Techies Migrate in Search of Work 873
prostoalex writes "Tracing the story of one family where the father is employed in the IT field, the Washington Post discusses the current unemployment in the information technology field. For a good reason - for the first time in 30 years the IT unemployment rate exceeded the national average unemployment rate, implying that you have a better chance of getting a job if your field is something other than IT. The journalist does offer a disclaimer, saying that the term 'IT worker' is applied equally to a top-notch scientist in a research lab, to a dot-com startup billionaire, and to a local HTML guru. Relevant employment statistics also shows that layoffs in the IT field were up 60% in the third quarter of 2004."
Come to DC! (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Come to DC! (Score:3, Interesting)
I get to pay for Social Security without the hope of getting any,
get taxed without representation, and am also without hope of being trusted with any security clearance, not even one shared by hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people in this area.
Oh well, fortunately knowing what you're doing counts too.
Re:Come to DC! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Come to DC! (Score:4, Insightful)
The only thing that's kept it alive this long is that the Baby Boomers hadn't retired yet -- while they were still working, the money coming in to the "trust fund" was just about equal to what was getting paid out.
Now that the baby boomer generation is starting to retire, there are going to be A LOT MORE people drawing Social Security benefits and A LOT LESS money going in to the system. Can you say "negative cash flow"?
The money Congress stole is going to have to be repaid or else people are going to wake up and realize it's all been a big Ponzi scheme. You think Bush's Billionare Buddies are going to let him raise *their* taxes? You've gotta be kidding me. It's us -- the middle class who works for a living -- who are going to have to pay more taxes to cover the shortfall.
Re:Come to DC! (Score:3, Insightful)
There are a lot fewer billionares than middle class. The middle class does have the power to redistribute the wealth of the rich. It is called DEMOCR
Re:Come to DC! (Score:5, Insightful)
What are the benefits again?
That being said - I'm all for paying into Social Security to support those who depend on it or have paid into it for decades (and doing so as long as needed). But as a younger worker (30), give me the opportunity to save some of that myself in my own plan. Don't force me to pay into something I don't want and provides virtually ZERO benefit!
Re:Come to DC! (Score:3, Insightful)
Quite so.
Unfortunately when they "cash in" those T-Bonds to pay benefits,
...the bonds won't be worth a plugged nickel.
That's because the Asian central banks holding over US$1e12 of T bonds and the owners of accumulated petrodollars will get tired of the weakening dollar eating their lunch.
We'll see $100/bbl oil, $5/gal gasoline a lot sooner than most of my fellow Americans realize.
But that's OK, we've been preparing admirably by increasing our consumer debt.
Re:Come to DC! (Score:5, Interesting)
That being said, it wouldn't take too much to change it. Combine raising the retirement age with increasing the payroll taxes would do a lot to take care of the issue.
Raising the payroll taxes is just plain punitive though - especially for low income earners and the self employed. Raise them enough and you'll see a lot more tax planning to take advantage of the Sub-S corps like Edwards did or less reporting of that kind of income (a loss either way for the treasury). Raising the phaseout for payroll taxes (currently around 83K or so) would also help, but not as much as raising the payroll taxes.
"Means testing" is another option - if someone was wise enough to save for retirement we can penalize them for doing so. This probably wouldn't fly because one of Social Security's selling points is that if you pay in, you get to draw out. Remove that lock in and you'll loose support.
Probably the best bet is to raise the retirement age. We're already seeing people who are retired for as long or longer than they worked, and it's also not uncommon for people to work well into their 70's. The retirement age was initially set so that most people die before drawing it because most people were doing hard manual labor. These days, the nature of work has become more safe (desk jobs and even factory jobs are safer) and people live longer. I think that retirement age is currently at 67 or so. That could probably be raised. (Besides, you don't get old until you retire - look at the people you know and you can see it happen!)
Sorry to write so much. I don't know that there is a good answer. What will probably happen is that Bush wants to allow people to take a portion of their 14% Social Security tax and place it into a "private account", so he'll probably be able to get it by raising FICA 3% or so (split between the employee and the employer - the only ones who would really see this are the self-employeds).
Re:Come to DC! (Score:3, Insightful)
1. Become a citizen.
2. Not work in the U.S. and return home.
3. Stay and pay for the infrastructure that allows you to get to work and enjoy your life style.
I take issue with your misuse of my country's founding war cry, "taxed without representation". NO ONE HAS REPRESENTATION IN ANY COUNTRY THEY ARE NOT A CITIZEN.
If it so bad here in the U.S. why stay? It must be better than anywhere else. Even with the taxes.
I am
Re:Come to DC! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Come to DC! (Score:3, Informative)
hah! insecurity clearance! (Score:5, Informative)
All too often, the complaints about "we can't find workers" really translates into "we can't find workers willing to work at those wages" or "we can't find workers with good credit."
It takes 18-36 months for a clearance. If you have great credit, you can get an "interim clearance" which is a temporary one until the real clearance is done. If you have spotty to rotten credit, you can expect to get turned down. Security officers know that, so your credit score is more important in an interview than whether you have a brain.
Re:hah! insecurity clearance! (Score:4, Interesting)
The reason your "creditworthiness" plays a role in determining your clearance is because people with bad credit are more susceptible to exploitation by foreign operatives - the guy/gal who is in a really bad situation financially is more likely to succumb to monetary bribe.
Re:hah! insecurity clearance! (Score:4, Insightful)
The same is true about the lifestype polygraph. You can be a married father and banging strange men at rest stops on the side with no condom.... but as long as your spouse knows about it there is no problem as far as your employment status...
Blackmail only works on people with something to hide.
There's a bar to this (Score:3, Insightful)
In cases of embezzling, etc in corporate environments, how often is it the indebted indivual vs the greedy one? Look at big companies like Enron... once you've hit a certain bar - you have lots of money but for some reason can't get enough.
So yeah, perh
There's a reason for that. (Score:3, Informative)
Employees with low credit are usually more willing to sell company secrets for cash. It's a simple fact, demonstrated over and over again. Not because they're inherently evil employees or some other kneejerk reaction, but because the situations that got them a low credit score are precisely the ones that create a desperate need for lots of cash.
Now combine that situation with a government clearance, and you've moved from selling company confedential data to their competitors, into selling military secr
Re:hah! insecurity clearance! (Score:3, Funny)
Uh oh, there goes my clearance.
Re:Come to DC! (Score:4, Informative)
Not to cry foul with your comment, but last I checked, employers wanted you to already have said clearance. Is this still the case?
US Government security clearances (Score:3, Interesting)
Government contractors who create or handle classified information have to pay for a clearance for each employee that needs one, except for those who have had an equivalent or higher-level clearance in the previous 2 years.
The last I heard, from a job recruiter (YMMV), a SECRET clearance costs $80K and there's a 250K person waiting list. No wonder contractors will stop
How to get a security clearance. (Score:3, Interesting)
The process itself is painless:
1.) Get a job with a defence contractor.
2.) Fill out a detailed personal history. For some levels of clearance, people you know will probably be interviewed.
3.) You can usually get a provisional clearance within a week, unless there is shadiness in your past.
4.) Final clearance can take two to twelve months to come through.
OTOH, the military assigns a (usually) low
Re:Come to DC! (Score:4, Informative)
From my experience, security clearance requires a sponsor. If the company is hiring and needs somebody with clearance, they're not about to sponsor you (it's expensive and they have no experience with you and you might not qualify), so you'll need clearance to get the job.
But if you work for a company that has both secure and insecure contracts, when they need another employee with clearance they'll try to hire one or they'll sponsor a current employee.
Silicon Valley (Score:5, Interesting)
In other news, the unemployment rate in this area is declining because IT workers have given up trying to find work, and are leaving Santa Clara County in droves.
Thereby reinforcing the finding that 90% of statistics are worthless.
90% of statistics... (Score:4, Funny)
I thought for sure (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I thought for sure (Score:3, Insightful)
time for a nice warm bath... (Score:2)
Seriously though, is it really news that it's harder and harder to find, and keep, jobs in IT? Unless you speak Romanian or Hindi, that is.
being a technie myself... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:being a technie myself... (Score:3, Funny)
The cold makes the data move faster through the cables.
Re:being a technie myself... (Score:3, Funny)
Oh, wait, you're white? And you want to work? Sorry, you're right, we apparently don't want any of that.
Give me a break (Score:5, Insightful)
That's why I hate "IT" (Score:5, Informative)
And for the record, even though IT jobs are down, software engineering jobs are up. Especially in the Operating systems and Device Driver areas. If they didn't lump unskilled workers and skilled workers together in the same category they'd be able to tell the difference.
Re:That's why I hate "IT" (Score:3, Insightful)
People who use computers and people who make computers and computer software are both considerd IT workers. That's the difference.
(Rude Fuckin' Idiot)
Re:That's why I hate "IT" (Score:3, Interesting)
Ditch the management part, and you've got it. The quasi-management techies will remain unemployed. The ones that get their hands dirty and leave the scheduling to somebody else all have jobs.
The specs are relatively clear up front. You you email the specs to India and have the results back for pennies on the dollar.
That has to be the funniest thing I've read all day. If only it
Re:That's why I hate "IT" (Score:5, Funny)
I got interviewed by a newspaper reporter for one of these "man on the street" stories. When she asked "What do you do?" I said "I'm a computer programmer." Upon hearing that, her face lit up, and she said "Ah, IT!"
Sure enough, the caption under my picture in the paper said "<name>, IT worker".
I suppose if I hunted her down and killed her, the resulting story would be "Reporter Murdered by Enraged IT Worker"...
Re:That's why I hate "IT" (Score:3, Insightful)
This is why I tell laypeople I'm a "rocket scientist" rather than a "computer programmer/software engineer" or whatever. My official title is "Scientific Software Engineer", but the systems and computer work part is easy. The tough part of my job comes from the maths required to do map projection, end member spectral deconvolution, principal component analysis, and calculating ephemerides. I couldn't design a spacecraft to save my life, but I spend way more brain cycles thinking about space science conc
So get a job in another field (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm tired of reading "poor me! I used to make 100,000 a year because I knew Lotus 1-2-3, and now the only work I can get is data entry for minimum wage" stories.
We all know how it works. The IT industry is rife with deskilling. What is today a marketable skill (I don't know, configuring LANs by hand, for instance) is tomorrow a useless one (autosensing switches and DHCP, etc). New technologies are constantly being created to replace IT workers.
So if you want to stay with the computers, you have to constantly acquire new skills to stay a step ahead. People who think they can just sit back and live the fat life and let their A+ certification take care of them are dead wrong and deserve what they get.
Re:So get a job in another field (Score:5, Insightful)
People have been spouting your brand of nonsense for decades now. The difference (now) is that not only must one retrain constantly to stay in IT, but that one faces the likelihood that one must retrain one's self to work OUTSIDE of IT, since the IT jobs are going away.
If I could pass two lessons on to you, son, it would be:
1. Macroeconomics matters. 2. Don't buy the CS degree nonsense that you "learned how to learn" and that "any good computer scientist can pick up a language in a week". The job market doesn't buy either one of those aphorisms.
A faulty baseline (Score:4, Insightful)
A need for innovation (Score:5, Insightful)
Unless we see something new, IT jobs are going the way of plumbers. Every town will have a few and if a company needs IT support they'll call one out. The rest of the time their computers will just work.
Re:A need for innovation (Score:3, Insightful)
Or it is the real Y2K bug. Remember the late 90's had lots and lots of companies feverishly attempting to fix old codebases and hardware. Equipment and software was upgraded ahead of the normal schedule (helping to lead to the boom times). Alongside of this, the internet started becoming commercially applied.
After Y2K passed uneventfully, and after the internet bubble burst, all of these companies were running hardware a
Re:A need for innovation (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't think that is a good comparison. I true, honest trades-person is rare and invaluable.
Re:A need for innovation (Score:3, Insightful)
There has been inovation that has been going at near the same rate. Issues like GUI wern't a leap just an evalutional change. First you had command Line, then went to hotkey (Like Word Perfect). Then Menu Driven (Much like Novel or Turbo language). Then the menu allowed split screens and mouse support like Deskview then they started using serious GUI that allowed the windows to be moved more detailed. (Also the Mac has been using GUI s
IT is way to wide of a field. (Score:4, Insightful)
Well many of the people I met in the late 90's... (Score:5, Insightful)
They knew what the interweb was and could spell HTML yet, somehow, commanded over 50k a year.
I was glad to see the "people rake" come through and get rid of some of the dead weight.
Re:Well many of the people I met in the late 90's. (Score:3, Interesting)
The boom has been over for quite awhile, and there have been plenty of stories right here on slashdot (as well as many other information sources) showing job trends for "IT" and "Software Engineers" have generally been pretty dismal over intervals as recent as Jan-June 2004.
It's my *assumption* that the vast majority of people who were drawn into the tech boom and weren't particularly qualified have been out of the industry since, at most, late 2002. Crazy internet petfood sell
New Zealand IT Worker Shortage (Score:4, Insightful)
Of course, you have to deal with a complete lack of anything resembling broadband, which is probably why they have the shortage in the first place; no techie wants to move somewhere 256kbps is considered broadband and worth paying $50/month for.
Re:New Zealand IT Worker Shortage (Score:4, Insightful)
So stay away! Believe NardofDoom's claims about our lack of broadband! Etc! You'd just be making it (very slightly) harder for me to find a job, anyway.
Yet still "labor shortage" claims (Score:5, Interesting)
And pro-work-visa lobbyists, such as ITAA [itaa.org], still claim there is a "shortage" of IT people.
Mod me down, but it has to be said (Score:3, Interesting)
Personally, I think the country is going to hell in the proverbial handbasket, which is one of the reasons I choose not to procreate. If life got intolerable enough, I can always say "Screw you guys" and check out. I have lived a good life and have absolutly no fear of any after life.
But with a family, well, you just can't check out while your children still depend on you.
I know, I know, that's the way it's always been. But for me, particularly in this society, it still gives me strength to know that if life gives me the old "slings and arrows of outrageous fortune" trip I can always say "Fuck that shit" and make the Big Trip.
So, for those of you who don't have kids, please, don't do it. Contrary to popular opinion, procreation is one of the most selfish things one can do.
Think of the future. Globalization. That means a leveling of resource use and wages, and let me tell you something: yours are going to go down more than Habibi's in the Middle East is going to go up. The powers-that-be have mastered the art of groupthink and know how to sway popular opinion that the power will only get more oppressive.
Re:Mod me down, but it has to be said (Score:5, Insightful)
I hope thinking like yours doesn't become a trend. We need optimism and ambition, not this pessimistic crap. Life is what you make of it, and there are always more opportunities than there are people. Within reason, what you want is almost always within your reach if you're willing to work hard enough. If we go to hell in a handbasket it's going to be because people who think like you will take us there. Fortunatly I think you're in the vast minority and could probably do with some anti-depressants.
Some truth to it... (Score:3, Insightful)
Too many people have this vision of the future with a beautiful wife and perfect kids, a leave-it-to-beaver life that greets you when you get home from work
I'm not gay, but I'm not a breeder.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Cost of relationship a factor as well. (Score:3, Insightful)
We looked at how we might do it, and as with college and our 1st home, it came down to doing it by ourselves, on our own, with no support structure. We realized this would put
Re:Mod me down, but it has to be said (Score:3, Insightful)
Procreating is selfish. It used to be more obvious though, when the kids had to work on the farm to support old parents, today it is not necessarily as obvious, but it is still true - people are afraid to be alone when they are older, so they have kids.
Personally, for over a decade now I have been thinking on this subject. Quite a few things you ended with in your head, like for example that I never wanted to be born. Too bad it was
Double Your Salary!! * (Score:3, Interesting)
I own a small it company (Score:5, Informative)
At first I chalked it up to people who were lying about already being employed but after talking to them on the phone I'm not so sure. I'm near Washington and our IT scene isn't as bleak as other places so this may be a local trend.
Re:I own a small it company (Score:5, Insightful)
I have been offered literally triple my salery if I were willing to move/commute over an hour away -- or move to another state all together.
I've turned them down. I've turned them all down. Why? Because I live in an "ok" area. I live about a 20 min WALK from work. My hours are of my own choosing (mostly) and I enjoy a huge amount of freedom with my employer.
I actually get to help RAISE my kids -- not just let my wife or some hired 'day care' raise them. Our children have never seen a 'baby sitter' other than grandma. They've never been picked up from school by anyone other than my wife or myself. You cant pay me enough to give that up.
Re:I own a small it company (Score:3, Insightful)
Smartest thing I have ever read on Slashdot. Other young fathers should heed what this guy is saying. When you're sitting on your deathbed, you won't regret making $50k instead of $100k in 2004, but you will regret it if yo
Another story (Score:3, Interesting)
Today, he is living near Santa Cruz in a small 1000 square foot house costing $2500 per month. He has two kids and pulling in $40k per year. He cannot even buy a house since even the junky houses are a half-million -> high mortgage payment.
With his situation, more than likely, if I lose my job here, I would have to move and leave Colorado even with the upside of have very little debt - car payment only and house is paid off. Washington DC is doing good but cost of living is awful.
What IT Job Shortage? (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh well, I have a good job now, and I got it because all of the idiots out there made me look so much better. Hell, the guy that I interviewed with left because he didn't know what he was doing, and now I do his job and mine. Maybe if there were more qualified people, I would have a new coworker... because we are looking, we just cannot find anyone who is competent.
Re:What IT Job Shortage? (Score:4, Interesting)
The problem with the high unemployment rate is that _anyone_ will react on any job offer. It takes a lot of time for a company to sift through all this reactions and seperate the good few from the abundant bad.
A hint; don't go doing nothing but take a low income job and study and look for a job in the mean time. Companies don't trust long periods between jobs as I found out the soft way (I was hired just before it all came tumbling down, lucky me, but they didn't like it).
Every Indication this will get worse (Score:3, Interesting)
This is all really a massive program of corporate welfare. Corporations pay _nothing_ for these immigration rights that have considerable economic value.
The hypocrites in the left don't care because they expect immigrants to vote democratic in time. The hypocrites on the right are being bought with promises of federal funds for faith based charities and educational vouchers.
Bush-ism (Score:5, Insightful)
Woo-Hoo, that guy should just go to community college, then he'll be able to find another great job. Isn't it so great when everything is so black and white?
$30 an hour? Whaaaaaaa (Score:5, Insightful)
He should have his 9 year old set up a bank account so he can avoid the check-cashing fee.
If his wife can work they ought to just move back to Warren and he can commute to Akron, Kent, Canton or the Cleveland area. A three bedroom rental at $1000 and suddenly he's saving $700 / month.
The whole economy is too darwinian, future generations can't defend themselves if they haven't been born yet, and today's financial institutions just do whatever Washington will let them get away with. Shareholders VS society at-large. Temporal mindsets suck.
This guy should be happy he's got a wife and kids. Try PLC or truck driving or become an RN. There 'Service Economy' is inescapable - so he should be happy with what he's got. Sorry to be bitter, but I got my own problems, and $30 an hour aint one of 'em.
'There is only so much room in the economy for business owners - leaving the rest of us destined to being someone else's Em-Ploy-Ee.'
~ Ted Kaczynski, The Unabomber Manifesto
Re:$30 an hour? Whaaaaaaa (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:$30 an hour? Whaaaaaaa (Score:4, Insightful)
Are you saying we should welcome this new 3rd-world life-style? (Please, no overlord puns.) I'll have my kids practice by walking to school barefoot in the snow. It will be the *reverse* of what we heard:
"In my day my parents drove me to school in a big fat warm SUV. None of this newfangled barefoot stuff."
Re:$30 an hour? Whaaaaaaa (Score:4, Informative)
Probably because he cannot sell it for what it's worth and trading it in would only drive him deeper into the hole?
I've been right where this guy is. I could *not sell* a car that I couldn't afford anymore. The finance company rejected several very qualified people. Why? They make more reposessing the vehicle and selling it at auction.
d) Renting a Motel room is stupid, but I will say the article attempted to explain it as his bad credit keeps him from renting/homeowning, and that is understandable to an extent, but I'd wager that statement was only relevant with respect to the types of homes they would deem acceptable, they probably could suck it up and live in a lease below their prior standards until back on their feet.
Hah. I've been here, and it *sucks* especially when you get hit with $50 "application fees" (per person) only to be told "No, sorry, your PERFECT rental history and good job don't matter.. you have unpaid utility bills.."
Bad credit isn't always caused by people getting into credit cards. I got slapped with thousands in medical bills after being hit by a car (hit & run) without insurance. I couldn' afford to pay, so guess who has a bunch of collections on his credit report? Yup, me.
Just because someone has bad credit doesn't mean that they were trying to live outside their means.
Re:$30 an hour? Whaaaaaaa (Score:3, Insightful)
I'd wager that shit like that is keeping a lot of people in poverty. I've been in ChexSystems, over a small bounced check that I didn't know about (was changing accounts) - US Bank REFUSED to tell me exactly how much the amount was. I eventually got an exact payoff amount and paid it immediately, only to have a branch manager practically l
IT: The Only Industry Created to Destroy Itself (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:IT: The Only Industry Created to Destroy Itself (Score:3, Interesting)
Will medicine eventually destroy quality of life as the number of retirees encroaches on the number of workers? Pushing the retirement age higher, taxes higher, benefits lower.. Will viagra save the world by allowing pensioners to continue produci
Re:IT: The Only Industry Created to Destroy Itself (Score:3, Informative)
I think this fact complements the one that a lot of people have been remarking on - the fact that a lot of people who had "IT" jobs during the market boom really shouldn't have, due to lack of real ability.
I think a lot of those people have the attitude of "I paid all that money for these degrees and certifications. Now that I have gotten these degrees and certifications, I'm done, right?".
99% job placement rate my ass (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't think we can blame the dot com bubble bursting on the serious lack of IT jobs in the country...outsourcing may be to blame, but that's typically helpdesk sort of work. Also, the guy that posted about DC having an array of IT jobs...believe it. Northern Virginia has a surplus of IT jobs most of the time...I grew up there and hopped around to a number of great positions even before school. I would've gone back if I didn't hate the area so much.
Good luck with the job search to all you unemployed out there.
Lots of IT work in London, as well as Dubai (Score:3, Interesting)
Too many "web designers" (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm not sure if they're getting work, but it seems that a lot of them are former programmers, PC techs, startup employees, graphic designers, teachers, construction workers, sanitation workers, pimps, etc. I keep wondering why so many people are leaving other careers to go to "web design."
Re:Too many "web designers" (Score:3, Insightful)
I'd suggest going into law. IT people come and
York, PA ... I live there (Score:3, Informative)
The article talks about the "temporary IT job" this guy has in York, PA. Guess what, I've got one of those jobs too (also in York). I have no idea why that guy would move TO York to get an IT job, it's all crappy temp work. Chances are the guy is working for Harley Davidson, they're one of the only employers of IT people in York and they hire a lot of temporary people.
Seriously, if this guy moved here for a job, I'm real scared, because I'm getting ready to move AWAY to get one.
Bing Crosby said it best in 1932 (Score:3, Insightful)
I was building a dream.
And so I followed the mob
When there was earth to plow
Or guns to bear
I was always there
Right on the job.
They used to tell me
I was building a dream
With peace and glory ahead.
Why should I be standing in line
Just waiting for bread?
Once I built a railroad
I made it run
Made it race against time.
Once I built a railroad
Now it's done
Brother, can you spare a dime?
Once I built a tower up to the sun
Brick and rivet and lime.
Once I built a tower,
Now it's done.
Brother, can you spare a dime?
I warned you. [downside.com] On 2000-04-14, I wrote "Today begins the Second Great Depression". Was I wrong?
The problem is the workforce (Score:3, Interesting)
You need to stop doing what YOU think is cool (Score:3, Insightful)
Saboteur
comes from the weaving EXPERT craftsmen who threw their shoes (Sabot) into the Jaquard powerlooms to break them because automation put them out of work. These were the best in their field.
And just like them it really doesn't matter how impressive your skills are if they are impractical or inefficient or not in any meaningful economic demand.
What the un/underemployed need to do is figure out what new set of tasks they can do or learn to do that will allow them to live more or less the way they are accustomed. Imagine if instead of an IT jock you were a farmer or a UAW line worker. Would you wander around looking for the tiny handful of farming jobs or auto assembly line jobs that were still around?
Today in IT there are a few categories that are hiring. This includes security, privacy, IT audit, business controls and corporate compliance, Sarbanes-Oxley, HIPPA. These are the jobs that still need sharp people in an advisory role frequently in an interpersonal setting. And any job that requires a physical presence will never be outsourced.
Quite Your Whining!!! (Score:3, Funny)
Duhh... (Score:3, Interesting)
But then it doesn't help that the IT field has attracted so many idiots. At a previous job I was interviewing for a Jr. UNIX Admin, and we had a guy in for a second interview and my boss loved him. I was there for a tech interview--found out this guy knew nothing--yet demanded a large salary--just cause he somehow managed to get a Master's in CS. I even quized him on some basic things, and all I usually got in response was a blank stare. *sigh*
Have a non-tech backup career (Score:3, Insightful)
We paid off all our credit cards and are about to payoff the last car loan we ever plan on having. I wouldn't have a car loan now if they paid me interest. We save cash every month and pay extra on our mortgage. We do it by not living extravegantly, shopping at discount stores, and not going out all the time. It's not easy, but just something like packing your lunch can save a bunch of money every month. Many of my co-workers eat out every day, that's between seven and ten dollars a day.
On top of that I have a non-tech back up career I work part-time. Living off of it full time wouldn't be fun but we wouldn't lose the house.
Lot of young people are killing themselves with credit cards. And now days being late on one can raise interest and fees on all the others. It's insane. Credit card companies are modern day robber barons. Cut them up, pay them off and close those accounts! That way you're not tempted.
Mr Pacman and his lodging. (Score:4, Funny)
He and his family are well known to the staff, and as a result they tend to leave extra power-pills under the bed to get them through the night.
Re:Nation Wide Problem (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Nation Wide Problem (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Nation Wide Problem (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Nation Wide Problem (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Nation Wide Problem (Score:3, Informative)
In Richmond VA, a couple of hours south on I-95 frm DC, it seems like most hiring is being done by contractors. Because Richmond salaries are generally lower than ones to the north or in the Research Triangle, it doesn't seem like off-shoring has taken off. I suspect that the
Re:Nation Wide Problem (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't buy bread; buy flour, eggs, and yeast and learn to bake your own bread. Don't buy pre-packaged deli meat; buy a big enconomy-size roast, cook it yourself, and slice it up. Don't buy potato chips, buy a big bag of potatos and a gallon of vegatable oil. You get the idea...
Tomatos too expensive? Plant a garden! Even an apartment dweller can raise a significant crop of fresh vegatables in big flowerpots. Go to the library and check out a book on box gardening.
Most importantly, learn how to shop! For example, every supermarket I've ever been in marks down it's meats on the sell-by date. They'll sell it for a few cents on the dollar rather than thowing it out. If you know your store's routine, you can be there waiting when they mark it down. Then, take it straight home and throw it in the freezer. The other thing is to take advantage of coupons and loss leaders! Loss leaders are great if you have the discipline to go in and ONLY buy what's on sale. You may have to go to 3 or 4 stores to get everything you need, but you save a ton of money. Clipping coupons may be a pain in the ass, but it's worth it -- my wife will routinely spend $100 at the grocery store and get $60 of it back in coupons and promotions.
Let them Eat Cake!! (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Nation Wide Problem (Score:5, Interesting)
However, when you take someone who has earned X dollars for ten+ years, let them go and instantly make it impossible for them to get a job except by moving around, and that job only pay 1/10th of what X did, then something is seriously wrong. Now if this happened over say 10+ years that would be bad enough (like the manufacturing jobs) but this happened over two years. That is horrible.
Yes people should learn to save. I remember saving up all week to take my girlfiend out and get breadsticks on the weekend. If I skipped a few meals during the week I could actually afford extra cheese for both of us.
However, when someone with a family looses their job they don't instantly sell their house, all their cars (at a loss mind you) and start farming for food. Normally they will try for a long time to work in their profession in their area, then they will start to lower their standards over time to work just about anywhere, and then at last be forced to make very tough decisions. I have seen many of my friends have to make these tough decisions after being out of work a long time. Thankfully most have found a new job, but some more are about to loose their jobs now. I will say that the difference between now and a few years ago is that people know that the there are no jobs now. They didn't know that a few years ago.
I can tell you that NOBODY wants to hire an I.T. person for another profession. Their fear is that the economy will turn upward again and the person will quit. I have seen a few of my friends try and get jobs a Walmart and others. This has NEVER worked. So they are stuck.
So yes I agree that people should save whenever possible. But for those 35-55 year olds out there that have been "downsized", it is not reasonable to expect them to become farmers overnight. Again as I mentioned above, today is different than two years ago. Today, if you have an I.T. job, you better be saving like mad.
The sad part of all this is that if Kerry would have been smart, he would have played this issue up and made this his core issue. In my opinion he didn't and that is why he lost. Well that and the fact that his past haunted him.
Re:Nation Wide Problem (Score:3, Insightful)
So yes I agree that people should save whenever possible. But for those 35-55 year olds out there that have been "downsized", it is not reasonable to expect them to become farmers overnight.
It's all good for the upper income types and the propertied Americans and the megacorporations. As long as they have the advantage of power, wealth, and other advantages, these ups and downs and even economic depressions don't really affect them too drastically. In fact, profits are higher than ever. The era of sl
Clinton and Kerry (Score:4, Funny)
Well, the first statement applies to Clinton perfectly, as does the second one to Kerry. But I'll be a monkey's uncle if I'd think that they looked alike.
Re:Bush (Score:5, Informative)
Understand now why tax cuts done irresponsibily lose jobs?
Re:Bush (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Save, save, save (Score:5, Insightful)
"Instead of living in an apartment, which in the same area will cost less than renting an entire house, and saving up this family is now crammed in a motel room!"
You're blaming the guy because he chose to rent? Contrary to what many people seem to believe, buying a house is not always a smart financial move. First, I'm glad that you can rent "an entire house" cheaper than you can rent an apartment in your area, but I think you'll find that in many parts of the U.S. that isn't the case. Second, if you're not going to be able to stay in a house for a period of several years before you try to sell it, you can wind up losing quite a bit of money. You have to pay a real estate agent, loan fees, taxes, insurance, maintenance, utilities that might be included in rent (e.g. water and garbage), etc. If the selling price of your house hasn't gone up considerably since you bought it, it can be cheaper to rent. Any financial planner can tell you that. If your employment future in the area is murky, you might be better off renting.Re:Save, save, save (Score:3, Insightful)
While I certainly agree that buying a house is not always a smart move, and I wouldn't suggest it (for instance) to a 22-year-old guy who's still sowing his wild oats, it's still one of the best foundations for wealth-building for the average family, especially if you can build equity by paying a little extra and pay it off earlier than 30 years (~25% extra wi
Re:ALL DEMURRALS ASIDE (Score:4, Informative)
Not True. The problem has existed for sometime. http://www.factcheck.org/article225.html [factcheck.org]
Article Quoted:
In fact, tax experts say the incentive has been there for decades - since there has been a corporate income tax. It's not Bush's doing.
The incentive exists because the US taxes corporations at rates higher than most other countries. According to the Institute for International Economics, the effective rate for US corporations was just over 30% in 2002, while mainland China's effective corporate rate was only 11.3%, Britain's 18.2%, Mexico's 15.1% and Indonesia's a miniscule 0.2%.
Re:ALL DEMURRALS ASIDE (Score:3, Insightful)
Let's suppose Bush RAISED rather than lowered the outsourcing tax... how would this have helped?
Big IT companies, recognizing that they compete on a global, rather than national basis, would have simply closed out their US headquarters and started doing business out of Europe. The IT jobs still would have gone overseas, AND we would have lost even more jobs and revenue.
By lowering the outsourcing tax
Re:mod this parent up (Score:3, Insightful)
Even the Democratic Leadership Council agrees:
What happened? [ndol.org]