Sony Profits Low, Halts CRT Production 270
mtndue1 writes "Forbes is reporting that with lower than expected profits, Sony is halting the production of CRT's for televisions at many of its plants. The restructuring move is meant to catch the company up with other manufacturers who moved to LCD displays more quickly." From the article: " In the second quarter to September, net profit dropped 46.5 pct to 28.5 bln yen, pressured by 32.3 bln yen in restructuring expenses to write down the impaired value of its cathode-ray tube (CRT) plants. Under the plant closure program, Sony will shut down some of its CRT television assembly factories by March 2008 in order to shift its focus to the flat-screen TV business ... In a bid to revive its game division, Sony plans to release its next-generation stand-alone PlayStation 3 game console in the spring. To speed up development of PlayStation 3, Sony plans to devote 410 bln yen to capital investment in the year to March, up from 356.8 bln yen a year earlier."
Improve quality? (Score:4, Interesting)
Mostly a good thing (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Mostly a good thing (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Mostly a good thing (Score:3, Informative)
You probably baught a cheap LCD. My Sceptre X9 19" 12ms LCD [sceptre.com], cost about 100$ more than the cheapest 19" LCD on the market but the quality is supurb. I can play BF2, wow, quake4, etc.. all look beautiful. 180* turns are flawless with no motion blur. In addition, this particular monitor is shiney/reflective, like a crt, so you get a bit of glare from the sun, but the blacks are truely the most well done i have ever seen.
Where I work we have hundreds
Re:Mostly a good thing (Score:2)
Hz does apply to an LCD in that displayed FPS can never be higher than display update Hz. A LCD won't flicker at 60Hz, but it won't give you perfectly smooth movement either.
Re:Mostly a good thing (Score:2)
Re:Mostly a good thing (Score:2)
But LCDs don't have a refresh rate. They don't redraw the image so many times a second, instead they display an image and change which pixels need changing as necessary. The length of time it takes for a pixel to change color appropriately is called "response time" and over the past few years, LCD response times has improved considerably, to the point where many gaming/hardwar
Re:Mostly a good thing (Score:2)
My mistake.
Re:Mostly a good thing (Score:2)
If I understand the tec
Re:Mostly a good thing (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Mostly a good thing (Score:2, Insightful)
That is why I buy CRTs.
trick for getting good picture at non-native res. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Mostly a good thing (Score:2)
In the slashdot article [slashdot.org] you "read", there was a lengthy discussion about how refresh rate still applies to LCDs, and how the ms response time quoted by manufacturers is essentially useless. Similar to a wattage rating on your consumer amplifier. Whether current LCDs are good enough for games i
Re:Mostly a good thing (Score:4, Informative)
Well, ms and Hz are just two different units of measurement. What they mean by "refresh" is completely different though. For one, a CRT will flicker, an LCD will not at low refresh rates. Furthermore, a CRT will actually refresh exactly so, while an LCD will not (you will see different numbers for gray-gray, black-white-black, averages vs worst case). Not to mention you have ringing caused by trying to speed up the process. Take the "3ms" screen on slashdot here recently, it has 5ms black-to-black, more like 8ms before the ringing stops. Effectively, that means ~125fps, not ~333fps. Realisticly, most people don't notice more than ~60fps (as it doesn't flicker), so around 16ms actual response time. To make up for the marketing BS you need to buy a "8ms" screen though.
Re:Mostly a good thing (Score:2)
Re:Mostly a good thing (Score:2)
Re:Mostly a good thing (Score:4, Informative)
Now, my desk is another story. I have a CRT for my computer there too but when that goes, the LCD cometh
Re:Mostly a good thing (Score:3, Funny)
Man, I keep pseudo-hoping that my Viewsonic 21PS will die. Maybe then I could justify buying an LCD.
Except that I have two spare VS 19" CRTs sitting around. Sigh.
Maybe my toddler will figure out a way to trash them for me...
Re:Mostly a good thing (Score:3, Informative)
While technically true, the reality is that even though the CRT may not be dead it may be so dim that you wish it was. And compensating by pushing up the contrast and brightness just causes it to fade even faster.
I can't tell you how many old CRT monitors I've seen that were so dim that they should've been thrown in the trash. Mine's not there yet, but it won't be much longer I
Re:Mostly a good thing (Score:4, Informative)
Those LCDs are ugly, none of them come near to what colors should look like.
Re:Mostly a good thing (Score:4, Informative)
Tom's Hardware did a nice piece on them.
-nB
Re:Mostly a good thing (Score:2)
LCDs are overrated. (Score:2, Insightful)
Some examples:
Much higher contrast between black and white.
better color definition.
gamma/color/brightness doesn't change based on fewing angles.
much faster response/no ghosting.
People who complain about flickering with CRTs are usually just running the monitor at a to high of resolution. There problems are more related to not spending enough on their monitors rather then serious flaws in CRT monitors.
even on very nice LCD monitors I get h
Re:Mostly a good thing (Score:2)
Anyone know...? (Score:4, Insightful)
(Note: I'm looking for replies based on experience with Japanese reality, not on anime. TIA...)
Re:Anyone know...? (Score:2, Funny)
Actually, they've quit with TV altogether, and instead battle aliens with huge anthropomorphic robots.
Re:Anyone know...? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Anyone know...? (Score:2)
It's kind of sad that you had to specify that.
Can we cite live-action horror movies, though? There was one of those that had a lot of TVs in it, but they were still using VHS! I mean, come on... Sadako really should have cursed someone's TiVo :-)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I don't know about anyone else (Score:2)
Sony is losing big time there. Right now someone with less than $10,000.00 can buy a XL2 and a no-name editing platform and produce video content that is equlivant to that shot on a DigiBetacam camera that cost $100K and edited on a DME-9000 or any of their other pro video gear.
when you can build an entire video editing platform for less than the price of one sony deck, sony is going to hurt bad.
Re:I don't know about anyone else (Score:2)
I dunno, I just can't see Sony going under. They still have that great name recognition. As long as they keep putting out electronics with "Sony" emblazoned on them, people will buy them. How else can they keep getting away with higher prices than the competition? Customers obviously think that they're getting higher quality as well.
Re:I don't know about anyone else (Score:2)
Re:I don't know about anyone else (Score:3, Informative)
Do you live in the US? Chances are that if you lived in the EU, you'd be able to get something done about that, if not a refund. Even if it had the "standard" base warranty for cheaper items (1 year), if you could prove that the fault was inherent (within 6 months of purchase the onus is on the retailer to prove the opposite), the court wou
Re:I don't know about anyone else (Score:3, Interesting)
Sony 20.1" flat panel - had it for a year, works great. Almost 2 million pixels and no dead or hot ones.
Sony 19" monitor - Worked great until I got the flat panel. Still works great for the person I gave it to.
Sony 15" monitor - Got it way back in the mid 90's. Worked great until I bought the 19". Then I gave it away, then the person I gave it to gave it back to me cause they no longer needed it. Still works great on a second com
Not good news? (Score:3, Interesting)
NO, but I love the CRT...! (Score:2)
--
I should be working, but I'm posting on
Stash away those Sony CRTs Now !!!! (Score:3, Interesting)
Quit using them now (to stop wear & tear on the tube) and stash them away. When CRT monitors and TVs disappear from the market after a few more years and there will be no more spare replacement tubes available, you'll be able to sell a good working unit to the CRT addicts for much more money than they are worth on the used equipment market right now.
I'm unsure if I'm being serious or sarcastically humorous on this comme
If the CRT dies (Score:3, Insightful)
Too Bad; LCDs are Overpriced (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Too Bad; LCDs are Overpriced (Score:2)
Anyone who has to move around a whole bunch can appreciate the whole size (and weight) thing. I've had to move around the TV in my livingroom (furnished, so it isn't mine) quite often. It scratches up the center and weighs a ton. I'd much prefer a smaller LCD to such a large TV.
Besides, why does anyone need such a large TV?
Re:Too Bad; LCDs are Overpriced (Score:2)
Re:Too Bad; LCDs are Overpriced (Score:2)
For as long as there is a market for CRT worth exploiting, I'd say just look to other brands. In the next few years, I expect that the price pressure be too great as LCDs get cheaper such that it's not worth making them anymore for anything oth
Re:Too Bad; LCDs are Overpriced (Score:5, Informative)
Mmmm... and that LCD has a PC input, too. I know for a fact that their CRT Wega line isn't designed for PC scan rates on the DVI input. You can get 640x480 to work, but there's overscan, and even if you get your video card to generate ATSC scan rates, anything higher than 480p forces the 4:3 CRT into widescreen mode.
Re:Too Bad; LCDs are Overpriced (Score:2)
Re:Too Bad; LCDs are Overpriced (Score:2)
And if you don't understand why $999 for a 37" LCD makes sense either you have never lived in a small house and had to move a 35" CRT TV, or you just wanted to post on Slashdot with a contrary view in hopes of getting moderated up.
Re:Too Bad; LCDs are Overpriced (Score:2)
Still, their price-point has now crept from beyond the horizon and into distant view. So, e.g., anyone who's recently enlisted able bodies to help move a CRT behemoth across the living room has a gut-reaction against buying another... even postponing a purchase, if possible.
Re:Too Bad; LCDs are Overpriced (Score:2)
Hard choice (Score:5, Informative)
Sony is halting the production of CRT's for televisions at many of its plants
Sony will shut down some of its CRT television assembly factories by March 2008 (emphasis mine)
No, I didn't read the fine article, but I did laugh out loud.
Re:Hard choice (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Hard choice (Score:2)
There's more to it than that... This is known as spin:
3. (Politics) an interpretation of an event which is
favorable to the interpreter or to the person s/he
supports. A person whose task is to provide such
interpretations for public relati
Different Viewpoints (Score:2)
However, it's interesting to see the Forbes' take on the release: In a bid to revive its game division, Sony plans to release its next-generation stand-alone PlayStation 3 game console in the spring.
Funny how a slightly different viewpoint casts a whole new light on a subject...
Yen (Score:2)
32,300,000,000.00 JPY = 280,239,409.58 USD
410,000,000,000.00 JPY = 3,556,690,039.42 USD
356,800,000,000.00 JPY = 3,095,187,819.67 USD
Thanks xe.com [xe.com]
Re:Yen (Score:3, Informative)
Google "38,500,000,000.00 JPY in USD" (no quotes) and you'll get "333.42001 million U.S. dollars" as the answer. I'm not sure why the number is different.
Silly Metric System (Score:2)
I think this is a pity, actually (Score:2, Interesting)
Of course, myself, I got a second hand 21" Sony Trinitron VGA monitor for about $80, so I'm fine :)
Mmmm, obscenely high resolution...
Re:I think this is a pity, actually (Score:2)
sony trinitrons have ALWAYS suffered from these in their 19 inch and larger tubes. and made us move away from them as they had no plans to fix it.
Re:I think this is a pity, actually (Score:2)
A Trinitron tube has thousands of tiny vertical wires to disperse/channel the electron beam. The horizontal wire is necessary to keep the vertical ones from moving. To see it, you generally have to know what you're looking for and explicitly try to find it... it's not at all obvious. That's the price you pay for the superior picture.
The really big 24" monitors have two wires, at 1/3 and 2/3 the way down the screen.
Re:I think this is a pity, actually (Score:2)
Re:I think this is a pity, actually (Score:3, Informative)
That's not a "defect", any more than the legs on a table or the wheels on a car are a "defect", even if it'd be nicer to have tables or automobiles that floated unsupported. Until the Singularity and we're all uploaded into Cyberspace we'll have to put up wit
"Revive its games division"? (Score:2, Interesting)
CRT (Score:2, Interesting)
WOuldn't it be funny (Score:4, Interesting)
Sad (Score:4, Insightful)
It's hard for me to say that CRTs are still superior to LCDs because I haven't actively researched the best LCDs, but of the many LCD displays that friends and labs use, I can't imagine what I'll do when my current CRT comes up for replacement. There's simply no comparison. The LCD blacks are fake on many of the Dells (they seem to cheat to get a good contrast ratio - perfect black is dark, but the dark grey levels are much lighter). There's also the abrasiveness of the tri-color split of LCD pixels.
I guess I'm an old-fashioned dinosaur, and maybe the CRT v. LCD battle is comparable to the tube v. solid state amplifier battle, but this day marks the end of the era of beautiful CRT displays. I'll mourn.
Re:Sad (Score:4, Informative)
You can pry my Trinitron from my cold dead fingers (Score:4, Funny)
I do not like LCD or flat panel TV's or monitors at all.
The response time is god awful, the resolution is god awful.
They just flat out suck... Not to mention the abysmally short life span of the LCD/plasma/whatever screens.
I have a number of 21" Sony Trinitron CRT's stockpiled as backups.
I have a matched pair sitting on my desk right now and 4 spares stuck away because I KNEW this was going to happen...
I have a few 27" TV's that I never really watch but I suppose that sometime in the not to distant future I'll go out and purchase a few of the very large Sony Trinitron CRT TV's. My uncle is a big Sony fan (100% Sony in his home) and has several very large Sony Wega CRT sets in his home and man, I'm here to tell you those sets have magnificent pictures!
I can imagine they are very expensive but I expect the price to drop as Sony tries to push old stock out the door to make way for the dinky little flat screens that all the LEMMINGS just *have to* run out and buy. It's the "me too syndrome". You know, keeping up with the Jones and all that.
People are basically stupid and will buy stuff just because the voice on the idiot box tells them it's cool and trendy and that you MUST run out and get yours today.
Not me. I stick with yesterdays technology. It's tried and tested and no one is jealous of my Fred Flintstone equipment and decor... Not to mention, I save a lot of money by not replacing all my stuff every commercial break..
Re:You can pry my Trinitron from my cold dead fing (Score:2)
Plasma and newer LCD screens have fine response time, exhibiting no ghosting at all. Early-generation technology will never be that great, but it has gotten a lot better.
the resolution is god awful.
God-awful resolution? 720p is the same on a CRT than it is on an LCD/Plasma/DLP.
They just flat out suck... Not to mention the abysmally short life span of the LCD/plasma/whatever screens.
Modern plasma screens (at least Panasonics) have a life of 80,000 hours. That is appr
The End of an Era? (Score:2, Interesting)
Many people today don't realize how far CRT TVs have come in quality and usability. I got my first TV set, a 19" Admiral B&W set, for my 8th birthday back in the 1960s. Admiral was one of the big brands back then, along wi
Re:It's about time... (Score:3, Informative)
LCD/DLP/Plasma are still not bright enough for well lit spaces (IMHO). I don't always want to use the basement for my Television viewing.
Re:It's about time... (Score:2)
Re:It's about time... (Score:4, Informative)
Yes, but remember -- when it's a patent/copyright/other IP that you hate then it's evil and wrong. When it's something you like, when the IP expires then others "rip off" your hard work.
And I heartily disagree with the grandparent about the brightness factor of LCD/DLP -- my 46" DLP is visible in normal light conditions, in a well lit room. No, I can't see shit on it when the sun is shining directly on the screen, but I can't see shit on a CRT in those circumstances either.
And I suspect he was comparing apples to oranges anyway -- direct view CRT to projection LCD/DLP (since projection is the only way you can view DLP). Compare projection CRT and the LCD/DLP literally shine -- you need as dark a room as possible for projected CRT. Also, if you want much more than 36" diagonal you can't use direct view CRT -- the tubes are just too big, heavy, and expensive (IIRC, the largest direct view tube ever produced for home use was a 44" Mitsubishi).
Re:It's about time... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:It's about time... (Score:2)
The best example I can think of would probably get this post labelled as a troll, though, so I'll just leave it at that.
---
The point I was trying to make is that even after all those years, Sony's Trinitron technology was an immediate improvement to what they could already offer. It would seem though, that after 17 years, someone would of come out with something better that didn't require vi
Re:It's about time... (Score:3, Interesting)
While I agree with your point I think it is nice that companies are discontinuing production of CRT at once. I think this will increase the competitivity for better flat display TV. And I am sure it will also make its prices drop (and this is something I would really want because the prices are still not affordable for people like me).
Also, as there is more companies conc
Re:It's about time... (Score:2)
Re:It's about time... (Score:2)
I note that you said "in a dark room", you should also add "directly in front of, and no more than 20 degrees off center".
Certainly, DLP is still clearly visible (in that dark room) up to 60 degrees off center, but that rightness degrades quickly.
Re:It's about time... (Score:2, Insightful)
That's interesting. SONY used to be considered the top of the line. (Shows you how much time I spend shopping for electronics.)
I wonder what happened. Did they get tired of being the innovators and decide to become the followers: at least in consumer electronics?
Re:It's about time... (Score:5, Insightful)
China, Korea and Malaysia happened. They just couldn't compete with electonics dumping from Samsung, Goldstar, LG, APEX
Re:It's about time... (Score:4, Funny)
Not to mention Sorny, Magnetbox, and Panaphonic.
Re:It's about time... (Score:2, Insightful)
Yet Sony still price their sets like they have no competition.
Re:It's about time... (Score:2)
Re:It's about time... (Score:5, Insightful)
Indeed, and this story really has very little to do with CRTs versus LCDs - It's a simple tale of a very large corporation that lost its way (I stopped buy Sony stuff because what once was an extremely high quality brand turned into an overpriced garbage brand) that's now spastically shifting around to try to regain its footing.
Even more ridiculous is the "SONY IS STOPPING PRODUCTION OF CRTS!" followed by the rather important disclaimer "at most of its plants". That entirely counters the headline, and it more accurately should be "Sony is scaling back CRT production", which seems obvious given how many computers, for instance, come with LCDs now, eliminating the need for such a glut of CRT supply.
Re:Sony still sold CRTs?? (Score:2)
Don't forget oem market (Score:3, Insightful)
Sony oem's a large number of Trinitron crt's for other manufacturers.
Re:Don't forget oem market (Score:3, Informative)
NEC merged its monitor business with Mitsubishi a while back. Mitsubishi makes the Diamondtron tube, which uses the same cylindrical section (as opposed to a spherical section) for the face of the tube as a Trinitron. It
Re:Welcome to 1990, Sony. (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Welcome to 1990, Sony. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Welcome to 1990, Sony. (Score:3, Insightful)
But not when it comes to weight. Be sure to get someone to help you lift it. Their 32" flat-CRT HD-ready models weigh around 175 pounds. I've had one for about 2 1/2 years and I had it delivered. If I need to get behind it, I can slide it around on the stand. I'm glad I spent the money for the official Sony stand, it's fits perfectly, and it can hold half a dozen video game consoles.
Re:Welcome to 1990, Sony. (Score:2)
Re:Welcome to 1990, Sony. (Score:5, Insightful)
1. They have sensitive vision and the brightness of the CRT hurts their eyes (this is why my work computer has an LCD monitor).
2. LCDs are newer and these people keep reading about how great they are.
Side by side in a store it's easy to see that a good CRT provides much better color, brightness and contrast than any LCD or plasma TV. Considering that they are a third the price, I often wonder why there is such a big market for skinny TVs. Can the depth of the TV really make someone spend so much more money?
I also have an issue with plasma vs projection large screen TVs. A good projection TV is indistinguishable from a plasma TV and costs half the price. Why aren't people buying projection instead of plasma?
Re:Welcome to 1990, Sony. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Welcome to 1990, Sony. (Score:2)
No they aren't. In may ways, they're easily distinguishable.
Why aren't people buying projection instead of plasma?
They are.
Re:Welcome to 1990, Sony. (Score:2)
Re:Welcome to 1990, Sony. (Score:2)
Welcome to get a clue... (Score:4, Funny)
were also invented in 1897, not 1990 (which I suspect is when
you were born sonny).
Re:Profit is immoral (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Profit is immoral (Score:2)
Re:Profit is immoral (Score:2)
Re:Sony is suffering for high quality, !$profit (Score:2)
Sony may have been the benchmark for quality years ago, but they are far behind in pretty much every consumer technology they sell. Hell, I've seen APEX TVs with better picture quality than Wegas that cost three times as much.
The only product Sony makes that can be considered one of the best is their rear-projection CRT sets.
Panasonic owns the plasma market in both sales and quality.
Samsung and Mitsubishi own the DLP market in sales and
Re:Playstation 3 (Score:2)
Re:Investments? (Score:2)
This is Japan.
Instead of marketing and overpaid manager, most of it will be used to paid to prevent Sokaiya [wikipedia.org] at the stock holders meeting!