iPods Valuable in the College Classroom? 364
Infonaut writes "The Christian Science Monitor has an interesting article called When iPod goes collegiate, examining the iPods for students program at Duke University. It seems that while many students and professors find them valuable for classwork, this is America, so questions about intellectual property rear their ugly head: "Do they have permission from the person who wrote the lectures to share it?" asks one IP attorney, referring to lectures recorded on iPods."
Valuable? Yes. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Valuable? Yes. Here's why: (Score:2, Funny)
1. Listen to iPod during class
2. Ignore professor
3. Cheat on the homeworks
4. Freak out b/c you don understand
5. Cheat on the exam
6. Make an A
7. Cheat in all other classes
8. ???
9. Live a fraudulent lifestyle
10. Profit!!!
Also as a bargaining tool (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Also as a bargaining tool (Score:3, Insightful)
Sue me for sharing th enote I take, too. Forking morons. Mini-cassette has been doing this for forking years.
Re:Also as a bargaining tool (Score:3, Informative)
At my university, for several years now students have had to sign a disclaimer form before being allowed to record lectures. This is precisely for IP reasons. And, mind you, this is not in the USA.
As for notes taken by students, they are clearly the IP of the student writing them. Lecture notes written by the lecturer, however, are the IP of either the lecturer or the university,
Re:Also as a bargaining tool (Score:5, Interesting)
at what point does 'learning' become 'IP theft'? something is seriously wrong with the culture at your university, and with society in general, if knowledge is going to be wrapped up in disclaimers and intellectual property rights.
in fact, it sickens me.
No, it's not the information (Score:3, Insightful)
It's the *presentation* of the information which is the professor's intellectual property.
Happily telling the world all the facts he told you isa legal.
Selling recordings of the lecture is not.
hawk
Re:Valuable? Yes. (Score:2)
certainly nothing to sneeze at!
Ummm (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Ummm (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, people generally get freaked out about the fact that, with digital recording, material can be shared with a huge number of people in a really short time.
Imagine how long it would take to copy & distribute those little microcassettes to as many people as you could reach via P2P.
So that's the justification behind some people's paranoia. But in reality, who the hell would want to "steal" some apathetic professor's boring-ass lecture on organic chemistry anyway?
Re:Ummm (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Ummm (Score:2)
Dude, I know Apple is popular, but I don't think it's quite made the status of media outlet [google.com] yet...
Unlimited distribution (Score:4, Insightful)
Hmm... I think it is because it is in a digital format that potentially can be distributed to millions of people.
A tape cassette doesn't inherently share that property.
Re:Unlimited distribution (Score:3, Insightful)
A tape cassette doesn't inherently share that property.
Back in the late 80s I noticed many university book stores offered tape copy kiosks that would allow you to bring in a cassette and high speed dub to either one or several copies. In fact, this is what many a garage band used to get their material copied, as well other spoken word media. The quality left much to be desired as they were h
Re:Ummm (Score:5, Informative)
The actual FA discusses why Duke thought it was a good idea to give iPods to students at all. The first question - why choose the iPod instead of a player with more function? The iPod requires additional accessories and hackery to do all the things that students want to use them for. Casual iPod users would find it difficult to share downloaded lectures, for example, because Apple makes sure that it's difficult to transfer files off of your iPod - protected or not.
And secondly, is it really a good idea to give them away without really coming up with good uses for them? "Let's give everyone an iPod first, and figure out how to integrate it into our curricula later!" That's certainly what seems to have happened - and that's how students feel as well.
If anyone's generating stupid publicity, it's Duke University. The article just tries to figure out what effect (if any) it has had on students and their learning and interaction methods.
Re:Ummm (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Ummm (Score:2)
Yeah, I used to think that as well. Accidentally read a few of their articles, each excellent, first time I thought it was a fluke, second time a coincidence, 3rd time there had to be something. Seems the CSM has a rather good reputation for unbiased/unfiltered news, especially international.
Re:Ummm (Score:5, Interesting)
Recently though, I happened on a quoting of an article somewhere and read one of their online issues. The next day I got myself a daily subscription to the dead tree edition (mailed to you) and am very happy with the decision. The articles are very well written (very rarely taken from Reuters or the AP), and always very careful about their bias (very unlike most media). And the reporters take the time to understand all of the issues, and don't just repeat the most sensational sound bytes from each side in order to be "balanced".
Despite being associated with a somewhat fringe church, their reporting is excelent and comprehensive. They do tend to take a non-the-world-is-going-to-end view on things, and there is one clearly marked article that has to do with "Christian Science" (the Curch of Christ, Scientist... wikipedia has a [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_scien
I say this as a agnostic/atheist. Don't let the name dissuade you from what is probably the best weekday newspaper in the US (the New York Times would also be in the running, but is too much for me). Read one of the PDF papers that they will give you as a trial from their site, or check out some of the articles there.
good read about how PR spead information (Score:2)
Re:Ummm (Score:5, Insightful)
It's different because it's easy enough for lazy students to do.
Re:Ummm (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Ummm (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Ummm (Score:2)
laws are like software... 90% of the requirements are unknown at the time of writing (and lawyers are like devious perl programmers...
Re:Ummm (Score:2)
Re:Ummm (Score:2)
I do think the article is interesting-- but the summary at the top of the thread looks like it was trying to hit the right buttons to get the green-light. Shoot, it worked.
If I paid fees to attend the lecture... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:If I paid fees to attend the lecture... (Score:5, Funny)
Replace "lecture" with "movie" and see if your theory still applies.
Re:If I paid fees to attend the lecture... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:If I paid fees to attend the lecture... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:If I paid fees to attend the lecture... (Score:2)
Another difference - in order to see a movie, you *have* to pay.
Especially with first and second year classes, nobody's going to notice if a random person walks in and sits through the lecture. Hell, the prof would probably be pleased that somebody wants to listen to what he has to say.
With a movie, people check tickets.
Re:Not true (Score:3, Interesting)
You are paying for the lecture, and the professor is performing it as a work for hire - that is what he/she is paid to do. At least that should be the relationship between the professor and the university. If not allowing recording inhibits the learning process, that is a very se
Re:If I paid fees to attend the lecture... (Score:3, Interesting)
On top of that, actual questions could be answered from TAs, or perhaps the professor himself or herself.
It makes you think about what is happening to education, and if this is a good or bad thing.
Thoughts?
Re:If I paid fees to attend the lecture... (Score:4, Informative)
Couldn't everyone just save a lot of time and just email everyone the stupid lecture? Or for that matter, why bother leaving home at all? Just take it online.
While maybe this might appeal to some
Frankly I think that the new "notebook" document type in MS Office, which combines an audio recording with typed notes and knows where in the recording the notes were taken, is potentially more useful for students than an iPod recorder, because it combines regular notetaking skills with the ability to hear what triggered those notes. And I say this as someone who's not normally a fan of MS products -- it's fairly slick. If you're in an environment where lots of people have laptops and bring them to class, this might have a greater impact in the long run than a bunch of iPods. The impact where I am has been limited, because people don't bring laptops to class very often.
Illusory benefits (Score:5, Insightful)
Some of the most popular student uses included recording lectures, taking oral notes, and even using the devices to create electronic flash cards.
Professors reported that students seemed more engaged in classes where they could use the iPods. They also cited strong student use of the audio capabilities of the iPod in their presentations, and more accuracy in quoting from interviews they did using the iPods.
How long will this last? If a new device comes out, an iPod-killer so to speak, will students require those to succeed in school? If so, this says more about students and the education system than about iPods and their perceived educational benefits.
Re:Illusory benefits (Score:2, Interesting)
Contrary to the stated comment, I noticed that most students would just relax, relying on the tape to be able to take the test later on in the year. They were less concentrated, and *my* job was more difficult into getting everybody's attention.
So after my first year, I've sworn not to let any electronical device interfere with my teaching. I've had very little complaint
Re:Illusory benefits (Score:2)
I can't really imagine having a problem with the recordings for IP reasons though - it's not like lectures contain information that is not available elsewhere. I mean are they selling them or using them to learn from? Is there some black market for university lecture tapes than I'm unaware of?
Re:Illusory benefits (Score:2)
As for the black market part of it, at least in France you're not very far away from reality. Actualy, I know that some professors sell the rights to reproduce paper copies of the lectures to the 'fratern
I pray (Score:2, Funny)
Why iPods? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why iPods? (Score:2)
Re:Why iPods? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Why iPods? (Score:3, Interesting)
Store lectures
Store conversations (for language)
Audio flashcards (for any subject)
Audio books (for stories)
Performances (for actors and storytellers)
Re:Why iPods? (Score:3, Informative)
And there's this: http://www.hackaday.com/entry/1234000147025394/
YES! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:YES! (Score:2, Funny)
$40,000, now THAT's tuition.
Re:YES! (Score:2, Funny)
iPods in Classrooms (Score:5, Funny)
Huh? Sorry, I was listening to my iPod while you were talking...
Not exactly (Score:3, Funny)
Hey. The Apple section is just a shilling section. (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, amazing. How is using a modded iPod (they can't record out of the box) different from using a tape recorder? The hard disk? Whoop-dee-fuckin'-do.
In my day (Score:2)
Unclear about the reason for the article (Score:3, Interesting)
I stikes me that this is the result of, "hey, I have a great idea... let's give all the frosh iPods!"
"Uh, what will they do with them?"
"I dunno, we'll figure something out."
It sure seems like the Duke program could have been better thought out, though sometimes the best ideas for a device are not envisioned by its creators, so something good may come from this.
Wht I really want to know is why the fvck does Duke, a school that costs a gazillion dollars a year, need to get a grant to give its students iPods?
Why just iPod, why not any recorder? (Score:2)
How is it different from bringing any other type of voice recorder, digital or analog, into a lecture and recording it and then sharing THAT recording? Does the fact that it's digital make a difference? That it's being done on an iPod? Is it ease
If Duke students were given tape recorders or any other brand of MP3 player with voice recording, would it STILL be an issue/article?
Permission from whom? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Permission from whom? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Permission from whom? (Score:3, Interesting)
Still confused?
It may be that the law protects the IP for professors. I don't know. But somehow I think it has a lot to do with the policy of the university. Unless the professors have a
IP Attorney is a dolt... (Score:2, Informative)
Lectures, by and large, are NOT fixed in a tangible medium... unless the professor is literally reading word-for-word from his notes, the lecture has not been fixed into a tangible medium and is therefore not subject to copyright.
In fact, it only becomes subject to copyright when it is recorded on the iPod (and is fixed in a tangible medium).
Depending on whether a classroom is considered a "public area" this could mean that the student, not the prof
Re: (Score:2)
You Are Not Your Gadgets (Score:4, Interesting)
I was in college in the early 90's and recorded my lectures on a $30 tape recorder--and it did me no good. Recording lectures doesn't help everyone. I also didn't have a computer. I had a 3.5gpa though so I did something right.
Neat gadgets do not make you a good student.
Re:You Are Not Your Gadgets (Score:3, Insightful)
Some people remember things better when they hear them. A lot of people are the opposite way. You could tell me your name 30 times before I remembered it. But if you're wearing a name tag and I read it once, I'll probably never forget it. The human brain is a stran
Re:You Are Not Your Gadgets (Score:5, Funny)
The trick is to also play them back. Recording alone just doesn't do it.
Let me go on record for a moment to say: (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Let me go on record for a moment to say: (Score:2, Funny)
Permission (Score:2, Interesting)
Also, how many people outside of those in the class are interested in it anyway?
I've found (Score:2)
what country again? (Score:2, Insightful)
No it's frigging not. I'm not in America.
Please repeat after me: "Other countries than America exist."
Useful in teaching languages (Score:5, Informative)
http://segue.middlebury.edu/sites/achapin-ipod [middlebury.edu]
The two uses are as follows:
1. Give students mobile access to our databases of tens of thousands of vocabulary audio files while using the rating system to sort known versus unknown vocabulary.
2. Allow students to record and hear themselves speaking vocabulary and other exercises.
Audiobooks (Score:2, Insightful)
I highly doubt one lecture will take more than 200MB? Unless... nah, no professor can be THAT boring...
Pity iPod Recording Quality is *So* Poor (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Pity iPod Recording Quality is *So* Poor (Score:2)
Oh wait... I made a poopie.
Do Some Research (Score:5, Informative)
Your analogy is flawed or, rather, you are too passive. These are not "third party dongles", these are licensed and manufactured in partnership with Apple (that provides the firmware support and allows access to the iPod's innards). You don't get Apple's blessing, you don't get very far. Look at the incredibly slow progress the iPod Linux [ipodlinux.org] has made relative to, say, RockBox [rockbox.org]. This is because Apple actively works to lock out unauthorised development.
The iPod's hardware seems well capable of supporting high-fidelity recording, both analog and digital. The PortalPlayer PP5002B chipset (and derivatives on current models) used in all the big iPods since the early days is capable, according to PortalPlayer itself, of encoding MP3, WAV, AIFF, WMA, and ATRAC3 at up to 320Kbit/s [neuron.com].
A little over a year ago iPods switched to the Wolfson WM8731L ADC/DAC [eetimes.com] ($5 each in small lots!), which can sample at 44.1kHz, 48kHz or 96kHz [wolfsonmicro.com]. I haven't kept up with current iPod offerings because they are of little interest to me but I would assume Apple has not regressed on the ADC capabilities. It's hard these days to spend more than $3 on a signal chip and *not* get high-quality ADC. I note that most of the other players based on a similar PortalPlayer/Wolfson platform (eg Samsung, Philips, iRiver) offer high-fidelity recording.
So you see you are wrong. The iPod's lack of high-fidelity sound recording is not the fault of "third party dongles", it is not a limitation of iPod hardware, it is simply that Apple has chosen to intentionally limit the available quality of the recording function. As to why Apple would choose to cripple the iPod this way, many people probably have different opinions on that. personally, I feel that it's Apple's way of making nice with the RIAA.
As a lecturer (Score:2)
The real issue... (Score:5, Funny)
I mean, just think about it... The student might some day be a lecturer himself, so what right does he have to distribute the IP he may have memorized?
I wonder why for example NSTA [nsta.org] hasn't taken such a firm stand on IP issues, like MPAA and RIAA have. Such lackluster attitude towards these serious issues will undermine the future of modern society!
Re:The real issue... (Score:2)
Apple is paying for this (Score:3, Interesting)
A: "Apple is providing project management expertise and technical and functional resources."
legal issues? (Score:5, Informative)
Copyright issues? WTF??? (Score:5, Informative)
Title 17, 102(1): [copyright.gov]
(a) Copyright protection subsists, in accordance with this title, in original works of authorship fixed in any tangible medium of expression
The spoken word is not a tangible medium of expression.
When it is recorded, the recording can qualify for copyright protection (if it's original enough, and meets all the other requirements), but that copyright belongs to the person making the recording, not the person being recorded.
There can be other issues regarding the use of someone's voice, but those are not copyright issues.
The professors quoted in this article desperately need a remedial course in copyright law.
Re:Copyright issues? WTF??? (Score:5, Insightful)
Put it another way, reading a piece of copyrighted text doesn't instantly make that text public domain.
Re:Copyright issues? WTF??? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Copyright issues? WTF??? (Score:5, Insightful)
That being said, in regards to copyright law as it stands (all Berne convention signatories) the parent is wrong. Speech may in fact be in-eligible for copyright. However, the prof most likely made notes, and otherwise prepared for his lecture. These are eligible for copyright and gain copyright protected status the momment they are created. The recording of the lecture could be considered a derivative work of the profs preparatory work. Thus both the recorder and the prof would have copy control over the recording and it would require both their consent to further distribute it.
IANAL. Any laywers or other IANAL's please correct me.
Re:Copyright issues? WTF??? (Score:2)
Re:Copyright issues? WTF??? (Score:3, Insightful)
Sure, but the notes and outlines his lectures are based off of are a tangible medium of expression.
that copyright belongs to the person making the recording, not the person being recorded.
Copyright requires creative expression. Simply recording something does not a creative expression make. I've never seen anything that would indicate that this is true, and I have several books that were dictated to someone else, and the copyright was listed as th
Students will listen to a whole lecture...right... (Score:2, Insightful)
Duke either has an IP lawyer with too much time on his/her hands (probably) or a few p
Maybe not Copyright.. (Score:2)
In Massachusetts, where I live, it's against the law to record someone speaking without their permission.
Re:Maybe not Copyright.. (Score:2)
university gives students recording device
university either has something in place that allows them to have lectures recorded, or allows them to allow others to record.
No problem. Either that or the university's lawyers should be flogged.
A horrible, terrible program (Score:5, Insightful)
- They've got lots of middle-to-upper-middle class students with parents that are paying for college. The students often have a large part of the decision power.
- Duke offers the students iPods to buy their vote of approval, then simply tacks on a few hundred to the bill. (and don't give me any crap about it not adding to the bill. It's someones money spent on something that could have been spent somewhere else. That's that)
- Students go to Duke
- Profit
Being a high school, senior fresh out (almost) of the application process, I see that this fits Duke's reputation among high school students extremely well. Duke is very popular among the jock/suburban/upper middle class kid kinda person. People who've got life going pretty easily and all that really matters is the schools good sports teams and the "cool" factor.Re:A horrible, terrible program (Score:2)
Re:A horrible, terrible program (Score:4, Insightful)
The parent actually does make a good point. That fact that you go to Duke and believe that you are so intellectually superior that you and Duke were meant for one another regardless of the promised trinkets has nothing to do with the truth in his argument.
Students considering Duke will be smart or, as you have pointin particular concerning round-ball sports. It is common knnowledge, though apparently not to Duke enrollees, that colleges at the top levels of academics are in fierce competition for the smartest, most successful students. It is also common knowledge that practically all colleges at this level have very similar tuition and fees. An interview session I had with an MIT examiner (many years ago) admitted as much.
So, here's how it stacks up:
1) Great academics - very nearly equal
2) Quality of Envorinment - Varies a good bit
3) Cool bonuses
4) Price of education - very nearly equal
(You'll notice cast is #4. That's 'cause there are a lot of kids for whom cost is no object. It's somehting for the parents to worry about. Maybe no t in your case, but is quite a few.)
If you've got acceptance letters from three or four Ivy league schools, you're probably choosing based on the "little things." Nice campus, close/far from home, close to "fun", whatever. All but the anti-social have a little voice in the back of their teen mind saying "choose the 'cool' school."
Now, by standard marketing logic:
iPods are hip.
Duke gives iPods to new students.
Duke is hip.
No, not everyone will fall for this ploy. But SOME WILL. It doesn't make them bad, it makes them human. And Duke will get a few extra of that "top-notch" pool that all schools covet.
iPods are no more useful in the classroom than any handheld digital recorder, and a bit less useful because of the iPod->computer path obstacles. It has lots of uses, but no more than any digital recorder. It's a marketing ply, and nothing else. iPod takes "cool" and makes it "really cool".
*shrug*
Question (Score:2, Funny)
Do lawyers actually have the right to make work by stirring up trouble and finding reasons to sue people? Isn't that a bit like an auto body shop that covers the streets in nails & broken glass?
In my day... (Score:2)
An iPod has more computing power and storage than the entire undergraduate computing center did back then.
In my opinion, students should buy their own iPods, if they want them.
Lawyers.... (Score:5, Insightful)
This is almost funny, I thought that sharing knowledge is what learning is all about! Is there no limit to what these slimebag IP lawyers will try to profit from? What will these intrepid legal eagles tackle next? After all one might actually argue that the process of learning is coping, or downloading somebody elses IP into ones brain. Will students still have permission to record lectures with their brains or do his concerns with IP theft end with iPods and tape recorders?
One thing I am sure of, I wish digital voice recording had been this easy back when I was at Uni. If I was a Uni student today I would definetly record all key lectures with my iPod and store them on my Linux boxen and I could care less about IP.
Permission from the school or the prof (Score:2)
Wrong tool for the job (Score:2)
How about a Palm? Pocket PC? Treo? Creative Nomad, Olympus dictaphone for Pete's sake? Lots more features designed to assist you plan, organise and take notes, moreso than an iPod. Even cheaper Flash players have built in dictaphones, radios and suchlike. Probably cheaper too - a Palm has Bluetooth a camera, voice recording. See what students can do with that
We at Duke agree (Score:5, Informative)
iPod Experiment [duke.edu]
Duke iPod program to continue next year [duke.edu]
Also, you can go to The Chronicle [duke.edu] and search the archives for "iPod" and get any number of negative student editorials on the topic. Basically, all of us at Duke agreed that the project was a marketing campaign, plain and simple; on the other hand, you won't see us complaining. We got free (as in, paid for by a fund accumulated from previous years) iPods, and next year's freshmen will get them if they take the appropriate classes.
In addition, Carolina can go to hell. Go Devils :-P
Re:iPod vs. tape recorders (Score:2)
Maybe it's because now they will be able to make..." a ton of money on various consulting and legal fees.
Mark
Re:iPod vs. tape recorders (Score:2)
Maybe next time I should just type one sentence instead.
Oh well, here's hoping for an offtopic as well!
Re:So how is this any different (Score:5, Insightful)
Unless you're really fast at shorthand and are taking dictation, handwritten notes aren't a verbatim copy of what was said but rather the important points that you think you ought to remember.
Re:So how is this any different (Score:2)
That depends in part on how good a lecturer the professor is, in particular how many false starts and tangents s/he takes.
A student can waste a lot of time and effort on a 2 minute digression that sounds relevant but turns out to meaningless in context.
An accurate record (tape, MP3, hired court reporter, genetically engineered super-parrot, whatever) lets you make several passes through the lecture, separating the wheat from the chaff.
I suspect that t
Re:They sure are. (Score:2, Informative)
There is also a Gameboy/Gameboy Color emulator and a *gasp* SNES emulator (although it's too slow on current processors).
- NES Emulator [vampent.com]
- GB/GBC Emulator [vampent.com]
- SNES Emulator [vampent.com]
Re:stupid questions (Score:5, Insightful)
Consider history books. The events described may have occured a thousand years ago, but the book itself is still under copyright.
Re:Headline: MPAA Sues Man Over His Memories (Score:3, Interesting)