EFF Reviews HDTV PVR Solution for Mac 147
enrico_suave points out this "PVRBlog post about EFF's Review of Elgato's EyeTV 500, an HDTV solution for the Mac. Well, a very speedy dual-processor G5 Mac, apparently. The Electronic Frontier Foundation has been doing a lot of important work defending our online and digital rights including opposing the dreaded FCC mandated broadcast flag (cue boos and hisses) Elgato and Plextor also have a Standard Definition homebrew PVR solution with an EyeTV and ConvertX PVR bundle (Wired review)." (See also this earlier review from a Slashdot reader.)
RTFA? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:RTFA? (Score:1)
Bert
Am I missing something here? (Score:3, Insightful)
On Monday, comcast will install a $10 a month PVR with dual tuner and one that can record 15 hours of HDTV and 60 of regular TV. Why should I invest in a dual G5 power mac and an additional $350 to basically get the same functionality.
Re:Am I missing something here? (Score:1, Funny)
Re:Am I missing something here? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Am I missing something here? (Score:1)
Perhaps because you'll want to record TV shows for more than the ($cost_of_Power_mac + 350) / 10 months.
Re:Am I missing something here? (Score:3, Insightful)
Come on, I'm sure whoever wrote the article wasn't expecting you to immediately run out and plunk down a couple of thousand dollars for a Mac just to use this peripheral.
Re:Am I missing something here? (Score:4, Funny)
1. If you get Comcast's PVR, Comcast controls your PVR and you do what they tell you.
2. Comcast isn't worldwide, last time I checked.
3. Ridiculously excessive, far more expensive hardware is way cooler.
4. I could hook up a RAID array and record a metric gazillion hours of HDTV! What now, Mr. 15 hours?
5. Comcast is the devil and they will kill your dog. If you don't have a dog, they will give you one for the express purpose of killing it.
6. Because I say so! Buy this! Do it! Do it now!
7. ???
8. Profit!!!!
mission option: the mac supports video editing to insert sex with a mare into all your favorite shows.
Re:Am I missing something here? (Score:1)
Same Functionality? (Score:1)
Well, since the article is from the EFF, I bet this one does things that the comcast won't let you do, such as:
- archive programs
- move programs to a different device
- save programs as long as you like
- record whatever you want (despite the broadcast flag)
(If you want to send me a dual g5 to test on, I'll probably think up a few others)
Granted, $350 (or $4000) > $5/mo, but this is true for Media Center PCs as well, and they are so afraid of the broadcast flag, yo
I have it and it's AWESOME (Score:1)
Re:I have it and it's AWESOME (Score:1)
Re:I have it and it's AWESOME (Score:2)
Re:I have it and it's AWESOME (Score:1)
Re:Am I missing something here? (Score:4, Insightful)
However, suppose that some major media properties persuade Apple to rewrite their firewire drivers, necessitating a a similar driver update from ElGato. The question then becomes: Is ElGato legally required to cripple its software in the course of this update? Could one reinstate compatibility with the old, pre broadcast flag driver by rewriting portions of the Darwin source?
Perhaps the best solution would be to build a Linux PVR server, possibly adding on a suitable mac client, a la vlc. After all, Linus Torvalds doesn't own an online media shop.
Re:Am I missing something here? (Score:2)
Well, not everyone in this world lives in your country.
Lots of people take it for granted that PVRss are available everywhere. They aren't. Here in Canada, I have never been able to buy a Tivo up here, because Tivo has never sold their devices up here. Why? Who the hel
Re:Am I missing something here? (Score:1)
No shit: There are blogs that get more readers in a month than the entire labor-force population of Canada. No kidding, honest-to-God blogs.
I've got nothing personal against Canada. It's just that it kinda makes me scratch my head when I hear somebody ask, "Why is X available in America but not available in Canada?" That's a big "duh," as far as I'm concerned. Itt
Re:Am I missing something here? (Score:2)
That's not the reason. Tivo at one time licensed their set-top box technology to other companies, including the likes of Sony. Sony already has channels here in Canada, and could have put boxes into their Sony Stores (which are in virtually every major mall in Canada
Re:Am I missing something here? (Score:2)
B) Because soon HDTV receivers will have Broadcast Flag
C) Because Comcast is evil.
Now why you'd have a Mac do it is beyond me. I'd just build an HDTV capable MythTV setup and have a lot more control over what goes into my system.
Re:Am I missing something here? (Score:1)
Re:Am I missing something here? (Score:2)
Me, I'd just grab a torrent.
Re:Am I missing something here? (Score:3, Interesting)
I've used their USB product for a while and it uses the same software. It is much less finicky than the corre
Re:Am I missing something here? (Score:1)
In various places around the world, there are groups of people that call themselves "polar bear." As far as I know, the tradition mainly goes back to Scandinavian immigrants to the United States; whether they brought the tradition over with them from their homelands or just made it up on the spot to mess with their new neighbors remains a mystery.
The mission of these "polar bear clubs" is to go swimming in icy rivers and lakes, usually on New Year's Day. For example, on New Year's Day
No G5 needed now... (Score:5, Informative)
-Aaron-
Re:No G5 needed now... (Score:2, Insightful)
Aldo, Elgato's site says Dolby Digital 5.1 sound output is only possible on a dual G5. Does anyone know if any other machines (esp. an iMac G5) can simply pass the DD stream somehow?
Thanks
Justin
Re:No G5 needed now... (Score:2, Insightful)
Rick
Re:No G5 needed now... (Score:1)
In fact I don't think a 1.25GHz 12" was ever produced. He probably has a 15" or 17". Mea culpa!!
Justin
Re:No G5 needed now... (Score:1)
Re:No G5 needed now... (Score:2)
Re:Am I missing something here? (Score:2)
Needless to say most Mac, and TiVo, users expect better...
Re:Am I missing something here? (Score:1)
Get a network card, and hook your tivo up to that. Mine's been doing that for a couple years now, and the only down side is that it won't let me purchase PPV with the remote anymore. I have to go to their web site or call them to buy anything. Not a big deal, since I very rarely buy PPV.
You could also get a Vonage account for about $18/month, although you have to configure the tivo to only try 9600 baud.
Re:Am I missing something here? (Score:1)
Yeah, check out www.9thtee.com [9thtee.com] for lots of tivo related hacks.
iTele (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.defyne.org/dvb/ [defyne.org]
Re:iTele (Score:2)
Will it be able to connect to iHome? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Will it be able to connect to iHome? (Score:2)
Re:Will it be able to connect to iHome? (Score:4, Insightful)
Something like it may debut at the Keynote next week though.
Re:Will it be able to connect to iHome? (Score:2)
I'm illegal in the US (Score:1)
Misread (Score:2)
Comments (Score:4, Insightful)
Why do you need such a great CPU? The article says it's because the hidef MPEG2 content is decoded in software. Huh? I though graphics cards started doing MPEG2 assist and later complete MPEG2 decoding years ago? It that feature just not in the drivers, or was it dropped due to cost and faster CPUs? Guess you should budget in some more for an MPEG2 decoder card, but they are not easy to find anymore (at least not as easy as they were), they tend to require passthrough (I've never seen pass-through DVI, and would it handle dual link for 30" screens?), etc. Seems like a big problem.
Only an antenna? If this thing can record HD and SD content (as long as it's digital), why not give it an HDMI connector so I could record off equiptment that has HDMI out? Or give it a DVI in for recording off that? Just an antenna seems.... measly.
Interesting though. The CPU problem is not as bad as it sounds considering how many people would currently want to use their computer to timeshift full glory HD content. If you have the TV and such for that and you can afford this box, you can probably afford a computer to play the file (or at least an MEPG2 decoder card).
Re:Comments (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Comments (Score:2)
Everything old is new again.
Re:Comments (Score:1)
Re:Comments (Score:2)
Didn't think so.
Re:Comments (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Comments (Score:2)
Depends on which card you're talking about, the old mpeg2 decoder cards that we used to play DVDs on Pentium 90s did everything. You fed it an mpeg2 stream and it did everything. You had to route your video out into its input, then hooked your monitor up to the dvd card so it co
Re:Comments (Score:2)
Because progressive full-res HDTV is 12 times as much data as what your DVD playback feature on your card supports?
Re:Comments (Score:2)
Re:Comments (Score:4, Insightful)
And what is your Mac going to do with a >100MB/s uncompressed video stream? Oh, and HDMI is often encrypted.
Re:Comments (Score:1)
Re:Comments (Score:2)
Re:Comments (Score:1)
Can you.. (Score:2)
Can you...
export the HDTV recordings to other media?
archive the HDTV recordings?
edit out portions of the HDTV recordings you want to discard or save?
Re:Can you.. (Score:3, Funny)
2) Answered in the article, and isn't it the same as #1?
3) Answered in the article.
Amazing what 3rd grade reading skills will do for you. And if you're still too lazy to read it - YES to all those questions because its all just MPEG2 after all.
Re:Can you.. (Score:1)
note to self, express reality with more
Re:Can you.. (Score:1)
Re:Can you.. (Score:1)
GNU Radio (Score:1, Offtopic)
Bad Moderation! VERY on topic. (Score:2)
OK, will it work under Linux? (Score:1)
The price is a little steep, but with accellerated playback on NVidia cards under X, it would rock on most recent Athlon systems. (2600+>)
Re:OK, will it work under Linux? (Score:2)
I have one of their older, non-HD tuner setups. It is much more user friendly than MythTV and is does save as standard mpeg-2, DV, etc.
Dual G5 requirement should be improved (Score:5, Informative)
A dual G5 requirement for smooth HDTV playback is a big problem. You should be able to easily do this with a midrange G4 system.
The problem is that Apple has not opened the API for the MPEG2 acceleration available in most of the video chips in Macs. ( The equivalent of DxVA in Windows, or XvMC in XFree86 ). In the x86 world, this takes the CPU requirement down from ~ 2.4GHz P4 to ~ 800MHz P3.
Apple's DVD player uses the MPEG2 acceleration, but they don't allow others to use it. So, we're stuck with extremely high CPU requirements of dec oding those hi-res HDTV files.
Re:Dual G5 requirement should be improved (Score:2)
Re:Dual G5 requirement should be improved (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Dual G5 requirement should be improved (Score:3, Insightful)
20 miles across the bay should be pretty good for reception.. not too many obstructions.
Most stations broadcast from Mt. Sutro, and all locals but KNTV (NBC 11/12) are UHF.
I have had good results with are the Radio Shack Double Bowtie indoor antenna (it's not carried in-store
Re:Dual G5 requirement should be improved (Score:3, Informative)
That is a marketing lie which was commonly told a few years ago. There are HD tuner cards that specifically include hardware decoding on the card (not the video card) which people have used successfully in less powerful PC's. But using DxVA from a video card doesn't buy you much if you are using a Fusion card or some other software decoding solution.
Also it is worth noting that although Apple's DVD player uses MPEG2 acc
Re:Dual G5 requirement should be improved (Score:3, Informative)
Actually, No.. DxVA is what makes the CPU requirements reasonable, even with the software decode products. The 2.4GHz -> 800MHz was specifically addressing DxVA offload of HDTV MPEG2 decode.
I have two MyHD cards and two FusionHDTV cards. The MyHD cards have an onboard MPEG2 decoder and they display the HDTV output directly from the receiver card - not through your video card. It does the complete MPEG2 decode in hardware, so the
Re:Dual G5 requirement should be improved (Score:5, Informative)
I know they claim that. What I was reporting is that it is a lie. I had a 700 MHz Athlon which was originally claimed to be sufficient for the Fusion I card (using DxVA) and it was not. I upgraded to a 1500 Athlon and finally the 2400+ which is sufficient for software decoding with DvXA assist. Without DxVA you get a more stable picture but it has to throw out every other scan line. I actually prefer that picture generally because it doesn't have the artifacts that you get with DxVA.
If someone has an older box with a sub 1 GHz processor he will need to get a MyHD card to get good results. I wouldn't recommend Fusion cards to anyone with less than a 2 GHz processor. I am using the computer monitor. Maybe the picture from the DVI port gives better results with less CPU.
It has been reported elsewhere in the comments that dual 1 GHz G4 Mac will produce good results with EyeTV 500. If that is the case then the results are not so starkly different. I'm sure the software is less finicky because I have and use EyeTV (I just use it with the EyeTV USB but it is the same software). It doesn't restart the Mac just because I commit the mistake of running VLC or some other video program. In fact on the Mac I have the option of having multiple programs running at the same time without causing a crash.
Re:Dual G5 requirement should be improved (Score:2)
I have had Fusion cards for almost two years, and I originally used it with a 1GHz P3. The HD playback with DxVA acceleration was g
Re:Dual G5 requirement should be improved (Score:2)
I don't get good reception (Score:1)
The broadcast flag is a Good Thing (Score:2, Interesting)
Times have changed since the days when VCRs were introduced. Back then, we had a few channels to choose from, and even fewer good programs. E.g., there were 2 or 3 sci-fi shows a week and if they were shown at the wrong timeslot you were SOL. Worse, video rentals hadn't been invented and tapes of TV shows even less. So back then, recording TV shows for time-shifting was quite useful.
Nowadays, the good shows come out on DVDs which you can rent from the corner store
Sloooow torrent! (Score:2)
interfaces to hardware accel (Score:2)
What exactly does this mean? Does OSX not export an API for 3rd party software to leverage video card's hardware?
Re:interfaces to hardware accel (Score:1)
There is No Reason For an FCC Mandate of Flags (Score:1, Insightful)
MythTV on OSX - Soon (Score:3, Informative)
I'm not sure how close Myth is to working completely on OSX, but I don't doubt that once it's working on OSX, it will be a formidable entry into the world of PVR software for this operating system.
QuickTime MPEG-2 Playback Component. (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm somewhat interested whether playback using Apple's QuickTime MPEG-2 Playback Component [apple.com] makes a significant difference here. It's only $30 CDN ($19.95 US -- I guess they haven't changed their pricing since the Canadian dollar gained on the US dollar), and doesn't require QuickTime Pro, so I imagine a non-dual G5 user who wanted to use this system to watch their captured video could just buy this.
I'm tempted to buy this to test it out and post the results here. Does anyone here have the MPEG-2 playback add-on for QuickTime who can comment on this?
Yaz.
Re:QuickTime MPEG-2 Playback Component. (Score:2)
EFF 500MB file vs. QuickTime MPEG-2 Playback (Score:2)
OS X 10.3.7
1.5Ghz PB
1GB RAM
Finder.... restarts if one hits "play" on preview window
QT... opens huge yyyyy x 1080 window, no audio, no video, crashes, sends report to Apple
iDVD... can't import the file
iMovie... starts to import the file, then interrupts import
VLC Player... works, but image choppy when camera pans. Still, they do a lot better than Apple. Paused image quality is amazing.
Cheers,
OT: Anyone use Interact-Tv Telly? (Score:1)
Does anyone have one, or know of any reviews / comparisons?
Re:Broadcast flag (Score:3, Insightful)
Glad I live in Europe.
Re:Broadcast flag (Score:3, Funny)
"Glad I live in Europe"
Why? Because we are next in line after Australia?
Re:Broadcast flag (Score:1)
Re:Broadcast flag (Score:1)
lately me and my dad have been researching this thing they are calling Freeview, basicly you buy this box and you get extra channels no cost.
After much much digging we finally found the flaw, 99% of the boxes you find are all actually Sky boxes, its the sky design, just with a different packaging. Now, normally when people use these boxes they connect them to their terrestial aerial, or even their cable, and these boxes decode the signals.
This is all fine and dandy unless one of two thing
Re:Broadcast flag (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Broadcast flag (Score:2)
Re:Broadcast flag (Score:2)
Re:Broadcast flag (Score:1, Informative)
It's a minor technicality, but you are allowed to build and possess them. That's why the law does not violate your rights (ha ha). The law makes it illegal to traffic in circumvention devices or to use them to access copyrighted works.
It is also illegal to traffic in the technology to build one. But if you can build one using nothing but your own knowledge, you're go
Re:I don't have a TV :-) (Score:2, Funny)
Re:I don't have a TV :-) (Score:2)
Re:The G% is a slow processor (Score:4, Interesting)
THe only reason (which you would have found out if you read the article) it requires a Dual G5 for SMOOTH playback is because Apple decided to be stupid and keeps the MPEG2 hardware playback API private so that they have to do the decoding in software and not hardware like a normal Intel based system can.
Its not a hardware issue at all, but a simple OS design issue. One of the very few places where OS X actually fails compared to Linux or Windows.
Re:The G% is a slow processor (Score:2, Informative)
However, my impression is that much of the video rendering systems within the OS have been in flux over the course of OS X's development. Remember, QuickDraw's still in active use. QD's really in need of replacement, and will be deprecated in Tiger.
From what I've seen, The Core[whatever] frameworks in Tiger will finally put this issue to bed, and provide
Re:The G% is a slow processor (Score:2)
Right. Unfortunately Tiger will probably not be released before the broadcast flag deadline, so any updates from Elgato to take advantage of it will likely cripple the EyeTV's functionality.
Re:The G% is a slow processor (Score:2)
I'm a UKer, so I'm not up on the details.
Cheers,
Chris
Re:The G% is a slow processor (Score:2)
Re:The G% is a slow processor (Score:2)
Re:The G% is a slow processor (Score:2)
But the G5 is fast. Much faster than a P$!
Re:The G% is a slow processor (Score:2, Interesting)
Put it out to graphics hardware and it takes basically no CPU cycles. This should change in Tiger, where all of the graphics sub system is going to be hardware accellerated, including video playback.