was dissipating as the tech bubble burst and the market took a dive. The subsequent accounting scandals didn't help. 9/11 didn't help. I'm not saying Bush didn't overspend, he did. What I'm saying is, he's planning to spend less than Kerry. To be quite honest, that's the main issue I voted on.
Re:Congratulations (Score:5, Insightful)
Bush promised in 2000 that he would act as a president that would unite the country.
Four years later, and the country is even MORE divided than before, largely due to the acts of Mr. Bush and his administration during his presidency.
I believe as strongly as the Bush supporters believe Bush is the one man terrorist busting machine that he has no intention of ever acting as a unifier. You just need to listen to his rhetoric on any issue and you can not come to any other conclusion. It's always us against them, no matter the issue, small or large.
You can argue about everything else about his presidency, whether or not the war on Iraq was justified or not, or whether or not the economy is better off now than 4 years ago, but on the point of dividing the country, there is no argument. He has failed, miserably, in uniting the country.
Further I believe that he has done so because that is his true nature. He calls it being steadfast, I call it a stubborn inability to make compromises whether due to his ideology (right-wing Christian), partisan hackery (Republicans are right, Democrats are wrong, no matter what) or just plain lack of diplomatic skills.
To me this is more of an issue than anything else, it goes to the heart of what Mr. Bush is like and how he governs.
In a country like the United States that was founded on the principals of freedom, free exchange of ideas and diversity among other things, it is truly unbeliavable someone like Mr. Bush could ever become a president.
Re:Key items to note: (Score:5, Insightful)
And you're proud? A nation is heavily divided against an administration that is destroying the economy, civil rights, foreign relations, and the environment.
Under different forms of government of government this would have seen an armed upraising or states fracturing off and declaring independence. Instead, because of democracy and voting people just shrug it off and decide to suffer under 4 more years of this just so they can vote again.
Sometimes the proper thing to do _is_ to riot in the streets, launch a coup, or succede.
Perhaps the British parliment should have granted the Americans some form of elected representation in their houses. Then there wouldn't have been a Boston Tea Party or armed revolt. Instead the founding fathers would have just ran for parliment and 200 years later the US would still be colony. Maybe.
Re:Key items to note: (Score:5, Insightful)
You're talking as if the US is alone in terms of being a stable democracy. In fact, if you look anywhere from Australia to Ireland to New Zealand to India to the UK to South Africa... there seem to be an awful lot of democracies about, and most of them don't owe their system of government to an American heritage.
I'm sorry to sound a bit of a moaner, and gripe about your very noble patriotic sentiment, but Aussies like me actually get a bit irked when we hear Americans talking as if they owned democracy. (And we then normally mutter and grumble amongst ourselves about how Rumsfeld, Powell, etc did not have to stand for election, whereas Australian and many other countries' government ministers do at least have to be elected to parliament or the senate first)
Re:Wow. (Score:5, Insightful)
Since when was George W. Bush the poster child for Moral Values?
Did I miss it when John Kerry said that he wanted cut expenses by using babies as speed bumps?
I guess no abortion and no gay marriage is the ticket to being a morally sound individual.
11 of 11 states that had "define mariage" proposals on the ballot passed them, most by a landslide. Maybe I'm naive, but I learned something new about this country last night.
Re:saddest day in my life ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Stop playing with your GI-joes little boy, that war has been over for 60 years and believe you me you are NOT your grandfather.
The people that liberate europe (not just US soldiers you arrogant little shit) are still venerated but united states credit has been running out steadily for years and Bush will spend the rest.
The conservative segment of America is the one leading for the war, defense of American ideals, and so on. The irony, most of the conservatives tend to personally agree with the Muslim stances on homosexuality, banking, sexual licentiousness, etc. (The degenerate culture we export around the world that is the number one reason Osama attacked.) And the irony, is we are defending the rights of people like you to have the freedom to be things we do not believe in.
Maybe we should let the extremists come to power...
Ow but you have let the extremists come to power. I can recognize them from far away no matter what flag they are wearing, Bush is no defender of any kind of freedom anywhere.
We're defending your asses...and you're to pompous and full of yourselves to realize it.
No, you're screwing with our asses and we'd love for you to stop doing it.