Digital Enhancements or Expensive Distractions? 211
markmcb writes "Berkeley and USC have teamed up to launch a $3.3 million study over 3 years that hopes to shed some light on how today's kids are interacting with technology and the effects that it is having on education. The study aims to determine if digital devices such as computers and cell phones are shaping the way that teenagers obtain and process information. But given the price tag and the goals of the project, how much can this project actually help education? Has anyone out there in the high school level education field seen digital systems improve the classroom to the point that students actually learn more, or do they just tend to be fascinating distractions that detract from the classroom?"
More specific (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:More specific (Score:2)
Re:More specific (Score:2)
If this wasn't the case, then it would have been trivial to teach by video for a long time with DVD, VHS, or even film reel. It is possible to conve
That is easy, they don't (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:That is easy, they don't (Score:2, Interesting)
That being said, however, technology can be used to teach students extremely well; especially with interactive lessons.
Technology in our school isn't all flash and bang. Our school get AutoDesk Inventor, for example, and it's been a big hit, and has helped with a lot of things, including CAD and design process(es).
Re:That is easy, they don't (Score:3, Insightful)
As a result of using such tools, the students rely on them so greatly that they become crutches for students. Moreover, they teach students bad habits such as spending time thinking about format rather than content.
I'm no Luddite, but I believe learning how to do things without computers (even if you are a CS student) helps you to improve your own abilities and lateral thinking. I don't have any statistics to back me
Mod Parent Insightful. (Score:2)
Re:That is easy, they don't (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:That is easy, they don't (Score:2)
Computer penetration into most households is pretty high, especially if they have kids. And anyway, most libraries have computers in my experience. If a kid is interested, s/he can find a computer.
Re:That is easy, they don't (Score:2, Interesting)
Perhaps juniors and seniors should be trained in using PCs. However, kids younger than that should be trained in working and thinking, in real terms.
The problem is that using computers to do things restricts you to that particular environment. I know of teachers, who after a few years of using computers, cannot teach without Power
Re:That is easy, they don't (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:That is easy, they don't (Score:2)
Just to clarify you believe the purpose of school directly is to make people employable with technical skills? I thought that is what technical schools were for?
Word processors aren't the issue, language syntax and spelling are the problem. Knowing funamentals of somethings has more benefit than having specific technical knowledge. Have people use computers is all fine and dandy, but it can have a way of become TV in the classroom. Great tools for learning, but pretty much used as a crutch to n
Re:That is easy, they don't (Score:2)
The problem, of course, is that the teachers don't know how to operate computers - just Microsoft Office. If they were asked to operate in a workplace that used a different word processor - they'd be lost. Furthermore, put them on a Mac or Linux machine? Even
Re:That is easy, they don't (Score:2)
Spell checkers and grammar checkers don't do a good enough job. If someone wants to get a decent mark, they have to proofread it.
While it's important to teach students to write by hand, making them write large documents that way is pointless. A document on a computer always looks neater and is much, much easier to correct. Writing long documents by hand is much like doing long division without a calculator - it's good to kno
Re:That is easy, they don't (Score:2)
Re:That is easy, they don't (Score:2)
I'm no Luddite, but I believe learning how to do things without computers (even if you are a CS student) helps you to improve your own abilities and lateral thinking. I don't have any statistics to back me up, but ponder this: how many students nowadays can write a paper by hand and proofread it themselves?
No kidding. Referencing another post ("Our school get AutoDesk Inventor, for example, and it's been a big hit, and has helped with a lot of things, including CAD and design process(es)."), how many st
Re:That is easy, they don't (Score:2)
You can easily spot which engineers were trained on paper and which were trained on CAD. If their handwriting is clear, legible, and precise, they learned on paper.
Re:That is easy, they don't (Score:2)
Paper-trained engineers. That sounds like a good idea (wouldn't want them uncontrollably peeing all over the carpet after all).
Joking aside, even "draftsmen" (now called "CAD operators") today are probably challenged with making a sketch by hand. And these are the people who were originally half tech/half art-skilled and transformed big ideas and calculations into something that could be built via drawings.
I think you might be misinformed about engineers' penmanship and drafting ability. The majority of
Re:That is easy, they don't (Score:3, Interesting)
However, alot of money/effort goes into "multimedia education" and this stuff is mostly useless in its current form, IMHO. There are all sorts of CDs that come with science textbooks, that have interacti
Re:That is easy, they don't (Score:2)
Why do the publishers even bother?
Re:That is easy, they don't (Score:2)
Oh come on! I played The Oregon Trail for a half hour every other week in the Apple IIe lab. There was plenty of, as you say, "bang" as I shot the buffalo[sic]!
Re:That is easy, they don't (Score:2)
I did just that in a Eugene school, and we also had Odell Lake and Carmen Sandiego...
Ah, those were the days...
Re:That is easy, they don't (Score:2)
Re:That is easy, they don't (Score:2)
Cliff Stoll has something to say about this... (Score:5, Informative)
Cliff Stoll: Astronomer/Writer/SysAdmin (Score:2)
If you read his research, you'll learn a bit about astronomy, but find that what he is saying about computers in education is just his personal opinion.
Stoll's claiming "computers don't belong in schools" should be taken with about the same weight as if Richard Mayer [elearning-reviews.org] claimed astronomy was better without telescopes.
schools? hell no (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:schools? hell no (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:schools? hell no (Score:2)
What on Earth is a book if not a form of technology? OK, it's not what is generally meant by "technology" but look at it this way:
The textbook scam (Score:2)
But this means it is a nightmare for teachers to let students use old textbooks, because every year the chapter numbers and page numbers are different.
PS, Dr. James Paul Gee [gamezone.com] makes a good (research based) case that you're doing a good deal of learning while playing games:-).
Re:The textbook scam (Score:2)
Re:schools? hell no (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:schools? hell no (Score:2, Insightful)
Yes, over-reliance on computers is a bad thing. Over-reliance on ANYTHING is a bad thing. Getting rid of computers is an equally bad thing.
Sounds like we need smart, motivated teachers, and aggressive plans to locate and disseminate the best teaching techniques and technologies. How is throwing away computers going to get us closer to that goal?
Re:schools? hell no (Score:2)
Unless there are too many of them. Do we have to go through this a third time, or have you got it now?
Re:schools? hell no (Score:2)
True. But pencils don't require power, maintenance personnel, upgrades, software, or significant floorspace. And a lone pencil's distractive gaming capability is limited to Tic-Tac-Toe, MASH, and Dots.
get rid of computers! (Score:2)
Re:get rid of computers! (Score:2)
Re:get rid of computers! (Score:2)
Education (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Education (Score:2, Insightful)
The parents of the kids would never willingly allow their kids to be brought up deprived of IT.
They have been told for years now that IT is the future, and here are you telling them that "as an experiment" we shall see how well your kids do in the absence of IT.
You are effectively playing games with the childrens' future, and no parent will allow it.
The parents would prefer to send their kids to the best available school to give them a chance to grow into the best they can become.
Share t
Re:Education (Score:2)
Computers or Teachers (Score:5, Insightful)
Our school district is replacing over 400 computers next school year. This includes several elementary school labs, computers used for a few simple learning games, word processing, and internet browsing.
Our school board now want to make cuts to the high school music program and eliminate seventh grade athletics. Education priorities need to get into order. We need more teachers over more computers.
Re:Computers or Teachers (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Computers or Teachers (Score:2)
Indeed. As my college Early U.S. history teacher once said, "How many of you learned history from 'Coach Whats-his-name?'"
About 80% of the hands in the room went up.
That's not to say that some Coach Whats-his-names didn't do a good job... it's just a matter of priorities set by districts.
Re:Computers or Teachers (Score:3, Informative)
Better to ask about the ratio of administrators to teachers.
personnel improvement (Score:2)
Message to Trolls: Yes, what you always thought is in fact now confirmed.
Computer technology in schools (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Computer technology in schools (Score:2)
That's exactly why Higher Ed, the schools training the teachers has to step it up. I've taught sections of teacher ed classes before (based of ISTE's NETS-T standards), and it's amazing that kids today can reach college with no - and I mean no - technology skills.
I've seen college sophomores who struggle with email
Re:Computer technology in schools (Score:2)
Re:Computer technology in schools (Score:2, Informative)
Homework (Score:2)
Instead, I'm reading Slashdot.
There you go, no study necessary.
Now if you excuse me I need to go back to my work.
Re:Homework (Score:2, Insightful)
Computer's aren't to blame, it's really just a matter of self-control.
Clifford Stoll (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Clifford Stoll (Score:2)
Why? (Score:2)
Why would anyone think his opinion on a subject he has no training in and hasn't done any actual research on is worth a reading (or publishing?).
Next up, teacher with 20 years experience says astronomers don't need telescopes, read all about it...
c0mpu73rs == 1337 (Score:3, Funny)
Re:c0mpu73rs == 1337 (Score:2)
"My smmr hols wr CWOT. B4, we usd 2go2 NY 2C my bro, his GF & thr 3
All falls back to the teacher (Score:3, Insightful)
Sadly, there are too few of those 'right hands'.
It's how they use it (Score:2, Insightful)
What about Prof. Escalante? (Score:2)
Also - if you have a computer scren and you talk about equations, and present them a 3D view of a graph, etc etc... the students can get curious and ask - what if we add a negative root in here?
So instead of spending dozens of minutes trying to solve an equation, boring the classrom, and earning that kid a terrible reputation among his
Um, that's the point, isn't it? (Score:2)
The second question answers the first one. Assuming the study is honest, if the answer to the last question is "the latter" then the study can potentially help educatio
What will you do (Score:2)
Discovering and promoting ways in which technology can be used to help students to "actually learn more" surely would help education out even more than the latter.
School != education (Score:2, Insightful)
Tech is can be used to liberate (students could use camera phones to get evidence of teacher's sexually abusing them, and open source software could help students learn to code), or it can be used to oppress (schools use security cameras to make sure students only abuse the drugs they are given: aderall and other amphetamine based
Whoah, there, hippy. (Score:2)
For the chemical example, I once had some classmates who found the recipe for some sort of nerve toxin, requiring relatively simple chemical ingredients. They got pretty close to possibly getting the thing done during lab, as I understand it, judging by the teacher's reaction.
Thought without curiosity provides cultural death.
Curiosity without thought provides Darwin Awards.
Both must be equally guarded against.
Re:Whoah, there, hippy. (Score:2)
All technology has good uses and bad uses. (Score:2)
All technology has good and bad uses. The important thing is if the good uses outnumber the bad ones. If they do, then we tend to use it.
This applies to almost everything:
And the list goes on. As those technologies enter shcool, we have to aim at the good uses, and not the bad ones. Like the Internet, which provides wealths of information, but also wealths of bad information.
Especially in vocational skills, the
Real purpose of study (Score:5, Insightful)
Grad students will do all the work. Profs will take all the credit and most of the money.
The result will be whatever the bias of the profs is. A prof who believes that technology is overused will prove just that. A prof who feels that more tech is good will prove just that.
If you doubt this, I suggest you get into grad school and work as a research assistant kissing your thesis advisors butt for 2 to 6 years, just so you can get your damn degree and get out.
Oh, ya, I've been there and done that.
"Research" Grants are a business and way of life like any other. You survive by getting big grants as often as neccesary, and you provide the answers your sponsers want to hear.
Walmart is practically Mother Teresa by comparison.
Wasted opportunity (Score:2)
Our library trips would sometimes include jumping on a library computer to see what the "Intermanet" ha
High school and college (Score:3, Funny)
As I was completing my last year at college I saw the introduction of equipment like digital projectors in classrooms, more computers and those crazy digital whiteboards.
I've never used a digital whiteboard myself but I understand that you can save "lessons" -- this is a truly brilliant feature but I doubt very much that my school/college would make these lessons available online. If this was done I can think of no better revision tool, especially if combined with an audio stream, which is in no way hard to do.
Digital projectors linked up to computers are also good for demonstrating things in certain types of lessons. ICT (I hate that acronym) seems to be the best application -- explaining things like macros in Word/Excel are best learned through demonstration and practice. However, I seriously have to question just how useful a PC and projector would be in, say, an English or Math class.
People might argue that some tailored math software is beneficial but I know very well that as a student a projector with some crazy software will be little more than a relaxing break, as opposed to learning the important things.
My college had a number of computer clusters. One of these was a general-purpose humanities cluster that teachers could book for their lesson. The idea being that they could let the kids search for details specific to their courses or currect projects. In theory this is a good idea but in practice we looked forward to these lessons because it meant we could kick about and do what we might do on the Internet at home (well... some of the things we might do).
We had another lab in the languages centre that were set up with headsets and microphones. Using these machines students could practice their [language] listening by playing pre-recorded scenes. Previously we had a lab where the teacher sat at the front and repeated certain sections when asked. That's not much good if you're a little slower than everybody else or have a specific problem with a given sentence. Using the lab these problems are overcome.
I think if I were to give advice to the teachers/those in charge it would be to lock the machines down. As much as I hate to say that I think it really is the only way to get people to work. Sure, trust is a nice thing but when you're dealing with kids between the ages of 12 and 18 it only takes one person to goof around before everybody joins in.
Well, those are my thoughts. Thinking about the article/question I don't know if it really all that relevant. I've not said yes or no but said yes, in moderation, which I think was fairly obvious from the outset.
a modest investment (Score:2, Insightful)
A brief Google search suggests that the US spends on the order of 500 billion dollars per year on education (http://www.oclc.org/membership/escan/economic/ed u cationlibraryspending.htm). It would not be unreasonable to spend a percent or two of that amount on research directed at understanding and improving the process - which would mean five to ten thousand projects of this magnitude (the annual cost for this project being about 1 million)
The purpose of public education? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:The purpose of public education? (Score:2)
2 purposes for teaching technology (Score:2)
Most teachers didn't let kids use them until late elementary school or Jr. High. Why? Because the kids were STILL LEARNING to do the things the calculator could do.
Once they mastered basic arithmetic, teachers TAUGHT them to use calculators and EXPECTED them to use them.
WHY?
1) it's an important life skill
2) it makes learning algebra, higher math, science, and other classes that use numbers so much more efficient, since stu
As a high school student at a top high school... (Score:2)
Techology works with the right teacher. (Score:2)
How our urban schools use computers (Score:2)
At every high school there are classes on basic office-type computer use. They learn Word, Excel and PowerPoint. Given the need for these basic skills in the workplace, this type of computing is vita
Distractions... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Distractions... (Score:3, Informative)
BTW, Firefox is not an alternative browser. It is
The answer is appropirate pedagogy (Score:2)
students who feel 'out of place' in a class due to their religious or political beleifs tend to interact more via email or discussion boards.
discussion boards can enable more thoughtful responses than time pressured in-class discussions, and allow teachers to see just who has been participating and directly evaluate a student's quantity and quality of participation.
students in
Re:1994 (Score:2)
Re:1994 (Score:2)
The ones that didn't need the calculator are probably biking, smart enough to live near work...
Re:1994 (Score:2)
Of course, if someone were intent on cheating, they would figure out a way of making a wireless device that looked just like one of these calculators, and access the web that way.
Re:1994 (Score:2)
Re:1994 (Score:2)
Re:1994 (Score:4, Funny)
Re:1994 (Score:2)
But on another equally cynical note - who cares about who is driving a nice car? Since when is money/posessions the measure of success and living the Good Life(TM)?
*looks around my California neighborhood* Oh shit. Nevermind.
Re:1994 (Score:3, Funny)
Not until college did I understand the quadratic equation. We were taught it very briefly one day in high school math. After that, the teacher's policy in class was this:
When you have a quadratic equation to solve, punch it into QuadKill (a calculator program someone had made to solve quadratic equations). Before the test, the teacher would erase all programs off the calcular except for QuadKill, because that was OK to use.
Granted, I didn't pay the most attention a
Re:1994 (Score:2)
1953 (Score:2)
Aren't you missing the category that used it, didn't understand what they heck they were doing, and always got the wrong answers?
Here's a quote from a 1953 manual for a slide rule:
Re:1994 (Score:2)
Re:1994 (Score:2)
Re:People at my school... (Score:2)
Foremost, the all flash and bang mentioned earlier. - It is my contention that educators don't understand what computers are. Period. Hence, they don't know what to do with them. My classroom has 25 G5s and there is a huge amount of distraction to deal with.
My current lesson is having my kids talk with somebody who went to college over 20 years ago to find out how they did research. Where they went, how much they spent. Particularly questioning them about the social conta
Re:McFatter Technical HS (Score:2)
Learn Word and be set till the next release.
Learn TeX [or LaTeX] and be set for life. You'll know a powerful [and consistent] tool that makes documents professionally. You won't be so "owned" by Microsoft either as TeX is freely available and can be created [the documents] with ANY text editor...
Re:McFatter Technical HS (Score:2)
Go to a job interview and they'll usually ask you "do you know Word/excel/PPT?"
If you respond with "No, sorry, but I know LaTeX" you'll probably get a puzzled look and won't be getting a call back.
Re:McFatter Technical HS (Score:2)
At my current job I have to write proposals/reports and I always use LaTeX. Net result is they all have the same look, appearance, order, etc...
Just to prove point...
I originally learned to use LaTeX with MikTex for windows. I've since moved to all Linux workstations [for the last two years or so]... I use TeTex and whoa... I didn't have to re-learn anything...
Say that for the word => ooo switch...
Re:McFatter Technical HS (Score:2)
It doesn't take a genius to get an ARM SDK and code some stuff for it [hint: GBA is a cheap development platform].
The point though is just because apathy has struck business and as a result education as well doesn't mean you have to follow suit.
Learning how to develop for ARM or M
Re:Can you imagine.. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Classrooms? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Is more than useful, neccesary (Score:2)
Of course, it could potentially confuse them more, since = is used in math for equality, but = means assignment in programming (at least for the most popular languages.)
Re:One high school did it right by mistake (Score:2)
Welcome to the wide wonderful world of NCLB, where individualism and excellence are illegal.