Connecticut Wants to Restrict Social Networking 242
csefft writes "According to the Hartford Courant, Connecticut became the latest state to want to restrict the use of MySpace and other social networking sites. The proposed bill would require that all such sites verify the identity and age of users, as well as get parent's permission for those under 18. Sites that failed to comply would be subject to a $5,000 per day fine. Attorney General Richard Blumenthal said of the proposition, 'If we can put a man on the moon, we can verify age on the Internet,' but quickly followed with the acknowledgment that there is no foolproof method."
Anyone miss the 20's? (Score:5, Funny)
Wait a sec...
Re:Anyone miss the 20's? (Score:5, Insightful)
That argument is the most stupid one I've heard in ages. Someone please establish a connection between NASA getting someone to the Moon and MySpace verifying users' authenticy*. I'm really curious.
* What really creeps me out is that someone WILL find one and be modded both funny and insightful.
Re:Anyone miss the 20's? (Score:5, Funny)
Lawmakers in Connecticut are absolutely gienus for developing this new age verification method based on space travel. I'm going to move there now.
Re:Anyone miss the 20's? (Score:4, Insightful)
Someone saying "if we can put a man on the moon, we surely should be able to do X" is a certain sign that this someone does not have the faintest idea of what he is talking about.
Re:Anyone miss the 20's? (Score:5, Insightful)
What is even funnier is the fact that right now, we can't readily put a man on the moon. However, back when we could put a man on the moon, we could also readily verify the age of everyone on the internet.
Re:Anyone miss the 20's? (Score:4, Interesting)
They both can be faked in highly convincing manners? MySpace could start verifying with credit card info, which one can obtain by going through Mom's purse. And NASA can go to a remote desert location, add a mat painting, let the motion blur of a low speed camera, "signal interference", and "audio static" make it all more authentic.
However, about as technology progresses, it may become easier to scrub the original tapes of the footage and discover the fraud, so they conveniently "lose" the original footage so they can make new "masters" with the same tech so that are harder to detect.
I don't believe the moon landing didn't happen, I'm just playing Devil's advocate.
just one problem... (Score:2, Funny)
Too bad the moon landing never happened!
Dilbert Equivalent (Score:3, Informative)
If we can put a man on the moon, we can verify age on the Internet
When I saw that quote, I immediately thought of a Dilbert strip. Luckily, somebody already put the transcript online [blogspot.com]:
Pointy-haired boss: "If we can put a man on the moon, we can build a computer made entirely of recycled paper."
Dilbert: "Your flawed analogy only shows that other people can do things."
Boss: "Maybe you should call other people and ask how they do it."
Dilbert: "Maybe they use good analogies."
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Apparently Mr Blumenthal is implying we can't put a man on the moon if we can't verify age on the internet.
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Someone has to say it. (Score:5, Insightful)
And just like putting a man on the moon can be faked, so can you fake your age on the Internet.
PS: I am not implying the moon landing was faked.
It's easy! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:It's easy! (Score:5, Insightful)
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Of course, the preferred meth
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Costs (Score:5, Insightful)
So the question is, is the government willing to pay the amount of money it would require to make that kind of age verification system, much like they were willing to pay the money required to put a man on the moon? Oh wait, no, the companies have to pay for it.
Re:Costs (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Costs (Score:4, Insightful)
So the question becomes (Score:2)
Don't forget... (Score:2)
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What defines a "social networking" site (Score:4, Insightful)
oh geez..... (Score:5, Insightful)
Why don't we also require some sort of age verification before anyone can call 1-900 numbers? There is no verification for that, and yet it's accessible to minors. OMG!!! Won't someone think of the children??
Oh wait, it's to stop older men from hurting younger women. I guess that means that someone is, just not the parents. Seriously, where does parental responsibility start these days?
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We can put a man on the moon, so we can X on the Internet
is true or even makes any sense, besides trivial values like "put pictures of men on the moon".
Re:oh geez..... (Score:5, Funny)
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Skynet! PAH! I give you [da da DAAAAAAA!] Skynet 5 [bbc.co.uk].
I spit on your puny Skynet.
How does this work? (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe MySpace will change their signup process so that when you select "Connecticut" as your home state, you go through some verification process.
What if you pretend to be from another state, create your account, then change it to Connecticut? Does MySpace have to go back and verify your age?
Ontop of all that, how the F**K are they supposed to get your parents permission?
How do they verify that the "parent" actually is your legal guardian?
Trying to find technical solutions to a social problem is an uphill battle.Note how he uses words like "might" and "perhaps". The politicians have no clue how it could possibly be implemented.
Re:How does this work? (Score:5, Insightful)
Note that verifying ages is not going to stop 14 year old girls from talking to 18 year old guys, either. What are they supposed to do, prevent children from viewing the myspace profiles of adults and vice versa? Maybe the government should just build a Children's Earth and send all the children there, and ship them back when they turn 18. Maybe they should also build a Stupid Idiot planet and go there themselves.
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It would be more cost effective to just make a Not-Stupid-Idiot planet since it would be a whole lot smaller.
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Kid: Hey, wanna earn $5?
Bum: Sure. You want beer or cigarettes?
Kid: Uh, neither. Can you just verify its OK with you that I use MySpace?
Bum: MySpace!? I may be a bum but I got morals! Next you'll tell me you read slashdot.
But but but... (Score:3, Funny)
We should encourage them to whine and mop about how life is sooooo tough in middle-class suburbia.
Tom
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Which brings us nicely to my favourite google search [google.co.uk]
Simon
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don't tell me he's one of those (Score:2)
Foolproof method of what? putting a man on the moon?
If it moves regulate it. (Score:5, Interesting)
so true..
Rep [r]: Whats this MySpace thing Bob?
Rep [d]: I dont know but its unregulated so it must be illegal.
And one thing has to do with the other... how? (Score:5, Funny)
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If we can put a man on the moon, surely we can prosecute corrupt government employees. No? How about racketeering housing developers? No? Well surely he could do something about embezzling highway contractors? Again, no. Enforcing contract terms to
Lazy parents. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Lazy parents. (Score:5, Insightful)
Conclusion: American politicians and american parents need to learn the philosphy of wearing shoes =D.
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I monitor my children's internet usage, but what about friends? My oldest daughter is 11 and she has a friend the same. Her friend's parents seem to be quite relaxed about their daughter's internet usage. This friend of my daughter met a 17 year old guy on WoW and introduced him to my daughter. IT seems that this friend of my daughter's had introduced herself and my daughter to this guy as being older than they are.
Re:Lazy parents. (Score:5, Insightful)
Whats next? Your kid has a friend with an XBOX? ZOMG! We can't let that happen - lets have laws mandating that all XBOX Live voice chat must go through age verification.
Of course, even if you put constraints on all media/communication ever (may that day never come to pass), your kid will still just be able to wander down the street to the local mall and pick up the hot older guys. The internet isn't nearly this bad, since it requires your kid to be really stupid and post personal information in order to be harmed.
When I was a kid, my parents told me not to do stupid things, and then (for the most part) left me alone. They didn't scream in my ear to stay away from drugs. Far from it. My dad said they felt great
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So ... your daughter didn't know how to stop talking to someone online. Was "bye" too hard? I mean, seriously ... this was an online chat. Ignoring the person, leaving the situation, or just plain logging off would seem to work quite well. Thats one of the other things my parents taught me - that I could (and should) leave situations that make me uncomforta
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If you think "children are being exposed to issues at an earlier age" you've led a sheltered life.
WOW is rated Teen in the first place, no? What do you want, a guardian angel? This is your excuse for legal restrictions pn the internet?
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Duh.
If you haven't raised your daughter to be trusted and/or you refuse to trust her, then you have no other choice. It may suck, but it's the bed you made by not raising her to be more resp
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If being this girl's friend puts your daughter in situations she is unable to handle yet, then YES you should absolutely discourage your daughter from hanging out with her. Yes, there is the chance she'll want to rebel and disobey you but that's part of being a parent. Step up and be a parent and don't expect politicians to make the problem go away for you.
More importantly, you need to teach your daughter how to walk away from situations. Today it's
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YES! A thousand times, YES! Even if not because of the internet access, wouldn't you want to know what kind of environment your 11-year-old daughter is being exposed to? What if it's something else like the friend's dad comes home from work and smokes a joint in the living room every day.
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Certainly criminally negligent to allow a child access to one unsupervised. I'd like to use your analogy and apply it to the Internet Access At A Friend's House scenario.
The friend's parent(s) are effectively in Loco Parentis [wikipedia.org] and the unsupervised access to the internet is absolutely down to them, much as it would be if the kids got hold of their household firearms.
Sure, implement a new law t
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Frankly, there are a ton of holes in your argument.
1) If this 17 year old were a neighbor rather than an online friend, how would this change it? Does it dictate prohibitions on 11 year olds socializing with neighbors. You know that most (90%+) of child sexual assault occurs from a close friend, neighbor or family member, right? Should we prohibit all children from interacting with males.... period. Some air
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But here's the real question for you. Let's say MySpace does implement an age verifier. Can you think of one? I can. I propose that MySpace should validate users through a credit card, with a $1 sign up fee so that it shows up on the credit card statement. What ha
If we can put a man on the moon... (Score:5, Funny)
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Now *there's* a helluva idea for a "reality show"
We send them with equipment manufactured by the lowest bidder...
SB
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Finland already did a computer simulation (warning: finnish language) [wikipedia.org] of this, and the projected result was that the Earth turned into a paradise.
One fundamental problem... (Score:5, Insightful)
Anonymity has long been a valuable component of free speech, and eliminating this is disastrous.
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There've been a lot of stories recently about the government using these social networking sites for data-mining and surveillance. The sudden "interest" that multiple state legislatures are suddenly, and virtually simultaneously, showing in these age-verification schemes is a lot more suspicious in light of that, now isn't it?
People are making comments like "Oh, this won't really matter in the long run, it's only Connecticut, blacklist their IP blocks," and so on. I wonder how long it will be until propos
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What's the difference really between a social networking site, and any other site where people communicate, be it about politics, religion, health issues, etc? Who says which ones can be anonymous and which can't, a
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How about the right to not be held to consequences for our political speech? If 50% of the employer's in the country would fire you for your political views unrelated to your job, do you have free speech? If the government finds you a suspicious character because of your political speech and decides to monitor you (reference the FBI during the civil rights movement), do you have truly free spe
Do states even have the authority? (Score:2)
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At last I understand! (Score:3, Funny)
Man on the moon? (Score:4, Interesting)
But we can't proove either worked
Great idea! (Score:2)
One big difference... (Score:5, Insightful)
Enforcable? (Score:3, Interesting)
What if MySpace simply decides to not do business in Connecticut (as in, have no office nor servers there). Can they enforce the $5000 fine? What if MySpace simply doesn't pay up? Connecticut isn't simply going to filter MySpace, is it?
I think it's just going to be like those Russian servers hosting warez. The stuff on there may not be allowed in many countries, but while it's in Russia, the only thing the US and European countries can seem to do is take action against the actual users.
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If MySpace doesn't do any significant business with Connecticut advertisers/companies, then there's nothing the State can do.
Though, if they can make more than $5,000 a day (1.825 million a year) in advertising from Connecticut, they might just mark the fines down as a cost of doing business. The only reason they would try to comply is to deal with any bad PR.
False Comparison (Score:3, Insightful)
If they can put a man on the moon, then why can't we stop them from comparing stuff to putting a man on the moon?
What will this change? (Score:2, Interesting)
First Amendment...? (Score:2)
It sounds to me as if the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution almost certainly overrules the Connecticut bill.
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Of course, at 12:01am on their 18th birthday, they are immediately handed a pack of cigarettes and a "girls gone wild" video and told "good luck with the harsh cold world kid"
Yes, this is a GREAT way to handle it.... positively brilliant in fact.
Stew
Obligatory Dilbert quote (Score:2, Funny)
Dilbert: "All that proves is that other people can do other things."
PHB: "Maybe we should find out how they did it."
Dilbert: "Maybe they used good analogies."
(note: Done from my infinitely fallible memory, might have paraphrased a teensy bit, but that's pretty close I think to what was said.)
In other news... (Score:3, Insightful)
Speaking as networking site owner... (Score:2, Informative)
Hahahaha! Stuff that fine where the sun never shines! It will never reach my sexy Swedish butt, I can assure you.
Rule #1: If you want to work with media: Do it from another country than the one you're targeting!
Somebody who goes to these sites tell me.. (Score:2, Insightful)
perspective I wonder why they are moving against these social networking sites. I always
went with the theory that these sites actually immobilize people socially with surrogate
chatroom buddies they will never meet in real life. Could it be that these sites actually
cause people to meet up face to face in real life? (That would explain their upset).
Don't blow up at me or call me names. I'm just curious.
Information for tracking the bill (Score:5, Informative)
-PHiZ
Job creation in Conneticut! (Score:2)
I guess what they can do is hire people to do this... since this is Conneticut's idea, it seems they should be footing the bill to pay the wages of the people who will have the responsibility of doing age verification.
Computers aren't smart enough for the task to be automated, so people will have to do it.
The nature of humans (Score:2, Informative)
This does not just affect technology, either. Just look at any child whose ball went into the street. He has the desire to access the ball again, so, even if it's in the middle of the road, he will try to reach it.
Similarly, in high school, it is considered "cool" to drink beer, and smoke pot. Many students succumb to peer pressure, and in order to access these forbidden substances, they wi
Blumenthal is an Astronaut? (Score:2)
Please sir, do tell us when *exactly* you've been to the moon and when *exactly* you intend to write the code necessary to identify a child on a community system with a subset of people who pride their anonymity?
I love how politicians claim abilities beyond their own capacity.
Heh, (Score:2)
Goodbye Anonymous Coward (Score:4, Interesting)
Unless the law specifically named the sites to be restricted (which of course would not be possible) or they figure out a way to specify exactly what separates MySpace or Facebook from, say, a forum for a Warcraft guild (which would be possible, I suppose, but probably not by anyone fool enough to come up with such a law) then no site will be safe from the repurcussions.
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It would certainly be possible, except keeping the list up to date with new start-up sites would be impossible (a good thing), and having a law that specially designates individuals (including corporations -- legally, they're "people" too) and punitive actions to be taken specifically against them is perilously close to a bill of attainder [wikipedia.org], a type of law explicitly proscribed by name in the Constitution
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What these idiots don't realize is that sites like myspace are only there because of popularity -- if they ban people from social netw
What's a 'Networking Site'? (Score:2)
Under the bill, networking sites that failed to verify ages and failed to obtain parental permission before posting profiles of users under age 18 would face civil penalties of up to $5,000 a day for every day of noncompliance.
I gather their target is large sites with explicit emphasis on social networking, but a lot is going to depend on how any law is worded. It could apply to anything on the internet which invites user submitted content. Like Slashdot. Or Joe Blow's Blog. Or whatever.
Canada has a large, sparsely populated, territory called Nunavut. The US should negotiate a deal with Canada to set up camps where America's children could be raised in a safe, non-networked environment, with tight contro
EULA - check here. (Score:2)
Note to Dick Blumenthal (Score:2)
Dick,
We cannot put a man on the moon. I hope that doesn't upset your wacky internet age thing.
Signed,
Reality
Never Worked (Score:3, Insightful)
Instead, my parents raised me right, and I learned to drink without driving or anything else stupid.
Making sure kids are exposed to only healthy environments is the parents' job, not the state's. Because the state will only get it awfully wrong, while parents can get it right for the specific kid.
The state might have to punish parents when their kids actually damage someone (or themselves) by taking more risks than they can handle. But starting from the point that no parents can allow their kids to do things they are ready for, even though they're not at the arbitary state age, just damages another generation of kids who should be learning from those actually responsible for them, not some official puritans and their nerveless, clumsy bureaucratic hands. Even if the scaredy-nannies want to vote for the latest buzzkill-in-chief.
Bump out trick (Score:2)
If the company takes reasonable efforts to simply block users from the states implementing these laws, they most likely can't be held responsible for any of it.
First, block IP ranges known to be entirely within the states.
Secondly, employ something similar to the "bump out" trick [truste.org] that's used to avoid COPPA [wikipedia.org] liability: offer in your registration form the ability for people to select one of these proscribed states, but when they do, inform them the site is unavailable to them (only after they make a select
Obligatory Seinfeld quote (Score:2)
Subject (Score:2)
Restrict under 18? (Score:2)
I agree it would be nearly impossible to enforce, but does that mean its a bad idea? I dont think so.
Greater Implications (Score:3, Interesting)
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Please, anyone but the EFF [theregister.co.uk]. You know, sometimes I think these organizations are founded or at least encouraged by the very groups they oppose, so they can put up a good show-fight and prevent the emergence of a real opposition.