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Music Media Businesses

P2P Users More Likely to Cheat, Shoplift 614

Posted by Zonk from the you'll-get-hairy-palms-too dept.
prostoalex writes "New research report (sponsored by the recording industry, so should definitely be objective) suggests that those who download music online are also likely to cheat at schools/universities and to shoplift. From the Globe and Mail: 'Not only does music file-swapping harm artists, but it also points to an erosion of respect for intellectual property that threatens Canada's economy and values at the core of our society,' said Graham Henderson, president of the Canadian Recording Industry Association, which commissioned the polls."
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P2P Users More Likely to Cheat, Shoplift More

P2P Users More Likely to Cheat, Shoplift

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  • P2P: the new gateway drug. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TripMaster Monkey ( 862126 ) * on Friday September 30, 2005 @10:15AM (#13684867)

    This "study" referenced in the TFA is so poisonously misleading I barely know where to begin.

    From TFA:
    Canadians between the ages of 18 and 29 are much more willing than other age groups to make illegal copies of software programs, cheat on exams or even shoplift, an Environics poll suggests.
    Regarding the first two statistics, perhaps that because (a) they're the ones to use the software programs the most, and (b), they're the ones in school. Regarding the last point, the actual figures were 6%, as opposed to 2% of the general population. With a poll base of only 2,043 individuals, and an error range of 3.1 percentage points plus or minus, one can seriously question the validity of this last statistic. Add this to the fact that teens have been shoplifting since the invention of the 'shop', and this statistic quickly becomes meaningless.

    What's especially nauseating about this "study" is that it attempts to establish a causual connection between increased P2P file sharing and these other, 'antisocial' activities:

    Again from TFA:
    "Not only does music file-swapping harm artists, but it also points to an erosion of respect for intellectual property that threatens Canada's economy and values at the core of our society," said Graham Henderson, president of the Canadian Recording Industry Association, which commissioned the polls.
    Repeat after me: Correlation does not imply causation.

    • Re:P2P: the new gateway drug. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Compholio ( 770966 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @10:20AM (#13684940)
      Young people 'steal' music, young people steal stuff. Therefore, 'stealing music' (leads to)/(increases the probability of) stealing stuff. Someone should give these people an award, for stupidity.

      • Re:P2P: the new gateway drug. (Score:5, Funny)

        by indifferent children ( 842621 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @11:01AM (#13685525)
        Has the RIAA commissioned a study to see if young people are more likely to hijack ocean-going vessels? After all, piracy is piracy.

      • I WOULD believe... Re:P2P: the new gateway drug. (Score:4, Insightful)

        by kibbylow ( 257730 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @11:32AM (#13685883)
        I would be more inclined to believe that cheaters and shoplifters are more likely to download copyrighted material.

        However, I'm not sure where the article even talks about P2P users being more likely to cheat or shoplift. It talks about Canadians 18-29 being more likely than the general population to do these acts.

        • Darn Canadian PSP users! (Score:5, Funny)

          by BigDogCH ( 760290 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @11:56AM (#13686150) Journal
          I was just thinking the same thing, so I guess we should conclude that we should never trust Canadians ages 18-29. I never trusted them anyway. :)

          Actually, I first read the post as PSP Users More Likely to Cheat, Shoplift. I was really starting to wonder. Actually, I read it 4x, and didn't catch the error until reading a few comments. Darn those Canadian PSP users, the hosers!

          • Actually, I first read the post as PSP Users More Likely to Cheat, Shoplift. I was really starting to wonder. Actually, I read it 4x, and didn't catch the error until reading a few comments. Darn those Canadian PSP users, the hosers!

            The funny thing is that the report would have remained at the exact same level of "validity" if it indeed were changed to say PSP users. People in the ages 18-29 are probably more likely to use PSPs than people of other ages, just as they are most likely to be using P2P so

        • Re:I WOULD believe... Re:P2P: the new gateway drug (Score:5, Funny)

          by antiMStroll ( 664213 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @01:24PM (#13687175)
          Would you also be inclined to believe copyright holders drink harder and do more cocaine? After all, look at musicians. Don't even get me started on Roman Polanski.
    • "Not only does music file-swapping harm artists, but it also points to an erosion of respect for intellectual property that threatens Canada's economy and values at the core of our society," said Graham Henderson, president of the Canadian Recording Industry Association, which commissioned the polls.

      Repeat after me: Correlation does not imply causation.

      Where in that quote are they saying that file swapping causes people to do these things? It sounds to me like they are saying that people who do those kinds
      • That quote can be read both ways. He's not flat out saying that File Sharing -> more petty crime. He's saying that File Sharing points at a loss of values.

        Make no mistake, Mr Henderson wants you to believe that File Sharing is a cause.

      • Re:P2P: the new gateway drug. (Score:5, Funny)

        by MCraigW ( 110179 ) <`craig' `at' `mcraigweaver.com'> on Friday September 30, 2005 @11:23AM (#13685774) Homepage
        Where in that quote are they saying that file swapping causes people to do these things?

        What they are implying is that being Canadian causes people to have poor moral standards... Now who can argue with that?

      • Re:P2P: the new gateway drug. (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Rei ( 128717 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @11:51AM (#13686084) Homepage
        It sounds to me like they are saying that people who do those kinds of things are more likely to file swap

        Actually, it's even worse: assuming the article is correct, it found that the *age group* of people who commit the most piracy are the same *age group* that commits the most shoplifting. I.e., they didn't even find a correlation between piracy and shoplifting, only that "teens are the most likely to commit piracy" (obvious - they use the net the most) and "teens are the most likely to shoplift, although they're not very likely to" (also obvious, and a long historical fact), but *not* that "teens who commit piracy are those who are most likely to shoplift".

        One thing that raises big flags is that if they *did* find a correlation between those who commit piracy and those who shoplift, it wasn't stated. Are we to believe that they didn't bother to check for a correlation after conducting this sort of poll? That stretches credibility. It seems likely, then, that they found *no* correlation, and so simply stated that they're in the same "age group" to try and suggest to readers that there *is* a correlation where there is none.

    • As we all know, the Domino Theory is correct! You start with Beijing. Then, Pyongyang. Soon after, the Commies are in Saigon. The next thing you know, Comrade, they'll be marching down Main Street in Omaha!!!

      In this case, all of Canadian brats will soon be lahying in the streets of Ottowa with needles sticking out of their arms....

      • Re:P2P: the new gateway drug. (Score:5, Funny)

        by Simonetta ( 207550 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @10:26AM (#13685048)
        When I was young, the US president Johnson told us that if the young men did not volunteer to 'serve' in Vietnam, then after the communists 'won', tens of thousands of Vietnamese would come here and take our jobs.
            Well the young men refused to go to Vietnam, the communists 'won', and sure enough, tens of thousands of Vietnamese did come to the US and take our jobs.
            I'll never doubt the government again.

    • Re:P2P: the new gateway drug. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by rlthomps-1 ( 545290 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @10:21AM (#13684954) Homepage
      It bewilders me to think that the Recording industry is wasting their money sponsoring crap studies that paint their customers as theives instead of genuinely trying to understand their changing userbase to better serve them and thus MAKE MORE MONEY.

      Seriously, who is running these companies and why are investors not extremely upset about this?
      • People who get music online without paying for it aren't "customers."
      • Your bewilderment may vanish once you understand that they really don't care about their customers. In fact, they don't care about music either, nor the artists. This is the societal ill called unrestrained businessmen. May be fine for the factory or bank, but it's without a doubt bad for culture and other concerns of a society's life. I listened to a lecture the other day by a noted historian about the mass society, the mass-consumer society. One of the things she mentioned was that there used to be a time

    • Re:P2P: the new gateway drug. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by bedroll ( 806612 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @10:22AM (#13684971) Journal
      They have a defense, though. Read it again, there isn't a single absolute statement made to correlate the two. Everything suggests that these factors correlate. This is the weakest worded article I've read in quite some time. It's apparently meant as flamebait and to sway the weak-minded.

    • Re:P2P: the new gateway drug. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by garcia ( 6573 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @10:22AM (#13684975)
      Not only does music file-swapping harm artists, but it also points to an erosion of respect for intellectual property that threatens Canada's economy and values at the core of our society," said Graham Henderson, president of the Canadian Recording Industry Association, which commissioned the polls.

      Not only does the RIAA/CRIA harm artists they also have little respect for their own customers which threatens new and interesting music which is at the core of music value!

    • Re:P2P: the new gateway drug. (Score:5, Funny)

      by pizzaman100 ( 588500 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @10:23AM (#13684980) Journal
      In related news, 42% of teenagers in the survey expressed an interest in illegally obtaining alcoholic beverages, while this figure dropped to 0% for those aged 21 and older. Thereby proving that downloading music causes under aged drinking. ;)
    • Repeat after me: Correlation does not imply causation.

      Yes, it's like this classic example:

      Increased ice cream sales in NYC on a given day linked to increased crime rate.

      Of course if it's hot out, both ice cream sales and crime are going to increase but they have nothing to do with each other directly.
      • What you are referring to is the common cause fallacy. The two statistics are linked, because they are caused by the same thing.

        In the case the article talks about, the common cause of music downloading and shoplifting may be that those people are young, or don't have money.
    • I once heard that the demographic most likely to shoplift, (at least in the US) was middle aged white women. Of course that's also the demographic that does the most shopping...

    • in another NEWS FLASH.... (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Car theives around the world have a statistically higher probability of carrying a wire coat hanger on their persons. Wire coat hangers subsequently banned, chaos ensues as clothes around the world now heaped in piles on the floor. Crowbars told to watch themselves or face similar consequences.

    • those who download music online are also likely to cheat at schools/universities...

      Just last week I was surfing the coder-for-hire sites, and, in addition to the ridiculous, asinine demands people were making [$100,000 projects for opening bids of $100 - the sort of thing that would starve an already emaciated Bangalorean peasant], I was just appalled at the number of spoiled, self-obsessed, ingrate college students who were advertising for coders to write their CompSci and Engineering projects for them.

      • I was just appalled at the number of spoiled, self-obsessed, ingrate college students who were advertising for coders to write their CompSci and Engineering projects for them. What the hell ever happened to academic integrity?

        What do you mean? Our culture teaches people that money can buy you anything, therefore all you should try to get is money. A college degree is simply a ticket to get a good paying job. If you could buy them outright, people would do so. (And in fact, with degree mills, that'
    • "New research report suggests that those who make up false claims in scientific reports are also likely to cheat at schools/universities and to shoplift. From the Globe and Mail: 'Not only does sponsored science harm real scientists, but it also points to an erosion of respect for intellectual property that threatens Canada's economy and values at the core of our society."
    • From everything I've read about Environics, they have to be the most idiotic polling company on the planet...which is saying something. Read some of their polls and you'll see that the answer they are looking for frames their questions to the point of rediculousness. Clearly their clients are paying for these results.

      Most polling companies are bad but these guys have to be the worst. Who gives a shit what they say?

  • shoplift? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 30, 2005 @10:16AM (#13684887)
    who the hell would shoplift when you can just download anything you really need?

  • Other Way Around (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Azarael ( 896715 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @10:17AM (#13684889) Homepage
    Maybe those types of people that are more likely to cheat, etc are drawn to P2P. Classic example of correlation vs causality.

    • Re:Other Way Around (Score:5, Funny)

      by Stevyn ( 691306 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @10:28AM (#13685082)
      Well everyone I know who robs banks for a drives very fast while leaving the scene. So I really hope auto manufacturers address this problem and stop making fast cars. These fast cars are costing the FDIC millions. Hell, there should be a "bank robbery fine" on all speeding tickets worth 4 or more points. That'll teach those speeders to stop robbing banks.
    • Whatever. I don't pirate music. I can shell out a freakin' dollar for a song on iTunes. It's time for the pro-piracy contingency on /. to grow up. The "obsolete business model" canard doesn't apply anymore (iTunes and other online services), and the "we're sticking it to the RIAA by making sure artists don't get paid today" canard doesn't work anymore either. At some people, these people need to just admit that all they're doing is freeloading stuff so they don't have to pay for it. "I'm making sure S

  • Misleading subject? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by g051051 ( 71145 ) *
    Perhaps the report should state that people who use P2P for illegal purposes are more likely to commit other crimes. Which is completely logical: if you're willing to commit one type of crime, you're probably more likely to commit others.

    I make occaisional use of P2P, but I don't do illegal things with it.

  • in other news (Score:5, Funny)

    by nuggetman ( 242645 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @10:17AM (#13684896) Homepage
    A more in depth study also indicated that P2P users are also "big doody heads" and that the recording industry's dad could kick the P2P users dad's in a fight

  • Now it all makes sense (Score:5, Funny)

    by Crimsane ( 815761 ) <clarke@nullfs.com> on Friday September 30, 2005 @10:17AM (#13684897) Homepage
    If file swappers are so profficient at all this theft and cheating, music execs must be pretty worried about their job-security.
  • In other news, Microsoft said today that: "Anbody who doesn't buy Microsoft Office is more likely to commit arson or criminal damage".. I mean seriously.. The Canadian record industry telling us that making infringing copies of their music is bad for society is ... well.. not exactly news now is it?

    Simon.

  • In other news.. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 30, 2005 @10:18AM (#13684905)
    Users who don't download music from p2p are more likely not to have internet..

  • Like they say... (Score:5, Funny)

    by archeopterix ( 594938 ) * on Friday September 30, 2005 @10:18AM (#13684907) Journal
    If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination.

    ... and from that to P2P and farting in crowded elevators.

  • If this is true (Score:5, Funny)

    by DDiabolical ( 902284 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @10:18AM (#13684909)
    Why wouldn't they just walk into a record shop and steal the CD?

    Oh yeah, this article is BS..
  • Well, this isn't really surprising, really. Obviously goody-two-shoes who wouldn't even download unlicensed music are not going to be shop lifting. But I think there is a large percentage of people who would download music and would not cheat at school or steal physical things.

    The (paid for by the music industry) study is being totally disingenuous by claming that downloading music causes other criminal behavior, when really it's just a coincidence

  • Badly Written (Score:5, Funny)

    by mysqlrocks ( 783488 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @10:19AM (#13684913) Homepage Journal
    Canadians between 12 and 24 years of age are responsible for 78 per cent of illegal music downloading, even though they make up only 21 per cent of the population, it says.

    I'm sure this is supposed to say "are responsible for 78 per cent of illegal music downloading in Canada". I can't imagine that Canadians are responsible for the majority of illegal music downloading.

  • That's not what it says! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by program21 ( 469995 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @10:19AM (#13684917) Homepage Journal
    From TFA:
    Canadians between 12 and 24 years of age are responsible for 78 per cent of illegal music downloading, even though they make up only 21 per cent of the population, it says.
    ...
    Canadians between the ages of 18 and 29 are much more willing than other age groups to make illegal copies of software programs, cheat on exams or even shoplift, an Environics poll suggests.
    What it does say is that people in the same age group as typical P2P users are more likely to shoplift or cheat. It does not make any correlation between P2P users and these things!
    • Indeed, this link is never made. The article is rather an opinion piece learning us what the authors consider 'bad acts' (shoplifting, downloading, picking your nose,...), and confirming that those who are still young enough to be able to commit them, do so.

  • RIAA Executives (Score:5, Funny)

    by interiot ( 50685 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @10:19AM (#13684918) Homepage
    Can we get a study done on how likely RIAA Executives are to hurt small animals, steal from donation pots, and scowl at old ladies?

  • newsflash! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by gigoguy ( 909575 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @10:19AM (#13684921)
    Extra extra! Read all about it! Children likely to have less rigid morality than adults! Children may or may not understand concept of intellectual property! Extra, Extra!
  • Recording industry executives found to be more likely to spew bull shit, and to commission reports on supporting their bull shit.
    'Not only do recording industry executives harm artists, but it also points to an erosion of respect for people that threatens Canada's economy and values at the core of our society,' said Jim Henson, president of the Canadian Intellectual Artist Association, which commissioned the polls."

  • Michael Geist analysis (Score:5, Informative)

    by LowneWulf ( 210110 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @10:19AM (#13684929)
    http://www.michaelgeist.ca/index.php [michaelgeist.ca] has some good comments on the two recent studies from the CRIA, plus some interesting comments on how various groups have been viewing them.
  • New Study Indicates Strong Correlation Among Men Between CD/DVD Purchases and Amount of Sex
  • would someone point to information that proves or at least more than strongly indicates that P2P file sharing has harmed artists? Yeah, I heard Metallica, but I still haven't seen evidence that musicians are poor because of file sharing, or that they have actually lost money. Does anyone know of studies that actually and truthfully show that this is the case?

    • Too many factors (Score:4, Interesting)

      by jfengel ( 409917 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @10:55AM (#13685432) Homepage Journal
      Such studies are going to be extremely hard to perform, because there are so many hard-to-measure factors involved. It's well known that there have been fewer CD sales in the last few years, but how much of that is due to P2P, legal song-at-a-time downloads, satellite radio, or just plain crappy music is nearly impossible to sort out. They were up last year, but I can't say if that's due to better music or to RIAA lawsuits scaring some people into buying rather than downloading (or even crappy accounting designed to convince RIAA shareholders that their campaigns are working).

      Personally, I put the burden of proof on the music sharers. Given that the people who paid to have the music made have asked them not to do it, "prove to me that I'm costing you money" seems like the wrong way around. (And I'm tangentially involved in a band; I know how expensive it is to get an album made and promoted.)

      I do not doubt that at least some CD sales have been lost to P2P. That seems pretty straightforward: at least some poeple who would have bought an album have instead chosen to download it (or part of it) for free. So there's very good reason to believe that at least some money has been lost.

      Combine the two (you'd expect file sharing to lower CD sales, and CD sales have fallen), and that's as close to "actually and truthfully show[ing] that this is the case" as you're likely to get. It's not genuine proof, as I'm sure everybody is likely to remind me in their replies, but it seems strong enough to me to put the burden of proof on the shoulders of those who contend that file sharing isn't immoral.

      Has it harmed artists? That's even harder to say. How many fewer bands do less-profitable recording labels sign? Even the bands that they do sign receive a negligible sum for actual CD sales, but do people go to concerts or buy merchandise from bands they've downloaded but weren't willing to pay for? I can't even begin to tell you how to measure that. There are so many bands (so, so many) and such a small chance of making any real money off of it that it's nearly impossible to measure how much they've been harmed, helped, or otherwise.

      At least one band I know likes it when you download their music; it means you're listening and may even go to a club to see them or buy a tee-shirt. But the fact that many people would download their music anyway, even if they weren't fine with that, bugs the hell out of them.
  • Young people are more likely to use P2P than older people. Young people are more likely to be students/pupils than old people. Students are more likely to cheat in school than non-students. Correlations proves causation. News at 12.
    • Reminds me of the D&D studies done while I was in college... D&D players were more likely to do marijuana, more likely to commit suicide, etc.. No different from the high correlation between shoe size and the ability to do math problems in Kindergarten to 5th graders.
  • P2P is a gateway dru... crime. A crime of passion. One starts by downloading illegally, then on to harder stuff.

  • Canadian Content (Score:3, Insightful)

    by _am99_ ( 445916 ) * on Friday September 30, 2005 @10:22AM (#13684973)
    The CRIA is a poorly funded wannabe RIAA that complains about everything. They already have enough supporting laws and programs on the books. And now that there is enough focus on these issues, they are not going to get anymore.

    Canadians are taxed on all blank CDR media to offset the loss of piracy, and since the Canadian content laws under our version of the FCC are the only thing that keeps a lot of crappy Canadian content on the air, and since most of it is funded with our tax dollars, the CRIA can kiss my cold Canadian A*S!

    Many Canadian content providers and distributers shield themselves from real competition thru backwards isolationalist-style trade-restriction-like programs and law.

    Government funding allows tax dollars to be sophened to companies that produce content that usually SUCKS - as along as it meets the "Canadian content" requirements by mentioning curling or the Toronto Maple Leafs.

    At the same time, broadcasters are limited in what they can show because they have to be inline with another set of rules that dictates a percentage limit on the amount of non-Canadian content they can broadcast.

    So we have cable providers that suck, a lot of content that sucks, and it is all subsidized by our own tax dollars.

    All that being said, aside from not being able to get American TV legally, and having the same climate as upstate New York (in Toronto at least), it is still the best place to live in the North America - IMHO.

    With all of this Canada self-bashing, I should point out a couple of examples of Canadian content at its finest. Here are two artists that are proud to be Canadian, and are world class for sure - highly worth checking out:

        1) Esthero - a voice and songwriter like no other
        2) K-os - hip-hop with real instruments, who's quality is unmatched

  • Puppies too! (Score:2, Funny)

    by niew ( 133188 )

    "...suggests that those who download music online are also likely to cheat at schools/universities and to shoplift."

    They probably kill puppies too...


  • Just last week I was surfing the coder-for-hire sites, and, in addition to the ridiculous, asinine demands people were making [$100,000 projects for opening bids of $100 - the sort of thing that would starve an already emaciated Bangalorean peasant], I was just appalled at the number of spoiled, self-obsessed, ingrate college students who were advertising for coders to write their CompSci and Engineering projects for them.

    What the hell ever happened to academic integrity?

    • I was just appalled at the number of spoiled, self-obsessed, ingrate college students who were advertising for coders to write their CompSci and Engineering projects for them. What the hell ever happened to academic integrity?

      Ah, that's nothin' new. Go dredge the USENET archives for comp.lang.c and you'll find a steady supply of nimrods saying "I need to write a program to [insert Comp Sci project here]-- does anyone have a source listing for something that does this?" These posts are easily identified

  • Bah... BS math. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by XorNand ( 517466 ) * on Friday September 30, 2005 @10:23AM (#13684989)
    "Not only does music file-swapping harm artists, but it also points to an erosion of respect for intellectual property that threatens Canada's economy and values at the core of our society," said Graham Henderson, president of the Canadian Recording Industry Association, which commissioned the polls.
    Even assuming that this study is valid, this is pretty much a non-story since causation hasn't been linked. I'm sure that industry is trying to spin it the same way as marijunana is blamed as a "gateway drug", e.g.: "Parents! Better watch your kids; if they're pirating music today, odds are it'll lead to a life of cheating and stealing."
    Canadians between 12 and 24 years of age are responsible for 78 per cent of illegal music downloading, even though they make up only 21 per cent of the population, it says.
    Any how was this determined? Extrapolating musical tastes? Asking anonymous P2P users their ages? I'd really question their methodology.
    The illegal downloading has cost retail music stores more than half a billion dollars in lost sales since 1999, a study by Pollara for the recording industry estimates.
    Again, how do you determine the difference between someone who downloaded instead of buying (legit lost sale) and someone who only downloaded in the first place because it was free (lost sale only via mystical accounting practices)?

    How do I start my own polling firm where I get paid to tell clients what they want to hear? Seems like a sweet gig.
  • When I worked for an online company providing VoIP service, we became aware of "carding", or swapping / generating credit card numbers for the sake of obtaining merchandise for "free".

    I visited some on-line forums and was rather shocked by what I read. First of all, it seemed like none of the people who participated in this activity thought that it was wrong. In fact, many of them justified the action by referring to the victims as "suckers" (meaning, it's acceptable to screw people who are "stupid" enoug

  • 2 words (Score:2)

    by Mock ( 29603 )
    bull
    shit

  • Newsflash: Teenagers download more (Score:5, Funny)

    by infolib ( 618234 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @10:24AM (#13685008)
    "Downloading may turn you into a teenager" a scientist in lab coat commented. "We may have stumbled upon the fountain of youth".
  • I hope the people coming up with the ideas of guilt by association etc get well paid.

    This was an incredible creative (and sick) idea. Microsoft should hire them.

    Soon they will probably copy medieval propaganda about the jews and say that file sharers eat christian babies. :-)

  • Advertising executives, recording industry flacks, and marketers are more likely than high school or college students to abuse their spouses or children, to be long-term (10 years or more) alcoholics, to be involved in health care fraud, or to rape or sexually assault their maids or nannies.

    Now, most people would consider rape and domestic violence to be more severe offenses than copyright violation. So clearly there needs to be much greater law-enforcement attention paid to the high-risk demographic cate

  • Sponsored studies (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Bullfish ( 858648 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @10:27AM (#13685054)
    This all just really goes to show that knowing who sponsored the study is more important often than the results. I took a journalism course once and had an assignment to check out a study about how milk sold in plastic bags went bad faster than in opaque cartons. Thing is, I found that it took a couple of days to go bad, had to be exposed to light (yeah, the fridge light does go out when you shut the door) and only two per cent of the milk sold at the time as sold in these plastic sacks. The study was, however, sponsored by ex-cello who just happen to make - opaque milk cartons.

    A lot of these studies a crap and presented as fact and are not to be taken seriously. They exist to push an organization's viewpoint while deceiving the public as to their true nature.

    Look no further than the tobacco company studies that show nicotine is not addictive. Yeah right, and beer causes cancer in asbestos workers.

  • Poor Billy (Score:2, Funny)

    by KSobby ( 833882 )
    Police Man: Billy, what made you take that pack of gum?
    Billy: Kazaa made me do it! Oh yeah, and the Hot Coffee mod too!

    10 days later we see Billy on a caribbean island sipping a Shirley Temple wearing a tee shirt saying "This trip paid for by the RIAA."

    Parents, don't let your children grow up to be statisticians. They help to turn out spurious crap reports like this.

  • P2P will EAT your children! (Score:3, Funny)

    by BJZQ8 ( 644168 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @10:27AM (#13685069) Homepage Journal
    I can no longer sit back and allow...P2P infiltration, P2P subversion, and the international P2P conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids!

    Do you realize that in addition to P2P-ing music, why, there are studies underway to P2P video, software, news, soup, sugar, milk... ice cream. Ice cream, Mandrake, children's ice cream.

  • ROFL (Score:2)

    by HunterZ ( 20035 )
    FTA:
    The effect of the piracy, however, does not stop at just music or movies, suggests a study from another polling firm.

    Canadians between the ages of 18 and 29 are much more willing than other age groups to make illegal copies of software programs, cheat on exams or even shoplift, an Environics poll suggests.

    First off, they polled people to determine how likely people are to commit various crimes? Second, it doesn't say who they polled in that particular poll. For all we know Environics went to some neighb
  • I'm just dying for the RIAA to catch wind of this and pervert the study that says downloaders are more likely to buy CDs from the artists they download.

    RIAA: Well of course P2P users have a lot of CDs from the bands they download...because they stole the CDs!

    And then riots will brake out with all the angry labels brandishing pitchforks pointed at the evil haX0rz!
    </completeandtotalexageration>
  • Come on folks. As Michael Geist's [michaelgeist.ca] website says, the major Canadian newspaper's (Globe & Mail, Ottawa Citizen, etc.) aren't even covering the article. Even though a lot of bullshit stories get printed and tossed in your yard, this one is just weighing in too heavy with idiocy.
  • The study's not right. It's not even wrong.

    How can you argue with someone who has such an utter disregard to logic?

  • In related news... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Entanglebit ( 882066 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @10:30AM (#13685106)
    In related news, users of Microsoft Windows found to use excessive foul language.

  • You get the kind of customers you market to (Score:3, Insightful)

    by p_conrad ( 118670 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @10:32AM (#13685128)
    Can you really fault a kid for wanting to steal the latest copy Gangsta Rap Knee-Cap? The music glorifies the life of crime, so the would-be customers embrace that ethic by stealing that music. Makes perfect sense to me.

    If the RIAA members want a more mature audience of paying customers, perhaps they should attempt to create a more mature product. Since they obviously aren't going to do that, they should just accept the shrinkage and price accordingly, like every other business in the world.

    My whole life the record companies have been blaming their customers. Home taping was killing music. Bootlegging concerts was killing music, even though there's little interest in official live albums. Now P2P is killing music until the next scapegoat comes along. This is a pretty long swan song, isn't it?

  • Monkeys at typewriters? (Score:3, Funny)

    by mc900ftjesus ( 671151 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @10:35AM (#13685184)
    Is this was gets written when they type for long enough?
  • TFA:" The effect of the piracy, however, does not stop at just music or movies, suggests a study from another polling firm."

    This is the only sentence in the article that implies a cause/effect relationship.

    Despite tons of people on /. apparently misreading TFA and info from the studies, nowhere other than there does it suggest that piracy causes people to shoplift and/or cheat.

    Yes, the studies were sponsored by the CRIA. But that does not necessarily make them invalid.

    Furthermore, I am not surprise

  • p2p is directly correlated to eating disorders. (Score:5, Funny)

    by digitalderbs ( 718388 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @10:37AM (#13685202)
    Since "Canadians between 12 and 24 years of age are responsible for 78 per cent of illegal music downloading" (source [theglobeandmail.com]) and "95% of those who have eating disorders are between the ages of 12 and 25" (source [mentalheal...eening.org]), P2P sharing leads to anorexia. QED.

  • More flaws in the study (Score:3, Informative)

    by dkleinsc ( 563838 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @10:37AM (#13685211) Homepage
    Most people have already pointed out the correlation!=causality problem with this study, but here are a couple of more issues:
    1. This was done via a survey, so what that means is that people who admit to filesharing are more likely to admit to shoplifting and cheating. The "admit to" part is significant and was left out of the findings.

    2. The argument appears to work like this: people 12-25 years old are most like to fileshare, and are most likely to shoplift, so therefor people who are likely to fileshare are likely to shoplift. In other words, A->B, A->C, therefor B->C.

    So my basic interpretation of this one is along the lines of the "masturbation will make you go blind" argument: An utterly false statement that if true would make an otherwise relatively harmless activity seem harmful.

  • FUD (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Idealius ( 688975 )
    ha!

    Look, CRIA.

    I've seen many a good person cheat, shoplift, or download P2P music. (Including myself)

    You will never convince me downloading music makes someone evil. People have vices, some are worse than others. The ones you list are a lot less important than ideals such as "loyalty", avoiding domestic violence, or being finacially responsible.

    Some vices are the result of our environment. The internet is an environment where a new P2P software sharing application can be released every six months, and you c

  • What amuses me.. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by NanoGator ( 522640 ) on Friday September 30, 2005 @10:50AM (#13685375) Homepage Journal
    I guess I'm just not in this statistic. P2P abrubptly stopped in my house when I subscribed to Rhapsody. Where's the study that shows P2P represents a market demand that the RIAA could be making money off of?

  • Smoke user... (Score:3, Funny)

    by alexandre ( 53 ) * on Friday September 30, 2005 @12:14PM (#13686351) Journal
    Smoke user more likely to be pyromaniacs!

    Burn the witch! :D

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