HMV Canada Cuts Music CD Prices 271
umStefa notes a CBC story reporting that the largest music retailer in Canada, HMV, has slashed prices on CDs and is attributing the move to demand by customers for lower prices. The back catalog of popular artists will see price cuts of up to 33%; the cuts average 20% across the board. The Canadian version of the RIAA is spinning the news as being a direct result of music piracy.
Right... (Score:5, Insightful)
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higher retail, win win for the companies. Too bad the party is over now, bitches !!!!!
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It is really funny to read about a media outlet slashing prices to counter piracy after so many years of media outlets using piracy as an excuse for inflating prices.
Where many movies can be had for about $20, it is pretty hard to accept so many audio CDs being listed around $25. Knocking 33% off these only brings them back down to a level that seems more natural - though still on the high side.
Right now, music outlets have to
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yet.. people still gobble up the slop
perhaps them wanting lower prices is the final end-result of the music industry trying to kill artist creativity and control the albums from initial casting to shelf.
And indy music is starting to gain serious traction.. I wonder why.
The music we
Re:Right... (Score:5, Insightful)
You know - I'm living in Canada, never used p2p or anything like that to download music...don't consider myself a pirate at all. Happy to pay for the materials I want. Upon hearing HMV is slashing prices - I rejoice and head to the website.
The White Album is still forty-five freakin' dollars!
Piracy causes lower prices then, does it? I guess I just haven't been doing my part.
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Re:Right... (Score:5, Insightful)
If only this were true. Once upon a time HMV was a music store that screwed people. Then people stopped buying music there so they started selling DVDs. Just last month they added video games to the mix. I was in an HMV last month, perhaps 25% of the shelf space was for music.
This cut isn't because HMV has figured out what they were doing wrong, its because they make all their money off of DVDs and games and the few CDs that are left in the store are stealing valuable shelf space. Despite the fact they continue to market themselves as a music store, I think its just a matter of time before the music is gone.
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The White Album is still forty-five freakin' dollars!
What's your problem? You don't want John Lennon to have to get a day job, do you? He'll have to stop writing songs!
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hawk
Re:Right... (Score:5, Interesting)
This is the problem the recording industry has got: The 'n'th pressing of some old album onto a new media ought to be cheaper than the original, as they haven't had to re-do anything, other than maybe shrink the album cover to fit a CD. What is the cover of The White Album anyway [googles] Hmmmm. OK. Can anyone guess [wikipedia.org]?
So they accuse us of pirateering, and we accuse them of profiteering! It's a racket and they know it is. The whole screaming and shouting about pirate downloads et al is just a smoke screen in the hope we don't realise they've been shafting us for years!
As has often been said, they need to wake up and smell the coffee! Cheaper CDs in the shops - say £5 a CD - would likely mean people buying 3 CDs. Pile 'em high and sell 'em cheap!
Or wander over to sellaband [sellaband.com] where you can help unsigned artists get into a top studio by pre-buying their next CD for $10 (10 US Dollars), and you get a (small) cut of sales, Ad revenue, and downloads. Might not amount to much, but if they're as good as you think they are, who knows!
Pop into my Sellaband Shop [sellaband.com] for some free downloads right now, or buy tracks for 50 US cents for DRM free quality mp3s.
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I still don't get why albums that are that old cost so much. The other day I tried to buy one from 1969. It was 28.99$ CND. No special booklet or anything. Just a plain old album in its cheap plastic case. Why the insane price? Obviously the artist, label, distributor and co. made (or failed to made) profit with this album. It's almost 40 years later now so I doubt you're finally gonna break even or something.
And to think you can buy an old DVD for 9
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Well, that, or the other way around; monopolies will charge what the market will bear. When you have a legal monopoly you maximizie revenue by setting the price at a point where a lot of consumers will not be able to afford the product (ie, 45 dollars).
As piracy is the only actual competition, it is the only thing holding prices back. Without it, you could expect the same White Album to be $60. Or $100. With working mandatory DRM and/or per play charges, you could
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So why don't you download it, just like I did, especially that it's legal to do so in Canada?
I feel compelled to reply to this; while I share the sentiment of many on this board that just because something is illegal, that doesn't mean it's wrong - I also believe the reverse. Just because something is legal, that doesn't make it right.
It is legal to download in Canada right now (I'm sure things are in the works to change that), but I don't think I'm entitled to download the album without paying for it. These are the fruits of the labour of others; made commercially for the purpose of profit
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More Insightful Article on Why HMV's Doing This (Score:5, Interesting)
This article from the Globe and Mail [theglobeandmail.com] provides some more interesting insight into why they are doing this.
However it raises more questions. Like if younger people are buying more old Pink Floyd albums (errr... CDs), why is HMV charging $10 dollars more than newer CDs? After 30 years on the market you would think that 'Dark Side of the Moon' or the 'Led Zepplin' CDs had made their money and maybe could be reduced to the price of say, a CD produced in 2007?
And for those who don't know, HMV is the Canadian equivalent of, for example, the chain of Virgin record stores. In fact, HMV recently took over the Virgin location on the corner of Burrard and Robson in downtown Vancouver.
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You just answered your own question there. If people will pay it, they'll charge it.
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Re:Right... (Score:5, Informative)
Cheaper music? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Cheaper music? (Score:5, Funny)
Crazy Canada (Score:5, Funny)
Holy shit. In Canada, all consumers have to do is demand lower prices and they get them??
Re:Crazy Canada (Score:4, Funny)
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Re:Crazy Canada (Score:4, Insightful)
Prices should have come down a long time ago. These are not the days of the $0.65 Canadian dollar anymore.
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Housing prices are that way. The US has a huge glut of overpriced homes on the market, priced under the false assumption that the bubble had some validity. So do prices go back down to normal levels? Nope. Instead, a huge inventory [insidebayarea.com] of homes sit for months and months. Nobody wants to relinquish their phony inflation "equity."
Only fair (Score:5, Insightful)
No Piracy (Score:5, Informative)
They can spin it however they want, but it's legal for Canadians to download music. It's part of the reason behind the tarifs we pay on storage media (as much as $25 on an iPod, for example). I'm paying for my right to download music, thank you. Now be sure to give my money to the artists and not line your own damn pockets.
Re:No Piracy (Score:5, Informative)
(Unfortunately, the $ millions overpaid by Canadians [michaelgeist.ca] on the blank media levy will apparently not be refunded to consumers.)
What unbridled optimism, (Score:3, Insightful)
OF COURSE THE ARTISTS GET NOTHING!
Lets review some definitions:
Slut: someone who does something for the love of it. (see also: Amateur [and its spelled right!])
Whore: someone who does something strictly for money.
Pimp: someone who tries to make whores into sluts by removing the profit motive. (see also: RIAA)
John: someone who pays through the nose for everything.
(The f
Re:What unbridled optimism, (Score:5, Funny)
But "it's" isn't.
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CD Prices and Slothful Government (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, from TFA:
"A succession of Canadian governments have sat on their hands and done nothing," he said.
Excellent. That's the best kind of government. The type that doesn't make laws just to please some industry group.
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Have to admit, that's one of the benefits of a minotity government - the politicians are too busy playing petty politics between themselves that they can't really do anything else. I'm sure had there been a majority government (doesn't matter *which* majority), it would've caved "to protect Ca
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Yesterday, I bought Spider-Man II and another movie I'd been wanting on DVD... for $5 apiece at my grocery store.
Yet music CDs of popular music even just a few years ago isn't priced as competitively for some reason. And CDs are cheaper to make.
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Re:CD Prices and Slothful Government (Score:5, Insightful)
The fact that a CD and a DVD cost the same amount, even though the production costs are orders-of-magnitude different, means that:
(1) A CD album sells far fewer copies than a DVD of a movie does. Thus, the price needs to be higher to recoup costs; or
(2) The price we pay is not really correlated to the production cost. In particular, the claims that the cost of a CD is required to pay all the people involved in the production of the work is greatly exaggerated.
We all know that a merchant feels no particular desire to sell something at a lower cost if people are buying it at a higher cost. In that sense, the cost of goods is never correlated to the production cost, but only based upon the price the market is willing to bear.
On the other hand, in any sector of the economy where there is competition the price of a good on the free market will be driven down closer to the production cost, because one company will always be willing to undercut another company, right up until the point where they can no longer pay for production (and staff, and reasonable return-on-investment, etc.). However, where there is no competition, the price can be inflated arbitrarily high above the production cost.
Again, it's pretty obvious, but I'll say it anyways: The high price of CDs and DVDs is because the market is dominated by a monopoly, devoid of competition.
direct result of music piracy. (Score:5, Interesting)
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Well, this shows SOMEBODY gets it (Score:3, Insightful)
It's quite sad that this has to be such a stunning revelation, actually.
Capitalism (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: "More like Canada" (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, I would never want to change the poverty and disastrous education system, the lack of health insurance for most people, the broken two-party political system, the prison system with highest rate of incarceration in the world, military profiteering and the $34 TRILLION debt load...
But it sure would be great if CDs cost less in the USA.
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Hey, now, let's be fair, the number of Americans without health insurance is currently around 47 million, or 16% of the total population (though this doesn't account for this with insurance who are denied coverage). Hardly "most people".
I point this out only because a useful dialog about things like healthcare reform can't begin if people persist in exaggerating or outright lying in order to support their position (and that applies to either side).
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Having said that, HMV in the UK almost always seems to be having some sale or other that cuts huge amounts off a variety of CDs, and that's generally one of the few times I'll ever buy it (or some less mainstream album in Fopp that's £15+ as an import in HMV and £6 in Fopp).
Good to see that the Canadians have the sense that people aren't willing to pay over
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I'm older, and I have to take some exception to this. There are a number of good bands today who, being calendarically challenged, weren't able to perform in the 60's. And yet, they are able to sell their music for a decent price. An example: Metric's [wikipedia.org] CDs are [or were - are they cheaper now?] priced at $10.00 CDN at HMV. Very popular, relatively new, band.
I welcome the changes to HMV's pricing and will be at the mall this weekend to see what
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Or am I just living in cloud cuckoo land and the police are about to kick my door down and confiscate my PC and MP3 player.
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It's a result of (Score:2)
Rising Dollar (Score:5, Insightful)
Its just following other forms of Entertainment (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Its just following other forms of Entertainment (Score:4, Informative)
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Somewhere in Bentonville... Always lower prices (Score:5, Interesting)
Somewhere in Bentonville, Arkansas, a Wal-Mart executive is deciding how to respond to this pricing move. When the decision is made, calls will go out to record companies, telling them what Wal-Mart is willing to pay. That's what really scares the RIAA.
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I really think Walmart would already have twisted their arm if they could. They've done it to everyone else.
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Not around here they don't. The amount of floor space they have for music in the two here is tiny. I stopped at one to pick up a CD for listening to on a road trip recently, and they had next to nothing. One aisle for old releases, and 1/2 an aisle for new releases. The vast majority of what I presume used to be the music space is now taken up with video games and DVDs.
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They're also pricey enough that I never buy anything there.
Lower prices reflect true costs (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, I call shenanigans on that. When is the last time you saw any marketing for any of the older groups? The only time they do anything is to pump up sales of re-masters or collections.
If they lowered the price to USD$8-10 a CD, I'd consider buying some of my old favorite groups. But for now, I have my XM and a steady supply of music that's free of bullshit-interruptions and asshat DJs. Spend USD$18 for a CD? No way, not even for a group I truly enjoy. That's pure and utter BS.
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Someone in another thread complained about the White Album being $45 - how about £31 from HMV UK [hmv.co.uk] for both the anniversary edition and the normal edition? That's around US$60 at the moment!
Bob Marley [hmv.co.uk] is a bit more reasonable with some albums at £8 each (~US$16) but they're the cheap ones. U2 [hmv.co.uk] are quite similar, with most albums around the £7 mark (if they're on special offer) but some from the 80s and 90s still up at £12 (well over US$20)
Prices were unreasonable (Score:5, Insightful)
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It's about time! (Score:2)
Movie vs CD (Score:3, Insightful)
When you buy a big name CD I don't think your paying for the CD/music, you're reimbursing the studio for all the money it spent on marketing so you could hear it on the radio, MTV, etc.
A lot of people complain and say they listen to indy artist, and while I can appreciate a good song. How do you find these artist? Everyone know's Gwen Stephanie, and whoever is on the top billboards, and they are there more or less because of the amount of money that was dumped into marketing.
Re:Movie vs CD (Score:4, Interesting)
Pitchfork Media [pitchforkmedia.com] might be of use as well, a music review website that covers alot of indie CDs. I trust it somewhat less than I do Jeph, but it can at least expose you to music(good or bad). Their reviews can be
It's a grassroots sort of marketing style for sure. One has to actually go out and LOOK for the material in order to learn about it. But the resources are out there, if you are willing to put a very mild amount of time into it. Gwen Stephanie? I wouldn't cross the street to get her entire discography for free. Not even if it was in FLAC or high quality ogg vorbis files!(gasp)
Personally, I've been happier reading QC and hearing about Broken Social Scene or The Postal Service or Battles or The Fiery Furnaces or or or... Well, you get the idea. I'd never heard of these bands until I started reading QC, and now the "Indie" folder on my computer has works from many dozens of artists.
If you want some music suggestions send me a msg, I'll fire off the names of some favoured bands that you can check out. >=}
CD Baby, the Podsafe Music Network, GarageBand... (Score:2)
I haven't needed to buy packaged crap (what I also call "trans-fat" or "hydrogenated" music,) for years.
You could also listen to some music podcasts (look in the iTunes music store.)
You can do yourself and the artists some good.
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Movie Music
box office takings Store sells
rentals Radio (movies get money by selling to blockbuster, music pays to be put on the air)
TV rights Movies, Radio, anytime a song is played in another medium they get royalties.
So pretty much the same thing.
As long time shopper @ HMV Canada (Score:2)
Its also the sign of a struggling retalier for sa
A slightly different take (Score:2, Informative)
In any case the article seems a bit more unbiased than the CBC/CRIA fud.
Re:A slightly different take (Score:5, Informative)
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Not really bothered (Score:2)
Sure, downloads are cheaper but with the CD I can convert the songs into the format I want at the bit-rate I want, not the format and the bit-rate that Napster / iTunes / Tesco decides it should be at.
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It's all relative. For Americans and Canadians, £10 is $20 US and about that much Canadian. As an American I can tell you that that price for a single CD is outrageous and similar pricing was what drove Tower Records out of business in most of the USA. Tower could never really get th
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We complain about the cost of everything (Score:2)
It was not as bad in Canada when I lived there. At least we had health care.
Exchange rates? (Score:2)
That and the exchange rate. (Score:2)
People listening to non-RIAA music. (Score:2)
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Hip hop's dead? Nobody told me!
They can (Score:2)
Price changes have two base reasons (Score:2)
1. Supply and demand. These curves tend to meet at the equilibrium, which changes daily and is benefited by competition and technological changes, as well as market needs. Supply goes up, price goes down. Demand goes up, price goes up. We don't pay much for horse-shoers anymore, but it wasn't the result of bootleg horseshoer
useless junk (Score:2)
Yay for piracy! (Score:3, Funny)
Yay for piracy!
Now, we just need to keep downloading torrents and DVDs will get cheaper, too!
*Nothing to do with the lack of demand for crap music, obviously.
Books (Score:2, Insightful)
Almost no one copies them, when you can buy a paperback for a reasonable price, it is not worth your time.
When CD prices and delivery get into the (for me) 3 to 5 dollar range, and the CD includes some nice pretty additional content like artwork, book, lyrics (OMG more possible infringement) poster or something not even thought of yet, no longer worth the trouble to download and record for me.
Price correctly, and piracy goes away. My business
I'm Certain... (Score:2)
Eh? (Score:2)
Um...Maybe it's just my tiny brain not fully digesting the ramifications of this, but by spinning it in such a way, aren't they sending the message that piracy = cheaper music?
Not that this is a bad thing, mind you, but I can't help but think the RIAA (and its international cronies) have been so busy cutting off noses that they've forgotten whose face they're supposed to be spiting.
!Canadian (Score:2)
In other words, this is yet another sleazy tactic by outsiders to "convince" the Canadian government to adjust copyright law in a way that wouldn't benefit the average Canadian.
Assholes.
c.
It IS about piracy (Score:2)
People aren't buying CDs because the cost of them doesn't justify buying them when you can get them just as good online for free.
Drop the price down to $5-10 (cdn) and I'll start buying cds as often as I did before napster.
Really it all boils down to the fact that I can't afford the music I like these days. Free radio sucks (esp. in my area, Peterborough ON.) CDs are too expensive and satellite radio is another monthly fee I don't need.
I won't pay for cable, but I'll "steal"
Does Graham Henderson have his facts right? (Score:2)
Graham Henderson from the CRIA says "Canada has the highest rate of illegal downloading in the world" . That claim seems a bit dubious. I'm not saying it's not possible. But it seems to me that Canadians can copy and download a *lot* of music for themselves without breaking a single law if they go about it properly, as their Copyright Act permits. I don't think the CRIA wants people to know that. So is it possible they're encourag
Actually in Canada downloading music is not piracy (Score:4, Insightful)
But I don't.
I used to be a real record CD hound spending hours combing through the stacks. I used to go to big name concerts regularly. I no longer buy CDs (last I bought was over 10 years ago - some medieval music and some worldbeat) and when we go out it's to listen to small local pub bands, small chamber ensembles or choirs or dance to electronic music DJs. And I'm more likely to play music or sing karaoke than listen to it. A large part of this is just disillusionment with the entire big business music model. Spending a couple of hundred bucks to see Madonna or go to the Opera or listen to a warhorse symphony *again*, doesn't seem to make much sense when there are so many more enjoyable alternative musical experiences.
HMV and the RIAA are full of it (Score:2, Insightful)
Lowering prices to compete with .... themselves. (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't download music; I have ripped CDs I borrowed from the library, which by my reading of our copyright act is legal as church on Sunday - but the bulk of that was out-of-print Jazz albums you can't find in stores anyway.
The real piracy battleground is over the "most popular" pop music that sells a lot of units for a year or so, mostly to people under 30.
Part of the reason I started getting more interested in non-pop genres like Jazz, World, Reggae, electronic was that it was cheaper - even in stores like HMV. I can go in there and get one Avril Lavigne CD for $25 - or pick up Django Reinhart's Jazz, hits by Dean Martin, a Peter Tosh, and an "AfroBeat Collection" for a total of $30. All from the 2/$15 shelf two paces from Avril.
Sorry, Avril...
There's just a LOT of great music out there, and once you stop treating music as a status symbol that proves how up-to-the-minute you are, buying anything new & popular becomes an irrational decision. Wait a few years, and it'll not only be down to the 2/$30 shelf at least, the consensus will be in about how good the artist *really* was under the hype.
However, if HMV drops prices enough, I believe I'll find out what the heck Amy Winehouse is all about this year instead of 2010. One really should encourage moves like this.
Piracy, Schmiracy! (Score:3, Interesting)
Today, the average teenager's similarly limited funds are split between PC games, games for gaming consoles (my son owns a PS2, an XBox360, a WII, and a Nintendo DS), DVDs, movies at the theater, rental DVDs, legal downloads, etc. It's also not a big surprise that the kids brought up on all of those choices have increasingly become a part of Big Music's key demographic.
And yet, Big Music doesn't understand this kind of competition (apparently, some retailers actually do), and can't grasp the simple fact that kids like mine rarely buy music of any kind. That doesn't mean they're stealing it, either, but rather, they buy games and play the radio or the PC in the background. If they buy a song, they'll get the one or two "decent" songs on iTunes, not the whole CD. They have very little first-hand knowledge of the "concept album" as we knew it... it's all random-play on the iPod (Kira) or the Sansa (Sean).
So, not understanding this, and not even really wanting to embrace the fact their very way of existence is being called to question, the one answer from the industry is always "must be the Pirates". I guess that's what they can sell to the stockholders and pretend to be addressing. They don't begin to have any answers for the real problems in their business....
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Rarely does a CD match the Pure Physical Art Value of an LP , or even the technical art value of a DVD (special features, commentaries, documentaries, etc). However with the downloading of an electronic file (mp3) all of the other elements that made the purchase of music an experience,(the art) for all of the senses, not just sound, are lost.
The poster