German Prosecutors Won't Help RIAA Counterpart 199
NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "A German court decision ruled that the European counterpart to the RIAA cannot invoke criminal proceedings over petty file sharing incidents. The goal was to to find out from ISPs the identity of alleged file-sharing subscribers; the requests have been refused as the judge saw the the proceedings as not in the 'public interest', and little or no economic damage was shown to have been caused to the record companies. Offering a few copyright-protected music tracks via a P2P network client was 'a petty offense,' the court declared. Within days, German prosecutors have now indicated that they will no longer permit the use of 'criminal proceedings' to procure subscriber information."
If only... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:If only... (Score:4, Funny)
"golf clap for our .DE brethren"
Does this mean there will be a pirate ship anchoring off the coast of Germany any time soon?
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
model and accepted practice. As much as the kids that believe it
it is acceptable to download music tracks without paying for them.
Touche'.... I think we are at loggerheads.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
That's not the way it is supposed to work. The legislators are supposed to work in the best interests of the people. If they fail (see 1 year jail time for recording a short clip of a movie for the purposes of a review), the executive is supposed to also exercise judgement to protect the interests of the people. If the executive fails to p
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Also, there seems to be a lot of Americans espousing the view that this isn't "the job of the courts", and it just makes them look ignorant and silly... and, well, typically American. American law is derived from British Common Law, whereas German law is derived from Napoleonic Law; those are disparate systems in which "the job of the courts" differs significantly.
Re: (Score:2)
Your reading comprehender needs adjusting. "Public interest" != "public whim".
Neither is what the court should be working for.
Also, there seems to be a lot of Americans espousing the view that this isn't "the job of the courts", and it just makes them look ignorant and silly... and, well, typically American. American law is derived from British Common Law, whereas German law is derived from Napoleonic Law; those are disparate systems in which "the job of the courts" differs significantly.
If you read the GP, you'll see that it suggests American courts should do this.
Re: (Score:2)
Wow. Just wow.
You do realize that the American Constitution is founded on the principle of the entire government (courts included) existing for no purpose *other* than serving the public interest, right?
If your point is that individual judges should avoid making decisions about *how* to serve the public interesting, you're doing a terrible job making it.
Re: (Score:2)
Even though you may not want them to do that, this is exactly their purpose. And so you know, the executive enforces the law.
WTF are you talking about? (Score:5, Insightful)
I sure wish... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Where these cases belong... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Where these cases belong... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Answers the judge (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
If people are going to make grandiose statements like this it would be best to understand a bit about the legal system.
Re: (Score:2)
Bravo for reading more into my statement than I meant.
Re: (Score:2)
1. By pursuing civil action first how does that help or hinder a potential criminal proceeding?
2. Could I get as much help from law enforcement since I wasn't charging the defendant with a criminal charge?
Think what you will of the RIAA but the legal aspects of not hitting the accused with criminal charges could be damaging to a case against them. But I an not a lawyer, that's why I'm asking these kinds of questions.
Re: (Score:2)
In a "pure" civil case, you get jack from law enforcement. In this case, they will help you at request, but you first of all would have to have at least some sort of evidence or at least a reason to accuse at your hands before they will. That's why the mafiaa tries so hard to push copyright laws into the "hard criminal" area, usually reserved for things like murder, organized crime and professional cri
Re: (Score:2)
Criminal offenses usually require "public interest in prosecution". And even there exists a difference between public interest in prosecution (where you, as the damaged party, don't have a say whether they prosecute, when your son tries to kill you, the general attorney WILL press charges, no matter if you want the case to rest) and prosecution at the damaged party's asking (if someone steals from you, the poli
sounds like they learned a lesson (Score:2, Funny)
Kudos!
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Kudos!
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
hear hear! (Score:2)
This is great (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:This is great (Score:4, Informative)
The RIAA's opening gambit is to get the name and address of the person who paid for an internet access account, and then to sue that person.
In the US it brings fake copyright infringement lawsuits against "John Does", with no intention of prosecuting those cases, but with the sole aim of getting the name and address information. They bring the action hundreds or thousands of miles from where the John Doe lives and could actually fight back, in a court where they could never get jurisdiction over that John Doe, and they bring on the discovery motion ex parte so that the defendant never finds out about until it's too late. (Process described in my article How the RIAA Litigation Process Works [blogspot.com]). They don't tell the judge it's a fake case. They just pretend it's a regular copyright infringement case, and that this is just some early discovery in the case. Then after the order is signed authorizing them to subpoena the ISP, they drop the sham case.
In Germany they've been using -- up until now -- sham criminal proceedings to accomplish the same result, because in Germany they couldn't have gotten the identity information in a civil case. The German judges and prosecutors have finally realized how they were being used, and have put a stop to it.
It appears that some of the United States judges are starting to catch [blogspot.com] on [blogspot.com] as well.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I see your point, but I guess one problem is that the RIAA can argue (reasonably if mendaciously) that they can't bring the John Doe cases in an appropriate venue because they don't know where they are.
Actually... no they could not make that argument.
Once one has an IP address, one can identify the state and the region of the state in which the user of the IP address is located. There are websites that are freely available to the public that provide this information. So the RIAA could easily bring the suit in the right location.
But that's not the way the RIAA lawyers work. They do things in the sneakiest and most unfair method that they can get away with.
Judge Garcia, in the New Mexico case, realize
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
You have to do quite a bit to have your group or organisation outlawed in Germany. But it's equally impossible to become a recognized church.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Think of the children! (Score:2, Funny)
Deutschland Uber Alles! (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Deutschland Uber Alles! (Score:5, Informative)
...and why not exactly? It is part of their national anthem and has no Nazi-party origins or connections. Contrary to what WW1 British propaganda said about the Hun, "Deutschland über alles" is not a claim of racial or national superiority, since "alles" means "everything", not "everybody". It was originally meant as "uniting the country is more important than petty state interest" when the country was united in the second half of the 19th century; it is basically a federalist motto.
Then again, it's in German, and everything in German looks scary... including Geschwindigkeitbegrenzung and Streichholzschächtelchen.
Re:Deutschland Uber Alles! (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Deutschland Uber Alles! (Score:4, Informative)
As you said, the words do mean "Germany above everything", but I fail to see how you can find that alright. Your country above your family? Your love? Your honor? It's an evil concept when taken out of its original context (1848 revolutions, when nationalism was liberal and meant freedom from the German monarchs, and progress) and applied to a modern industrial nation, as the Nazis did (when nationalism became utter hell).
You are wrong in your believe that the words are part of Germany's current national anthem. Due to its mentioned older age, post-war Germany decided to keep the anthem, but not to sing the defiled first stanza. Instead, only the third stanza is sung, "unity and justice and freedom". Freudian slips are frowned upon and for a politician would mean nearly immediate resignation.
Re:Deutschland Uber Alles! (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure, and the Pledge of Allegiance in the US is satanic because you are worshiping an idol (the flag). And yes, I've heard more than one person claim this.
Your country above your family? Your love? Your honor? It's an evil concept when taken out of its original context (1848 revolutions, when nationalism was liberal and meant freedom from the German monarchs, and progress) and applied to a modern industrial nation, as the Nazis did (when nationalism became utter hell).
I've heard that the military in the US espouses "God, country, family" in that order. Again, that puts the country above the family, love, honor and all that. Is that evil too?
Re: (Score:2)
Hey, just look at this stanza from the British National Anthem:
O Lord, our God, arise,
Scatter her enemies,
And make them fall.
Confound their politics,
Frustrate their knavish tricks,
On Thee our hopes we fix,
God save us all.
Knavish tricks? Oo-er. Basically, national anthems are all full of crap, and no one genuinely takes them seriously. Plus,
The third stanza (Score:2)
That's actually the reason why the third and only the third stanza comprises the current German anthem [wikipedia.org], this time around the goal was to do away with stupid crap. The Germans found out the hard way that being overly nationalistic and patriotic can lead to very bad things. I you check the lyrics of the third stanza you will see that it is very peaceful (no mention of any enemies or other evils that need to be erad
Re: (Score:2)
I've heard that the military in the US espouses "God, country, family" in that order.
Q.E.D.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Instead, the third verse is now the official text of the German anthem. Same melody, but it now goes "Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit" (unity and justice and freedom). It's more pleasing to the ear, and les
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Deutschland Uber Alles! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Deutschland über Alles! (Score:2)
The line from the German National Anthem usually strikes awkuard feelings in a German because it was severly abused by the Nazis. After all, it means 'Germany, Germany over everything' which the Nazis interpreted quite literally - as we all know.
However, it initially was meant as an anthem to encourage the forming of a single German Reich as opposed to sticking with the 300+ little dwarf kingdoms and principalities the territory of Germany was made up back some 200
Re: (Score:2)
American news release... (Score:4, Funny)
"we are bringing freedom to all of the euopean continent" Dick cheny said after he bit the head off a chicken and sucked the blood out.
Re:American news release... (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Hey, I used to be a /. moderator. I feel insulted by your comment. I hope today's moderators mod you down.
Threatening Germany (Score:5, Informative)
What this decision says that's really important is that file sharing isn't the big deal the RIAA affiliated companies -- and Elton John -- make it out to be. And the losses due to a few files shared isn't HUGE AMOUNTS OF DOLLARS, like the RIAA sues for. And that there are other crimes that are far more damaging to society than guaranteeing a profit forever (Sonny Bono Copyright Extension into Eternity Act) for an old industry in a new age. And that the public prosecutors don't work for free for the record industry any longer.
Nice to hear someone say all that.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Sir Elton said we should shut down the entire Internet for five years, because it was destroying music as he knows it. That includes every independent selling or sharing their music over the Internet. That includes Web-Radio. That includes filesharing.
He seems to feel that independent artists like Chip Davis (Mannheim Steamroller), Mike Oldfield (Tubular Bells, Ommadawn), and every kid who can't afford a record studio, but can afford
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe everybody just doesn't want to interact with Sir Elton. He is a bit out of control in some regards.
Re:Threatening Germany (Score:5, Informative)
On the other hand, this is a decision at the lowest tier of Germany's court system. Unless the RIAA equivalent appeals twice (first to the Landgericht, then to an Oberlandesgericht) and gets smacked down, this doesn't really have any legal binding for other German courts.
The Heise article makes the interesting point that the prosecutors' offices in see these cases as a waste of time, so they'll probably be even more reluctant to bring charges.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Threatening Germany (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Threatening GermanyQuit Trolling for Flamebait (Score:2)
Iraq had an elite, well-equipped, army of their own. They are probably in the top 5 or so of countries that could put up a fight. And they didn't, preferring to be smacked down convincingly instead.
De minimis non curat lex (Score:5, Informative)
If a Country Really Wanted to Rip the Music Indust (Score:5, Interesting)
And once it went out of copyright there, it would be cut free out into the world.
Talk about something to really scare the record companies.
Re:If a Country Really Wanted to Rip the Music Ind (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Wow (Score:5, Insightful)
Yet another country passes us on the personal freedom issue.
Re: (Score:2)
Oblig (Score:2)
Well, Come on, before ze Germans get here.
Germany, eh? (Score:3, Interesting)
An old english expression (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
They probably looked on their childrens computer (Score:2)
Thank God (Score:3, Informative)
The complaints never even get as far as to a single court hearing anyway. The mafiaa used to do this for reasons I commented on on another article:
http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=253607&ci
In other words ... (Score:2)
Wait a minute! Did you..... (Score:2, Funny)
Wait a minute. Did you just sneak in Godwin's Rule? You didn't mention NAZIs, but then again you implied it. Arrrrrgh! I can't tell! My brain hurts!
Re: (Score:2)
Storm troopers originated in the First World War, so the term can safely be used in Godwin-sensitive environments.
Re:History reversed (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Now, if by US courts supporting the RIAA you mean they aren't immediately throwing out the case... then yes, you have a point.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:German music sucks (Score:5, Insightful)
Mozart died a pauper, while Clementi got rich (Score:2)
Despite being famous, great, etc. Mozart died penniless and was buried in a common grave.
I don't know if Mozart ever copyrighted his stuff, but a contemporary of his, Muzio Clementi [wikipedia.org], did, and made a fairly good living publishing his own stuff (and Beethoven's!) and lived a pretty comfortable life, despite being neither as famous nor as talented as Mozart. He was pretty upset when Mozart stole one of his themes for the Overture of Die Zauberflote.
I don't know if he sicked the Classical RIAA on them or no
Re:Mozart died a pauper, while Clementi got rich (Score:5, Informative)
Mozart demanded three florins for a hour of music education he gave. The maid who was working for him and his wife, got 12 florins per annum as a salary. So basicly with half a day of work he made as much as normal people in a year.
Later one his widow died with a wealth of five million florins, just because of the income from her late husbands work. It was not the income thad made Mozart penniless.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Europeans have a funny way of adopting national heroes. Which is understandable, considering that national boundaries were very much in flux until after WW2. See for example the status of Alsace and Lorraine, Polish boundaries, existence of the Baltic states, etc. Doesn't mean that
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
They do [com.com].
Re: (Score:2)
But that's another issue.
Re: (Score:2)
I hope.