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NYCL Responds to RIAA Accusations 231

NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "You may recall that when the RIAA decided to run away with its tail between its legs in the long running Brooklyn case against a home health aide who has never used a computer, UMG v. Lindor, it decided to take some parting shots at the defendant and NewYorkCountryLawyer, asking for 'discovery sanctions,' and blaming them for its inability to prove its case. Today NYCL gave them his response, accusing the RIAA lawyers of persistent misstatements of fact (PDF) throughout their motion papers, and of flouting the rules and misstating the law (PDF). Although the RIAA's motion papers took a number of shots at NYCL's copyright law blog, 'Recording Industry vs. The People,' NYCL confined his response on that subject to a single footnote."
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NYCL Responds to RIAA Accusations

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  • pettyness (Score:5, Funny)

    by girlintraining ( 1395911 ) on Saturday November 08, 2008 @04:45PM (#25689875)

    This kind of behavior is the lawyer equivalent of turning the lights off while someone else is in the bathroom. They probably left the toilet seat up too. Grr. Argh... wet socks.

    • by Sfing_ter ( 99478 ) on Saturday November 08, 2008 @04:59PM (#25689953) Homepage Journal

      if you don't know where your junk is by now - enough to find it in the dark and wipe it, then the utes of this world are in peril.

    • There should be a law stopping the dumb light sensors that make you get out of the stall to trun them back on.

  • Way to go! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Fjandr ( 66656 ) on Saturday November 08, 2008 @04:46PM (#25689877) Homepage Journal

    It's nice to see someone like NYCL take such an in-your-face position against the RIAA's actions and come out on top.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 08, 2008 @04:48PM (#25689891)

    NYCL writes in third person? Anonymous coward approves.

    • by Bieeanda ( 961632 ) on Saturday November 08, 2008 @04:58PM (#25689941)
      All real superheroes do.
      • by Andy_R ( 114137 ) on Sunday November 09, 2008 @07:25AM (#25693789) Homepage Journal

        By day, he's mild mannered lawyer Ray Beckerman, but by night he becomes.... THE UNDERSIGNED!

        • by ScrewMaster ( 602015 ) * on Sunday November 09, 2008 @10:57AM (#25694661)

          By day, he's mild mannered lawyer Ray Beckerman, but by night he becomes.... THE UNDERSIGNED!

          There's no need to fear, Undersigned is here!

          When criminals in this world appear,
          And break the laws that they should fear,
          And frighten all who see or hear,
          The cry goes up both far and near for

          Undersigned, Undersigned,
          Undersigned, Undersigned.


          Speed of lightning, roar of thunder,
          Fighting all who rob or plunder

          Undersigned, Undersigned.

          When in this world the headlines read
          Of those who's hearts are filled with greed
          And rob and steal from those in need.
          To right this wrong with blinding speed goes

          Undersigned, Undersigned,
          Undersigned, Undersigned.


          Speed of lightning, roar of thunder,
          Fighting all who rob or plunder

          Undersigned, Undersigned.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Tubal-Cain ( 1289912 )
      Speaking of which: Why haven't we seen NYCL here for a while? Court gag order or something?
      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by rdnetto ( 955205 )

        He's probably been busy saving the world :)

      • Re:Third Person (Score:5, Informative)

        by NewYorkCountryLawyer ( 912032 ) * <ray&beckermanlegal,com> on Saturday November 08, 2008 @09:27PM (#25691539) Homepage Journal

        Why haven't we seen NYCL here for a while? Court gag order or something?

        I submitted 2 stories on October 28th, one of which got accepted, one of which got rejected. Since then there just hasn't been any Slashdot-worthy RIAA litigation news.

        • I liked your answer to the blog question, but didn't you leave something out?

          h) Plaintiff's counsel's objection to my blog is especially perplexing in light of Plaintiff's multi-million dollar advertising that seeks to convince the public that downloading a song is the moral equivalent of auto theft. Plaintiff also spends a great deal of money lobbying to influence Congress to pass ever more restrictive legislation. It is disturbing that Plaintiff's counsel can feel so threatened by a simple text-based b

  • Footnote (Score:5, Insightful)

    by phantomfive ( 622387 ) on Saturday November 08, 2008 @05:00PM (#25689965) Journal
    In case anyone is wondering what the footnote actually said, here it is on page 17 of umg_lindor_081110DeclarationRB.pdf.

    I decline to enter into a point-by-point rejoinder in defense of my modest foray into "blogging". Suffice it to say that (a) my law blog is irrelevant to the motion, (b) plaintiffs' counsel themselves rely upon the blog in the course of their legal work....(c) many in-house university counsels and student legal services offices refer their students to it ....... (d) many law schools and colleges use it in their curricula ..... (e) many reputable organizations have found the views expressed in it to be worthy of further in-depth consideration...... (f) it has been cited in law review articles.....(g) plaintiffs' counsel are not candid about their real problem with the blog, which is that its existence interferes with their tactic of attempting to conceal the litigation events and prior inconsistent statements they don't want others to know about, from judges, litigants, and law enforcement authorities

    Emphasis mine. He then goes on to give a specific example of why the RIAA hates his blog, basically because it exposes the stupid things they do to the world.

    Must be a fun job to use the law to destroy evil. Kind of like that old movie The Rainmaker. If I were Ray Beckerman, I would feel like I were in a movie.

    • You have to hand it to NYCL, just blogging about the right stuff got their attention, then when they weren't looking he hits back. The RIAA fiasco gets more entertaining all the time. The more they lose, the funnier it gets. I think NYCL just added the laugh track!!

      • Re:Footnote (Score:5, Insightful)

        by BSAtHome ( 455370 ) on Saturday November 08, 2008 @05:24PM (#25690087)

        The RIAA fiasco gets more entertaining all the time. The more they lose, the funnier it gets.

        I disagree that the cases are "funny". The recklessness expressed by the RIAA lawyers and the utter lack of common sense and decency in both professional and private conduct are disturbing. Please remember that the "accused" are scarred for life. Even if all wrongfully sued people get fully compensated, they still lose out because they have been stressed, bashed and abused.

        • Re:Footnote (Score:5, Interesting)

          by phantomfive ( 622387 ) on Saturday November 08, 2008 @05:34PM (#25690153) Journal
          Being stressed, bashed, scarred, and abused is part of life. Everyone has to deal with it. That happens whether you have the RIAA or not. Having a chance to watch the ones doing the abuse get their just results, if not necessarily humorous, is very satisfying.
          • Re:Footnote (Score:5, Informative)

            by symes ( 835608 ) on Saturday November 08, 2008 @05:53PM (#25690283) Journal
            Not so - very high levels of stress can have profound lasting consequences on health (both mental and physical). It is not good. Trouble is that it is hard to measure these lasting consequences.
            • Exactly. You would have to measure the associative spill-over (eg. of "fear equals X") related to the event(s).
              Just because it's harder to detect, mental injury is not less bad than bodily injury.
              Luckily you can fix it today. You can even sue for the loss you had because of it.

              I just hope, that some day, these damages are not able to occur in the first place.

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            Comment removed based on user account deletion
          • by jonaskoelker ( 922170 ) <jonaskoelker@yah o o .com> on Saturday November 08, 2008 @07:01PM (#25690719)

            Being stressed, bashed, scarred, and abused is part of life.

            True, and people should have some amount of thick skin. But...

            When people stress others without caring for their well-being and (more importantly) without a valid reason and do so repeatedly, that's where it becomes chicanery and where I think it's reasonable to step in.

            Whether we're talking about schoolyard bullies or corporate dragnet litigation, there should be some way of stopping chicanery. Lawsuits are not like an abusive spouse: you can't just divorce it.

            Looked at the Skinnerian way, when people harass you, we need you to have some way of punishing them. Otherwise, as symes said (http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1022819&cid=25690283), you become stressed out with bad effects to your health.

            Shame me for using anecdotal evidence all you want; I know what ten years of near-constant bullying can do to you. When you feel universally hated and persecuted, you don't have the most fertile ground for developing social skills; what you do have is fertile grounds for developing social anxiety.

            When on top of the endless bullying your cries for help go unanswered, you learn that you can't rely on anyone when you're in need, that no one cares about your well-being, and that people in practice have the right to mistreat you however they want.

            I do not want to be expected to tell my children that "this is a part of life".

            • Shame me for using anecdotal evidence all you want; I know what ten years of near-constant bullying can do to you.

              Yes. You never really get over it.

          • Re:Footnote (Score:5, Insightful)

            by _Sprocket_ ( 42527 ) on Saturday November 08, 2008 @07:07PM (#25690751)

            Being stressed, bashed, scarred, and abused is part of life.

            Death is also a part of life. Yet we try to avoid it when possible and take a dim view on anyone forcing it on to others.

        • Re:Footnote (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Antique Geekmeister ( 740220 ) on Saturday November 08, 2008 @06:45PM (#25690609)

          Their policy is not to 'make sense'. Their policy is to frighten people. An insane attack dog is more frightening, and in a number of more ways more effective, than a well-trained guard dog to keep people off the territory where you let the dog loose, even if you do not in fact own that territory and have no legal cause to let that dog hurt anyone.

          Plenty of people in the music industry, especially in production and distribution, have mastered this art for many years, against agents, performers, and normal purchasers. This is just another form of the 'trial by champions' or effectively 'trial by mercenaries in suits' that legal systems have provided since the time of the crucifixion of Jesus and Pontius Pilate washing his hands of the mess.

          • Their policy is not to 'make sense'. Their policy is to frighten people. An insane attack dog is more frightening, and in a number of more ways more effective, than a well-trained guard dog to keep people off the territory where you let the dog loose, even if you do not in fact own that territory and have no legal cause to let that dog hurt anyone. Plenty of people in the music industry, especially in production and distribution, have mastered this art for many years, against agents, performers, and normal purchasers. This is just another form of the 'trial by champions' or effectively 'trial by mercenaries in suits' that legal systems have provided since the time of the crucifixion of Jesus and Pontius Pilate washing his hands of the mess.

            Here, let me condense that for you: Might Makes Right.

        • Re:Footnote (Score:5, Interesting)

          by NewYorkCountryLawyer ( 912032 ) * <ray&beckermanlegal,com> on Saturday November 08, 2008 @09:08PM (#25691447) Homepage Journal

          I disagree that the cases are "funny". The recklessness expressed by the RIAA lawyers and the utter lack of common sense and decency in both professional and private conduct are disturbing. Please remember that the "accused" are scarred for life. Even if all wrongfully sued people get fully compensated, they still lose out because they have been stressed, bashed and abused.

          Very, very true. You were deservably modded to +5.

      • Well, this really goes to the truth of the matter. When the RIAAs attempt to go after someone who isn't legally stupid, they find that they aren't as bright as they think they are. BTW when I say legally stupid, I mean not a lawyer or even a good one that can offer sound advice across the range of arguments being thrown at a person. The average person is legally stupid and should defend themselves even though they have that right.

        I'm not sure I like calling it funny. It is more like so sad that you have to

    • actually, it would make a nice feel-good family movie. ;-)

    • Must be a fun job to use the law to destroy evil. Kind of like that old movie The Rainmaker. If I were Ray Beckerman, I would feel like I were in a movie.

      I'm sure Charlie Nesson feels that way too. If Nesson wins, it just about pulls the rug out from under ALL of the **AA [plexipages.com] lawsuits. Go Charlie! Go Harvard!

    • In case anyone is wondering what the footnote actually said...

      RTFA!

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      In case anyone is wondering what the footnote actually said, here it is on page 17 of umg_lindor_081110DeclarationRB.pdf.

      I decline to enter into a point-by-point rejoinder in defense of my modest foray into "blogging". Suffice it to say that (a) my law blog is irrelevant to the motion, (b) plaintiffs' counsel themselves rely upon the blog in the course of their legal work....(c) many in-house university counsels and student legal services offices refer their students to it ....... (d) many law schools and colleges use it in their curricula ..... (e) many reputable organizations have found the views expressed in it to be worthy of further in-depth consideration...... (f) it has been cited in law review articles.....(g) plaintiffs' counsel are not candid about their real problem with the blog, which is that its existence interferes with their tactic of attempting to conceal the litigation events and prior inconsistent statements they don't want others to know about, from judges, litigants, and law enforcement authorities

      Emphasis mine. He then goes on to give a specific example of why the RIAA hates his blog, basically because it exposes the stupid things they do to the world. Must be a fun job to use the law to destroy evil. Kind of like that old movie The Rainmaker. If I were Ray Beckerman, I would feel like I were in a movie.

      Well if (a) I was getting paid like Jack Nicholson and (b) my clients weren't being hounded by Dracula... it would be fun.

      But since it's the real world, I can't honestly say it's fun. To have to read their lies was very upsetting. Correcting each and every one was grueling. The fun part was getting done, and making short shrift of their massive deception.

  • 'With Prejudice' (Score:3, Interesting)

    by radimvice ( 762083 ) on Saturday November 08, 2008 @05:01PM (#25689971) Homepage

    We here at Slashdot hope you get the RIAA to cover the bill for your hard work!

    If not, just post a few more stories here and the ad revenue should cover it.

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by belmolis ( 702863 )

      More than that, I hope someone will make a movie about this. I gather that Marie Lindor doesn't look a lot like Julia Roberts, but I'm sure the movie people can figure out the casting.

      • Get the guy from a a few good men and set it up in a court-martial over a case like this.

        • by cp.tar ( 871488 )

          Get the guy from a a few good men and set it up in a court-martial over a case like this.

          How would NYCL react to his being cast as Jack Nicholson?

      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by sumdumass ( 711423 )

        I think if they made a movie about it, it would be fun to download... You know, just for shits and giggles after you watched it in the theator.

  • One man army? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 08, 2008 @05:08PM (#25690005)

    Here's a guy who has single handedly changed my opinion of lawyers. Certianly he has friends here, I'd give him a dollar. But at the same time his existence speaks badly of other lawyers. The question is: Why are there not more like him? We all recognise the RIAA are effectively an extorion racket. Why do more not speak up and take on these criminals? Leading by example may not be enough. If I were NYCL my focus would be converting more of my peers, raising an army against the RIAA. A one man battle is heroic and all, but sooner or later we all need help. It's time other lawyers saw which way the wind is blowing and get behind this leader.

    • Re:One man army? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 08, 2008 @05:15PM (#25690035)

      There are many, many others like him. The difference is they aren't on Slashdot and they don't make the paper.

      It's also a pick your fights type of thing. Not every good lawyer is going to be fighting the RIAA. It's where their interest and abilities lie.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Machtyn ( 759119 )
        Many times attorneys like NYCL, also have to fight bad judges. There are those that don't know the law, have something against the defendant, plaintiff or attorney, or are activists on some subject. These judges are impossible to deal with and an attorney has tread lightly in the "judges" courtroom.

        I recently had my brother go through something like this where the law was completely in his favor on an adoption case, but the judge didn't like the birth mother and ruled for the birth father (who failed to
      • Re:One man army? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by darkmeridian ( 119044 ) <william.chuang@g ... m minus language> on Sunday November 09, 2008 @09:49AM (#25694337) Homepage

        There are lawyers taking on the entire military tribunal process down there in Gitmo. Oh, and these guys are defending people who probably killed American soldiers. Oh, and they're career military officers who probably flushed his career down the tubes to make an unpopular stand.

        There are good guys everywhere if you only wanted to look.

    • Re:One man army? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by PDG ( 100516 ) <pdg@webcrush.com> on Saturday November 08, 2008 @05:20PM (#25690059) Homepage

      As much as I respect NYCL, the reason you don't see more like him is that it doesn't pay. Being noble is difficult when it effects your ability to feed your kids.

      I laud his efforts, but he is a jewel in the rough.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Dun Malg ( 230075 )

        ..he is a jewel in the rough.

        Nah, a "jewel in the rough" is more like a dirty looking tradesman that turns out to look fantastic in a tux and can quote Chaucer to the upper crust folks at the charity benefit. "A gem among the rocks" is probably more what you're looking for.

    • Here's a guy who has single handedly changed my opinion of lawyers.

      While he certainly is the prime example of fighting the good fight, and looks at bit lonesome, I wouldn't overlook the work of Eben Moglen. He's an excellent public speaker, and I remember seeing a video interview ('ish thing) where he talks about his past as a techie.

      There's also Lawrence Lessig, who also shares some of the slashdot groupthink values. He's trying to change the world in a direction I'd like to see it go in. Maybe I want to go longer than him, but I still consider him a good guy and on my

    • by dbIII ( 701233 )
      For some reason Lawyers in the USA are demonised as being party to the crimes the people they defend commit or as being evil Disney movie Grand Vizier types. People should remember that life is not always like the movies. If you want the rule of law and not mindless vigalante action then you need people to defend every case, no matter how horrible. Unfortunately there are a lot of people that really do think that Taliban style law enforcement is the way to go - there you don't need lawyers just a pile of
    • Re:One man army? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by NewYorkCountryLawyer ( 912032 ) * <ray&beckermanlegal,com> on Saturday November 08, 2008 @11:32PM (#25692155) Homepage Journal

      If I were NYCL my focus would be converting more of my peers, raising an army against the RIAA.

      That really has been my focus. The purpose of the blog was to empower other lawyers. Since I started it, more and more lawyers have come into the fold. I give them free listings in my "Directory of Defense Lawyers" and we try to help each other whenever we can. Are there enough lawyers doing it? No. But more and more are coming into the fight.

  • by Jane Q. Public ( 1010737 ) on Saturday November 08, 2008 @05:19PM (#25690057)
    Sounds like a pep rally cheer, doesn't it?
  • by Kierthos ( 225954 ) on Saturday November 08, 2008 @05:27PM (#25690117) Homepage

    We salute you, sir.

  • by d_jedi ( 773213 ) on Saturday November 08, 2008 @05:42PM (#25690215)

    "You may recall that when the RIAA decided to run away with its tail between its legs in the long running Brooklyn case against a home health aide who has never used a computer"

    Maybe I'm thinking of a different case, but I thought Lindor decided to settle?

  • by Nom du Keyboard ( 633989 ) on Saturday November 08, 2008 @06:17PM (#25690421)
    Any judge these days who buys into the RIAA's bullshit as an absolute moron and should be impeached immediately for a lack of reasoning ability and common sense. These cases, all based on illegal investigations and no valid legal foundation, along with outright lies in the testimony of their sole "expert" at the ex parte John Doe joined subpoena phase should be stopped at that moment.

    It is more than well known that the RIAA method is highly flawed and they have often demanded subscriber information for IP addresses that never existed in the ISP's log. Those are easy to filter out. The real damage comes when the IP address supplied is wrong, but valid to another user. The RIAA admits no error in their procedures and pursues many innocent people.

    But the real blame is the idiot judges who seem incapable of understanding that the RIAA is using the court system in ways it was never intended to be used. It's the very same thing that Direct TV (may they rot in Hell) did only a few years earlier. These judges are apparently seduced that the RIAA members are losing billions of never proven dollars to filesharing and that somehow this must be redressed in trials that never seem to happen. I couldn't think less of the judges in too many of these cases, and am not alone in this regard.

    There, that felt great!
    • Any judge these days who buys into the RIAA's bullshit as an absolute moron and should be impeached immediately for a lack of reasoning ability and common sense.

      Any judge who decides on anything other than the evidence presented to them should be impeached immediately for breach of professional standards.

  • by Hierarch ( 466609 ) <CaptainNeeda.gmail@com> on Saturday November 08, 2008 @06:46PM (#25690617) Homepage

    NYCL, I'm surprised. With all of the egregious conduct you're documented, I'm surprised you're just making a declaration in opposition rather than a motion of your own for sanctions under FRCP 11(c)(2). Is your reasoning something you can share with us, or shall we just watch the master in action? ;-)

    • by NewYorkCountryLawyer ( 912032 ) * <ray&beckermanlegal,com> on Saturday November 08, 2008 @09:16PM (#25691481) Homepage Journal

      NYCL, I'm surprised. With all of the egregious conduct you're documented, I'm surprised you're just making a declaration in opposition rather than a motion of your own for sanctions under FRCP 11(c)(2). Is your reasoning something you can share with us, or shall we just watch the master in action? ;-)

      Can't comment on that.

      Here's [cornell.edu] a link to Rule 11.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Alsee ( 515537 )

        I think the key point is here:
        A motion for sanctions under [] shall not be filed with or presented to the court unless, within 21 days after service of the motion (or such other period as the court may prescribe), the challenged paper, claim, defense, contention, allegation, or denial is not withdrawn or appropriately corrected.

        It's a safe harbor clause for lawyers. You have to warn someone that you believe they have committed a rule 11 violation and then give them three weeks to fix it (or however long the

  • by TheVelvetFlamebait ( 986083 ) on Saturday November 08, 2008 @10:46PM (#25691953) Journal

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0486358/ [imdb.com]

    I felt a mixture of nausea, crushing fear, despair, and helplessness as I watched evangelist children being brainwashed into thinking the devil was controlling the evil government (until Bush, that is), that the government was trying to take Jesus away from them by taking him out of schools, and that their "time" would come.

    These days I get the same feeling from reading Slashdot posts on the RIAA.

After all is said and done, a hell of a lot more is said than done.

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