Amazon MP3 Vs. iTunes Music Store 310
Ali writes "As discussed here recently, amazon.com has launched a public beta of Amazon MP3, a digital music store that provides DRM-free downloads of over 2 million songs from 180,000 artists and 20,000 labels. In comparison, Apple says the iTunes Store now contains over 6 million songs. Here is a head-to-head comparison."
I choose Amazon (Prime) (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:I choose Amazon (Prime) (Score:5, Interesting)
profit margin (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem with that, and maybe with the whole amazon gig is the profit margin issue. My impression, perhaps I'm wrong, was that apple was pocketing less than a dime a song for itunes music store. I suppose that varies a lot with the rate songs are sold since there are many fixed costs. If that dime a song margin is accurate then amazon must be running on fumes since they are underselling Apple. Presumably this is not too server lite either since I'm guessing the songs are watermarked with your ID and then MP3 compressed. So assuming amazon is not getting a better deal than apple it's hard to see how these low rates will last. Recall the record companies wanted apple to 1) share Ipod revenues with them and 2) raise prices on new releases. Given that I'd say either the record comapnies have decided to sell music for less (ha ha ha) or these are teaser rates. Does anyone think Amazon is giving them a cut of music player sales.... So it makes not sense for the record companies to move away from apple to accept even less (unless they were incredibly freakin' scared). So getting back to the CD shipping. That would mean even less profit perhaps or perhaps they could charge $1 for the instant album download option.
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http://www.suicidesqueeze.net/order.html [suicidesqueeze.net]
"Page France
and the Family Telephone CD/LP...
CD Price: $12.00
LP Price: $10.00 (Limited edition! Comes with a coupon for a free download of the entire album in MP3 format.)"
So basically, you pay less for the vinyl and get to download
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But how many people still have a player. When was the last time you saw one for sale at an electronics store?
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By the way, anyone notice that the #1 song on AmazonMP3 is 1234 by Feist [amazon.com]. You will never guess who uses that song to promote the new version of their rarely heard of product
Drive customers away from Apple... (Score:3, Insightful)
As such, I think you're missing an essential part of the strategy: The labels put MP3s on Amazon in an attempt to drive customers away from Apple, with the result that if enough people switch then Apple no longer has the clout to stand up to them. After that the next time the contracts are negotiated they raise the rates everywhere and require everyone to use whatever bran
Re:Drive customers away from Apple... (Score:5, Interesting)
Heck, in that sort of situation Amazon and Apple could probably sue "them" for antitrust violations.
Exactly... (Score:2)
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Re:Drive customers away from Apple... (Score:4, Insightful)
The grandparent never said to "buy DRM laden tracks", Mr. McStrawman. And you have only Amazon's word that the watermarks Amazon admit are in many of their tracks don't contain personally identifying information; whereas with Apple's watermark-free music you can trivially read or remove any information in the tags.
I think grandparent is wrong about the labels being able to take back the DRM-freeness (DRM will remain dead for the same reason it is dying now: the iPod), but I do expect them to raise prices, as the grandparent suggests. By allowing variable pricing, Amazon has made themselves much more vulnerable to gradually increasing prices (both by the labels and by themselves), when compared to Apple's fixed pricing.
People taking the Amazon MP3 store as some sort of victory against Apple have things almost entirely backwards.
Apple has just won the online music wars far more permanently than they could by simply owning ~80% of the market; the Amazon MP3 store is the Big labels' terms of surrender (well, 2 of them, Sony and Warner are still holding out). Those terms say the labels will let people sell cheap, convenient, DRM-free music that isn't locked down to only Microsoft-approved systems, and Apple will continue to make ludicrous amounts of money selling such systems.
The only real downsides for Apple here are:
1) This comes at a time when Apple is in the middle of trying to grab two new markets with the iPhone/iPod (video and mobile telephony), and you can tell from their product lineup's limitations that they're already having a lot of trouble getting the kind of decent terms that allowed the iPod&iTunes combo to work so well for music. Anything that the movie/TV/mobile-network companies can interpret as a sign of Apple's weakness (real of imagined) is going to somewhat undermine Apple's ability to do for other industries what they did for music.
And
2) Universal has basically said that, at least for the next several months, they will sell DRM-free music to anyone but Apple. Basically they've decided that a free market where consumers can pick the store they like is too dangerous, so they're going to use their monopoly on certain music to artificially undermine their most popular distributor rather than just selling DRM-free music to anyone who will pay and letting the market decide. This is probably a temporary situation imho, as Universal can't throw away income from their largest online distributor forever, and it really doesn't do Apple much harm since they make their real money on iPods anyway and Amazon MP3 works just fine there, but this kind of discriminatory sales policy sets an ugly precedent.
Re:profit margin (Score:5, Informative)
Current estimates are about a dime, with "wholesale cost" (i.e. the label's cut) being about $0.70 for majors and $0.60-65 for independents.
The rest of the cost is supposed to be comprosed of infrastructure, operational expenses, and transaction fees from the credit card companies. I'll eat my own shoes if Amazon's costs aren't lower. They're largely reusing a pre-existing retail infrastructure. And as a major retail operation, they doubtless have a ton of clout with the credit card companies (which are commonly cited as having the next biggest cut after the labels).
Presumably this is not too server lite either since I'm guessing the songs are watermarked with your ID and then MP3 compressed.
Nope. The songs are being provided encoded by the labels and the only watermarks identify the retailer, not the purchaser. Bandwidth would be the predominant cost here.
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Man, if we could just get someone to 'think different' or 'think outside the box' even.
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Re:I choose Amazon (Prime) (Score:5, Insightful)
After seeing how many music disks are sold without the CD-DA logo, strongly suggesting that there is non-audio, likely executable code on the disk to interfere with ripping, I have my doubts about this. I find myself wondering if, at this point, buying a DRM-free MP3 from Amazon actually leaves the consumer more liberated than buying a music disk.
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Re:I choose Amazon (Prime) (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I choose Amazon (Prime) (Score:5, Funny)
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!lossless = !buying (Score:3, Insightful)
Let me guess: You buy overpriced $100 gold tipped cables, don't you?
Don't get me wrong. My ears probably don't care, really, and I'd be transcoding to Ogg Vorbis as soon as I got it.
But I still don't want to be locked into a single lossy format forever, even if I was buying it in today's best codec.
This is one reason I plan to start buying and burning off FLACs from Magnatune [magnatune.com] in the near future. Their full-length mp3 samples are fine for previewing/freeloading, but if I'm going to actually pay money for the music, I'd like the freedom to change to tomorrow's super-
Bad info in article. (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:Bad info in article. (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Bad info in article. (Score:4, Informative)
Of course, even getting to see their plans without signing up is deliberately made difficult, but if you follow the links around from their legalese pages, you find a well buried link to the plans [emusic.com].
I have had no luck in finding out what quality the tracks are ripped with, or what software was used to rip them. Nor any other technical details.
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Re:Bad info in article. (Score:5, Insightful)
Your comment was the first time I'd heart of it (or perhaps I'd read of it in passing before, but this is the first time it registered.)
So, I went to go see what how their selection is. Guess what, can't do anything without signing up for a trial (and giving them name, address and a credit card number.) You really think I'm going to do that when I have no idea what bands they even carry?
Plus the "deal" seems to resemble those old shady Columbia House ads my parents would never let me sign up for. $10 for 30 downloads a month. Not sure what it costs to buy more than 30, and of course if you don't choose 30 songs you're still out the money. Sorry, but that doesn't work for me. Buying music is an impulsive thing. I don't want a steady stream of 30 songs to pick a month. I want to buy things on a whim, some times no songs a month, some times going on a tear and buying dozens or hundreds when I discover a new band or genre.
And of course, if they don't have what I want, I'll have to get it elsewhere-- while still paying them their monthly fee. And I guarantee they won't have everything I want. Fuck that.
Maybe this has something to do with why no one has heard of it? Sounds like a pretty crappy business model to me.
Re:Bad info in article. (Score:4, Insightful)
http://www.emusic.com/browse/all.html [emusic.com]
So even slashdotters are uanble to use their site successfully... It took me way too long to figure out that URL. Tried a few approaches, but every single one of them seemes to slam a huge ad and trying to make me write my credit card number to get something "for free".
Frankly, what the hell is their design goal? "Impersonate a scam site"? If I had dropped in there by chance, every single red flag I have would trigger: "SCAM! SCAM! Don't fall for this! Get out! Close the browser, scan for spyware. Phew. I'm safe again."
This is exactly the kind of site I warn my family about and tell them they should never, ever hand even their email to. Kinda sucks when you're a legit site... I'm sure they could have a huge boost in subscribers by changing their fron page to something just a little bit less scammy-looking.
Agree with parent on all points. I have been considering to purchase music from them several times, but everytime I visit their site, I just end up thinking "why bother? this site sucks" and postphone it another 3 months.
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It's even worse... I had signed up for an emusic account then cancelled. After a couple of months, I got a "welcome back" email. I Clicked through the link in the email to get the details, only to find myself resubscribed with my old credi
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Now that Amazon's store is here, I see the comparison with eMusic everywhere, as if it's no big deal since others have done that before. Maybe so, but Amazon is the first real competitor that has a compelling strategy.
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If you're lucky, they'll have one album from the group from back when they were unsigned nobodies with some tiny label.
Amazon, meanwhile, has all the groups you've heard of, and probably all their albums available for $0.89 each.
EMusic has lots of promise, but fails currently (Score:4, Insightful)
There are some pluses - such as there being a downloader for linux (java based), the website being clean and simple to use, and the id3 tags being clean (artist, album, year, genre, BUT no cover).
Personally I think they should make a minor change to their business model. I pay $10 for 30 songs per month. Instead of limiting me to 30 songs, if I go over 30, immediately start another "month" (another 30 songs, another $10). That is, I can download as much as I like, and its about 33c each for each block of 30. With a min of $10 per month. If I commit to one of their higher plans, I can buy songs at a cheaper rate.
That would dramatically increase revenue as I am sure a lot of people like to buy albums, but keep hitting the 30 songs per month limit. They'd cycle "months" much more quickly. However it could reduce profit as people are less likely to fail to download their limit (Think: their best result is when I download nothing in a month).
Anyway, just my $0.02c worth.
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1) As you mention, 128kbps compression. It is terrible. I don't compress lower than 256kbps for my own rips so the low quality eMusic files are a big issue for me. I've even downloaded a few songs with audio level issues. Customer support did not care. Despite the fact the audio levels faded then came back up in the song, CS claimed the file was fine. It was the l
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False. This works for you because you are signed up. Try accessing the site from a different profile or browser (or clean out the cookie and restart the browser). I can't see any way to browse what's available without signing up first, giving them my credit card number and authorizing them to bill me.
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You can also click on the "Login" button on eMusic.com and then a search box and all the links are there.
Or install the Firefox search [mozdev.org].
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Epic fail. For those who can't find it. [emusic.com]
Seeing as how that's probably the most important thing anybody would want to do before signing up, seems pretty silly to hide it in such a non-obvious place.
Summary (Score:3, Informative)
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* no DRM
* money eventually goes to fund the RIAA
iTMS:
* DRM
* money eventually goes to fund the RIAA
Until the RIAA stops suing grandmothers and interrogating 8-years-old children, neither looks like a good option.
I'd rather go Amazon (Score:3, Insightful)
iTunes Plus DRM free... (Score:4, Interesting)
Sometimes though buying it from the iTunes store is simply more convenient... but I sure wish they'd hurry and expand iTunes Plus.
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1-click patent (Score:2)
Unfortunately, by choosing Amazon you'd support a company which has troubled the entire internet with their 1-click patent war.
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What about if it was a nice shiny white plastic pole with an Apple logo on it? Brushed metal?
Perhaps you would consider
Still no?
Okay, then, what about if there was a RED version endorsed by Bono?
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No, but the M4P files which make up 99.99% of iTMS sure are... and despite your screaming, he didn't specifically mention the file format, and I would assume he actually meant the DRM.
As opposed to EVERY OTHER AUDIO CODEC THAT'S COME OUT SINCE MP3... They were all designed to be heavily marketed for a few months, carve out a tiny niche, and then completely dis
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AAC is indeed a decently standardized format, but it's not as widespread as MP3. I don't know of a single device that plays AAC that doesn't also play MP3. The converse can not be said.
Ah, but it's not really about what plays it, is it? It's more about somebody being able to say something embraced almost solely by their pet company isn't in fact technically proprietary...you know, in spite of the fact that said company is among the few businesses to embrace said format almost wholesale.
It's quite a lo
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You can buy some songs without DRM from iTunes -- iTunes Plus has a worse selection than the CD section at Target.
Meanwhile, for $.10 less that iTunes' normal price ($.40 less than iTunes Plus) you can get 256kbps MP3 tracks from Amazon, or a whole album for a dollar less than
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But despite my recommendations, my dad who's a DJ went with iTunes with the ridiculous DRM that went so far that they actually have their own filetype.
iTunes uses AAC, which is an MPEG standard. Just like MP3.
I told him it was insane but he just downloads songs, burns them to a CD, then rips them on the player computer and they're completely un-DRMed as far as I can tell. And that barely loses quality since MP3 to CD quality to top quality MP3 isn't too bad. So yeah it's pretty fast and pretty nice. But no DRM in the first place is good too.
You need to tell him about QTFairUse6 (google it). It will remove the DRM without any loss in quality. Takes less than than burning and ripping too.
How about adding Spiralfrog & imeem (Score:2, Interesting)
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Redundant? (Score:2, Insightful)
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What's the point of selling FLAC? You can just get the raw 44.1 Khz samples from the CD itself. And, FLAC doesn't play in mp3 players like iPod etc.
What would be really cool would be 24 bit 96 khz (or higher) FLAC files for sale on online sites - and please no $5 per song, $1 a song. Maybe even promote 5.1 mixes and none of the peak mashing on CDs. Just a different mix for audiophile listeners.
Would start a whole new excitement around music.
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What's the point of selling FLAC? You can just get the raw 44.1 Khz samples from the CD itself.
Erm, because I can have a FLACed album in 12 minutes flat, while the CD will take anything from 2 days to 3 weeks to arrive, and will then demand effort ripping and finding space to store the hilariously oversized and redundant backup media?
And, FLAC doesn't play in mp3 players like iPod etc.
So fucking what? FLAC turns into ANY OTHER FORMAT. I can turn it into Apple Lossless, or MP3 or AAC or Vorbis or WMA or ATRAC or anything else I have an encoder for, and I can do it as often as I want to as many different formats and bitrates as I want. I can pick d
Re:Redundant? (Score:4, Insightful)
Amazon fails the random song comparison test (Score:2, Interesting)
Genius of Love Tom Tom Club No Yes
Re:Amazon fails the random song comparison test (Score:4, Funny)
(Norwegian eurodance circa 1995-2005 is impossible to get)
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Thank God.
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I know you were probably joking, or rather I hope, but in fact it it s surprisingly and disturbingly easy to get. (The genre is usually referred to as Bubblegum dance [wikipedia.org], and here's a list of well, "artists" [bubblegumdancer.com].)
If you have something special you're looking for, sites such as musiconline.no [musiconline.no] are there for your service. (If you value your sanity, don't look at their "Dancehall" section.)
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Try finding "Dreamgate - Fly like oxygene" or "Reset - Makin' me feel" (neither are featured on the link, but thanks for trying).
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So are recordings of whale mating calls circa 1979-1984. What gives, Amazon and iTunes?
The way the question is framed misses the point (Score:3, Insightful)
But if you're like the vast majority of Ipod owners, you'll continue ripping CDs and loading MP3s from your "library" as you've been doing all along. On the occasions when you need to own one particular tune right now, it doesn't matter if it's 69 cents or 1.29; what matters is that it's in the catalog of the store you're shopping at. That's never easy to tell with Amazon; they've got a bad habit of putting EVERYTHING in their catalog and taking orders for it - regardless of whether they've actually got the item to sell or can even obtain it.
Personally, I gave up on Amazon after they left me on "backorder" status on a book order for a couple of months before I found out from other sources that the book was out of print. I finally got the book from Ebay for half of what Amazon wanted to sell it for - if they'd had any to sell.
Apple? Say what you will about them, but I've never been left feeling misused after dealing with them. What you get is what it says on the box; no "smoke and mirrors" like Amazon. But neither of them is getting any money from me this month (or next month either). I'll continue to buy CDs at deep discount and load those into Itunes.
Increases leverage of record companies, not Apple (Score:4, Insightful)
" No DRM. No consumer likes DRM, and although Apple hasn't yet released any statistics on how the DRM-free tracks from EMI have sold in comparison with the DRM-encumbered versions of the same tracks, Amazon has done the right thing by eliminating it across the board. Hopefully Amazon's move will give Apple some leverage with the music labels to make more DRM-free tracks available."
He's got it backwards. This deal gives the record companies a strategic advantage in its pricing battle with Apple. Allowing Amazon to sell DRM-free songs but variably-priced would be best interpreted as the record companies giving Steve Jobs the finger. Only one of the major record companies has allowed Apple to sell DRM-free songs and then only at a premium price.
Of the battling parties, it is the record companies who have gained leverage with this move, not Apple. The message to Apple is clear: allow variable pricing and we'll let you sell DRM-free tracks. Keep insisting on fixed pricing and we'll only let you sell DRMed tracks.
Re:Increases leverage of record companies, not App (Score:2)
Still, Apple is by no means unseated from their dominant market position. The Record Labels could only lose, and lose they have: they have stiffed Apple *only* by offering mp3 downloads from Amazon. Wow, what a blow...
A real loss would be if Apple caved in and started selling tracks with variable pricing. On the other hand, what if Apple now said, "we will no longer sell DRMed tracks. Go give your DRM arguments to Amazon." As long as they continued to operate the iTunes st
I'd like to try Amazon (Score:4, Informative)
For now I'll stick to eMusic and DownloadPunk (albums are downloaded as a zip).
Re:I'd like to try Amazon (Score:4, Funny)
Re:I'd like to try Amazon (Score:5, Informative)
Oh come on now.
With this offering, Amazon has done more to make Linux a first-class citizen in the online music space than maybe any other company to date. That's hardly "lock[ing] out Linux users."
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There is nothing stopping you from buying the whole album without using their downloader. You just have to actually download all the songs individually.
Yeah, and pay more. For example, if I wanted to buy "Year Zero" [amazon.com] by Nine Inch Nails, it'd cost $7.99 to download as an album or $14.24 to buy it as individual songs.
The "Buy MP3 Album With 1-Click" button says "Requires Amazon MP3 Downloader". The "Amazon MP3 Downloader" page says "We recommend installing the Amazon MP3 Downloader before your first purchase. It is required for album purchases, and makes downloading songs fast and easy." If there's a way to download an album without it I'd be happy to gi
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You know what? It really started to sound like "No coloured people" sign to me.
I don't buy RIAA excuse either.
Waiting for google to join the party (Score:2, Interesting)
a)Bandwidth , check
b)Storage capacity, check
c)Revenue stream, check ( subscription / adds )
d)Search, check
e)Marketing, check
f)...
h)Profit! (I'm sincerely sorry, but it didn't feel right to leave it out.)
Question is if they will write it themself or if they are waiting for somebody else to do the hard work so they can buy it.
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wait a minute.... that's Microsoft!!
DRM free? Not quite... (Score:3, Insightful)
They say DRM is bad... (Score:2)
Apple controls the iTMS DRM. The iTMS DRM is the only DRM supported on the iPod. Having your music store work on an iPod is critical. Since working on iPods is critical to the success of any music store right now, there is only one option to sell digitally outside the iTMS and do that - no DRM. Apple's control has left the labels no choice. We would not be seeing this if iTMS DRM was opened up for
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Amazon MP3 made my Mac snappier! (Score:4, Funny)
No one reason, I reply stroking the Van Dyke beard that looks so rakish with a black turtleneck (it has fully grown back in since that regrettable incident with the calipers, thank you for asking).
For a full analysis of my shopping habits, perhaps it is better if I quote from my ten part, 3,400-word blog post on the subject, which can be found carefully archived at my site, DaringTurdball.com.
"When I see a new car ad on TV and just have to 'run out' and buy the music playing in the background, there are few things I like to put in order first. You might call them 'ducks,' and say I am getting them 'in a row'--but just make sure it's a digital row, and that the ducks are all downsampled audio recordings. Ha, ha--or should I say, Quack quack!"
"One, I don't want too high a bitrate. High bitrates are known to use up A.R.S.E. (Auditory Response Synchronization Energy), a finite resource found in the resonant bones that frame the auditory canal. In layman's terms, higher bitrates wear out ears faster. You only have so much A.R.S.E. Why splurge?"
"Second, I take the 'fidelity' in high fidelity seriously. That's why I want to lock down my music as securely as a 13th century feudal lord securing his wife's genitals before he rides off to the Crusades. Doing so requires strong DRM so that my musical 'honey pots' don't end up getting 'stirred' by any other portable music players. I like knowing my songs are safe and won't be getting roughly used by a Zune on the side."
"Third, like most Americans, I don't want to pay too little. Everyone knows there's a direct relationship between price and quality. I like knowing my song has received that extra special touch of attention, even if it's just someone leaving on a light for it at Apple. Who knows? Maybe while it was waiting to be downloaded, The Steve walked by and gave it the old 'thumbs up' or even a 'peace sign'!"
"Adequately priced low-bitrate songs belted down with high-quality DRM so that they won't fall out of my iPod: yes, it's what I call a musical 'match made in heaven'--thank you, iTMS!"
Fails on search (Score:2, Informative)
Sorry, but iTunes is just an infinitely easier to use store than the Amazon web site; and have you SEEN the Wireles
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DRM isn't bad if it doesn't hurt 'most consumers'? (Score:2)
Or, if they absolutely have to not buy one (what are you people, Apple hat0rz!? BUY ONE!), they can just burn it to a CD and then re-encode! Give that CD-R to your aunt who makes pretty little wind chimes out of them and enjoy your doubly-compressed tune.. or just BUY an iPod!
---
I'm sure your store compla
Apple now has another reason to sell iPod (Score:2)
Apple now has the market lock necessary to 'survive' the creation of a competing music store. The synergy that the iTunesMusicStore brought to the iPod is now no longer necessary. It was initially created to provide a legal outlet for music to be bought.
The record companies are getting greedy(ier) (bu
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iTunes came out around the time I had bought an mp3 player. I was ready to jump into buying digital music (yes, I know vinyl is the best and mp3 is the last, forgive me) when I saw iTunes. But no - Apple just rejected me as a customer by their businessmindedness when they included DRM, and also tried to force me buying iPod.
For all these years, I have been buying CDs when I wanted the music, ripping it off to mp3 (and later ogg when I learned about it) and putting it to my jukebox (iRiver H320
iTunes Plus not proprietary... (Score:3, Informative)
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"again"?
funny, the 200+ CDs I have next to me have no DRM. (Yeahyeahyeah, I know some CDs have weird crap to attempt to inflict DRM, but those are few and easy enough to avoid.) And no lossy compression, either. Plus, they're pretty much impervious to hard drive crashes.
And if you hit a good used-CD store, the price is comparable to the prices listed above...
Re:Amazon needs to add easy sorting (Score:4, Funny)
Amazon would be doing you a favor if they returned results to another artist.
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AAC is not really open, but it's a standard and pushed by the same people that made MP3 (it's the audio part of mp4), so it is at least as open as mp3. For this particular comparison amazonmp3 sells non-DRMed music for about 40% less than itunes, so that is a better comparison. As far as I know OGG is the only really 'open' standard. I'm already being rated as a troll in an earlier post for implying that all music that itunes sold is tied to ipods a
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I bought a DVD player and threw out my VHS video player. Now all my old tapes won't play, I was ripped off. At least with iTunes you have the option to burn your tracks to non DRM CDs.
He just needs to reauthorise his computer