Music Industry Set To Introduce the "Ringle" 348
mrneutron2003 writes "The RIAA has officially backed a move by the recording industry to reintroduce the CD single. Populated with three songs and a ringtone, this brilliantly clueless idea is to be marketed as a 'ringle,' complete with an even more clueless retail price of $6-7 per CD. Apart from the fact the industry hasn't agreed on how the ringtone is to be redeemed (Sony BMG, the initial proponent of the idea, is the exception here), the pricing puts it way out of line with legitimate digital music downloads." At $7, retailers would enjoy a profit margin they haven't seen since the days of cassette tapes and vinyl.
This Brings to Mind a Question (Score:5, Insightful)
How many times must I buy the same music in order to "legally" hear it on any music-playing device I own? (No, I will not tell you what devices they are, nor what formats they can play.)
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In the past you bought the LP, then a few years later you bought the cassette. Then the CD, then the AAC, then whatever the next big thing is in 10 years time.
If you insisted on buying a digital personal audio player which only plays non-DRM'd music - well, I guess you're going to have to find someone who'll sell you that. Good luck if your tastes include anyone who's signed to a major record label.
Re:This Brings to Mind a Question (Score:5, Funny)
Although we here in the music industry consist of a collection of the world's greatest and most creative geniuses, we cannot with any certainty predict how many music-playing devices will be invented over the course of your lifetime, so we regret that we are unable to give you an exact answer to your question.
We can tell you, however, that due to the exciting pace of technology in this century, you can look forward to rewarding your favorite musicians over and over again by sending us money each time you purchase a new electronic device. It's thanks to your efforts that we are able to give songwriters and musicians a small portion of the profit that their hard work results in.
Thanks for submitting your question via our website, we will keep your ip address on file so that we can compare it to those found on file sharing networks, for your convenience and for the safety of your music.
Sincerely,
The music industry.
Plus the ringtone... (Score:2)
No way... (Score:5, Interesting)
What is the carbon footprint of three songs on a packaged CD versus three songs purchased over the internet? And to bring it into even sharper focus, the CD packaged songs will end up on a player just like the downloads.
Game over, man...
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I worked for one of the major record retailers, way-back-when. The Tokyo outlet was sure that single cassettes would look cheap in their factory packaging (small, one tape to an SKU), so they repackaged each one to match the elongated (double-len
Brilliant!!! (Score:3, Insightful)
lovely quote from TFA (Score:5, Funny)
Uh, right . . .
Thanks for that little gem, which helps prove there's not much danger of that ever happening.
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1990 called... (Score:2)
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Why do you think people "sell" their disks to the used disk stores? Because they're tired of them, and the money offsets the cost of a new disk.
So, since more disks are bought because you're supporting the secondary market, the labels are richer for your purchase.
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Why do you think people "sell" their disks to the used disk stores? Because they're tired of them, and the money offsets the cost of a new disk.
Or, they're out of money to buy weed with, and putting their CDs onto their iPod and then hauling the discs down to the used-record shop is an easy way of getting some cash without having to actually do anything.
... but in my experience that's not really the source of most of the discs in used shops. Most of them come from people who just need the cash for something (whether it's to pay th
Yeah, there are some people who trade CDs, buying them, listening for a while, and then selling them to buy more music
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Which reminds me, I need to think about getting rid of some DVDs before the price bottoms out, so I'll be ready to reestablish my collection in HD.
Three songs or two? (Score:3, Informative)
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Unless you're counting the remix as the same as the main song, which makes sense. They're still separate tracks, though.
Ok, the Reuters article reads three songs (Score:2)
3 singles and a sandwich maybe (Score:2)
At $2-$4 it would be a winner (Score:2)
reminds me of the Scrooge movie (Score:5, Interesting)
Quite appropriate name considering...
I'm opposed to this... (Score:5, Funny)
Retailers? (Score:2)
Given that cost... (Score:5, Funny)
I'll call it a Pringle
Re:Given that cost... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Given that cost... (Score:4, Funny)
I'll call it a Pringle
I propose Shared ring singles
Free with every purchase Shingles [wikipedia.org], share with your friends, there is no cure for Shingles(tm).
{modded down in 3, 2 1...}
here is a business plan! (Score:2)
2. ?????
3. Profit!
I got a ringle on my kitchen table this morning... (Score:2)
... when one of the soggy Cheerios in my bowl bounced out and landed on the table. Later, when I noticed it, I picked it up.
But not before it left a ringle on the table. :-|
3 Songs? (Score:2)
Ringtone Hell (Score:5, Funny)
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2) ask user their telephone number
3) profit
Ringle Haiku! (Score:4, Funny)
If I buy a ringle,
With me will women mingle ?
or will it be an iPod haiku - ( scene: chic sees guy with iPod )
My Gawd,
An iPod,
Must have a big rod.
Re:Ringle Haiku! (Score:5, Funny)
Haikus can be fun!
But sometimes they don't make any sense.
refrigerator
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In English 5-7-5 syllables can make the haiku too long, especially when you use bloated syllables like "sense".
Some basic math (Score:5, Funny)
WTF ARE THESE IDIOTS THINKING??? That I'm going to spend over NINETY THOUSAND DOLLARS to load up my 160gig iPod?
They must be doing some mighty fine crack, because THAT is pure unadulterated BULLSHIT if they think I'm going to spend even 1/2 of one percent of $80,000 loading up my 160gig iPod, and it certainly isn't going to be spend on ringles...
Good god. What a bunch of losers. Left curve of the IQ bell chart. Morons. Mafiosi. Dead enders. Feh.
RS
Realistic Ipod Capacity (Score:2, Interesting)
I imagine the on
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RS
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If you buy a lot of classical or used CDs, encode at a higher bitrate, and maybe throw on a couple TV shows you can run out of space at quite a heavy discount. Besides, lots of people have been collecting music legally for decades. Buy four albums a month for 30 years, and you'll have nearly 1,500 CDs containing perhaps 15,000 songs. Some serious music fans would scream if you tried to restrict them to four albums a month.
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To quote "WarGames"... (Score:2)
Lightman: What's that?
Falken: Futility. That there's a time when you should just give up.
Uh, It's 1982 on the phone.. (Score:4, Funny)
How do these people get jobs? (Score:3, Insightful)
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Audacity and BitPim for me, thanks (Score:3, Interesting)
Cost for the music: Free (raiding old CD collection) or Free to 98 cents (AmieStreet.com)
Cost for the ringtone: Free.
(Expected a "priceless" joke here, didn't you?
My ringaling, your ringaling... (Score:2)
With apologies to Chuck Berry.
Dissenting View - it'll be a success (Score:5, Insightful)
- A household where every family member has a Mac and an iPod. Family members often buy the same song instead of using sharing because it is "too difficult".
- A household where working computers are thrown out on a yearly basis and replaced with new ones because that's "easier".
- A household where computers with sensitive records are just left out on the curb.
Different households, all fairly affluent, all in the NYC area. So while ringles may be stupid to the Slashdot crowd, they'll sell to the people that are even dumber than the record execs.
Re:Dissenting View - it'll be a success (Score:5, Insightful)
My point is, I don't think this behavior makes stupid "stupid" ipso facto. It just means they have more money than you (or me), which might mean they are not so stupid.
Ringles is an STD (Score:2)
Profit margin of 0% (Score:2)
The profit margin on $0 in sales is 0%.
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- Promotion? None. The album is already is legendary
- Production costs? Maybe a nickel.
- Copyright costs? The label owns that
- Anything else? Doubtful.
The pieces finally fit. (Score:2)
Big Music is no longer in the business of making music. That's not news, they've long been in the business of selling music, which just happens to require burning some trash onto CDs. But they're not in that business any more, either. They now intend to make suing people their primary business. At 5000 dollars a song, the profit margins are pretty damn hig
Dear RIAA and friends... (Score:2)
Wikipedia -> Massive success
Youtube -> Massive success
GoogleTunes -> a question of time.
Now unlike video, music doesn't need gigs and gigs of storage space. Several thousand tracks fit easily on a standard drive, and even the most shitty dsl connection can stream it these days. You have at most a year or two before it happens, and when it does you are fucked. Really, just picture yourself directly competing for attention against the worlds biggest advertis
Could be a good deal for some people (Score:2)
Of course there is nothing wrong with adding ring-tunes to the CD, but this won't be enough. People need something that they can hold
You know how it's supposed to work (Score:2)
And hopefully we meet somewhere in the middle. Jungle rules, people, don't be surprised.
Of course it could all be more civilized and honest, but then the industry will lose edge and stop innovating, and consumers will grow even more trusting and dumb in just few short generation.
No one forces people to buy "ringles" for $7 the piece. If they buy it, it's not indu
Have I got this right? (Score:4, Insightful)
Lose market share because customers don't perceive value.
Remove even more value from the product and raise the margin.
Profit !!!!
Who says this business thing is hard!
they should market ringles with pringles (Score:2)
so that after eating the potato chips, you can use the can to amplify your wifi signal, and download the balance of the value of the $7 you spent on their crap, with the added bonus that the base owner gets the riaa lawsuit instead of you
This is Government-Style Logic (Score:5, Insightful)
FTA:
Each ringle is expected to contain three songs -- one hit and maybe one remix and an older track -- and one ringtone, on a CD with a slip-sleeve cover. The idea is that if consumers in the digital age can download any tracks they want individually, why not let them buy singles in the store as well? It also enables stores to get involved in the ringtone phenomenon.
Wow. Only the recording industry and the government can write contradictions like that and not see the logical fallacy.
Apparently, the industry understands that consumers want their tracks individually, and wants consumers to get their individual tracks from retail outlets. So to facilitate this, they package the individual track with 2 other unwanted songs and a ringtone. Then they double the price of downloading the songs individually and force you to drive to the store?!?!
Wow. That logic is shocking. I just have to repeat it to actually believe that some executive thought this up: Consumers want songs individually, so lets package 3 songs together with a ringtone and double the price!
The person who came up with that idea probably makes more money than everyone who reads this post put together. JSDFKGLHADFYGUHQO@W*%ORILU@#WERLJKC!@%$)*
Better make it a bundle (Score:5, Funny)
1. - A self-destructing DVD, which will auto-destruct after a week, or 3 viewings, whichever comes first.
2. - A Blue-Ray DVD player with a slef-destruct mechanism which activates in case the inserted disk is not deemed "genuine" by the SONY servers (broadband connection required).
3. - An additional CD containing only the mandatory rootkit, without which the 3-song + ringtone CD cannot be played.
4. - A Betamax tape, just for the heck of it.
Wake up slashdot (Score:2)
The crappy value is there purely to distract you from the even more menacing facet of this:
So, for Joe Consumer to redeem his ringtone, he pops this CD in his windows computer, and it RUNS A PROGRAM THAT CONNECTS TO THE INTERNET to obtain the ringtone. It does nothing else, honestly. It doesn't scan your computer or talk t
Re:Huh? What's wrong with this? (Score:5, Interesting)
That's what's wrong with that.
Re:Huh? What's wrong with this? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Giving the consumer a product which gives them what they think they need will be an amazing moneyspinner.
Re:Huh? What's wrong with this? (Score:4, Interesting)
After all, SMS was never really thought for the broad public, it was more or less thought to replace the beeper in some circumstances or to send technical status messages.
But then the public discovered the SMS and turned them in a cheap chat system. And suddenly a technical byproduct became a main selling point for GSM plans, and the prices for SMS services skyrocketed.
Ringle? (Score:3, Funny)
Oh, well. Barbara Bach is still moderately attractive [bbc.co.uk], anyways.
Re:Huh? What's wrong with this? (Score:5, Insightful)
Well - there's nothing wrong with them trying to sell people stuff. Just because we won't buy it doesn't make it wrong. It just makes it a failed attempt.
One problem is that this failed attempt will inevitably be blamed on piracy. Watch.
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Don't be stupid, you moron. (Score:3, Interesting)
If you don't want it, don't buy it. Same with full-length CDs. No, only wanting one song from a CD does not justify illicit downloads anymore than it justifies stealing a physical CD.
With all the options available--CD singles, CD albums, greatest hits collections, "That's What I Call Crap for Your Ears" mixes, online shops with single song downloads, etc.--it is not reasonable to complain that there is no way for
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This is the problem with the music industry. The correct response in a capitalist system should be "if you don't want to put up with their crap, go to a competitor". But there are no competitors in the music industry. Music recordings aren't interchangeable. If I want Song Y by Band X, then I have to submit to Recording Company Z's terms. Song A by Band B is not an alternative. Even Song Y by Band B is not an alternative.
This is where the black market of cop
Re:Don't be stupid, you moron. (Score:5, Insightful)
If you can get it any cheaper than as part of a 13-CD $150 collection, send me the link and I'll put my money where my mouth is. I've been looking for a copy for months (it is available for piracy though).
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Umm... As you point out in your very next paragraph;
It may not be cheap, but it *is* legitimate.
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Re:Huh? What's wrong with this? (Score:5, Interesting)
Years from now, business schools will teach the behavior of the music labels and the RIAA at the turn of the millenium as a case study in the way to kill off an entire industry sector. Musicians will swap stories about how their predecessors had to deal with a business relationship to the labels that was not so different from the ones the coal miners had to suffer under half a century earlier. One difference being that when the coal miners died, at least the company couldn't abuse them any more.
I've gone almost two years without buying a single music recording from anyone but the artist, and my collection is richer than ever. For the classical music and opera that I sometimes enjoy, I simply rip the CDs I can borrow from the excellent collections at the Chicago Public Library and then I use the savings to pay for a pair of season tickets to the Lyric Opera (which is doing La Boheme, La Traviata AND Atomic City by John Adams/Peter Sellars this season).
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Re:Huh? What's wrong with this? (Score:4, Informative)
Serious question: is that legal?
The making your own ringtone part: yes (though record companies wish it wasn't). The ripping CDs from the library part: no (not even a little).
Ringtone (Score:2, Funny)
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(apologies to "crazy warehouse guy" from the Chaser's War on Everything).
B.
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Sure. Provided ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Sure. Provided ... (Score:4, Interesting)
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It does happen... but yeah, it's not something that I hit often.
Question of tradeoffs. (Score:4, Interesting)
There are lots of CDs where I liked most or all of the songs on the disc, but I wouldn't have purchased them individually if I'd had a choice. That is, they're acceptable, but they're obviously filler. At $6-10 for the whole disc, I'll buy it, because the value of the songs I like makes up for the somewhat lower value of the filler songs, and I don't find them so offensive that I need to skip over them when I'm listening to a disc or anything
It's a question of alternatives. If I like three songs on a disc a lot, and the rest not quite so much, I'm only going to buy the three songs. It's not because I hate the other songs on the disc, but because I know I can save the money, and then turn around and spend it on the best few songs from three or four other albums. By doing that, the net quality of my music collection (in my own, totally subjective, estimation) is higher.
I know there's a virtually limitless quantity of music out there to discover; the limiting factor is going to be my money and time, not the available music. So therefore, it makes sense to only buy the best tracks from each disc, if that option is available.
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Also, in filling out my collection, I tend to find a couple songs I like from an artist I normally wouldn't buy their albums. So in that case, I buy the couple of songs I like from them, and then that's it.
But then again, this r
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I buy all my CDs at cdbaby.com -- most of them are non-RIAA artists, and the CDs are DRM-free. A much better deal, most of the time, than buying crappy mp3s from an online store.
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1) HotSingle (Radio edit)
2) HotSingle (Explicit)
3) HotSingle (Extended dub mix)
4) Free* ringtone
*actually costs freedom, requires personal contact information to redeem.
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Seriously, where did you see this information? Where did they say "uncompressed", and where did they say "DRM-free"?
What's wrong with this? Um ... Numbers? (Score:5, Informative)
For the Record Companies.
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Not much higher?
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Ringle sounds like it'd be a delicious snack, though. Like a Pringle, only flatter.
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Cost of manufacture (Score:2)
Yes, I know there is more than just manuf
Re:Cost of manufacture (Score:4, Informative)
"This was back before we could even create CDs at our own PCs and when CD prices were at their premium of $16-18 each. (Then again, aren't they still around that price?)"
No. The average price of the top ten CDs on Amazon (the nation's #1 music retailer, apparently) is $10.28. Audiophile recordings, CDs with bonus DVDs, and the like can get up to $16 - $18, but nowadays, the effective price for most new CDs is $10 or $12.
"Yes, I know there is more than just manufacturing..."
Manufacturing is typically the smallest component of the cost of sale. The record company typically pays more in royalties than they do in manufacturing costs. And, of course, that doesn't include production costs, shipping, returns, marketing programs (a big piece of the pie), overhead and the myriad other costs that are a reality of the retail business no matter what you sell. But, for what it's worth, finished CDs don't cost $0.25 to produce.
"but consider that every $.25 profit to each disc was 100% profit. So, even if the labels made $1 profit for each disc sold, they made 400% profit."
I am not sure I follow your math. A buck net profit per CD sounds a bit right. If they sell in to distribution at $8, and net $1, that's about 12 points of margin.
Remember -- after several quarters of reporting really, really low profitability, Warner Music lost money last year. I know the "record companies make obscene profits" story is a popular one on Slashdot, but it is generally not correct.
Re:Ringtones are TAKING OVER: ~10% of ALL MUSIC SA (Score:2)
hahaha!
that's only twice what Apple charges
Hahahaha!!
plus it's CD quality
HAHAAHAHAHAH!!!11one
This sounds dumb
You said it.
About as dumb as people who think a "ringtone" is anything other than getting fucked up the peehole by the RIAA. $2 to get a crappy sounding midi or 30-second low-quality clip of a song? You deserve to get shafted if you think that's good value.
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a. Convenience (if they can make it easy to get the ringtone, they might get more sales)
b. Their market is the crowd that does not know how to do this. While there are plenty of people who use the latest gadgets and know how to do these more complex actions, there are many people who still barely know how to change their ringtone, let alone make their own.