Critical Review of the Zune 616
ceallaigh writes "Andy Ihnatko of the Chicago Sun-Times has a critical review of the Zune. "Avoid," is my general message. The Zune is a square wheel, a product that's so absurd and so obviously immune to success that it evokes something akin to a sense of pity."
Did you see CmdrTaco's review of the Zune? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Did you see CmdrTaco's review of the Zune? (Score:5, Interesting)
I *wanted* to buy a Zune, I really did. I wanted it to integrate in with everything else I own/run.
I was hot to do it until I found out that it didn't integrate in with Windows Media Player....WTF? I have years of files integrated into that player. Microsoft has been pushing it forever, and I went with it. I do like WMP- I think it's a pretty nice piece of software. In fact the only reason I never bought an iPod is because it won't integrate with WMP.
So when Microsoft came out with a player that didn't integrate with its core piece of media software, I thought that was a travesty. But, I was still willing to drink their Kool-Aid...until I found out they don't support Audible.com files.
It's amazing that a DRM infested piece of equipment like this doesn't support DRM infested Audible.com files. It seems like a match made in heaven (for them...) but somehow this failed to happen.
So, no Windows Media Player support...no Audible.com support. I just couldn't bring myself to buy one.
So instead I bought a Creative Zen MicroPhoto. Which became a brick the instant I upgraded the firmware to support Audible.com. I returned that and bought an iRiver Clix.
The Clix is nice- good interface, works well. The Audible.com upgrade didn't go too well (I had to use my wife's computer, because mine wouldn't recognize it) but I eventually got it. But instead of a 30+ Gig powerhouse with video, I ended up with a 2GB flash player. (Does video, but only 15fps)
I would have bought a Toshiba Gigabeat, or one of the new Sansa players, but they don't support Audible.com, and I need that.
Okay, last little bit of my rant here...I do NOT mind paying for content, doesn't bother me one bit. I would RATHER use Audible.com than BitTorrent because I think that artists and writers deserve to be paid for their work. But over the last year I have resorted to downloading at least a dozen books using BitTorrent because Audible.com sucks ass. Not only is the DRM a piece of crap, but the quality of the audio on their files blows.
Should I have gone with the Gigabeat and just used BitTorrent (yay UTorrent!) to get my audiobooks? Possibly...because I don't think that Audible.com deserves any money because they suck. But overall I would rather be guilt-free. But the day that there is a reasonable alternative to the big players (Apple/Audible) I will jump on it immediately. Really, when will they realize that their DRM only frustrates legitimate customers, and those who want to steal are going to do it anyway?
Re:Did you see CmdrTaco's review of the Zune? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Did you see CmdrTaco's review of the Zune? (Score:5, Insightful)
Not meant as a troll or a flamebait, but you're one stupid sonofabitch. Why did you get married to a proprietary (and inferior) format invented with the sole purpose of DRM and vendor lock-in? You could have just as easily gone with standard formats like MP3 and use whatever player/platform you wanted.
I must say, friend, you really did drink the Kool-Aid. And I'm going to sit in the corner and laugh my ass off.
Re:Did you see CmdrTaco's review of the Zune? (Score:4, Funny)
Now there's a quote that seems destined to become somebody's sig.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Did you see CmdrTaco's review of the Zune? (Score:4, Informative)
How is this flamebait? The GP is obviously a fairly well-informed technical person who tries to make intelligent choices about technology and standards and stuff... and yet, as the parent points out, the GP has chosen to keep all his music in a totally proprietary locked-down Microsoft format.
I'd say the parent's comments are entirely appropriate...
Re:Did you see CmdrTaco's review of the Zune? (Score:4, Insightful)
No, Microsoft is his religion, you can't question person's beliefs.
Re:Did you see CmdrTaco's review of the Zune? (Score:5, Funny)
Erm... Video?
Re:Did you see CmdrTaco's review of the Zune? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Did you see CmdrTaco's review of the Zune? (Score:4, Insightful)
Bullshit. [rjamorim.com]
Both Apple *and* MS would love for you to believe that their codecs can sound twice as good as mp3 at half the bit rate, but unfortunately for them it just isn't true and that double-blind listening test proved it some time ago. Statistically, the difference is not all that great, but in absolute terms, mp3 actually sounds *better* than wma even at the *same* bit rate. You can forget about trying to get wma to sound anywhere near as good as mp3 at a lower bit rate. (Apple's AAC fares a bit better, but not a whole lot.)
There is simply no compelling reason to use anything other than either Vorbis (if you want the absolute best lossy compression at the expense of compatibility) or mp3 (if you want the best lossy compression with the most compatibility). You're a fool to lock yourself into one company's products by using an inferior compression algorithm.
Re:Did you see CmdrTaco's review of the Zune? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Did you see CmdrTaco's review of the Zune? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Did you see CmdrTaco's review of the Zune? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Did you see CmdrTaco's review of the Zune? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Did you see CmdrTaco's review of the Zune? (Score:5, Insightful)
I just don't get why people buy downloaded music at all, especially not DRM'd stuff. For a marginally higher cost, a CD gives you your music in an uncompressed format and leaves it up to you how you want to encode it. And it's got pretty packaging too. Until music downloads are losslessly encoded, DRM-free, and allow me to send for the cover art at no additional charge, I'm not buying.
So that'd be "never", then.
Fuck 'em. Don't give them your money. Keep buying CDs until they come back with the online music stores we want, rather than the ones they see fit to give us.
"I have years of files integrated into WMP" (Score:3, Insightful)
The WMA format was designed with one goal, to lock you into WMP.
It was a very obvious trap but you fell for it.
Don't expect any sympathy...
Re:Did you see CmdrTaco's review of the Zune? (Score:5, Interesting)
The RIAA really helps screw the artists, as do the labels, and sure, some pirates are screwing the artists too. Most however are young kids who can't afford to buy the music in the first place... so they're not screwing the artist they're making them more popular.
Listener who bought CD > Listener who wouldn't/couldn't buy CD > Someone who doesn't listen
Re:Did you see CmdrTaco's review of the Zune? (Score:5, Insightful)
Now THAT'S just another rationalization. When I was a kid music was important to me, and somehow my friends and I always managed to find the money needed to get the music we wanted. We might not have been able to afford everything we WANTED, but we did manage to buy the stuff that was important to us, using money from jobs, allowances, and so on.
Today, too many kids make the same rationalization that you just did... and then go spend the money they "didn't have" on clothes or other things they can't rip off quite so easily.
Re:Did you see CmdrTaco's review of the Zune? (Score:4, Insightful)
Some additional comments... (Score:5, Insightful)
I simply cannot believe that Microsoft *ever* asked itself how users might interface with such a device and it's obsequious pandering to the music industry in an effort to out-compete Apple in this space rather than putting the effort into making a better product to the iPod quite simply offends. Hey Microsoft, how much did you spend coming up with this marketing, because I am simply stunned at how bad this is. If Microsoft *really* was interested in making a better product and not acting as a pimp for the record industry, they would also not have relied on "Zune Points" to purchase music. As anybody who has ever taken Marketing101 knows, you should always facilitate the process of getting people to spend money on your products and anything that steps in-between or slows this process down had better have a damn good reason for existing. Why do I have to buy "Zune Points" to then make music purchases? It's just stupid.
Oh, and Microsoft..... Just a suggestion: Very few end users want their products to "squirt" anything at them. That is just bad marketing.
Re:Some additional comments... (Score:4, Informative)
Personally I find the one year old, Creative Zen Vision, a far better iPod alternative. It has a 640by480 res screen,
30 GB HD, plays almost any video file downloadable (mpeg4, mpeg1, mpeg2, AVI, divx, xvid, mjpeg), allows you to read CF cards,
plays the radio, plays MP3's, Audible files and WMA files, record sound via a built in mic, plays also through an small external speaker,
allows you to view JPEGs and lets you output sound and video in full DVD quality to your TV and HT amp. It's a much better product, already out
for a year now.
Re:Some additional comments... (Score:5, Interesting)
The one "feature" of the Zune that a lot of the reviewers don't seem to mention is the way it integrates DRM in the most limiting way. Here's a news flash to mp3 player manufacturers: Let me use the thing as mass storage and don't try to play rights-police with me. Leave that problem to the entertainment business and just sell me hardware that works. I want to be able to drag files on and off my player the same way I do with a hard drive.
That's some free advice, by the way, and everyone I know who uses a portable media player feels the same way. Ignore it at your own risk.
is that DRM really an option these days? (Score:3)
i don't 100% understand the Zune DRM (i just don't care enough to research it), but Apple's is really only on the files you buy from iTMS. on the iPod,
Re: formatting the SanDisk Cruzer (Score:4, Insightful)
A. Yes. To remove the U3 technology from the drive, simply go to the U3 Launchpad and, under Settings, select U3 Launchpad settings and click Uninstall. This will completely remove the U3 Launchpad from the drive.
I still won't buy a flash drive with this auto-run crap on it, simply because I don't trust them not to stealth install some spyware or rootkit or something (yea Sony, I'm looking at you) - but according to Sandisk it can be removed from the drive.
Yeah, and about this "squirting" thing... (Score:3, Funny)
Seriously, it sounds like Ball-head-man was desperately trying to come up with a catchy name for that wifi thing the device does so badly. He's the most executron-looking dweeb I've ever seen; he typifies the image of the whole company to the yoot who buy such gadgets.
So pl
Re:Some additional comments... (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buKaqRG2SFA&mode=r
It turns into an ad for the new ipod shuffle. It is hilarity.
Re:Some additional comments... (Score:5, Interesting)
You know...I think the zune may indeed become a valuable toy to play with...once someone out there rips it apart software/os wise.....possibly puts linux on it...and makes it a general use player. I'd think the built-in wireless on this would make that worthwhile...
I'll wait till this thing is thoroughly 'hacked'......and someone take what may be decent hardware (just guessing here), and makes it useful with non MS and non-RIAA backed 'prisonware'......once opensource works on this, it may be worth getting.
Till then...I'll wait and get one on eBay for a good price....
Re:Some additional comments... (Score:5, Insightful)
I think he's talking about ANY data whatsoever. A lot of people just use these HD-based MP3 players as jumbo thumb drives. I know an IT guy who keeps multiple OS images on his. I have lots of (non-ipod-based) movies on mine.
Also, the fact that you can access the drive normally means you can go into a little folder called .iPod_Control (or something) and do fun things like export your songs and hack the iPod database. The songs aren't on a separate partition or anything, they're just named funny things like SFJI.mp3 and put into weird folders.
The whole Zune thing seems weird and sad. I mean, I don't think Microsoft is inherently bad or evil, I just wish they would live up to their own hype. They imagine their OS and associated peripherals as a paradise island of connectivity and ease, and then they go and make Zune and slap a 1000 meter restraining order on it and put it on a raft in the Pacific. What's next, Microsoft, a next-generation PDA for young professionals on the go that is 100% incompatible with any Office document?
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Subjective Review (Score:3, Insightful)
But I found this to be a particularly bad review. Perhaps I don't read a lot of reviews but I prefer them to be thorough. One thing that stuck out about this review is that it didn't even have room for something nice to say about the Zune. Not one thing. I'm sure a high school student could write me a review with a PROS/CONS table that would be more informative than this. I find it very hard to believe that this reviewer managed to not find anything good about the Zune.
Here's a simple question I didn't see answered anywhere, "Did it work?" If it did what was its sound quality like? Is it durable? How heavy/large is it? Every point of this article a mark against the Zune. I think that a 'review' entitles you to be subjective & look at it from all angles then weigh in at the end about whether or not you would recommend it. Instead this review starts off with the quote, "Yes, Microsoft's new Zune digital music player is just plain dreadful. I've spent a week setting this thing up and using it, and the overall experience is about as pleasant as having an airbag deploy in your face. 'Avoid,' is my general message. The Zune is a square wheel, a product that's so absurd and so obviously immune to success that it evokes something akin to a sense of pity." Why should I even finish reading your review if that's the first thing you say?
And then Apple enters your review. I can understand a comparison to other competitive MP3 players but you just start using the brand name Apple. Why? Why not give me a rundown of this versus iRiver or Creative's MP3 players? So the Toshiba MP3 player is $40 cheaper, doesn't tell me much if it sucks even more. Are they also compatible with podcasts and WMA codecs?
Reading this review causes me to question Andy Ihnatko's motive. Is he reviewing the Zune, grinding an ax or trying to get me to buy an iPod? I know the thing sucks but at least be fair if you're going to write a review for the masses.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The problem is that the "good" things were probably things you just take for granted like play lists and good sound quality. I've had pieces of hardware that had so many bad points it was impossible even see adequate let alone good points. It's almost as if the bad points push the good points into the corner and start waving at you at that point even thinking about the device makes you froth at the mouth with anger.
Re:Subjective Review (Score:5, Insightful)
The reason why The ipod is used instead of the iRiver or the creative is that the gold iPod is the standard by which music players are judged. By now most people have experianced an iPod, but wouldn't know an iRiver if it bit them.
Perhaps this is a
Re:Subjective Review (Score:5, Interesting)
My thought is that ms worked closly with the RIAA on this player, put decent amount of force behind it, looking to see it flop. Once it flops the next version they can tell the RIAA to kindly piss off because their ideas don't work. The next model might actauly be a good product (or the third release if they stay true to form.)
Re:Subjective Review (Score:5, Insightful)
Doubtful, if they're willing to pay the labels for each Zune sold. (Then again, that part is probably to force Apple to pay when their label contracts come up, which effectively INCREASES the leader's cost, when normally it drops.)
An Apple Music Label (Score:3, Interesting)
Apple is well regarded by musicians because of their Logic and Garage Band tools. Imagine if Apple offered (as part of the song creation workflow) an iTunes "upload space" to anyone for $X per year and Y% of sales. If $X per year was low enough for weekend bands to participate, they'd be promoting iTunes purchases at their gigs in bar
Re:Subjective Review (Score:5, Interesting)
The first edge is about the loss to the music industry. If they can't satisfy the demands of those guys and if they violate the music industry directives (for a lack of better words) in any way they could suffer the long term. If they implement a feature that allows Zune users the ability to too freely break the rules then the end result would be lawsuits. So, Microsoft joined the ranks of the DRM nightmare inclined--and the Zune users are going to pay.
On the second edge of the sword Microsoft has to take over the DRM industry or they will fail. Apple has that now. What I mean by the DRM industry is that they must take control of the technology that implements DRM in every household and every pocketbook. If they don't they loose to Apple and they will never gain their monopoly status in Content Rights Management (CRM).
Bill Gates said that computers are no longer primarily used to create content, instead they are used to consume it. He knows this is the bandwagon to get up on and to ride it out. He wants total control of all content on computers and that means CRM (the software used to create it) (DRM, et al).
DRM and CRM are the OS of protected data. Whomever controls that controls content and thus controls a lot of other markets. They can then begin to dictate things just as Apple was successfully able to dictate the price of music to the music industry. Steve Jobs was the greedy one in the pricing when that was being debated, IMHO. It is hard to see it until you recognize that he controls the DRM for 70% of the market.
Bottom line, unless Microsoft succumbs to the music industry to start they can't get industry players on board. Unless they take over the DRM and CRM control they'll never get the music industry (or any other industry producing protected content) to come on board. Considering their blatant failure to maintain backwards compatibility one can only guess they have fallen on their own sword on this one.
Hopefully, some realize that we can't let Microsoft get control of the DRM and become a monopoly in CRM like they did the OS. If they do then we'll have high and inflexible prices on our content as well.
Re:Subjective Review (Score:5, Interesting)
this is pretty much a non-issue nowadays. I'm a recording engineer with nearly 20 years of experience behind me and have lived and worked through the whole digital audio transition in tedious detail. At the end of the eighties most 16-bit DACs sounded like garbage - even on machines worth (at the time) several thousand dollars. Domestic CD player DACs were, to my ears, horrific at this time with a few exceptions but during the passing years things improved quite quickly. For instance, around 92-95, cheapish semi-pro devices started sounding pretty good (like portable DATs and stereo samplers) and quite quickly this became the case in domestic machines too. I became used to this fact (digital audio now sounds good!) so that when I bought a 3rd gen iPod about 3 years ago I didn't even bother check what the quality was like - I knew it was going to be good because of the general advance in chipsets available to the designers. The only thing I'd worry about is interference from electronics onto the analogue amps producing artefacts that are very quiet but annoying like hearing the HD controller work or things like that. One of the reasons I love the pod is that I've never heard that at all. So I think the review reflects this mindset - digital audio is basically good now with few exceptions.
(Having said all this, my new Samsung phone with built-in MP3 player sounds like crap but this is I suspect because of custom chips being designed to fit a tiny form factor and too much emphasis on features rather than quality).
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I would love to continue using one or the other; and I'm told I can "increase the resistance" by modifying a co
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The column is aimed at consumers, not nerds. If consumers can't get the Zune working, and they can get an iPod working, in their minds, it's the Zune's fault, whether it's due to a crappy installer, or whatever.
Re:Subjective Review (Score:5, Insightful)
If you think that getting it to work in the first place is not a part of ease-of-use then I can just pray that you will never be responsible for designing anything I will need to use.
Re:Subjective Review (Score:5, Insightful)
Honestly, if you can't even install the software without hitting support.microsoft.com then that's going to set a precedent among the average user. The sound quality and interface become secondary if you can't even get music onto the player without serious hassle. This reviewer just gave his opinion and his bad experiences with the software and hardware overshadowed everything else. In fact, it was some time before he could even get it to work! I agree with his point, on Christmas day the last thing I'd want to deal with is my 9 year old daughter bugging me constantly wondering why she can't use her new Zune. Of course, I don't think I'm going to spend that on her, but I see his point.
And the comparison to Apple? Well, the average consumer knows Apple, knows iPods... and refers to every MP3 player as an iPod. I've seen them in Best Buy so the comparison is valid. Plus the comparison to the Toshiba? Well, I don't know if you've taken a close look, but the Zune *is* a Toshiba device. It's an evolutionary advance on a player that Toshiba already sells with a new button interface and wireless. So although it's a bit of a stretch, that's a valid comparison too.
Yes, I've played with a Zune (though not the software I'll admit). I was underwhelmed. It seemed a little kludgy to me to get where I wanted in the interface (though I'll admit I am an iPod owner and therefore used to that interface), and the rubber coating reminded me of a rather disturbing green/brown sex toy. That's my personal opinion, and not to be taken as gospel, though!
Re:Subjective Review (Score:5, Insightful)
Do I think that the review was a shill for the iPod? No. Instead, the author promoted the way of thinking used by the iPod designers and the other successful makers of digital players. The point wasn't to tell you all about how to play songs on the Zune or any of that stuff, it was to say that the method of design, the planning of the product, and the theory behind all of this is deeply flawed.
I see in my morning newspaper, sales for the Zune. I have yet to hear one of my friends thinking about buying one. It's not because they are all addicted to the iPod, several have other types of players. But not one of them is looking for a player that gives them less control over their music. Mostly we talk about how we wish that we could easily move music between players, use wireless devices, receive radio on the iPod without an add-on, and the like. In short, we talk about ways it could be better. It seems to me and to this reviewer that Microsoft worked diligently to find ways to make the player less convenient and more locked up.
I'll say no thanks to that design model and thank you to the reviewer for succinctly getting at an idea that I had thought of but not been able to articulate.
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While I agree with most of your post, I think you're a bit off here. It's fairly standard (and sensible) practice to make a comparison to the indu
LOL "Subjective Review" (Score:2)
>Why should I even finish reading your review if that's the first thing you say?
You appear to be speaking directly to the author there, and I'm not the author of the review, but the answer is obvious: because it is valuable feedback on the product. Microsoft -- as a company mindset -
Re:Subjective Review (Score:5, Informative)
This doesn't sound like something I want.
Re:Subjective Review (Score:5, Insightful)
On the other hand, I can't stand reviews that fall into a volley of pros and cons. It creates a text-based tennis match that makes me want to vomit after a few paragraphs of indecisive rambling.
"Sure, the software took hours of troubleshooting to get working, but once it was running it loaded files without a problem!" or "It wouldn't play any files created in the advertised to work playsforsure format, but those formats that did work sounded great."
So, no, he didn't go out of his way to say anything nice about the unit because he had nothing nice to say. The positive things I appended to his comments weren't worth saying because the unit should do these things anyway. One would expect the software to work as designed and formats to play as advertised, so why should he tout these abilities? He shouldn't make apologies for a bad user experience. What I wonder is - did he buy the unit himself or was he supplied the unit for a review? What about other reviewers who might be doing volley reviews of the Zune? If anything, freebie product creates a positive bias that simply can't be trusted to be accurate, lest you piss off your source of free crap.
Jalopnik [jalopnik.com] did a great article about how car magazines won't slam a long term tester because of the benefits they receive by being given free cars to drive. Every "review" they publish balances each bad aspect with a good one. This is not "subjective", this is biased. A review shouldn't straddle the fence - it should go one way or the other.
Consider the Source (Score:5, Informative)
The purpose of the review is not to give geeks a rundown of every single feature and whether it performs as expected. The purpose is to inform the reader about whether this is even a worthwhile product, given all the hype that surrounds it.
The reviewer did point out other options that don't suck as much as the Zune and are cheaper. So he's done his job in giving the average consumer an idea about whether this is a worthwhile product... just as a movie reviewer in the same paper would give you an idea about whether ANYONE should consider going to a particular movie. Most movies have some demographic that might enjoy watching it... but the same is not true for technology products, which may or may not even work as expected. There were at least two features the reviewer pointed out that do not work as expected, given the way they are portrayed on the box.
So it looks like the Zune isn't even worth considering. I'm glad that reviewer was honest enough to say so.
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Speaking of which, I'm still appalled at the number of "geeks" on Slashdot who:
-Still think the iPod DRMs everything.
-Conveniently forget about the fact that Microsoft has promised to DRM everything.
-Have little, if no idea about the particular features of the most popula
Zune is a catastrophe (Score:5, Funny)
The Zune is literally a marketing catastrophe. Andy I. is alerting his readers of the trainwreck it represents. He's identifying the showstoppers that make this a poor purchase. When we're talking about a $250 buy-in, it's important to warn consumers that the glitches are not minor. Even if MS got everything else right with this player, it would be something for parents to avoid purchasing if they're going to have to manually create and install
There's no sense for Andy to discuss the finer details of weight, size, etc. The problems cancel out how superior the form factor might be over the iPod. It's like you're asking for a reporter to discuss the positive aspects of Osama Bin Laden-- "Well, he exhales carbon dioxide, which plants need for photosynthesis." Yes, I'm in agreement with Andy on this, the Zune is the Alqueda of mp3 players.
Seth
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Otherwise, it's very nice: nice big screen - better than Apple's tiddly pissy iPod screen - nice UI, and it's got WiFi.
It's the same res as the iPod and for a portable device it's probably better to be smaller. They both can plug into a TV can't they? UI does seem nice to be, I agree, but part of a UI is what you get to interface with and the buttons are not as good as solution as the Apple wheel. It hasn't got WiFi in the sense that most people understand the term (connecting t
Re: lol (Score:3, Interesting)
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I'm aware that Apple is not the best offering in the industry, but whether we like it or not their product is so ubiquitous that the average reader in fact expects such a comparison to be made. Most people will hear about the Zune and think, "Is it better than iPod?"
Whoever wrote the column is also very aware that his readership is thinking along these lines, so it comes as no surprise whatsoever that Apple was thrown onto the table. It's also no secret that Microsoft's Zune has been regarded as a challe
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Problem is, in the real world as soon as you say "Most pro-audio colleagues as well as sound connoisseurs" peoples' eyes glaze over and they stop listening. Most people couldn't care less about audiophiles' opinions - we have all heard way too much of their pointless (to us) droning. The
Re: lol (Score:4, Insightful)
So unless you're going to record totally loseless and listen with $300 headphones in a quiet room... don't bother.
Nevermind (Score:2)
Seriously though, Microsoft will probably keep throwing money at it until they get it right. Personally I doubt I'll ever pick one up though, Rockbox will keep me happy until my iRiver dies and then I'll just pick up another player that is supported.
Funny... (Score:2)
Re:Funny... (Score:5, Informative)
Does work as a USB drive... (Score:2)
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An argument for managing software (Score:4, Interesting)
I own both an iRiver iHP-120 and an Apple iPod.
The iHP, I have to manage all my files manually. I drag over the folders into the directory I want and bingo, it's done. However, that takes time and effort. If I rip new music on to my computer, (which I do often, I'm a musician) I have to figure out what folders are already on there and which aren't. Plus because I'm on a mac, and OS X generates all sorts of hidden
With my iPod, all my new music I rip in iTunes is placed neatly in my music library that I don't have to look at. All I do is plug in my iPod to charge, and *poof* all my new music is updated onto the device! I don't have to take time to dick around with folders, figuring out which songs I've added since my last manual update. As a boost, all the artwork is on there too, and I'm a meticulous tagger, so everything has art.
There are some nice benefits to the iRiver, of course, such as OGG support and a built in recorder, but over all, the iPod + iTunes experience has it beat, hands down.
I strongly disagree... (Score:2)
the Zune is a decent piece of hardware hobbled and destroyed by management idiocy. It's the perfect metaphore for what is wrong with corperate america.
That said, I'll be snapping up a used one cheap the day the first OSS firmware becomes available for it.
You're not Andy's audience (Score:5, Insightful)
The Zune can be an incredibly cool and useable device as soon as the hackers get into it and create a differen Firmware/OS for it like they did with the ipod,iriver,creative and other popular mp3 players.
Sounds interesting, but it seems to me Andy's job is to review products as they are now, as shipped by the OEM. His reading audience isn't out to pimp their ride; they're out to get a device that does great stuff right out of the box.
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Changing firmware isn't akin to pimping a ride. It's more like adding orthopaedic seats and replacing that camshaft that breaks every two weeks with a stronger non-factory part. Products that have mandatory DRM even for free tracks are inherently defective, plain and simple. Aftermarket firmware repairs that factory defect.
-b.
What review? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:What review? (Score:4, Insightful)
Odds on you're a Windows user. Not flaming but that is a big deal to the average user.
Re: (Score:3)
Q: When your pod bricked out did Apple replace
Zune does not have workaround (Score:2)
A registrry hack that lets you drop your own files on the Zune that it is free to then ignore is NOT a "workaround".
And only Microsoft already had an online store (several in fact) that they chose to make the new player not compatible with. So Microsoft definatley deserves more scorn on this score.
And I guess he wasn't that negative after all, since he didn't even talk about the battery life...
You're rig
Re:What review? (Score:5, Insightful)
On the planet where I come from, this would be a big deal.
It's utterly amazing, amazing... how much Microsoft's shit has made people, often unknowingly, lower their standards.
And MS fanbois in this thread think it's unfair to beat up on Microsoft. What a bunch of bullshit. If the damn product won't install on your own computer, when the same manufacturer makes the opearting system on both machines, that's beyond bad.
It's a shame some of these youngsters weren't into computers back when they actually worked properly. When operating systems didn't need to be rebooted at random or every time you updated something, when products you bought actually lasted a little while or didn't cause you tremendous grief just to get them working. Thanks Microsoft!
Re:What review? (Score:4, Insightful)
iTunes is actually good software. Apple's music store is well-implemented. DRM is evil, but Apple does a pretty good job hiding it from you. So most people don't need or want alternatives to the Apple stuff.
In the reviewer's opinion, the MS software, music store, and DRM issues are so bad that the ability to use alternatives would be a real selling point. At the end of the day, why would anyone spend $300 on a Zune when they could spend the same $300 on a iPod and feel like they are getting a vastly superior experience on their Windows box?
Wireless DRM? (Score:5, Interesting)
This is daft. Is the DRM imposed by the client or the server Zune? What if a band wants to promote their music by, for example, setting up free downloads of selected tracks after a concert? Why should everything go through the Zune store? Also, is there any way to get a server other than another Zune to interface with the thing wirelessly?
I hope this product does become popular enough for many different hacked firmwares to be released. Seems like a decent hardware with shitty firmware, but that's correctable :) - that's what I call "product support"...
-b.
Very funny review (Score:5, Funny)
If that's not enough, the reviewer then weighs in with:
This suggests that for your typical tech-journalist, the issue of the power of music companies and the damage it does to consumers' interests is perfectly clear. However, I don't know anything about the Chicago Sun Times - is it a big newspaper? Does this review suggest that the mainstream media in the US is ready to turn a critical eye on the music companies?
Re:Very funny review (Score:4, Informative)
That said, Andy is a former MacWorld columnist, who often supports Apple. His viewpoint can probably be considered somewhat biased. (Not that I don't agree with him, but I am also somewhat biased.)
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not sure somebody who does the technical column for a print newspaper is quite the same thing as "the mainstream media".
As a gross generalization, people who write on technical subjects for a general audience are semi-technical geeks. They aren't in the really tech heavy category, like engineers or programmers, but they're still quite comfortable with gadgets. Think of the sorta guy who'
I wonder if..... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Cringely (Score:5, Insightful)
Marketing not going so well for them either (Score:5, Insightful)
As for the iPod, the local grocery store now carries the iPod and accessories back in the TV and Game aisle and the corner gas station had shuffles for sale next to the compact flash cards, aimed at travelers and vacationers. You just don't get more pervasive than that. Until the Zune can even near this and can branch out into other small flash based devices as well, Microsoft just isn't going anywhere with it.
Re:Marketing not going so well for them either (Score:5, Funny)
In their defense, Sandisk is the #2 player and they probably can actually sell some Sandisk players.
"Manually Create and Install a .dll File" (Score:2)
From TFA:
To which the goldfish replied:
Re: (Score:2)
The average user will still think it's a non-intuitive install, regardless of whether you have to "register", "install", or "create" a .dll. This product should Just Work with all of MS's modern OSes (2000, XP, Vista).
-b.
Zune will survive. (Score:2)
Result: The Zune will be dead and gone within six months. Good riddance.
Very insightful article until this remark. Microsoft will sink their entire ship before they let the Zune fail. Its key to their drive into the living room. The Zune may not ever be a financial success, but it will be out there for some time to come.
One thing I didn't realize that he pointed out was that Microsoft's model for payments, while completely asinine, gets rid of a per song credit card authorization fee. That's likely a significant cost in Apple's scheme.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Zune isn't about a drive into the living room. Portable music players like the Zune aren't meant for the living room, and never have been.
The reason it won't be gone in 6 months is that Microsoft doesn't come up with new things to get instant profit, and they don't make their choice whether or not to kill a product based on immediate consumer reaction. The company doesn't make decisions to only improve next quarter's pr
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Simon
Zune AD: wtf? (Score:2)
What is going on here?
Is the Zune supposed to be some sort weapon?
(ps, I am old, do you kids "get it"?)
Re:Zune AD: wtf? (Score:4, Funny)
Off topic, but let the karma burn! (Score:2)
I will continue to burn karma until a poll is posted!
TLF
Why bother to comment on a first effort (Score:5, Interesting)
The Zune is a square wheel, a product that's so absurd and so obviously immune to success that it evokes something akin to a sense of pity.
to:
Windows 3.x is a square wheel, a product that's so absurd and so obviously immune to success that it evokes something akin to a sense of pity.
You'll realize that this is just a typical Microsoft "throw something out there" first effort. It was obviously never intended to be an iPod killer, or even to be successful at any particular level. However, you can bet your MP3 player (whatever it is) that there are a bunch of someones at Microsoft reading every public comment about the Zune that they can get their eyeballs on. It's just as important to know what customers think is stupid or otherwise dislike as it is to know what they do like (they need only look at the iPod for that information.) That's Marketing 101, and if nothing else Microsoft does know how to market.
Windows 1.x, 2.x and 3.x truly sucked at pretty much every level but at least 3.1 made a lot of money. Windows 95, for all it's many flaws made even more money, and 98+ made even more money. Don't expect anything positive for the first few years after Microsoft enters a particular market. Historically, they usually fail economically (if not technologically) at anything but operating systems and office suites anyway, but given time they could do well in the portable media player market.
Either way, Apple had best not rest on its laurels for too long. Microsoft isn't the only competitor out there that wants a piece of the iPod pie.
Re:Why bother to comment on a first effort (Score:5, Informative)
The market for portable music players is not the same as the preloaded OEM software "market", nor are they entering a vacuum.
This time MS needs to make a good product that will stand on its own merits, or they'll bleed red ink until the shareholders tell 'em to quit.
zune == anus (Score:5, Funny)
The "zune" logo on the translucent marketing material, when viewed from the back, looks a lot like "anus".
That about sums it up.
THE REAL PROBLEM (Score:5, Insightful)
In today's day and age, with always-on devices with mandatory updates, DRM, and proprietary file formats, who you buy from and trust with your memories, pictures of family and friends, music collections, videos, pictures, letters, etc., is a very, very important decision.
Will you be able to look at the digital pictures of your child 30 years from now? Yes, we have entered that age.
The fundamental problem with the Zune is Microsoft's lack of integrity. Not the Zune's design. Not the Zune's user interface, or anything else. The problem is the lack of character of the company behind the product.
The Zune showed that Microsoft is more than willing to leave good, paying customers who bought 'Plays for Sure' music high-and-dry with a bleak future. And the killer is there is no practical reason for this other than to be sure they copy Apple identically and make people pay twice for the same music.
What's worse, what happens when the whole Zune thing (inevitably) fails? Then what? Customers should expect, based on current behavior, that MS will change the format again and make you re-buy your music. How could a logical, sane person assume otherwise?
(I know a guy, who despite my advice, bought about 2 grand of Plays for Sure music because "MIcrosoft is going to be around forever and they support their stuff." Needless to say, when he learned his music collection didn't work with his new Zune, he was at the Apple store a day later dropping 6 grand on a MBP, 30" display, nano and 5G iPod and tons of iPod accessories. Yes, one guy voting with his wallet--a fat one at that--but this guy is another data point on the tsunami that is building of CIO's, consumers, SMB customers, etc., who are sick of MS' lack of business ethics and their silly, silly games.)
That, for me, is the kiss of death for the Zune. And it should be for all people. For it demonstrated all the lipstick Steve "We need to act like Industry Leaders" Balmer is putting on the Microsoft pig hasn't changed it's DNA. Microsoft is, and always will be, a monopolist protecting its Windows and Office franchise. At any and all costs.
(Full disclosure: Never used Linux in my life. Nor Open Office. Use MS products daily. Don't "hate" Microsoft.
But I can tell a person/company lacking morals and character when I see one. And I know a doomed product when I see one.)
How to enable the Zune as an external drive (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.zunehack.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=7 [zunehack.com]
New Game: Spot the RIAA and/or/ Microsoft Plant (Score:3, Funny)
Well, I think we need to play this game here on Slashdot!
Who here is the RIAA plant?
Who here is the Microsoft plant?
You *know* they are here! Just like we knew, before we actually confirmed it, that there were Feds at the protests.
Zune the latest example of Microsoft's arrogance (Score:3, Interesting)
Even the Xbox 360 is hyped out of control. It barely sold 7 million units in a year--it was actually outsold by the five year old PlayStation 2 [roughlydrafted.com], which sold 11 million units in the same time period.
Microsoft is fooling itself; it's time for the company to get real and start competing, because its empire is declining. Remember that Apple was also making craploads of cash deep into the late Sculley Era, when it was obvious that the company was about to crash. Microsoft has shadowed Apple's brush with death, making the exact same set of moves exactly ten years after Apple. [roughlydrafted.com]
10 Ways Microsoft can Salvage their iPod Killer [roughlydrafted.com]
10 iPod vs Zune Myths [roughlydrafted.com]
10 More Myths of Zune [roughlydrafted.com] Why Microsoft Can't Compete With iTunes [roughlydrafted.com]
Strike 3: Why Zune will Bomb this Winter [roughlydrafted.com]
The Two Faced Monster Inside Zune [roughlydrafted.com]
Christmas iPod spoiler? (Score:5, Insightful)
Trust me, the Zune won't put a dent in Apple's Christmas season iPod sales. This is not hubris talking, it's a plain fact. The thing has gotten almost uniformly bad reviews and has even been soundly mocked on CNN. Zune 1.0 is nothing for Apple to worry about. By the time Microsoft gets a worthy competitor to the current iPod out the door (if history is any guide it will be their 3rd generation Zune), Apple will have advanced the iPod further, still leaving MS at a disadvantage.
The network effect of the iPod is probably just too great for Microsoft to ever overcome-- there are already thousands upon thousands of iPod accessories out there, and the majority of new cars now offer iPod connectivity as an option. Furthermore, it's doubtful many companies will jump to make Zune accessories in any great hurry, seeing how willing Microsoft is to abandon things at the drop of a hat when they decide what they're doing isn't working out. In short, by going up against the iPod Microsoft is learning what it's like to be a competitor to Windows, where they are the ones enjoying the network effect.
~Philly
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Maybe if the alternative punishment is having to give Ballmer a hummer.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
* enable wireless purchasing on your iTMS account using their iPod's serial number to help avoid hackery. This is a one-off task, and should be a simple preference on the iTMS account.
* go about your normal day, see an ad on a banana for some band, decide to try one of their tracks
* find a hotspot
* select 'iTunes Music Store' from the iPod's main men