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GNU is Not Unix Operating Systems Software

Stephen Fry Helps GNU Celebrate 25th Birthday 282

Virgil Tibbs writes "The GNU operating system is turning 25 this year, and the Free Software Foundation has kicked off its month-long celebration of the anniversary by releasing 'Happy Birthday to GNU,' a short film featuring the English humorist, actor, novelist and filmmaker Stephen Fry. In the five-minute film, Fry compares the free software operating system to 'good science' and contrasts it with the 'kind of tyranny' imposed by the proprietary software produced by companies like Microsoft and Apple that it replaces. He encourages people to use free GNU/Linux distributions like gNewSense and free software generally, for freedom's sake."
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Stephen Fry Helps GNU Celebrate 25th Birthday

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  • Stephen Fry... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 02, 2008 @08:42AM (#24841999)
    ...is awesome. A breath of fresh air amongst a smog of thick idiots on UK TV.
    • Re:Stephen Fry... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by gbjbaanb ( 229885 ) on Tuesday September 02, 2008 @08:50AM (#24842145)

      That's no way to talk about Alan Davies, who is after all a foil for Stephen to show how astoundingly clever, witty and educated he is.

    • by allcar ( 1111567 )
      I'm a huge Stephen Fry fan, but I've always understood him to be an Apple fan boy. I can't find any references at the moment, but I'm sure that in his obituary piece for Douglas Adams, he waxes lyrical about Apple and how he and Adams would spend ages discussing Apple's latest gadgets. From memory, he described such moments as "Douglassy".
      • Re:Stephen Fry... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 02, 2008 @09:50AM (#24843241)

        Perhaps he appreciates their aesthetics, and shared such appreciation with Douglas Adams, who preferred them? It's possible to see Apple as both a remarkable design company with an excellent array of well-made gadgets, and equally a tyrannical business who refuses to open their specifications.

        He is, after all, an intellectual, and capable of seeing more than one side to something.

      • Re:Stephen Fry... (Score:4, Informative)

        by Cus ( 700562 ) on Tuesday September 02, 2008 @09:54AM (#24843321)
        He's talked about Open Source a fair bit in his 'Dork Talk' section in the Guardian, with a particular article entitled 'Deliver us from Microsoft [stephenfry.com]'

        "The two great pillars of Open Source are the GNU project and Linux. I shan't burden you with too much detail, I'll just make the outrageous claim that your computer will be running some descendant of those two within the next five years and that your life will be better and happier as a result."
      • by lpevey ( 115393 )

        I think he might be alluding to this in the start of the video when he talks about coming out in support of this platform or that over his years of interest in computing.

      • by Yer Mum ( 570034 )
        Only last month he was waxing lyrical about the Macbook Air on his blog [stephenfry.com] so I'm not that certain that he's suddenly seen the light and has changed to a battered ThinkPad running gNewSense...
    • Re:Stephen Fry... (Score:4, Informative)

      by ockegheim ( 808089 ) on Tuesday September 02, 2008 @10:02AM (#24843463)

      If you're a fan of Mr Fry and haven't read his blog or (especially) heard his podcast you're in for a pleasant surprise if you click his name in the summary above.

      My excuse for not knowing about them until last month is that his presence on Antipodean television is regrettably meagre.

    • by OriginalArlen ( 726444 ) on Tuesday September 02, 2008 @02:41PM (#24848595)

      Thou shalt not question Stephen Fry [youtube.com].

      I'm really delighted to see this. Fry's been on my list of "ten humans most entitled to space on this planet" for a long, long time (since Professor Donald Trefusis, in fact) but his sad devotion to that ancient religion (Apple) has long niggled at me. Welcome to the fold, Stephen, may your code always be Free! :)

  • See that Jerry? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by szo ( 7842 ) on Tuesday September 02, 2008 @08:43AM (#24842023)

    That's the way to do it!

  • gnu site is slow (Score:5, Informative)

    by szo ( 7842 ) on Tuesday September 02, 2008 @08:45AM (#24842067)

    Fortunately, utube have it:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dcxtEKShXA [youtube.com]

    • by Hal_Porter ( 817932 ) on Tuesday September 02, 2008 @09:07AM (#24842457)

      The proper name is Gnu/Tube since it is using Gnu content.

    • by jrumney ( 197329 ) on Tuesday September 02, 2008 @09:40AM (#24843063)
      How did youtube manage to convert it into a proprietary format when it is released under the Attribution-No-Derivative-Works 3.0 License?
      • by _xeno_ ( 155264 ) on Tuesday September 02, 2008 @11:28AM (#24845257) Homepage Journal

        From the Attribution-No Derivative Works 3.0 [creativecommons.org] license page:

        Your fair use and other rights are in no way affected by the above.

        I'd take that to mean that transcoding to place on YouTube is explicitly allowed. In fact, reading the actual license terms, it appears that "webcasting" is explicitly allowed provided the entire clip is included, so I'd take that to mean that transcoding is OK.

        The missing copyright notice and lack of link to the license, on the other hand, would seem to be in violation...

        (Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, and as with all legal advice on Slashdot, this is just mindless speculation by someone who's never taken a law class. Well, except for that one law class I did take, but I can't remember what it was about, so I guess it doesn't count.)

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      Mirrors:

      Thanks to Asheesh Laroia, Tim Dobson, Jason Hoffman, Steve Pomeroy, Matt Mullenweg, FooCorp/Bytemark Hosting and Paul Robinson for providing these mirrors.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 02, 2008 @08:48AM (#24842115)

    Make mine a stiff one Stephen.

  • nuisance (Score:3, Funny)

    by aeiah ( 937509 ) on Tuesday September 02, 2008 @08:53AM (#24842209)
    thank god he's advising the public to use gNewSense instead of something they might find difficult to get along with
  • What OS now? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by mea37 ( 1201159 ) on Tuesday September 02, 2008 @09:00AM (#24842311)

    The GNU OS? What, Herd?

    Oh, we're talking about Linux. You know, I'm not sure if Linus has changed his tune, but last I heard he didn't even like calling it Gnu/Linux (and as he's the kernel's primary author and maintainer, I tend to give his point of view some respect on that issue). Going the extra step and taking Linux out of the name altogether, though, is just plain intellectual dishonesty. Linux is not a GNU OS -- much less "The GNU OS". It is an OS that uses GNU utilities.

    • Re:What OS now? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by jez9999 ( 618189 ) on Tuesday September 02, 2008 @09:18AM (#24842639) Homepage Journal

      Try using Linux without GNU tools.

      Now try using GNU tools on other OSes. Which needs the other more? I'd think erring towards calling 'GNU' is actually more correct, but anyway, if you bothered to listen to the video Stephen does go on to describe Linux and GNU as the two central pillars of the free software movement.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by mea37 ( 1201159 )

        "Try using Linux without GNU tools.

        Now try using GNU tools on other OSes."

        That's exactly the point. The GNU tools are not the OS, and in fact can be used by many OS's, exactly as you say. They are a very nice compliment to Linux, though.

        "Which needs the other more?"

        Note that you can run Linux without the Gnu tools (or any similar toolset); but you cannot run the Gnu tools without a kernel. So, which needs the other more?

        Though you seem to imply it, what you're observing is not a structural dependency of

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by samkass ( 174571 )

        Nothing you said contradicts the parent poster. GNU wrote a lot of utilities, but their attempt at an OS was Hurd and it failed. Linux was created by Linus Torvalds and heavily leverages GNU tools, but is not GNU's OS. The whole point of Free Software, by the way, is for people like Torvalds to be able to copy the source and do wonderful things with it. It's pretty disingenuous to then turn around and assert naming rights over someone else's creation.

    • Re:What OS now? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by TheRaven64 ( 641858 ) on Tuesday September 02, 2008 @09:30AM (#24842851) Journal

      Take a look at the average Linux distribution. Count the total amount of source code from Linux. Now count the total contribution from the GNU project. It's probably somewhere between one and two orders of magnitude bigger. You can trivially replace the kernel. In Debian you can replace the Linux kernel with a FreeBSD kernel with Linux system call compatibility, and no one will notice. Try removing all of the GNU code and see if people still think it's the same operating system. I'm not just talking about the shell (although most 'Linux' init scripts are full of bashisms, so good luck booting without the GNU shell), or the GNU loader (good luck running any programs without that. You could use statically-linked binaries, although that would be hard without the GNU linker). I'm not even just talking about the GNU core utilities (you know, the ones POSIX and SUS say every compliant operating system must include), or the C compiler. I'm not even just talking about GNU libc, which is almost as much code as the kernel by itself. I'm talking about all of these. The things that take a kernel and turn it into a usable system.

      If you really think that the Linux kernel is important, try building a POSIX-compliant system without it. Or don't, just look at any of the half-dozen Free Sofware operating systems which manage it already. Then try building one without any GNU tools. Even Darwin / OS X includes a big chunk of GNU code. I think OpenSolaris can just about function without any GNU code (although the Solaris utilities are so horrible it's only really tolerable with the GNU ones installed over the top). Building a Linux-based system without any GNU code is even harder - I don't know of anyone who has managed it.

      • by Hatta ( 162192 )

        You can trivially replace the kernel. In Debian you can replace the Linux kernel with a FreeBSD kernel with Linux system call compatibility, and no one will notice.

        Cool, can I do that without reinstalling? How?

      • You can trivially replace the kernel.

        With a GNU/FSF kernel? Yeah, yeah, Hurd it before.

    • by Mr.Ned ( 79679 )

      "Linux is not a GNU OS -- much less "The GNU OS". It is an OS that uses GNU utilities."

      GNU/Linux is a GNU OS that uses the Linux kernel and GNU userland (including "utilities" like glibc). There are other GNU OSs that use other kernels with the GNU userland; for example, GNU/kFreeBSD and, yes, GNU/Hurd. There are not other OSs that use the Linux kernel and non-GNU userland.

      The best analogy I have is trucks and engines. Say you have a truck made/assembled/whatever by Dodge that uses a Hemi engine as one o

    • You are correct in saying that Linux is not a GNU OS, because Linux is not an OS. It is a kernel that runs at the center of an OS. In this case, the GNU OS.

      If you use the FreeBSD or OpenSolaris kernels at the heart of GNU, it's still GNU. However, to be fair, we give the respective software communities credit by calling the whole system GNU/[kernel] (or GNU+[kernel]). Why should Linux be any different?

    • by FlyingBishop ( 1293238 ) on Tuesday September 02, 2008 @09:59AM (#24843385)

      Really, the problem is both names are inadequate. However, given the choice, I prefer GNU.

      As a Mennonite, I have a serious problem with anything named after a human being such a central part of my life. It smacks too much of idolatry.

      As a free software advocate, I have a problem with naming such a wide-reaching project with so many contributors after a single man. Something like Debian is a little better, since at least it's a tribute to two people.

      On the other hand, we have an operating system named after a wildebeest. Actually, I was going to end this on a note that something like "humanity towards others" really makes the most sense for a FOSS OS (that would be Ubuntu for those of you just tuning in.) However, Wildebeest sounds like something I could get behind. That's a good name.

  • by Chrisq ( 894406 ) on Tuesday September 02, 2008 @09:03AM (#24842369)
    When I read "The GNU operating system" I thought it meant Hurd. In fact Hurd is only 24 years old, and is evidently still not ready for production use [gnu.org]. When will this baby grow up!
  • by MythMoth ( 73648 ) on Tuesday September 02, 2008 @09:08AM (#24842473) Homepage

    I watched this and felt it was an opportunity lost. While Stephen's presentation was as impeccable as always, the content was distinctly lacking.

    Firstly it was provided in the Ogg format. Yes, I know that's a "free" format, but what it isn't is a populist format. If you want to introduce new people to the tenets of GNU then providing them with a file format that is only used by the faithful is utterly pointless. Multiple formats including ogg would be the only sensible way to do this. I dare say more sensible people will distribute it in other formats, but it's an indicative triumph of pedantry over good sense.

    Then the editing itself was somewhat amateurish. Those cuts to still photographs were pointless, irritating, and somewhat random. Even where they were somewhat pertinent (stephen talking about his first computer) they didn't seem to be correct (I may be wrong, but I doubt he started out with an IBM PC).

    The tedious "Gnu/Linux" thing came up again. The childish demands that we call it that make the FSF look petty. It isn't accurate either - I have at least as much Apache, MIT, Mozilla, and BSD software on this machine as GNU and I'm damned if I'm going to pick a less elegant name just for Stallman's self-aggrandizement. We call it Linux because that's the major distinguishing feature. We'd call it GNU if they'd written a complete operating system. They didn't, so we don't. Get over it.

    Finally as apparently novice users we are pointed to gNewSense, a distribution with virtually no mind-share and little community to support neophytes.

    Loud klaxon, -100 points. Perhaps Alan Davies can take a swing at it?

    • by jez9999 ( 618189 ) on Tuesday September 02, 2008 @09:23AM (#24842727) Homepage Journal

      I loved the fact that they actually described that GNU meant 'GNU is Not UNIX'. Stephen Fry goes on to say that 'it's a bit like Unix, but not quite'. The Windows user is sitting there asking, what the fuck is Unix?

      Oh, and Alan Davies would recommend compiling Slackware with no help from the community as a good way to get started.

      • by MythMoth ( 73648 )

        I loved the fact that they actually described that GNU meant 'GNU is Not UNIX'. Stephen Fry goes on to say that 'it's a bit like Unix, but not quite'. The Windows user is sitting there asking, what the fuck is Unix?

        Yes, I thought that too. It's really a very strange video. Neither a pure "Happy Birthday" nor a particularly well targetted "Welcome to GNU" message.

        Oh, and Alan Davies would recommend compiling Slackware with no help from the community as a good way to get started.

        Now you're frightening me. Stop it...

    • by SmallFurryCreature ( 593017 ) on Tuesday September 02, 2008 @09:27AM (#24842803) Journal

      Because this is about GNU, not linux. There is a very real and important difference. Linux is a kernel, GNU is a set of tools that you can use NOT just with linux but with all sorts of unixes including of course BSD.

      But because a lot of people have no idea about what GNU is, we should pamper to them and call it something completely different, adding a couple of years to a linux distro. If they had celebrated the 25th birthday of Linux you would no doubt be pointing out that linux ain't 25.

      • by MythMoth ( 73648 )

        Because this is about GNU, not linux.

        It wouldn't be about Linux if they hadn't brought up the subject.

        If the FSF want to proudly point to Linux as one of the things that their organisation and license have helped to happen, that's fine by me. If they want to talk about how great GNU is, that's also fine by me.

        Bringing up the GNU/Linux name, however, is at best confusing, at worst petty, and most importantly it's completely unnecessary, nay damaging, in a short video with the ostensible purpose of introducing new people to GNU.

        If they had celebrated the 25th birthday of Linux you would no doubt be pointing out that linux ain't 25.

        Yes, no doubt I w

    • We call it Linux because that's the major distinguishing feature

      No it isn't. Almost no software makes system calls directly. Pretty much everyone goes via libc. Almost no one writes software that is loaded by the kernel either, the loader does it (and on Linux it's the GNU loader). You will find it much harder to port software between Linux with GNU libc and Linux with (for example) uclibc than you will find porting it to FreeBSD with GNU libc[1].

      When you run a 'Linux' program, it first calls the GNU loader, which loads all of the shared libraries and handles all o

    • I clicked on the link and watched it, with the completely stock Firefox 3 included in Ubuntu Hardy. It viewed just fine. I had wondered what video format they would use, since I don't have a Flash plugin (GNASH really isn't there yet). But the viewing experience was completely seamless and crap-free, much better than the experiences I've had watching Youtube.
      • by MythMoth ( 73648 )

        Well, I didn't research it in any depth, but in Firefox on the XP machine that I had to hand this morning it fired up a Java applet which proceeded to de-sync the video from the audio. I guess it was just about watchable (though I'm told the applet crashes the browser on a Vista machine), but I'm pretty dubious about it getting any significant exposure outside of the audience already au fait with GNU in that form.

  • After all, no gnus is good gnus, with Gary Gnu.

    The Gary Gnu Show. [youtube.com]

  • ... and there was me thinking Stephen Fry was your regular computer luddite. Hah! Of course, all he said could have been scripted. 'Lynas Torvalds, or Linus, as SOME people call him'?

    Anyhow, good man, Stephen! Although I can see your average computer user glazing over within about 10 seconds of Stephen mentioning words like kernel and gNewSense.

  • As much as I love Stephen Fry, doesn't the video look like he's just reading some Stallman propaganda? It surely does..
  • Wasn't that an AirBook beside his chair? So why was he bashing Apple then?

    But then at least the Darwin kernel is open source [1] and with MacPorts [2] he could himself a GNU/Darwin open source system.

    Just kidding of course...

    Martin

    [1] http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/ [apple.com]
    [1] http://www.macports.org/ [macports.org]

    • Yes, that is a MacBook Air next to him on the coffee table. That's because Stephen also happens to be one of the Mac's most vocal proponents in the UK (he was the second person to buy a Macintosh, the first being Douglas Adams). Also remember that OS X uses some of the GNU toolchain (including Bash).

      • In know that there are GNU tool OS X and certainly I know about bash. That's because "chsh /bin/zsh" was one of the first commands I typed into "Terminal" once I got my Mac.

        Martin

  • by SmallFurryCreature ( 593017 ) on Tuesday September 02, 2008 @09:22AM (#24842713) Journal
    No, GNU is not strictly speaking an operating system, although the term is vague. Neither is Linux as that is only the kernel and you would find it very hard to operate the kernel without some sort of tool set around it.

    That toolset is what GNU, at first at least was. All the thousands of utilities that people think made up the OS once, in the days of the commandline OS.

    Today it is far more complex, does a graphical shell, such as OSX, Windows, KDE count as part of the OS, or is it program that is run under the OS? Perhaps to make it clear is that until recently Microsoft had the graphical shell run on top of DOS. In the various GNU/Linux distro's this is still the case although quite a few distro's try to hide this by hiding the kernel output so that the user never sees anything but a number of graphical displays until they are in their favorite window manager.

    So depending on your definition of what IS an operating system the statement in the movie that the GNU OS is 25, is correct.

    Car anology, you use the steering wheel to operate the wheels, this is obvious and clear cut, but where you draw the line between the part that control the wheels and the wheels themselves? Is there even a line because you could also say that the wheel+wheels together allow you to control the car.

    But of course, the trolls now are happily hammering on the fact that Hurd is still a dream and that Richard Stallman is claiming things that aren't true. Well they have to of course because they can't put a dent into the fact that GNU tools are an essential part of linux, BSD, OS-X. We forget just how often we use simple GNU tools every day we use one of these operating systems.

    It is like a car nut who thinks the rubber on his wheels is not important.

    25 years ago, when nobody had yet heard of Linus Torvald, long before DRM and the RIAA, one guy had a vision of free software, software not controlled by anyone company but by the community. It was a revolutionary idea in a time when you rented all your computer access and most people still thought computers where things in big boxes that bleeped and one company even thought that the market for the PC could be counted on the fingers of one hand. Long before Microsoft and WGA, Richard Stallman saw that free software might be the only way to give us some measure of control over who owned the information age.

    That is an achievement and something to celebrate. So, the GNU kernel is still missing in action, that is why this movie talks about both GNU the OS and Linux the kernel working together.

    But I suppose it is the nature of trolls to latch onto one tiny details and then blow it out of proportion.

    Congrats GNU, here is to the next 25 years of software free from whatever the likes of Bill Gates and Steve Jobs wish to impose on us next.

  • I hope the Macbook Air next to him is running Free software! This is a major endorsement, well done to all those involved.
  • by Kupfernigk ( 1190345 ) on Tuesday September 02, 2008 @09:22AM (#24842717)
    Alan Fry, physicist and erstwhile manufacturer of control systems. Personally, I suspect all the technical stuff is actually written by Fry Senior...all right, that's unlikely to be true, but in this case the apple has fallen a lot closer to the tree than most people here seem to realise. Esther Dyson doesn't surprise us, why should Stephen Fry?
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by aeiah ( 937509 )
      despite being a tv presenter and writer and having a degree in literature, he did get it from cambridge after all, and can probably get his arty flamboyant mind around something like the concept of free software without the aid of his dad.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      That probably had something to do with it. He's also had some techie friends.

      The only reason one would be surprised is if one didn't know anything about him but the occasional comedy show on telly. He has written loads of columns on techie stuff. Here's [guardian.co.uk] a sample of the stuff he's writing currently. Seriously, this guy is one of us.

  • The uber-geek (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Armakuni ( 1091299 ) on Tuesday September 02, 2008 @09:23AM (#24842729) Homepage
    Fry is rapidly building his geek-cred. He was great friends with Douglas Adams and the Monty Pythons, and now he promotes GNU. And wasn't he a character in some animated geek series?
  • gNewSense is a (Score:2, Insightful)

    stupid name for an OS. Why don't we all agree to use Ubuntu and give linux a hope of cracking the mainstream..
  • What, we are celebrating 25 years of Hurd being in prealpha state?
  • Straight away, they have to spoil things:

    "GNU's kernel wasn't finished, so GNU is used with the kernel Linux. The combination of GNU and Linux is the GNU/Linux operating system, now used by millions. (Sometimes this combination is incorrectly called Linux.)"

    Trying to re-write history ("so GNU is used with the kernel Linux"), while those of us old enough to remember how it really happened are still around, will continue to make them look like petulant children.

  • by Peter Cooper ( 660482 ) on Tuesday September 02, 2008 @09:50AM (#24843251) Homepage Journal

    Note that while he's criticizing Apple, there's a MacBook Air sitting on the table to his right with his prompts.

  • If you want open source only use Debian (and stay away from the non-free parts), otherwise use Ubuntu. Why the hell would anyone want to use gNewSense which is just a hobbled Ubuntu? Maybe there are a few FSF diehards who might but the vast majority will go with Ubuntu or another dist which make pragmatic use of free commercial software when it serves a purpose.
  • by adamofgreyskull ( 640712 ) on Tuesday September 02, 2008 @03:45PM (#24849773)
    How awesome! I actually noticed the other day while over at the FSF website that a "Stephen Fry" was a major contributor/patron and had my suspicions it was him. Not long ago I watched an engaging speech he delivered on the BBC Parliament channel where one of the topics he discussed was technology and the media. To paraphrase: "If I can view something on my computer I can rip it, encode it and bittorrent it". It was the kind of talk that I imagine has Mark Thompson [wikipedia.org] waking in cold sweats..

    All fawning and starry-eyed admiration aside, as an advocate for the cause of software Freedom, you could not wish for a more amenable or erudite man. Legend.

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