RIAA Sues Homeless Man 245
NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "In a Manhattan case, Warner v. Berry, the RIAA sued a man who lives in a homeless shelter, leaving a copy of the summons and complaint not at the homeless shelter, but at an apartment the man had occupied in better times, and had long since vacated. The RIAA's lawyers were threatened with sanctions by the Magistrate Judge in the case, for making misleading representations to the Court which the Magistrate felt were intentional. The District Judge, however, disagreed with imposing sanctions, giving the RIAA's lawyers 'as officers of the Court the benefit of the doubt,' and instead concluded — in his 6-page opinion (PDF) — that the RIAA's lawyers were just being 'sloppy' and had not made the misstatements for an improper purpose.'"
Wrong, wrong, wrong! (Score:5, Insightful)
Wrong!
As officers of the Court they should be held to a higher standard. Sloppy isn't an excuse.
Re:Wrong, wrong, wrong! (Score:5, Insightful)
"Sloppy" should not be in a lawyer's vocabulary. In court, "sloppy" can land somebody in jail, backrupt them, cause divorce, take away their children, and destroy their life altogether in a myriad of ways.
"Sloppy" is what a McDonalds' burger maker does. When lawyers serve a subpoena that's about as accurate as addressing McCain as "Mrs Clinton", there should certainly be repercussions.
Otherwise, what prevents them from being "sloppy" and just file papers against every single college student in the United States?
Re:Wrong, wrong, wrong! (Score:5, Insightful)
Having said that, court systems 'seem' to be the daytime hangout of a rather large boy's club in many places around the country. The lawyer defending you probably plays golf with either the judge or your opponents lawyer, or both!
IANAL, but I've had happy hour beers with a few. Sloppy is what you do when you think the court will be benevolent toward your actions. If the court has a reputation for seriousness and crossing-tees-dotting-eyes behavior, sloppy is NOT what you do.
Personally, you and I know that the judge in this case has heard about the stories of the **AA's actions around the country. It would be professionally negligent to not have been following those stories. So, to give them any slack when they are sloppy and wasting court time and resources is tantamount to saying "plaintiff wins, next case!"
I seriously don't think this homeless guy has a snowball's chance in hell.
I'm amazed (Score:5, Insightful)
Namely: how much money did the MafiAA pay the district judge for this ruling?
Re:I'm amazed (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:I'm amazed (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I'm amazed (Score:4, Interesting)
As much as I dont like the RIAA and the rest, the real problem is tort legislation in America, not the lawyers who abuse it or make an honest mistake. Change torts, change everything. These guys shouldnt be allowed to sue like this without some kind of real damages threshold, and in case of IP law they should pay the court if they lose.
Re:I'm amazed (Score:5, Funny)
What are these RIAA lawyers thinking? WTF!
Hold the Phone! (Score:3, Insightful)
That's not likely. First and foremost he's vested in keeping his job so that means he's up to his eyeballs in the political machinations of his region and processing cases as quickly as possible. Unless it's some sort of hobby for him like it is for NewYorkCountryLawyer.
Which takes less time, giving prosecutors a free-pass or generating MORE work calling the RIAA lawyers out on their
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I disagree with all this outrage about the judge not imposing sanctions. I think the judge did the right thing
1) A judge can only really decide the case in front of him. At most, he/she can take under consideration the actions that the lawyers in the case has done in other cases. He cannot consider what other lawyers hired by the same client has done. Those other lawyers in other states should have no bearing on the case.
2) A judge is accountable to higher courts. Every decision that this judge
Re:Wrong, wrong, wrong! (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Wrong, wrong, wrong! (Score:5, Insightful)
Justice in the american legal system has always been only for those with he largest bank accounts.
Re:Wrong, wrong, wrong! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Wrong, wrong, wrong! (Score:5, Informative)
(1) Malpractice: if a lawyer is 'sloppy' in his representation of a client, the client can sue the lawyer ofr malpractice, as well as make a complaint to the applicable state bar association. This can result in the lawyer paying large amounts of money to the client, reprimands being placed in the lawyer's file from the state bar, and even the lawyer having his license to practice law revoked.
(2) FRCP Rule 11 Sanctions Unbeknownst to many oustide the legal profession, the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure (and most state rules) allow for the court to impose sanctions/award costs for frivolous filings. Extreme sloppiness sometimes falls into this category.
(3) Court's discretion In its own discretion, the Court can sanction an attorney for sloppiness or other misconduct that wastes the court's time. This can result in a case being dismissed with prejudice (meaning the attorney cannot refile the case, and will likely get pegged by the client for malpractice).
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Re:Wrong, wrong, wrong! (Score:5, Insightful)
Offhand, I would say pricks like you trying to impose your own "moral values" on the rest of us...
And for the 8 millionth time here, it isn't "thievery" - it is copyright violation. Get it right!
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But then again, that's what I should expect from someone who is too much of a wimp to even give a name.
Imagine that, an Anonymous Coward on a high horse about their morals. LOL! Thanks for giving me a laugh! Now go away...
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And yes I can oppose the RIAA and MPAA and the media companies left right and sideways and still support the idea that people shouldn't pirate stuff. The RIAA and MPAA are trying to take away peoples rights. I really do
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In related news... (Score:5, Funny)
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Much in the same way how you couldn't really sue The Onion for mocking your social institution d'jour.
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Or really sloppy (Score:5, Funny)
Or a really, really sloppy lawyer.
Fine... (Score:5, Insightful)
Default dismissal by precedence? (Score:5, Funny)
(cue judge, asked for a warrant)
A search? Why? The RIAA thinks someone's downloading their stuff? The organisation that randomly sues people, from grannies to bums? Get outta my courtroom before I have you thrown out the window!
Re:Default dismissal by precedence? (Score:5, Funny)
Buying CDs is sponsoring terrorism!
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Hollywood is full of pinko commie bastards who hate America and send their revenue from "Why America is to Blame 4: Rise of the Anti-Christ" to terrorist training camps.
Terrorists, meanwhile, sell boot-leg copies, download and distribute copies, and otherwise use illegal means to make money off the Hollywood movies and music to fund terrorist training camps.
It's INGENIUS! All you need is for Hollywood to pretend to be stopping the pirates, and it would seem that they are
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What's next guys, raping a nun? (Score:5, Insightful)
The sad thing is, there are real legal issues here. The RIAA is using the American court system as an vehicle of intimidation, and to give a mask of legality very illegal activities (like investigating people with unlicensed private investigators, shotgun lawsuits that target innocent people, organized extortion, etc.). Meanwhile, the courts seem all too willing to just sit back and let them do it, with no acknowledgement that this is part of an organized campaign. I guess the Supreme Court has more important things [nytimes.com] to deal with.
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I always thought judges were supposed to be called, "your honor." Guess we can scratch one.
Re:What's next guys, raping a nun? (Score:5, Insightful)
How much cash do homeless people have? Maybe I should be panhandling from them.
While it is deplorable that the RIAA seems to be so fixated on suing those with the least means to defend themselves, being poor doesn't make one above the law. Both sides of this issue pretty much top my list of people that the world can do without.
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Many of them make more after taxes than I do. If you need a smoke, go ahead and ask one. Quite often they are well stocked and willing to share.
Because his boss says not too (Score:5, Insightful)
You realize there are only 4 major media companies in the world right now. Lou's bosses reports to a producer who works for a company that is owned by one of these media conglomerates, who also owns several major recording labels. The moment Lou reports that the RIAA is doing something evil, Lou and his producer immediately get fired for casting the company in a bad light and Lou gets blacklisted.
Now... I am surprised that the BBC and NPR haven't picked up on this yet. Maybe they have, but can't devote a 2 minute segment to it each and every day so I may have missed one of their special reports, but considering there are, seriously, more important stories to run such as olympic protests, government upheavals, elections here and abroad, etc, I'm not entirely surprised. It sucks, but put into perspective of US National and world news, is it as important?
Re:Because his boss says not too (Score:4, Informative)
The Problem is until these sorts of things become significantly political they never get air time. Even the current battle between the iPlayer and ISP's hasn't made the current news.
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The moment Lou reports that the RIAA is doing something evil, Lou and his producer immediately get fired for casting the company in a bad light and Lou gets blacklisted.
In fact something like this has already occurred. In the documentary film The Corporation [wikipedia.org] there was a segment about the suppression of an investigative news story about Bovine Growth Hormone on a Fox News Channel affiliate television station. The program was called "The Investigators" and it was supposed to be a hard-hitting expose type news magazine program. The only problem was that their first target, Monsanto, happened to be a major advertiser on Fox News and other media properties owned by Rupert Murd [wikipedia.org]
Are you kidding (Score:4, Funny)
The damn homeless, always thinking about themselves! This guy clearly can afford to buy this music, as opposed to pirating it. We need to criminalize his actions, so we can keep his kind off of the street!
[sarcasm:disabled]
I mean seriously, this has to be an article from The Onion. I can't believe that TFA is news about what is happening in the real world. I just can't. Someone tell me that it's just a bad joke, two weeks late of "April fools".
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Re:Are you kidding (Score:5, Funny)
I don't know... (Score:5, Insightful)
I can only hope that the judge is elected rather than appointed and that the voters fire him next election. To not lay down sanctions against this agregious behavior is itself sloppy. A lawyer has no more right to be sloppy than a surgeon does.
Re:I don't know... (Score:4, Informative)
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A lawyer has no more right to be sloppy than a surgeon does.
For most surgery, I would agree. But there are certain types of surgery [thisislondon.co.uk] where I believe sloppy work can be instrumental towards helping society to correct an unnecessary infatuation with vanity.
Of course, the "victims" in these cases tend to perpetuate the sue-and-get-rich methodology that has led the RIAA business plan for the last 5 or 6 years.
WTF!?!?!? (Score:5, Insightful)
If this isn't proof positive that our court system is completely wanked, I don't know what is. And people wonder why our society is going to hell in a hand basket.... Kill someone and get off scott free vs. download tunes and go bankrupt paying the fines.
Re:WTF!?!?!? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Isn't that the point of evidence, to bias a jury toward guilt or innocence?
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Second, double jeopardy is a very limited doctrine. It applies only in criminal cases and really only when there has been a trial with a judgment of not guilty on the exact same charge or one that is by nece
Re:WTF!?!?!? (Score:4, Informative)
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As to the common law vs. civil code question, your argument is extremely naive and over-simplified.
The common law permits the law to evolve as each unique case is decided, rather than requiring a legislature to draft a comprehensive code by which all cases must be decided with no exceptions.
Do you really trust a legislative body to write a perfect, comprehensive code more than you trust judges, on average, to make the right decisions bas
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Re:WTF!?!?!? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:WTF!?!?!? (Score:5, Insightful)
To take an extreme example, imagine that one of the Enron executives drove themselves to destitution and was living in a homeless shelter. Just because they're down and out does not excuse them from being prosecuted for any crimes they committed.
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I think you make have your civil and criminal courts confused. I'm not sure exactly how the legal system works where all this is taking place, but in Australia the civil and criminal courts are fairly separate animals. I don't think any of the RIAA action is anything to do with a c
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I think you make have your civil and criminal courts confused. [...] I don't think any of the RIAA action is anything to do with a crime, or even a "crime" (unless you count the actions of the RIAA itself :).
Yes, I think you are correct. In this case, I was the one being sloppy -- with the use of the word "crime". I meant it in a sense that included any action that could be litigated or prosecuted.
Taking a homeless person to court to try and get some money out of them may not be wrong, but it's probably pretty stupid.
Agreed. It's "stupid" unless the litigant has a reason to believe the homeless person could come into some money in the future to pay any judgement that might be awarded.
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I've always wondered... does it work that way? If I sue someone for some amount (say... $1m) and I win, but they don't actually have any money, what happens? Does the debt get written off or if they win the lottery at some point in the future do I get my $1m then?
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I see it's time to update Godwin's law...
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Or just make sure that you are rich.
New case in the works... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:New case in the works... (Score:5, Funny)
Do you mean for stealing the name, or for being boring and unworthy of attention?
to stay one step ahead of the riaa (Score:2)
for indeed, a rolling stone gathers no moss
oh shit! what am i saying?
Translation (Score:4, Insightful)
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
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This could also be a judge being subtle. In six pages he says "You're not evil, just stupid."
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umm (Score:2)
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This just goes to show you... (Score:3, Funny)
Filesharing at the time of not being homeless? (Score:3, Insightful)
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The RIAA gets dumber by the day... (Score:5, Interesting)
1) RIAA physically finds homeless man to sue. Serves with papers.
2) RIAA extorts (er, "offers settlement") to homeless man.
3) Homeless man appears in court for trial, maybe even with pro-bono attorney. (Free heat, maybe even free food. Could judge offer temporary housing--like sequestering a jury???)
4) Homeless man loses case big time, owing hundreds of thousands of $$$.
5) Homeless man declares bankrupcy.
6) Homeless man sues RIAA for mental stress.
Seriously, under what circumstance could the RIAA win? Bragging rights?
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You know the lawyers at RIAA are insane... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:You know the lawyers at RIAA are insane... (Score:4, Interesting)
The Onion may have some of the best satirists around right now, but that doesn't make their job any easier. Not with our current crop of politicians and corporate managers that are competing to outdo the Onion's writers with stories like this.
And it seems that even some judges are taking part in the competition
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The sanction actually is in the ruling... (Score:2)
Legally rendered for all who care to look...
Re:The sanction actually is in the ruling... (Score:5, Interesting)
Further, if thee lawyers bring another flimsy case forward, a review of precedent can show the same lawyer bringing frivolous cases forward in the past and eventually that will lead to harsher punishments by the courts.
And if nothing else, if the lawyer goes for a job with a new firm, then a review of that lawyer's previous cases will show that a judge had it entered into the court record that he/she was incompetent.
God... (Score:4, Funny)
Before everyone gets TOOO upset. (Score:2)
Unslant the posting (Score:2)
"This is the second time this defendant has had his case dismissed without prejudice. The first time was as a joined set of Does after his identity information was revealed to the RIAA goons. The second time was just now here after a failure to serve him properly."
I think we can safely assume they were working with data generated when the g
So apparently... (Score:2)
Really??? Well... (Score:2)
Re:And again... (Score:5, Informative)
Link in parent is malicious. Do not click.
Explanations? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Explanations? (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.matasano.com/log/1032/this-new-vulnerability-dowds-inhuman-flash-exploit/ [matasano.com]
Re:And again... (Score:5, Funny)
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Link in parent is malicious. Do not click.
Re:Doubt? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Trawling (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Trawling (Score:4, Informative)