New Review Compares MythTV to Vista MCE 234
Parkus writes "There's a nice review on AVS forum of MythTV (Ubuntu) and Windows Vista MCE. The author tried both back to back and explains the pluses and minuses of each system after using them for a month. Helpful if you're thinking about setting up your own home theater rig."
Puts on his flame retardant suit (Score:5, Informative)
That being said, if I were building a quiet entertainment center PC, I'd go with a Myth box and customize it to my liking. I can do that because I know how. Most consumers do not.
That's funny. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Digital HDTV (Score:5, Interesting)
The automatic commercial skip in MythTV is fantastic!
You watch TV shows and there are no adverts. Simple as that.
The biggest problem is resisting to urge to pick up the remote when the show is leading into an ad break
Both machines can record ATSC HDTV and Digital Cable (QAM) - running a total of 4 digital tuners (2 x HDHomeRun network digital tuners with two tuner each - http://www.silicondust.com/ [silicondust.com])
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
ONLY Vista MCE can use a PCI Cablecard adapter giving you ALL digital cable channels to record from as well as ALL HDTV channels.
your MythTV can never Ever tune in and record ALL the HD channels, only a few of the total lineup.
That one little thing you forgot is a major show-stopper for most people, and I really hope someone hacks the cablecard somehow to give us cablecard capability for mythtv.
Re:Digital HDTV (Score:5, Informative)
You can't buy a cablecard tuner for a PC - Vista or otherwise. The only PC-based option is to buy a PC that the manufacturer had certified as a complete system (software, hardware, monitor, etc).
The fallback option is to use an analog capture card and to prioritize the digital tuners over the analog capture so you get high-def whenever possible.
Nick
Re: (Score:2)
The analog fallback is going to go away sooner or later - if I had to guess, not long after the analog OTA channels are phased out. The cable companies desperately want to phase out analog channels - they eat much more spectrum than digital channels, and look worse to boot. That's the problem with MythTV, at least in the US: unless something changes, you'r
Re: (Score:2)
The cable companies desperately want to phase out analog channels - they eat much more spectrum than digital channels, and look worse to boot.
Really? What cable company or satellite company are you using? In my experience, they all have awfully high compression that doesn't work for shit with cartoons/anime/CGI (e.g., Jimmy Newtron). It's barely a high enough bitrate for live TV. These companies all seem to be using MPEG-2 video compression, however, so there's a lot of room for improvement by using MPEG-4 ASP or AVC for example, but that would require more expensive STBs and whatnot.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Macs rule when it comes to this kind of thing -- they come with built-in FireWire, and with a free download of Apple's FireWire SDK, you get an app that will let you record & playback the MPEG2-TS data that the STB streams out its FireWire port.
Re: (Score:2)
Strangely, with my provider, CBS's HD channel is encrypted, but NBC, ABC, and Fox's are not. While I can record and play NBC, ABC, Fox's HD channel, for CBS I have resort
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Digital HDTV (Score:4, Insightful)
With the way the market looks to be headed, certified systems that contain cablecard adapters will only be available at the "high-end" (same shit, higher price) of the consumer PC market. It keeps the price high enough that instead of hacking some windows box, you may as well save yourself some money and buy yourself a Tivo.
I do long for the day that I can build a media center PC that can record encrypted HD, but I don't see it happening any time soon. The distribution industry owns our legislature, and younger, technically savvy people don't vote.
Re: (Score:2)
While I understand that some people just like to wrench their own stuff, can either MythTV or Vista really outperform a Tivo at this point?
A couple of years ago, my brother-in-law a
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Does your Tivo let you use bittorrent to automagically download new episodes of shows that don't air in your market? Or choose codecs and options to *REALLY* compress archived content, for long term storage?
No, not that I know of. That's probably important to some people but to me...not so much. I want to plop down in front of the TV and grab the remote and press a few buttons and have the thing work. As far as I can tell, that doesn't seem to happen with any of the PC-based solutions.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I'm surprised more commercials haven't transitioned over to 16:9. Our weather bunny on the 16:9 station has referenced things off screen before "You people with HD know what I'm talking
Re: (Score:2)
What gets me is all the 16:9 ads that they show on HD channels in SD format, but letterboxed into a 4:3 window. Those ads end up as a postage-stamp size rectangle in the middle of my screen. What are they thinking?
No Credibility (Score:2, Interesting)
He ends the review by just deciding to say all praise steve, the technological messiah, he will purge us of these heathan devices and bath us in his warm white iglow of technological perfection. At best apple TV is an overhype
Re:No Credibility (Score:5, Interesting)
I suppose there's the electronics manufacturers -- e.g. Sony (too tied to locking everything down), Phillips, Toshiba, LG, Samsung, a boatload of Chinese companies... aside from Sony (which has no chance) I think they're long shots.
No effect on credibility. (Score:4, Insightful)
What he said is that we'll have to put up with MCE and MythTV UNTIL Steve Jobs decides to include DVR functionality into Apple TV. And he's RIGHT. The only person on PLANET EARTH who seems to understand what people want from their consumer electronics is Steven Jobs, CEO and co-founder of Apple Incorporated.
And his obvious bias? What are you stupid? The man is a pro-Linux person. He's worked with organizations dedicated to Linux. If he's biased its towards LINUX not Apple. So care to explain your ANTI-Apple bias?
No Different to Any Other Review Really (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, we know, MythTV configuration sucks, especially if you're changing anything after initial set up. Anything else?
Yes, installing a plethora of drivers on a Windows system after you've sat there endlessly waiting for it to install sucks. It sucks even harder when one of those drivers decides to not work, or you find that you have to install them in a certain order. Then an automatic update screws things. Linux scores there.
So you still have to fanny about with your system even when you've spent 198 euros on a piece of software that should just recognise everything and take the head scratching out of the equation that you had to do with MythTV? I think we have a winner there to be honest, because at least with MythTV there's going to be something somewhere that will enable you to get it working - however awful that is. Hauppage and Microsoft won't fix it because it will probably be down to a combination of drivers and MCE software, and anyway, they simply won't give a toss about you or your problem until you're stumping up cash for the next version.
That's probably the single biggest reason why no one wants Windows on their TV. Microsoft just don't get how much more critical a TV is to people than a computer.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:No Different to Any Other Review Really (Score:4, Insightful)
MythTV is better, IMO (Score:4, Insightful)
2: Not made by Microsoft (just kidding, although that is a factor for some people)
3: No DRM
Yeah, it might be a bit harder to set up. That's obviously a downside. On the other hand, you can rip all your DVD, no problem, without Windoze being mean. His complaints about rippng DVDs being illegal are invalid because:
a) If you're watching them on Linux, (in US) you're already breaking the law.
b) I bought the DVD at my local Best Buy, and I'm not giving it to other people, so I'll do what I want with it.
Yes, Point b) might not be exactly legal, but you see where I'm coming from. Also: MythTV has seperate front- and back- ends, so you can stream media to other parts of the house.
Windows MCE and DRM (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Point b is called "civil disobedience", and I think we should remember this and point it out.
I rip DVDs and watch them on Linux. Often, someone in the house will rent a DVD for everyone to watch, but I'm busy, so I rip it and watch it later, once the disc is back in the store. I acknowledge that all of this is illegal, and if caught, I may well go quietly. I am deliberately disobeying this law, however, to express that I do not ag
Is there any choice at all? (Score:4, Insightful)
- DRM,
- spyware (not the common hidden kind, Microsoft written spyware)
- fewer formats supported
. You also can't- use it for any purpose,
- make custom changes,
- copy it for your friends who liked it very much and would like to get a copy,
- publish a modified version that, you know... removes said spyware and DRM, which everyone would like to but Microsoft and content providers don't want you to remove from Windows Media Center
Now... at the cost of maybe a little harder to use or set up, with MythTV or even Freevo which I like better than MythTV, you don't get DRM or spyware, you can play as many file formats as you want, and you have all the freedom you could ever need. Is there *any* choice at all? O Rlly?Re: (Score:2)
The basic difference (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
MythTV requires a little tinkering to get running, but is very flexible. I think this is really what it comes down to with most Windows VS. FOSS situations
</quote>
True, but if you use a canned distro designed to run on dedicated PVR boxen, such as Knoppmyth [mysettopbox.tv] or Mythdora [swik.net], you can get mythtv to "just work off the bat" too (at least with most standard configs). I installed Knoppmyth version R5E50 from scratch a couple of weeks ago in my hauppauge pvr-350 + pvr 150 dual tuner box with the
Re: (Score:2)
1) Cost: WindowsMCE was $200 to start, much more than the free I spent on Ubuntu/MythTV. In fact there was no way to even try MCE without purchasing a copy, so I could only try it out on other systems. I ended up building a trial machine on an old 1GHz P3 ($35 at a surplus sale), and an still running on that. THere is no way that Vista/MCE would run well on that hardware.
2) Frexibility: I currently have a backend/frontend in my kitchen, a
TV Tuners (Score:4, Insightful)
DVD backup illegality? (Score:3, Interesting)
"DVD importer looks like it could work well, but it's illegal I think to backup DVDs even for personal use, right?"
When assumptions like this are made, even with slight question, it's clear that the author is misinformed and the MPAA has won.
For the record, at least in the United States, it's not illegal to create backups of any of your owned media, DVDs included. Doing so is protected as Fair Use of the copyright of which you have purchased a license. Selling or otherwise distributing your backup copies is not protected, however, and backups must be destroyed or transferred when the ownership of the original media license is transferred.
Of course, Fair Use goes out the window if you sign an agreement stating that you will obey certain provisions that work against Fair Use. But you'd never agree to such terms, right?
Right?
Re:DVD backup illegality? (Score:5, Insightful)
Your argument would be correct with the minor exception of that pesky DMCA. Currently in the US, backing up a DVD that you've purchased involves bypassing a digital encryption algorithm, which is explicitly prohibited by the DMCA. This renders the rest of your argument moot. Repeatedly seeing these same incorrect things spouted over and over and over again as gospel around here is really making me want to go to law school for copyright law. It's clear that many of you have no interest in actually understanding the law and what is and isn't legal. How do you expect to actually bring about the necessary changes when you can't be bothered to understand the underlying problems?
Re: (Score:2)
I believe that's not quite right: making a bit-for-bit copy doesn't automatically violate the DMCA, because you're not decrypting anything. If you choose to remove the encryption, _then_ you've violated the DMCA. (And, of course, you have to remove the encryption in order to wa
Re: (Score:2)
I would add that even if they do enact laws to make it illegal, i.e. the DMCA, it does not mean that you should not do it. Sometimes it is necessary for people to engage in civil disobedience [wikipedia.org] by breaking such laws. When the movie industry uses DRM to control the use of content you purchased/licensed and tries to force you and your children to w
Re: (Score:2)
Take for example how there's a constitutional right to privacy that protects against random sobriety testing, but in the state of New York you give your implied consent to such testing by driving. Law/right? Great, now try to exercise it, we dare you.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I believe in the MPAA vs 2600 case, the judge basically avoided the whole fair use issue by saying people could use other formats (ie VHS) to excercis
6 of one, half dozen of the other (Score:2)
Vista Media Center Horizontal Menus (Score:2, Informative)
MCE is probably the best product microsoft has wri
Re: (Score:2)
What's The Point? (Score:2)
I can understand wanting to download stuff to a local computer and use it. No big deal there. I can understand modifying my DirecTivo to let me pull stuff down and save it for later.
But really... why do I want to save it for later? Why do I need to buy a gigantic HD and store hundreds of DVDs? (Really, why ever bother buying a damn DVD at all?)
I want to do a MythTV box, I really do. If
Re: (Score:2)
You're right that for most people, "what's the point?" is a very valid question. But we're a bunch of geeks here, and the idea of turning on the TV and using the remote to start watc
Re: (Score:2)
And by the way: Winter != holed up in a crappy little house with nothing to do outdoors.
Re: (Score:2)
How about a good hardware review? (Score:2)
The FOSS solution wins everytime (Score:3, Interesting)
Windows Media Center Restricts Cable TV [slashdot.org]
Re: (Score:2)
Look closer. [slashdot.org]
my mythtv experience (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Uhh, just to be clear, what you mean is "if you have a nice, widescreen HDTV and HD channels". MythTV works just fine on widescreen displays (and has a number of widescreen themes), and will work just fine with digital cable, in the sense that you can capture content from a digital cable box, which you can drive with an IR blaster (my system has two DSTBs, each driven with a serial port blaster... works beautifully,
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
MythTV for n00bs? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:dumbest review ever (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
(details may vary with the ISP but that's fairly typical for ADSL, cable has mor
Re: (Score:2)
I've read that none of the current ones actually accept output from a cable or satellite box after it has done the decoding via DVI, HDMI, VGA, YPbPr / Component? So are you only able to save over the air signals?
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not sure I trust the author either. (Score:4, Funny)
The author, who you call a "zealot" says this about himself:
This sounds, to me, like half the astroturf here on Slashdot. No self respecting free software advocate would call themselves a "Microsoft-hater" or a "zealot". These are terms M$ has made up to defend their non free software, digital restrictions, licensing and other obnoxious practices. Anyone who values freedom is labled this way by non free software companies. Dislike of these practices does not make a person blind. His objectivity is suspect to say the least.
You say:
Then he proceeds to say since mythtv cant do HDTV and Media center can, he is going to hold off on HDTV. WTF that alone makes MythTV totally useless for a huge number of techies.
You might mention the reason for that:
Oh, huge minus there. There are cards that work.
You might also mention that most free software minuses are legally created fictions. It's still against the law to distribute a full free media system in the US. Your company risks a raid if they do so much as tell you where to get things, so it's a good thing Mark Shuttleworth is from South Africa.
All and all, I'm not sure if this message from new member "Sprak" is what it says it is or if it's just another PR ass wiper from the Redmond lie machine. Besides "Microsoft-hater" he uses a lot of other M$ keywords, "[M$] do hire some smart and talented people", "Vista install was pretty painless with some nice eyecandy and a generally more "serious" look than XP", "there is a feeling of connectedness in the software" and so on and so forth. You can spot these things from a mile away. They all sound the same because they all come with the same marching orders and talking points. Only someone intimately familiar with Windoze workarounds can make Vista work the way he did or would have the M$ brainwash language so ingrained into their thoughts. Such a person would not have time know free software, much less be a LUG officer.
Re: (Score:2)
I think you'd have more credibility if you didn't use words like 'Windoze' and 'M$' - I reckon the best way to get people using GNU software is to affirm it's advantages, not just bag out MS stuff all the time (fan as it can be
I hope you take this as the friendly advice that it is.
Interesting loophole you found, AC. (Score:2)
Thank you for giving me the best laugh of the day. I mean, you're the one who can't do anything *but* mention how much you hate Microsoft and Windows. I'm going to keep this link as a little treasure, and every time you spew hatred about Microsoft, Windows and non-free software in general I'm going to post it.
What an interesting moderation manipulation. You have taken a comment that was mostly informative and insightful and turned it into a "funny" comment with one or two modpoints. To prove your abili
Moderators: twitter == Erris (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Then he proceeds to say since mythtv cant do HDTV and Media center can, he is going to hold off on HDTV.
Did you read the same post I did? The author states that he held off of HDTV because he didn't have any HDTV signals where he was, not that Myth won't do HDTV. It does HDTV nicely, in fact. Interesting that the next post after the article stated something about the front end crashing the backend. I've had my Myth box up for about 60 days now (last downtime was a power outage) and neither the front or backend has crashed at all.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Of course, the major problem introduced by Vista compared to XP MCE for me is that, upon detecting that I'm using component video, Vista assumes I'm using an HDTV and "fixes" the resolution for me during the installation process, making it virtually impossible to co
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
When I installed Windows (before switching to Ubuntu) I had to use a CD to install drivers just to connect to the internet, and then I had to use Windows Update again and again (rebooting between each one) to get all the other drivers.
There's lots of support for Windows, but Windows itself actu
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Driver problems in Vista, but not Linux? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Ok, most people realize that the MFRs write the drivers, not MS. And yes Vista specific driver support is lacking in some areas, as moving to the new audio model, video model, network stack, etc can be tricky for native driver support in Vista.
However, I can understand why you would use this as a dig against Vista, but the thing you and others miss, 'just install the freaking XP drivers'. 99% of XP drivers work just fine on Vista, as MS left in legacy hooks for
Re:Driver problems in Vista, but not Linux? (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, "most people" don't really know or give a damn. If the drivers for an OS sucks, the OS sucks. Full stop.
This was the problem with Linux until recently; if you didn't have the right drivers for the hardware you wanted to use, then you couldn't do what you wanted to do -- everything else, any other benefits the OS might have, are moot. It's dead in the water.
Problems with latest nVidia drivers (Score:5, Informative)
BTW, the reviewer mentioned that he had to roll back to an early-version nVidia driver because he got stuttering video with the newest drivers. I had this problem, too. What happened is that nVidia shipped the earlier versions of its drivers with the Inverse Telecine option turned off. In the new drivers, it defaults to on -- and that's what causes the stuttering video in MCE. Pull up the nVidia Control Panel, go to the "Video & Television" options, select the "Enhancements" panel, and uncheck the box that says "Use Inverse Telecine." Video will play smoothly again.
Re: (Score:2)
day jobs and switchers. (Score:4, Interesting)
a lot of GNU/Linux people either are stuck dealing with Windows in their day jobs
If the author of the article was really familiar with Windoze, he would have known to use XP and third party applications for his media center. If not, he would never have made Vista work. There's a lot about this article that does not add up and I smell a switcher attack [slashdot.org].
Re: (Score:2)
Interesting change of heart (Score:2)
I find this recommendation very intriguing twitter, considering posts of yours like this one [slashdot.org]. Quote:
no change of heart, M$ still sucks. (Score:2)
At some point I suppose you decided that it was pointless to spend all your time spewing FUD about "Windoze XP" and you've now decided to switch gears to FUDing Vista instead.
No, XP still sucks. As a PVR it has poor uptime and should not be connected to the internet. Just the same, the author should know that XP is more stable than Vista and there's more software and hardware available for XP to make a PVR than there is for Vista.
Someone who really knows what they are doing has MythTV working. You
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Hyperbole at best, utter bollocks at worst. Cite. Go on. All those new laptops being sold, they're all to "hardest core fanboys", are they? No, I'm not talking about the fraction of a per cent who want XP again, I'm talking about the 99.9x% of users who have it. Hard core fanboys, are they? You might want to consider a sedative - the rage and
The market for digital restrictions is zero. (Score:2)
All those new laptops being sold, they're all to "hardest core fanboys", are they? No, I'm not talking about the fraction of a per cent who want XP again, I'm talking about the 99.9x% of users who have it. Hard core fanboys, are they?
Count them for me, before the vendors go out of business [slashdot.org]. Other restrictive devices have failed in the past. M$ has made the mistake of making their whole OS into a restrictive device and people are not buying it.
Re: (Score:2)
You made a post [slashdot.org] to that story twitter. Why not link to that instead? Perhaps the -1, Troll moderation you got on it is inconvenient?
I'm still waiting for a reply on that one, BTW.
Re: (Score:2)
Circuit City, too? You are aware that computers were only a fraction of CC's revenue stream? And that even within that, your attempt to pin it on Microsoft is, what's the word I'm looking for? Laughable.
Re: (Score:2)
MythTV is growing into much more than a PVR and it scares M$ the MAFIAA silly. It's getting video conferencing, games, email and browsing - which all look great on HD TV's
If this was anyone but twitter posting, I'd be asking if he had too much to drink.
Surface [Video] [com.com] When this Vista tech hits the home market, it is going to be
Re:not mythtv -- Wait, yes it is! (Score:5, Interesting)
When I read the article is was very clearly talking about MythTV compared to Vista MCE. I don't think he tried Linux MCE at all.
Linux MCE is a very different animal and MythTV only forms a small part of it. http://linuxmce.com/ [linuxmce.com] It's an amazing piece of software.
---
http://www.linuxlaptops.eu/ [linuxlaptops.eu]
Re: (Score:2)
Parent is incorrect. (Score:2, Informative)
Mods really need to RTFA before they start modding people "informative".
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Nice review, but... (Score:4, Funny)
Having read TFA, my take on it is that he likes the "look and feel" of Vista MCE better. Fair enough.
Having seen the "look and feel" of TFA, I would call that a glowing endorsement of MythTV.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
That's your upper lip.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)