Home Theater Transformed Into Star Trek Bridge

gevmage writes "Gary Reign, a guy with apparently way too much time on his hands, built a home theater in his basement. This is not unusual. However, the room is designed, floor to ceiling, as the bridge of a Star Trek style starship. See his photo page for details."

"Ach! Capt'n!!!"

[aunchaki]

"It's the server! She canna handle it!!"

Re:"Ach! Capt'n!!!"

[0100010001010011]

Damn it Scotty. Reroute main power through the Auxiliary nyud [nyud.net] Pathways.

Re:"Ach! Capt'n!!!"

[skintigh2]

I've been watching Voyager, and they don't reroute anything anymore. They remodulate it. They remodulate shields, they remodulate phasers, they even remodulate things that have never been modulated before and seeming make no sense to be modulated, like the universal translater. All I know is it fixes everything technical, and i really need to learn how to do it.

Re:"Ach! Capt'n!!!"

[andphi]

Reverse the polarity of particle flow! Reroute a phase-shifted tachyon pulse through the main deflector dish! Blow out the ramscoops! Tea, Earl Grey, Hot!

Re:"Ach! Capt'n!!!"

[Apocalypse111]

We are Slashdot. Lower your firewalls and prepare for decimation. Your biological and technological distinctiveness is already similar to our own. Resistance is futile.

Re:"Ach! Capt'n!!!" (better solution)

[cashman73]

Quick! Somebody go over to fark.com and get Wil Wheaton (aka Ensign Wesley Crusher)! He'll have the problem licked in no time! ;-)

Re:

[dangitman]

It's like a balloon, and ... something bad happens.

Re:"Ach! Capt'n!!!"

[AKAImBatman]

Here's another story on it with a slideshow:

http://www.electronichouse.com/article/star_trek_t heater/ [electronichouse.com]

Working mirror

[winkydink]

http://www.networkmirror.com/8gLhAa08HLchC6VZ/www. reighn.com/theaterphoto.html [networkmirror.com]

Working mirror

[McFly69]

Main Site - http://web.archive.org/web/20060424173133/http://w [archive.org] ww.reighn.com/theaterphoto.html

Panaromic view - http://web.archive.org/web/20060424173133/http://w [archive.org] ww.reighn.com/bridge%20p2b.jpg

Starwars fan quote.

[Damastus the WizLiz]

"I find your lack of taste disturbing."

Re:

[Howserx]

Reversing the polarity of my PC power supply sure solved the problem of a persistent Windows installation.

One photo missing

[sg3000]

It looks like he did a lot of work, and it looks authentic.

However, there's one photo missing: one of these days, he'll have to sell that house. I want a picture of the real estate agent's face when they see that room!

"Captain, property values have slowed to impulse power."

Re:

[compro01]

it all depends on who he's selling it to.

It's a unique property

[morgan_greywolf]

it all depends on who he's selling it to.

And how it's marketed. His house would be considered what's called in the real estate business a 'unique' property. Unique properties tend to sell very, very slowly, but with the right buyer, they can pull in sometimes more money than the property is worth without the 'unique' attributes. In this case, a Star Trek junkie might really want the house in a big way considering the bridge layout of the basement. Unique properties need the right type of selling agent.

Re:

[Kjella]

Wacky houses have a way of meeting up with wacky people. He'll certainly get it sold for no less than a plain basement to some sci-fi geek. I'm not sure I'd pay any extra for it (certainly not whatever time and material he spent actually making it), having that in my basement? Cool. It's probably not something I'd show off on the first date, tho...

Re:

[Lane.exe]

Lane's Paradox:

If this was something you'd show off on the first date, you're not the kind of person that gets dates.

Market value, schmarket value.

[WidescreenFreak]

Why do people automatically make that assumption? Look, unlike the nutcase in England who ran himself into unbelievable debt to make a transporter room in his flat, this room at least serves a legitimate purpose: home theater. And in that perspective, why not use something like the bridge of the Enterprise? The screen does exactly what it's supposed to do both on the Enterprise and in a regular theater - show video; the dome lights do exactly what they're supposed to do on both the Enterprise and in a regular theater; the speakers are placed in strategic locations where speakers should be placed for a home theatre system. Considering the things that he could have done to his house to show his love for Star Trek, this is probably the most practical and least bizarre.

It's nowhere near as kitsch as you guys are making it out to be. If he had a regular door instead of a Starfleet door and replaced any blatantly Star Trek-related items with something more contemporary, no one would be bashing his setup. "Nice bookshelf, nice ceiling lighting, leather chairs, big screen, hidden speakers -- this is really nice. Oh wait. Look! The door (that can very easily be replaced) is a Starfleet door! Oh, how stupid this whole thing is!!" Oh, please. I honestly think that to anyone who is a Star Trek fan and has an appreciation for home theare this is not nearly as much of a turn-off as you'd think.

Yet look how Slashdotters react when the newest, highly-creative, PC case mod comes out. "Cool!" "Where do I get one!" "And it's water-cooled!" "Look how it glows!" "r0x0rz!" "Awesome case!" I certainly love cool-looking PC cases, too, but most people would scorn us for paying premium prices for a PC case, no matter how cool it looks. So, perceived value goes both ways.

And don't confuse "market value" for "marketability" or "sellability". They're completely different. The "market value" for a PS3 when it first came out was $699. The "marketability" and "sellability" values were obviously much, much higher. Houses are no different. I don't see this particular home theatre design hurting its market value, but I do see it increasing its marketability to even mild Star Trek fans who happen to love home theatre, especially when the blatant Star Trek-related items appear to be easily replaceable.

Re:

[archen]

As someone who has little interest in Star Trek I have to admit that it's a nice setup. Now if he did a shoddy job I'd say it was crap, but he must have spent a lot of time getting that setup just right. I don't think you have to be a Trek fan to enjoy the novelty of it. Why is it so trendy to make home theaters look like real theaters now? This guy just took it to the next level.

I'm curious if he has any sound effects set up for the room.

Re:

[peepleperson]

I'm curious if he has any sound effects set up for the room.

... and, does he have two guys who live behind the walls to pull the doors open?

Re:

[StikyPad]

...and, does he have two guys who live behind the walls to pull the doors open?

Shhh! Shhh!

Re:

[sootman]

Agreed. I don't even like Star Trek but I think he did an incredible job of decorating and I wouldn't mind having a setup like this because it just looks so right.. This looks as good as Star Tours or Space Mountain or anything else you'll see at a Disney or Universal park. (Speaking of which, Universal Orlando is getting rid of the Back to the Future ride. I was really hoping it'd make it until 2015, at least.) Why is this any worse than every single boring fancy-wood setup you see in Home Theater Magazine

Re:

[GuyverDH]

Uhm - didn't you mean "10 Forward" - with life-size Guinan cutout?

Crossing your realm boundaries again...

Re:Market value, schmarket value.

[WDubois]

Agreed. I, for one, think it's brilliant. He didn't obsessively create a replica of a bridge. Instead he combined elements that worked for his theater. I particularly like the way he combined bits from both series while at the same time keeping to the main idea of a home theater. Good job.

Re:

[Total_Wimp]

The Star Trek theme for a home theater probably wont put off any buyers with even a medium interest in sci-fi. As you said, the theme fits well with showing movies, and since people have been wanting to "escape" to the movies for years, why not do so on a star ship?

But what about the chairs? No, no, they look nice and I bet they're comfortable, but there doesn't appear to be very many of them. I don't keep up with the latest in home theatres, but both the pictures I've seen and the name itself suggests t

Re:

[deesine]

If I was him, and selling, I would keep everything as is and actually go for the Trekkie buyer. He might even fetch more for it. After being on the market for a couple months without any offers, then I'd redo the room sans Trek.

However, you are correct: anything non-standard and one-off'd, tends to lower the value. A shrewd buyer, even if he is a Trekkie, would still use the uniqueness to get a lower price.

Re:Market value, schmarket value.

[Le Marteau]

I think what disturbs many people is that this guy obviously does not care about resale value, or getting laid. Anyone who is not interested in either cash or sex, but instead does something just because it is fun, is looked at as deviant by many.

Re:

[cdrudge]

However, there's one photo missing: one of these days, he'll have to sell that house. I want a picture of the real estate agent's face when they see that room!

"Captain, property values have slowed to impulse power."

From the looks of it, an overwhelming amount of the decorations are essentially veneered to the walls or otherwise easily moved. Those that aren't would probably take some sheetrock work or basic carpentry but would otherwise be easily changed. A coat of paint and the above changes and the room

Re:One photo missing

[Darth_brooks]

However, there's one photo missing: one of these days, he'll have to sell that house.

Says who? Oh sure, some day he'll die. But I'm betting he'll be interested in an entirely different real estate market by then.

A house is just a place to live. If you want to make money, there are a few hundred thousand other things in the world you can pour money into that will have a better return.

Spending your time designing, sweating, building and creating just so that the next guy will give you a couple extra grand to enjoy the fruits of your labor seems like a waste of time to me.

Re:

[Darth_brooks]

In most of America, people who own a home have easily doubled or tippled their investment just in the last 6-y years.

Huh? There's been growth in the housing market, but double and triple in value? Not quite. In my area, housing prices are falling as people are meeting with a buyers market. I can name off half a dozen people who'd love to move right now, but don't want to take a 25k hit when they sell their house.

Houses are not investments. Equity is just a plesant side effect.

"Unique" property

[wsanders]

Realtors deal with this kind of thing all the time. You know - "charming", meaning the roof sags and there are 1-inch cracks in the foundation. Better than a basement that is a "handyman's delight", i.e. "Flooded".

It's the Galaxy-class starship up on blocks in the front yard that's going to get him in trouble with the neighbors.

Re:

[Vexorian]

Doubt he is planning to sell the house anytime soon.

Because you KNOW his site ain't up to the task...

[TigerNut]

Mirrordot copy of his photos [mirrordot.com]

Re:Because you KNOW his site ain't up to the task.

[monkeyboythom]

She's dead too, Jim.

Obligatory

[monkeyboythom]

[kirk]Slaaaaaaaaaaaashdooooooot![/kirk]

Re:Obligatory

[Cpt_Kirks]

Frankly, I don't see what't so funny.

May I be the first to say....

[dalmiroy2k]

Nerd Alert!!

Calling a "Nerd Alert" on Slashdot is like...

[StressGuy]

warning patrons of a whore house to be wary of the "loose women"

It's almost, like, surreal...ya know?

SWEET!!!

[illeism]

When I have money to burn, I'm just going to set it on fire...

Slashdotted?

[mgessner]

Anyone care to put up a copy of the pic elsewhere?
Preferably with a better connection to the internet than a string phone...

Also on Digg

[Mr. Sketch]

Here are some links posted from the digg page:

Original Digg link: http://www.electronichouse.com/article/star_trek_t heater/ [electronichouse.com]
Digg story: http://digg.com/mods/Really_Cool_Homemade_Star_Tre k_Theater_(slideshow) [digg.com]

From comments:
The Larger image: http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/5278/bridge20p2 byb1.jpg [imageshack.us]

The Rest of the Images:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/133/359998062_55e90 27569_o.jpg [flickr.com]
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/133/359998119_809ed 5da60_o.jpg [flickr.com]
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/123/359998172_f021e fe498_o.jpg [flickr.com]
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/153/359998234_d270e 45959_o.jpg [flickr.com]
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/142/359998290_a7623 c7d59_o.jpg [flickr.com]
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/147/359998333_c5803 bdc6e_o.jpg [flickr.com]
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/156/359998390_a74a8 2a810_o.jpg [flickr.com]
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/155/359998428_4ac3c 1684f_o.jpg [flickr.com]
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/140/359998462_bf5ce 60ad6_o.jpg [flickr.com]
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/140/359998485_a6d15 532c6_o.jpg [flickr.com]
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/152/359998563_3f6de 24886_o.jpg [flickr.com]
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/144/359998627_c99c0 53489_o.jpg [flickr.com]
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/148/359998677_000d1 14cc4_o.jpg [flickr.com]
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/143/359998726_eb86d d150d_o.jpg [flickr.com]
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/123/359998787_ed787 6b750_o.jpg [flickr.com]
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/151/359998824_8cf13 5fdd1_o.jpg [flickr.com]
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/164/359998898_bf636 4c6bc_o.jpg [flickr.com]
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/154/359998947_ebddb 0397c_o.jpg [flickr.com]
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/137/359998997_22c85 e7ce7_o.jpg [flickr.com]
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/154/359999058_6ae94 207a1_o.jpg [flickr.com]
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/145/359999103_f0e56 492b1_o.jpg [flickr.com]
http://farm1.static.f [flickr.com]

Re:

[dr_dank]

Those Trek season sets cost a fortune. I sure wouldn't have money left over to pick those up at $100+ a pop.

Re:

[Anonymous Cowpat]

but he does have the World at War box set and all 3 extended edition boxes of LotR so that makes up for it. What are the silver cases up in the top left?

Re:

[halivar]

The copy of Moulin Rouge counter-acts the World At War box set, so it doesn't count.

I've seen this before

[Admiral Frosty]

I remember reading about this about a year ago. The man in question was so dedicated to his fantasy that he went through bankruptcy and a divorce before he finished it.

It would have almost been worth it if the teleporter worked.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

That's a different guy. (I think he was in Britain.)

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

This is a different asocial virgin.

Re:I've seen this before

[The Good Reverend]

Why is this modded "Informative"?

You're thinking of Tony Alleyne [bbc.co.uk], who designed his apartment in grand Trek style.

Also, just to nitpick, have you ever watched Star Trek? It's "transporter", not "teleporter".

And the Shatner quote:

[simm1701]

"Have you ever kissed a girl?"

Re:

[OmniChamp]

While I do appreciate the SNL reference, I see many posts referring to this man's inability to get women with this theatre as a knee jerk response. Guys, this is Slashdot! News for Nerds! We should be over the whole "high school" mentality where every single action is interpreted as an indicator of sexual prowess. I think it's an awesome achievement regardless of whether it gets him laid or not. Let him have his time in the spotlight for crying out loud.

Re:And the Shatner quote:

[JonWan]

And your Grandmother dosen't count!

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

As a woman, I would like to point out some of the positive qualities that I would see in a guy like this: 1) He's a handyman. Seriously, girls love it when a guy can fix things around the house and do projects that make the house look nicer. Women enjoy "feathering the nest" and fixing up a boring basement to be an exceptional home theater counts as "feathering the nest". Feathering points +50.

2) It's in the basement. If you MUST have a "Star Trek" fetish, expressing it in an out of the way room like the b

Why did he..

[Omeger]

blur out the LCARS screens?

Re:Why did he..

[WebHostingGuy]

So no one could read the command codes off the screen and lower his shields. Geez, didn't you see Wrath of Kahn?

Re:

[RobTFirefly]

You know life sucks when your eyes are bugged.....

Marty Feldman? Is that you?

Re:

[geekoid]

Isn't that what they did to turn off Khan's defelctor shileds?

Re:

[DragonWriter]

Isn't that what they did to turn off Khan's defelctor shileds?

IIRC, they looked it up in the Enterprise's local copy of the Starfleet security database, they didn't read it off the screens of the Defiant.

Re:

[Jeremy Erwin]

Defiant? No, no, my friend, you've got it all wrong. Khan's ship was the Reliant.

Re:Why did he..

[Omeger]

WRONG! That was Wrath of Khan. In Generations they found out the Enterprise's shield frequency so they could fire a weapon to penetrate them.

Re:

[RobTFirefly]

All he says on the site is "The graphics used to simulate these screens were produced by the many Star Trek fans and are available from several sites on the web. The images are intenionally blurred."

Were I one of those fan artists, I'm not at all sure how I'd feel about his use of my work, so perhaps he's just protecting himself from that issue.

Re:

[MasterC]

Were I one of those fan artists, I'm not at all sure how I'd feel about his use of my work, so perhaps he's just protecting himself from that issue.

No doubt that Paramount would claim they own the fans' work (derivative work) so maybe he's protecting the fans both by not naming them and blurring the images out. Why assume malice when you (and I) don't have a clue?

Slashdotted?

[Roadmaster]

Damn and here I was waiting for the digg effect to wear off so I could see the site and then WHAM here comes slashdot.. well I guess another 2 days waiting won't hurt ...

Damn, I wanna be that guy!

[KnarfO]

...but not his server today.

entertaining!

[CheeseTroll]

Even if you're not a Trekkie, immersing yourself into a different environment like this would make for a more interesting experience. After all, isn't the point of such a room to entertain?

What I really want to know, though, is whether he requires his guests to lean dramatically back and forth during chase scenes?

Re:entertaining!

[kfg]

What I really want to know, though, is whether he requires his guests to lean dramatically back and forth during chase scenes?

All I can say is that if he invites you over to watch a movie do not, I repeat, do not wear red.

KFG

Star Wars theater is better

[mcdermd]

http://www.dillonworks.com/portfolio/starwarstheat er/ [dillonworks.com] http://www.modernhometheater.com/virtualtours/star _wars/slideshow/index.html [modernhometheater.com]

Projector for Home Theatre

[drewzhrodague]

While my home theatre doesn't look anywhere as nice as this guy's, it is imporant to note that he's using a projector, and not a (hugely expensive) plasma or LCD -- far less glass to move, HUGE image size, and higher quality

Of course, I'm using MythTV [mythtv.org], and an NEC 135LC analog 3-tube projector. Captain Kirk's head is sometimes 6 feet tall.

Re:

[Viper Daimao]

Captain Kirk's head is sometimes 6 feet tall.

Yes, but how big is it on your projector screen?

A good place to NOT wear a red shirt.

[Picass0]

When reaching for refreshments, be careful not to confuse the beer cooler and the Medusan.

Re:

[Rob the Bold]

When reaching for refreshments, be careful not to confuse the beer cooler and the Medusan.

Unless you're blind or you have an extra set of eyelids, of course.

Does it have force feedback?

[Minstrel Boy]

I want to believe that during movies with explosions and crashes, the viewers get thrown around from side to side of the bridge, er, room!

KeS

Too much time on his hands...

[martin]

Well it's better than writing viruses or sending out spam......

I was going to do it.

[ArcherB]

But I asked and my wife said:
"No way in Hell!"

Good for him

[Lazerf4rt]

The guy probably spent 4+ hours/day on a project that now makes an interesting story. Meanwhile, the rest of us of spend 4+ hours/day screwing around on the web or watching TV. Who's the one with too much free time?

I say good for him. And I yield to his nerd superiority. I'd buy him a beer, but something tells me he only drinks whatever they serve on Deep Space 9.

Re:

[Rob the Bold]

The guy probably spent 4+ hours/day on a project that now makes an interesting story. Meanwhile, the rest of us of spend 4+ hours/day screwing around on the web or watching TV. Who's the one with too much free time?

Amen to that, brother. I hate the phrase "Someone has too much time on their hands". It's a rather arrogant statement that translates as "I don't approve of how you spend your time." Who has the right to say that?

I'd buy him a beer, but something tells me he only drinks whatever they serve

OMFG

[Big Nothing]

This dude is my GOD! If he's looking for a wife, my ex-gf would KILL to marry him.

Time on hands

[massysett]

"a guy with apparently way too much time on his hands"

Actually it looks like a good thing to do with spare time: he was creative. That took some thought, design work, and craftsmanship.

"a guy with apparently way too much time on his hands" is apparently code for "I think how you spend your free time is silly."

Not thinking this through...

[TheGreatGraySkwid]

No couch? Chairs/loungers only==no snuggling.

It's almost like he never expects to have a woman over...

star trek hotel

[peter303]

The las vegas hilton, which hosts the star trek experience museum and thrill ride, has several rooms in trek-noir. I recall a casino lobby, restaurant, walkway, holding room, elevator, and a couple restrooms.

I'm impressed

[Malakusen]

He made something that looks sweet, sounds great, and is comfortable. He made it look like a set from a popular sci-fi series, while remaining practical about it. And he only spent about 15,000 on everything in that room. That might seem like a lot, but for a complete home theater, with all the trimmings, that's not a bad deal. He had the money, he used his spare time, he's got a wife and kids (and isn't some looney isolated social reject nerd), and he decided to do something pretty incredible.
Good show.

TNG Style Bridge? What a waste of time...

[mikelieman]

TOS Style is the way to go. And he likes to think of himself as a geek.

So sad, to see the children wasting their time this way..

Re:

[IdleTime]

His new mantra is "Beam me up a scotch!"

Re:What a retard!

[jimstapleton]

Yeah, well, all it takes is once...

Re:

[geekoid]

" Plenty of real good-looking and smart women"

You might want to look up the word 'Plenty'.
There are not plenty of good looking or smart girls interested in science fiction, much less women that are both.

There are a few, and I married one(yeah me), but plenty is not the word I'd use.
When you go to a star trek convention and half the attendeess are good looking and smart women, then we will have 'Plenty'.

Of course, that means that the other gender needs more good looking and smart people as well. Fortunatly m

Re:What a retard!

[Anonymous Coward]

I was going to agree whole-heartedly with you here until you clouded the issue with your obvious falsehood of (reads /.) + (goes to trek cons) + (has wife).....

Re:

[Gulthek]

When you go to a star trek convention and half the attendeess are good looking and smart women, then we will have 'Plenty'.

There's your logical problem. What you should realize is that "Interested in Science Fiction" != "Attends Conventions".

Of course, that means that the other gender needs more good looking and smart people as well. Fortunatly my wife got hers(yeah her).

That statement makes little sense. The other gender needs more good looking and smart people compared to what?

Re:What a retard!

[MS-06FZ]

Of course, that means that the other gender needs more good looking and smart people as well. Fortunatly my wife got hers(yeah her).
 
 

It must have been rather shocking when you found out about this. Well, time heals all wounds I guess.

Re:What a retard!

[Nuskrad]

Go to a Star Trek convention. How many people there are smart? Quite a few.

Ha! This isn't true, at the last convention I went to most people didn't even know that in Episode #4F04 of TOS, if you freeze frame 16237 you can see some of the sound wiring from the set. How can any true fan not know basic knowledge like this?

Re:What a retard!

[hurting now]

Hmm.... I thought that was actually near frame 10237... are you sure?

Re:What a retard!

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmmm....my calculator puts 1:4 at 25%...

Re:

[Yvanhoe]

I think 1:4 is kind of like shooting for the moon with a paper airplane.

That depends, how much megajoules is your mass driver ?

Re:What a retard!

[rblancarte]

Of course he is loaded, think of all the money he saves living in his Mom's basement!

RonB

Re:

[Lumpy]

Um redefine loaded. He is using all crappy gear. No Crestron theatre control and his finish quality is pretty cheezy.

A loaded person's home theatre goes as follows...

$15,000 or more for the projector. Acoustically transparent draper screen ($4500+) Crestron cp2e or mc2e + touchscreen or other interface. Real lighting control (Not X10 or powerline anything, give me vantage or at least a lutron graphic eye) Seating that is comfortable and not from a office supply house. Fiberoptic or LED lighting instead

Re:

[Brett Buck]

>Probably gets more tail than the average Slashdotter...

      That's not setting the bar very high. You could do better just riding on the subway - if you ever had the gut's to leave mom's basement.

        Brett

Re:To Boldly go ...

[mastershake_phd]

Where no geek has gone before

More like where no woman has gone before.

Re:

[poptones]

What makes you think he's straight?

With a room like that, he could have every 12 year old boy in the neighborhood!

Re:To Boldly go ...

[HTH NE1]

Anyone show up in^H^H out of their Betazoid costumes at that wedding?

Re:

[GreggBz]

He'll break warp 10 around the sun with a gravity slingshot effect soon enough, which, if Checov and Spock have done their calculations right, will provide him will the time he needs.

Depends on your perspective, really

[gd23ka]

"http:/www.vistahelpforum.com/"

This really depends on the perspective. Maybe spending all those hours building these Star-Treky props
wasn't "productive" for him as you'd define productive but I can imagine it was most likely an immensely
interesting and satisfying activity for him. Going from the "Vista" link you're plugging in your signature,
I'd find the time better spent building myself an LCARS-kind-of-like display than wasting my time on that.

Re:

[RobTFirefly]

what happens to the room when he puts in any Star Wars DVD?

The same thing that happens when you mention Star Wars on a Star Trek forum.. lots of pointless flames.