Paramount to Drop Blu-Ray for HD-DVD 476
JM78 writes to tell us The New York Times is reporting that Paramount Pictures and DreamWorks Animation will be dropping support for Blu-ray Disc and going solely with HD-DVD for their next gen DVDs. "Jeffrey Katzenberg, CEO of DreamWorks Animation, said consumers seeking to switch to high-definition DVDs will be enticed by the movies available for HD-DVD players. He added the lower price for the Toshiba devices will appeal to the family market. 'It's a game-changer, what they're doing, and it's why we decided to throw in with them,' Katzenberg said."
Yeah, right. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Yeah, right. (Score:5, Insightful)
The studios will go wherever the biggest user base is eventually.
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It also depends on if you are using it on a PC, then you need PowerDVD Ultra for playback which $70-100, free if you hack it.
Also you'll need AnyDVD HD ($
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Besides, I would've thought Satan himself would've bought up all those copies for Hell. 6+ hours of them and I'd be begging for the fire and brimstone! I can take just about anything except dirty, smelly hippies.
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Re:Yeah, right. (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Yeah, right. (Score:5, Funny)
> My understanding is that HD-DVD does not do uncompressed audio
> like Blu-Ray. That alone is enough to sell me on Blu-Ray. I
> spent $20,000 on the audio system for my home entertainment
> center and I want the best quality media. I don't care if I
> can buy a HD-DVD player for $100 cheaper than a Blu-Ray --
> if the quality isn't there, it isn't of interest.
> by ResidntGeek (772730) on Tuesday August 21, @01:18AM (#20301043)
> HD-DVD does support mandatory Linear PCM, so no worries there.
I like how that guy spent $20,000 on audio equipment, but can't do 30 seconds of research. I really need some clients like him.
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Re:Yeah, right. (Score:5, Informative)
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If you don't have a HDTV and are not contemplating one in the next few years this is a non event, although for those people with PS3's (approaching 5M world wide)
Re:So which one do we support? (Score:4, Insightful)
Blu-Ray has two levels of encryption, one of them can apparently only be broken for an individual Blu-Ray disk and player.
So if you looking for something that can easily be ripped/ played on free software then you need to back HD-DVD.
Re:Yeah, right. (Score:5, Informative)
Doubly suspicious since the family friendly Blockbuster Rental stores simply will be stocking mostly Blu-Ray.
"Paramount's move comes weeks after Blockbuster, the DVD rental chain, said it would stock more Blu-ray discs to cope with rising consumer demand."
From the article here;
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e8569e16-4f61-11dc-b485
Re:Yeah, right. (Score:4, Insightful)
The real question is, will Blockbuster stay that way now that Paramount made the switch?
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Not exclusively, anyway. There's loads of people making Blu-Ray players. In fact, HD-DVD is far worse from this point of view - the only major backing it's receiving is from Toshiba and Microsoft.
I don't know why people keep perpetuating this. Sure, Sony has a reputation for pushing proprietary formats when everybody else is co-operating, but on this occasion it's the other way round.
The "only" major backing? (Score:4, Informative)
I don't know where you heard this, but HD-DVD has many more backers than "only" Toshiba and Microsoft. Here is a short list [wikipedia.org]. Also, keep in mind that HD-DVD is the format supported by the DVD Forum [wikipedia.org], aka the DVD consortium, the builders and maintainers of the original DVD format, which means that every company that backs DVDs is indirectly backing HD-DVD, whether they want to or not.
And while it's true that a common misconception is that Sony "owns" Blu-ray, it's also true that Sony is THE major backer and has the most at stake in Blu-ray winning the format war. The movie studios are still on the fence. Even the studios that released Blu-ray versions of movies have only released minor movies and old movies, and could switch at the drop of a hat at any time. Ditto Blockbuster video. If Blu-ray suddenly and dramatically lost the format war to HD-DVD, they wouldn't be impacted very much. (They've planned it that way, incidentally.) However, Sony sold its soul in including the Blu-ray drive in its PS3, and if the format fails, they'll be FUBAR.
Of course, I personally don't think that Blu-ray or HD-DVD will win the format war. The next major format is not media at all; it's network delivery of content. Ten years from now, the concept of having to put a disc into a drive to watch a movie will seem quaint.
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I doubt that in the next ten years the network providers in this country will get their heads out of their asses -- apparently their asses are full of our money and they see no reason to perform the rectal-cranial extraction -- enough to actually m
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I mean, the cheapest player around is the PS3 and we all know Sony's taking a massive kicking on those.
What's the Motive? (Score:2, Interesting)
It seems to me that they are trying to steer towards a format that contains half the data storage capacity with the goal of having yet another format go obsolete sooner rather than later. They must make a ton of money when people re-purchase titles on a new format. Soon these same studios will be 'crying' because they don't have enough data space on a disc, therefore they have to push a new standar
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Actually, there's a decent examination of the possible reasons for the choice over at Fat Harry's Bullshit Emporium and Discount Taxidermist [aintitcool.com].
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Re:What's the Motive? (Score:5, Insightful)
Besides, do you really think there will be another physical format after this? I'd be willing to bet that by the time this format war is finished and another one ready to begin, digital distribution will be quite ubiquitous.
Does anyone even care at this point? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (Score:5, Insightful)
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CDs actually had quite a bit of competition from cassette tapes early on. The quality of pre-recorded tapes improved as did the decks, and other than a bit of background hiss they could hold their own against CDs which were about double the price.
The first audio CDs (US$
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But then again I remember stories about how someone during the birth of the compact disc walked around on them lying on the floor, and well, we all know how good storing your discs on the floor are, not very
Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (Score:4, Informative)
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The format war needs to end, either through surrender (unlikely) or through dual-format players becoming available.
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Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (Score:4, Informative)
I held off on LaserDisc way before the DVD even began development, because I was certain that within a few years someone would come out with a format that put LaserDisc quality on something the size of a CD. That was a good decision. However, I'm actually pretty happy with DVD. Yeah, I can see artifacts on my 100" projector, but I don't have any problems ignoring them and just watching the movie.
I'll get an HD player at some point but it won't bother me in the least if it's 5 or 10 years from now. I probably won't bother until I can buy an HD-R drive for my computer for $50.
Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (Score:4, Informative)
Many, many films today use digital color correction or digital effects at 2k (2048x1080p) resolution. Major films, including Mann's Collateral and Miami Vice, Episode III, and others are 'filmed' digitally at 2k resolution with great success.
Go see a digital cinema. It is shockingly better - sharper, no gate jitter, and no noise. 2K is more than adequete.
Nowhere near 20MP, not even 10. Not even 2. (Score:4, Informative)
Plus when projected, the actual resolution of film as seen off the silver screen is very, very low. This is simply because running at 24 fps through a projector and being stopped for a brief moment it is on screen, the frame is never completely flat or motionless. Plus the frame is tiny and the much larger magnification needed compared to a digital projector's CCD/whatever brings with it a lot of unsharpness due to lens flaws. Not to mention the positive film you see in the theater is a 3rd or 4th generation copy from the original negative.
This is why even 2K digital scans in the theater are a lot sharper than any project 35mm/24fps film will ever be. Not to mention far less black time in between frames.
Back to HD-DVD:
If you have a computer or laptop capable of playing it back and an HDTV with HDMI or DVI input (or a converter plug) you should try a downloaded HD rip. (search for "1080p" on any torrent site) I only have a 37" 720p TV with a rather good upscaling HDMI DVD player. But even at just 720p, downloaded 4 mb/sec x264 movies ripped from BR/HDVD played back on this TV using DVI from my MacBook Pro look a lot better than any upscaled DVDs.
I also can't wait for Dolby TrueHD audio from the actual discs!
That said, a far cheaper upgrade would have been h.264 on the same 9GB disk. No room for TrueHD audio, but any feature film would have fit at a high enough bitrate to put any DVD to shame.
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DVD
You can buy a good player for under $100. Some even have HD upconversion for that price. You can buy a cheap DVD player for $15.
Everyone rents and new movies sell for $15.
HD-DVD $300 min for a player. $25-$35 for a movie.
Blu-Ray $450 min player, $25-$30 for a movie.
Combo player $1000
The investment cost is enough that people don't want to pick the wrong format. If they would have settled on one format, more people would be
Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (Score:5, Informative)
Curse of the Combo Disc (Score:4, Informative)
Because HD-DVD ships you combo discs that play in both normal DVD players and HD-DVD players - and you get to pay extra for the priviledge.
As a bonus, sometimes the layers seperate and destroy the disc 300 had that issue. It's not common though, just like the Blu-Ray layer seperation issue was in small batches. Still, paying extra for discs where you only want the HD content is really annoying.
Re:Does anyone even care at this point? (Score:5, Insightful)
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I know I don't. It really doesn't matter if Blu-Ray or HD-DVD wins out in the end, there can't be that many consumers out there who are planning to start upgrading their existing DVD collection to one of these formats. I have an HDTV and regular DVD's look just fine. I know these new formats offer better quality, but the difference and enhancements are not enough to warrant an upgrade. From VHS to DVD was worthwhile, this is just a stop gap measure. I personally don't plan to upgrade at all until something significantly better comes along. Maybe the next generation after this...
I for one am holding of from investing in HDTV. Don't get me wrong, I like HDTV esp. the fact that I don't need cable to get the local stations without static. I more than like the fact that I can get into a large 720p TV for under a grand. There simply isn't enough in the way of programing to really enjoy HD at present, and this whole format war doesn't help.
And let's face it, early adopters pay the most and get the least benefit except being able to say I got it first.
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The excuse that there isn't enough HD programming is so last year.
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Well, funny thing is, if this continues, neither will. The movie market is quite unlike the game console market. Exclusives for a format means consumers will buy either hybrids that play both formats, or nothing.
In a game console you're expected to buy 2-3 great games and maybe 7-8 average games, and play those for years. For a movie player, if 30% of your favorite movies aren't available to you never mind which HD format you p
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Microsoft 'bribed' the two into dropping Blueray (Score:3, Informative)
I'm not sure it was the best timing ... (Score:5, Interesting)
With Sony's recent price drop, the sales of their console have increased. As far as consoles go, this isn't a tremendous jump -- they're still trailing behind Microsoft and Nintendo as far as sales. As far as HD-Movie players go, however, this is quite a jump. According to 'figures' and sources [kotaku.com]., they are seeing up to a 135% increase in sales after their price drop. That's a lot of Blu-ray players on the market that weren't there a short time ago.
Personally, I'm pissed! I purchased a PS3 during the price drop and I'm ok with what Sony has to offer for the console and with what movies are presently out (though, admittedly, I'd like more on both fronts), but you'll notice I said 'ok', I didn't say I was a raving Sony fanboy. I think there could be more selection of movies and games -- and it saddens me that I will now not be able to own a 1080p copy of Transformers to watch on my 51" HDTV because some pockets were apparently lined. [deadlineho...ddaily.com]
I understand that I'm not the norm in the market -- a lot of people don't have HDTVs, and a lot of people that do don't have big-screened HDTVs, but even with that, I think that it's a big step backwards for Paramount to alienate my class of shopper.
Then again, I'm sure everyone who was alienated by the Betamax -> VHS move was saying the same thing then
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Cheers.
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On another note... Holy cow. I just looked at 1080p projectors. I am NOT buying another TV. The Optoma HD80 1080p projector with a ceiling mount (I'd run the cables professional-quality myself) is my new goal. Run one HDMI cable, use a fully HDMI24 compliant HDMI switch for four sources, and you have yourself a hell of a system that 3 years ago would've cost $30,000 but today is under $3
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Money Talks (Score:5, Informative)
Blogger "Swanni" says the HD-DVD folks coughed up 100 mil to help Paramount reach the decision.
- js.
http://www.tvpredictions.com/bluraypay082007.htm [tvpredictions.com]Microsoft coughed up the money (Score:2, Insightful)
Hey, Toshiba! (Score:4, Funny)
They said they want their market disruption techniques back.
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(I know. She said you were so bad she didn't know whether to laugh or just kick you out and finish the job all by herself.)
Baby pay twice *sings* (Score:5, Insightful)
Great, paying for two licenses always rule! Because one open one wouldn't do!
What was chinas next-gen format called now again? I would assume their players will be cheap
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Reading the tea leaves... I'll call it "DVD+HD". Red-laser players, HD-DVD format, $89 at Wal Mart this Christmas. Not as good as HD-DVD, but an improvement over SD-DVD, and likely to be warmly embraced by porn due to having plenty of space for an hour and a half of 720p60 with 224kbit audio. At worst, they'll handle two hours of 720p24, and might even be able to do 1080p24.
It'll be a stopgap format, but it'll
Sure, keep changing things, that will win loyalty. (Score:5, Insightful)
Consumers won't buy into either format until they see some signs of stability.
As long as it's on-again, off-again, now-you-see-it, now-you-don't, consumers will just hold off.
Once a company declares it will support either format... or both... it should stick with whatever they've announced. Fickle commitments that change every six months just hurt both formats.
As with the stock market, what investors hate is uncertainty.
It is nowhere near over yet. (Score:3, Insightful)
It could be that this is not a Beta / VHS format war, it be a Laserdisc flop and neither of the new formats will catch on; so far, it does not appear that people see a compelling reason to buy either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray players and disks.
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Any hopes of having this it legal . . . (Score:3, Insightful)
Are we there yet? (Score:4, Insightful)
It seems to me that a really big reason why neither Blu-Ray nor HD-DVD are likely to catch on is the simple fact that sneakernet in general is going the way of the buggy whip.
Nor is it that regular DVDs are “good enough,” as some have suggested, but rather that we’re already moving beyond the station wagon filled with tapes, to simple high-bandwidth networks.
It won’t be Blu-Ray that kills HD-DVD, or vice-versa, or even regular DVDs. It’ll be YouTube, iTunes, Bittorrent, and garden variety video-on-demand from your local telco monopoly. Sure, there’re plenty of shortcomings with all of those today, from quality to DRM to “ownership” to the time it takes to acquire a movie. But neither Blu-Ray nor HD-DVD intrinsically offer anything better over the online equivalents for those with bandwidth.
Cheers,
b&
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The funny thing is... (Score:2)
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The only way to win is not to play (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm backing whoever defeats DRM (Score:3, Interesting)
irrelevant... (Score:2)
Everything else aside, I realized I don't buy DVDs to watch them again. How many times can you watch one thing? I buy stuff when I like it enough that I want to hand to other people I think should watch it. And on occasion to kind of show support for something like a show that was cancelled.. but that's not that common. 99%
Frankly, I hope they both die. (Score:2)
While I'm dreaming, maybe Microsoft will adopt the Linux kernel and open source its next OS as well.
Weaker DRM in HD-DVD (Score:4, Interesting)
As for the rumor posited above in another post that Microsoft paid a combined $150M to these two studios to induce a switch, the answer is obvious. Microsoft sells an HD-DVD player add-on for XBox 360, and likely hopes to see game titles released in the future utilizing it. It has totally thrown in with the (worse) HD-DVD system, and can't change horses now since Sony owns BluRay. Microsoft has a huge stake in seeing HD-DVD win.
Adobe went with Blu-Ray (Score:2)
Adobe went with Blu-Ray as the only high definition recordable disk supported by their Adobe® Premiere® Pro CS3 editing suite. You can see the list of what works here [adobe.com].
This is big as Paramount is the biggest studio (Score:5, Informative)
January 1-August 19, 2007
Overall Gross: $6.585 billion
Rank Distributor Market
Share Total
Gross* Movies
Tracked 2007
Movies**
1 Paramount 18.1% $1,189.5 15 11
2 Warner Bros. 14.8% $974.8 23 13
3 Buena Vista 14.1% $930.6 16 8
4 Sony / Columbia 14.0% $924.6 19 16
5 Universal 11.3% $745.0 13 11
6 20th Century Fox 10.9% $719.9 17 9
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/studio/ [boxofficemojo.com]
The Real Winner is Neither BluRay or HD-DVD (Score:4, Insightful)
These competing standards (that's an oxymoron if I've ever heard one) are both losers. When I go buy movies, I still buy DVDs (despite having an HD TV for 3+ years). Know why? Because it plays in my player.
Eventually, a common player will be affordable for both HD and Blu. At that point, do you know who will win my business? That's right... Netflix. With the industry proving to me that ownership is dumb... I've gone from buying 3-5 DVDs a month to 1 every three months. When I get an upgraded player, I don't expect that there will ever be a movie that I'll want to own.
Am I wrong, or has the format "war" done nothing but alienated consumers and shown that companies are too egotistical to work together to create standards that are actually beneficial to the end users... and for that, I trust them as far as I can throw them.
what does Microsoft "BoB" have to do with this (Score:3, Informative)
So, what does Microsoft "BoB" have to do with this? Is there any wonder why Katzenberg is committing to back the HD DVD format of a very wealthy financial partner? HD-DVD is as much Microsofts format as it is Toshiba's IMO.
LoB
Sony pictures is a competitor (Score:3, Interesting)
This is how Sony lost to VHS. All the vcr makers viewed them as competitors so they supported VHS. Same with IBM and OS/2 vs WIndows. IBM is a mean monopoly so support the underdog which is windows.
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Re:The End of this Format War? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:The End of this Format War? (Score:4, Insightful)
Since both HD-DVD and Blueray streams have maximum bitrates of 18Mbps (nearly twice DVD's 1X spec), HD-DVD's 15GB is already (though barely) sufficient to store a 2h movie at the maximum allowed bitrate. From what I read though, it seems most HD movies (both HD-DVD and Blueray) are encoded at rates in the area of 5-6Mbps so there should be plenty of space left for extras even on HD-DVD - at current typical rates, HD-DVD would be good for 5-7 hours, plenty long enough for any of the LotR extended editions. I personally do not care which one wins as long as I can watch stuff in full HD without flipping discs half-way.
HD-DVD's 15GB capacity is sufficient for its primary purpose: cost-efficient HD movie distribution. Worst case, HD-DVD specs do allow for dual-layer discs should some titles (or disc writers) require extra space. For Joe Sixpack (at least those who do not have a PS3), the format war is likely to remain irrelevant until stand-alone players drop below $200. After this point, things could snowball towards HD-DVD - HD-DVD will almost certainly get there first, possibly this year.
No - the Beginning.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Target had announced they were only offering a dedicated Blu-Ray player in store, and Blockbuster was only going to offer Blu-Ray in store.
Now, with Paramount and Dreamworks the equation has changed. Blu-Ray still has really significant exclusives in Fox, Disney, and Sony (Star Wars/Pixar/Spider Man!). But, it will take much longer for Blu-Ray to win, if it can eventually. This means there is actually a war, as opposed to HD-DVD claiming tehre was a war and slowly fading away which is what was happening previous to this announcement.
The rumor [deadlineho...ddaily.com] is that Microsoft paid Paramount $50M, and Dreamworks $100M, to make this switch (until now they had been neutral). Why would Microsoft do this? Pretty simple, if consumers are confused about which format to buy they are more likley just to download HD content from the only provider currently sellign HD content online. That provider is Microsoft...
Bad news basically for consumers interested in HD content, as this will really kill sales for both formats through the year. Consumers want one choice.
What if there was a war, and nobody came... (Score:5, Insightful)
What if there was a war, and nobody came. [frogcircus.org]
The High Def format war seems more like a clown pie fight to me. Neither side is offering me anything that I want.
The technology is so laden with anti-customer "features" that, frankly, I hope the both lose. I think this is a realistic possibility as downloadable HD content becomes commonly available, which you hit on later in your post.
Peter
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Target had announced they were only offering a dedicated Blu-Ray player in store
Well, somebody better tell Target to take this Toshiba HD-DVD player [target.com] off their website.
Previously Blu-Ray sales had been about 2:1 in favor of Blu-Ray, though the whole year (66% to 34%, to be exact). Sony Blu-Ray players in the last few months have actually been outselling Toshiba standalone players, and that's not counting the PS3 numbers.
Well, 47.3% of all statistics are made up on the spot [bbc.co.uk], do you have links which site those figures (at least)?
Bad news basically for consumers interested in HD content, as this will really kill sales for both formats through the year. Consumers want one choice.
Well, a single one format may seem attractive, but the price war will bring in High Def Video at an affordable price more quickly than a single format. I cannot find a good link for it but if I remember correctly, DVD players took years to get to an 'affordable price', and the movies all seemed to be priced
Re:No - the Beginning.... (Score:4, Insightful)
Not Nintendo (Score:5, Informative)
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I'm waiting till the DRM war ends. CSS on regular DVD's is broken. AcidRip, Kalidascope and other programs can load your DVD's on your hard drive so the kids don't break the originals. The HD formats haven't quite gotten there in consumer friendliness yet.
I can rip regular DVD's to put on my kids Zen Video. It may take a few more years, but I'll wait and use regular DVD's in the meantime.
For those of us not following the issue (Score:2)
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I don't think that blu ray has all that much in the way of momentum.
Re:Not quite (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:The End of this Format War? (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=273
ht
http://www.insert25.com/playst
htt
I could go on, but I don't need to. It says more that http://hdtvmagazine.com/ [hdtvmagazine.com] uses the PS3 as their "reference" player for BluRay. So does the fact that http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/ [soundandvisionmag.com] used it as well.
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If those are included as sales then Blu-ray is doing even worse since Sony & Company have been doing the same thing.
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Re:Typical Sony (Score:5, Insightful)
I wouldn't call blu-ray the new betamax just yet, with Blockbuster already announcing they're carrying only blu-ray titles [forbes.com] primarily due to PS3 sales.
But you have a point. Sony doesn't have a great history of making formats that eventually become the standard. Minidisc? DAT? UMD movies [arstechnica.com]? If I was Sony I'd practically give away Blu-ray players just to get them out there, then in a year or two once it becomes a standard re-coop their costs in license fees. Microsoft has been doing this for years with the Xbox and Xbox360 [businessweek.com] but it was necessary to make them a major player in the console wars and at times Xbox has had the most sales [computeran...ogames.com].
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You are talking about consoles and watching movies, however, the battle will not be won there but with stand alones. Right now you can get a HD-DVD stand alone for $299 at Best Buy. The corresponding Blu-Ray player goes for $599 (double the cost). In just two months it will be Christmas season and guess what people will be buying? That's right the cheaper one. The $299 cost is the price point at which consumers jump on these things. That's why there has been a huge increase in
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