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Music Media Your Rights Online

Legal Music Streaming Site Launches In France 161

Posted by kdawson from the trade-sanctions-coming dept.
An anonymous reader writes "The French website Deezer.com has struck a deal with the SACEM (the French equivalent to the RIAA) and is now legally providing Internet users around the world with more than 100,000 full songs, streamed on demand and without restrictions. The site, formerly named Blogmuzik.net, had had to close down last March under pressure from the recording industry."
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Legal Music Streaming Site Launches In France More

Legal Music Streaming Site Launches In France

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  • it's cool i've tried it (Score:4, Informative)

    by wizardforce ( 1005805 ) on Sunday August 26, 2007 @08:41PM (#20367141) Journal
    no more of that 30 second preview nonsense- listen to the song if you like it you add it- no restrictions on the number of songs/artist like finetune either. hmmm guess the RIAA can't do shit about it now can they?

    • Re:it's cool i've tried it (Score:5, Informative)

      by garcia ( 6573 ) on Sunday August 26, 2007 @08:47PM (#20367189)
      no more of that 30 second preview nonsense- listen to the song if you like it you add it- no restrictions on the number of songs/artist like finetune either. hmmm guess the RIAA can't do shit about it now can they?

      I tried a couple of albums at work late last week and then at home on Friday morning. Both connections (work routinely allows for 3MB/s from Apple -- just for reference and I have a 4200/500 DSL connection at home) were laggy with the music frequently pausing during the stream. I felt like I was using RealAudio back in 1999.

      I wasn't impressed at all. My co-workers all use free.napster.com which works much better. YMMV.

      • Re:it's cool i've tried it (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Technician ( 215283 ) on Sunday August 26, 2007 @09:57PM (#20367635)
        with the music frequently pausing during the stream.

        This is the problem with the internet bottleneck. There is lots of complaints that BitTorrent is sucking all the bandwidth. A file downloaded can and often is played many times. Think of the internet meltdown if you switched all the BitTorrent downloaders to 100% streaming instead.

        To fit the bandwidth now requires very high lossy streaming formats or a serious boost in bandwidth.

        Welcome back to the days of Buffering............Buffering...........Buffering ..........Buffering........
        • Multicast would solve many things. Video and Audio streams would benefit a lot.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Lorkki ( 863577 )

            Multicast would solve many things.

            Possibly so, but the bandwidth impact of on-demand streaming isn't among them.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by springbox ( 853816 )
        The quality of Deezer is much better than free.napster.com. Not sure about the skipping; it has worked perfectly fine for me.

        • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

          by OfficeSupplySamurai ( 1130593 )
          The quality is certainly better on Deezer, although it does vary somewhat.

          While they both use MP3 format, Napster uses only 22 kHz mono 32 kbps MP3's. Deezer on the other hand has some at 22 kHz stereo 64 kbps, but also has some at 44.1 kHz stereo 256 kbps. It even has some VBR with 44.1 kHz stereo and about 240 kbps average.

          My guess would be that while Napster standardizes (undoubtedly reencoding from some high quality original), Deezer just gets an MP3 from the artist and streams it, without messing with

      • Re:it's cool i've tried it (Score:5, Informative)

        by anticypher ( 48312 ) <anticypherNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Monday August 27, 2007 @05:02AM (#20369545) Homepage
        The site is hosted in France, where bandwidth is cheap and plentiful. They are supporting the load just fine over here. Getting traffic from New York to Minnesota is the more likely bottleneck rather than France to NY. OTOH, their servers seem to be completely overloaded under the slashdot effect, I think their massive press push has come back to bury them.

        I suspect that since they just scored this licensing agreement after a long legal struggle under new french obligatory licensing laws, they haven't had time to upgrade their servers or get better load offset architecture in place. Paying lawyers who saved their asses probably is a high priority for them.

        I need to clear up the trollish flamebaiting headline, as the SACEM is nothing like the RIAA. They are the only group that collects royalties for authors and songwriters in France, and by law most of the money collected has to be distributed, despite their legendary corruption and incompetence. The SACEM has been forced to provide licensing to anyone who wants it, and I think Deezer was one of the first test cases for internet distribution. By signing a deal with SACEM, Deezer can now play any and all French artists, and any other country's artists who register with SACEM. This doesn't cover performance royalties, which are separate, all the songs on Deezer are performed by the original author. Since the Wu-Tang Clan (who I just saw on the site to use as an example) has registered with SACEM, ODB and MethodMan will get quarterly or yearly royalty checks directly from SACEM. Bands covering other author's songs can't be played under this agreement, at least according to the French press covering this.

        It remains to be seen if Deezer can make enough to cover the royalties they've negotiated with SACEM. They were really over a legal barrel and if they hadn't signed they risked prison time for piracy. They could be a dotbomb2.0 fizzle, since they haven't dropped all the extraneous vowels from their name.

        the AC

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Llian ( 615902 )
      Its a lovely idea. So lovely they decided it's too good to be allowed decent sound quality. Its no wonder they have the agreement allowing the tracks to be free, they couldn't pay people to listen to this crap quality.

      • I for one (Score:1, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward
        welcome our french music-streaming overlords.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by skeeto ( 1138903 )
      Except it requires Flash to use it. Looks like you can't access this music using only free software. :-(

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by wizardforce ( 1005805 )
        pandora? flash. finetune? flash. what online music station that you know of doesnt use flash? for that matter, how many websites are there that you can't really use without flash? it would be nice if websites were a bit more open-source friendly but for now either we put up with it or advance our own flash replacement.

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by skeeto ( 1138903 )
          Radio Paradise [radioparadise.com] is an internet radio station that works well with free software. I listen/streamrip using VLC [videolan.org]. The only thing I don't like is the lack of an Ogg Vorbis stream (or some other free codec) :-P.

          • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

            by TheRaven64 ( 641858 )
            I'll second (uh, third now, I guess) the recommendation of RP. I rarely hear music I don't like on it, and I've bought a couple of albums recently after hearing tracks played on it. A very nice mix of stuff.

        • Re:it's cool i've tried it (Score:4, Informative)

          by thc69 ( 98798 ) on Sunday August 26, 2007 @09:58PM (#20367637) Homepage Journal
          SomaFM [somafm.com] provides nice streams in various formats that can be played by free software. Lately I've taken to listening on my phone while on the road. If only I could make my phone's media player not timeout every 5 minutes, I could probably cancel my satellite radio subscription...

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by dodobh ( 65811 )
          http://schizoid.in/ [schizoid.in] is one of those. A friend runs it.
    • The selection is skewed in a way I can't figure out. It is lacking a lot of current popular music. However, I am not sure that is a bad thing... :) But it is also lacking some older stuff. Lets hope it grows.
      • I noticed an option for uploading MP3s. I didn't try it, though. Maybe I'll transcode some of my favorite module-format songs.
  • Merci pour les emissions gratuits, mes amis!

    Information and music just wants to be free.

    • Re: (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Information and music don't want anything since they aren't alive.. You are the one that wants information and music for free. Just change your sig for the sake of honesty. Maybe.. I'm a freeloader - I want information and music for free!
    • Merci pour les emissions gratuits, mes amis!

      Je suis fier d'être le premier à déclarer bienvenue à nos nouveaux legal streaming suzerains Français!

      Ok, it could use some work ... ;-)
    • "émissions gratuites", methinks.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by nwbvt ( 768631 )
      Free legal music streaming sites have been for years here in the states, people just don't pay attention to them because they prefer to download songs from services that are somewhat less legal and they go out of business.

  • But...this doesn't make sense! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Sunburnt ( 890890 ) * on Sunday August 26, 2007 @08:51PM (#20367209)

    Are these the same innovation-stifling, reactionary French I keep seeing on Fox News and in the business press?

    I mean, free music? That REEKS of socialism. I, for one, am enough of a proud American to do whatever the music lobbyists of this greatest country in the world demands of me.

    • The innovation stifling french were the ones who brought modern government method of the republic to the world, starting around with ideas of the likes of voltaire, rousseau and contemporaries. and united states of america, the first country to be founded by those new (and by that time's standards probably very socialist in your understanding) and popular ideals. i bet you would call them 'socialist' and demean them, gratifying the king if you were to live at that era.

      • i bet you would call them 'socialist' and demean them, gratifying the king if you were to live at that era.

        And I bet you could use a little more ability to detect sarcasm. I was ragging on Fox, the WSJ editorial page (same thing now, I suppose) and their eager consumers, not the French.

        • well, in /. i saw so many of that kind that my sarcasm scale went off, went rather skeptic excuse me.

  • What? (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 26, 2007 @08:51PM (#20367215)
    So err does this mean the RIAA has surrendered to uhm France? Doesn't this rip a hole in the time-space continuum or something?
    • Doesn't this rip a hole in the time-space continuum or something?

      Nope, but the fact they are streaming Beatles songs is an indicator they are using the local copyright laws and not going along with international copyright law which would block Beatles songs until they were officially released for internet distribution.

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Sunday August 26, 2007 @08:59PM (#20367253)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • The only thing Pandora asked of me to "prove" I'm in the US is a zip code. So I gave them one. I'm not in the US and I'm still using it with no problems.

      • Re: (Score:1, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Dear Pandora Visitor,

        We are deeply, deeply sorry to say that due to licensing constraints, we can no longer allow access to Pandora for most listeners located outside of the U.S. We will continue to work diligently to realize the vision of a truly global Pandora, but for the time being we are required to restrict its use. We are very sad to have to do this, but there is no other alternative.

        We believe that you are in Canada (your IP address appears to be XX.XXX.XXX.XXX). If you believe we have made a mistak

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by kalaf ( 963208 )
        I did the same, and they sent an email a few months back saying they knew I wasn't in the US and they were being pressured to cut off access from certain countries by a set date. Pandora stopped working on that date.

        It's really sad for the RIAA, since Pandora was the only way they could bleed any money from me (from Pandora's pocket, of course). I thought about finding a proxy server to bypass their filters, but decided that if the music industry was going to be that obtuse about people giving them money
    • From what is said in the French press and on French news websites, Deezer's music catalog is far from being 100% legal. They have a few agreements, but for most of the songs they have at best *contacted* the corresponding recording company.

      They have a temporary agreement with the SACEM [wikipedia.org], till December 2007, with the SACEM having the ability to make it stop even sooner if they want. What makes me think this thing won't last, is the fact their agreement is based on the promise that their service is the first

  • 32kbps MP3 (Score:4, Informative)

    by Mostly a lurker ( 634878 ) on Sunday August 26, 2007 @09:02PM (#20367281)
    While I am not one of those people who claims to be able to tell the difference between 192kbps and 256kbps MP3s, a sampling rate of 32kbps is obviously degraded even to my aging ears.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by rob1980 ( 941751 )
      I noticed this too, but as long as the service is free I don't mind. Maybe at some point they'll let me pay a few bucks a month to listen to a higher-quality stream.
    • It seems far better than what my laptop speakers can produce, it also seems "good enough" for ear buds plugged into the laptop. I understand your concern, I rip at 256K with the hope of eventually playing through a home stereo system, but for casual access 32K seems just fine.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by McWilde ( 643703 )
      I didn't have my ears sand-blasted with 32kbps audio... I checked their "upload your own music" link yesterday. They advise you to send 192kbps or better. I guess they just stream what has been uploaded without any re-encoding.

  • Sweet mama ! it really works well (Score:4, Informative)

    by unity100 ( 970058 ) on Sunday August 26, 2007 @09:09PM (#20367315) Homepage Journal
    I get in, i type in "smokie" and voila, 14 songs pop up, groovy too. i click, and it plays, and it plays well, and it doesnt even require one single bit of anything - it has its own player in the site and plays well - actually at the same time with winamp playing some other thing.

    its fast also.

    • and it doesnt even require one single bit of anything

      Well, aside from a full webbrowser with a modern version of flash and enough resources to pull off audio decoding at the same time. Yeah, doesn't sound like much, but kind of rules out streaming this from any kind of embeded device (i.e nintendo ds with homebrew, a cellphone, pda, etc.)

      If I'm at my desktop I might as well just listen to all the music I have stored on it. I suppose this could be useful for using other peoples machines or maybe laptops wher

      • sometimes you vaguely remember a song you dont have and need to find it. or test out some pieces before buying them from somewhere. this thing will work great for it.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by larry bagina ( 561269 )
        I just used it on my 400Mhz arm phone with opera. It works as well as my core 2 duo/firefox desktop machine.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by shmlco ( 594907 )
        Since you can use this to listen to the entire song, maybe the torrent-types could use it instead of... naw. What am I thinking?

        (Still, another torrent-rationalization bites the dust.)
        • Stream low quality or download and have a high bitrate copy? Yeah, that's going to keep me from downloading.

          My library is half downloaded half iTunes.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by shmlco ( 594907 )
            I probably don't have to say this, but one of the rationalizations torrent-types use is that the 30-second clips on iTunes or other sales sites won't let them listen to the entire song. As such, they're "forced" to download the entire thing to find out.

            And of course, once they've decided they like it they'll buy a legitimate copy.

            With this service, however, that excuse disappears. (Not like they can't hear the whole thing at a friends, on TV or radio, or in a music store, but I digress.)

            But like I said, it'

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by thc69 ( 98798 )
              Here's the thing about people who are, as you say, ripping off music: They're also getting excited about music and buying more than they were going to buy if they were doing other things with their time.

              That's an observation I've made of my own past behavior, and it correlates well with the sales and piracy statistics released by the RIAA. First they report piracy is at a high, then they report sales have reached a high. Later, they report piracy is down, and after that, sales follow.

              I never spent more mone
              • I'm guilty of that. As I said in my post above, half my library is purchased (iTMS) songs. Songs I had torrented first and liked. I enjoy one album from an artist and I go a little crazy with the buy album button. I also spent $100 all in one go buying all the Trek movies.

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by shmlco ( 594907 )
                "They're also getting excited about music andbuying more than they were going to buy if they were doing other things with their time."

                Spare me the party line, please. For every person who's "excited" about music there's ten who could care less as long as they have the most popular background music. I know too many students who download and who use the money they could have spent on music on more beer and clothes.

                • Re: (Score:2)

                  by thc69 ( 98798 )
                  I don't know about any "party line". In the two years I've been saying it, I haven't seen the same observation from anybody else until a couple months ago when someone had something similar to say.

                  If you don't think it's true, how do you explain sales following piracy, as reported by the RIAA? They, of course, never made the connection, but I noticed that each time they issued a press release about piracy levels they followed in a couple months with a press release about sales that went in the same directio

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Aladrin ( 926209 )
      Wow, it does. I heard about this site the other day, but I somehow missed the fact that they were streaming ALL music to you. I saw the 'upload your mp3' button and thought it was just stuff you'd uploaded, but they'd stream it to you anywhere. It's working quite well for me here on Linux w/ Flash 9.

      About the uploads, though... Are they saying if you upload an album they don't have, they'll share it with others? I really have to question the legality of that... And if -I- upload an album that I've bou

  • Could me more secure... (Score:3, Funny)

    by khendron ( 225184 ) on Sunday August 26, 2007 @09:27PM (#20367439) Homepage
    When you register they go through the motions of applying a secure sign-up process by not activating you until you've clicked the activation link in the email they send you. But with the activation link being deezer.com/confirm.php?email=, why bother?

    Oh, and after you've clicked the link they email you your password in the clear.
  • Looked for a couple of songs using opera, didn't find (not unusual) but could not back out.
    Maybe the content will increase in the future. The songs I was looking for were in french so I thought they might have them.

    I hope this is the start of a trend.
  • Just when I turn to a Cthulhu cult for all my spiritual needs, I find http://www.jamendo.com/ [jamendo.com] and now this! On the same day!

    Phnglui Mglwnafh Cthulhu R'lyeh Wgah Nagl F'htagn!

  • imeem.com (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    You might have missed this, but imeem.com has been offering free streaming of music from Warner Brothers as well as many smaller labels for some time now. It's all advertisign supported and in reality it's more like 'youtube for music' where music gets checked on upload to see if it's licensed and if it's part of the deals they've signed then any user on the site can hear it full length.
  • Period XD

  • SACEM != RIAA (Score:5, Informative)

    by reSonans ( 732669 ) on Sunday August 26, 2007 @10:05PM (#20367691) Homepage
    SACEM is the French performing rights organization, equivalent to either ASCAP or BMI in the US, or SOCAN in Canada. They're not a lobby group comprised of commercial record labels. They collect royalties from broadcasts and performances on behalf of French musicians.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by QuantumG ( 50515 )
      Whatever, they're all standover men.

    • Re:SACEM != RIAA (Score:5, Informative)

      by shark72 ( 702619 ) on Sunday August 26, 2007 @11:47PM (#20368283)

      "SACEM is the French performing rights organization, equivalent to either ASCAP or BMI in the US, or SOCAN in Canada. They're not a lobby group comprised of commercial record labels. They collect royalties from broadcasts and performances on behalf of French musicians."

      This bears amplification.

      SACEM, ASCAP/BMI, SOCAN, etc.: performing rights organizations which represent artists, composers and lyricists. THE GOOD GUYS.

      The French equivalent of the RIAA is the IFPI. The RIAA and the IFPI represent the recording industry. THE BAD GUYS.

      Performing rights organizations represent a potential revenue stream for artists, composers and lyricists that the record companies generally don't see and can't touch. You know how we all want the record companies to go away but for artists to be compensated, in a way which doesn't require us to pay for the music? Performing rights organizations are the way that can happen. The summary's statement that SACEM is the equivalent of the RIAA was dangerously misleading.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by loopkin ( 267769 )
        No, no, the French equivalent of the RIAA is the SNEP (Syndicat national de l'édition phonographique [disqueenfrance.com]), whose president is Pascal Nègre, who happens to be also president of Universal Music France. This guy is the French "pope" of the old style business model (that is: press CDs, send "pirates" to jail, rip off artists as much as possible, sell junk, ...).

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by anticypher ( 48312 )
        All my information here comes from working peripherally around DG Competition, the European Commission's directorate that oversees all things to do with "free markets", monopolies, and the like. I also know a lot of francophone musicians.

        SACEM ... THE GOOD GUYS

        Hardly.

        The really bad.

        SACEM was created under the Vichy regime in France in 1941, and headed up by a group of six wealthy supporters and close friends of some of the ministers of the Vichy government. I've almost Godwined this thread at this point, so

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Renaud ( 6194 )
      on behalf of French musicians.

      Well, not only. Any music performed or broadcast in France gets their share. SACEM redistributes those royalties to their counterparts abroad (like BMI/ASCAP)
    • Good thing I read this. I was about to comment there was a typo, I glanced over the article too fast. I thought they were refering to SECAM
  • wowser. At first i thought this was a bleh. idea. But so far i've listened to a lotta music i've been intending to for ages just sitting here at work. legally for a change too. Internet radio is ok. but after 3 songs i generally through my headphones down in anger as they put something crap on:( The library so far is impressive (IMO)

  • imeem.com Has Been Doing This In The US For A Whil (Score:3, Informative)

    by illectro ( 697914 ) on Sunday August 26, 2007 @10:11PM (#20367731)
    You might have missed this imeem.com [imeem.com] has been doing this for a while, as well as the usual selection of indie labels the massive news was that Warner Brothers music has basicly given them streaming rights to their catalog which includes hundreds of mainstream artists. All advertising supported and free (well I guess you have to sign up for an account)
  • I want all this stuff back online. I want the guitar tabs
    and all the stuff that the RIAA has bullied people about for years
    with no consideration of fair use.

    I could give a crap about little pussy agreements with governments.
    Fair use is dead and thats killing the internet

  • Damn Universal.... (Score:3, Informative)

    by meuhlavache ( 1101089 ) on Sunday August 26, 2007 @10:16PM (#20367757) Homepage
    Thanks to Universal to order Deezer.com to stop stream their content due to a lack of communication between them. For more information (in french): http://www.freenews.fr/nat/5144-presse-deezer-com- universal-acte-3.html [freenews.fr] The little history is Neuf Cegetel, french ISP, sign a contract with Universal allow their subscribers to download and listen DRM protected music. Deezer.com was associated with Free.fr, another ISP (one of the most important in France), after a strategic "Joke" in press by Free. Now Deezer get the feedback of Free.fr actions..... Please Universal: let us listen free music! I hope my english is not that bad! =)
  • Colour me unimpressed. First track, and it pauses every 30 seconds for 2-3 seconds (I have 24mb/s of downstream), and the interface is kinda sucky. Still, on the political front, great news.
  • This would've been really cool had it come out about 5 years ago, but today, with all the music videos available on YouTube [youtube.com], who wants to stream the music when you can get the whole music video? Still, I suppose the library might be a little greater, as you can get more than just some of the major, popular songs that music videos are made for,... But still,...

  • "The French website Deezer.com has struck a deal with the SACEM (the French equivalent to the RIAA) and is now legally providing Internet users around the world with more than 100,000 full songs, streamed on demand and without restrictions. The site, formerly named Blogmuzik.net, had had to close down last March under pressure from the recording industry."

    Ummm... let me be the first to point out that SACEM is NOT the French equivalent of the RIAA... at least not if they are allowing "more than 100,000 full songs, streamed on demand and without restrictions."

    But maybe the RIAA will take a lesson from this and come to their senses and convince their member companies (themselves) to come up with and/or support more viable Internet distribution methods as a business model instead of their current "Sue 'em all and then some more people for good measure" attit

  • Imagine if this was all one big devious plot to collect IP addresses, etc., to monitor more closely in the future...

    Nah, the RIAA wouldn't be that devious, would it?

  • Sounds fishy (Score:4, Interesting)

    by David Off ( 101038 ) on Monday August 27, 2007 @02:30AM (#20368915) Homepage
    SACEM (Société des Auteurs, Compositeurs et Editeurs de Musiques) have been working with the RIAA to shut down allofmp3.com in Russia [lemonde.fr]. SACEM's boss claimed that the Russian's only had rights to exploit the RAO catalogue on Russian territory. Presumably SACEM only has rights to exploit their member's catalogue and then probably only on French soil. According to another article [lemonde.fr] the agreement will be signed in the next few days. As France is a part of the WTO etc. I assume the RIAA will take Deezer/SACEM to court if the agreement exceeds their rights.
  • SACEM is NOT the french equivalent to the RIAA !

    It is the equivalent of the US-based BMI and ASCAP, and that makes a big difference : SACEM manages the rights of songwriters / composers / publishers, NOT the rights on actual recordings.

    This means that what Deezer.com did is a first, necessary but not sufficient step, and at this point they would merely have the right to have someone perform those songs again and re-record them, then stream the result!

    What they have yet to do, is to get a deal for the actual
  • ESCAM instead of SACEM?
  • The site worked great a not long ago, but now seems to be loading more slowly. I guess the popularity of this service may make it near unusable if they don't work out their bandwidth issues.

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