Scammers Exploit DTV Coupon Program 219
An anonymous reader writes "Analog TV users must purchase a DTV converter box before broadcasts go digital in 2009, and the US Government is offering $40 coupons to support the transition. The coupon program requires retailers to become certified by the NTIA (the Government body running the program) before processing orders for the boxes. Apparently the certification program is a bit lax, as the frenzy to purchase DTV boxes using these coupons seems to have drawn unscrupulous fraud artists into the mix. Memsen, via its web site convertmy.tv and its hardware partner Maxmedia, partnered apparently to pull a bait-and-switch game on unsuspecting consumers and the US Government." Read on for details of the scam claimed by this anonymous reader.
Maxmedia and convertmy.tv (CMTV) together promoted the Maxmedia MMDTVB03, which appeared to be the most feature-rich of the coupon-eligible converter boxes. The box drew public interest and even coverage by 3rd-party review sites.
CMTV quickly took pre-orders for the box, and promised delivery first in April, 2008, and later pushed the date back to May. The company immediately redeemed the Government coupons (in violation of the program rules, which prohibit back-ordering) and charged customer credit cards. Early-adopting consumers were willing to overlook these practices, feeling they would eventually own the best box on the market.
CMTV yesterday announced that they would not be shipping the MMDTVB03 at all — it would be replaced by the MMDTVB02, which they claim will have a better picture. Of course, the "new & improved" box will not ship until June. As an alternative, CMTV indicated it would allow customers to switch to an inferior box for $5 less.
Consumers are outraged by CMTV/MaxMedia's bait-and-switch tactics but are having difficulty finding out who these companies really are. Neither company publishes physical addresses or phone numbers on their web sites, and consumers have resorted to their own detective work to find the info.
As of April 8, 2008, the convertmy.tv web site is still accepting and processing orders for the "new" MMDTVB02 — in clear violation of the NTIA program rules, which only allows coupons to be applied to DTV boxes on its approved list.
Misleading summary (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Misleading summary (Score:5, Funny)
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[Offtopic] What is required for an analog TV? (Score:3, Interesting)
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Yes, you still need the DTV receiver. The DTV receiver is what actually processes OTA signals. The whole "DTV-capable" antenna marketing is largely a sham, like ethernet cables that say they're "broadband ready". Any standard VHF/UHF antenna is usable on your DTV receiver.
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Tips! Also matrices of convert boxes to compare. (Score:4, Informative)
I couldn't use my old fashion rabbit ears since they were too weak and they were decent for analog feeds.
For those who can't decide which converter boxes to get with the coupons, then see Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] and here [freelabs.com]. I still haven't ddecided what to get and I need to get them before May 27th, 2008 (should had waited to get better models).
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The antenna will receive the Over-the-Air television broadcast, but will not convert the DTV signal for your analog TV. You need a Converter Box to convert the DTV broadcast and output the signal your analog TV.
Also, you need a good VHF/UHF antenna for DTV signals. With Analog TV, a poor signal meant that the picture was snowy, contained echos, or is poor quality but still watchable. With DTV, a poor signal *may* make the broadcast unwatchable (the digital TV wi
Re: WAY off (Score:2, Informative)
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Analog TV users are not REQUIRED to purchase a converter box. A converter box is needed if you wish to continue to view over-the-air TV after the transition. Big difference. It's not like Europa.
I suppose they COULD just turn the TV into a planter...
They ARE required to buy a converter if they wish to maintain the same functionality they have now. There are people who don't have cable for various reasons. There are even some that can't get cable. Others may wish to watch one thing over the air and rec
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Quite right.
And also it should be said that the converter box is not going to turn your grandmas old black and white into HDTV which is a completely different standard and not designed to be backward compatible with current analog sets. The big bro ha ha here is only older sets that don't have a digital tuner that they need to pull off air signals. If you have Dish or c
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So on a whim I put "C" as the apartment number (same thing really) and it went through. But the next page was a message saying the address is listed as single family in their records with some vague threat about misrepresenting my eligibility. I just clicked the box indicating that the address was correct and it appeared to go
You can't be serious. (Score:5, Interesting)
You gave your credit card information to a company you've never heard of that has no contact information on their website that you did not validate?
Hahahahahahahahaha.
Re:You can't be serious. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:You can't be serious. (Score:4, Insightful)
It seems doubly stupid, given the fact that a lot of people have had good luck with the Zenith converter being sold at your corner Radio Shack store.
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Meanwhile, they've pocketed $40 of taxpayer dollars.
I fail to see how this is a "lose" for the scammers.
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Even though the top 10% only represents 2.2% of all taxpayers, and those in the under 20% bracket represent over 30% of all taxpayers.
http://www.house.gov/jct/x-45-00.pdf [house.gov]
Now shut up.
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That's why people avoided buying it, and instead wanted the higher-quality Maxmedia or Echostar brands.
Recommending a substitute that doesn't do the same job is not a good recommendation.
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Reading the (clearly-marked) chart, the top 1% earn about 17% of income, yet pay better than 24% of taxes. In other words, more than a third of our taxes fall upon the finances of the top 1%. More than half ("the bulk") fall upon the top 5%, who earn only 31%. This pattern continues.
Really, this is nothing new, or controversial, or even remotely disputed.
(Incidentally, the claim that the "poor people end up in the armed forces" has also been debunked,
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Yep (Score:5, Insightful)
Interestingly, as an aside, all the credit reporting services run sites like that. Which makes them pretty shady in my book.
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Interestingly, as an aside, all the credit reporting services run sites like that.
Huh? Each of the 3 major credit reporting companies (transunion, equifax, and experian) have 800 numbers, and physical addresses to contact them at. I'm not sure if they're such great companies, but there's nothing particularly shady about them.
Re:Yep (Score:4, Funny)
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Each of the 3 major credit reporting companies (transunion, equifax, and experian) have 800 numbers, and physical addresses to contact them at.
I don't think he meant the agencies that report to corps, but rather the variety of websites that sell you access to your own credit report(s) with optional services like emailing you every time there is change to your report.
They seem like a bunch of over-priced profiteers cashing in on problems and fears of problems like identity theft.
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1600 Amphitheatre Parkway
Mountain View, CA 94043
Phone: +1 650-253-0000
Fax: +1 650-253-0001
Main page > About Google > Contact Us
Waiting for me coupon (Score:2)
I'll still need an antenna. I wonder if some places will do a bundle deal and allow the coupon to cover both? That would be nice.
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Really?
What are you currently using for an antenna? What's wrong with that?
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My other antenna is an 18inch dish.........
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But your response was informative and maybe some generous mod will recognize it as such.
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I applied for 2 coupons from the dtv2009.gov website in January. If I remember correctly, their website said they would start start sending the coupons out in February. February has come and gone and I am still waiting for my coupons.
I wonder if I should try applying again?
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I went to the dtv2009.gov website, just now, and clicked on the large graphic that says "where is your coupon." I did not have my original coupon number, so I tried to look it up by the combination of my last name and address. Unfortunately, it could not find my coupon status.
I called their 1-888-388-2009 telephone number to check on the status of my coupon and they could not find it either. So, they had me apply for another coupon. I decided to apply for just one instead of two this time.
I would not b
The coupons are already out? (Score:2)
Seriously, that ticks me off, because that would have saved me eighty dollars. I really do rely on just over-the-air broadcasting.
Re:The coupons are already out? (Score:5, Informative)
It's not like http://dtv2009.gov/ [dtv2009.gov] doesn't have a HUGE graphic on the front page saying "Wondering where your coupon is?"
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Honestly, I thought it might be possible, but I also thought it would entail forty-five minutes of navigating through clunky
Update (This is a real-time comment): My coupon application is not found. I apparently need to reapply. I'll keep you all posted.
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I ordered mine pretty much when the website went online, and got my coupons about three weeks ago.
Get the Zenith DTT900. It's about the best one on the market right now. The only feature it does not have is analog pass-thru, which is likely only required if you live somewhere with translators that aren't going digital (ie: the "boonies"). It's sold at RadioShack stores.
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Say it ain't so! (Score:5, Insightful)
Nobody saw this coming?
Re:Say it ain't so! (Score:4, Insightful)
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Congress wastes our tax dollars by going to war. That seems like a pretty easy shot, but, it's true. It'd make more sense to invest the money in math & science education here so that we retained more of our tech jobs, and could then hire all of those people we would have killed to work low-paying, labor-intensive jobs in our super mega factory factories that they know nothing about.
When you consider that as an alternative, doesn't paying $90 billion dollars to kill them now seem like a waste?
Of course
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Instead of just implementing it as a tax credit (which wouldn't really cost much of anything), the US Government's Department of Commerce is spending millions to process applications, create an infrastructure to accept coupons (which are a form of electronic debit card), and to then put the money in retailer's hands.
It would have been cheaper for the US Government to buy a couple of million boxes, delay the cutover until 2010, and give them to the Census Bureau to distribute when they coun
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Whether or not the entire idea of giving people a converter box, as opposed to "letting the market sort it out" itself is another story
That's a good idea. We could put the onus on the wireless companies who want this analog TV bandwidth. They would have to negotiate with each and every television owner in this nation to create an individualized plan to upgrade or adapt their old TVs. As soon as every last analog TV in the country has been fixed its owner's satisfaction, the telcos could start using their bandwidth.
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How is that a waste?
Why do you ignore the billions of tax dollars these items will provide?
If anything, it's an investment.
Next.
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Guess where that spectrum is coming from? TV UHF Channels 52 through 59.
Just one block, the Class C block, netted the US Treasury $4.74 billion.
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This is as much a "free ride" for the broadcast industry as anything, but it actually is putting the US Government way ahead.
Could have it been handled better? Perhaps, but by in large, We The People will have a technically better television system as a result, and the US Treasury will have a lot more money that they didn't have before.
That doesn't sound like a big lose to me.
Way ahead? (Score:2)
I read a book a several years ago about budget smoke and mirrors in Congress, and it mentioned that Congress already used IIRC 6 billion dollars of the then-planned spectrum auction to balance the budget way back when. 6 billion because that's all they thought the auction would bring in, so that's what they took. Yep, they already spent it, only got lucky and got a little more than pl
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Plus, the government has been inundated with 'where's my money' calls. Sending people letters is a lot cheaper then trying to answer millions of phone calls.
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Dumbass
Coupons expire (Score:5, Informative)
Most expensive coupon design I've ever seen (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Most expensive coupon design I've ever seen (Score:5, Insightful)
The amount of money generate from fraud would far outstripped the money the coupon saved.
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Xbox Live uses a similar scheme to redeem codes for membership. So long as you have enough bits of data in your serial number, and enough orders of magnitude of bad numbers versus good ones, you're pretty well protected.
Potential Help? (Score:4, Informative)
Interestingly enough, their 'Terms of Use' states some info about violating Federal Law, which might be a leverage point:
"Lawful Purpose
IQuest Internet, LLC, reserves the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason at any time. Customers may only use IQuest Internet, LLC, services for lawful purpose. Transmission of any material in violation of any federal, state, or local regulation is strictly prohibited. The includes, but is not limited to, copyrighted material, material legally judged to be threatening or obscene, and material protected by trade secrets. The designation of any materials as described above is left entirely to the discretion of IQuest Internet, LLC, management. Regardless of the place of signing of this agreement, the customer agrees that for purposes of venue, this contract was entered into in Marion County, Indiana, and any dispute will be litigated or arbitrated in Marion County, Indiana."
Issues like these typically target the elderly (a lot like the commercials that are running!!), which doesn't speak well of our morals today!
Hope it helps!!
Flash
A Scam?? Please don't tell me ... (Score:4, Funny)
free (Score:2)
"Newer" replacement?? (Score:2)
What sort of company replaces a product version 3 with a "newer, better" product version 2??
The sort that goes (Score:2)
2 - ?????
1 - I can't keep the joke going.
Site seems to be violating California law (Score:2)
I took a look through the site, and got to the "Enter Credit Card Number" point without seeing the name and address of the business.
That's a criminal offense if selling into California [sitetruth.com]: Before accepting any payment or processing any debit or credit charge or funds transfer, the vendor shall disclose to the buyer in writing or by electronic means of communication, such as e-mail or an on-screen notice, the vendor's return and refund policy, the legal name under which the business is conducted and, except
Re:Coupons eh? (Score:5, Interesting)
I and my wife only have cable TV because it's free with cable internet. We are contemplating a move out of town, beyond the service area of the cable company. If we do, the only TV service we will take will be broadcast, not satellite.
Frankly, we have too much on our hands to even watch the few things we have recorded on our recorder, but it would still be nice to have some service available for free.
you'll love HDTV if.... (Score:5, Informative)
1. you'll [generally[ need a decent UHF antenna... some channels are in the VHF range, but unless you're in one of the oddball U.S. areas, a UHF antenna optimized for reception from 450MHz to 800MHz will do just fine...
2. buy a good antenna, *not* an amplified antenna, overpriced POS antenna from Rat Shack, Target, or Wally World... i'd recommend a DB2 or DB4 design (bow-tie omni w/grid)... you'll find 'em on-line from $25 to $50...
3. keep in mind that the signal is digital and you'll need to point the antenna towards the transmitters... UHF is line-of-sight, so building, towers, trees, walls, etc. can reduce signal... that said, i use a DB2 indoors at 8-foot height and get 20 channels more than 30 miles away from the transmitters... (am using a Hauppauge PVR-950 USB into a 20" AL iMac, but may hook up to my Wega in the near future)...
4. you'll will be *very* impressed with the on-the-air signal compared to the crappy fare touted by your current cable company... nice pictures...
5. you may get better reception at night
6. storms will affect your signal
7. you need good reception or you will lose the picture
8. use a quality RG-6 cable, but don't spring for the over-priced 'gold connector' junk flouted by mindless clerks in stores...
9. outdoor antenna will be better, but you can get surprisingly good reception using an indoor antenna... (amplified rabbit ears [mini-dipoles] aren't worth the money
10. again, antenna direction, placement is key...
hth!
oh, and also... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:you'll love HDTV if.... (Score:5, Informative)
Note that many stations will change channels when the analog stations go off next February. Even if all your local stations are UHF today, some may not be in a few months. For example, all DTV in Seattle is UHF today. Next February, KCTS (PBS), KSTW (CBS), and KCPQ (Fox) will move to VHF channels 9/11/13.
Luckily, often antennas designed for UHF only will actually work for VHF channels 7-13. Amplified UHF antennas are less likely to work for VHF.
Unfortunately, in a few cities VHF channels 2-6 will be used. Philadelphia (ABC), Albany (NBC), and San Antonio (CW) are probably the largest. A UHF-only antenna is not likely to work here.
Shameless self-promotion: there's a list of post-February assignments on my website at http://www.w9wi.com/dtvch/dtvch.html [w9wi.com].
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I do agree that the government should have a role in maintaining an educated public. I'm just not sure that providing free televisi
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If the *government* broke my TV by selling the bandwidth for its broadcast protocol to private parties for billions of dollars, you're damned right the government should use some of the proceeds to cover my costs of rectifying the situation.
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But the government doesn't use VHS tapes to disseminate public information (as previously mentioned, Presidential debates et al.) and emergency information, it uses the airwaves of radio and television -- the public schools always say "during inclement weather, visit our website or tune to a radio or TV station for delays and closings information," and weather watches, warnings, and EAS notifications are disseminated primarily through radio and TV. Given that the government is breaking one of those primary
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In a democratic republic, if enough people think that the government has an obligation regarding the analog TV broadcast under their control, then by definition it has one. As it turns out, they do have an obligation, and they're taking action on it with these coupons.
Re:Coupons eh? (Score:5, Informative)
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And I think that if Google and a bunch of telcos pay the government $billions to make bandwith landgrabs that break my perfectly good TV, the least they can do is use some of the proceeds to compensate me for my expenses.
Re:Coupons eh? (Score:4, Funny)
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How many are going to use the coupon "just cause it's free", and is $40 really that much to ask from Television viewers who have enjoyed and will continue to enjoy free programming for years and have spent much more on buying a TV in t
Re:"Featureful Terrestrial Digital Receiver" (Score:4, Funny)
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Re:"Featureful Terrestrial Digital Receiver" (Score:4, Informative)
This links to a satellite view of the United States:
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&t=k&ll=38.68551,-100.019531&spn=33.079911,60.117187&z=4 [google.com]
This links to a satellite view of the same scale centered on England:
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=51.508742,0&spn=53.711322,120.234375&t=k&z=3 [google.com]
Notice central Europe, Greenland, Newfoundland, Norway, Sweden, the Middle East, northern Africa, Russia, etc..., all fit in the same sized view.
Hmmm... I've seen more then one visitor from the other side of the pond completely miscalculate the length of time their road trip would take.
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Notice central Europe, Greenland, Newfoundland, Norway, Sweden, the Middle East, northern Africa, Russia, etc..., all fit in the same sized view.
It isn't quite that simple. Google maps uses mercator projection [wikipedia.org] which distorts the size as a trade-off for depicting longitude lines as parallel instead of converging like they do on a real sphere.
Thus the farther towards the poles, the more the size is exaggerated. Which, in this case makes Europe, the UK and especially greenland, look larger as they are generally more northern than the US. For example, NYC seems to be roughly in the same latitude as northern spain or the south of france.
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Also, notice how the US appears half the size in the second map than it does in the first.
Here's something for you to try:
Similarly, compare, say, the size of the US to the size of Greenland on Google Maps, and then look on a globe to confirm your findings.
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I guess the 'preview' thing could have used a little link checking. Messing up the example kind of reduces the impact...
Troll-o-rama? (Score:2)
Man oh man oh man - somebody forgot their happy pill today.
Note to [some] mods: If you don't understand it, either run it by Google or just let it slide.
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I bought an Insignia brand box at Best Buy. About $65, IIRC. It works OK.
28 Million Food Stamps (Score:2)
It's 28 Million Americans on food stamps!!!
See:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/31/us/31foodstamps.html?_r=1 [nytimes.com]
"Driven by a painful mix of layoffs and rising food and fuel prices, the number of Americans receiving food stamps is projected to reach 28 million in the coming year, the highest level since the aid program began in the 1960s. "
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Yes, they do. They are the ones who set the price floor for milk and they are the ones who buy the surplus. (and they make it into cheese, and that's the first thing they usually hand out to disaster victims) They also caused corn prices to rise by ethanol subsidies, and indirectly caused wheat to rise because farmers are growing less as it's more profitable to grow corn. (which also caused corn products in M
Re:Portable TV & Blackout (Score:2)
Do you have a car? Does it have a battery? If so, any inexpensive inverter should be able to power the box.
http://www.xantrex.com/ [xantrex.com] Pick one. I have the 1KW unit. It runs my computer, lights, fridge and TV. Keep a full spare can of gas handy.
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Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Oh man, that's the funniest joke I've heard in a long time!
MOD PARENT UP (Score:2)
Pay the bill and cancel the card. State in the letter that as of the date written you have paid your obligation and that you are notifying the ca