What Has Fox Got Against Its Own Sci-Fi Shows? 753
brumgrunt writes "Dollhouse. The Sarah Connor Chronicles. Fringe. Three science fiction shows that Fox commissioned, put on the air, and — in the case of at least one of them — has won rave reviews. But why does it seem that Fox is trying to kill some of its own shows with crazy scheduling decisions? How can Fringe survive after being pulled for two months, and what hope is there for Sarah Connor and Dollhouse on a Friday night?"
Duh, what's new? They're Fox (Score:5, Insightful)
Fox is NOTORIOUS for not sticking with their series (and have been for at least 15 years now). I can name a dozens of great shows just off the top of my head that they've abandoned over the years (usually after moving them around, not promoting them, etc.). In the new millenium, they've gotten even worse. They will cancel series now before they even finish a full season, even if they have the season already "in the can" (Firefly and Wonderfalls are two prime examples). Basically, if you agree to do a show for Fox, you better go into it knowing that it's probably not going to last long (count yourself lucky if they don't pull the plug after just a few episodes have aired).
I once heard an explanation of why networks do this sort of thing. There is a lot of executive turnover at networks, and when a new programming exec comes in, the first thing he wants to do it to advance his own projects. You see, on his own pet projects, he gets to take full credit for them if they succeed. But if one of his predecessor's pet projects succeeds, he doesn't get to take any credit for it. That means that incoming execs have every motivation to kill off all their predecessor's projects (no matter how sucessful they may be) to make room for their own. So they will often take a show that is successful and start fucking around with it, just so they can justify cancelling it. You take your predecessor's big show, move it around to a shitty night, force a bunch of stupid "notes" down the show-runner's throat ("Hey, can you bring in a sassy robot? How about a cute, wise-cracking kid?"), and then don't promote it at all. Bingo! The show's ratings tank, and you get to go before the studio president and say "Gee, look's like my predecessor's show didn't have any legs. Now let me tell you about *MY* great new show..."
Judging by how much this happens at Fox, apparently they have a *LOT* of turnover.
Oh, and a special R.I.P. to my beloved "Strange Luck," [wikipedia.org] cancelled after just 17 episodes.
Re:Duh, what's new? They're Fox (Score:5, Insightful)
Seems this would be a good opportunity for some bright young exec to step up and run with some succesful shows that are already in place, and get himself some recognition as the guy who didn't kill the good shows. But then, we don't have time for rational solutions.
Re:Duh, what's new? They're Fox (Score:5, Funny)
Do we have time to make a batch of Torgo's Executive Powder?
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Do we have time to make a batch of Torgo's Executive Powder?
Torgo's busy, taking care of the place while The Master is away.
Re:Duh, what's new? They're Fox (Score:4, Funny)
This is fox remember... there is nothing rational or thoughtful about it.
It is fair and balanced however.
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"We distort, you deride."
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Re:Duh, what's new? They're Fox (Score:5, Funny)
Fox, cancelling more sci-fi? Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!
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i hear ya.... personally, i think one of the reasons the executives cut so much good programing is because of the messages they carry.
firefly came off as a fairly anti-christian, anti-government, pro-confederate, pro-crime TV sci-fi/western.
FOX's focus seems to be mainly on entertaining, not educating, and certainly not on encouraging intellectual conversation.
ps: i'm currently watching FF for the first time.
Re:Duh, what's new? They're Fox (Score:4, Interesting)
Alright I took time to read the article, and I think it's just a lot of FUD. After all, Terminator and Dollhouse have not been canceled yet. And Friday is not automatically a death slot:
Millenium - three year run
Sliders - three year run on FOX plus two more on SciFi
X-Files - a little known show of moderate repute that lasted 11 seasons
Now granted FOX is known for canceling scifi and fantasy shows throughout the 90s, however Joss Whedon said himself that those execs are long gone. The new executives are willing to stand behind their shows and let them grow, especially if the show has a strong online following, as is the case with Fringe, Terminator, and Dollhouse. Bottom Line: I'm not concerned.
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Because they'd be very unlikely to get the cast back together what with Summer Glau, Nathan Fillion, and Adam Baldwin pulling in paychecks on Terminator: The Sarah Conner Chronicles, Castle and Chuck respectively.
They'd probably be able to do a spinoff but I'm not sure how/who they'd follow for it but
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Re:Duh, what's new? They're Fox (Score:5, Funny)
The bright young execs are too busy managing to keep the "fair" away from the "balanced" over at the Fox News department, lest they meet and annihilate each other in a blissfully exothermic reaction.
Re:Duh, what's new? They're Fox (Score:4, Funny)
Please no!
That would mean that the roaches and the network execs would survive the zombie apocalypse. Can you see what kind of place the world would be? Those poor roaches. Think of the bugs!
And Futurama (Score:5, Insightful)
There is a lot of executive turnover at networks, and when a new programming exec comes in, the first thing he wants to do it to advance his own projects.
That does not suffice for an explanation. You see, they must notice that the longer you leave a show in a solid time slot the more your established viewership watches it. Case in point: Futurama. I liked the show but I never knew when it was on so I often missed it when it was on the air. They moved it around to death!
... but I'm not inclined to believe Fox has savvy executives in this respect. For all I know, they're moving around shows based on the number of complaints that are filed with the FCC from conservative Christian groups.
Even if they had put it on Saturday at 2pm I would have known when to watch it. Adult Swim is much the same--bad time slot but I know when it's on so I always watch it. Their shows get moved around way too much and as a result, it's harder for me to grow attached to any one show in a solid time slot.
And don't tell me Fox doesn't know this, their syndication of The Simpson all through high school at 5 & 5:30 on weekdays was very popular. No, I attribute this to just sheer stupidity--maybe even the logic that if they move it around they will collect more viewers who normally don't watch the regular time slots.
You would think thorough statistics would solve this problem
I heard the Futurama folks were looking at doing another TV slot but were just too jaded from their Fox experience to wanna start it again. I think they should get into their contract a solid time slot on a day to ensure success. I wouldn't blame them if they opted to go the straight to DVD route forever or try to work something out with Comedy Central.
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Success for the network does not mean success for the executive. While the network may thrive from an excellent show in an excellent time slot, the executive does not if he is not responsible for the show. The only reason Simpsons wasn't moved around is because whoever moved it would be committing career suicide.
Re:And Futurama (Score:5, Insightful)
And they wonder why people P2P TV episodes.
If it's easier to look for a torrent, and download it than to just sit on a couch and watch your favorite show, then the TV people are doing something wrong.
Maybe Fox pays less to Futurama (and any other show) for the first X episodes, then they start having to pay more? If that's the case then that might explain why they'll keep trying to churn shows.
But on the flipside, most US TV series don't appear to really have "proper" endings, unlike many Japanese anime. So not sure how that works out.
Maybe if Fox wants churn, they should start encouraging TV shows that end, and end properly as part of the arc, rather than something thrown together.
Re:And Futurama (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe if Fox wants churn, they should start encouraging TV shows that end, and end properly as part of the arc, rather than something thrown together.
It would be nice for shows to have story arcs that end in a satisfying way, but that conflicts with the desire to make as much money as possible. As long as a show is popular, it will stay on the air. If its original story arc was only for 1 or 2 seasons, that arc will be extended indefinitely, or a new arc will be started.
Even shows that were advertised as being a complete story arc ended up being stretched well beyond what they were originally intended for (see: Lost). Of course, that sort of thing usually ends up decreasing the quality of the show, which tends to mean that show will drop viewers. If it drops enough viewers, the show will be canceled before it can complete its (expanded) arc.
The only way a show can reasonably expect to complete its storyline in a satisfying way is if a.) its storyline is not bound by time, so it could be wrapped up within, say, half a season at any point, and b.) the show is so wildly popular that it can keep going until the producers themselves decide it's time to wind it down. Very few shows meet those criteria, and so most shows end up dying without finishing the story.
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Shows with a story arc must be shown in the same slot religiously. Imagine you missed a few episodes of Bleach. Would you even try to continue watching it? When your audience has to "work" to keep up with the show because you keep rotating it around your schedule, they soon won't bother with it. Maybe you'll get a few die-hard fans to study your schedule to ensure they won't miss a thing, but die-hard fans are of no interest to network execs. They want ratings.
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Shows with a story arc must be shown in the same slot religiously. Imagine you missed a few episodes of Bleach. Would you even try to continue watching it?
People with money who are interesting to advertisers who are the actual customers of television (you are the product) tend to have PVRs so they can watch a show if they miss it. People like you who miss a show and then don't follow it are clearly not the advertisers' bitch, thus not worth wasting advertising dollars on, thus not worth pleasing. The mass media industry does not give one fuck about you and will not miss you if you go away.
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Shows with a story arc must be shown in the same slot religiously. Imagine you missed a few episodes of Bleach. Would you even try to continue watching it?
People with money who are interesting to advertisers who are the actual customers of television (you are the product) tend to have PVRs so they can watch a show if they miss it. People like you who miss a show and then don't follow it are clearly not the advertisers' bitch, thus not worth wasting advertising dollars on, thus not worth pleasing. The mass media industry does not give one fuck about you and will not miss you if you go away.
Uhhh, except that people with PVRs are more likely to just fast-forward through those precious commercials, which is something advertisers are not so fond of. If you want me to see the commercials, it has to be on live TV so I can't fast-forward, and it has to be in a consistent timeslot so I can put it on my calendar and arrange my schedule around it.
A better explanation is that they're catering to people who will just turn on the TV and watch whatever happens to be in front of them, who don't really care
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The day that a significant number of viewers realize this, turn more to the Internet for their shows (for time convenience), and stop watching TV (because it'll be pointless) is the day that the mass media industry starts to care.
It'll never happen. The mass media caters to the masses. Humans are pack animals, they are wired to follow a strong leader. Television gives the appearance of being that leader, it never wavers in its resolve. In the USA and most of the world, the 60Hz carrier wave and thus refresh is an Alpha wave generator and makes you even more susceptible to suggestion; another fine reason to have a non-CRT television since none of them have a 60Hz anything-but-retrace - and often, that isn't really 60Hz either, althou
Re:And Futurama (Score:5, Insightful)
People love a show with a clear and ending arc. What it really opens up for is a chance to make a new show to build off where that arc ended.
A strong example of this was the BBC series Life On Mars. It was two seasons, of eight episodes each. Every episode was practically a movie and could still be enjoyed standalone (though not as much as if you were following it regularly). What upset me about it being remade in America is that I knew that it would be dragged out as long as ratings were good but most likely cancelled before the story was finished.
As it is the American show has been cancelled but not before they completed more episodes than the BBC series. So, for roughly the same amount of screentime they rolled the dice and lost. They could have concentrated on something solid and memorable but instead it became a cheap franchise.
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I don't think you can regard British series as an example of anything on this subject. The pressures are very different , especially on the BBC where advertising revenue is not a factor. Short and sweet tends to be the yardstick. some of the best BBC series had very short runs. Fawlty Towers: 12 episodes, Blackadder: 24 episodes, The Office: 14 episodes including a two part Christmas special. Those are three of the greatest sitcoms ever to grace British TV screens. Perhaps they are so good because the
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"They moved it around to death!"
And they wonder why people P2P TV episodes.
If it's easier to look for a torrent, and download it than to just sit on a couch and watch your favorite show, then the TV people are doing something wrong.
To be fair, it's not easier if you have a DVR. Which a lot of people do, and the networks know that. There's not as much loathing of moving things around on the schedule anymore because the execs know that DVR's will find these shows automatically, so they're not as concerned about the con of potential audience loss anymore. The potential benefits outweigh the risks now.
In a sense, executives are doing what people here have always said they should do, which is moving away from schedule-based programming
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This is one of the things that sold me on TiVo the first year I had it. I added "The Tick" to my season pass and it got every episode regardless of where Fox moved it to. Trying to keep up with scheduling moves that Fox makes is a nightmare.
As for Futurama, at the end they stuck it on Sunday night at 7pm. At best you got to see the show already in progress because of football running long.
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Same reason music execs continue to act as they do:
Their medium has (for as long as THEY can remember) been the way it is NOW, and it's going to STAY THAT WAY.
Let's follow a TV executives train of logic and actions:
1. Something worked in the past.
2. If it worked in the past, it will always work at any time.
3. If it doesn't work, blame rivals/Internet/liberals
4. Make random, unnecessary changes, to line-up, encourage shows on-air to add more sassy, one-line spewing half-dressed women in gun-fights, even if i
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Those 5 o'clock Simpsons episodes were programmed by your local station (which may have been a Fox station), not by Fox.
Re:And Futurama (Score:4, Insightful)
Let's blend the two logics together.
a) Show A is your favorite and it has pretty neat ratings on its current slot because people finally found out when it would be.
b) Show B is new exec's pet project.
Cue exec train of thought: "Hmm... That slot of Show A must be really good because it has killer ratings with the audience I want for my pet project..."
The fallacy is that it's not the slot but the show that makes the ratings. Once you get a network exec to realize that, we might see more shows keep their slot and survive.
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Yeah really. With my TiVo I don't have the slightest clue what time most shows are on, or even what network (if it's not obvious). I just go "Oh, it's Saturday, that means I have the new BSG from last night!"
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OTOH, I'm not sure if hulu counts as viewership to the networks, though - I've read that online programming isn't making much money compared to regular tv.
Re:And Futurama (Score:5, Interesting)
MM: You describe Murdoch has having almost a kind of attention deficit disorder -- he gets obsessed with something for two or three years, then forgets all about it and moves onto something else. Recently, he's been taking a lot of criticism for his fixation on newspapers. Is it just a phase?
PL: That one I think is going to be a little more difficult for him to outgrow. Clearly he did kind of have that phase with satellite television and with online media...but with newspapers, simply because it is a business he grew up in, it may be a little harder for him to let go that infatuation, especially since The Wall Street Journal is something he's hungered for for at least two decades. Anything that's a kind of ego-driven type of media business, which in many cases books and newspapers are, it may be difficult for him to give that up even if it's not fiscally a growing part of his business.
Re:And Futurama (Score:5, Insightful)
You would think thorough statistics would solve this problem ...
Here's my experience with statistics in a corporate environment.
YOU: Sir, our team has completed our month-long analysis of the economic data. We've done preliminary data analysis, removed outliers, run a Pearson error test, t-interval hypothesis tests, and a Chi-square analysis. The confidence interval is (95%: 45.1 to 52.8) and you can see that in contradiction to your earlier theory, our findings are very strongly correlated, with P-value 0.0026.
EXECUTIVE: Yeah, fuck off.
Re:And Futurama (Score:5, Funny)
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The fact that so many great shows have been canceled on Fox over the years and yet MadTV somehow KEEPS GOING ON AND ON FOR SOME INEXPLICABLE REASON was what finally turned me into an atheist.
Good news, Everyone! I just found out that they were announced to be canceled [variety.com] in November 2008.
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Btw, Mad TV just got canceled:
http://www.variety.com/VR1117995723.html [variety.com]
God loves you!
Re:And Futurama (Score:5, Funny)
Maybe they put the SciFi shows on Friday nights because they think that the target audience doesn't have a social life and would take a break from their MMORPG or D&D game to watch an hour of TV and give the previous time slot to something that the mainstream audience.
Hey, I asked my DM if we could break for Dollhouse the last couple of weeks, and he correctly pointed out that I didn't have my priorities in order!
Re:Duh, what's new? They're Fox (Score:5, Funny)
Peter: Everybody, I've got bad news. We've been cancelled.
Lois: Oh, no! Peter, how could they do that?
Peter: Well, unfortunately, Lois, there's just no more room on the schedule. We've just got to accept the fact that Fox has to make room for terrific shows like Dark Angel, Titus, Undeclared, Action, That 80's Show, Wonderfalls, Fastlane, Andy Richter Controls the Universe, Skin, Girls Club, Cracking Up, The Pitts, Firefly, Get Real, FreakyLinks, Wanda at Large, Costello, The Lone Gunmen, A Minute With Stan Hooper, Normal, Ohio, Pasadena, Harsh Realm, Keen Eddie, The $treet, American Embassy, Cedric The Entertainer, The Tick, Luis and Greg the Bunny.
Lois: Is there no hope?
Peter: Well, I suppose if all those shows go down the tubes, we might have a shot.
Re:Duh, what's new? They're Fox (Score:5, Funny)
whooosh
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It is funny, because that was the joke. That script is from when Family Guy went back on the air.
Re:Duh, what's new? They're Fox (Score:5, Funny)
Except you didn't say it properly. Here, let me fix it for you!
[FUNNY-FOREIGN-ACCENT]
Ees funny, because all shows are now off air!
[/FUNNY-FOREIGN-ACCENT]
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Yes you should know better especially since often a series can be cancelled in the sense that the network won't be ordering further episodes, rather than in the sense that they are yanking the show from the lineup that day.
For instance, Firefly was canceled after episode 11, but went on to make three more to finish the contract. If you buy the DVD's you can listen to the commentary for episode 12 where they talk about how some of the shots reflect that.
Re: Firefly (Score:5, Informative)
1. Friday night scheduling.
2. Airing the episodes out of order.. I mean HELLO ?? The order was 2, 3, 6, 7, 8, 4, 5, 9, 10, 14, 1; with 11 â" 13 unaired
The wikipedia entry for Firefly contains more detailed criticism of Fox for their treatment of this series. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Firefly_episodes [wikipedia.org]
Fox is definitely the last place you want to try out a new series. It's hard to start watching a new series on their network, knowing their track record for killing off anything that might be halfway decent.. Why bother getting interested in a show that won't be around tomorrow ?
Dollhouse is no Firefly (Score:4, Insightful)
I wouldn't blame them for pulling it. Episodes 1-2 were terrible. 3 was bearable, yet only because of a plot twist. Episode 4 actually went somewhere, finally had some of the clever banter between characters that made Firefly special. Finally starting to care about what happens to them.
I'd say it's entirely Joss's fault if Fox wants to cancel it. I have better things to do than watch garbage like eps 1-2. Had I not gotten bored and ended up watching Ep3, I would have left and never come back. We know what Joss is capable of, and this certainly isn't it.
Re:Dollhouse is no Firefly (Score:5, Interesting)
But yes, Dollhouse is no Firefly, due to Dr. Dusku's Horrible acting ability, and the fact that the only real "character" is the programmer guy. A blank slate is not a character.
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Dollhouse is no Firefly (Score:5, Insightful)
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Do you understand why these things are called "priceless"?
Yes. You do realize that 'priceless' art objects are bought and sold quite regularly, and most are insured as well. Both require that a price be agreed upon.
I'm frankly not entirely sure where the Elgin Marbles were in the Dollhouse, nor who the 'client' was. But, if it was indeed Greece, and they were being stolen from the Britsh Museum (where they actually currently are) and given the ongoing controversy surrounding the fact that Britain has them a
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Fox is NOTORIOUS for not sticking with their series (and have been for at least 15 years now).
Agreed.
The first thing I thought of when I saw TFA was Space: Above and Beyond, from back in the mid-90s. It certainly had some weak points, but I would definitely have been interested in seeing more of it.
I think Fox just doesn't have the stomach to gamble on high-cost programmes. Sci-fi has got to be one of the most expensive genres to film (properly), and it usually takes awhile for a new series or film franchis
Re:Duh, what's new? They're Fox (Score:5, Interesting)
Fox is like Circuit City. They cut their good stuff and bring in new and inexperienced stuff because it's cheaper. Every time a show becomes more popular, with each renewal, writers, actors and others negotiate for higher pay. Fox does not look for viewer loyalty and clearly does not see this as important to their bottom line. They, instead, seem to be focused on short-term gains and returns. They are the most capitalistic of the networks and the results speak for themselves.
It doesn't matter to them that viewers who care about the long term enjoyment of a series will often avoid getting hooked into a show because it is run by Fox as there are plenty of people who are willing to watch and their numbers are sufficient and their advertisers don't seem to care either, which leads me to the next point. If you would like to teach Fox to behave and keep their best series, you have to complain to the ADVERTISERS, not to Fox. Fox will not listen to viewers -- they are short-sighted to the point that they take viewers for granted.
DVR (Score:5, Insightful)
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I can't agree with this more. My TiVo regularly records shows like the Terminator series but I'm hardly ever around to watch it on Friday nights. If it wasn't for time shifting I'd never watch that show.
Re:DVR (Score:5, Insightful)
But the networks don't really care if you watch the shows. They want you to watch the commercials. Most people who watch a show time-shifted are going to be fast-forwarding through the commercials.
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I timeshift everything, TV now works around my schedule.
As for sci-fi shows, Battlestar Galactica is on Friday night, has that stopped that show from becoming wildly popular being on a cable network? Bionic Woman was on NBC last year on a Wednesday, that got canned. I think it has less to do about the timeslot and more to do about the content. Viewers can be picky, and while Fox has made some atrocious decisions (I think Arrested Development, others think Firefly), they're generally smarter than we expec
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Can we not call it timeshift. Sounds way cooler than it really is.
I don't remember anyone saying "I'll use my VCR to timeshift all my viewing to a more convenient time".
Re:DVR (Score:4, Funny)
Be honest now, are you a sweet transvestite from Transsexual Transylvania?
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And that's maybe another reason they do it. A lot of service provided DVR's won't record shows if they appear on other time slots than their usual runs. DVR's mean that people can time shift and skip the ads (at least I do). They want people to watch the shows WITH the ads so if they change the schedule the DVR won't record and you'll be forced to watch the show on reruns.
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The problem is Fox does not even follow their own published schedule. A week or two ago I set to record a new Simpsons and instead got Nascar. The Fox plan seems to be: move it around to prevent anyone from seeing it and then don't show it at the scheduled time just in case someone is dedicated enough to try and hunt it down.
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It is funny that with all the control American television has with sports (timeouts or delaying a game for tv commercials - which really kills the flow btw). They still haven't managed to make them actually fit the events into a certain time slot.
Compare this to soccer on European television, no control over the flow of the game, yet it always ends at the same time (for regular league games anyway).
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That's due to a fundamental difference in the nature of soccer and the more popular American sports. When I watch English Premier League I know that there will probably be 10 minutes of stoppage time or so at the most. If it is a draw - that's the end.
Soccer only allows for a very limited set of conditions that actually stop the game clock. (I know it is tacked on at the end - but same difference.) American sports that are timed have a number of variables that can greatly affect the amount of ti
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I agree with this. If it weren't for my DVR, I would never have even known the new season of Sarah Connor had started. That has less to do with my viewing habits, and more to do with a crappy job of promoting the show.
Fox is generally on my shit list for this. I might have been the only person to arrange my schedule around so I could watch Drive (Nathon Fillion. Come ON!). They went on a break, and never came back. I gave serious thought to catching a plane so I could put a brick through the window of
DVR is _not_ the answer (Score:3, Informative)
Tivo is horrible at managing conflicting shows. You have to go in and manually handle every last little detail or you end up with:
Nothing... (Score:2, Informative)
Friday night slot (Score:3, Interesting)
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I sort of wish Dollhouse was on HBO or some other pay cable network where they can do a lot more. The show seems washed down from where it wants to go.
The ratings people can tell if someone is recording via VHS/DVD recorder/home made DVR? Tivo I sort of understand. It most likely phones in to the networks to say what it is recording. I didn't think the other systems did. I got to check my home DVR to see what it is doing again.
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That's not investing in a TV show. That's gambling, but with other people's jobs. Besides, how many great shows would have been snuffed with that attitude?
I am a bit ambivalent on Dollhouse. I'm looking forward to when the basic premise kicks in a bit more, with Echo's character recomposition thingamajigg. Until then, it's a monster-of-the-week type deal, which doesn't work well until people already care about the characters.
All I can say... (Score:5, Funny)
...is thank god BSG is on Sci-Fi channel and not Fox. Otherwise we'd likely have had only one season of it.
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Friday isn't all that bad (Score:4, Informative)
Friday isn't all that bad for Sci-Fi. The longest running sci-fi show in history, Stargate:SG1, spent most of it's life (if not all) on Friday nights. It's spinoff, Stargate Atlantis, also resided on Friday night as well.
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There's that Battlestar Something-or-other show that some people watch, too.
Sad to say, but if a show doesn't get ratings, it's because people aren't watching it.
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Yeah, just a hunch, but the typical Sci-Fi audience member, is not doing a whole lot on a Friday night that doesn't include painting figurines or rolling dice.
Re:Friday isn't all that bad (Score:5, Informative)
And just to clarify, that should be longest running US-based Sci-Fi show in history. Dr. Who has the world record.
Doctor Who ran for 26 years with only 1 year off (Score:3, Informative)
The original Doctor Who ran [wikipedia.org] straight for 22 seasons from 1963. That was followed by a one-year hiatus before seasons 23-26, then cancellation. Not counting the 1996 TV movie, there was a 16 year gap before the show started up again.
Nerds and DVRs (Score:2)
If sci fi shows are for nerds... Most nerds have DVRs of some sort if they happen to be out on a Friday night (yeah right).
It doesn't seem like any night is a "bad" night.. Nor, really, a "good" night.
Duh, they're CRAP... (Score:5, Insightful)
I tried watching Fringe. It was a crappy low-rent X-files ripoff with little redeaming value.
I tried watching Dollhouse. It was a crappy creepy low-rent show about mind-wiped prostitutes...
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Yes, the problem with Fringe is that it is awful. I haven't watched Dollhouse, but I haven't seen anybody raving about how awesome it is either.
Re:Duh, they're CRAP... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Duh, they're CRAP... (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, c'mon. Fringe is fun, silly fluff. Walter (Peter's crazy dad) is one of the best characters to come along in a while. People need to lighten up. You read message boards about genre shows, and everyone is so *serious* about it all, and act like they have been personally insulted if something doesn't appeal to them.
creepy low-rent show about mind-wiped prostitutes
You say that like it's a bad thing. ;-) I haven't watched it yet, so I can't say.
The fix... (Score:4, Funny)
Dollhouse? Meh (Score:5, Interesting)
Firefly's handling was a travesty. Great show that was scheduled to death.
But Dollhouse sucks on its own. It's Fantasy Island with anorexic girls.
Re: (Score:3)
Occam's effin' Razor (Score:3)
The executives at Fox are conservative morons, and they hate science, even things that pretend to be "sciency".
Re:Occam's effin' Razor (Score:5, Funny)
citation needed (Score:2)
and in the case of at least one of them, has won rave reviews
{{citation needed}}
Sci-Fi Friday (Score:2)
This stems from the fact that TV execs assume that science fiction fans are nerds with no life, and so Friday is the perfect time to play these shows.
I don't really care when the shows are on, I just download the torrent a couple days later. And, I'd never trust Fox not to cancel a good show; in fact, that goes for any tv (broadcast or cable) station. I've been burned too many times by their stupid
Sci Fi shows on Friday? (Score:4, Insightful)
It almost seems like fox thinks that nerds are more likely not to have plans on Friday night than other groups. Either that or maybe they think nerds are more likely to have DVRs? What are they thinking?
It is the cost (Score:5, Interesting)
The same thing happened in 1979 with Battlestar Galactica. The network green lighted the show. Heavily promoted it and it was doing well. The demographics were great. Show with the most college graduates watching had the under 35 crowd going for it. So why did it have to die?
In a word, production costs. An hour of Galactica could cost 1 million dollars which would bring in 2 million dollars. Thus a 1 million dollar profit. On the other hand 30 minutes of Happy Days and 30 minutes of Mork and Mindy would cost the network a total of $250,000. But it would bring in 2.5 million.
So do the math. Decent sci-fi show 1 dollar out for every dollar in. Cheap but good rated comedy gives us 2.25 dollars out for every dollar in.
The network starts looking at that time slot and sees that it can put in 2 sitcoms, or a Law and Order, or a CSI and make twice as much money. At that point the show has to die.
In the case of classic Glactica they put the show in hiatus. Then brought it back without advertising, they changed what time it was on. They changed what night it was on. The fans were to loyal. They would hunt the show out and find it each time. The ratings were not dropping fast enough. They had to convert the show into "Galictica 1981" (shudder) to finally kill the thing.
As with most business decisions. Follow the money.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The same thing happened in 1979 with Battlestar Galactica. The network green lighted the show. Heavily promoted it and it was doing well. The demographics were great. Show with the most college graduates watching had the under 35 crowd going for it. So why did it have to die?
In a word, production costs. An hour of Galactica could cost 1 million dollars which would bring in 2 million dollars. Thus a 1 million dollar profit. On the other hand 30 minutes of Happy Days and 30 minutes of Mork and Mindy would cost the network a total of $250,000. But it would bring in 2.5 million.
So do the math. Decent sci-fi show 1 dollar out for every dollar in. Cheap but good rated comedy gives us 2.25 dollars out for every dollar in.
I'm not at all disputing this, but I do want to point out something not mentioned. Keep in mind that at this time TV was very different from how it is now. Ratings were everything at this time. Yes I am quite sure that you are right that it lost out because of costs compared to comedies, but the network used "declining ratings" (without admitting that it was still winning its time slot even while going down in the ratings) to justify the decision. Why? Simple. Higher rated shows charged more for adv
Fox sucks! (Score:5, Insightful)
Yep, fox and other networks do really stupid shit such as cancel good shows and continue running garbage such as Fear Factor and American Idiot.
My wife and I enjoyed viewing the Dresden Files and Moonlight. I wasn't hip to Firefly until after it was canceled, but think it was better than most of the garbage of the airwaves that continues to run for what seems like decades.
Just the other day I was walking through a job site cafeteria and observing individuals viewing repeats of some 10 season long retarded sitcom on fox. The jokes weren't funny, and the canned laughter sounded stupid. Those doing the viewing looked like zombies focused on the green slime coming from the screen. I had the thought that the producers of most shows like this must think the viewing population are morons needing to be shown, by canned laughter, what constitutes entertainment.
If it weren't for the DVR I would sell the flat screen and get a life. Validation of the prose: "Watching TV is the same as giving up."
Fox And Jennifer Love Hewitt's Boobs (Score:4, Interesting)
I know a guy who was president of Fox TV in the 90's. I used to get the impression (listening to him) that the network was always working against itself (they had had something like 6 presidents in a row lose their jobs in brief stints). I recall talking about Jennifer Love Hewitt's failed series that was a spinoff from "Party of Five". When I asked him about show he said "They guessed her horrible. They should have put her in a tube top and forgot about it". Since then whenever I hear the expression "screw up a wet dream" I think of Fox Entertainment.
My take on the problem (Score:3, Insightful)
Our country needs to wake up and realize that relaxation and fun doesn't necessarily require us to turn off our brains.
here's the truth. (Score:5, Insightful)
Fox doesn't hate sci-fi. Fox hates paying for sci-fi. Sci-fi is expensive.
Fox used to ditch any show after a season if it wasn't an instant hit.
Then they realized they could sell DVDs of the shows at a profit.
It's better to have more profit than not. So Fox has started canceling shows after a season or two unless they're raving hits instantly.
They sell the DVDs and make a profit. It doesn't matter if we love the show. If America doesn't love it, it's gone.
The Sci-fi channel decided in the past 2 years to skip well written content in favor of B movies. They figure if it's got aliens and monsters, people will watch. Sci-fi channel thinks people are in it for the aliens and monsters, not the story or production value or plausibility.
and for all you fans of MST3K, it was not sci-fi. It was comedy. Get over yourselves.
Mistaken Identity (Score:5, Insightful)
People are under the mistaken impression that Fox is an entertainment company producing shows as a product for viewers who are their customers. Incorrect.
Fox is a media company, and their product is viewers, which they sell to advertisers, their actual customers. Apply this knowledge to "news" channels, etc... and you'll understand a lot.
That business model means that any actual quality entertainment is a fluke. Especially if it's something deemed such quality that a small demographic really enjoys it... that is never their goal. Understanding this, one can look for quality entertainment in books, or films and shows *after* they aired and were reviewed well, despite the system.
The interesting question is not "why does Fox screw up at something outside of their goals." The interesting question is "what method of funding and creating shows as quality entertainment might be sustainable as a business that we could flock to?" Distributed digital patronage or something? Maybe I should submit that as an Ask Slashdot.
Isn't is obvious (Score:4, Funny)
Anybody who is nerdy enough to write in to Slashdot bemoaning the probable demise of these shows is going to have no problem clearing up their busy Friday night social schedule in order to watch them.
TV executives & SciFi (Score:3, Insightful)
Simply, I think they don't get SciFi. The SciFi Channel, named after the genre itself ran John Edwards for months and currently devotes at least one day a week to people going around with IR cameras going "I feel a presence". What's another name for "really really bad science fiction movie"? "SciFi Channel Original Feature". I keep waiting for them to redo Night of the Lepus when they run out of types of lizards, snakes, and gothic masonry.
People whose perception of the world is filtered through a layer of ratings analysis are often not the best judge of quality scifi.
Re: (Score:2)
Not a problem. All you have to do is meet her on a train [tvbythenumbers.com].
WARNING!!! The flash (yuck!) clip has a commercial at the beginning of it AND the special effects you see were not in the show itself (though the head exploding thing should have been).
Here's the original script which was cut. (Score:3, Informative)
For some reason which has not been well explained imo, (the official FOX claim is that Joss chose to make the changes), the original episode he created was axed at the last moment and was cobbled together with new material to completely alter things and stretch the material over several episodes.
This was a pretty huge blow.
I hunted around and found a copy of the script for the original first episode, and I thought is was very strong compared to the episode which got aired. I've uploaded a copy of it here.