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United States Government Politics

Kerry Concedes Election To Bush 5687

WilliamGeorge points to this MSNBC story "that presidential candidate John Kerry has called George W Bush to concede the election. So it is over, and without a lot of extra fuss and recounts."
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Kerry Concedes Election To Bush

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @12:40PM (#10711096)
    And let us move back to our normal bickering of Linux vs. BSD.
    • What bickering? We all know BSD is dead.
  • Oh Canada! (Score:5, Funny)

    by raehl ( 609729 ) * <raehl311@yahoo.GAUSScom minus math_god> on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @12:40PM (#10711105) Homepage
    I guess I better learn the rest of that.
    • by Blindman ( 36862 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @12:42PM (#10711178) Journal
      I understand the sentiment, but wouldn't moving to Ohio be slightly more effective?
    • by Jeremiah Cornelius ( 137 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @12:42PM (#10711194) Homepage Journal
      Well, you're better off than me. I still gotta learn to speak Canadian!
    • by pete-classic ( 75983 ) <> on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @12:43PM (#10711241) Homepage Journal
      For god's sake, would you take Alec Baldwin with you?

      Four years later and he's still here.

    • by seestheday ( 629799 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @12:44PM (#10711264) Journal
      Are you sure you want to be a victim of America's foreign policy?
      • Re:Oh Canada! (Score:5, Insightful)

        by hey! ( 33014 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @12:58PM (#10711783) Homepage Journal
        Are you sure you want to be a victim of America's foreign policy?

        Tell that to the marines.
      • Re:Oh Canada! (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Dr. Hok ( 702268 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @01:08PM (#10712102)
        Are you sure you want to be a victim of America's foreign policy? (Score:5, Funny)

        No way this is funny...

    • Re:Oh Canada! (Score:5, Informative)

      by RealAlaskan ( 576404 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @01:00PM (#10711852) Homepage Journal
      So: if you're a Slashdot reader who moved abroad because of the political situation, please post here, and tell us why, and how it's working out.

      We hear a lot of threats to move from silly starlets and disgruntled geeks, but I've never heard of anyone who actually did it.

      By the way, if anyone actually did move overseas, we miss you, and you can come back whenever you're ready. We won't wait up, but we'll leave the light on for you.

      • Re:Oh Canada! (Score:5, Informative)

        by demachina ( 71715 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @01:52PM (#10712890)
        I'm American and lived in Canada about half my adult life and am one of the disgruntled geeks getting ready to leave again. I loved Canada. I'm sorry I didn't stay there and get on a citizenship track. I'll probably go someplace even cheaper and warmer this time and try to retire early.

        The people in Canada are consistently a lot easier to live with than Americans. They aren't nearly as arrogant, stuck on themselves, and aren't socialized to think its their prerogative to shit on the rest of the world. Canadians can spot Americans a mile away since they are routinely assholes when they visit Canada. Canadians, at least all the ones I know, are consistently nice level headed people, hard workers, great partiers, its no accident they churn out great comedians, and THEY HAVE GREAT BEER. American beer sucks by comaprison. They have pretty strong socialist leanings but there are right wingers there just like here, they just aren't rabid like the American right wing.

        If you are going to be an expat you need to be ready to deal with the immigration system which is the biggest hassle. It depends on where you are going but you usually need a job waiting, with a visa, though many countries like Costa Rica have pensionero visas where you just have to have a clean record and a proven investment income. Its designed to draw wealthy gringos who are looking for a cheap place to retire and spend their money. I think its a couple thousand dollars a year in interest, social security or investment income so its pretty easy to do. It is only a visa though.

        The big challenge to being an expat is if you are really going to do it you have to ditch your U.S. passport and citizenship and get citizenship where you are going. It takes a lot of time and work to get citizenship most places and you need to make sure you pick a country where you are going to be happy, fit in for the duration, and a place that isn't like to explode in a revolution for example. Americans are too fat dumb and happy to revolt but there are places where radical changes do happen, often with the help of the CIA.

        If you dont renounce your citizenship you get to file income tax returns with Uncle Sam in perpetuity and that means you are still supporting the mad dogs that now rule Washington. If you make more than than the exemption limit on foreign income you get double taxed, where you live and by Uncle Sam. I think the annual exemption was around $70K but I dont know what it is now. I'd heard the Republicans were moving it and maybe even lowering it to tax expats more though I don't recall what actually happened.

        All in all carrying a U.S. passport and flaunting your American'ness has always been a bit of a negative around the world, people tend to envy you some and resent you some more. After the last 4 years I imagine flaunting American, and especially bragging about, in most of the world is going to invite nothing but negativity and grief. Canadains treat most Americans reasonably well because they are generally nice people but they aren't likely to really accept you and frequently will do their best screw you given the chance, just because you live in a country that tries to screw the rest of the world at every opportunity in every way.
      • Moved abroad (Score:5, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @02:37PM (#10713565)
        I moved from the United States to Finland a month and a half ago due to the political situation in the USA. I was born in the USA and so were my parents, I'm not a returning former citizen to Finland or any such thing.

        I'm posting in response to RealAlaskan's request for information about someone who had actually done the move. If people want to be angry at the content of my post, or troll, or whatever, that's on them. I imagine there are people who will read this who actually want to know.

        Question part #1: why?

        # It was depressing to wake up every morning knowing that my tax money and support of the American economy was being used to effect morally unconscionable things such as killing people for no good reason. Furthermore, from the moment I realized this was happening, it was my responsibility to stop letting others use my money and resources this way.

        # I've learned that I've been lied to both about America itself, and America's role in the world, for my entire life through the television, school, and the work-sleep-die culture that persists there, and I'm angry about it.

        # It was frustrating to be forced to see, every day, so many of the people around me (and a few of them otherwise very intelligent) living in a quasi-reality that is based upon these lies, their indoctrination being so complete that it was impossible to communicate what I'd learned to them.

        # There are better places to live, and I believe I am now in one of them.

        # Most importantly, I became convinced that I and the other people in America who came to understand the problems and recognize the lies were powerless to fix the situation, in spite of the fairy tale image that is put forth in our culture about the nature of American democracy allowing individual heroes to rise up and save the day.

        Question part #2: how is it working out?

        So far it is working out fine. Part of that is in the details of how I was able to move. I'm a self-employed internet consultant and I have three years worth of business licenses to prove it, and Finland appears to like self employed people. In order to live here legally, I had to get a residence permit from the Finnish government, and in order to do that, I had to first get what is known as a "favorable" work permit opinion from them, which meant basically that I had to show that I could support myself here, either through having found a job that I was legally qualified for, or being self employed. Thorough documentation of my self-employment got me the 'favorable' decision on my work permit opinion, and everything else fell into place. Total money sent to Finland to get both things out of the way: $164 and couple passport-type photographs, and the application process took 6 months from beginning to end. The stuff is valid for 1 year, and I have to reapply each year until I can get citizenship.

        To get citizenship here, you have to live here legally for 5 years, and be able to speak one of the primary languages (Swedish or Finnish) when you apply. We'll see how that goes, as that is my plan for the future. Finnish is a very hard language to learn, btw, but within 5 years I hope to be able to get good enough.

        So I now live in the Helsinki area and continue to work for my American customers. So far it is working out fine. My rent for this 2 bedroom apartment is around 480 euro/month and it is a decent sized apartment. One does not need a car to do most things around here. Each road of any size has a huge sidewalk the size of a lane of road, and this is for both bicycle riders and pedestrians. City-maintained bike+pedestrian paths also cut through every imagineable area one could presume one might fit, and the ones that cut through the woods are used as ski trails when it snows. The area is an interesting combination of urban + suburb, there are woods everywhere but at the same time, it is a real city. This place is a jogger's dream come true, and people of all ages ride bicycles all over the place. Even old people ride bikes.

    • Re:Oh Canada! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Valar ( 167606 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @01:11PM (#10712175)
      Not to pick on you, particularly, because I know you are joking, but that is exactly the wrong attitude. Stick with America. If the people who have cared about our democracy in the past become so frustrated that they remove themselves from the process (geographically or mentally), there will be _no_ way for the entirety of american values and ideals to be represented. My number one fear right now is that the democrats, greens, libertarians, etc just surrender now, because I don't think America and the democratic process can survive without the attention of all well meaning Americans right now. Democracy isn't just about majority rule-- it is about reaching a compromise that maxmizes societal welfare.
      • by HangingChad ( 677530 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @02:00PM (#10713021) Homepage
        My number one fear right now is that the democrats, greens, libertarians, etc just surrender now...

        But I'm guessing me might disagree on what to do now. My idea was to buy time on a little light bulb AM station somewhere and air the voice of the independent radio show. Spend the next four years hacking everything the Republicans do, spouting conspiracy theories, stating absolute garbage as established fact and screening calls to make it sound like everyone agrees with me. Pretend to be an overall Bush supporter, then mention every piece of dirt that has plausible deniability.

        I'd spend the next four years hacking back at them in the media like they did for eight years of Clinton's term.

        Politics is a dirty game and it's time to start fighting dirty.

        I'm guessing that may not be what you have in mind, but we've got nothing to lose going negative at this point. Light the flame throwers! You want division, we'll give you division and angry, unrelenting defensiveness until you're stuffed with it. We'll take our cues from Karl Rove's playbook and make winning a living hell.

      • Re:Oh Canada! (Score:5, Insightful)

        by __aanebg9627 ( 695892 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @02:11PM (#10713163)

        The real problem is not that Americans on the losing side are frustrated, it's that the U.S. is so bitterly divided now. The radicals on each side have been vilifying the other, so much that it's gotten difficult to have a civilized discussion. Most of the people on either side love their country, but we have trouble remembering that in the midst of all the vitriol. Loving your country includes loving the half of the citizens who disagree with you, after all. Or at least recognizing that they're just as much part of the country as you are.

        As a nation, we need to start accepting the other side, and try to figure out a way to live together with people whose views and lifestyles we don't especially like (and even abhor). Not a meeting-in-the-middle kind of compromise (which neither side will accept), but some kind of cohabitation agreement where we come to some arrangement that keeps us out of each others' faces. I honestly don't see either side changing their minds about what they don't like in the other, so we need to move beyond the battle for hearts and minds (and laws), and try to accommodate each side.

        As for leaving the country, it's not at that point yet. The checks and balances in the system were designed expressly to avoid the evils of majority rule, and it's up to those on the 'blue' side to make sure their senators and reps use those checks to the fullest. The checks and balances have already reined in the worst excesses of the Bush administration, like the attempted end-run around the court system.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @12:41PM (#10711110)
    Sheesh, what am I going to do for entertainment between now and Thanksgiving?
  • by Ishkibble ( 581826 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @12:41PM (#10711119)
    what a shame, kerry would of lead the country in a better direction. it is truly a shame we have to wait another 4 years for some improvement to happen to this country
  • by jgaynor ( 205453 ) < minus language> on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @12:41PM (#10711132) Homepage

    Can someone tell me where I can sign-up for the upcoming Civil War?

    • by Jerf ( 17166 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @01:06PM (#10712042) Journal
      Can someone tell me where I can sign-up for the upcoming Civil War?

      That was it, last night. Every election is a bloodless civil war.

      In all seriousness, continued attempts to start a bloddy one one are going to be met with overwhelming hostility. The solution to losing an election is not to start a war, and anybody who truly acts like it is shouldn't be moving to Canada, they should be moving to central Africa or something where that sort of barbaric behavior really is the expected result.

      I'm not a "love it or leave it" person; I'm a "love it, leave it, work within the system to change it, or shut the hell up" person. But if you really think this is worth killing people because an election didn't go your way, then I offer you two other choices: Shut the hell up about "civil war" and grow up, or yes, get the hell out.

      Good lord. You can demonize conservatives as much as you want, but when Clinton won, nobody talked about civil war.

      Grow up, kiddies. You lose sometimes. Now is a chance to rebuild and refocus. Start a war and I'll be first in line to stop you with all necessary force.
  • by h0mer ( 181006 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @12:41PM (#10711137)
    4 years closer to Wal-Mart Nation... let's go get some NASCAR shit and go off to church!
  • by Flaming Halo ( 66391 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @12:42PM (#10711184)
    ...lets out a resounding "Aw, crap."
  • by applemasker ( 694059 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @12:42PM (#10711192)
    First the Red Sox win the Series, now this.

    The only question in my mind is what form will the other two Horsemen take?

    At least I don't have to update my .sig

    Some silver lining.

  • Huh? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Alan ( 347 ) <<gro.seifu> <ta> <xeretcra>> on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @12:43PM (#10711223) Homepage
    I'm confused, the race is really close (252/254) with at least one major swing state still not finished counting and with the race there still at 50%/49% or so. I thought that if it was a tight race you didn't give up.

  • took the high road (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Ubergrendle ( 531719 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @12:44PM (#10711254) Journal
    Looks like Kerry took the high road and decided to avoid a long drawn out affair. New Mexico and Iowa don't mean anything at this point, with Ohio representing the presidency.

    I've seen reports of anywhere from 100,000 to 250,000 provisional votes, plus absentee ballots, plus recounts where necessary, still all hanging in the balance. Its a slim chance, but Kerry could still possibly win it if he pressed ahead with a long, drawn out legal battle. I'm assuming that his concession is a statement that he will not lead the Democrats down that road for the good of the country.

    Ohio still has the responsibility of counting those ballots, though.
    • by YrWrstNtmr ( 564987 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @12:52PM (#10711546)
      Its a slim chance, but Kerry could still possibly win it if he pressed ahead with a long, drawn out legal battle.

      Only if all of those prrovisionals are for Kerry.
      Not happening.

    • by PMuse ( 320639 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @01:25PM (#10712464)
      Kerry did the math, that's all.

      He was down 136,221 [] votes. Kerry's single best county in Ohio was Cuyahoga [] (City of Cleveland), where he scored 67%. The most favorable assumption one could realistically offer would be that the as-yet uncounted provisionals would be as good as Kerry's best county. There are 135,149 [] known provisional ballots + perhaps 10% more that may yet be reported. So, 135149*(110%) provisionals *67% margin = 99605 votes possibly gained.

      That's 136,221 - 99,605 = 36,616 votes too few.

      I feel like going door to door and yelling at my neighbors. I feel worse that I didn't do it last week.
  • by evilned ( 146392 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @12:45PM (#10711308) Homepage
    Terry McAulliff will almost have to be fired as head of the DNC.
  • Here we go...... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by acoustix ( 123925 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @12:46PM (#10711318)
    ...with all of the conspiracy theories, about how the country will self-destruct, the world as we know it will end...

    Aren't people tired of predicting the end of the world? Call me crazy, but I think we'll still be around 4 years from now with another successful election taking place.

  • It isn't over (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Bronz ( 429622 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @12:48PM (#10711395)
    Technically, an election isn't over until the electoral college meets on December 13, 2004 (the Monday after the second Wednesday in December). At which point the electors are not bound to the results of their state as to who to cast their vote towards. Even if Bush won 100% of the popular vote, and Kerry conceeded 1 minute after the first precinct closed, Kerry could still be elected president. Or Nader for that matter.

  • by Reality Master 101 ( 179095 ) <RealityMaster101 AT gmail DOT com> on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @12:48PM (#10711409) Homepage Journal
    There will be much ranting and raving and cries of how stupid the American people are, but there are some very simple things at work here.

    Bush didn't win, Kerry lost.

    Kerry was a TERRIBLE candidate. He took both sides of every issue. He would tell people whatever they wanted to hear. When people can't get a sense of where a candidate stands on anything, the incumbent wins. Really, it's as simple as that. I don't think many people were enthusiastic Bush supporters, but most people couldn't stomach voting for Kerry.

    Instead of asking why the American people voted for Bush, ask yourself why the Democrats couldn't come up with a better candidate than Kerry.

  • by EnronHaliburton2004 ( 815366 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @12:49PM (#10711432) Homepage Journal
    Something that wasn't covered very well on the news was the number of Gay Marriage measures in different states.

    Bush won the vote in many of those states because Christians showed up to vote to ban Gay Marriage.

    Very clever on part of the Republican Strategists. It is doubtful that the "Evangellical Christians" would have voted if the anti-gay measures weren't on the ballot.

    Evangellical Christians only show up when they can vote a fool into power or restrict personal liberties. I left my home town because of those fascists...
  • by Junks Jerzey ( 54586 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @12:51PM (#10711529)
    Seriously, Bush is the worst president in the last 50 years. This is widely accepted and discussed; it's not my simple-minded view. He does things that no one would tolerate in the person running the company they work for, let alone a powerful country, like completely ignoring all the facts presented to him and making calls based on unfounded instinct.

    So how the hell did he get elected? A combination of:

    1. People, especially people over 50, who blindly vote for "their" party candidate.
    2. A bizarre, misguided group who regard Bush as having high morals. I'm as dumbfounded as anyone here, but just watch how often this comes up in analyses.
    3. A similarly bizarre, misguided group who seem to think that Iraq was responsible for the 9/11 attacks and Bush is keeping them from attacking us again.
    4. Voting for the status quo is safer than a new guy.
    5. Nobody really liked Kerry all that much. The anti-Bush people latched onto him because he's all we had.

    This is a good argument for changing how a president is elected. For a good read, see Peter Norvig's Hiring a President [].

    A sad day indeed.
  • My generation (Score:5, Insightful)

    by falcon5768 ( 629591 ) <Falcon5768@comca ... t minus caffeine> on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @12:56PM (#10711719) Journal

    Seriously, the youth vote was just as bad this year as it was four years ago..... What do we have to do make it a video game to make you stupid fucks vote? Your lives and the direction the country your going to be in charge of one day doesnt mean jack to you? Im sorry but they should just take away voting for 18 year olds and bring it back to 21 year olds.... if you guys cant use your right to vote, you shouldnt have it.

  • by CtAhBeAbNoAy ( 827653 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @12:59PM (#10711814)
    WOW - what a difference a day makes. Yesterday was how un-American it would be to vote for Bush and how he divides the country and now with Bush winning, it's "America is going to HELL" and "I'm moving to Canada." Who is really dividing America? I understand having passion for your beliefs, but now it is time to join together!!! America is great because of its individuals and its morals.
  • by rattler14 ( 459782 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @01:00PM (#10711872)
    So that battle between socialism (nationwide health care, expanded government welfare, progressive income taxes) and facism (patriot act, patriot act II?) will be faught again another day. Each side doing what's "best for america", meanwhile eroding our liberties away.

    And somewhere... my man michael badnarik is crying :)

    T'is a sad day for me indeed. Support instant runoff voting! This 2 party crap has got to go.

    alright, now flame away. But I had to get that off my chest.
  • despair (Score:5, Interesting)

    by CGP314 ( 672613 ) <> on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @01:06PM (#10712052) Homepage
    What depresses me the most about this is when GWB was elected, we didn't know what he was going to do. Now, with this election the American people have said "I agree with what you've done and would like more."

    I'm an American in London [] and used to be able to tell Europeans that I hope most of the American people don't approve of Bush and wouldn't have voted him in if they knew what he was going to do. Now I see that I am wrong and I despair.
  • by Cryofan ( 194126 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @01:06PM (#10712061) Journal
    The reason we lost is because we have not justified and defined a real leftist agenda. The Rightwing, on the other hand, has spent 30 years or more defining and justifying the RIghtwing agenda. We all "know" that low taxes are good for "The Economy" and we all "know" that productivity should be ever high and we all "know" that low labor costs are good and we all "know" that welfare states are bad and we all "know" that government managed healthcare is a disaster, etc etc etc. And why do we "know" all these things? Because the rightwing propaganda machine has been pushing them down our throats via the teevee, radio and newspapers for the last 30 years.

    THe rightwing propaganda machine starts with nonprofit foundations and think tanks that pay for studies and write articles based on those studies. Of course, because there is no criminal penalty for cooked, bogus studies, and no money to check these studies and news articles that are based on these studies, the rightwing propaganda machine is able to dominate the media agenda. THey have the money. THey are funded into the billions by billionaires and global corporations.

    THe news articles based on these studies are propagated to media outlets (tv radio papers) where they reach the public.

    The rightwing propaganda machine also does many other things, such as fund up and coming rightwing media talent, e.g., giving grants to promising rightwing radio talk show hosts, authors and reporters, consultants etc.

    Also, because the rightwing propaganda machine has so much money to give, most high profile media figures, reporters, etc, know that after they quit working at their current job with the networks, newspaper, etc, if they are ideologically "suitable, they can get lots of fat consultancy gigs with the rightwing propaganda machine, as long as they do not piss them off.

    So the rightwing propaganda machine is like a huge planet in a solar system, or maybe even like the sun itself.

    If liberals want to change America, they need to fund a LEFTwing propaganda machine. It costs money. Unfortunately, the entities with the money want to keep their money. So they are not about to fund a LEFTwing propaganda machine. So it is up to us.

    Once we do get a a LEFTwing propaganda machine, we need to make sure it pushes OUR agenda, and it needs to get down to the nitty gritty of the issues. We need to make the case to the American people that high taxation is where it is at. And it really is. All we have to do is show people that high tax welfare states are a great place to live. Look at countries like Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Belgium, France, etc. Do you see a lot of citizens coming over here from there to live permanently? No! Yes, some of them (the cream of the crop) came over here doing the IT boom to make more money, but they know they have a good deal there.

    We need to make the case that America is a partnership and we are getting ripped off by the richest Americans.

    Crank up a LEFTwing propaganda machine. Start generating facts and figures. Start with healthcare. Show Americans exactly what is going on with nationalized universal healthcare in places like Canada, Sweden, Denmark, France etc.

    Show how West Europe and their unions and restricted trade benefits the people. Hell, in Sweden it is quite difficult to expand a business. But there are reasons for that. Show Ameiricans that having corporations get their fingers into every pie disempowers the average person.

    Teach America the game theory of politics.

    To change America, we need to define our issues and an agenda. The problem is that we have simply moved along to the right with the GOP, keeping ever so slightly to the left of the GOP. No wonder white suburban and rural middle class Americans do not trust the Democrats. They seem to simply see the Left as a tool of the minorities for ripping them off for the welfare checks of the urban minorities.

    But to do all this we need a LEFTwing propaganda machine. But we have to pay for it.

    ----All about Leftism
  • Oh Canada! (Score:5, Funny)

    by hellfire ( 86129 ) <`moc.liamg' `ta' `vdalived'> on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @01:20PM (#10712376) Homepage
    For those Americans who need to start learning it, I am posting the lyrics here to Oh Canada:

    The Canadian Anthem

    "O Canada"

    O Canada! Our home and native land!
    True patriot love in all thy sons command.
    With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
    The True North, strong and free!
    From far and wide,
    O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
    God keep our land glorious and free!
    O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
    O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

    O Canada, glorious and free!
    We stand on guard, we stand on guard for thee.
    O Canada, we stand on guard for thee!

    O Canada! Where pines and maples grow.
    Great prairies spread and lordly rivers flow.
    How dear to us thy broad domain,
    From East to Western Sea,
    Thou land of hope for all who toil!
    Thou True North, strong and free!

    O Canada, glorious and free!
    We stand on guard, we stand on guard for thee.
    O Canada, we stand on guard for thee!

    O Canada! Beneath thy shining skies
    May stalwart sons and gentle maidens rise,
    To keep thee steadfast through the years
    From East to Western Sea,
    Our own beloved native land!
    Our True North, strong and free!

    O Canada, glorious and free!
    We stand on guard, we stand on guard for thee.
    O Canada, we stand on guard for thee!

    Ruler supreme, who hearest humble prayer,
    Hold our dominion within thy loving care;
    Help us to find, O God, in thee
    A lasting, rich reward,
    As waiting for the Better Day,
    We ever stand on guard.

    O Canada, glorious and free!
    We stand on guard, we stand on guard for thee.
    O Canada, we stand on guard for thee!
  • by calstraycat ( 320736 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @01:23PM (#10712439)
    Does anyone have any suggestions regarding where someone tired of living in a Christian theocracy might move to?

    When the war between the fundamentalist Muslims and the fundamentalist Christians escalates into WW III, I'd rather be watching from the sidelines in a country that has advanced beyond superstitions.
  • Crap (Score:5, Funny)

    by cyranoVR ( 518628 ) * <> on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @01:32PM (#10712588) Homepage Journal
    I was looking forward to the recount-induced riots and looting...

    I had my eye on this awesome 17" flatscreen display down at Staples :(
  • Advice (Score:5, Insightful)

    by fizban ( 58094 ) <> on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @01:50PM (#10712858) Homepage
    My advice to the Democrats:

    Let the Republicans do whatever they want. Don't fight them on any issue. Let them pass any legislation they want, appoint any judges they want, spend any money they want, cut any taxes they want. Let them have free reign of the government. They want a chance to prove their system works? Give it to them. In fact, whenever they ask you to support them on an issue, go willingly, go gladly and give them everything they want.

    In 4, 8 or 12 years, let's see how things turn out. If it's really that bad, then the Democrats will easily be able to regain control of everything. If things are going well, then we'll know for certain that the conservative agenda works and we will have a clear mandate for the future.

    It's time for the democrats to fall back and watch for a while. It may be a lot to suffer, but I think it's the only way for us to get past the divisiveness. If the Democrats continue to fight the Republicans, they will continue to get blamed for the lack of progress in this country and continue to be labeled as whiners and obstructionists. By not making challenges, then they can't be blamed for mistakes, and if there are costly mistakes, it will be easy to turn the country in a different direction and start again. For the liberal America, this is your trial by fire.
  • by Skyshadow ( 508 ) * on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @02:05PM (#10713086) Homepage
    This is probably far enough down the thread that it'll never get read, but:

    Congrats, Bush supporters. You side won, and won relatively definitively compared with 2000. You also picked up some house seats and a Senate seat (two if you count Zell Miller as a Dem). It's your day, and despite my personal views I honestly hope that the US electorate made the right decision.

    To my fellow dems, well, here we are. Take a couple of days to lick your wounds and feel shitty -- it's always tough to lose, especially when it's a close one. But no matter what, and especially no matter how much crap you take in the next couple of days, don't lose faith. There are two things I've learned about politics: (a) there's always another election and (b) things are never as bad as they seem.

    In retrospect, I believe it was to our detriment that we didn't lose the popular vote in 2000 because it gave us and excuse to not stop, admit defeat and regroup -- instead, we figured we could just steamroll to the next election and win. Well, now we know better.

    Back in 1992, the GOP suffered the same sort of defeat we're facing now (actually, a worse defeat). They did the right thing with it, though, and in '94 they came back and were able to be highly successful by presenting a new look and new promise.

    I know. I was a Republican back then. I was at a victory party for a GOP house member named Scott Klug whose campaign I'd worked on when the wind shifted. You could *feel* it happening -- it was the dawn of a new day for a party that had strayed away from its roots during Bush I.

    Well folks, this is our 1992. Even now, the GOP is drifting away from its core ideas of fiscal responsibility and keeping its nose out of people's business. It's our opportunity to retake the soul of our party and demand a new look and better people, and they're out there right now -- Russ Feingold in Wisconsin, Barak Obama in Illinois and dozens of other good Americans around the country ready to be the new face of our party. It'll happen, but it can't happen without our determination and our hard work.

    I won't give up, and neither should you. At the risk of sounding cheesy, we'll pull this off for the same reason the GOP did a decade ago because of a fundemental commonality we share with them: We're Americans. We don't give up, we don't quit, we don't go quietly.

  • by Dirtside ( 91468 ) on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @02:06PM (#10713103) Journal
    ...they want their statue back.
  • by cOdEgUru ( 181536 ) * on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @02:12PM (#10713179) Homepage Journal
    Why did Kerry lose? Why did Democratic pary lose more of its share in the senate?

    The White house and the Republicans were smart and farsighted enough to realize that by galvanizing the religious, the evangelical community, it stands to gain the most. And they did. As much as Democrats gained by getting the youths out to vote (even then it wasnt a total success as less than 1 in 10 voter was between 18-24), Republicans reaped the rewards of getting Rural america to vote. Thus, being slanted towards the left that I am, I believe Poor people, uneducated, mostly white as well as blue collar americans decided to stay the course with their president. Reasons are quite a few. And has a lot to do with how the Republican's stayed the course, kept their message clear and did not waver, did not admit any mistakes (though they were made all over).

    But most of all, Bush won four more years, because they were able to equate Democratic party and Kerry with a Sinful party, a party that is elitist, that looks down upon their religion and cares more about the environment than their jobs. All of which the white house and the Bush administration were eager enough to portray Kerry and his cohorts as least interested in the commmon man and his values. People who voted for Bush, atleast a significant portion, voted overwhelmingly for his virtues (though there are seemingly none) and the values they believed he will uphold.

    Republicans also were smart enough to include the Ban for Same Sex marriage on the ballot, thereby once again drawing a parallel between morality and the Presidency. As Republican party seemed more and more the party that cared about religious values, about people's jobs, about tax cuts(though for wealthy), and about the nation's security, The Democratic party seems more and more elitist, belonging to the yuppies, caring more about tree huggers than about the loggers and their jobs, caring more about gays and their rights than about "preserving the sanctity of marriage" and ultimately wavering all over the place with their message and their views on foriegn policy. Kerry also couldnt put forth a consistent and coherent plan on Iraq. I almost wish he had said: "We will pull out of Iraq in six months, regardless of what the cost, to save more american lives, and we will let a Global coalition sort out the mistakes of the previous administration", that could have been a start. But he didnt and as time wore on, there wasnt much of a difference between Bush and Kerry on the war on terror and the war in Iraq and the differences they did have were on moral grounds, on values, on tax cuts, on environmental rights, that majority of Rural america dont give a hoot for.

    It will be interesting and we will all be watching the road ahead with trepidation. There is a possibility that the current administration, takes the permission to rule fairly for the next four years, as a god given right and squander it, infact, its not a possibility, it is certain. This President had a chance to unite the country 3 years ago, but he didnt. I dont think he will start now. We will have 4 more years of the same, but more over, we will look back on this day and wonder why we voted to give him 4 more years.
  • by bshroyer ( 21524 ) <[gro.reyorhsterb] [ta] [terb]> on Wednesday November 03, 2004 @02:33PM (#10713507)
    Wow. What a sad, sad bunch of whining losers.

    My family (wife and three kids) supported Bush this year. Not because he's the magic bullet which will fix America's problems, but because he's much less dangerous than Kerry. Last night at dinner, the kids were watching the early returns, and were worried that Kerry might win. I told them, "Kerry might win. If he does, he's going to be our president for four years, and we'll do our best to support him. Everything will be all right."

    Kerry was a very, very poor candidate. He was, as it turns out, unelectable. The Democrats were given the "Perfect Storm" election:

    --A sitting president engaged in an unpopular war, with no clear extraction date
    --An incumbent who can't reliably speak the English language
    --Job loss statistics pointing to millions of lost jobs
    --Massive healthcare cost inflation
    --A swing from huge budget surpluses to huge deficits
    --A "charged-up" base who felt that the 2000 election had been stolen
    --Hundreds of millions of $ in 527 support

    The Democratic party should have had no trouble presenting a candidate who would have been able to crush the incumbent. Instead, they chose Kerry.

    I understand you're mad at the results. I think it's time to look inwardly, and reform the Democratic Party. Learn from this mistake. Show the American people that you're not run by left-wing nutjobs, and field an electable candidate, and I can't see how you lose in 2008.

    Unless you try to nominate Hillary.

Who goeth a-borrowing goeth a-sorrowing. -- Thomas Tusser