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Music Media Hardware Technology

Build High-End Audio System w/ Hard Drive Storage? 93

Posted by Cliff from the audio-components-that-have-caught-up-w/-the-tech dept.
nganju asks: "Hard Drives have finally reached the size where I can rip down 1000 CDs directly to WAV files, and skip the compression step (read: headache) altogether, ensuring that the audio playback is what the original CD author intended. Now the question is, how do I get that WAV data off the computer and into the amplifier with minimal distortion? Are there D/A PCI cards comparable to high-end CD players? Or is the best solution some direct digital output card (SPDIF) and a standalone D/A converter component? Specific model names would be greatly appreciated."
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Build High-End Audio System w/ Hard Drive Storage? More

Build High-End Audio System w/ Hard Drive Storage?

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  • Of course (Score:5, Informative)

    by b00m3rang ( 682108 ) * on Friday February 25, 2005 @07:23PM (#11783126)
    MOTU, M-Audio, Digidesign, and many other companies make audio interfaces capable of 24 bit 96 Khz audio encoding and decoding, which is well above the 16 bit 44.1 Khz that CDs use. Any of them should do.
    • Isn't it easier to use something like Apple's Airtunes to stream from the computer, and then use the optical out on the airtunes to feed into a receiver of some sort?
      • Are they going for easy? OR are they going for audiophile quality? It sounds like they want the latter. Apple is fine in their sound quality in their hardware, but I doubt that they'll have rave reviews for best of sound in audiophile magazines. M-Audio, E-Mu, Audiotrak, Echo, Terratec, Mark of the Unicorn, RME, and Digidesign would be audiophile contenders.

        Cheers.
        • But the parent poster asked about CD quality audio, right? The Airtunes device also supports 5.1 DTS sound.

          What can he lose by trying it? It's cheaper, simpler, and faster than any other solution mentioned! At the worst he can just return it right?
          • The Airtunes device also supports 5.1 DTS sound.

            Speaking of 5.1, does anyone know what decent 5.1 soundcard works well in Linux? I'm not an audiophile, so I'm speaking about a typical consumer product.

            On a side note, I've just setup a small office (all Fedora 3 workstations). The fileserver is connected to the stereo and I found this project called Tunez [sourceforge.net]. (with a 5.1 capable receiver, which is why the need for a linux supported 5.1 soundcard).
            If anyone has one stereo system in the office that everyone
          • Yes, but I can go and buy a dvd player, 5.1 sound system with speakers for a very low price. The sound reproduction, however, will not be true. (or even pleasant)

            What is wanted is a way to preserve the quality of the sound in transit from Hard Disk to audiophile speakers.

            This means that everything that the audio travels through must introduce "minimal distortion" (connectors, cables, circuitry etc.).

            • Why do you think the Airport Express would not qualify?

              The travel path would be:

              CD-> Hard Drive -> RAM -> CPU -> Wifi -> Airport Express-> Speakers

              The only place the signal could get distorted is from CD-> Hard Drive, when it is being ripped, and from Airport Express-> Speakers if the optical output isn't being used. From Hard Drive to Speakers (if optical output is used) the entire signal is kept in a digital state.
              • not true at all. 90% of consumer soundcards resample all output to 48kHz, which means you are not sending a bit-perfect output to your DAC outside the computer. Also, iTunes does not support gapless playback which is a must on any true audiophile requirement list.
                • Where is there a soundcard in the signal path I described?

                  HD->RAM->CPU->Wifi->Airport->Receiver->Speakers

                  The only DAC in play is at the Airport Express, if you use the analog out, or in the Receiver if you use the optical output.

                  As for your gapless playback, that might be a consideration; but at least the DAC isn't, if the poster wants to use the optical output.
              • There will naturally be a Bit-Error-Rate in any Wireless system. Does the Airport Express use UDP (streaming) or TCP (error correction with Re-Sends on fails)? If its the former (or something like it) then you could get a loss of quality.. GSG
                • I had to look up BER, and in doing so (alongside with Airport Express) came up with this [head-fi.org], which talks about jitter on S/PDIF, so it's not as if this kind of error doesn't plague wires, either.

                  What you are asking essentially is the ber of the implementation of the underlying protocol; the 802.11b and 802.11g implementations of the Airport Express and the particular wifi card of the person who decided to use an Airport Express.

                  As far as I can tell, Airport Express uses UDP:5353 for Airtunes, but that's from

    • Re:Of course (Score:5, Informative)

      by theLOUDroom ( 556455 ) on Saturday February 26, 2005 @04:36PM (#11788932)
      MOTU, M-Audio, Digidesign, and many other companies make audio interfaces capable of 24 bit 96 Khz audio encoding and decoding, which is well above the 16 bit 44.1 Khz that CDs use. Any of them should do.

      Exactly.
      Want good sound....buy pro gear.

      Consumer stuff you get at Best Buy is crap made for people who don't know what they're buying and "audiophile" stuff is snake oil. Pro audio gear from a respectable manufacturer (Mackie for example) will be much better and actually includes enough specs so that you can make informed buying desisions.

      The nice thing is that pro gear really isn't that expensive any more. Sites like Musician's Friend [musiciansfriend.com] give you a place to by gear that will might just last the rest of your life at very low prices.

      Pro gear has better interfaces, better connectors, more honest specs, higher reliability and is targeted at people who have actual money riding on their audio system.

  • Lossless compression does exist. (Score:5, Informative)

    by fatty bimble ( 565736 ) on Friday February 25, 2005 @07:25PM (#11783149) Journal
    You really should consider some type of lossless compression. The "headache" is minimal, and although it isn't the 10x compression of its lossy brethern, 2x is nothing to completely ignore. http://flac.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net]
    • Somebody needs to explain the difference between lossless compression and lossy compression, since nganju seems to be under the impression that all compression is lossy.

      Lossless compression does not discard any data; when you decompress the data, you get back exactly the bits you compressed. The trick here is to represent common values with short bit strings, so you can represent the same data in less space.

      Lossy data compression discards data that (theoretically) won't be noticed. The theory is that peo

      • since nganju seems to be under the impression that all compression is lossy.

        Say what? He never mentions it, just that it's a step he'd rather avoid, not the specifics of why he'd avoid it.

        Thanks for the heads-up on lossless vs. lossy compression though, I can bookmark it along with all the others I've read on /. before.

    • The very notion of "lossless copmression" is faulty. If you compress, you lose. I don't get lossless compression. How can you substitute one thing for another and then get it back the same way? Don't give me the math, I want to hear the difference. In fact, let me here the difference signal between a lossless compression file and the original wav. Of course, I am assuming there will be a difference signal, because there will, in fact, be one- not just residual noise, but an actual signal representing lost m
      • How is it that I can compress a text file with WinZip or gzip and unzip it without losing data? It's exactly the same. No jokes about how corruptible Winzip files are, please.
      • Take a 10 Mb text file and zip it. You'll get a much smaller file. Unzip it and you get exactly the same file. Now zip a .wav file and you'll get a file about 20-40% smaller. Unzip and you get the same .wav file. Now heavily optimize zipping specifically for audio data you'll get a file 30-70% of the originial size. Now optimize that zipping routine to allow unpacking on the fly for convenience. Now unzip the FLAC audio on the fly giving you the original .wav data and then send that audio stream to the har
      • To put as nice a face on this as I can.... you, sir, are an idiot.

        Of COURSE the losslessly compressed files are different on disk... they take half as much space! When you uncompress them, you get back exactly what you started with. That's why it's lossless compression. Bits are bits are bits... as long as the bits that go to the DAC are the same, how they're stored doesn't really matter.

        THERE IS NOTHING LOST WITH LOSSLESS COMPRESSION. That's why it is 'lossless' compression. The files just take less
      • I'll give you a simple example of two lossless compressions. "how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck would chuck wood?" Replace "wood" with "!", "chuck" with "@", and " would " with "#". The sentence is now "how much !#a !@ @ if a !@#@ !?" That was pretty good. You are standing 150,000 feet from a wall and move to 150,002 feet from the wall. You say you moved 2 feet further, which is a smaller number (and therefore takes less space). Usually, compression is done by knowing a lot about t
      • You sir a idiot.
        "The very notion of "lossless compression" is faulty." No it really is not. Take a 200k text file and compress it with Zip. Rename the original. Unzip the compressed file and now compare them. Wow it just be magic. They are the same.

        " If you compress, you lose. I don't get lossless compression. "
        Then how do explain the text file?
        "How can you substitute one thing for another and then get it back the same way?" Gee I do not know lets try. How about I write five. And then I write it 5. Gee I j
      • I take it the 'tube' in your name refers to tube-based audio? I hope your analog audio advice is better-informed than your ideas about digital audio.

        The difference signal you seek will be all zeros -- silence. There is exactly no difference, as others have explained. In practice, you will hear whatever noise your system produces in the analog stage when trying to reproduce silence. On an all-digital setup, it should be perfectly silent.
    • It would be better if the OS had hooks to transparently use different compression algorithms on different file types.

      So it could have gz as default, Flac for audio files, some future super-duper wavelet codec HDTV streams, etc.

  • Airtunes? (Score:3, Informative)

    by 2nd Post! ( 213333 ) <gundbear@pacbe l l .net> on Friday February 25, 2005 @07:29PM (#11783183) Homepage
    Here [apple.com], though it does use lossless compression, if you care.

    And it's only $129.

    • Using lossless compression won't degrade the music -- but pushing it through a low-end FM transmitter certainly will.

      • Re:Airtunes? (Score:4, Informative)

        by 2nd Post! ( 213333 ) <gundbear@pacbe l l .net> on Friday February 25, 2005 @10:42PM (#11784549) Homepage
        Where's the low end FM transmitter?

        Airtunes is using 802.11b/g, which has respectively 11 or 54 mb/s; or something like 1mb/s or 6mb/s, so even if you were transmitting uncompressed audio (which you can't), you're only transmitting 176kb/s; since the device uses Apple Lossless Encoding, you're sending the WAV file at something like 90kb/s

        Which means, technically, you can still use the thing as a wireless base station (which is what it is).

        So why do you think there's an FM transmitter in this thing? It has support for 5.1 DTS encoded audio!

  • Very simple! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Pig Hogger ( 10379 ) <pig@hogger.gmail@com> on Friday February 25, 2005 @07:31PM (#11783193) Journal
    Kitbash yourself a computer with an AOPEN AX4B-533 Tube motherboard [aopen.com.tw] (picture here). [aopen.com.tw]

  • simple (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Keruo ( 771880 ) on Friday February 25, 2005 @07:34PM (#11783213)
    Just use optical output at the soundcard such as sb audigy.
    The signal will be in totally digital form, until your amplifier D/A converts it back to audio.
    That way your computer/soundcard won't affect the sound quality at all.
    • As far as I know, all of Creative Labs' cards resample on input and output. Therefore, the stream will not be bit perfect. This is something you might want to be concerned with.

  • Wrong forum to ask this question in. (Score:5, Informative)

    by Murphy Murph ( 833008 ) <sealab.murphy@gmail.com> on Friday February 25, 2005 @07:36PM (#11783233) Journal
    You really should be asking this over at Hydrogenaudio:
    http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php [hydrogenaudio.org]
    The signal to noise ratio is much better there for this kind of question.
  • i have been on the brink of buying some mini-itx componants to do this and create a small, fannless machine for the front room that can be bolted under a table. the forever pending release of better and smaller boards by VIA has kept me from acting. my quesiton is whats the diffrence between the 5.1 sound from a VIA board like this.. http://www.viaembedded.com/product/epia_MII_spec.j sp?motherboardId=202 [viaembedded.com] and a PCI card like the ones from AVID .. http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Revolution51 -main.h [m-audio.com]
  • You'll find this sort of thing is widely used by the pro-audio recording industry. Most high-end units will be loaded with features you don't need though, like 8 channel recording or 24-bit 96Khz playback, although if you are an 'audiophile' with an unlimited budget / drive space, you might like to consider ripping your vinyl at better than CD quality!

    Mark of the Unicorn (MOTU) are well respected in the industry, but their prices are steep compared to normal soundcards. Take a look at their 828 mk II [motu.com] to s

  • flac (Score:3, Informative)

    by SanityInAnarchy ( 655584 ) <ninja@slaphack.com> on Friday February 25, 2005 @07:41PM (#11783282) Journal
    No, you want compression -- lossless compression. Oh, and just grab an Audigy if it's a Linux box.

    Otherwise, be warned that Creative will not give you free Windows driver downloads, only updates.
    • Creative? Do they still convert to 48khz internally and break the PCI spec in interesting ways? :/

  • Er???? (Score:3, Informative)

    by brunes69 ( 86786 ) <[slashdot] [at] [keirstead.org]> on Friday February 25, 2005 @07:43PM (#11783296)
    Seems braindead to me.

    Just rip to uncompressed PCM AC3 and pump directly to the receiver via the SPDIF jack.

    Or get a receiver with a USB Audio jack, like I do, and your receiver itself becomes the sound card.

  • ABX test. (Score:4, Informative)

    by Murphy Murph ( 833008 ) <sealab.murphy@gmail.com> on Friday February 25, 2005 @08:06PM (#11783482) Journal
    Do an ABX test (http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/bas_speaker/abx _testing.htm [bostonaudiosociety.org]) comparing a MP3 extracted with EAC and encoded with Lame 3.93 --alt preset standard and a wav file.
    Come back to me with the results.
    I think you will be suprised.
    99% of the population can't tell a difference.

    http://www.chrismyden.com/nuke/modules.php?op=modl oad&name=Elite_DAE&file=painless [chrismyden.com] for an easy guide.

    MP3s are not only smaller, they work on portables, and they have great metadata.
    Regardless of your decision regarding encoding or not - EAC is a must for a quality extraction!

    • Re:ABX test. (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Creepy Crawler ( 680178 )
      Ok. MP3's and uncompressed WAVs are "undiscernable". Bullshit.

      Compare Grieg's "Song of Petersburg" from lossless wav to 24kbit mono MP3. Can you hear the difference?

      Ok, thats not a fair test. Of course you were talking about a high quality MP3, perhaps 256kbit full stereo MP3. ok...

      Do you have a home theater setup? Go slot a disc holding that MP3 (the 256 kbit one) and listen to it and compare it to the wav... You can discern the difference. There's things missing from the mp3 when you "magnify" it to th

      • Re:ABX test. (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Do an ABX test.
        Anecdotal stories do nothing to convince me.
        Besides: A 256Kbit CBR MP3 is crap. The --alt preset settings are very high quality CQ VBR settings.

        Comparing video artifacts to audio ones is apples to oranges.

        Simply do an ABX test and _then_ let's talk.
      • It also depends on your own ears. If it's good enough for you, then go for it. Personally, my ears aren't good enough (or I suffer from too much tinnitus) to tell the difference, so it's all MP3 for me.

        When did I make the decision. I was listening to a lot of CDs using a decent quality headphones and a portable. Not doing ABX, and listening to the music I normally listen to, I can't tell the difference. Could I tell the difference if I was listening to a symphony on a high-end system? Maybe. But how often d

    • I *thought* I couldn't tell the difference between a rediculously high quality mp3 and strait PCM, but the difference really made itself apparant on my high end car stereo. No matter what I did, EAC/LAME optimizations galore, the lower frequencies sounded like junk. Converting over to FLAC just cured everything magically. mp3s were cool on a 486/28.8, but with storage and bandwidth so cheap, it serves little purpose today (for those who care).
      • high end car stereo

        i stopped reading here.

        • Well. There's no question that what you get from the factory in a car audio setup is poor quality. Spending a decent amount of money can make a setup that sounds much better than the factory. Whatever is best is "high end". This is obvious. Yes, car audio home audio, but you can't deny that each has its range.

      • mnb Re:The difference is clear on high end hardwar (Score:2, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Lower frequencies are where MP3 excels - but I will assume you are uninformed, and not a cheap troll.

        Besides - there is a HUGE difference between an insanely high bitrate MP3 and a quality MP3.
        Encoder and settings make a large difference.

        Once again - I challange you to use EAC & Lame with --alt preset standard. ABX test against source and let's talk about your results.
        Don't let your bad experience with shit MP3s cloud your judgement. Do the scientific test and THEN talk.

  • Hifi-Link (Score:4, Insightful)

    by PurpleFloyd ( 149812 ) <zeno20NO@SPAMattbi.com> on Friday February 25, 2005 @09:41PM (#11784157) Homepage
    A company called Xitel [xitel.com] makes the "Hi-Fi Link [xitel.com]," a USB-based audio-out gadget. I haven't used it, but it looks like a good solution: USB has several major advantages when outputting analog data. First, it lives outside the electromagnetic noise storm that is the typical computer case. Second, it acts as a second audio device: this means you can, if you wish, hook up cheap speakers to your soundcard for system sounds, and output nothing but music to your hi-fi system (I use this system, with two soundcards, and it is far better than having Windows or Gnome intersperse your music with noises).

    Another solution is to get a card with S/PDIF digital output and an amp which supports it. This is a good solution if you already have such a soundcard, but the soundcard upgrade can be expensive. On the whole, if you're starting from scratch, I'd go with USB.

    • Another solution is to get a card with S/PDIF digital output and an amp which supports it.

      That product you linked comes in a "pro" version as well with optical/coax etc outputs.

      Thanks for the link, looks like a nifty gadget.
    • This looks like it would be great for the audio out of my laptop for mythtv. I can't figure out if there's a linux driver for it, though. Do you happen to know?

      Thanks!

  • Simple solution here. (Score:4, Informative)

    by QuietRiot ( 16908 ) <cyrus&80d,org> on Friday February 25, 2005 @09:52PM (#11784239) Homepage Journal
    Here's one way.... Get a small computer, big harddrive.

    Get an M-Audio Audiophile 2496 [m-audio.com] (~$100) and maybe a right-angle PCI adapter to fit it into your little BTX box or whatever. Load your OS of choice. You've already got plans for the rest - that way should be just fine. Rip your stuff onto the drive (encode with FLAC [sourceforge.net]), hook it up to an amplifier, and you're all set.

    The 2496 has already got RCA IN/OUT and Digital connectors (read the specifics on compatibility and what you can and cannot use at the same time) making hookup easy. It will also record at impressive rates and resolutions (playback too if you've got fancy hi-res sources). You can find drivers for most of the following at OSS [opensound.com] (these are commercial drivers that run ~$50 for the most common OSs that include free tech support and upgrades for 2 years).

    * Linux (x86, Alpha, PowerPC)
    * VxWorks (Tornado)
    * LynxOS (x86, PowerPC)
    * SCO Open Server
    * SCO UnixWare
    * Solaris (x86, Sparc)
    * IBM AIX
    * FreeBSD
    * BSD/OS
    * OpenBSD
    * NetBSD
    * HP-UX

    You could buy a mixer and some mics to do some high quality recordings too. (I've picked up a 10 channel Yamaha mixer [MG10/2] w/ 4 mic inputs (phantom capable) for $99 and a Samson CO2 matched pair of small condensers for ~$120 at Sam Ash [samash.com] to do recordings with a setup very similar to that above and it worked quite well.) No experience with the OSS drivers but they seem to be responsive to email inquirys about specifics and have a free trial available.

    I dream of a portable custom BSD based solution that has easy controls (serial keypad and LCD - "real" buttons and switches), could be setup for automated recordings, has a builtin mixer, microphone inputs (phantom powered for my dream large condenser pair), and speaker/headphone driver, AND is powerful enough to run baudline [baudline.com] for use in the field. Background processes could compress material as I was recording (incremental, selectively, to be sure you could grab the entire recording - even if your quality had to suffer - but you'd get the highest possible of any given event). The network interface could stream audio at selectable bitrates (.ogg peeling) OR amplify a stream like an internet radio station. AND it could do my laundry for me and fit in a backpack. If anybody else would be interesed in something like this please contact me and I'd love to collaborate. [ bricoleur !AT! 80d !DOT! org ]

  • Why not use http://www.alcohol-soft.com/ [alcohol-soft.com] (or similar) and create an exact duplicate of the CD? Unless you're making one big wav file you may run into issues with cutting contiguous tracks (think crossfade with a track sep) that have silences removed for long-play albums (or is music so bad these days everyone only aggregates singles into an album?)

  • It's not the "best sound ever!" but the Squeezebox [slimdevices.com] will play back uncompressed flac and wav files, and sounds pretty darn good to me. Analog and digital outputs, wireless or wired options (I strongly recommend the wired).

    I also strongly recommend you peruse the mailing list archives first, because there is much past discussion of how the product compares to others for the exact purpose you describe.

  • Easy. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by adolf ( 21054 ) * <flodadolf@gmail.com> on Saturday February 26, 2005 @12:11AM (#11785049) Journal
    Buy an Xbox, an SP/DIF dongle for it, and install XBMC. Plug it into a good outboard converter or your surround reciever, as dictated by taste and equipment. It will play whatever audio format you decide on, either from its own (upgradable) hard drive or across a network.

    To my ears, with my system, it sounds indistinguishable from the Carver TL-3300 CD player that I've used as a reference for the past decade. And the organizational features of XBMC are second to none for any system capable of being operated sans mouse/keyboard.

    Note, however, that listening to music isn't as much fun once it becomes computer-based and completely intangible, even if it does sound the same. There's nothing tactile or visual about it. It's just a sterile index of music. The disparity is not unlike a flipping through a card catalog instead walking through a gallery.

    XBMC's relatively slick handling of cover art and biographical information helps a bit, but it's still very impersonal.

    Keep your CDs around.

    • you will, however, need to MODify the xbox in order to run Xbox Media Center on it

      check out the xbox-scene forums [xbox-scene.com] for more info on doing this

      you can either buy a modchip, or the necessary goodies to softmod

      XBMC is the best 'homebrew' xbox software ever made... in fact scratch that 'homebrew', it *is* the best xbox software ever made (imnsho)
  • The coolest solution I've seen is the Bithead portable headphone amplifier and USB audio device: http://tinyurl.com/5293w/ [tinyurl.com] It's got hi end D/A converters, audiophile parts thoughout, and goes for about $270. I want one, but I'm going the cheaper route: a $5 sound card with SPDIF output and an outboard D/A decoder that I have lying around. Grab a D/A on ebay: http://tinyurl.com/4nsws/ [tinyurl.com] The Audio Alchemy units are great for the price! The airport express solution from apple is also worth looking into: http:/ [apple.com]
  • Use the line out on your soundcard. Pipe that into your stereo reciever. Use that to amplify and manage the audio stream. I have several friends that do that exact same thing. They will not use ANY compression. Just the raw .wav file format. My friend has a smaller collection, but has a remote and a binder with the "cd number" and each track, ala jukebox. Whatever he bought for the remote allows him to key into his media player he hacked together the cd and track numbers just like a jukebox. Type so
    • This sounds like a fascinating setup. I've seen some infrared remote control software [girder.nl] but it usually sucks. I suppose just making disc numbers 3 digits long, since track numbers can't go above 99 [commonerarecords.com], would make this sort of control easy.

      Personally, I'm looking for a similar widget that would interpret numbers as letters [google.com] to let me jump to a track. This would be used on my laptop with an external numeric keypad velcroed to the dash. (Key-remapping software would let me pop the keycaps into phone standard upside

  • Some hardware tips (Score:4, Informative)

    by Myself ( 57572 ) on Saturday February 26, 2005 @07:57AM (#11786250) Journal
    You know that you want to keep the signal digital until it's as close to your amp as possible. Assuming your amplifier has an optical input, simply running fiber from a soundcard's optical output is the best choice. This puts the burden of clarity on the amplifier's internal DAC and power supply. Optical SPDIF seems capable of 15 meters on standard cable with normal drivers. Since the PC end is all digital, component choice is essentially irrelevant. PCI soundcards with optical outputs are common, so let reputation and support be your guide.

    If your amp only accepts analog inputs, things get more complicated. A standalone SPDIF-analog converter seems obvious (and leaves a simple amplifier upgrade path in the future) but consider that such gizmos, while overpriced, usually include a heinously noisy wall-wart power supply. Ripple on the DAC's inputs translates to noise in your audio. Careful design can filter this crap, but caveat emptor. Do listening tests.

    This can also be a problem with many of the USB audio devices available. Since they're powered from the USB, a bit of digital noise is inevitably coupled to the analog side. Component choice and careful design are essential here. I'd trust any of the big names to get this right. M-Audio and Edirol both make some slick little USB audio dongles with excellent analog stages. A plethora of USB and firewire audio interfaces [silentway.com] are avilable.

    If your PC is just a few meters from your stereo, then USB is probably the way to go. My first question would be about ground potential differences, between the USB signal and the amplifier's idea of analog signal ground. Feeding the whole mess from the same branch circuit is an easy way to sidestep the question, but I'm sure someone has tackled it. (Clueful? Please reply!)

    If you're dealing with a longer distance, real networking may be the way to go. The idea here is to let your PC in the next room serve the files, but put enough intelligence in the hifi rack to do the decoding as well as the DAC step locally. This usually includes a display and interface of some sort, so you don't need to mess with wireless keyboards or whatever. Various network music players [dansdata.com] are available, with varying levels of software sophistication and hardware quality. I don't believe any of them include audiophile-quality components in the outputs, and power supply noise is usually an issue in these cheapie designs done by digital engineers without an analog bone in their bodies. If you can find one that supports raw WAV file input, give it a try and see if the audio quality suits you.

    Most such players rely heavily on the ID3 tag info for database and display purposes, so tagless WAVs might be awkward at best. Alternately, "tune" the network player to an "internet radio station" which is really a stream running from your desktop's player software. The stream server can then stuff tag information into the stream's metadata, which will appear on the display.

    Someone mentioned using the Airport Express as an output device that iTunes could throw digitized audio at. Cute, but I'd be skeptical of any analog components sitting so close to a power supply. Anyone done SNR measurements on this sucker? If it worked with software besides iTunes [macnn.com], it wouldn't suck so hard.
    • The Airport Express has optical out; why would the power supply have any bearing on the device, unless you think line noise is going to corrupt the digital optical signal? And how do you perform a SNR measurement on a digital signal?

      And if you rip using iTunes, error correction, and Apple Lossless, there's no analog component at all.
  • You know, there are going to be so many steps that this audio goes through, that having the best soundcard will not make too much of a difference. First, it goes from CD to digital file. If you use uncompressed audio, there is no loss, but you will find that a 1000 CD collection starts to really take up space uncompressed. Next, it goes to your soundcard's A/D converter. Then through your cables to your amp. I imagine that the computer is rather far away from your stereo, since audiophiles hate the fa

    • Re:You know... (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      You have it all exactly backwards. Speaker quality and room characteristics will dominate totally how the setup sounds like. Speakers are electro-mechanical transducers with an efficiency of about 5%. They have to reproduce a 1000:1 frequency range with 100dB dynamic range in power amplitude. Driver resonances, cabinet material & build quality, design, crossover type and placement are so totally dominant over any 1dB difference of any modern amplifier.

      Basically, driving a pair of Totem System 1's with

    • Re:You know... (Score:1, Redundant)

      by 2nd Post! ( 213333 )
      Or you could use an Airport Express.

      Pure digital from input (rip from CD) to compression (Apple Lossless) to transmission (802.11g) to receiver (digital optical out).

      You would think people would know more about this thing; only $129 and it can do DTS 5.1 as well.
  • Even if you do have a terrabyte hard-disc in your computer, no portable palyers do, so you would need to compress for that. it is said that ogg vorbis quality 5 or 6 is transparent, at just over 1 megabyte/min and will play on iRiver or Rio players. if you got the 40GB model you could get several days of transparent audio on that, which you could then plug in to big PA system as the player as optical out. the iRiver also comes with direct encoding. I plug mine into my DAB radio (optical connection) and ca
  • Check out the Yamaha CDR-HD1300 [yamaha.com]. It's only got an 80gig HD, but it does store the audio data uncompressed.
  • i have a musical fidelity a3cr that is using a Hammerfall 'light' [rme-audio.com] with the HDSP 9652 a/d conventer [rme-audio.com] as the pre-amp.

    its expensive stuff but sounds great! and there are linux drivers.

    best
    greg

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