Stephen Hawking Turned Down Knighthood 201
schliz writes "Professor Stephen Hawking has revealed that he turned down the offer of a knighthood over 10 years ago. The scientist has released correspondence showing that he was approached with the offer of a knighthood but refused it on principle. Professor Hawking has also revealed correspondence showing harsh criticism of what he sees as the UK government's mismanagement of science funding. He is particularly critical of the merger of the Particle Physics and Astronomy Research Council and the Council for the Central Laboratory of the Research Councils."
What do you get with knighthood? (Score:5, Funny)
Lots of women? The ability to do +2 damage? What's the deal and why would someone want it?
Re:What do you get with knighthood? (Score:5, Interesting)
I find it particularly interesting, as I'd backed a Downing Street petition [pm.gov.uk] to get Prof. Hawking Knighted - and the Government response was:
To be fair, as one of the best scientific minds of his generation, it's typically British to ignore him during his lifetime - give it 200 years or so after his death before it'll be realized how important he was.
Re:What do you get with knighthood? (Score:5, Interesting)
Only he wasn't ignored: he refused the honour.
Re:What do you get with knighthood? (Score:5, Insightful)
Only he wasn't ignored: he refused the honour.
Having said that, it is a norm for the UK to have less focus on rewarding people like Prof. Hawking, instead focussing on a popular celebrity - a New Labour way of showing that they are 'in touch' with the populace.
Re:What do you get with knighthood? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Exactly!
I've seen ads (for the equivalent of govt bonds) with Stephen Hawking in them.
If that's not popularity, I do not know what is. =)
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Um... The UK government has been knighting popular celebrities for years.
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And good for him. I already had a lot of respect for him and now it's gone even higher. It's a wise man whose sense of self-worth isn't influenced by titles he's given.
On a slightly related topic, a friend tricked me into going to see "Superhero Movie" last week (I thought we were going to see "Hancock" when she said a spoof superhero movie). It had few enough laughs to begin with, but when they started taking the piss out of Stephen Hawking, they stopped
Re:What do you get with knighthood? (Score:5, Interesting)
Then again, there is a purpose to accepting such honours.
You can return them afterwards as a sign of protest, and it echoes more loudly than simply refusing them in the first place.
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Yes, but it considered particularly rude and offensive to do so.
Many many more people quietly refuse than do so publicly.
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Yes, but it considered particularly rude and offensive to do so.
Yes, that is sort-of the point.
If it were not rude, It wouldn't echo so loudly.
And that is often the only way to make yourself heard.
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How do you "return" knighthood?
Queen: I hereby knight thee, Sir Hawking.
Hawking: [*HMMN*] ve-ry well [*HMMN*] nurse, ex-e-cute plan B.
Nurse: *grabs the sword out of the Queen's hand slices off Queens' right arm*
Hawking: [*HMMN*] oops. that was plan C. [*HMMN*] nurse, you're fir-ed.
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Now that just sounds kinky.
Re:What do you get with knighthood? (Score:5, Interesting)
Stephen Hawking is hardly "ignored". In fact, I'm struggling to think of a physicist less ignored. He's the Lucasian Professor of Mathematics at Cambridge, has had a book stay on the British bestseller list for 5 years, and has been the subject of numerous documentaries, to name a few. If he's as well appreciated 200 years after his death as he is during his life, then he'll have been proved important.
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And... He made a cameo in ST:TNG.
And I am not even mentioning Dilbert.
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To be fair, as one of the best scientific minds of his generation, it's typically British to ignore him during his lifetime - give it 200 years or so after his death before it'll be realized how important he was.
You know that sounds obvious and typical but it's hard to find someone for whom it's true. There are many fine British minds who were contemporaneously perfectly well celebrated (to pick four fields: Orwell, Keynes, Bacon, Crick yes, Hawking) but go back a century or two (for your metric): Maxwell, Brunel (about a century), Watt (a couple) even Newton (a previous Lucasian professor). Even the Kray twins were contemporaneously famous!
In fact I have trouble thinking of an example that fits your claim. Ba
Re:What do you get with knighthood? (Score:5, Informative)
> In fact I have trouble thinking of an example that fits your claim. Basically the key to British (and most) fame is to be famous in your lifetime first.
What about Alan Turing? Of course he is still much better received abroad than in his own country, but he is a perfect example of an unrecognised genius. He was used to win the war, and then dumped like a hot potato.
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Excellent example, thanks!
Re:What do you get with knighthood? (Score:5, Interesting)
A good example, but it seems the exception. The British are usually ready to laud anyone they can. Turing was generally turned away because of his homosexuality and a suspicion that he might be Communist.
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A good example, but it seems the exception. The British are usually ready to laud anyone they can. Turing was generally turned away because of his homosexuality and a suspicion that he might be Communist.
Re:What do you get with knighthood? (Score:4, Insightful)
- He was
: - used to win the war;
- accounted a security risk due to his being an unapologetic homosexual;
- chemically castrated under order of the courts (the alternative being jail);
- he started to grow breasts as a result of the "chemical castration" (a large dose of progesterone IIRC)
; - he started to lose control of his thinking and reasoning capabilities;
- only then was his "dumping like a hot potato" getting properly into gear, so he decided on suicide as being his best option.
If, of course, it was suicide.Honorary knighthoods are insults (Score:2, Interesting)
In my opinion, a knighthood would be an insult to Hawking. He is one of the greatest minds of all time; being Sir Stephen would leave him permanently at the bottom of the nobility scale.
Perhaps that's the point of honorary knighthoods: so that the hereditary nobility can look down on all the great people who have been "honored" and put them in their place.
Re:What do you get with knighthood? (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, it's an honor. It's recognition, which is nice, but which Hawking doesn't exactly need more of.
If Wayne Gretsky was denied membership in the Hockey Hall of Fame, it wouldn't diminish his stature one bit. He might be annoyed at not being inducted, but in truth it's the Hall of Fame that is diminished. If he had a reason to refuse membership, he could do so, knowing of course that he'd effectively have to be in it, because players of the era couldn't be honored without mentioning him.
As far as women are concerned, apparently Einstein had plenty of 'em, and he wasn't exactly physically attractive. I'm sure that if Hawking's equipment is functional, he could use it on a different woman every day if he wanted to. So he doesn't get more women, no. But a lesser luminary might. Consider if you are introduced to a woman as "Dr. So and So, who is a physicist" as opposed to "Sir So and So, the physicist." To the degree being a physicist might move you towards home base (or whatever the cricket equivalent is), I'd imagine the knighthood might get you a bit farther.
Re:What do you get with knighthood? (Score:5, Funny)
You get to move one space to the left or right whenever you walk forward.
The chicks love it.
Re:What do you get with knighthood? (Score:5, Funny)
His wheelchair will now be able to strafe.
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I don't know... David Bowie also turned down a knighthood, I believe... and he married a supermodel.
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You want some Knighthoood? (Score:5, Funny)
(robot voice)"No, you can keep it. I will not risk valorous death for someone who mismanages the government funding of my chosen profession.
"No, you don't understand..."
(loud robot voice)"I SAID KEEP IT!"
Re:You want some Knighthoood? (Score:4, Interesting)
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"Mr Hawking, her Majesty the Queen has personally wanted to offer you the honour of being knighted.
Stephen Hawking (Thought): Sounds great! The highest honour in Britain, I definitely want it!
STephen Hawking (Robot Voice): "The Queen can shove her knighthood up her ass and fuck herself!"
Stephen Hawking (Thought): Oh noes! My mouse is moving by itself!!!!!!
Moral of this story? Have an antivirus.
~Jarik
source of knighthood vs source of funding (Score:5, Interesting)
I thought knighthoods were handed out by the monarch as special recognition of one's accomplishments. It's the queen's way of saying thanks for being such an outstanding citizen. If you have a beef with the prime minister(s) and their budgeting priority that's not the queen's fault. Seems rather rude to slap her thanks down for something she's not in charge of.
Re:source of knighthood vs source of funding (Score:5, Informative)
Re:source of knighthood vs source of funding (Score:5, Funny)
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Informative response... (Score:3, Funny)
Bet this doesn't get modded up, but here goes:
In 1865 the holder of the Christ Church Mathematical Lectureship, one Charles Dodgson, published an amazing childrens book, 'Alice in Wonderland' under the pen name of Lewis Caroll.
The book was a great success, and Queen Victoria was one of his fans. Greatly appreciative, she arranged for an audience with 'Caroll', and insisted that she be provided with a copy of the next book this author would write.
Imagine her surprise when, next year, she was sent a copy of a
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Re:source of knighthood vs source of funding (Score:4, Informative)
Its the govt who decide who gets "honored". The monarch is pretty much just the person who makes the announcement. So, Hawking's "slap" was fairly squarely aimed at Blair and co.
Regarding who honors actually get dished out to, y'know the Darling brothers - Codemasters founders - got honored just recently? Its really not just celebs, musicians and sporty types.
http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2008/06/18/codemasters-founders-honored-by-queen-of-england [arstechnica.com]
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John Lennon's rejection when je was with the Beatles realy hutr the prestige.
So now they ask diplomatically. Steven Hawkins deserves the maximum recognition in the UK but it's great that he doesn't need one from the Queen.
Reading comprehension (Score:5, Informative)
It looks to me as though you're confusing two parts of the article. It's actually talking about two sets of correspondence, one about the knighthood and one about funding disputes. On the knighthood, it says:
So he turned the knighthood down because he dislikes knighthood in principle. That seems like a reasonable position, and a willingness to turn down personal advancement on a matter of principle seems like an honorable decision. The arguments about funding were a separate issue and, apparently, one that came about some time after he turned down the knighthood.
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He may well be against all titles- including Doctor, Professor, Mr and Mrs... I myself sympathize with the view, though I can see it's not practical to try and eliminate them.
He's not trying to eliminate them.
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So, yes. The knighthoods are handed out by the monarch, but that's just a legal fiction. They're actually decided upon by the government of the day.
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it's that they Honor HIM because he's popular and not his WORK. The point of Knighthood is to encourage others to excel also... the funding policies of most governments for pure science activities are pretty anti-science right now, so such and "honor" is a bit of an insult. Put some money up to ensure schools will still be able to teach NEW PHD's in physics in 10 years would be more of an honor.
He would always be welcome here (Score:2)
http://www.perimeterinstitute.ca/ [perimeterinstitute.ca]
They just recently snagged Dr. Neil Turok from Cambridge to serve as the the executive Director - it looks like we will soon have all of England's great physicists
The RIM founder just kicked in another $50 Mil to his pet project:
http://www.perimeterinstitute.ca/News/In_The_Media/Mike_Lazaridis_Donates_Additional_$50_Million_to_Perimeter_Institute/ [perimeterinstitute.ca]
I would love to see Dr. Hawking at their monthly public outreach lectures.
I hate when that happens (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I hate when that happens (Score:5, Funny)
Good for him (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Good for him (Score:4, Insightful)
Much wisdom in that ravaged body.
Re:Good for him (Score:5, Informative)
It is not all advertising. He quietly refused the title ten years ago and this is the first we've heard of it as far as I'm aware. Everything points to this being a point of principle for him, not a means of gaining publicity. I guess you've shown that it sometimes is possible to be too cynical after all.
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Re:Good for him (Score:4, Interesting)
I have to get permission from a queeen before calling someone Sir?
No, you can call anyone "Sir", but only the Queen can make it mean anything.
It's tradition, you know? Although monarchies are now a thing of the past, it was still the only form of government that allowed Europe to survive the endless petty battles and feuds between regional warlords. That constant feuding would have kept us in the dark ages. The concept of the monarch as the overlord with the biggest army (and artillery!) to keep everyone in line brought peace to the lands (and at least confined war to overseas where other people's countries/crops/towns/culture got destroyed instead). That way civilization could begin to flourish.
Re:Good for him (Score:4, Insightful)
Monarchs weren't even decent domestic governors. You can thank Ferdinand and Isabella for the Spanish Inquisition, which set back Spain by hundreds of years. Speaking of the Church, lots and lots of European monarchs were only too happy to waste untold resources and let untold numbers of their citizens die fighting stupid Crusades to "take back" Jerusalem, or kill the wicked Cathar heretics, or what-have-you.
In fact, you didn't see things settling down and stabilizing in Europe until people began to put checks against the power of the monarchy.
Mod parent up (Score:2)
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I read your comment and agree with you. Fair enough - monarchs were cruel bloodthirsty people.
My point however was that before the monarchy you had Lord so and so constantly fighting Count so and so in the next valley/hill/castle, burning the crops, slaughtering the serfs, etc, repeated hundreds of times across the country. The taking of war, pillaging and murder out of everyone's backyard and "doing it" in a series of large battles in a limited area, at least some of the countryside m
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Now if only Americans could come up with checks against the powers of King George Bush.
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Other than the fact that virtually every European monarch indulged in endless petty battles and feuds up until around WWI... sure.
Not to mention, as just one example, the Italian Renaissance occurred during one of the most contentious and war/feud filled eras i
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Yeah, I'm totally sure it wasn't a personal pursuit for power. The royalty back then totally looked out for the little man so that civilization could flourish.
Wait.
Are you an alien?
About the last truly altruistic behavior you can count on is your mother.
And it's not pure cynicism. Beings that pursue things that benefit them and their progeny at the expense of other beings are more likely to succeed and produce equally successful offspring. If nothing else, smacking down your competition is highly benefic
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Why would you want to call anyone "sir," brother? It is an outmoded relic of a disgusting class-system, meant to single someone out as being superior to you. If you live in a system where the term has any meaning, you should throw off your shackles and overthrow those who impose it upon you; and if you live in a system where it is just a holdover from olden times, you should stop using it in favor of something more egalitarian.
Re:Good for him (Score:5, Interesting)
I was told a story about a Pharmacist in a hospital who had his name - 'Dr. Bob Smith' (example) on the door. Now, the hospital forced him to take the Dr off, despite him actually having a doctorate, unlike most of the doctors who have it on their doors in the hospital, because he wasn't a medical doctor and it'd confuse people. I, personally, think that's insane.
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Re:Good for him (Score:4, Informative)
Depends on the country. In the US (and in Canada, I'm pretty sure) the degree which allows you to practice medicine is indeed a doctorate (MD or DO.) I understand that in Britain it's actually a bachelor's degree (BM) and that MD is a title you only get if you do additional research work; the US equivalent is MD/PhD. But in any case, it is a shame that the work "doctor" is so inextricably associated with medicine is most people's minds. Medical doctors have to work very hard to earn their title; so do other kinds of doctors, and all of them should be recognized for it. If you need to make the precise distinction, the right word to use is "physician."
My grandfather, a retired professor of literature (with a PhD, of course) has a number of health problems and often has to call up new hospitals or specialty practices. He always leads the conversation with, "This is Dr. Hardy ..." Amazing how much red tape that can cut through.
That's a COVER STORY! (Score:4, Funny)
The truth is that he has fallen out of favour with the government since Torchwood uncovered evidence that he is working with Davros [b3ta.com].
Personally, I think the government shouldn't be in the business of giving out meaningless awards and I would refuse one on that basis.
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How? (Score:3, Funny)
I can see the problem at the ceremony now:
Queen: "Arise Sir Hawking. Errmmmmm".
It is perfectly understandable (Score:4, Interesting)
A lot of people are refusing knighthoods, because association with our tired, old absurd Imperial rituals is more of a detriment than a benefit to someone who is already famous in their own right.
The people who tend to accept them are the ones whose careers are on the slide anyway.
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So true. [bbc.co.uk]
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A lot of people are refusing knighthoods, because association with our tired, old absurd Imperial rituals is more of a detriment than a benefit to someone who is already famous in their own right.
The real reason he refused. (Score:2)
I Don't Like Titles Either (Score:2)
He probably saw.... (Score:2)
Maybe if he... (Score:2)
took the knighthood, his criticisms would hold more weight!? Just guessing...
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There is a history of refusing the honor in order to make criticisms of UK government policy. In fact, in may be a greater honor to be on the list of people who refuse the title than to be on the list of people who accept it.
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More on those who have refused honors here. [wikipedia.org]
So... (Score:2)
He's more of an anti-elitist, anti-government rebel than Sir Mick Jagger?
Facebook? (Score:2)
Is this old stand new news? (Score:2)
Not that I wish to troll the good Dr. Hawking, but is this the first time it's been known that he turned this down, and for those reasons?
Because if so I'm saddened as that means that his stand, has wasted what could have potentially been 10 years of community momentum taking up the issue that he was highlighting then.
I'm sure people were doing what they could anyway, but it seems like it would have been a wasted PR opportunity.
Re:Ixnay on the Itlestay (Score:4, Insightful)
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I wouldn't mod the parent as Troll it's a valid point and as youthoftoday pointed out Professor is not a title it was earned and 'Sir' is a title, an honor, given to a man.
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Talking to someone representing not themself (the person) but any given role, is, of course, different. As an example, on official occasions most political figures will instruct whomever'
Re:Ixnay on the Itlestay (Score:5, Insightful)
In America, if you're capable of learning, you're supposed to hide the fact. Demonstrating the capacity to learn is guaranteed to get to ridiculed for being a "flip-flopper". It's considered a sign of strength and character to never change you mind no matter what you learn or how circumstances change. :p
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himself, the speech synth, and the wheel chair onto the horse's back. He would be a knight after all. I didn't even get to the part of how he could hold the lance.
This is so trollish that I should ignore it, but I should note that I work with a group of speech-language pathologists, occupational therapists and rehabilitation engineers who would have loved the challenge and it is almost certainly possible to do.
Google "hippotherapy." Creating such a mounting system wouldn't be a completely useless endeavor.
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Not really. He did not claim he refused the knighthood to live the life of a recluse. He just doesn't like titles (and I suspect especially titles related to monarchy). Lenon did the same. If more people follow his example, the value of a knighthood will be diminished (and that's not hypocritical, cos he does not believe the knighthood should have a value)
Re:He is using his knighthood (Score:4, Insightful)
That may have been true if he had done so AT THE TIME. Hawking SILENTLY rejected the knighthood many years ago, but OTHER people have been calling for him to be knighted every year. These constant requests from the public ultimately led to Hawking choosing to end the suspense by just saying that it was HIS OWN decision not to be knighted many years ago and that they can stop pestering the UK government about it.
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Well I guess sarcasm really is a dead art these days.