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United States Government Privacy Politics

Congress Considers Forcing Travel Registration 321

Posted by Zonk from the looking-forward-to-travel-visas-for-interstate-trade dept.
macduffman writes "Congress and the Department of Homeland Security are considering several new visa restrictions, including forcing some foreign travelers to register their travel plans online 48 hours in advance. Business advocacy groups are worried about both foreign relations and the economic impact of such legislation, while privacy concerns see this as another possible 'in' for identity thieves. From the article: 'Along with online registration, the updated program would require new and existing member countries to improve data-sharing; more rigorously report lost and stolen passports (not just blank passports); and guarantee they will repatriate nationals if those people are ordered out of the United States. "It's really a 21st-century model," said James Carafano, a Heritage Foundation analyst who specializes in homeland security. "It'll all be done electronically and biometrically. And it really doesn't compromise your privacy."'"
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Congress Considers Forcing Travel Registration More

Congress Considers Forcing Travel Registration

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  • "It's really a 21st-centry model." (Score:5, Insightful)

    by HTH NE1 ( 675604 ) on Friday June 15, 2007 @06:37PM (#19526031)

    "It's really a 21st-century model," said James Carafano, a Heritage Foundation analyst who specializes in homeland security.
    It's really a 21st-century police state.

    • Re:"It's really a 21st-centry model." (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Original Replica ( 908688 ) on Friday June 15, 2007 @06:54PM (#19526281) Journal
      But it's only being applied to foreigners, so it will be ok with enough short sighted fools to get pushed through before there is any real thought or debate on the issue. Then it will be extended to include Americains who are considered "threats". Then the definition of who consistutes a "threat" will be expanded. Then it will include everyone, but likely be automated, via the purchase of your plane tickets being automatically entered into a Homeland Security tracking database.

      I wish this all sounded more paranoid than probable.

      • Well... (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        I have just one thing to say:

        "Papers, please."

        • Obligatory obscure quote:

          This is Side Five. Follow in your book and repeat after me as we learn three new words in Turkish: Towel, Bath, Border.... May I see your passport, Please.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jd ( 1658 )
      Model: Idealistic, simplified representation of something that exists. Usually static and non-functional, hence the phrase "working model" to denote a model that works. As applied to people, usually refers to individuals who are unhealthy/near-death and plasticized for the purpose of persuading the extremely rich to buy something other than what is shown.

      I think the word apples extremely well to this piece of legislative insanity. Hell, virtually every civilization that has ever existed has rapidly discov

    • Re:"It's really a 21st-centry model." (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Chris Burke ( 6130 ) on Friday June 15, 2007 @07:23PM (#19526627) Homepage
      It's really a 21st-century police state.

      Yeah, and like most police state tactics, it completely fails to address the actual problem they claim they are solving. Which is ultimately good for them, because the continuation of the problem justifies them taking even more power (that also won't solve the problem).

      In case anyone dosen't remember, all of the 9/11 hijackers travelled with valid ID.

      So now the hijackers will register their names two days in advance. BFD. They aren't going to use anyone on our known list of terrorists, they aren't going to use anyone who our pointless profiling picks up. They will be completely legal, record-free, and unknown to any law enforcement or intelligence agency. They will walk right through the security checkpoint, grumbling just as loud as the guy behind them about the inconvenience.

      This shit is useful for catching Cat Stevens, providing a false sense of security, more power to the police state, and not a damn thing else.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by kmac06 ( 608921 )
        That comment's not insightful at all. Regardless of how poor these watch lists may be implemented, some real terrorist threats will make their way on them. And those people will then be prevented from legally traveling without the government knowing about it. Now of course the privacy issues (not to mention the freedom issues--what if a relative dies/is dying and I need to leave NOW) make this a bad idea, and of course not every potential terrorist will be on the watch list, but that doesn't mean this would

        • Re:"It's really a 21st-centry model." (Score:5, Interesting)

          by Shag ( 3737 ) on Friday June 15, 2007 @09:25PM (#19527765) Journal

          Regardless of how poor these watch lists may be implemented, some real terrorist threats will make their way on them.
          Fascinating bit of logic you've got, there. Let me generalize it a bit:

          Any sufficiently long random string eventually includes the name of a terrorist.

          If you give a bunch of monkeys typewriters, sooner or later they'll type "Osama bin Laden."

          Now, maybe you can argue that the methodology being used to create and implement these lists is superior to that of giving typewriters to monkeys... or then again, maybe you can't.

          Personally, I don't look forward to what I expect will be the eventual inevitable expansion of this program to include US citizens. I fly to about four continents a year, and go to US-friendly, popular-with-US-tourists places like Indonesia (CIA: the world's largest Muslim population) and Turkey (CIA: Muslim 99.8% (mostly Sunni)). Thus far I haven't developed much faith in DHS's ability to keep friends and foes straight.

          • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

            by Sancho ( 17056 )
            We clearly can't work off of names, as they aren't unique. Every person on the planet ought to be assigned a number. Since terrorists would just refuse to give up their number, we'll just implant a chip containing that number. Then, our watchlists will be perfect.

            Digital Angel, here we come!

    • Russia's Old Fashioned (Score:4, Insightful)

      by slarrg ( 931336 ) on Friday June 15, 2007 @07:29PM (#19526679)
      In Russia's old-fashioned system, as an American I have to register my travel in Russia as I travel. But in the USSA they're going to require 48 hours advance notice. What an improvement.
      • That was my thought exactly. Got to hand it to the US, bravely trying our best not to let Russia beat us to the title of "industrialized nation most annoying to foreign travelers."

        I'd wager that we're not quite as frustrating as Russia yet, at least from the point of view of EU citizens, but we're making good time.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by plover ( 150551 ) *
      Here's the real difference.

      "Papiere, bitte" has become "Deine Ausweiskarte ablichten, bitte" (thanks, Google Translate!)

      Only this time it'll be spoken in English.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by mormop ( 415983 )
      "It's really a 21st-century police state."

      It's really a 21st century way of fucking your own tourist industry. Let's see, I can take a holiday in Spain, Italy wherever or I can submit all my personal information to a foreign government and apply in writing two days before departure risking deportation if the customs guy doesn't like my face. Tough choice......

  • My Prediction (Score:5, Interesting)

    by SRA8 ( 859587 ) on Friday June 15, 2007 @06:38PM (#19526039)
    Just watch, I predict:
    TSA: "no sir, we cannot allow you back into the US -- we have no record of you leaving."
    You: "but i did register, here is the printout of the confirmation page"
    TSA: "sorry sir, its not in the computer."

    Other predictions: such predicaments happen more often to Arabs, Muslims, minorities, and members of the ACLU

  • Like Predicting the Sun Rising in the East (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sehlat ( 180760 ) on Friday June 15, 2007 @06:44PM (#19526129)
    Sooner or later, this will be applied to ordinary citizens, as well.

    "I'm sorry, sir, but you didn't register your travel plans to go from Oakland to San Francisco."

    "But my wife's having a baby and that's the nearest hospital!"

    "Then where is the BABY's travel registration."
    • Heh, that reminds me of the breastfeeding mother who bottled her own milk in advance and was forced by TSA to drink it.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by maxume ( 22995 )
      You realize that people from countries other than the United States generally are ordinary citizens right? Just not of the U.S.

  • Godwin (Score:4, Funny)

    by MadUndergrad ( 950779 ) on Friday June 15, 2007 @06:48PM (#19526183)
    Vhere are your papers?

  • Newspeak and Doublethink (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 15, 2007 @06:50PM (#19526207)
    > It's really a 21st-century model", said James Carafano, a Heritage Foundation analyst who specializes in homeland security. "It'll all be done electronically and biometrically. And it really doesn't compromise your privacy."'

    Spectacular. In the 20th century, of course, that sort of thing was the opposite of "not compromising your privacy", and the sort of thing we used to think of as the domain of the Soviet Union.

    But in Newspeak, we have the advantages of doublethink and duckspeak, and it no longer feels as weird. Thus: "20thinkers unbellyfeel Amsoc. 21thinkers bellyfell Amsoc! Carafano doubleplusgood HomeSec doublethinking duckspeaker!"

    Speaking of the Soviet Union, from TFA:

    > Applicant countries say U.S. officials are living in the past if they are worried about a flood of East Europeans entering - and not leaving.
    >
    > "Many people in the U.S. seem to believe it is a natural instinct of every Pole, Hungarian or Slovak to want to stay in the U.S.," Reiter said. "This is totally wrong today."

    No Newspeak translation available:
    "In Soviet Russia, people fleeing from tyranny wanted to stay in America!"

    • So funny... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by FatSean ( 18753 ) on Friday June 15, 2007 @07:05PM (#19526415) Homepage Journal
      Growing up, I graduated highschool in 1992. I was fed a whole bunch of crap about how the 'bad soviets spy on their people' and the 'bad soviets imprison people with no chance of trial' and 'bad soviets take their peoples' rights and tell them it's for security'/

      How ironic that those adults who were so frothy about the USSR==bad and USA==good based on those claims, are now supporting the use of those tactics in the USA!

      I asked a few of them to explain the contradiction. They said that it's better to be safe than sorry! How funny!

      • Re:So funny... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Chris Burke ( 6130 ) on Friday June 15, 2007 @07:32PM (#19526721) Homepage
        Growing up, I graduated highschool in 1992. I was fed a whole bunch of crap about how the 'bad soviets spy on their people' and the 'bad soviets imprison people with no chance of trial' and 'bad soviets take their peoples' rights and tell them it's for security'/

        Exactly. When I was a kid the USSR was bad because of all those things they did, and the USA was great because we didn't do any of those things.

        At some point, I'm not sure when, it no longer became about what we did The USA was just magically the best no matter what simply because it's the USA. I think maybe it happened around the same time you started seeing those bumper stickers with the flag and "The Power of Pride". Because apparently if you just believe that your country is super-awesome, it will do great things. Via magic.

        How are pride and wishful thinking working out for us in Iraq? Maybe if I just have more pride we'll win...

        BTW, someone needs to mod the OP up some more, because that was hilarious.

        • Re:So funny... (Score:4, Insightful)

          by Lemmy Caution ( 8378 ) on Friday June 15, 2007 @07:37PM (#19526797) Homepage
          What's important is that the excuses are the same: the USSR had nothing against the hard-working fellow comrade, it was the enemies of socialism that were the problem. And, there really were enemies of socialism, very well-organized, funded and armed ones supported by the West, from the very earliest days of the Russian revolution. Just as in the US, the excuse happened to be based on a truth.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by rthille ( 8526 )
          Yep, the "common patriot":
              'Sure, we reviled "them" when they did it, but "they" aren't "us", so when we do it, it's great!'

          I fucking hate those flag waving morons.

          I love the US because of the Constitution and the feeling that _all_ men (meaning people) are created equal, and should be given equal opportunities, not because I was born here.

          I hate what we we've become in the last 6.5 years.

  • Tourism revenues (Score:5, Insightful)

    by A beautiful mind ( 821714 ) on Friday June 15, 2007 @06:54PM (#19526285)
    There are figures that your economy is losing out [ljworld.com] in the magnitude of tens of billion dollars due to decreased tourism to the USA because of stupid procedures. I know that I'm not willing to go to the USA as long as I'm treated as a criminal and I'm not alone with that sentiment.

    These new plans are just bound to make it worse.

    • Re:Tourism revenues (Score:5, Insightful)

      by robably ( 1044462 ) on Friday June 15, 2007 @07:33PM (#19526753) Journal

      I know that I'm not willing to go to the USA as long as I'm treated as a criminal and I'm not alone with that sentiment.
      Amen. I feel the same way about the USA now as I do about Stonehenge - I'm glad I visited it years ago before it was spoiled by the barriers they put up.
  • This current caval sure likes to keep information from the public, and for such a secretive bunch they surely don't like to extend the same courtesy to their citizens. Mind you, we pay the administration's salaries so at the end of the day they are our employees... and I would surely love to know what my employees are up to.
  • I decided a couple of years ago that the USA was not a country that I wanted to visit: too much invasion of privacy; the country that has sponsored more terrorism than any other over the last 50 years; ignores any responsibility under Kyoto/global-warming; attempts to export its own laws to other countries; abuses power of trade for its own ends - doesn't play by the rules ...

    Unfortunately: the UK seems to be following the USA; maybe a new prime minister will have more of a mind of his own - but I suspect t
  • So, we can assume that next local citizens have to register if they want to travel, lets say more then 50 miles from home, or across a state line? Or how about have to sign in if you enter any public building...

  • As a european.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sjwest ( 948274 ) on Friday June 15, 2007 @06:56PM (#19526323)

    Visiting the usa again got less desire-able. No i don't think i will be doing that conference in the US this year again.

    While i respect the feeling that getting blown up by saudi arabian (bin g. w. bush relative) is a valid fud for the american public i don't like the aspect that all 'aliens' go to America to cause trouble.

    I'm not of middle eastern origin etc but I'd still rather not visit. A thing in a national newspaper in england recently from a Journalist said that even stopping in america to jump on another plane (two hour stop-over) at Miami was the pits.

    Republicans seeking tax cuts might like to know that the tourist promotions e.g. 'visit usa' might be got rid of on the basis that america it seems does not really like the concept of 'short term visitors*'

    * a month or less.

    • No i don't think i will be doing that conference in the US this year again.
      Eh, we won't go to your conferences either - but that's because our government won't let us anymore :( Man, we're just screwed backwards and forwards.
    • Basically, i agree.

      But i have to go there for my job, so i cant help it.

      At least when i am there, in berkeley the facist police state isnt visible yet :)

  • They don't understand what data security is (Score:3, Insightful)

    by MonGuSE ( 798397 ) on Friday June 15, 2007 @07:03PM (#19526399)
    "It'll all be done electronically and biometrically. And it really doesn't compromise your privacy."

    Someone should shoot these people that come up with these concoctions for security solutions. Need to fly last minute to Toronto or vice versa sorry you didn't schedule it 48 hours in advance so you must be a terrorist. Give me a damn break. Then don't get me started on his convoluted assertion that it doesn't open people up to invasions of privacy or identity theft. Every additional time you have to transmit your information, every additional database with your information, every additional set of eyes that gets to look at your information is just another spot in the chain at which point information can be stolen and/or misused. We should send this guy through dressed as an Arab with a head scarf a few times and see how he feels after getting a few rectal exams for foreign objects and the verbal abuse at every stage along the way that 'suspicious' people take.

    Contrary to what Bush thinks the terrorist did succeed in setting into motion the process of destroying our freedoms that this country used to stand for. After that we should put his personal information up on the bulletin board at the post office for everyone to see and ask him how he feels after someone empties out his bank accounts and owes thousands of dollars in back taxes.
  • I am honestly disappointed, although not surprised. But I wonder if the direction ever will change..? It might be that I will go to the US for business if it is required, but for pleasure, very, very unlikely as long as this continues... I am seriously wondering if things will turn around during my lifetime, I hope so because I would like to go to the US again, just not under these circumstances.

  • USSA (Score:2, Insightful)

    by dogsbestfriend ( 755362 )
    Yeah, this was a requirement for visiting the old communist countries, wasn't it? And that was the differentiating factor between the 'free' countries and the rest of the world. Whats next? Secret police and wiretaps without warrants? Prison sentences without trial? Gulags? oh wait..

  • Try visiting Australia (Score:3, Informative)

    by cdrguru ( 88047 ) on Friday June 15, 2007 @07:10PM (#19526481) Homepage
    You need an "electronic visa" to get in.

    Try leaving Japan sometime. They charge to leave.

    The US so far hasn't been doing much in this area and it certainly high time we start. $1 entrance fee would easily pay for lots and lots of border inspectors.

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Brobock ( 226116 )
      Try leaving Japan sometime. They charge to leave.

      I just left Japan about a week ago, I was not charged. I do this annually and never been charged to leave. I am also a US citizen however.

    • Re:Try visiting Australia (Score:4, Informative)

      by amuro98 ( 461673 ) on Friday June 15, 2007 @08:09PM (#19527191)
      *sigh* that's an AIRPORT TAX. Other places have them too. Even the locals/citizens have to pay it. It has nothing to do with your visa, your travelplans, you being a foreigner (or a citizen) or your privacy.

      Now if you want something identical here, why not attack the "gaijin card" ID they make all longterm foreigners get, now with mandatory fingerprinting. Even then, you weren't required to tell the government that you wanted to go visit Kyoto over the weekend... Sheesh.
  • > "And it really doesn't compromise your privacy."

    I don't know if the man should be charged with high treason or criminal stupidity.

    • "Shun the tyranny of the or and embrace the genius of the and."

      I don't know who first said that, but he's brilliant.

  • When the system indicates that 1/4 of the population has registered to travel impossible schedules, I'm not going to be flying that day.

  • Sorry if this sounds like a troll... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by adnonsense ( 826530 ) on Friday June 15, 2007 @07:19PM (#19526581) Homepage Journal

    ... but the way things are going, in a few years time the only foreigners visiting the US will be crawling up over the southern border, or brought in on CIA charter flights.

    Me, last year I had an invite to go to the US - I've never been but would truly like to go - but was in two minds because it overlapped with something else - and after taking a look at what it might involve in terms of proving I'm not a terrorist (I have an old-fashioned paper passport) I gave it a miss.

    And purleease, when I fly long-haul I like to take a big bottle of water to stop me dehydrating. A effing bottle of HO for chrissake. Whaddy think I'm gonna do with it, split out the hydrogen and ignite it? Yet I can buy a bottle of whisky at the duty free.

    (sorry about the rant, feel free to mod me down, but I have to get it out of my system before I go on a rampage on my next flight).

    • And purleease, when I fly long-haul I like to take a big bottle of water to stop me dehydrating. A effing bottle of HO for chrissake. Whaddy think I'm gonna do with it, split out the hydrogen and ignite it? Yet I can buy a bottle of whisky at the duty free.

      It only took a month or so of this stupidity for TSA to realize how dumb it was. But of course, they can't completely roll it back -- that would be admitting they were wrong.

      The "compromise" is really profitable for the airport vendors: you can buy

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Petrushka ( 815171 )

      after taking a look at what it might involve in terms of proving I'm not a terrorist (I have an old-fashioned paper passport) I gave it a miss.

      Out of interest, I've been warned by an immigration official in my own country to avoid travelling to the US because of the type of passport I have. That startled me.

      And purleease, when I fly long-haul I like to take a big bottle of water to stop me dehydrating. A effing bottle of HO for chrissake.

      Be fair, now, it was the Brits that started the business of prohibiting water on aeroplanes, not the Americans. And it was they that forced it on the rest of the world (as the Americans so often do). Though, not that it matters where the paranoia originated, really. I just miss being able to go on domestic flights in my own country without

  • If you are really planning on continuing the police state that we already are increasingly living in, I plan to travel. THE FUCK OUT OF HERE.

    PS. Good luck ruling the world with a country full of illegal immigrants, mindless corporate automatons and military personnel. I think that's all you'll have left after the rest of us leave.

  • Where to travel? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by freedumb2000 ( 966222 )
    This would be even more restrictive than it used to be travelling to East Germany, which was not really fun either. I feel less and less a free human who can move around this world, that i was born into, freely. Just when you thought it couldn't get much worse (so soon!)...

  • This nonsense is costing us jobs (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 15, 2007 @07:33PM (#19526755)
    People don't want to travel to the US of A anymore because they're more afraid of the customs goons than the terrorists.

    Scientists don't want to come to conferences. Families don't want to go to Disney World.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/2/story.cfm?c_id =2&objectid=10436518 [nzherald.co.nz]

    In a recent poll of international travellers, commissioned by Discover America Partnership, a coalition of US tourist organisations, 70 per cent of respondents said they feared US officials more than terrorists or criminals. Another 66 per cent worried they would be detained for some minor blunder, such as wrongly filling out an official form or being mistaken for a terrorist, while 55 per cent say officials are "rude."


    Are we safer? There's no data to prove it. Are innocent people suffering? Yes. Even Senator Kennedy got on the no-fly list.

    It's stupid. It's costing us jobs. It's costing us the liberty our fathers died to preserve.

    • Re:This nonsense is costing us jobs (Score:4, Funny)

      by commodoresloat ( 172735 ) * on Friday June 15, 2007 @08:23PM (#19527327)

      Are innocent people suffering? Yes. Even Senator Kennedy got on the no-fly list.
      Jeez, you could have picked a better example of an "innocent" person...
    • People don't want to travel to the US of A anymore because they're more afraid of the customs goons than the terrorists.

      It's interesting that you mention that... this morning I was actually coming back to the US from a business trip to Mexico (which I had 24 hours notice of beforehand, but that's been discussed elsewhere by others). As I was waiting in line to have my passport checked, I noticed these LCD screens were showing one of those "informative" videos showing what to do when going through Immigrati
  • We're going to love it when other countries start applying the same rules to US citizens who want to visit. Right now when you go to Chile you have to buy a visa at the airport for $100, payable in cash, before you can enter the country. How was the price set? Well, it's the same amount we charge Chileans visiting the US.

    Want to go across the border to see Niagra Falls from the Canadian side. I can see it now, the highway will be lined with booths with computers to allow you to 'register' your itinerary

  • ...but does it compromise my privacy? (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward

    And it really doesn't compromise your privacy.

    Wow, I'm convinced. Sign me up.

  • WTF happened to the Shining City? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by lelitsch ( 31136 ) on Friday June 15, 2007 @07:44PM (#19526889)
    But in my mind it was a tall proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, wind-swept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace, a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity, and if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it and see it still.

    Ronald Reagan
    Farewell Address to the Nation [reaganfoundation.org]
    Oval Office
    January 11, 1989

    Amazing how far the Republican Party has moved in 18 years.
  • immediately. they are nothing more then another layer of bureaucracy that does nothing to stop terrorism.

    That money need to go to the CIA/NSA/FBI and to coming up with a good foreign policy.

    HSA was created to create some confusion and allow an agency to get around pesky rules established to protect our rights.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Hatta ( 162192 )

      HSA was created to create some confusion and allow an agency to get around pesky rules established to protect our rights.


      HSA [ustreas.gov]? Do you mean DHS [dhs.gov]?

  • Reply to previous posters (Score:5, Interesting)

    by deblau ( 68023 ) <slashdot.25.flickboy@spamgourmet.com> on Friday June 15, 2007 @07:58PM (#19527059) Journal
    This is for those who say that soon US citizens will have domestic travel restrictions. You'll be happy to know that the Privileges or Immunities Clause [wikipedia.org] of the Fourteenth Amendment,* while long the laughing stock of the other Clauses for being largely read out of the Constitution entirely [wikipedia.org], was resurrected [wikipedia.org] in 1999 by the Supreme Court for the very narrow purpose of, you guessed it, guaranteeing the right to travel. Any law passed by Congress that infringes this right would likely be found unconstitutional.**

    * Not to be confused with the Privileges and Immunities Clause [wikipedia.org] from Article IV.
    ** For those of you paying very close attention, the doctrine was revived in obiter dicta, at least insofar as it applies to travel between the States. Still, even under the rationale of the Slaughterhouse Cases, I think it likely that the Court would find this a fundamental right. Of course, we won't know for sure until and unless the law is passed and a case tried...

    • Re:Reply to previous posters (Score:4, Insightful)

      by element-o.p. ( 939033 ) on Friday June 15, 2007 @08:52PM (#19527577) Homepage
      Be that as it may, our current president seems intent upon trampling all over the Bill of Rights and the articles of the Constitution itself. Maybe I'm just cynical, but somehow I don't think that a government that:

      1) allowed the NSA monitoring program to continue in spite of the fourth amendment, and
      2) determined that since the Constitution only prohibits suspending a writ of habeas corpus rather than explicitly granting a writ of habeas corpus, then a writ of habeas corpus is not guaranteed by the Constitution

      ...is going to get all worked up over a (relatively) obscure interpretation of the 14th amendment.

      I hope I'm wrong, but the evidence so far suggests otherwise.

  • No travel plans in China (Score:3, Informative)

    by spooje ( 582773 ) <{spooje} {at} {hotmail.com}> on Friday June 15, 2007 @08:00PM (#19527095) Homepage
    I'd just like to point out as an American living in China I've never been required to tell the government where I plan to travel other than to tell them where I work, but that was only to get my visa. When I want to go on trips I just take off. I've never had a waiting period to buy plane or train tickets.
  • If we just ask the terrorists where they will be staying and what their plans are, we will have no difficulties thwarting their plans. These are pious folk - they wouldn't lie.
  • Anytime you see the word "really" in a statment like that, I find it generally to be false. "I really didn't think it tasted that bad.", "I really wanted to help that homeless person but all I had was a 5.", or "I really didn't mean to be rude but I was just really pissed off." You get the point.
  • Orwell wasn't all that far off.
    • Shut up you unoriginal flake of a human being. OMG it's orwell, no it's some other cliche end of the world despair. You voted for those people. Here's a tip, take responsibility for your nation. Organize educational debates, don't put up with the riff-raff of cheap shots and empty sentiment. Get the population to actually weigh the issues on more than "which one appeals to my righteous ignorant sense of direction best."

      Frankly, you all deserve the shit that happens there. So do us Canadians. Where I
      • _I_ didn't vote for these people. And I will not take responsibility for that which is not under my control.

        Get the population to actually weigh the issues on more than "which one appeals to my righteous ignorant sense of direction best."
        Sure, just as soon as I'm finished squaring the circle and holding back the tide.
  • Thank you for giving me the opportunity of seeing your country many times between 1992 and 1998, travelling all over the country, seeing Lake Michigan, walking on Broadway, seeing the Capitol, admiring broads in Santa Monica, falling in love in San Francisco, gambling in Vegas and being stranded in Kansas. Meeting online friends from usenet, from business and family.

    The only thing I filed online back then was a confirmation of my meeting with some broad from San Francisco I met in alt.drunken.bastards

    I pity
  • "And it really doesn't compromise your privacy."

    Registering my personal trip plans with the government doesn't compromise my privacy? Fuck off. What a bloody joke.

  • Another reason I invest in foreign stocks (Score:3, Insightful)

    by AK Marc ( 707885 ) on Friday June 15, 2007 @08:41PM (#19527469)
    I traveled to China last year. I talked to people there that tried to buy things from companies in the US but were unable to go to the US. They bought from Europe instead. One of the largest makers of networking gear got that way because the prices on US produced gear was high, and the import/export restrictions pretty much made it illegal to sell many versions of the products in foreign countries (encryption and such). The business travelers can't get in. The US sets up artificial barriers to prevent foreigners from buying US made gear. The end result is that money just flows out of the US, increasing the trade deficit and harming domestic companies. It just seems like such moves are economic suicide. I can't understand why we continue hurt ourselves with our immigration policies.
  • Rare risk and overreactions. A great article on human psychology and our "failures" inside our own brain: http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram-0706.html [schneier.com]

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